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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-03-09

---Logopened Thu Mar 09 00:00:16 2017
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06:04<ZirconiumX>Well I can now build roads and depots.
06:04<ZirconiumX>Bus routes are going to be a pain.
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07:49<Wolf01>o/
07:49<ZirconiumX>Hi Wolf
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09:27<supermop>yo
09:27<Wolf01>o/
09:28<ZirconiumX>Hello
09:30<crem>Hello/
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09:33<supermop>i must be doing it wrong, because adding all these parameters and switches for depot styles in docklands has like doubled the length of the code
09:34<Wolf01>IMO you should just do what please yourself
09:36<Wolf01>Most of the flags won't be used by 99% of the players, just the one which selects CHIPS or ISR could be needed
09:36<supermop>you are probably right
09:37<supermop>i mean clearly all 4 road types using the same depot is kind of lame, but just simply providing a different depot with each one would still give most users all the flexibility they need
09:41<dihedral>oi
09:44<supermop>i adding spool style wires to docklands is going to add even more lines
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10:03<supermop_>i wont add a parameter for wires though
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10:16<@Alberth>hi hi
10:16<Wolf01>Hi
10:17<crem>Hi.
10:29<supermop_>hi Alberth
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11:29<Samu>damn widgets
11:45<ZirconiumX>NoAI folks: Does AIDepotList.AIDepotList() return a list of tile IDs, or something else?
11:46<@Alberth>https://noai.openttd.org/api/ docs know
11:46<ZirconiumX>I've read the docs
11:46<ZirconiumX>"Creates a list of the locations of the depots (and hangars) of which you are the owner."
11:46<ZirconiumX>Are these locations tile IDs, or something else?
11:47<@Alberth>TileIndex yes
11:47<ZirconiumX>Thank you.
11:47<@Alberth>that's the only form of locations in the program :)
11:47<ZirconiumX>Noted.
11:50<ZirconiumX>So I could check if a tile is within a town by using AITown.IsWithinTownInfluence, right?
11:51<ZirconiumX>(In case you're wondering, I'm trying to make sure I don't build tons of depots in the same town)
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11:56<Samu>I'm starting to understand how widgets are dealt with
11:57<ZirconiumX>That's a good start
11:57<Samu>how to throw commands around, apparently the holy grail function is OnInvalidateData
11:58<Samu>then i got 1 place, only 1 place that Stops the Transparency
11:58<Samu>much better than what I was doing yesterday
12:18<@Alberth>"town influence " is bigger than purely town (ie houses), but it looks like a correct function
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12:19<@Alberth>o/
12:22<frosch123>moi
12:31<Wolf01>Quak
12:37<supermop_>hi frosch123
12:38<ZirconiumX>Hi frosch123
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13:27<andythenorth>o/
13:28<Wolf01>o/
13:29<ZirconiumX>o/ andythenorth
13:29<andythenorth>so…touch bar support in openttd? o_O
13:29<andythenorth>https://developer.apple.com/macos/touch-bar/
13:29<ZirconiumX>Sure, go ahead and write it
13:32<Wolf01>OTTD buttons are ugly and not in line with Apple standards
13:37<frosch123>LordAro: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pwcgpradb
13:37<andythenorth>Wolf01: I’d just do words :P
13:37<LordAro>well that's inconvenient
13:38<frosch123>what was the actual clang warning?
13:39<supermop_>andythenorth: then i want surface pen support
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13:40<supermop_>must have offended him
13:40<Wolf01>I already play with pen :P
13:42<LordAro>frosch123: hang on, lemme recompile
13:43<LordAro>/home/lordaro/dev/openttd/src/core/smallstack_type.hpp:221:27: warning: instantiation of variable 'SmallStack<unsigned short, unsigned short, 65535, 8, 65533>::_pool' required here, but no
13:43<LordAro> definition is available [-Wundefined-var-template]
13:44<supermop_> i need more practice then
13:44<LordAro>frosch123: maybe my extra line needs to be in the cpp file?
13:44<LordAro>odd that it works for me though
13:45<frosch123>diffferent compilers :)
13:46<LordAro>evidently :p
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13:46*LordAro tries gcc
13:47<LordAro>also, 4.9? ancient :p
13:48<frosch123>stable :)
13:49<frosch123>ottd compile farm may be way more ancient
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13:51<LordAro>ah, same error with gcc 6.3
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>anyone remember that time when we supported gcc 2.ancient?
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13:55<LordAro>frosch123: that said, i'm not entirely sure how aircraft_cmd & station have got caught up in this
13:57<frosch123>i think they are just the first one
13:57<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: your error kinda sounds like a wrong include
13:57<frosch123>SmallStack is only used in typedef StationIDStack, which is defined in station_type.h
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: might be a problem with your library, not the compiler
13:59<ZirconiumX>Is there any way to speed up the frequency of subsidies?
