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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-03-22

---Logopened Wed Mar 22 00:00:35 2017
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04:54<Wolf01> Lèl
05:00<Samu>is it possible to have ships do 90 degrees, but not trains, in the same game?
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06:13<Samu>question, how do i separate a game setting?
06:13<Samu>i got this which affects both trains and ships
06:13<Samu>i want to separate it
06:13<Samu>pf.forbid_90_deg_trains and pf.forbid_90_deg_ships
06:14<Samu>how would i be able to convert from the old setting to the 2 new settings? I wanna get rid of the old
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06:40<@peter1138>i looked at that
06:40<@peter1138>and then i wondered why bother?
06:41<@peter1138>i don't think 90 degree bends for ships has the same consequences as for trains
06:41<@peter1138>so why not just strip it out for ships
06:42<Wolf01>Mmmmh, peter1138, to unlock bigger vehicles do I need to research them by luck? So far I analyzed at least 15 things and only unlocked dynamite...
06:42<@peter1138>i haven't got that far!
06:42<@peter1138>don't have a vehicle at all
06:43<Wolf01>I'm roaming around with a nice rover and recovering a lot of materials now
06:43<Wolf01>But it's limited in storage... and battery
06:44<Wolf01>Battery depleted = must wait for the day to recharge with solar panel
06:44<Samu>there are BIG ships
06:44<Samu>i dunno
06:46<Samu>i'd just get rid of 90 degrees for ships too, but i guess it's preferable to have an option to enable or disable
06:54<Samu>help me understand something
06:54<Samu>how am i renaming a variable
06:55<Samu>or get rid of a variable but re-use what they were for conversion
06:57<Samu>pf.forbid_90_deg would exist from savegame version 0 to 196, then from 197 it would be split into pf.forbid_90_deg_ships and pf.forbid_90_deg_trains, how am i doing this, need guidance
07:04<Wolf01>Oh, it seem I can attach at least one more chassis to the rover, without a seat to make a trailer
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08:33<@peter1138>Samu, i don't know off hand for settings.
08:33<@peter1138>Samu, that's partly why i figured it was unnecessary :p
08:34<@peter1138>forbidding 90 degree turns for trains stops them turning around at X-style crossing
08:35<@peter1138>ships can turn on the spot anyway
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08:49<Samu>just posted
08:49<Samu>had to fiddle with the pathfinders, hopefully I got them prepared to deal with 2 different settings now
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09:18<@peter1138>100KB !?!
09:22<@peter1138>Oh, language update.
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09:47<andythenorth>such Wednesday
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10:02<andythenorth>is game?
10:07<supermop>is tiny kitchens
10:08<supermop>must include diswasher
10:13<@peter1138>You're a wednesday.
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10:20<Samu>how does openttd guess that a setting from an old save belongs to the same on a new save
10:20<Samu>does the order they're placed in settings.ini matter?
10:20<Samu>I am surprised that it is converting correctly between old and new
10:21<Wolf01>Mmmh, I think I've made a huge mistake, I purchased Astroneer on xbox live, but all my friends which might purchase it will do it on steam
10:22<Wolf01>But I was too lazy to download it again...
10:22<Wolf01>I hope for dedicated servers in future...
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10:52<@peter1138>Yeah, I got it on steam.
10:52<@peter1138>What the heck is xbox live...
10:55<Wolf01>The microsoft hub for games
10:56<Wolf01>New games purchased on xbox live are also playable on xbox one (if they have that version too)
10:56<@peter1138>Yeah I do know what it is.
10:56<@peter1138>But nobody uses it.
10:56<@peter1138>Not unless they have one of those crappy Xbox thigns.
11:00<supermop>SICK BURN
11:00<Wolf01>TBH I'm sick of different stores licenses... I would like to purchase games indipendently from the store and just have a library to launch the games and find friends to play with (somebody said gamespy?)
11:02<andythenorth>Brownsville Turnaround On The Tex-Mex Border eh
11:03<supermop>andythenorth: no idea what you're talking about but i assume it is bad
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11:36<alluke>is there any way to search attached files at the forums?
11:37<alluke>id need to find one save game but no idea how to find it
11:39<alluke>i only know the related topic and poster and partial file name
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11:46<Samu>oops, i can buy 100% AI shares
11:47<Samu>in multiplayer that should be forbidden
11:47<alluke>nvm, kept clicking next page + cmd + f
11:47<alluke>found it on 74th page
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11:49<Samu>can AIs buy shares from other companies?
