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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-03-15

---Logopened Wed Mar 15 00:00:25 2017
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04:18<Samu>hi
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04:32<Samu>who's a professional english speaker?
04:32<Samu>STR_CONFIG_SETTING_PLANE_BREAKDOWN_DAY_HELPTEXT :If vehicle breakdowns are enabled, this sets how long it takes for an aircraft to forcedly have its chances to breakdown increased during the current flight, if it has yet to breakdown. When set to disabled, the breakdown is not enforced. Also note that Plane Speed Factor is taken into account which means that a lower factor results in an earlier breakdown enforcement
04:33<Samu>good or bad english? any improvement?
04:39<Sova>just add a comma after Also and you're good
04:40<Samu>changed this bit "When set to 0, it becomes disabled and the breakdown chances are not enforced."
04:41<Samu>like this? "Also, note that Plane Speed Factor... "
04:42<Sova>yes
04:42<Samu>are not increased* typo
04:43<Samu>oki, thx
04:44<Samu>i'm about to finish this, :)
04:44<Sova>When set to 0, it becomes disabled and breakdown chances are not increased. I'd remove "the" from the sentence but both are correct
04:44<Samu>oki
04:47<Samu> if (Chance16I(1, 25, r) || _settings_game.vehicle.plane_breakdown_day && v->type == VEH_AIRCRAFT && !(v->vehstatus & VS_AIRCRAFT_BROKEN) && Aircraft::From(v)->flight_counter > _settings_game.vehicle.plane_breakdown_day * GetAircraftMaxSpeedCommonMultiple() / GetAircraftMaxSpeedFactor()) { chance += 25; }
04:48<Samu>long line :(
04:49<Samu>>= is better, brb
04:51<Samu>now i need to store this in the vehicle save load
04:51<Samu>first time I'm adding a config item of this kind
05:04<@peter1138>Samu, for that text: TL;DR.
05:05<@peter1138>(it's far too long)
05:12<Samu> if (IsSavegameVersionBefore(197)) { Aircraft *a; FOR_ALL_AIRCRAFT(a) { a->flight_counter = 0; } }
05:13<Samu> if (IsSavegameVersionBefore(197)) { Aircraft *a; FOR_ALL_AIRCRAFT(a) { a->flight_counter = 0; } _settings_game.vehicle.plane_breakdown_day = 0; }
05:13<Samu>how can i make that text shorter?
05:14<Samu>it's an expert setting though
05:14<Samu>i placed it in that category
05:16<Samu>broken savegame, invalid chunk size, oh yeh... looks like i need help
05:16<Samu>where in the vehicle_sl.cpp do i edit this? or is it in afterload.cpp?
05:23<Samu>AH, think i fixed
05:23<Samu>it's not SLE_VAR, but SLE_CONDVAR
05:23<Samu>must test
05:26<Samu>http://imgur.com/pXFAS01
05:26<Samu>text too long?
05:27<Samu>but it still fits in there :(
05:35<@peter1138>Even the setting name is too long!
05:37<Samu>how do i shorten it? halp
05:41<Samu>what do you suggest
05:41<crem>Flight days before more likely breakdown.
05:41<crem>Flight days before increasing breakdowns.
05:42<crem>Flight days before increased breakdown rate.
05:44<crem>Shouldn't that "days" depend on airplane range though?
05:45<@peter1138>Nah, Samu wants to create something conflicting with newgrf specs.
