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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-03-20

---Logopened Mon Mar 20 00:00:32 2017
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04:04<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r27809 trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp (2017-03-20 09:04:47 +0100 )
04:04<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Improve check in UpdateLevelCrossing
04:04<@DorpsGek>In UpdateLevelCrossing, checking if a level crossing is reserved is
04:04<@DorpsGek>cheaper than finding trains on it or approaching it, so do it first. (cirdan)
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04:24<Wolf01>Moin
04:57<@peter1138>hi
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05:01<Samu>lol, when i was working with a variable, i came up with a st2 name
05:01<Samu>slope tile2
05:02<Samu>Slope st2 = GetTileSlope(t2, &heightt2);Slope st2 = GetTileSlope(t2, &ht2);
05:03<__ln__>that's racist
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05:27<crem>Isn't openttd great!
05:27<crem>?
05:27<crem>morgnin
05:27<Samu>how do i convert a DiagDir into a Slope?
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05:30<crem>https://docs.openttd.org/slope__func_8h.html#a504e7c2b4722e2cef2ea89dd605f0082
05:30<crem>https://docs.openttd.org/slope__func_8h.html#aab19b33527e39c6aa980e3f66f8c9746
05:30*crem has no idea what DiagDir or Slope is.
05:30<__ln__>crem: http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/slope
05:31<crem>Thanks. :)
05:31<Samu>i guess Inclined(Slope) will do
05:31<Samu>erm, InclinedSlope
05:33<Samu>InclinedSlope(DiagdirBetweenTiles(begin, t2)
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06:03<crem>I've just seen ad of youtube on youtube!
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06:13<@peter1138>andy is north
06:13<andythenorth>isn’t it
06:13<@peter1138>apparently there's some guy called peter north
06:13<@peter1138>i have no idea
06:19<Samu>i can't make rivers flow the way I want :(
06:20<@peter1138>heh
06:21<Samu>still stuck on breadth first search
06:21<Samu>whatever that is
06:23<Samu>now i made rivers not able to flow down a slope :( gah
06:24<Samu>i think i'm doing this check in the wrong place
06:25<Samu>i want rivers to Flow down on slopes like they're locks
07:04<Samu>this is the best I could do yet https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ppvuydn55?/ppvuydn55
07:05<Samu>it's something, but insuficient
07:06<andythenorth>such forests
07:06*andythenorth would like FIRS forest to just be….better
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07:10<@peter1138>So would we!
07:12<Wolf01>o/
07:14<Wolf01>Why is geometry so shitty? I need to fit an octagon in a bigger square with squares, triangles, and rectangles
07:42<andythenorth>cut it out on paper
07:42<andythenorth>primary school style, tesselation
07:43<andythenorth>https://www.mathsisfun.com/geometry/tessellation.html
07:43<andythenorth>Wolf01: (needs Flash so I can’t see it) https://www.mathsisfun.com/geometry/tessellation-artist.html
07:48<Wolf01>Eh... I need to work with some sqrt(2)
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07:55<crem>√2 is not the worst number.
07:56<crem>Zdravo, Sova!
07:57<Sova>Zdravo crem!
07:58<crem>Are you an owl?
07:58<andythenorth>so what is wrong with FIRS forest then?
07:58<Sova>It's an old nick from primary school
07:59<crem>But does it mean owl in srbska?
07:59<Sova>Oh yes
07:59<crem>Ok. So it is in belarusian. And russian.
08:00<Sova>I assume so. Our languages are pretty similar.
08:00<@peter1138>Ooh, article 50 on Wednesday.
08:00<@peter1138>Who's up for an assassination attempt?
08:04<crem>Quack.
08:05<andythenorth>peter1138: your career as a fifth columnist will be short-lived :P
08:05<andythenorth>it’s now obvious who you work for
08:07<crem>In isometric projection games, how 2d array of cells is usually stored, what is rows and what is columns? Should a person tilt his head 45 degrees right or left?
08:10<andythenorth>x goes to the left and y goes to the right
08:11<crem>"row" should go from top to bottm, and "col" from left to right, after tilting head. The question is whether head should be tilted left or right. For me, tilting right feels more natural.
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08:12<andythenorth>openttd does it left
08:13<andythenorth>at least for newgrf co-ords
08:13<andythenorth>it’s a -30 degree rotation or so, I think
08:13<andythenorth>peter1138 probably knows better than me :P
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08:15<@peter1138>But columns are top to bottom, and rows are left to right.
08:16<@peter1138>And anyway, it's a flat array.
