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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-03-03

---Logopened Fri Mar 03 00:00:08 2017
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03:40<Samu>hi
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04:31<Wolf01>o/
04:37<crem>\o
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04:46<Wolf01>Meh, some users in the forum are like my father, and I already would like to leave home...
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05:35<Samu>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=75982&p=1183536#p1183536 - just posted something explaining why running costs alone won't do it
05:35<Samu>that might demotivate SimYouLater
05:35<@peter1138>NewGRFs.
05:36<Wolf01>^
05:37<Wolf01>Also, you can almost always make an addon for a grf which only changes some values if the newgrf values don't fit your needs
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06:34<Samu>Wolf01: running cost per wagon isn't possible if the wagons used are of varied length, or i don't see what you mean
06:37<Samu>perhaps I see what u mean
06:38<Samu>yeah, looks like it's possible, but it will be even harder to reach that piece of information
06:39<Samu>click train
06:39<Samu>click details
06:39<Samu>click information
06:39<Samu>and there, each wagon would have it's name, it's value and there would be it's running cost
06:39<Samu>it's possible, just a bit harder to get to, though
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06:42<Wolf01>It's far more easy than guessing the cost of the entire consist
06:43<Wolf01>And calculating the cost of the consist from variables which mean nothing
06:43<Wolf01>You can calculate the cost of a plywood based on its length, not the cost of a car based on its length
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07:18<Samu>uh oh... actually not as easy as I first thought
07:19<Samu>it must retrieve the running cost from the vehicle itself, not the engine type
07:19<Samu>even though they're the same, they're not the same
07:19<Wolf01>Why, for the god of wolves sake, you are still trying to get a wagon running cost depending on the engine to which is attached?
07:20<Samu>GetVehicleProperty
07:21<Samu>this function really wants a running_cost_class
07:21<Samu>which I don't have
07:22<Samu>to display the running cost of a wagon that doesn't have a running_cost_class, that is on a vehicle, I really need to use GetVehicleProperty, instead of GetRunningCost
07:23<Samu>I'm screwed
07:23<Samu>unless I simulate a running_cost_class
07:23<Samu>something i've been avoiding all this time
07:25<Samu>let me look at engines.h
07:25<Samu> brb
07:26<Samu>INVALID_PRICE
07:26<Samu>bah
07:26<Samu>#define RC_S PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_STEAM
07:26<Samu>#define RC_D PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_DIESEL
07:26<Samu>#define RC_E PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_ELECTRIC
07:26<Samu>#define RC_W INVALID_PRICE
07:26<Samu>RC_W is for wagons
07:28<Samu>if I create a PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_WAGON, i bet i'll be destroying all NewGRFs
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07:28<Samu>what would be the BasePrice
07:28<Samu>heh... so screwed
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07:37<Wolf01>if (e->u.rail.running_cost_class == INVALID_PRICE) cost_factor = GetVehicleProperty(v, PROP_TRAIN_COST_FACTOR, e->u.rail.cost_factor) * something;
07:37<@peter1138>ini files
07:37<@peter1138>xmL!
07:41<Wolf01>Also, you should calculate the running costs of a wagon when starting the game and caching them
07:42<Samu>CAN'T CACHE THAT
07:42<Samu>oops caps
07:42<Samu>it must be retrieved from the vehicle itself
07:43<Wolf01>Make it possible, don't whine
07:43<Samu>a game doesn't start with vehicles already built
07:43<Samu>it must look at "your" vehicle
07:43<Wolf01>But the game starts with vehicle definitions
07:44<Samu>nars, uses a different running cost for trains that are stopped
07:44<Samu>the train must exist
07:44<Samu>be in the map
07:45<Wolf01>Wtf cares about nars, you are changing vanilla wagons
07:45<Samu>yes, but i don't want to break other things
07:45<Wolf01>If you break newgrf details it's your fault
07:48<Wolf01>Also you want to add running costs to wagons? Go to engine.h line 400 and below
07:48<Samu>i could do that, but then the cost would become a fixed value, no longer dependant on the engine
07:49<Wolf01>Still with this bad idea...