05:45<Samu>nop, range is different
05:45<Samu>works differently
05:47<Samu>range just doesn't let the aircraft takeoff at all
05:47<Samu>this one will takeoff regardless of range
05:48<Samu>they can both work together anyway, i don't think it conflicts with it
05:50<Samu>it can still not takeoff if the range says so and this setting is enabled
05:54<Samu>"breakdown rate" is shorter than "chances to breakdown", ty crem
05:57<Samu>STR_CONFIG_SETTING_PLANE_BREAKDOWN_DAY_HELPTEXT :If vehicle breakdowns are enabled, this sets how long it takes for an aircraft to forcedly have its breakdown rate increased during the current flight, if it has yet to breakdown. When set to 0, it becomes disabled and breakdown rate won't increase. Also, note that plane speed factor is taken into account - a lower factor results in earlier breakdowns
05:57<Samu>slightly shorter text
05:59<Samu>i come to find that 100 days might be too generous
06:00<Samu>it would only make a difference on maps higher than 512x512
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06:00<Samu>that is, if the aircraft is moving at 947 km/h or such
06:14<Samu>hum... i think i need to throw another variable in
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06:15<Wolf01>o/
06:15<Samu>fast planes benefit more than slow planes with this
06:15<Samu>hi
06:15<Samu>hey Wolf01 apparently you're right
06:15<Samu>i was being shortsighted
06:15<Wolf01>"apparently"
06:17<Samu>need some kind of "normalizer" that accounts for plane speed
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06:23<Samu>it wold make it look more like "range before breakdown"
06:23<Samu>but still not related with the other range
06:23<Samu>the newgrf spec one
06:27<Wolf01>http://brickset.com/article/27049/forthcoming-events I'm starting to think we are overdoing...
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06:57<@peter1138>And you're going to them all? :D
06:57<@peter1138>13 Mar
06:57<@peter1138>Uh huh
06:58<Wolf01>It's a bit difficult, some dates overlap ;)
07:01<@peter1138>https://i.imgur.com/ViGbaji.gifv
07:01<Wolf01>Yeah, it seem to be viral now...
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07:50<Samu>wow, 1 aircraft is 3 vehicles
07:50<Samu>so obscure
07:57<Samu>looks like i'm gonna attempt another patch, this one will keep track of distance travelled, instead of time travelled
08:04<Samu>it will be a bit harder to calculate
08:04<Samu>what's wrong with turkey and netherlands
08:07<__ln__>the netherlandsians are nazis, obviously. that's what's wrong.
08:08<__ln__>welcome to the EU, turkey
08:14<Sacro>https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/5yzbr4/turkeys_erdogan_calls_on_international/deu38ca/?context=3
08:17<Sacro>Basically Erdogan made it illegal to campaign outside Turkey
08:17<Sacro>And then sent people to NL to campaign
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10:07<supermop>yo
10:08<Wolf01>o/
10:10<Wolf01>Oh... 1.7 seem to have broken fullscreen
10:12<@peter1138>Works for me™
10:13<crem>Doesn't work fullscreen on round monitor.
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10:17<Wolf01>Btw, works for me too, it might be a strange config
10:45<supermop>i feel like we need more nrt RVs right now than any subtle changes i may make to the actual roads?
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10:54<Samu>what's a tilehash? why does it have 16384 possible locations :(
10:57<Samu>when the aircraft is flying, it's location is tile 0 ? i am confused
11:09<Samu>there's some coordinates outside the map borders
11:09<Samu>they ruin my counting :(
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11:13<@Alberth>o/
11:14<crem>\o
11:16<Samu>nevermind, i figured out an alternative
11:17<Wolf01>Samu, the real aircraft is the shadow, like some pokémon
11:18<Samu>for too high speeds, my alternative might be a failure
11:19<Samu>the aircraft can go outside the map, over there, it gets some weird funky coordinates
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12:37<Samu>STR_CONFIG_SETTING_PLANE_BREAKDOWN_DIST_HELPTEXT :If vehicle breakdowns are enabled, this sets how far it takes for an aircraft to forcedly have its breakdown rate increased during the current flight, if it has yet to breakdown. When set to 0, it becomes disabled and breakdown rate won't increase
12:37<Samu>less complexity
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12:51<supermop>why does my boss tell clients etimates that are always at least $30k too low
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12:53<Samu>peter1138: help me a bit, is this dealing the overflow
12:53<Samu>v->flight_counter = ClampU(v->flight_counter + 1, 0, UINT16_MAX);
12:54<Samu>flight_counter is a uint16
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13:03<@Alberth>Samu: won't work, UINT16_MAX + 1 cannot be computed
13:03<@Alberth>or it can, but doesn't fit in uint16
13:08<@Alberth>it does something like uint16 tmp = v->flight_counter + 1; v->flight_counter = (tmp > UINT16_MAX) ? UINT16_MAX : tmp;
13:08<@Alberth>but you cannot assign tmp a valid value if v->flight_counter is already UINT16_MAX
13:10<@Alberth>or, alternatively, tmp > UINT16_MAX is never true, since tmp cannot have a value above its maximum value
13:13<LordAro>i tried to fix my smallstack warning again
13:13<LordAro>naturally, my minimal example displays no warnings or errors
13:15<@Alberth>:)
13:15<@Alberth>it's below "minimal" thus :p
13:21<LordAro>indeed
13:21*LordAro copy & pastes again
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13:33<Samu>what can i do to avoid the value going over 65535
13:33<Samu>if it is 65536, move down to 65535
13:34<Samu>strange, just tested, it worked :(
13:35<Samu>65535 + 1 = 65536, clamp reduced it to 65535
13:35<Samu>did i miss something?
