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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-03-08

---Logopened Wed Mar 08 00:00:15 2017
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03:26-!-ZirconiumX is "Dan Ravensloft" on #openttd
03:38<ZirconiumX>I'm attempting to build OpenTTD on a raspberry pi. This ought to be an interesting exercise in waiting.
03:38<ZirconiumX>(dedicated server)
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03:54<Samu>ST2, your server kicked me for some weird reasons
03:56<Samu>it decided to change my name "gato preto Xarick" to "Otken" upon join
03:57<Samu>I was never Otken, never used that name
04:08<crem>Maybe you just don't remember.
04:08<Samu>I am 100% certain I never used "Otken", the server decided to rename me to that
04:10<Samu>I've seen someone named Otken yesterday in the server, but that's it
04:11<Samu>it wrongly renamed me to Otken is the issue hre
04:12<crem>I still think it did that rightfully.
04:16<Samu>do you work on btpro, crem?
04:17<Samu>i never used "Otken", that's one thing I can garantee
04:17<Samu>the server messed up somehow
04:17<Samu>don't know if you have access to logs, to see what happened
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04:24<crem>That sounds unplausible. :)
04:25<Samu>whatever, doesn't matter
04:26<Samu>the second time I joined with "gato preto Xarick" it didn't rename me
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06:36<Samu>i'm a terrible bit wise mather
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07:30<Samu>I did it, yay, i had to store both
07:30<Samu>_transparency_opt and _transparency_lock
07:36<Wolf01> eh
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07:48<Samu>there's a difference between 0 and NULL, let's hope it accepts NULL
07:50<Samu>0 - nothing is transparent, NULL - I didn't even start yet
07:50<__ln__>what language are you talking aboot?
07:50<Samu>bitwise stuff
07:50<Samu>bit language
07:51<Wolf01>Harrrr, let's the infamous pirate DeMorgan haunt you
07:52<Samu>just did it for building a dock
07:52<Samu>it werks!
07:52<Samu>now, for all other cases... ugh... have to identify such situations 1 by 1
07:54<Samu>any improvement?
08:25<Wolf01>Are you ready for this?
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08:45<__ln__>they probably didn't mean it that way, and the tweet has been removed now... but pretty amazing
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10:18<Wolf01>Meh... the remove overlay button from a plugin disappeared from firefox :|
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10:23<supermop_>ok so have a few isr looking depots to add to docklands, now need to draw a few variants of the chips looking ones
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10:42<Samu>darn window classes window by id, widgets and nested crap
10:42<Samu>hard to follow
10:55<Samu>why is it so hard to find the cases where windowses are focused
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10:57<Samu>Alberth: are you the windows/widget stuff in openttd expert? :o
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11:01<Samu>looks like i got this
11:06<@Alberth>I wrote some of the stuff
11:06<@Alberth>around 8 years ago
11:10<Samu>nice :)
11:11<Samu>HandlePlacePushButton is probably what I'm looking for
11:11<Samu>but i can't generalize
11:20<@Alberth>search through all files for the function definition, when you found it, you found it!
11:21<@Alberth>otherwise, I have absolutely no idea what that function does
11:21<@Alberth>probably somerhing with push buttons
11:30<Samu>i'm working with the dock toolbar gui at the moment, trying to implement this "smart" transparency
11:31<Samu>ship depot button is behaving different than all the others...
11:33<Samu>i click on it, transparency is set, if i click it again, it closes, but the transparency doesn't revert
11:33<Samu>seems like there is a closing method that wasn't taken care
11:34<Samu>but it cant be
11:34<Samu>it's being closed
11:36<Samu>it was probably my error, trying again, brb
11:36<Samu>nop, still behaves wrong, grrr
11:39<Samu>ah, got it
11:39<Samu>it was missing in the code, i had to write a bit of it
11:40<Samu>dock toolbar is finished :)
11:40<Samu>let me copy paste patch
11:40<Samu>the work so far
11:45<supermop_>what do depots have to do with transparency?
11:46<Samu>it's temporary
11:46<@Alberth>or why does it gets NULL assigned?
