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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-03-17

---Logopened Fri Mar 17 00:00:28 2017
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06:01<Wolf01>o/
06:05<crem>\o
06:06<crem>o_ _o (fencing)
06:07<crem>O_O O_O O_O O_O
06:07<crem>O_O O_O O_O O_O
06:07<crem>O_O O_O O_O O_O
06:07<crem>O_O O_O O_O O_O (movie theatre, view from the screen)
06:07<Wolf01>^^^ chan flood
06:08<crem>But it was pretty small theatre hall.
06:08<crem>16 people.
06:10<Wolf01>https://security-center.intel.com/BugBountyProgram.aspx
06:12<crem> ( <- banana
06:12<crem> . <- excavator (far away)
06:13<Wolf01>Breakfast with beer?
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07:18<Samu>should towns build bridges over rail tracks?
07:25<Wolf01>IMO towns shouldn't build even houses, town growth should be replaced by a special AIs
07:34<Samu>aren't GS's for that?
07:35<Samu>i'm gonna post the patch, though I'm not totally happy about it
07:36<@peter1138>I think yes but not exclusively.
07:38<@peter1138>And if they place level crossings, it would be good if they can test/build across all parallel tracks and onto the next clear tile.
07:38<Wolf01>Btw, with NRT towns could already be forbidden to build level crossings
07:38<@peter1138>That would stop useless level crosses into buildings.
07:38<@peter1138>Wolf01, good.
07:39<@peter1138>That's why any patch shouldn't be *only* bridges, must be based on newgrf specs and randomness.
07:39<Wolf01>Maybe trying to build bridges after... like 1990, instead of level crossings should be a nice addition
07:48<Samu>the code for avoiding building long bridges over lakes doesn't work that well
07:49<Samu>it works if it's gonna build a ramp going up, but not if it's gonna build ramp going down
07:49<Samu>going straight*
07:51<Samu>it asks if it's water, but doesn't care if it's sea, river or canal
07:52<Samu>line 1100 town_cmd.cpp
07:52<crem>Among those, only sea is salty, right?
08:05<Samu>i have it building bridges over rails, regardless if the bridge leads into a building, it's not that good
08:06<Samu>but then again, this also happens with rivers and sea, not just because i added rails
08:10<@peter1138>Yeah that's separate behaviour
08:19<Samu>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=76052
08:19<Samu>posted
08:20<Samu>i need screenshots of it
08:20<Samu>must find
08:21<@peter1138>Why does it limit length?
08:21<@peter1138>Bridges already have length limits.
08:22<@peter1138>Uh, the patch doesn't have anything about length limits in it.
08:23<@peter1138>Well, it does but it's already there, so not relevant to the patch.
08:23<Samu>too simple
08:24<Samu>5 is enough to cross a double rail
08:24<Samu>this screenshot doesn't make it justice, must generate another
08:24<Samu>oh wait, it does, on the bottom right side, duh, i'm blind
08:25<Samu>those bridges there are length = 5
08:26<Samu>the one on the left side that leads into the rail, is length = 4
08:27<Samu>brb, gonna try generate more screenshots
08:29<@peter1138>Yeah but why are you talking about length. Your patch doesn't touch length.
08:30<Samu>it re-uses it
08:30<Samu>:(
08:30<Samu>i thought it would be worth mentioning
08:30<@peter1138>It does nothing with it.
08:36<crem>cd D:\
08:37<Wolf01>It is d:
08:37<crem>format a:
08:39<crem>Wow, one can use A: and B: nowadays for hdd.
08:42<Wolf01>I use B: for a backup network mounted folder
08:42<crem>I use O: for openttd.
08:42<Wolf01>Not on this pc, here I directly use Z for the NAS
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08:46<Samu>interesting thing i noticed, if level crossings are enabled, it can still build them, in certain situations
08:46<Samu>i didn't ruin that, amazing
08:47<Samu>most of the time, it prefers building a bridge, only when it really can't build a bridge, it builds a level crossing
08:47<Wolf01>"It works but I don't know why, musty ship this before I break it down while working some more on it"
08:53<Samu>http://imgur.com/QzLCLcq
08:54<Samu>rail was first, then town expanded later
08:54<Samu>it prefers to expand south with bridges, except that middle part
08:54<Samu>it couldn't really build a bridge in that situation, so it opted for level crossing
08:57<Samu>overall, i'm impressed
08:57<Samu>could be better, but oh well
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08:59<andythenorth>isn’t it
09:00<Wolf01>:(
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09:02<andythenorth>why does importing Windows 10 & IE Edge make iTunes skip? :P
09:02<Wolf01>Lolwhat?