13:35<ST2>http://futurama.wikia.com/wiki/Francis_X._Clampazzo <<-- he likes to clamp stuff ^^
13:36<@Alberth>test beforehand, whether adding will not overflow
13:37<Samu>what exactly is overflow?
13:37<Samu>starting all over?
13:37<Wolf01>Holy shit
13:37<@Alberth>value = (value < UNIT16_MAX - 1) ? (value + 1) : UINT16_MAX;
13:37<Samu>65535 + 1 = 0?
13:37<@Alberth>overflow is going over the upper limit
13:40<Samu>v->flight_counter = v->flight_counter < UINT16_MAX - 1 ? v->flight_counter + 1 : UINT16_MAX;
13:40<Wolf01>Also quak and o/
13:40<ZirconiumX>Samu: Say you have a three digit decimal number. If you have 999, add 1, but keep the result in three digits
13:41<ZirconiumX>You end up with 000.
13:41<ZirconiumX>That's overflow.
13:41<ZirconiumX>Hi Wolf01
13:41<Wolf01>If you won't end up with -998
13:41<frosch123>moi
13:43*LordAro ponders just seeing what happens if he replaces SmallStack with std::stack
13:44<ZirconiumX>The universe implodes
13:45<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ph2fsvnnz
13:45<Samu>it's done, i guess
13:45<frosch123>iirc smallstack involved some smartpointer stuff
13:46<frosch123>but maybe it was only about rvalue references
13:46<LordAro>that is what the very large comment on it says
13:46<frosch123>what, documentation? :p
13:46<LordAro>ikr
13:47<LordAro>http://docs.openttd.org/classSmallStack.html
13:48<Samu>TileVirtXY is weird
13:48<Samu>when the aircraft is outside the map, the x and y go up like 2 million
13:49<Samu>i was trying to get the difference between the old and new position, but i can't do it because of that
13:50<LordAro>i fear it's entirely cargodist based
13:50<LordAro>so probably isn't so old it doesn't have a use anymore :p
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13:50<Samu>my workaround was to add +1 to the distance, if old_pos is different than new_pos
13:51<Samu>but then i'm afraid that very fast planes might have incorrectly calculated distance
13:51<Samu>tried yate haugan with speed factor of 1 / 1
13:52<Samu>it's still accurate
13:52<Samu>but i dunno about higher speeds than that plane
13:52<Samu>newgrf planes or such
13:52<ZirconiumX>Something something logic planes
13:55<frosch123>as long you are not talking about ega color bit planes
13:56<LordAro>fonsinchen: oh hey, you're on here. i wonder if you still understand SmallStack..
13:56<@Alberth>hola and o/
13:57<frosch123>LordAro: it's a tree
13:57<LordAro>frosch123: i mean, enough to fix the clang warning i've got :)
13:58<LordAro>i mean, i "understand" it
13:58<LordAro>but not enough to fix it :p
13:58<frosch123>every instance references a branch of the tree, which looks like a stack when looknig towards the root
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14:00<LordAro>it's more understanding how the templates are interacting, rather than the code itself
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14:10<frosch123>well, do you have a specific question then?