08:17<andythenorth>interesting
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09:40<supermop>can i put a pylon in the center of a tile?
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09:59<supermop>bad news for spaced out catenary pylons means gondolas are going to look stupid if implemented as trams
10:04<andythenorth>they won’t work as trams anyway
10:04<andythenorth>not well enough to justify the effort
10:04<supermop>i just want them to look neat
10:05<andythenorth>shame we can’t blat a few more transport types into the map :P
10:05<supermop>indeed
10:05<andythenorth>ropeways / gondolas, pipes, belts
10:06*andythenorth thinks ‘excessive transport types’ is just what the game needs :)
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10:20<@peter1138>teleporters!
10:25<supermop>Le Paz metro
10:25<supermop>is it la paz?
10:25<supermop>le isn't spanish after all
10:26<supermop>well bolivian gondola metro one way or the other
10:27<supermop>sheep drovers?
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10:28<supermop>1 man on foot, capacity 1 bag of mail or 1000 head of livestock
10:28<supermop>3mph
10:51<andythenorth>roller-coasters
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11:37<@Alberth>hi hi
11:37<crem>hi hi hi hi
11:38<andythenorth>lo Alberth
11:52<Samu>hi
11:52<Wolf01>o/
11:52<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pxqgmohaf
11:52<Samu>my work so far on friendly river gen
11:52<crem>What is a friendly river?
11:53<andythenorth>it brings you tea
11:54<Samu>rivers that makes placing locks easy
11:54<Samu>it's kinda ugly
11:54<@peter1138>Speaking of tea
11:54<Wolf01>+ +1
11:54<Samu>and it only works for ships that can make 90 degrees
11:55<Wolf01>*^
11:55<Samu>it would require more space if 90 degrees are forbidden, i doubt many rivers would be generated
11:56<Wolf01>We voted for removing locks, so it shouldn't be a problem :P
11:56<@peter1138>Eh, ships should be able to stop & turn on the spot.
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11:58<andythenorth>forbidding 90’ turns for ships is a joke setting :)
11:59<andythenorth>apologies to whoever coded that ;)
11:59<Samu>the water connection is really really ugly
11:59<Samu>not sure how i can improve it
12:00<andythenorth>peter1138: just like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-RIMcpmzuM
12:11<@peter1138>That'll do.
12:12<andythenorth>now we just need things ships can crash into
12:16<Samu>darn tile heights...
12:16<@peter1138>Other ships.
12:22<andythenorth>such ships
12:24<andythenorth>http://www.splashseaschool.com/img/course/rules/g_rule15.jpg
12:25<andythenorth>http://www.splashseaschool.com/demo/rules08.html
12:25<andythenorth>also http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3Z2exFcIqXo/UB2Zy1K-nSI/AAAAAAAAAJ8/WqECs7LiT70/s1600/loadlines.jpg
12:32<@peter1138>Yes. No.
12:35<andythenorth>child #1 found it weird that ships overlap
12:36<andythenorth>he set a bunch going at same time with depot green flag
12:36<andythenorth>didn’t understand where they had gone
12:36<andythenorth>personally I like our infinite ship capacity :P
12:40<Samu>http://imgur.com/ZrykPlX
12:40<Samu>friendly rivers, do you notice anything strange?
12:40<Samu>not connected, but connectable without terraforming
12:42<Samu>meh, i guess it's hard to visualize it
12:44<andythenorth>samu? o_O
12:45<Samu>http://imgur.com/a/GJukQ
12:45<Samu>same image, now with locks
12:45<Samu>and some canals
12:45<Samu>no terraforming was necessary
12:46<andythenorth>rivers are different in each image
12:46<andythenorth>is that actual code, or are you mocking up your goal? :)
12:46<Samu>code produces first image
12:46<andythenorth>yes
12:47<andythenorth>it makes rivers a waste of time, most of the time :)
12:47<Samu>then i built locks and canals to show you that it's not needed to terraform to connect rivers with locks and canals
12:47<Samu>that was part of the objective
12:48<andythenorth>ah, your canals look like rivers to me, so I was confused ;)
12:48<andythenorth>I have different sprites
12:50<Samu>the other goal was indeed to avoid having to build canal tiles
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12:50<Samu>all that the player had to do was just place the locks
12:50<Samu>but i don't know how to do that :(
12:51<Samu>the way I have it, is terribly ugly
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12:52<andythenorth>you’re forbidding turns preceeding a slope?