07:49<Wolf01>The cost must be fixed
07:52<Samu>SetDParam(2, GetVehicleProperty(v, PROP_TRAIN_RUNNING_COST_FACTOR, v->GetEngine()->u.rail.running_cost));
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07:53<Samu>let's see what happens
07:54<Wolf01>Sticks screwdriver in power plug: "let's see what happens"
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07:54<Samu>oopsie
07:55<Samu>i need a GetPrice too
07:55<Samu>that means, a cost_factor, oh boy, i think it's time to give up
07:55<Wolf01>Look at what you need and do a plan
07:57<Samu>SetDParam(2, GetPrice(v->GetEngine()->u.rail.running_cost_class, GetVehicleProperty(v, PROP_TRAIN_RUNNING_COST_FACTOR, v->GetEngine()->u.rail.running_cost), v->GetEngine()->GetGRF()));
07:58<Samu>rip readability
07:58<Wolf01>What if you add a prop for wagons?
07:59<Samu>also wrong, i need something else over GetPrice, i am so bad
08:03<Samu>GetDisplayRunningCost
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08:03<Samu>nevermind, i give up
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08:06<Wolf01>I changed 4 lines of code and I have running costs
08:06<Wolf01>http://imgur.com/a/Qmq3q
08:07<Samu>Wolf01: the magician
08:07<Wolf01>Maybe I even messed up grfs, but it works and it is consistent
08:09<Samu>that wasn't where I was putting the running costs
08:09<Samu>it was on vehicle detail / information tab
08:09<Wolf01>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pvn1rcd5d
08:13<Samu>heh, I really wonder what happens with a newgrf mixed up with that
08:13<Samu>probably "bad stuff"
08:13<Wolf01>Try
08:14<Samu>ok.
08:16<Wolf01>Meh, why 3 hours for a branch merge?
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08:21<Samu>Severity Code Description Project File Line Suppression State Error C2118 negative subscript openttd D:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\engine.cpp 67
08:22<Samu>can't compile what u did
08:22<Wolf01>Make a patch and compare, so you can see where the error is
08:24<Samu>retrying
08:25<Samu>brb
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08:27<Samu>nop
08:27<Samu>negative subscript
08:28<Wolf01>With grfs?
08:29<Samu>no, with compiling
08:30<Wolf01>I think you missed something, like a comma or even an enum item
08:31<Samu>no, i just copy pasted your diff
08:31<Samu>then applied
08:31<Samu>to trunk
08:31<Samu>doesn't work
08:31<Samu>assert_compile(lengthof(_price_base_specs) == PR_END);
08:31<Samu>this is where it errors
08:32<Wolf01>Then it didn't apply correctly, also I didn't made it against trunk, it was only to show you the changes
08:33<Samu>Severity Code Description Project File Line Suppression State Error (active) the size of an array must be greater than zero openttd d:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\table\pricebase.h 85
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08:33<Samu>Severity Code Description Project File Line Suppression State Error C2118 negative subscript openttd d:\openttd\trunk\src\table\pricebase.h 85
08:37<Samu>lengthof(_price_base_specs) == PR_END);
08:37<Samu>i'm getting a 71 == 72
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08:37<Wolf01>It mean you miss a PR_DOMETHING
08:37<Wolf01>s/D/S
08:38<Wolf01>Or even more than 1
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08:42<Samu>ah, tortoise svn removed some line
08:42<Samu>about ships
08:42<Samu>damn tortoise
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08:43<Samu>i got it
08:43<Samu>let's try again
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08:44<Samu> ///< PR_RUNNING_SHIP {1000000, PCAT_CON.... was on the same line
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08:44<Samu>dunno why tortoise patched it like that
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08:45<Samu>didn't register the end of line
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08:46<Samu>it werks!