14:11<LordAro>"can you fix the warning i get"
14:11<LordAro>:p
14:12<LordAro>well, "can you fix the warning with clang3.9 pls"
14:14<frosch123>do you have it pasted somewhere?
14:14<frosch123>i am not smatz, so i do not have a collection of compilers installed
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14:19<Samu>i found a bug. when starting a multiplayer game from a savegame, i'm put into company 1
14:19<Samu>it happened that this company 1 was an AI :(
14:19<Samu>i shouldn't be in it
14:20<Samu>i moved myself from company 1 to spectator
14:21<Samu>now i can't rejoin company 1, it's an AI
14:21<Samu>just start as spectator when loading a save for a multiplayer game
14:22<Samu>can someone fix it ? :p
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14:32<Wolf01>o/
14:32<andythenorth>lo
14:32<LordAro>frosch123: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p2qoiab63
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14:37<frosch123>isn't that the same as from the other day?
14:38<andythenorth>one day, FIRS will be done :PO
14:39<LordAro>frosch123: yup
14:41<Samu>who's a professional pathfinder expert here?
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14:41<Samu>i fail to understand how aystar thing works
14:42<Samu>who worked on river generation during world generation?
14:43<Supercheese>A* pathfinding?
14:43<Samu>yes, river generator uses aystar
14:44<Supercheese>it's a popular algorithm
14:44<Supercheese>check full commit logs I guess to find the specific implementor in OTTD
14:45<Samu>i wanted to make the river generator more friendly to lock
14:45<Samu>locks - the water structure
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14:49<andythenorth>would anyone bravely look at the FIRS makefile for me / with me? o_O
14:49<andythenorth>I want to remove a step
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>yapf was implemented by KUDr afair
14:49<Samu>FlowRiver and FlowsDown
14:49<Samu>these 2 functions work in tandem
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>he was a total template guru
14:50<Samu>flowriver marks tiles
14:51<Samu>but i don't understand what happens when this marked tiles are sent to the aystar
14:56<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/Makefile.in
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: you want to add a penalty for when a curve is adjacent to a slope
14:57<andythenorth>currently python generates firs.pnml, and the makefile runs CPP to produce firs.nml
14:57<andythenorth>the python should write firs.nml directly (I can do that bit)
14:57<andythenorth>but I can’t figure out how to update the makefile
14:57<@Alberth>ok, current tip?
14:57<andythenorth>yes
14:58<andythenorth>you might conclude that we just port the Iron Horse stuff over
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14:58<andythenorth>I would not be sad about that :)
14:58<andythenorth>it might uncover any missing cases that need handled
14:59<@Alberth>looks too complicated :p
15:00<@Alberth>copy bin/*
15:00<@Alberth>copy horse Makefile to Makefile.new, or rename firs makefile* to makefile_old* and then copy horse makefile
15:01<@Alberth>or trust vcs, and rm makefiles :p
15:03<@Alberth>make clean ; V_= _V= make helps a lot in deriving what it currently does
15:04<@Alberth>^ running that, if you demolished stuff already
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>why is there both _V and V_?
15:05<@Alberth>one of them is valid, but I don't know which one
15:05*andythenorth will port the IH stuff
15:05<andythenorth>it will lose the html_docs target but eh
15:05<@Alberth>can be added later
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the basic logic of makefile is pretty simple. you give it a "target" (output file), tell it its "dependencies" (input files) and a "recipe" (command to generate the output file from the input file)
15:07<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I know :)
15:07<andythenorth>but we’re not so much in ‘basic’ here
15:07<@Alberth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pr5hp9udo this is what the above 'make' generated
15:08<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: ever looked at the makefiles ?