09:02<andythenorth>Virtualbox :P
09:03<andythenorth> I am adding VMs
09:03<Samu>http://imgur.com/FFtLQ8z
09:03<andythenorth>mac has gone laggy, even though CPU and IO are doing piss all
09:06<andythenorth>:o Windows 10 is not the Windows I am used to :P
09:06<Wolf01>You'll end up with windows 10 on hardware and OS X on VM as soon as windows will start taking control of the machine
09:07<andythenorth>what is One Drive and why do I have to update it straight away?
09:07<Samu>microsoft's dropbox
09:07<andythenorth>“If I want to continue using it"
09:07<andythenorth>I just booted for first time
09:07<andythenorth>I haven’t used it afaik
09:07<Wolf01>You can ignore it
09:08<andythenorth>Why is Cortana popping me up asking me to ask it stuff?
09:08<Samu>there is no support for Cortana on my country
09:08<andythenorth>tbf, this isn’t unique to Windows, current versions of macOS do dumb shit as well when you first get them
09:09<andythenorth>Cortana is listening to me?
09:09<andythenorth>wtf is that doing enabled by default
09:09<crem>I'm waiting so much windows os to become subscription based.
09:09<Samu>can't tell what she really does
09:15<Wolf01>No andy, Cortana is the entire API, not just the chitty-chatty part
09:17<andythenorth>I’ll have to turn that off…security
09:19<Wolf01>Disable the ads too
09:20<Wolf01>And don't forget to disable the ads ID on the privacy tab
09:22<Wolf01>Disable "occasionally show suggestions" (or what is called) in the customization->start
09:33<supermop>andy on windows?????
09:35<Wolf01>Dunno what for... on VM you can't play games :P
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09:41<supermop>not working out so well huh
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10:12*peter1138 grumbles about mother's day spam.
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10:18*andythenorth grumbles about Virgin
10:18<andythenorth>making me change modem
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10:24<supermop>fiber?
10:25<andythenorth>nah, cable
10:26<andythenorth>seems faster, after an hour of fucking around with set up :)
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11:05<supermop>do you have it looking at your face to log you in?
11:09<Samu>peter1138: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6504
11:09<Samu>I answered
11:16<Samu>peter1138: problem is... the AI is assuming that buoys are always placed, doesn't deal with the error message if the patch is implemented
11:17<@peter1138>Yes exactly. And what's the point.
11:18<Samu>i have some other patches for water construction that actually facilitate placing
11:18<Samu>but then again, AIs are not prepared to handle them graciously
11:18<Samu>it can go both ways
11:18<@peter1138>I'm in favour of removing things that don't add anything
11:19<@peter1138>I use Gnome after all ;)
11:19<Samu>i have one patch which allows placing docks when the 3rd tile check, water tile, is half-filled with water
11:20<Samu>some AIs just place the dock and it results in closing the tiny passage, they end up blocking the ships themselves
11:20<Samu>it eases construction from the point of a human player, but not so for the AI
11:22<@planetmaker>The AI can check that themselves, too. They're just too lazy. And it's a game (mostly) for humans. So making it difficult or annoying for those for the sake of a few AI which could solve that, too, if they were better maintained, is IMHO not the right way
11:27<Samu>sec, i got this one https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=75221
11:27<Samu>what i was talking about
11:34<Samu>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=75237&hilit=patch
11:34<Samu>this one really helps AI, but hinders HU
11:35<Samu>perhaps not as much though
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11:36<Samu>AIs tend to build multiple docks close to each other, leading to blockades
11:36<Samu>with this patch, if I recall, ships never got blocked cause of multiple docks
11:36<Samu>caused by
11:39<Samu>my bad, I meant this patch https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=75216&hilit=patch
11:40<@Alberth>hi hi
11:41<andythenorth>lo Alberth
11:42<Samu>here's another one to help ships viability https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=75217&hilit=patch
11:42<@Alberth>how's firs' make ?