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09:01<Samu>intersting, nothing bad is happening
09:02<Samu>any newgrf that happens to have invalid_price before, is now displaying a running cost
09:02<Samu>£0
09:03<Samu>which is... "okay"
09:05<Samu>newgrfs had the option to display either £0 or just not displaying it at all
09:05<Samu>not displaying it at all = INVALID_PRICE
09:05<Samu>must investigate this further, b rb
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09:31<supermop>yo
09:33<Samu>i swear i've seen newgrfs with running costs of £0 being displayed before
09:33<Samu>grr
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10:56<Samu>is this good coding etiquete
10:56<Samu>If (abc) do {
10:56<Samu>code here
10:56<Samu>} while (whtever);
10:59<Samu>if (unc_len != 0) do { bla; } while(bleh);
11:07<Wolf01>if (x) do {} while(); => while() {}
11:07<Wolf01>*while(x && other while condition)
11:19<Samu>got it
11:19<Samu>also got a math problem
11:20<Samu>1000/4 = 250
11:20<Samu>250/4 = 62.5
11:21<Samu>hmmm it's wrong that i divide it a second time
11:21<Samu>trying to get the individual running cost of a wagon is tough
11:21<Samu>in the vehicle detail information tab
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11:22<Samu>openttd doesn't do it
11:22<Samu>it does for the entire train, but not for individual parts
11:22<supermop>can't decide if i want to just make rough tram all brown dirt and not bother changing ground sprites
11:23<supermop>rough tram is for andy things to drive on, so i'll wait to ask him
11:24<supermop>how fast should a mine cart go?
11:24<supermop>100 mph?
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11:37<Wolf01><supermop> how fast should a mine cart go? <- google says 25kmh
11:38<Wolf01>Minecraft ones go up 28.8kmh
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11:48<Samu>working with integer math is so limited
11:49<Samu>@calc 75600 >> 15
11:49<@DorpsGek>Samu: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
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11:49<Samu>2
11:49<Samu>rip decimals
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11:53<@Alberth>o/
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11:57<Wolf01>o/
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12:26<Samu>BaseCosts Mod 5.0 cannot modify the running costs of wagons
12:27<Samu>unless.... oh nevermind, it can
12:28<Samu>if the wagons actually have a running cost class, it can
12:29<Samu>i'm treating them as Steam
12:29<Samu>PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_STEAM
12:30<Wolf01>You should add PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_WAGON and support it on grfs
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13:04<zuzak>Hi there, is there a way to mirror the content server locally? We're wanting to host a LAN party, but our network has a restrictive firewall
13:05<zuzak>or can players download content from the game-server directly?
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13:05<Samu>a
13:05<Samu>unc_cost += GetPrice(PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_STEAM, cost_factor, e->GetGRF()) / _price[PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_STEAM];
13:05<Samu>there's so much code that seems redundant, but it actually matters, just to get a price
13:06<Samu>i can now get the running cost of an individual wagon
13:07<Samu>make it go through the newgrf filter, like nars do for stopped vehicles
13:07<Samu>make it go through another one which is basecosts mod which can adjust running costs
13:08<Samu>i got a value of 63000 going around 2 filters, only to return 63000
13:09<Samu>newgrfs could change it, but at least I'm happy to keep this functionality
13:13<Samu>there's still something not quite right, grrr
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13:18<@Alberth>zuzak: simplest is to download the required grfs beforehand, and distribute them locally
13:18<@Rubidium>zuzak: I assume that restrictive firewall also implies not being able to change the DNS resolution in the network, so making a mirror would be pointless. And no, the game servers will not serve the content
13:18<@Alberth>you can just drop the files into the right directory of openttd, and it will be found
13:18<@Rubidium>having said that, it's technically achievable with some effort
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13:55<Samu>hmm Wolf01, after checking out how NewGRFs are dealing with running costs for wagons right now, adding a PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_WAGON wouldn't work as one would expect
13:55<Samu>they already set their wagons to one of the other 3
13:56<Samu>diesel, steam or electric
13:56<Samu>if then you change the cost multiplier on a hipotetically basecost mod that does support it, it wouldn't change the wagon running costs
14:06<Wolf01>As I said before, leave existing grfs working as they do
14:06<Wolf01>New grfs use the new feature
14:07<Wolf01>If you need to change old grfs you make another grf which overrides their feature in the same exact way they did
14:07<Wolf01>Maybe is even possible to change the class to "wagon" instead of the other 3
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14:48<Samu>im gonna need help
14:48<Samu>how do i make a 2-pass function
14:48<Wolf01>I need sleep
14:48<Samu>t.t
14:48<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/paxapdugj
14:48<Samu>i got this
14:49<Samu>lines 30 to 53 is the 2nd pass
14:49<Samu>lines 14 to 28 is the 1st pass
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14:52<Wolf01>Quak
14:53<Samu>as you see, i'm calculating the parts individually now
14:54<Samu>for that, I need to know in advance the running cost of the parts that assigned a running cost (1st pass)
15:00<frosch123>poor guy, mailing openttd.org about not being able to login to tt-forums.net using their nice.org credentials
15:00<frosch123>hoi
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15:07<@Alberth>o/
15:10<Samu>anyone can help me?