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>the rule to make firs.nml from firs.pnml will show up in one of two ways: explicit "firs.nml" or as a pattern "%.nml"
15:08<@Alberth>I am not talking about that rule :)
15:09<andythenorth>it’s all parameterised
15:09<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: not in the past ~5 years
15:10<@Alberth>not to mention it contains all kinds of generic stuff not used by firs
15:10<@Alberth>with overrides in other makefiles etc
15:10<andythenorth>ah
15:10<andythenorth>Alberth: FIRS doesn’t have a single entry point ‘build_firs.py’ script
15:11<andythenorth>unlike iron horse
15:11<andythenorth>I think those entry point scripts are kind of bad
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: yes, but what i said basically applied when i customised the makefile for CETS
15:11<@Alberth>oh, it has a number of steps, right?
15:12<andythenorth>yes
15:13<andythenorth>render_nml.py, render_docs.py
15:13<andythenorth>just those 2 for FIRS I think
15:13<andythenorth>I could write a python entry script, but eh
15:14<@Alberth>nah
15:14<andythenorth>it’s nice to have ‘make docs’ as a target, for one thing
15:14<andythenorth>and for another, it’s a pretty pointless python script
15:15<@Alberth>what does "python src/render_nml.py" do ?
15:16<frosch123>peter1138: btw. if you care about the appdata.xml stuff, it goes into media/openttd.appdata.xml.in
15:16<@Alberth>and "python src/render_docs.py" and "utils.py" ?
15:16<frosch123>peter1138: the installation stuff should in theory already be present
15:21<andythenorth>Alberth: src/render_nml.py creates generated/firs.nml
15:21<andythenorth>and src/render_docs.py creates /docs
15:22<frosch123>chips doesn't have translations, right?
15:22*andythenorth checks
15:22<andythenorth>nope, no lang
15:22<andythenorth>no old nfo translations either afaict
15:23<andythenorth>there is what looks like the start of translations
15:23<andythenorth>sprites/nfo/lang
15:31<@Alberth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/px77m7hgg start
15:32<@Alberth>indented lines need a tab as you likely know
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15:32<@Alberth>http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/new_makefile http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/custom_tags.template
15:33<@Alberth>where do the docs go?
15:34<Supercheese>Who let the docs out? Who? Who?
15:34<andythenorth>docs just go in /docs
15:34<andythenorth>I wondered about moving them to generated
15:34<andythenorth>but wasn’t sure of the benefit
15:34<frosch123>Supercheese: that song is older than mib
15:35<Supercheese>it's y2k song
15:35<Supercheese>more or less
15:35<frosch123>it must be 1996 or older
15:36<Supercheese>nah
15:36<@Alberth>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Let_the_Dogs_Out '98 apparently
15:37<frosch123>but wasn't it in men in black 1?
15:37<@Alberth>yeah, I don't remember as y2k either
15:37<frosch123>or was it in some other part?
15:37<frosch123>oh indeed, part 2
15:53<Wolf01>andythenorth https://www.flickr.com/photos/itlug/
15:53<andythenorth>big castle
15:55<Wolf01>I bet you can easily find my moc
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16:05<frosch123>no unicorn though
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16:17<andythenorth>Alberth: so custom_tags.txt is built by make, but not firs.grf
16:17<andythenorth>the targets look right to me though, so what do I miss? o_O
16:17<Mazur>NL elections: we remain democratic and in the EU.
16:18<andythenorth>prediction or fact?
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>does that matter?
16:19-!-sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.45.217] has quit []
16:19*andythenorth wondering if I missed some news
16:19<Mazur>Prediction based on first exit-oll.
16:20<Mazur>poll
16:20<andythenorth>and we still believe polls? o_O
16:21<@Alberth>andythenorth: not sure how firs.grf is different from custom_tags.txt, both are created with commands executed by make
16:21<andythenorth>me neither
16:21<Eddi|zuHause>"of 28 parties 14 will enter the parliament"... good luck forming coalitions :p
16:21<andythenorth>maybe I should put my glasses on :P
16:21<andythenorth>it _looks_ right to me
16:22<andythenorth>render_nml.py doesn’t need the nml flags :)
16:22<andythenorth>but that doesn’t make it work
16:22<@Alberth>but my version uses the "fill-template" command :p
16:24<andythenorth>if I move firs.grf above custom_tags.txt, that works
16:24<andythenorth>approximately
16:24<andythenorth>is order significant in makefile?