11:42<Samu>town growth tend to block passageways to ships
11:42<Samu>helps both HU and AI
11:43<andythenorth>Alberth: I wanted to complete Iron Horse make first ;)
11:43<Samu>helps AI a great deal actually
11:43<andythenorth>FIRS one is thus a stub
11:43<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/revisions
11:44<Samu>AIs just amass ships, hindering game performance
11:44<Samu>main cause was towns blocking passage with buildings and such
11:45<andythenorth>Alberth: I have 2 confusions
11:45<Samu>oh well i dunno if peter1138 is listening yet :( I guess not
11:46<@Alberth>oh, the "build.py" file, makes sense
11:46<andythenorth>1. I don’t know how to specify graphics deps to be accurate, but also maintainable
11:46<andythenorth>2. my projects have 2 kinds of ‘docs’; html docs that I care about, and the license.txt and changelog.txt that _nobody_ cares about
11:49<@Alberth>$(GRF_FILE): generated/graphics generated/lang $(NML_FILE) <-- $(GRF_FILE): $(GRAPHICS) $(LANG) $(NML_FILE)
11:49<@Alberth>seems better
11:49<@Alberth>although directory is not what you want, I guess
11:50<@Alberth>you actually want the source files themselves
11:52<@Alberth>standard trick for that is to make a dummy time-stamp file that you 'touch' when you re-generate eg the graphics
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11:54<@Alberth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pxtm1nceq the 'graphics.timestamp represents the last time you generated the graphics
11:55<@Alberth>you can make that dependent on the times of the graphics source files (ie files used by src/render_graphics.py)
11:56<andythenorth>oops, I intended to use $(GRAPHICS) etc :).
11:56<andythenorth>oversight
11:56<@Alberth>so if you touch a graphics source file, graphics.timestamp must be rebuilt, and it triggers a run of the python script, and an updated time-stamp of the dummy file. That in turn triggers the nml to be recreated
11:58<@Alberth>oh, graphics.timestamp must be in the grf_file rule, my example uses the wrong nml rule
12:00<@Alberth>(nml doesn't need to be recreated when you change graphics)
12:01<andythenorth>nope :)
12:01<andythenorth>probably anything in src/graphics, and src/graphics_processor
12:01<andythenorth>but also if any vehicle changes, or the vehicle classes in train.py, or global constants defining cargos
12:02<andythenorth>or if the rosters change, or iron_horse.py
12:02<andythenorth>so ~everything is a dep for graphics :P
12:02<@Alberth>GRAPHICS_SOURCES = $(shell bin/find-files src/graphics src/graphics_processor)
12:03<@Alberth>perhaps just run the graphics generator each time when you generate the nml?
12:03<@Alberth>no point in making it a separate step if you do it every time anyway
12:05<@Alberth>oh, perhaps every time you build the grf instead
12:05<@Alberth>stil confusing nml generation with grf generation :)
12:05<andythenorth>it’s nice to have the different elements decomposed :)
12:05<andythenorth>it’s useful when developing
12:06<@Alberth>just rebuild always?
12:06<andythenorth>for graphics, I think so
12:06<andythenorth>in principle 10-15s could be saved by not, but it’s a source of likely bugs
12:07<@Alberth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ppbfppktt
12:08<@Alberth>the .PHONY line says 'there is a target named 'graphics', but don't bother finding a time-stamp for it'
12:08<@Alberth>so it's always out of date when you need it
12:09<andythenorth>ok, I’ll add that in a bit
12:09*andythenorth has to do school run shortly
12:09<@Alberth>running around the school :p
12:10<andythenorth>I’ve pushed some tidying
12:10<@Alberth>ok
12:12<@Alberth>htnl_docs should also be .PHONY, I think
12:13<andythenorth>I find it confusing that docs and html_docs have to be treated separately :P
12:13<andythenorth>I considered shipping the html docs in the tar
12:14<andythenorth>they’re quite big, about 2MB in FIRS case
12:14<andythenorth>but eh, how big is YETI? :P
12:14<@Alberth>that's perhaps my fault, I never considered your html docs, I only say docs/*txt files in the output
12:14<andythenorth>it’s a long-standing issue tbh :)
12:14<@Alberth>compressed?
12:14<@Alberth>you're not a yeti-size grf, I think :p
12:15<andythenorth>IH docs compress to 138KB
12:15<@Alberth>that seems quite nice
12:15<andythenorth>the decision about whether to ship them in the tar was never concluded
12:15<andythenorth>but I am thinking they should
12:15<@Alberth>it makes sense, imho
12:15<andythenorth>sites send me 1MB of JS just for a single page
12:15<@Alberth>now we only need an html browser in openttd :p
12:16<andythenorth>frosch was contemplating one, or trolling me
12:17<andythenorth>ok biab
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12:39<@peter1138>moo
12:45<@peter1138>Samu, posts aren't deleted just because they are implemented
12:51<Samu>t.t
12:51<Samu>it's worthless now
12:51<@peter1138>Lots of posts are worthless.