15:13<supermop_>i can't find any good gpl NG tracks
15:14<frosch123>did you not find any gpl ng tracks, or did yout not find and good ng tracks?
15:15<frosch123>s/and/any/
15:18<supermop_>well no tram tracks that look what i want
15:19<frosch123>one fish two fish red fish blue fish
15:19<frosch123>weird that starcraft told me about english children's books
15:20<supermop_>for ng i dont know any that look like what i want
15:21<supermop_>tiny tracks that look like regular tracks
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>is that the book which results in the craziest tongue twisters?
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>supermop_: i think i usually used the tram/lightrail tracks grf
15:24<supermop_>Eddi|zuHause: does it have ties/sleepers?
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>i really don't remember
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15:31<frosch123>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=75992 <- please vote for a definitive result :)
15:35<Samu>only 2 submissions? why not wait for more?
15:36<SpComb>why does that post render super-wide on mobile
15:37<supermop_>less than a month left to vote etc
15:38<Wolf01>Uhm, I'm playing with unspooled, I find a bit interesting that you can build roads of different kind but not the stations/depots, but you can convert them after and still have access to all vehicles
15:38<supermop_>huh
15:38<supermop_>how do you mean
15:39<Wolf01>I mean that my patch might not work at all
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15:39<supermop_>i don't intend any weird depot or station behavior
15:40<Wolf01>http://imgur.com/a/AoZns
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15:41<SpComb>wait, people still use pre-signals
15:41<Wolf01>Seem so
15:42<SpComb>also, what about tue 4k view :(
15:42<supermop_>wait you can't build depots for each road type?
15:42<Wolf01>Only for the first one
15:43<frosch123>Wolf01: strings swapped in the grf?
15:44<supermop_>now i am really confused
15:44<Wolf01>I think it's the ICanHazInfrastructure() function I was working to
15:46<Wolf01>But it should have disabled the toolbars too
15:47<Wolf01>Also one should not be allowed to convert stations and depots to a roadtype which has no available vehicles, for consistency
15:47<Wolf01>But then you can't make roadtypes without vehicles
15:48<Wolf01>Branch needs a lot of work
15:49<SpComb>someone should implement infrastructure sharing for 1.7, and then it woulf be totally awesome
15:50<SpComb>I tried playing a solo game of OpenTTD... got boring after a 4h or so
15:50<supermop_>SpComb: lot of work to fit into 30 days
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15:53<SpComb>spent over and hour fiddling around with NewGRFs and then played for a couple hours longer :(
15:56<Wolf01>OTTD will get really boring if you don't have a plan
15:56<SpComb>heh... do the modern patch-packs still include my silly Town Cargo Generation Factor patch
15:56<supermop_>everytime i play i find something i want to change or add
15:56<supermop_>so at least i am adding new things now
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15:57<andythenorth>o/
15:58<supermop_>termite seem to me the only one on devzone
15:58<supermop_>for some reason i had thought pikka made some too
15:58<SpComb>whaat, does JGR's patchpack actually include IS with a modern OpenTTD?
16:00<supermop_>whenever i play an infrastructure sharing game, my company goes bankrupt
16:00<supermop_>because i dont end up getting the delivery of any of the most profitable passengers
16:01<SpComb>wow, and JGR's pp is against the latest svn head
16:02<@Alberth>o/ andy
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16:03<andythenorth>JGR appears to be pretty clued in on actual development
16:03<andythenorth>afaict
16:03<@planetmaker>o/
16:03<andythenorth>hi planetmaker
16:04<andythenorth>Alberth also
16:04<frosch123>hoi pm
16:04<supermop_>planetmaker: would an articulated trolleybus or tram be against the spirit of ogfx+?