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it should not. but you might be missing dependencies?
16:25<frosch123>first target is default target
16:25<@planetmaker>Alberth, andythenorth : custom_tags.txt is written by make and used to fill the lang files with the tags for version mostly
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16:25<frosch123>if the order of other stuff matters, you are doing something wrong (tm)
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, you might want a "default: firs.grf" somewhere near the beginning
16:26<frosch123>usually it's called "all"
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>that would have been my next suggestion
16:28<@Alberth>all: firs.grf at the top (or "default:" as target)
16:28<@Alberth>"make" (without explicit target) builds the first target, otherwise order is not relevant
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>if you're missing dependencies, it might skip building a file
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>(or do them in the wrong order when multithreading)
16:30<andythenorth>looks like it might be working
16:31<@Alberth>planetmaker: sorry, but I have been moving a lot of stuff into a few python scripts, see iron horse :)
16:31<@Alberth>in particular bin/*
16:33<@Alberth>scripts still need a better home
16:33<@planetmaker>:) So no makefiles anymore for building?
16:34<@Alberth>it still has a makefile, just a lot simpler
16:34<@planetmaker>that sounds good
16:34<argoneus>good evening train friends
16:34<@Alberth>running dozens of shells for some text substitution is a bit overcomplicated
16:35<andythenorth>make is a good standard interface imho
16:35<@planetmaker>it's proven to work... the problem is the details :D
16:35<andythenorth>so this is what I’ve got Alberth http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/Makefile
16:35<andythenorth>need to copy the archive stuff
16:36<andythenorth>and add targets for docs and clean
16:36<andythenorth>tabs are a PITA when your editor subsitutes spaces :D
16:36<@planetmaker>looks simple enough that makefile :)
16:37<@Alberth>it's all a tad hard-coded, it seems, but that can be solved later
16:37*andythenorth added docs
16:37<@Alberth>yeah, low-level details are now in the scripts
16:38*andythenorth pushed clean
16:39<@Alberth>planetmaker: iron horse makefile is a bit more finished http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/entry/Makefile
16:39<@Alberth>biggest piece of magic is storing the build parameters in a distribution
16:44<andythenorth>don’t know how or why, but the build is now faster
16:44<andythenorth>not by a lot, but 10-15s
16:44<@Alberth>:o I never knew I have a graph rewrite command :)
16:44<@Alberth>previous makefile created lots of shells that did almost nothing
16:45<@Alberth>it's now bundled in one python script
16:45<@Alberth>or a few, tbh
16:46*andythenorth wonders how long CPP took to parse 485k lines
16:46<andythenorth>I assumed it was instant, just scanning the file
16:46<andythenorth>maybe not
16:46<@Alberth>disk is slow
16:46<@Alberth>even ssd disks :p
16:47<@Alberth>ML_REVISION = $(shell nmlc --version | head -n1 | cut -dr -f2 | cut -d: -f1) <-- that's eg 5 processes
16:47<andythenorth>adds up eh
16:47<andythenorth>ok, this makefile is looking good
16:47<@Alberth>in unix not so much, windows is much worse
16:47<andythenorth>- needs install target
16:47<andythenorth>- needs the archive / zip stuff
16:48<andythenorth>- has no concept of deps :)
16:48<@Alberth>default: firs.tar
16:48<@Alberth>of course it has deps, it needs the grf file and generated docs etc
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>not "bundle_tar: firs.tar"?