12:56<Wolf01>https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/561/32406320236_e06805f49b_h.jpg wonderful
12:56<Samu>hmm no, how do i do that
12:58<Samu>let me copy paste my code again
12:59<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p3exd3iwd - this code generates the first image here http://imgur.com/a/GJukQ
13:00<Samu>i got a lot of // lines to disable the 2nd part of the code, the part which would connect to would-be locks
13:01<andythenorth>“What are the best grfs?”……. “mine” :P
13:01*andythenorth won’t post that :)
13:01<andythenorth>people don’t know when I’m joking
13:04<@peter1138>:)
13:06<andythenorth>where is pikka then?
13:06<Samu>how do i forbid turns preceeding a slope? :)
13:06<Samu>andythenorth:
13:07<andythenorth>Samu I have NFI :)
13:07<Samu>i dont think i'm doing that
13:07<andythenorth>the pathfinder presumably pre-computes the path before building any tile?
13:07<Samu>i check the slopes directly
13:08<andythenorth>I like your approach to trying to fix this, I hadn’t considered this idea
13:08<andythenorth>however, 1 tile docks would also solve it :P
13:08<andythenorth>your idea doesn’t mean bumping savegame, nor changing baseset sprites
13:12<Samu>nice
13:12<Samu>someone interested
13:12<andythenorth>@seen someone
13:12<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: someone was last seen in #openttd 6 years, 22 weeks, 2 days, 23 hours, 32 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <Someone> indeed
13:13<andythenorth>not generating crap rivers is better than changing other things to fit the crap rivers
13:13<Samu>hehe
13:14*andythenorth has no idea how pathfinder works
13:14<andythenorth>does it have conditions?
13:14<andythenorth>the train pathfinder has weightings for various conditions
13:15<andythenorth>maybe the pathfinder can dump some weighting to 0% or 100% or whatever
13:15<andythenorth>if it finds a slope after a corner
13:16<andythenorth>or set a flag after a corner, so that if next tile is slope, it abandons that path
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13:16<andythenorth>needs a programmer, not a devloloper like me :
13:17<andythenorth>I can’t even type emoticons properly :P
13:17<Samu>the only pathfinder part I'm modifying is /* AyStar callback when an route has been found. */ static void River_FoundEndNode(AyStar *aystar, OpenListNode *current)
13:18<Samu>oh and... another about neighbours, but that's via FlowsDown
13:19<Samu>i still don't understand how it decides which direction to take, i don't know how to follow that code
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13:23<andythenorth>it’s following a direction to the end node, right?
13:23<andythenorth>diagonal, not manhattan
13:24<andythenorth>dunno what INVALID_TRACKDIR is doing
13:24<andythenorth>I suspect that needs to be known
13:24<andythenorth>to understand
13:25<Samu>a tile can be connected from 4 directions
13:25<Samu>but locks are special
13:25<Samu>only 2 directions
13:25<andythenorth>oh FlowRiver recurses
13:25<andythenorth>recursive functions always boggle my mind
13:26<Samu>yes, each time it finds a slope, it re-does FlowRiver
13:27<Samu>it keeps doing this until it finds water
13:27<Samu>usually sea water, but can also be water from other rivers
13:27<andythenorth>or it builds a lake if it can’t go downhill
13:28<Samu>yes
13:28<Samu>didn't touch lakes
13:40<Samu>i think i got a problem calculating distance from edge, gah...
13:40<Samu>not easy to detect
13:44<Samu>DistanceFromEdge(tile - delta) <= 1 || blabla || DistanceFromEdge(tile - 2 * delta) <= 1 || more bla bla || DistanceFromEdge(tile - 3 * delta) <= 1
13:44<Samu>yep, it's wrong, just fixed it
13:44<Samu>i had it like DistanceFromEdge(tile - 2 * delta + TileOffsByDiagDir(ChangeDiagDir(dir, DIAGDIRDIFF_90RIGHT))) <= 1
13:44<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r27810 trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp (2017-03-20 18:44:37 +0100 )
13:44<@DorpsGek>-Change: Factor out reservation-handling code in station_cmd.cpp
13:44<@DorpsGek>Code dealing with freeing and restoring track reservations is
13:44<@DorpsGek>duplicated in CmdBuildRailStation and RemoveFromRailBaseStation;
13:44<@DorpsGek>make separate functions for it. (cirdan)
13:45<Samu>this is wrong
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13:48<@peter1138>Good ol' 6 year old patches...