16:04<frosch123>can you close https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=75752 , eventually people will post in both topics, and then it gets confusing
16:04<frosch123>supermop_: ogfx+ has articulated buses
16:05<frosch123>and trams
16:05<frosch123>and trucks
16:05<supermop_>surely it does not
16:06<supermop_>hmm termite NG still 2x the size of tramtracks
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16:08<andythenorth>supermop_: termite NG needs redrawing
16:08<andythenorth>it’s not NG enough
16:08<supermop_>i shouldn't have spoken up
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16:08*andythenorth too much to-do list
16:09<frosch123>hmm, what did i confuse ogfx+rv with?
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16:10<supermop_>frosch123: egrvts?
16:12<supermop_>andythenorth: for rough, slow mineral tramway, ballast? dirt? sleepers?
16:13<Wolf01>o/ andy
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16:16<andythenorth>brown cinder dirt
16:16<andythenorth>no sleepers
16:18<supermop_>need 3 visually distinct, with best being a nice new light rail with concrete sleeper slab track
16:18<supermop_>grass between the tracks
16:18<supermop_>?
16:21<SpComb>how does JGR's infra sharing work with cargodist? can pax transfer between different companies?
16:22<supermop_>SpComb: of course
16:23<supermop_>but as with the infrastructure sharing patch in general there is no resolution to how to share payments
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16:23<supermop_>so only the company making final delivery makes any money
16:24<SpComb>last MP game we played ended up with me sending all the other players money so that they would keep playing and not give up or go bankrupt
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16:24<supermop_>so certain types of large rail networks will always fail without manual transfers of money
16:24<Wolf01>That's why you should be paid at any leg
16:25<supermop_>there is no way to share the passenger fare, nor a way to set a contract for payment to use track or provide feeder service
16:26<Wolf01>Mmmh, I'm making big money with 9 trucks
16:26<supermop_>Wolf01: yeah, but whoever wrote the IS patch never implemented that or solved the free money for endless circular routes problem
16:27<SpComb>some financial imbalances are fine when playing a peaceful co-op
16:27<SpComb>as long as it's not completely broken... but not getting any transfer payments does sound a bit problematic
16:27<supermop_>not really fine for vanilla trunk though
16:27<Wolf01>Also endless circular routes are solvable by making the cargo following the cdist graph, if you don't follow it the payment drops towards 0 really fast
16:28<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not 100% sure cargodist actually manages to prevent cargo travelling in circles
16:28<Eddi|zuHause>especially on congested networks you have weird effects
16:30<SpComb>supermop_: well... that's a choice of how complete you want features to be before merging, vs taking something that works and fixing it up
16:30<SpComb>ofc you do want to avoid fundamental desogn conflicts
16:31<SpComb>need to give JGRs pp a try... cargodist + IS sounds like it would be an interesting multiplayer game
16:31<SpComb>lets each company bootstrap itself, and then later interact in meaningful ways
16:31<supermop_>Wolf01: if the only route from M to N goes "M, L, K, J ... C, B, A, Z, Y, X ... Q, P, O, N"
16:32<supermop_>then cdist wont know that any route M->N direct exists, and will reward the path that goes to opposite ends of the earth
16:32<Wolf01>If you take a year to deliver cargo, you won't get pais much
16:32<Wolf01>*paid
16:33<Wolf01>For other cases, airplanes
16:33<supermop_>i think a solution exists, just haven't seen many explored in the IS discussion
16:34<Wolf01>Also the total amount should be based both on leg station distance from destination and start-destination bird fly distance
16:34<andythenorth>why is Infrastructure Sharing?
16:35<supermop_>andythenorth: so we can have different colors
16:35<andythenorth>it’s bollocks
16:35<andythenorth>it was implemented in Railroad Tycoon 3, and it was bollocks there to
16:35<andythenorth>too *
16:35<Wolf01>Assign player different colors in the same coop company and you solve it
16:35<supermop_>that's the only reason i can tell to use IS and not just co-op on the same company
16:35*andythenorth hasn’t played IS game, so is talking out of his arse
16:36<andythenorth>but it’s one of the ‘must must must have’ features that get mentioned
16:36<supermop_>Wolf01: i would welcome patch for colors by groups etc
16:36<andythenorth>I have never ever played a game where I wished for it
16:36<SpComb>co-op isn't necessarily better... early game is very slow, and people have vastly differing styles for railways in particular
16:37<supermop_>separate companies only makes sense if there is some gameplay angle for money differences between companies
16:37<andythenorth>still, trackage rights are super-realism, eh :P
16:37<supermop_>so unless IS addresses that there is not really a gameplay reason to use IS instead of coop
16:37<Wolf01>More I play with unspooled, more I want to add new flags to roadtypes
16:38<supermop_>Wolf01: thats the idea of making a proof of concept grf
16:38<supermop_>to see how the concept we have actually works
16:38<Wolf01>frosch123 will kill me :D
16:39<andythenorth>does L33-35 resolve to a simpler sum? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/templates/produce_secondary.pypnml#L33
16:39<andythenorth>it’s all over the same divisor?