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't make a lot of sense
16:49<andythenorth>Alberth: I need to teach it about the python deps in src :)
16:49<andythenorth>it doesn’t see changes currently
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>firs.nml: $PYTHON input_table_file
16:50<@Alberth>SOURCES=$(shell $(FIND_FILES) --ext=.py src) line 18 iron horse
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>and PYTHON = file1.py file2.py ... filen.py
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>that's how i did it in CETS
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>listing the .py files manually
16:51<@Alberth>generated/firs.nml: custom_tags.txt $(SOURCES)
16:51<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: yeah, script collects them for you :)
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>it's not that bad, you usually know when you add .py files :p
16:52<@Alberth>it's a valid option, I agree, I use it too
16:52<andythenorth>Alberth: is it worth trying to keep all the makefiles common across projects?
16:52<andythenorth>seems they will be 85% same
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: they probably diverge a bit over time
16:53<@Alberth>not as goal, I think, but if parts are the same, why not copy it?
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>and unless you keep all projects in the same repo, it's difficult to keep them in sync
16:53<@Alberth>trying to keep them all the same creates lots of edge cases between projects
16:54<@Alberth>much easier to accept build rules are sometimes a little different :p
17:00<andythenorth>ok I just have to learn more make
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17:00<andythenorth>my concern is cargo culting because I don’t have knowledge
17:00<andythenorth>‘paste the codez’ :P
17:02<andythenorth>so is Mashinky good? o_O
17:03<Wolf01>Who ever tried it?
17:03<andythenorth>I thought there were releases, seems not
17:03<Wolf01>I'm still waiting to purchase it at day 1 as soon as it will be put in early access
17:03<andythenorth>looks fricking awesome
17:04<andythenorth>but PC only :P
17:04<andythenorth>the iso-metric <-> 360’ switch looks like it’s done well
17:04<andythenorth>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyGgkrPGhd0&feature=youtu.be
17:04<@Alberth>https://www.gnu.org/software/make/manual/
17:13<@Alberth>isometric is also just 3d, but from a single point of view
17:14<@Alberth>ie just draw rectangles, opengl does the rest :)
17:16<andythenorth>it looks good
17:17<andythenorth>many things don’t :)
17:18<Wolf01>It's very well designed, starting from the "build in isometric and play in full 3D"
17:19<andythenorth>only trains though
17:19<Wolf01>Building in 3D is lame... look at transport fever
17:19<andythenorth>never appealed to me
17:19<andythenorth>I like the ramps on the bridges, looks like Brio ;)
17:19<Wolf01>Yeah
17:19<andythenorth>first thing I’ve seen that appeals more than TTD
17:20<andythenorth>that’s what, 23 years :P
17:20<Wolf01>We should do OpenMashinky too XD
17:20<andythenorth>we should make friends with him :P
17:20<andythenorth>maybe he could employ Pikka
17:23<Wolf01>Maybe I could emigrate in Czechia and get a job
17:23<Wolf01>Italy is dead... definitely
17:24<Wolf01>I hope that with the next elections we also do "QuItaly" so we can give the coup de grace
17:25*andythenorth is out of brain for makefiles tonight :P
17:25<andythenorth>quitting whilst it still works
17:27<@Alberth>:)
17:27<@Alberth>nn
17:27<Wolf01>Nn
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17:38<andythenorth>also
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17:43<Samu>is this good english?
17:43<Samu>STR_CONFIG_SETTING_PLANE_BREAKDOWN_DIST :Flight distance travelled before increases breakdown rate: {STRING2}
17:43<Samu>will be uploading this shortly
17:43<Samu>increased*
17:44<Samu>Flight distance travveled before increased breakdown rate: 100 tiles
17:44<Samu>omg, travelled*
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17:53<Eddi|zuHause><Alberth> isometric is also just 3d, but from a single point of view <-- it must be a point infinitely far away to get a parallel projection?
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18:06<V453000>is slug?
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18:11<Samu>http://imgur.com/a/g9Ssp
18:12<Samu>good or bad englisho?