13:59<ZirconiumX>Other than hitting fast forward
13:59<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: library? what?
13:59<Eddi|zuHause>glibc
13:59<Eddi|zuHause>or something
13:59<ZirconiumX>LordAro: Clang uses libc++, right?
13:59<ZirconiumX>Rather than libstdc++
13:59<LordAro>ZirconiumX: not by default
14:00<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: not sure how a template instatiation has anything to do with the library
14:00<Eddi|zuHause>i've no idea either
14:01<LordAro>but anyway, there's no differences between them unless being explicitly told
14:03<ZirconiumX>Bugs are so much fun
14:03<ZirconiumX>https://puu.sh/uByLd/5825e8c206.png
14:03<ZirconiumX>(It's facing the road)
14:09<Samu>i got a problem yet with one of the stop transparency
14:09<Samu>oninvalidate is being called twice
14:12<Samu>SetObjectToPlace is calling w->OnPlaceObjectAbort();
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14:20<LordAro>frosch123: i've got no idea what's going on :/
14:20<frosch123>i think the typedef is interpreted as a template specialisation
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14:20<frosch123>but well, i guess we keep the clang warnings :)
14:21<LordAro>:(
14:21<Samu>i think i figured it out, just checking
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14:22<Samu>nop, i didn't
14:22<Samu>:(
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14:41<andythenorth>supermop_: I have a force-touch trackpad also :P
14:42<andythenorth>supermop even
14:42<supermop>either works
14:42<andythenorth>so if I press softly, I want narrow gauge tracks
14:42<andythenorth>and if I press harder, I get wider tracks :P
14:42<andythenorth>patch for that?
14:44<supermop>what if you press too hard? canal?
14:45<andythenorth>maglev :P
14:45<ZirconiumX>Canal would be funny
14:48<Eddi|zuHause>wetrail?
14:50<andythenorth>ah the enduring appeal of wetrail :P
14:50<andythenorth>such trains :P
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14:56<Samu>Alberth: i need help, can't do this alone, i'm almost there, but not quite
14:56<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p5qn7lvhm
14:56<Samu>problem is, i'm stopping transparency twice
14:57<Samu>there are some OnInvalidateData being called multiple times, i dunno what to do
15:01<Samu>one example is when I head to max vehicle ships
15:01<andythenorth>is cat?
15:02<supermop>i can't decide if i prefer the coal mine colored coalmine building of firs, or it's cc variant in chips
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>two of them. one pretty wet...
15:02<supermop>i mean obviously i prefer the mine variant, but doesn't do much for showing who owns it
15:03<Samu>if i change the number of ships, regardless if to 0 or not, and i have any of the widget lowered, Stop Transparency can be called twice :(
15:05<andythenorth>supermop: flip a coin
15:05<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: try the microwave
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: neither is this maniac mansion, nor a hamster
15:06<supermop>andythenorth: unlikely. i already have the tan mine one modified with big door and correct shading for \
15:06<supermop>in case you want one for mine layout vareity
15:07<andythenorth>picture?
15:07<andythenorth>also have you got a repo yet? o_O
15:14<supermop>no, not bothering yet with an version control, pnml, or other best practices
15:14<supermop>pic in a second
15:17<supermop>http://imgur.com/a/nA8zr
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>is that related to pig in a blanket?
15:18<supermop>road hog in a mine
15:20<supermop>anyway, thats for docklands, so it's intended to look more like a building that might be on the grounds of a mine complex than a shop that fixes trucks
15:20<supermop>want 1-2 more firs style buildings
15:20<supermop>might use the open sided iron roofed shed that lives at some industries
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>no, i meant "pic in a second" -> "pig in a blanket"
15:24<Samu>well, i can't do this
15:24<Samu>t.t
15:24<Samu>apparently i only shifted the problem
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15:40<andythenorth>computer migration time :P
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>you pick it up and put it somewhere else?
15:40<andythenorth>yes
15:40<andythenorth>I pick up the old one, move it to one side
15:41<andythenorth>put the new one in its place :P
15:41<Eddi|zuHause>i was thinking of getting a new one with ryzen
15:42<andythenorth>usually I migrate everything, $HOME, the apps, the ports tree etc, with rsync equivalent
15:42<andythenorth>after > 15 years of that, I’m doing this one from scratch :P
15:42<andythenorth>time for ‘fresh'
15:42<andythenorth>regret will follow :P
15:43<supermop>andythenorth: nothing from my vaio is on the surface
15:43<andythenorth>maybe I should use Ansible, and make my system trivially redeployable
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>i tried a fresh install a while ago. didn't really help
15:43<supermop>the stuff i thought i'd want is on a usb drive, but never got around to using it
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>i mean fresh os on the same computer
15:44<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: what didn’t it help? o_O
15:44<andythenorth>oh that
15:44<andythenorth>I think my current $HOME dates back to OS X public beta :P
15:45<andythenorth>2001 or so
15:45<Eddi|zuHause>just all the annoying bugs were replaced by other annoying bugs
15:45<supermop>fresh new bugs?