16:40<andythenorth>maths such :P
16:40<supermop_>i immediately found myself wanting custom sidewalks per roadtype
16:40<Wolf01>Btw, current ponies: tramway which doesn't allow road at all, tramway which only allows road crossing and not same roadbits, priority for vehicle merging on intersections (for different roadtypes)
16:41<Wolf01>The last one is useful when you have a caterpillar trying to merge just before your shiny new 150kph bus
16:43<supermop_>haha
16:43<supermop_>id say road which allows no tramway is also important for highway
16:44<Samu>what does this mean? Converts a const Vehicle to const SpecializedVehicle with type checking.
16:44<supermop_>no idea
16:44<Samu>return (const T *)v;
16:44<Samu>what is a SpecializedVehicle?
16:44<__ln__>eww, explicit cast
16:44<Samu>okay, i better expose my issue
16:45<supermop_>also modify TE by roadtype?
16:45<Samu>i got a train that consists of an engine and a wagon
16:45<Wolf01>Also a flag to forbit towns to grow some roadtypes, you don't want plenty of intersections in the highway passing through a city
16:45<supermop_>regular RV has worse TE on dirt, 4wd RV has less worse TE
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16:46<Wolf01>And a bit of blending through roadtypes, if possible
16:47<supermop_>i guess RV sets can be hardcoded to switch TE based on current roadtype
16:47<Samu>i want to retrieve the running cost of each individual part of the consist
16:47<supermop_>but a roadtype flag for traction coefficient would be more universal
16:47<Samu>but I'm not sure how to do it
16:47<supermop_>default at 1, can set to 0.1 - 1.0
16:48<Samu>want to retrieve it in real-time, to get the current value
16:48<Wolf01>GetPrice(...)?
16:48<supermop_>then RV can have a flag to reduce the effect of this if they are tracked or 4wd or whatever
16:48<Samu>no, bah i'm not making myself clear
16:49<Wolf01>Nice idea supermop_
16:49<Wolf01>Caterpillars should have max TE no matter the roadtype
16:49<supermop_>then my subaru imprezas can still run fast on dirt while bus and trucks struggle
16:50<Samu>i wanna display under vehicle details, info tab, the running cost, for each individual part of the train
16:50<supermop_>maybe can abuse so cable hauled trams or funiculars then have 1/0 TE
16:50<supermop_>as they never need to worry about wheel traction
16:51<Wolf01>Meh, 6 years and 12 trucks I can already repay the loan
16:51<supermop_>Wolf01: dirt too cheap?
16:52<Wolf01>Nah
16:52<Wolf01>Maybe too fast
16:52<supermop_>hmm
16:52<Samu>when listing each part, it appears that the wagons have been detached from all other parts, it's no longer part of a consist, it's only self
16:53<supermop_>id like to allow at least certain vehicles to go sort of fast on dirt, but maybe now it is too similar to gravel
16:53<Wolf01>Also early vehicles are too slow to get malus from travelling on dirt/gravel
16:54<supermop_>i envisioned players would only really build dirt in 1700s with horse wagons, and that most would use gravel for their cheap roads in modern era
16:54<Wolf01>Nerf them a bit, like 30 and 45
16:54<supermop_>Wolf01: makes sense
16:54<Samu>I'm too slow today, it's hard to explain
16:54<Samu>sorry
16:55<supermop_>there is no way to really model the other malus effects of unpaved road, like hazard in wet weather, wear and tear on vehicle
16:55<Wolf01>I started in 1950, I also built an asphalt road between cities, but I connected all the factories with dirt
16:55<supermop_>highway too expensive?