18:16<__ln__>needs work
18:17<Samu>help me fix it
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18:20<__ln__>can we start by calling the setting itself e.g. "Increased breakdown rate for aircraft after:"
18:20<__ln__>or "Increased aircraft breakdown rate after:"
18:20<Samu>0 days is shown as Disabled
18:21<Samu>after: Disabled :/
18:21<Supercheese>that is fine
18:21<Supercheese>some vanilla settings work that way IIRC
18:21<Supercheese>the meaning is still clear
18:22<Samu>ok, i can do that
18:22<Supercheese>of course, you can still change it in other ways if you like
18:22<Supercheese>myriad ways to say the same thing
18:23<Samu>oh, not 0 days, i mean 0 tiles, was confusing with my last work
18:24<Samu>STR_CONFIG_SETTING_PLANE_BREAKDOWN_DIST :Increased aircraft breakdown rate after:": {STRING2}
18:24<Samu>oops,
18:24<Samu>STR_CONFIG_SETTING_PLANE_BREAKDOWN_DIST :Increased aircraft breakdown rate after: {STRING2}
18:25<Samu>STR_CONFIG_SETTING_PLANE_BREAKDOWN_DIST_VALUE :{COMMA}{NBSP}tile{P "" s}
18:25<__ln__>the last line of the descrption, "When set to 0, ..." seems too obvious to be worth mentioning
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18:27<Samu>well, 0 could lead to someone thinking it would always breakdown :(
18:28<Samu>but ok, i can remove it
18:28<Wolf01>'night
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18:29<Samu> this sets how many *tiles travelled* it takes for
18:29<Samu>tiles travelled or travelled tiles?
18:31<__ln__>but as i understand, you cannot set it to 0, you can only set it to 'Disabled'
18:32<__ln__>the first sentence of the description is too long and complicated
18:32<__ln__>but unfortunately i'm on a timezone where it's time to go sleep
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>"Turkey expunges dutch cows"... why is that a headline in a serious newspaper?
18:36<Supercheese>They're having a cow -- I mean, a row
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>i don't get that pun
18:36<Supercheese>They're supposed to rhyme
18:36<Supercheese>unless I've done something wrong
18:37*Supercheese hopes the British spelling isn't different
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't make it have any sense
18:38<Supercheese>https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/row#Verb_2
18:39<Supercheese>"to have a row" meaning "to quarrel"
18:40<Supercheese>It is also entirely possible that I am merely unfunny
18:41<Eddi|zuHause>no. it's entirely possible that you use words that individually have meaning and make no sense in combination
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18:51<Mazur>I considered it funny, Cheese.
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19:14<Samu>STR_CONFIG_SETTING_PLANE_BREAKDOWN_DIST_HELPTEXT :If vehicle breakdowns are enabled, this sets how many tiles it takes for an aircraft to travel before its forced to breakdown, if it hasn't already
19:15<Samu>Mour englich help
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19:15<Samu>is this clearer now? I ommited moar details though
19:18<Samu>it isn't exactly breaking down past x tiles though, in reality its chances are rapidly growing and growing every day
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19:45<ST2>damn dodger007, you really connected ^^
19:45<dodger007>yeah but i dont see his name
19:46<ST2>yeah, you missed 1 channel on other server
19:46<dodger007>?
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20:05<Samu>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=76044&p=1184036#p1184036
20:05<Samu>just posted
20:05<Samu>waiting for peter1138 disapproval
20:05<Samu>hi ST2
20:05<ST2>hi :)
20:06<ST2>guess you have some words from dodger007
20:06<ST2>I used the whip on him xD
20:06<Samu>yes, i noticed, well i took the time to create that post
20:06<Samu>didn't notice until now
20:08<Samu>do u like my patch? i'm always looking for feedback even if it's bad
20:09<ST2>sadly no time to test stuff, and won't give an opinion only based on how code looks xD
20:10<ST2>because I'm bad there xD
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21:06-!-cHawk is "realname" on #openttd #tor-project #tor
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22:41-!-Snail is "Jacopo Coletto" on #openttd
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23:14-!-Snail is "Jacopo Coletto" on #openttd
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23:15-!-Snail is "Jacopo Coletto" on #openttd
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23:59-!-tokai is "Christian Rosentreter" on #openttd
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---Logclosed Thu Mar 16 00:00:27 2017