15:45<andythenorth>I am mostly hoping that python 2.7 will build :P
15:45<andythenorth>it’s inconvenient that it won't
15:45<andythenorth>why replacing my entire OS and $HOME should fix setuptools failures, I don’t know
15:46<andythenorth>but eh, apparently that’s the required solution
15:51<andythenorth>unrelated
15:51<andythenorth>are python globals a thing, or best just avoided?
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15:52<Eddi|zuHause>global variables should be avoided
15:53<Eddi|zuHause>python or not...
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15:53<andythenorth>that rule has never failed me yet
15:53<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: have you ever encountered the problems with globals?
15:54<andythenorth>or is the rule enough?
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>i've had problems where i needed to turn globals into other things
15:55<Eddi|zuHause>when you want to reuse a thing in some more varying contexts
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16:00<andythenorth>in current context, my problem is globals
16:00<andythenorth>so replacing them with globals is some fallacy
16:00<andythenorth>probably has a name and a wikipedia page that fallacy
16:02<frosch123>call them singletons instead of globals
16:02<frosch123>that sounds way more fancy
16:04<andythenorth>fair
16:04<andythenorth>I could declare them as classes with just one value
16:05<andythenorth>and some horrible way to return that
16:08<supermop>i am just i am doing these build date dependent depots wrong , but
16:09<supermop>if the last date range ends at 2099 (nrt specs say this is as far as range for build date variable goes)
16:10<supermop>and i build a depot in 2100, what does it look like?
16:10<andythenorth>well, new computer can’t use full animation in ottd either
16:10*andythenorth unsurprised
16:10<frosch123>supermop: why 2099?
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: there should be a "long date" property
16:11<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: there is only a long date variable
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>then there probably isn't a 2100 limit
16:13<supermop>there isn't a mention in your NRT page,
16:13<frosch123>where does it say 2099 or 2100?
16:13<supermop>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Stations#Station_variables
16:14<frosch123>that is stations, not depots
16:14<supermop>that isnt nrt but i assumed it would work the same way
16:14<supermop>well regardless, is there a way i can leave the range in the switch open ended?
16:15<andythenorth>I use max game date for that
16:15<supermop>or what is the biggest year
16:15<frosch123>supermop: 0xFFFFFFFF is the max value
16:15<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/road-hog/repository/entry/src/global_constants.py#L119
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16:22<supermop>date(0000,01,01)..date(5000001,01,01): chips_road_depot_4;
16:22<supermop>thats all of time for openttd right?
16:23<frosch123>yeah, but you can also just write "0" for the first date
16:24<frosch123>also i am not sure whether we start in year 0 or year 1
16:25<frosch123>we start at 0
16:25<frosch123>though that is no valid gregorian date iirc
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>there exists a "backdated gregorian calendar with year 0"
16:35<supermop>can Openttd have different calendars alike currencies?
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>the problem is that the silly monks in the 4th century didn't know a 0
16:36<andythenorth>openttd handles the year that gained or lost a day?
16:36*andythenorth has vague recollection :P
16:38<Supercheese>monks were probably too focused on beer to bother with silly zeroes
16:40<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: the problem is that 1 CE is precreeded by 1 BCE
16:40<frosch123>there is no 0 CE or 0 BCE
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: yes, but that would only become relevant if we had negative dates
16:42<Wolf01>Remove the "date" and use "played years" starting from 0 and just the season :P
16:42<Wolf01>And break all the introduction dates :P
16:45<andythenorth>+1
16:45<andythenorth>and choose a tech ‘era'
16:45<Wolf01>+1
16:45<andythenorth>and then let GS choose to progress eras
16:45<andythenorth>and offer no other mechanic
16:45<andythenorth>so people have to write GS
16:46<andythenorth>all vehicles for the era are available at start of era, with random offsets
16:46<andythenorth>no other progression except the random
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17:33<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: negative dates would only really change dates beyond 2500000. and offset all other dates by 1 year if you want to "fix" the year 0
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18:42<__ln__>well done Wolf01 and andy, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/03/09/lego-reports-highest-revenue-85-year-history/
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19:02<Wolf01>:D
19:02<Wolf01>'night btw
19:03<Wolf01>I'll be at Model Expo Italy until monday ;) (lego.. lego everywhere)
19:03<Wolf01>'night
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21:12<supermop>hmm apparently my win 10 command prompt cant cd\ to my usb stick
21:13<supermop>so much for carrying my newgrf development workspace back and forth seamlessly
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---Logclosed Fri Mar 10 00:00:18 2017