12:52<Samu>and it's bugged too, and implemented
12:52<Samu>so remove it
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12:55<@Alberth>not useful to you doesn't mean it's not useful in general
12:56<Samu>i'd have to fix something that is already correctly implemented :(
12:56<@Alberth>if usefulness to the author of the post was the only reason to write, nobody would ever post anything, as by definition, the author already knows what he writes (you can't write something you don't know)
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12:57<@Alberth>wb
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13:00<@peter1138>Some people do go around deleting their posts when something is resolved.
13:00<@peter1138>It's bloody annoying.
13:00<@peter1138>It's not how forums work!
13:00<andythenorth>o_O
13:01<@peter1138>I'm ignoring that Canadian guy's outrage :p
13:01<Samu>what do i do about it? fix something that is already implemented? :(
13:02<Samu>weird
13:02<Samu>feels bad to leave it there
13:02<supermop>peter1138: for some certain definitions of 'resolved' in that case i guess
13:03<Samu>feels pointless to fix as well, hmm ughhh
13:03<@Alberth>add a note it has been correctly implemented
13:03<@peter1138>Just leave it and it'll fall off the list.
13:03<@peter1138>Yeah, after that.
13:04<@Alberth>at the time, you believed it was the right solution. That's history you want to preserve. Nowadays, you have new insights, so tell them
13:05<@Alberth>if you delete history, people are not going to understand how you arrived at the point that you do explain
13:05<@Alberth>if you delete all, people may try to do it all again, without the opportunity to learn from previous efforts
13:06<@peter1138>^^
13:06<@Alberth>now if only git was so consistent too... :p
13:06<andythenorth>I don't need your civil war
13:06<andythenorth>It feeds the rich while it buries the poor
13:06<andythenorth>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYoIgKxOK4A
13:07*andythenorth happened to be listening, and got reminded of our Canadian friend
13:08<Samu>oki, i edited the topic, hope it's not bumped to front page
13:08<andythenorth>peter1138: there are probably some canset-related FS issues that could be closed :P
13:09<andythenorth>Alberth: so I need .PHONY for graphics?
13:10<@peter1138>Samu, no need to *edit* it either, but never mind.
13:11<@Alberth>andy: yeah, it avoids accidents if you make by accident a file called 'graphics' and make starts looking at the time stamp of that file
13:12<andythenorth>ok so L20 I have already GRAPHICS = generated/graphics
13:12<andythenorth>do I keep that or delete? o_O
13:13<@Alberth>a variable and a target are different things
13:13<@Alberth>if you get confused, you may want to rename one of them (or both)
13:13<@Alberth>computer doesn't mind, afaik
13:13<andythenorth>GRAPHICS_FILES or so?
13:14<@Alberth>fine by me
13:14<@Alberth>GRAPHICS_DIR ??
13:14<andythenorth>also
13:16<andythenorth>can I add ‘graphics’ target to the existing .PHONY list on L53
13:16<@Alberth>sure
13:17<@Alberth>you may want to move that line a bit up then, but it's likely not relevant
13:18<andythenorth>I can also extend the clean list
13:18<@Alberth>I hope you can :p
13:18<andythenorth>strictly clean could just ‘rm -r generated’
13:19<@Alberth>I folded a 'exists' tests around it, I think, I prefer that rather than -f, but ymmv
13:19<@Alberth>s/than/above/
13:19<andythenorth>I like the exists test, previous makefile spat warnings if the dirs didn’t exist
13:20<@Alberth>bit of a corner case whether it's worth writing a python script for that
13:21<andythenorth>I can at least read the python script without much effort ;)
13:22<andythenorth>I’ve pushed some more stuff
13:22<andythenorth>I think clean now cleans up correctly
13:22<andythenorth>although I previously had it removing nml and chameleon caches also
13:23<andythenorth>not sure if that’s correct or not
13:23<andythenorth>caches can cause spurious errors to persist even when fixed in src
13:23<andythenorth>so safer to remove in my experience
13:24<@Alberth>you're the boss to decide what 'clean' does :)
13:25<andythenorth>oic :P
13:27<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/revisions/9356a50c9193/diff/Makefile
13:30<@Alberth>you can split the line by a \ at the end (no spaces or tabs behind it!)