11:47<Samu>because i can modify the transparency settings while I'm building
11:47<Samu>and to better adapt between the old, the new and the modified
11:48<@Alberth>I am not even sure we talk about the same code :p
11:50<Samu>line 145 and 153
11:51<Samu>if i start building, i start the temporary transparency which makes those variables non-null anymore
11:51<Samu>if, in the middle of build, i toggle some transparency setting, lines 145 and 153 will act upon it
11:52<Wolf01>Oh, windows updates
11:52<Samu>if using NULL is wrong, then i dunno what to do
11:53<Samu>it can't be 0
11:53<Samu>0 means that nothing is transparent, which can certainly be a temporary value
11:58<Samu>do you think it could be 0? now that i'm looking at it more closely... perhaps it can? hmm
11:59<Samu>how would i detect that I have started the temporary transparency?
12:02<@Alberth>NULL is likely interpreted as 0
12:02<@Alberth>you can of course always add another variable to denote whether you started or not
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12:07-!-ZirconiumX is "Dan Ravensloft" on #openttd
12:08<ZirconiumX>In case anybody was morbidly curious, the RPi build of OpenTTD took about 3 hours.
12:10<Wolf01>But the most important question is: does it work well as dedicated server?
12:15<Samu>oh, NULL is 0 ? t.t
12:16<Samu>NULL is 0 indeed
12:22<Samu>i got this bugged yet, after all
12:22<Samu>thx for noticing
12:25<ZirconiumX>Wolf01: Well, I naively built with LTO, and my pi ran out of memory.
12:25<ZirconiumX>So now I gotta repeat the process without LTO
12:25<ZirconiumX>And hope it links
12:28<Samu>it can't be 0 t.t, i need another variable
12:32<supermop_>Is there any reason for someone to ever want to change depot styles to have fewer styles?
12:33<supermop_>like if i have 8 waytypes with 8 types of depot, would someone want a param to make them all the same style of depot?
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12:35<@Alberth>it's perhaps simpler to automagically build the correct type
12:37<supermop_>Alberth: but will someone out there want the non corect type?
12:37<@Alberth>I have no doubt that person exists
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12:37<supermop_>and is it worth it to have a param
12:38<@Alberth>for every button in openttd, there is at least one person that wanrts an extra setting for it
12:39<@Alberth>I would say, the grf decides. Some authors believe that the user should be in control, other authors believe they know best
12:39<@Alberth>both are right
12:40<@Alberth>for me personally, I probably will not even bother playing with road types or tram types, I am not a modeller person
12:41<@Alberth>people that care for such things may also prefer authentic depots
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12:41<supermop_>Alberth: some people may want them visually distinct to tell what is ROAD and what is ELRD, some people might want them to all match?
12:42<supermop_>NRT allows depots based on year too
12:49<supermop_>i feel like the people who want to model things in detail though would want to be able to build certain styles regardless of year
12:50<@Alberth>every player wants something else :p
12:51<@Alberth>ie you can't make everyone happy
12:51<@Alberth>thus everyone uses a different subset of grfs, which are useful to him/her
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13:11<ZirconiumX>Considering trying to build a NoAI.
13:11<ZirconiumX>Another one, anyway
13:12<LordAro>ZirconiumX: do it :>
13:12<LordAro>frosch123: have a patch, btw
13:12<ZirconiumX>LordAro: if you'll blow the dust off AroAI
13:12<ZirconiumX>Or write your own
13:13<ZirconiumX>*write a new one
13:13<Samu>i hate asserts
13:13<Samu>can't even use them like I want
13:13<LordAro>ZirconiumX: heh
13:13<LordAro>i'd probably start from scratch if i did
13:14<LordAro>i dare not look at the code, it'll be awful
13:14<LordAro>Samu: how do you want to use them?
13:14<frosch123>LordAro: what does it do?
13:14<@planetmaker>good evening :)
13:14<LordAro>frosch123: fixes a warning with clang(3.9)
13:14<@planetmaker>LordAro, ;)
13:15<LordAro>planetmaker: ;)
13:15<LordAro>you have no idea how often i have to remind people of that
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13:15<@planetmaker>oh, by the hour, I'd recon :P
13:16<ZirconiumX>Since you're all devs, what's the formula for profit?
13:16<Samu>window class management is a mess for me
13:16<ZirconiumX>It's more cargo over more distance, faster right? Any of these makes you more money
13:16<Samu>window class, or window id, :(
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13:16<Samu>don't even know what is what
13:17<frosch123>why does usa switch to dst on the 12th this year? isn't it usually the first sunday in march?