13:49<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r27811 /trunk/src (train.h train_cmd.cpp) (2017-03-20 18:49:44 +0100 )
13:49<@DorpsGek>-Change: Remove unused parameters in FreeTrainTrackReservation
13:49<@DorpsGek>FreeTrainTrackReservation is always called with INVALID_TILE
13:49<@DorpsGek>and INVALID_TRACKDIR as second and third arguments, so remove
13:49<@DorpsGek>them and just use those constants instead. (cirdan)
13:50<Samu>who's cirdan? he must be an expert
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13:50<@peter1138>Yes
13:51<@peter1138>Compared to, say, you.
13:51<@peter1138>;)
13:51<Samu>yes
13:57<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r27812 trunk/src/elrail.cpp (2017-03-20 18:57:24 +0100 )
13:57<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Road tunnel/bridge heads have no trackbits wrt catenary drawing
13:57<@DorpsGek>Road tunnels and bridges do not have any rail, so do not treat them
13:57<@DorpsGek>as if they had when drawing a catenary. (cirdan)
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14:14<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r27813 trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp (2017-03-20 19:14:22 +0100 )
14:14<@DorpsGek>-Change: Remove _road_enter_dir_to_reachable_trackdirs
14:14<@DorpsGek>_road_enter_dir_to_reachable_trackdirs was just a copy of
14:14<@DorpsGek>DiagdirReachesTrackdirs. (cirdan)
14:16<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r27814 trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp (2017-03-20 19:16:23 +0100 )
14:16<@DorpsGek>-Change: Remove _roadveh_depot_exit_trackdir
14:16<@DorpsGek>_roadveh_depot_exit_trackdir was just a copy of
14:16<@DorpsGek>DiagDirToDiagTrackdir. (cirdan)
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14:43<andythenorth>peter1138: were those cirdan commits from fs? Or somewhere else?
14:43*andythenorth wonders if cirdan should be told
14:43<andythenorth>eh, maybe he reads the ottd commit log
14:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27815 trunk/src/lang/russian.txt (2017-03-20 19:45:36 +0100 )
14:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
14:45<@DorpsGek>russian: 7 changes by Lone_Wolf
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14:50<@peter1138>Probably, he merges bits occasionally.
14:55<frosch123>hoin
14:59<andythenorth>quak
15:02<frosch123>so, noone complained in two months that my nml binary does not work?
15:07<andythenorth>“until now"
15:07<andythenorth>supermop: how do you build Unspooled?
15:14<Wolf01>http://imgur.com/gallery/AHFwa lol
15:16<@Alberth>rofl!
15:17<andythenorth>I watched it multiple times :P
15:20<frosch123>shell history is awesome
15:20<frosch123>i wouldn't know how to compile nml for windows, if not by looking into the shell history
15:22<andythenorth>I should find where mine is logged
15:22<andythenorth>it must be logged somewhere :P
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15:26<frosch123>andythenorth: can you please replace the link with one to nml-nrt-8f4bb3d0-win32.zip
15:26<frosch123>i also pulled before rebuild
15:26<frosch123>or should i not include the version in the url?
15:27<frosch123>andythenorth: please replace it with nml-nrt-latest-win32.zip
15:27<frosch123>i symlinked that
15:29<andythenorth>frosch123: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1180663#p1180663
15:30<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r27816 /trunk/src (3 files) (2017-03-20 20:30:49 +0100 )
15:30<frosch123>let's see whether it works this time :p
15:30<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6421]: Do not search directories when opening ini files as we already have their full path.
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15:55<supermop>andythenorth: just nmlc on a usb drive
16:05<supermop>i dont understand how to set up anything more sophisticated than that
16:08<andythenorth>you’re on windows?
16:09<supermop>yep
16:09<supermop>10
16:09<supermop>7 at work
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16:33<argoneus>good evening train friends
16:34<Wolf01>o/
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16:48<@peter1138>Hmm
16:56<andythenorth>yes
16:57<@peter1138>Hmm!
16:59<andythenorth>why are forests crap?
16:59<andythenorth>and what can I do about it?
16:59<@peter1138>Because bears shit in them.
16:59<andythenorth>bear!
16:59<andythenorth>that’s what I should add
17:01<@peter1138>Hmm, is there something that prefers placing towns next to water?
17:02<@peter1138>Or is that just a side effect of towns being placed away from other towns.