13:31<@Alberth>not sure what the src/*/__pycache__ thing does if there are not python caches, the shell may give a warning
13:31<@Alberth>s/not/no/
13:31<andythenorth>seems not to
13:31*andythenorth pushed the split line
13:32<andythenorth>ok, now for docs :)
13:32<@Alberth>maybe your shell is "smart" and keeps src/*/__pycache__ which the 'exists' check then discards :)
13:32<@Alberth>but works, so done :)
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13:35<@Alberth>o/
13:36<ZirconiumX>Is there any way to find out why Cargodist is giving a negative profit for a route?
13:37<@Alberth>cargodist doesn't do that
13:37<@Alberth>it's purely the cargo you're moving
13:37<@Alberth>https://wiki.openttd.org/Negative_income_with_feeder_service
13:39<@Alberth>ie check where cargo is coming from, and going to
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13:43<andythenorth>oops, I broke bundle_tar
13:43<ZirconiumX>I also have £1,337k.
13:44<@Alberth>1M is enough, you can stop playing, and exchange it at the bank
13:44<ZirconiumX>Fair enough
13:45<frosch123>hoi
13:45<ZirconiumX>Hi frosch123
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13:48<Samu>Wormnest_: hi
13:48<andythenorth>structuring the bundle is a bit of faff
13:48<andythenorth>I can see how the coop makefile got complicated
13:48<andythenorth>I need to build license.txt in the docs dir
13:48<andythenorth>then move that to the bundle dir
13:48<andythenorth>then copy docs dir into bundle dir
13:49<Samu>are you a pathfinder expert? I'm looking for someone who understands what Aystar code is doing
13:49<@Alberth>no need to move files, mk-archive collects from anywhere
13:50<Samu>i wanted to make river generation code friendly to locks, so far all my efforts have failed me
13:50<Samu>goal was to generate rivers which are friendly for lock placement during map creation
13:51<Samu>make ships great on openttd
13:51<Samu>keks
13:51<@Alberth>Samu: A* explanations all around the Interwebs
13:52<Samu>i guess i also need a slope expert
13:52<Samu>or i'm just too dumb
13:52<@Alberth>examine 1 thing at a time
13:53<@Alberth>trying to do it all at the same time is very fast very difficult
13:55<Samu>i examined the slope part, looks perfected to check tile by tile, but not the surrounding tiles
13:56<Samu>it marks tiles for the pathfinder, and that's the unknown part
13:57<@Alberth>could be, I never looked at that code
13:57<@Alberth>aystar is horribly complicated though
13:58<@Alberth>so many layers of templates on top of each other
13:58<@Alberth>also, it's heavily optimized, so not simple to understand at all
13:58<Samu>seems that when the pathfinder starts building, it picks random directions
13:58<Samu>no matter what tiles I mark
13:59<@Alberth>it's not random :p
14:00<Samu>static bool FlowsDown(TileIndex begin, TileIndex end)
14:00<Eddi|zuHause>weird... something broke, and i can't move any windows...
14:00<@Alberth>http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~amitp/gameprog.html#paths this may be useful
14:00<Samu>line 1000 at landscape.cpp
14:01<andythenorth>Alberth: bin/mk-archive expects only files, never dirs?
14:01<Samu>that part is what decides which tiles are marked
14:01<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: the window manager (sets focus, etc)
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14:01<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but focus and stuff works fine
14:01<@Alberth>andythenorth: also directories
14:01<Eddi|zuHause>also, minimizing/maximizing
14:02<Eddi|zuHause>just not move...
14:02<andythenorth>Alberth: do dirs need some flag?
14:02<@Alberth>hmm, weird
14:02<andythenorth>I’m trying to feed it the docs/ dir
14:02<@Alberth>andythenorth: no, afaik just list them
14:02<@Alberth>it should include the contents recursively
14:03<@Alberth>you can try it at the command-line
14:03<@Alberth>note that --flatten removes directory trees :p
14:03<andythenorth>mk-archive ERROR: Path 'docs' is not a file
14:04<@Alberth>you may want to read --help a bit :)
14:04<andythenorth>ok
14:04<@Alberth>:o
14:04<andythenorth>(bin35) iron-horse$ bin/mk-archive -o=foo.tar docs
14:04<@Alberth>sounds like something that needs extending then?