13:17<@planetmaker>samu the difference is like family name vs. given name
13:19<@Alberth>hi hi
13:19<ZirconiumX>Hi Alberth
13:20<Samu>i don't understand widgets, windows class, windows id, parent, child
13:20<ZirconiumX>Also, LordAro, I thought you'd disabled +g
13:20<Samu>and the 999 ways to close them
13:21<@Alberth>that many? I thought there was only one, ie "delete w"
13:22<Samu>some of them don't close because it's a parent or a child or a related
13:22<LordAro>ZirconiumX: oh, apparently i haven't
13:22<@Alberth>window class is like a family of windows, ie all train lists, or all depot windows
13:23<@Alberth>window id is a unique identifier within the class, so you can point to a specific depot window
13:23<Samu>i can't use the asserts to track down if it was started, because of the way these windows are managed
13:23<Samu>if the transparency was started
13:24<@Alberth>construction toolbars often have child windows. Press the 'station' button, and a child 'station picker window' opens
13:24<Samu>they don't all follow the same rules
13:24<@Alberth>press the 'depot' or 'bridge' window and the depot build or bridge build window opens
13:25<@Alberth>a toolbar only allows one child window to open
13:25<@Alberth>so if you open one, all others get closed, usually
13:25<@Alberth>there might be a few exceptions here
13:25<@Alberth>object window comes to mind
13:25<Samu>when i click build dock, then i click build ship depot, i get an assert... :(
13:26<Samu>click build dock - starts transparency
13:26<Samu>click ship depot - starts transparency
13:26<Samu>the asserts catches that i'm starting it again
13:27<@Alberth>that seems like a good idea, one open child window from the ship build toolbar
13:28<@Alberth>so likely you should not just start transparency, but instead first check if the window is already open, and if not, then open it
13:28<+glx>when are you stopping transparency ?
13:29<@Alberth>glx: you skipped "why do you start transparency while building a dock" :)
13:29<+glx>that too :)
13:30<+glx>well I guess it helps to see where to place it
13:30<Samu>too confusing
13:31<Samu>how to check if the window is already open
13:31<+glx>I think there's a function to search window class
13:31<@Alberth>something FindWindow ... ByClass or so
13:31<@Alberth>or ById
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13:50<Samu>nevermind, i'm stupid
13:50<Samu>i was really starting it twice
13:51<Samu>yeah, the assert doesn't complain anymore
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13:53<Samu> line 113 and 52, was starting it twice
13:53<Samu>my fault
13:54<Samu>removed the one at line 113
13:54<Samu>no more asserts
13:56<ZirconiumX>Ah, the joys of AI development
13:58<ZirconiumX>Is there a list of used four character GetShortName() strings?
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13:59<frosch123>there uses to be one
14:00<ZirconiumX>Oh joy. Oh well
14:01<ZirconiumX>ZXAI it is
14:01<ZirconiumX>>last updated 2011-06-21
14:02<ZirconiumX>It runs at least
14:02<frosch123>aparently there is also a wiki page
14:02<@planetmaker>there really hasn't been much AI development in the last years
14:02<frosch123>the forum topic ends with the list moved to the wiki there
14:02<frosch123>but, well, i guess bananas also has a list
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14:29<ZirconiumX>Okay, NoAI devs, who feels like helping me debug some code?
14:30<ZirconiumX>Why does this never trigger?
14:30*ZirconiumX says, as an event triggers.
14:31<frosch123>there is an irc-bridge event
14:32<ZirconiumX>How do I convert an AIEvent to string for debugging?
14:33<frosch123>maybe it's possible to query the classname
14:33<frosch123>but i do no know squirrel well enough
14:34<ZirconiumX>Since "Don't know how to handle a 3" is not very helpful and may change.
14:34<ZirconiumX>Hi andythenorth
14:35<supermop__>andythenorth: a new road grf has appeared
14:35<andythenorth>eh another NRT grf
14:36<Supercheese>could make another one with insulting names, call it RudeTypes
14:36<supermop__>we are trying to goad you in to rereleasing tonka trucks
14:36<Samu>when to stop transparency asserts all over the place, t.t
14:36<supermop__>do you have tonka as a brand of big toy mining trucks in UK?