16:55<Wolf01>No, no need to
16:55<Wolf01>I'll build it late
16:56<Wolf01>*later
16:56<supermop_>also cannot model that dirt is cheap to maintain if only light vehicles drive on it
16:56<supermop_>as tno way to count how many tons pass over road bit per year
16:57<Wolf01>That old rusty track patch could have been really useful hjere
16:57<supermop_>could set RVs to have higher running cost on dirt, but that needs every grf to have same idea of what is dirt
16:58<supermop_>other idea: buses cannot go on dirt at all, but same problem as above?
16:58<supermop_>eg make dirt more like off-road
17:02<andythenorth>I find I edit out a lot of my ideas
17:02<andythenorth>:)
17:03<Wolf01>Ha, added a single tram now, income has boosted
17:03*andythenorth bed
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17:04<supermop_>on rough tramway?
17:04<Wolf01>No, basic electric tramway
17:05<supermop_>hmm should make that more expensive
17:05<supermop_>also come up with a better name for it
17:05<Wolf01>I think a way to partially solve the problem of roads which don't allow crossing is to introduce vehicle waypoints in the same fashion of toll points, the highway ends at waypoints which have a nice graphic and you continue with road
17:06<Wolf01>Too bad OTTD lets you manage every aspect of the transport with the same company, you can't pay yourself :P
17:07<Wolf01>I think infra-sharing was bor for this, one will focus on infrastructure, others on vehicles
17:07<Wolf01>*born
17:08<zuzak>hm, is there a way to make the show-reserved-paths-of-trains more visible? the black's hard to see. but I figure someone would've made it by now, and I can't find anything on the content server
17:09<supermop_>zuzak: not that i know of
17:09<supermop_>i think it is something that newgrf can change
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17:21<supermop_>drawing tram sleepers
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17:25<Wolf01>Another thing I just stumbled on, the possibility to disable some bridges for a roadtype
17:26<Wolf01>It would need some mapping
17:27<Wolf01>Or we just let it as is and is player choice to not build highway with wooden bridges
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17:37<Samu>HALP! http://imgur.com/a/sMiR8
17:38<Samu>i'm trying to display running cost per piece, but uh... it's doing something weird
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17:53<supermop_>Wolf01: id rather have different bridge types for different types
17:54<supermop_>in the spirit of the TTO monorail
17:54<Wolf01>Even better
17:54<supermop_>even if it is still a global limit of 15
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17:56<supermop_>other or additionally: a same bridge type has different sprites based on type
17:56<Wolf01>Still the problem of wooden highway :P
17:56<supermop_>wood train bridge and wood road bridge might look different
17:57<supermop_>flag to disable wood would be helpful
17:57<supermop_>adding ties:
17:57<supermop_>http://imgur.com/a/0fmbk
17:58<supermop_>they don't show up on the brown dirt tho
17:59<Wolf01>Better than nothing
18:00<supermop_>so maybe rough gets brown dirt, basic gets wood ties on gravel, and modern gets concrete ties
18:00<supermop_>brb
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18:08<Samu>http://i.imgur.com/tpgrEBS.png
18:08<Samu>HALP
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18:10<Samu>i got a terrible programming issue
18:10<Supercheese>Is that a terrible issue with programming, or an issue with terrible programming? ;)
18:11<Samu>probably both
18:11<Supercheese>Heh
18:12<Samu>the way openttd processes the code
18:13<Samu>it first gets the engine at the front, sends it to the GetRunningCost and comes up with the result
18:13<Samu>then gets the next unit after the front, and discards the first one
18:14<Samu>now it's a 3-unit train
18:14<Samu>sends it to the GetRunningCost and comes up with the result
18:14<Samu>then repeat, 2-unit train, sent to runningcost, 1-unit, running cost
18:15<Samu>so basically, there's 4 trains
18:15<Samu>I dunno how to solve this
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18:27<Wolf01>Samu https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/ao1eg8x_460sv.mp4
18:30<Samu>..
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18:37<Samu>hmm I think i understand what's going on
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18:53<Samu>GetCargoSummaryOfArticulatedVehicle
18:53<Samu>I need something similar to this, but for RunningCost
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19:04<Wolf01>You were looking for "I need to do something similar to..."
19:09<Wolf01>Also bed
19:09<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Sat Mar 04 00:00:09 2017