14:04<andythenorth>or I use it wrong?
14:05<@Alberth>not sure, it looks reasonable
14:05<@Alberth>it works if you give it a file?
14:05<@Alberth>maybe add a --tar ?
14:06<@Alberth>may be default though
14:06<andythenorth>works fine with a file
14:06<@Alberth>ok, I think it's reasonable to give a directory to it
14:07<andythenorth>os.isdir() ?
14:08<@Alberth>sanity checking would break with --flatten, so it needs more work
14:10<andythenorth>zip the dir, move the zip, unzip it :P
14:10*andythenorth redneck solutions
14:10<Wormnest_>Samu: No, I know a little bit of what it does but certainly not an expert
14:12<@Alberth>andythenorth: 'fix' line 159 err = None # err = check_uniq_filenames(args, flatten)
14:13<__ln__>leaders of the free world speaking live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7HIFCwnPXQ
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14:15<Samu>they're both terribad
14:15<ZirconiumX>Don't you just love NewGRFs not playing along nicely?
14:18<andythenorth>Alberth: moves the dir, but not the contents :D
14:18<andythenorth>80% is easy, it’s always the 20% :P
14:19<@peter1138>moo
14:20<@peter1138>hmm
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14:25<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: depends on your definitions of "leader", "free" or "world", i suppose...
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: and possibly "live"
14:27<Montana>you forgot speaking too
14:28<__ln__>and even "speaking"
14:28<Montana>lol
14:29<Wolf01>And what about "of the"?
14:29<__ln__>or ":"
14:40<Samu>what are the SET_MARK doing?
14:41<Samu>line 1110 landscape.cpp
14:41<Samu>i see it clears the marks right before calling the aystar to build the river
14:41<Samu>pathfinder doesn't see these marks, :( I don't get this
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14:47<Samu>what's a breadth first search :(
14:48<andythenorth>possible entry points?
14:48*andythenorth is guessing
14:48<Samu>http://www.redblobgames.com/pathfinding/a-star/introduction.html i stumbled here for breadth first search
14:48<ZirconiumX>But A* isn't Breadth first, it's Best first
14:50<Samu> /* Breadth first search for the closest tile we can flow down to. */
14:51<Samu>it's trying to locate an inclined slope?
14:51<@Alberth>search in every direction, closest unexamined tile first
14:52<@Alberth>andythenorth:: interesting that it skips the content :) will have a look tomorrow
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15:11<andythenorth>Alberth: ok cool, I am afk soon also
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15:28<Wolf01>http://www.kystverket.no/en/About-Kystverket/Stad-Ship-Tunnel-project/ so... there is no reason to not implement it on OTTD too, R world is less realistic sometime...
15:29<andythenorth>I see no reason to not have it in ottd
15:29<andythenorth>it’s not a balancing issue
15:29<andythenorth>ships already have clipping issues
15:29<andythenorth>tunnels already have clipping issues
15:29<andythenorth>so it’s not a graphics issue either
15:31<@Alberth>what, first ship tunnel?
15:32<@Alberth>I am pretty sure I saw tunnels for ships aged around the start of the industrial revolution
15:32<@Alberth>in the UK
15:32<Wolf01>Not as big
15:32<@Alberth>true, but it's not the first by any means
15:33<Eddi|zuHause>france has loads of ship tunnels that date from before industrialisation
15:34<@Alberth>sounds likely
15:34<@Alberth>have hilly enough country, and sooner or later someone is going to dig a tunnel
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>yes, and they had really extensive channel projects
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>like dating back to louis XIV
15:36<Wolf01>Yeah they indeed have a nice channel network
15:37<supermop>sounds like cable tv
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think louis XIV knew about cable tv
15:38<Wolf01>They performed naval battles at Versailles!
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>what else would you do without cable tv? :p
15:40<Wolf01>The same as I do now, as I don't watch tv if not for the rare moments I pass through the living room to get to the kitchen
15:41<andythenorth>bye
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15:41<Eddi|zuHause>but you have this box in front of you that performs naval battles and stuff
15:41<Wolf01>Yup
15:41<Eddi|zuHause>you probably performed more naval battles than all 18th century versailles people combined
15:42<Wolf01>Probably, let me check how many hours I played Windward
15:43<Wolf01>Not much, only 68 hours
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>there are more games with naval battles...