14:36<LordAro>ZirconiumX: i recommend stealing from other AIs :p
14:37<ZirconiumX>Call me an ascetic, but I was planning to MIT license it
14:37<ZirconiumX>So stealing is an issue
14:39<supermop__>how does the tonka wikipedia page not have a single photo of the archetypal tonka truck
14:40<supermop__>mine was like this:
14:43<andythenorth>I had generic brand, not tonka
14:43<Samu>oh boy, i can't do this by the means of FindWindow
14:43<andythenorth>there was a watercooler moment where they ran an actual mining truck off a quarry face
14:43<andythenorth>alongside a tonka toy
14:43<andythenorth>one survived, one didn’t :P
14:44<Samu>i got to check which the cursor is active
14:44<Samu>cursor mode, or whatever, hmmm grrr
14:44<ZirconiumX>If AISubsidy.GetSourceType() returns SPT_TOWN, can I assume AISubsidy.GetDestinationType() will also return SPT_TOWN?
14:45<ZirconiumX>And vice versa for SPT_INDUSTRY
14:45<ZirconiumX>...No, that wouldn't work for goods, would it?
14:46<frosch123>gamescripts can spawn all kind of subsidies
14:46<andythenorth>which seemed insane at the time, but eh, it’s a 25 year old life expired mining truck
14:46<frosch123>pax from town to oilrig is fine
14:47<ZirconiumX>Thanks, frosch
14:47<frosch123>maybe we should make an oilrig focused gamescript
14:47<frosch123>oilrigs have all kind of weirdnesses
14:47<andythenorth>don’t they just :P
14:47<andythenorth>I am supposed to refactor this tonight
14:48<ZirconiumX>I have a switch statement, inside a switch statement, inside a while loop, inside a while loop.
14:48<andythenorth>to work like the rest of FIRS :P
14:48<ZirconiumX>I should probably put that into a function.
14:50<Supercheese>Refactor? Meh, I'd rather play Factorio once more time.... Refactorio
14:50<ZirconiumX>Factorio is good
14:51<supermop__>i feel like they had that ad here too
14:55<andythenorth>maybe I should revisit farm vehicles :P
14:55<andythenorth>they never panned out in HEQS though
14:55<andythenorth>tractors have very little to offer the game, unless I OP them somehow
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14:56<Supercheese>Give them a nice cargo decay bonus to offset the extreme slowness?
14:57<supermop__>they are to look cute driving around
14:58<ZirconiumX>Probably for the same reason there are car GRFs
14:58<supermop__>they are overpowered in cuteness
15:01<andythenorth>anyway good to see more grfs
15:01<andythenorth>usually I am the consumer of the spec, not part of the creation
15:02<Supercheese>other side of the aisle, eh?
15:03<andythenorth>frosch123: I am trying to think of a funny name for that GS…Rig King doesn’t work :P
15:04<andythenorth>Run Rigg
15:04<andythenorth>nah, I have nothing
15:05<frosch123>andythenorth: rigs of rods?
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15:10<ZirconiumX>Squirrel produces such wonderful errors.
15:10<ZirconiumX>"Expression expected"
15:11<andythenorth>provide an expression :)
15:12<ZirconiumX>My brace counting skills are good enough to notice there's nothing missing
15:13<Samu>I'm back to HandlePlacePushButton, apparently this is the holy grail function I need to work with, not windowses
15:13<@Alberth>I tpyically rely on the editor for counting brackets :)
15:14<@planetmaker>and 2nd order I rely on proper indentation :)
15:15<ZirconiumX>And my indentation is also working
15:15<ZirconiumX>I should prbably at least make the indentation consistent
15:16<supermop__>hmm where should depot graphic switch go... switch what file the spriteset references, or switch which spriteset the graphics black asks for?
15:16<@Alberth>consistent indentation is quite useful in the long run
15:17<ZirconiumX>Like so.
15:17<ZirconiumX>Well, I found the missing bracket
15:17<Samu>damn it, it's not the holy grail function, I'm so bad at this
15:18<@Alberth>isn't the holy grail non-reachable by definition?