17:02<andythenorth>I thought there was a thing that tried not to put them next to water
17:02*andythenorth might be having alt-memories
17:03<andythenorth>hmm default game forest has 9 trees per tile
17:03<andythenorth>FIRS only has 4
17:03<andythenorth>that’s less
17:03<frosch123>peter1138: coast is preferred
17:03<frosch123>whenever the random tile ends up within wate, it looks for the nearest land tile
17:04<andythenorth>neat
17:04<frosch123>in total that makes coast more likely
17:04<frosch123>(it
17:04<frosch123>'s an intentional feature from a few years ago)
17:04<andythenorth>someone made some forest grf or objects
17:04*andythenorth looks
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17:06<andythenorth>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=71330&hilit=forest
17:08<supermop>i like mcz's logging camp, except lately i the maps i play never can place it
17:09<supermop>because those trails require a huge flat area
17:09<andythenorth>they look like they can handle slopes
17:09<andythenorth>but eh
17:09<supermop>or something
17:09<supermop>idkl
17:09<supermop>whenever i play i get the 'cant find a place for ' warning at game start
17:09<andythenorth>bigger landing area? cutting areas? trails?
17:10*andythenorth is looking for ideas
17:10<frosch123>trail roadtype :p
17:10<andythenorth>FIRS forest (1) looks boring to provide service to (2) is hard to see if trees are enabled
17:10<andythenorth>(3) is hard to see if transparency is on (4) has no animation of any kind
17:11<andythenorth>(5) bare land under trees looks crappy
17:11<Wolf01>Work at minecarts with supermop
17:11<supermop>haha
17:11<supermop>carts would be nice
17:12<frosch123>didn't some grf use 2/3 grass under trees?
17:12<frosch123>i thought that was firs
17:12<supermop>bigger areas would be ok except would be really hard to place
17:12<frosch123>possibly ogfx+industries
17:13<andythenorth>1/3 mud?
17:13<Samu>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=76075&p=1184230#p1184230
17:13<Samu>discuss :p
17:13<andythenorth>the ‘grass grows back’ tile?
17:14<@peter1138>Ah, my ships are breaking down :S
17:14<@peter1138>I got 15 years into a game then decided I didn't like the map...
17:14<supermop>re implement grass as a tree
17:15<andythenorth>peter1138: that’s standard operating procedure :)
17:15<andythenorth>I get a few towns and industries connected, then something is just blearch :)
17:15<andythenorth>all industries should look like this http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#pyrite_smelter
17:15<andythenorth>forest does not
17:16<supermop>thats why i play 64 or 128 usually now
17:16<supermop>maybe 64x512
17:16<andythenorth>micro
17:16<andythenorth>256x256 is boss
17:16<supermop>no desire to play longer than 20 years
17:18<@peter1138>I wanted more water. 70% now.
17:18<@peter1138>(Hence lots of coastal towns)
17:18<andythenorth>I want a forest that looks industrialised
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17:18<andythenorth>none of this rural stuff
17:19<@peter1138>strict rows of trees
17:19<@peter1138>logging tracks through it all
17:19<supermop>well you could have a copse like in tto with stumps
17:20<@peter1138>Basically draw a mini Spintires.
17:20<frosch123>hmm, i cannot find the grf where the forest looked like that
17:20<@peter1138>TaI
17:20<@peter1138>Hmm, nah, that just had gaps.
17:20<supermop>non- mountainous managed forests here typically have all trees on a 12' or 20' square grid
17:20<supermop>with roads every few 100 feet
17:29<andythenorth>one of them had animation for trees being cut, either default or PBI
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17:34<@peter1138>Oh dear. I think I spent too much money.
17:35<andythenorth>such bedtime
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17:38<Samu>darn, i missed 3 locks in that image
17:39<Samu>erm, rapids
17:39<Samu>locks in rapids
17:39<Samu>or whatever, my english fails
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>ao, looka likw i'm going to eindhoven tomorrow (business trip)
17:45<@peter1138>To get a new keyboard?
17:45<supermop>for some reason i thought Eddi|zuHause was an academic
17:45<@peter1138>Cos he never seems to do anything?
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17:47<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: i'm afraid a dutch keyboard will make it even worse :p
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18:24<supermop>Samu: i cannot spot any missing locks in the image
18:29<Samu>i forgot to build them
18:35<supermop>your caption says you forgot some, but i dont see any slopes without locks
18:36<Samu>http://imgur.com/XPM8gr8
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18:51<@peter1138>Hmm, can pools have classes and inheritance and stuff?
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18:52<@peter1138>For docks, using RoadStop feels wrong, but I also don't want to reinvent the wheel.
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: i think all pool members must have the same size
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>so you could have subclasses, but they can't have new members
18:56<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know how virtual functions play into this
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19:28<Wolf01>'night
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19:48<Samu>hi
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