15:43<Wolf01>I should play patrician 3 and 4
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>also, i have only like 30 hours
15:50<@Alberth>RL battles perhaps lasted days?
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16:00<@peter1138>Hmm
16:12<Wolf01>Exactly
16:27*peter1138 ponders the chances of nvidia drivers working with an RT kernel
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>what would you need an RT kernel for?
16:32<@peter1138>Audio.
16:49<SpComb>are your buffers not long enough
17:00<@peter1138>Low latency for realtime MIDI synthesis. Like wot I did with Belugas.
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>try like a virtual realtime?
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>PLC simulation uses stuff like that
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17:07<@peter1138>What?
17:08<@peter1138>It's not real realtime anyway, as it's Linux.
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17:49<@peter1138>Hmm
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18:04<@peter1138>v->NeedsServicing is a pain ;(
18:11<Wolf01>'night
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18:47<@peter1138>Doesn't seem to help anyway.
18:47<@peter1138>Oh, rtirq might work
18:48<@peter1138>Hmm, no, it was already there.
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19:13<drac_boy>hi..anyone from europe area for a short chat atm?
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19:48<@peter1138>Nah
19:49<drac_boy>hi supercheese, any big cheeses tonight? ;)
19:50<Supercheese>no just corned beef
19:50<drac_boy>:p
19:51<@peter1138>Hmm, so helicopters autorenewing but sometimes they unnecessarily go off on a jolly to just do servicing.
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20:11<__ln__>snow plowing as planned https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZltt9r98d8
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: the cards inbetween the videos seem a bit off
20:17<__ln__>yeah, something odd about them
20:42<@peter1138>Hmm, helicopter auto-servicing at helipads.
20:42<@peter1138>Should they always doing it, or should they obey their service interval?
20:44<Supercheese>Any downside to always doing it?
20:47<@peter1138>Not really, and that's what currently happens.
20:52<Samu>i don't like helicopter auto-servicing at helipads
20:52<Samu>i aways disable that
20:54<Samu>they should head to the nearest hangar, but not all helistations have depots
20:56<Samu>I don't remember, but I think the game doesn't service helicopters at all if all orders include helistations without hangars
20:56<Samu>this didn't happen on the original ttd
20:56<@peter1138>If there's airport with a hangar it'll get sent there.
20:57<@peter1138>And there'd need to be one somewhere to create the helicopter initially, though it could be removed.
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21:10<@peter1138>Hmm, this patch is awkward :(
21:10<supermop_home>bit late for you no, peter1138?
21:11<@peter1138>In the case of a heli going between two heliports and serviceathelipad is on, we do now send it to a hangar for replacement
21:12<@peter1138>Side affect is that all helis will get sent to a hangar for replacement possibly before their service interval
21:12<@peter1138>Maybe
21:14<supermop_home>like if I replace a helicopter, all will go immediately?
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21:15<@peter1138>not quite immediately, but on next take-off. only if serviceathelipads is enabled.
21:16<@peter1138>subtle gameplay unexpected gameplay difference
21:16<@peter1138>er
21:16<@peter1138>-gameplay
21:17<supermop_home>heh
21:17<supermop_home>yeah sounds annoying?
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21:34<@peter1138>My alternate patch makes the helipad servicing obey service intervals, which means that never happens, but sometimes it ends up sending a heli to a hangar by mistake
21:35<Samu>check it mid flight
21:35<Samu>like ttd
21:41<Samu>i'm investigating the optimal distance for Dinger 1000
21:41<Samu>because i'm bored
21:42<Samu>it's somewhere between 800 and 1600
21:42<Supercheese>Dinger 1000 -> Clearly optimal distance must then be 1000
21:42<Supercheese>:P
21:43<Samu>2000 yields less profit than 1600, i didn't test 1200 or 800 yet, brb
21:49<Samu>ah crap, my statistics are flawed, i had cargodist enabled
21:49<Samu>bah
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22:26<Samu>3200 distance - £6.4M
22:26<Samu>2800 distance - £6,9M
22:27<Samu>2400 distance - £7,1M
22:27<Samu>2000 distance - £7,5M
22:27<Samu>1600 distance - £7,6M
22:28<Samu>800 distance - £7,1M
22:28<Samu>I don't have time to test between 800-1600 now, will test it tomorrow
22:28<Samu>cyas
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---Logclosed Sat Mar 18 00:00:29 2017