15:19<@Alberth>no worries, I also always start at a wrong end :)
15:22<andythenorth>I usually start at the right end, then discover I have the wrong goal :P
15:24<@Alberth>haha :)
15:26<@Alberth>I tried to decipher your iron horse makefile, but it's so horrible, it may be quicker to ask you what it should do :)
15:26<@Alberth>somewhen next weekend?
15:27<@Alberth>mercurial info program may need a bit more extension, but we'll see
15:27<andythenorth>ok :)
15:28<andythenorth>weekends can be quite chores or family oriented :)
15:28*andythenorth will see how it goes
15:28<andythenorth>‘what should it do’ is mostly set some shell parameters and then call some python scripts
15:28<andythenorth>then zip the result
15:29<andythenorth>preferably cross platform :P
15:30<frosch123>andythenorth: btw. do you have the password to upload bananas stuff with the "openttdcoop" user?
15:30<frosch123>cool, noone bothered to upload the past 2 released of ogfx :p
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15:34<andythenorth>jenkins pipeline -> bananas
15:34<andythenorth>if the tests greenlight, just ship it
15:35<frosch123>some projects have a "make bananas" target
15:37<andythenorth>could have jenkins call musa if the build works :P
15:37<andythenorth>something seems odd about the makefile doing it, dunno why
15:39<frosch123>so you can generated the text entries :p
15:40<@Alberth>if you want the scripts I wrote to make a new makefile, that would be an option too
15:40<andythenorth>auto-generating makefile? o_O
15:41<@Alberth>not that automatic :)
15:41<frosch123>i think in ogfx i added a generated makefile
15:41<andythenorth>can make write the makefile as it goes? o_O
15:41<frosch123>it is used to make the version detection work with both a hg checkout and a bundle
15:41<@Alberth>pure andy magic
15:42<frosch123>it is generated, if hg is present, otherwise it is used from the bundle
15:43<frosch123>anyway, make checks whether any of the read Makefiles are targets, and then tries to rebuild them. if they change it, make starts over from the beginning
15:43<frosch123>not sure whether you can make loops with that
15:49<@Alberth>doit: $(MAKE) doit :p
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16:06<ZirconiumX>I return, with 100% more BNC
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16:26<andythenorth>supermop: ROAD, HAUL….FARM? :P
16:26<andythenorth>“cannot be built in towns”
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17:49<Samu>gonna give up on this automated transparency thing, I can't do it
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18:11<Samu>how many owners can there be on your roads
18:11<supermop_>one road owner
18:11<supermop_>tram can be owned by someone different though
18:12<Samu>i'd like road pieces to have different owners
18:12<Samu>1 owner per piece
18:12<supermop_>tile wont fit it per the NRT spec
18:13<supermop_>that is actually what prevented anyone getting anywhere on roadtypes for a decade
18:13<supermop_>how to handle the shared ownership of the tile
18:14<supermop_>because tram, and possibly a rail crossing can also have different owners from the road
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>how is that a problem?
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>road tiles can have 3 owners
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>one for the road, one for the tram, and one for the rail or station
18:16<Samu>but that is for the entire road, not each individual piece of road
18:16<Samu>or the entire tram
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18:18<supermop_>there needed to be a compromise on how many new bits of the road tile would go toward what i assume, and different types or owners per road quarter were assumed to be a reasonable thing to compromise
18:22<Samu>i guess the same could be done with trains
18:22<Samu>erm, rails*
18:22<Samu>6 rail tracks per tile? 6 owners
18:23<Samu>4 road pieces + 4 tram pieces? 8 owners
18:25<Samu>+1 rail piece when doing level crossing = 9 owners, yay
18:27<Samu>oh, wait, not needed 9 owners when there's a level crissing
18:27<Samu>2 road pices + 2 tram pieces + 1 rail = 5 owners
18:30<supermop_>currently you cant even have two types of rail for parallel _ or | track
18:32<Eddi|zuHause>if you want different owners for each roadbit, that would mean you potentially need to store 8 owners
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>but i still don't see why that would stop roadtypes from being implemented
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>it's completely separate
18:39<Samu>40 bits needed to store 8 owners
18:40<Samu>there's 17 bits free... rip 8 owners idea
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19:14<Samu>there is a bug in acceleration with trains
19:14<Samu>they go faster on bridges
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19:15<Samu>ST2: were you aware of this?
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---Logclosed Thu Mar 09 00:00:16 2017