11:49<Samu>from other AIs, that is
11:51<@Alberth>in theory, yes
11:52<@Alberth>whether there is actually an API for it, I don't know
11:53<@Alberth>shares are kind of weird, they don't really have a place in the game
11:53<andythenorth>they are half-assed
11:53<@Alberth>they likely only exist because the original game had them
11:53<andythenorth>what’s the purpose of them>?
11:53<@Alberth>o/ andy
11:54<andythenorth>Railroad Tycoon 2 and 3, you had proper stock market
11:54<andythenorth>some scenarios, it was entirely a stock trading game
11:54<andythenorth>shorts, pump and dump, domino acquisitions, robbing peter to pay paul
11:54<andythenorth>lots of fun
11:55<@Alberth>you need to extend share concepts a lot to make it useful, I agree
11:55<andythenorth>ottd, the shares are so crippled they’re just wasting UI space
11:55<andythenorth>replace with a button ‘buy this company'
11:55<@Alberth>some devs may deeply disagree with that
11:56<@Alberth>out of authenticity point of view
11:58<andythenorth>maybe it’s time for the fork :)
11:58<andythenorth>OpenTTD 1 = TTD + stuff
11:58<andythenorth>OpenTTD 2 = NotTTD
11:58<andythenorth>then we can all fall out over what actually goes in OpenTTD 2
11:58<andythenorth>and nothing will ever ship
11:59<@peter1138>Come up with a coherent and useful plan...
11:59<@peter1138>But "make shares better" isn't one.
12:00<Samu>if i can't buy 100% shares of a human company, i shouldn't 100% buy an AI, at least in multiplayer
12:00<Samu>same rules
12:00<andythenorth>‘delete shares'
12:00<andythenorth>is a plan
12:00*andythenorth likes deleting
12:01<Samu>i might create yet another game setting for this, :(
12:01<andythenorth>delete timetables while we’re deleting also
12:01<andythenorth>rm [random]
12:02<Milek7>there isn't already a setting for disabling shares?
12:02<andythenorth>run some random mutations, see what’s best :P
12:02<@Alberth>Samu: but it was such a nice strategy in TTD
12:02<andythenorth>Milek7: yes
12:02<Samu>yes, the problem here is that you can buy AIs in multiplayer
12:02<@Alberth>how is that a problem?
12:03<Samu>should only buy up to 75%
12:03<andythenorth>purpose of shares is to buy the company
12:03<Samu>to have the same rules
12:04<Samu>treat the AI, like they're HU
12:04<@Alberth>any sane human will not buy an AI
12:04<@Alberth>as they perform worse
12:05<Samu>I bought an AI by mistake, thinking it would cap ay 75% t.t
12:14<Samu>if (!c->is_ai || c->is_ai && _networking) return cost; // We can not buy out a real company (temporarily). TODO: well, enable it obviously.
12:14<Samu>let's see if this is enough
12:15<@peter1138>But is your fast forward speed limited?
12:17<andythenorth>mine is :P
12:20<@Alberth>unlimited ff speed would much simpler to implement :p
12:23<Samu>this works, but the button doesn't gray out, must fix gui
12:30<@Alberth>comment suggests the problem is the other way around
12:31<Samu>i saw it :( bad comment
12:33<Samu> this->SetWidgetDisabledState(WID_C_BUY_SHARE, GetAmountOwnedBy(c, INVALID_OWNER) == 0 || /* Only 25% left to buy. If the company is human, disable buying it up.. TODO issues! */
12:33<Samu>what issues?
12:34<@Alberth>imagine what you have to do for taking over another human company
12:35<@Alberth>what should happen to the other player?
12:35<andythenorth>kick em out
12:35<andythenorth>‘you are no longer playing'
12:35<Samu>move to spectator, i guess
12:35<Samu>or move to the new company
12:36<andythenorth>the more interesting play is to add them to the other company
12:36<andythenorth>then they have to co-operate (or not) with the hostile takeover player
12:36<Samu>add another game setting then :p
12:37<andythenorth>why is infrastructure sharing?
12:37<@Alberth>I am quite sure the player taking over my company will see a sudden drop in funds :p
12:38<Samu>a setting which decides what to do when a company buys another, per company
12:38<@Alberth>world is shared by definition, I guess
12:38<Samu>or just a server setting
12:39<Samu>global variable , damn, i'm messing up
12:40<Samu>Company 1 buys Company 2
12:40<Samu>Company 1 has set that it allows company 2 to join company 1
12:41<Samu>Company 2 has set that it allows joining other company when being taken over
12:42<Samu>then forget about it
12:43<Samu> /* Only 25% left to buy. If the company is human or AI in multiplayer, disable buying it up.. TODO issues! */ (GetAmountOwnedBy(c, INVALID_OWNER) == 1 && (!c->is_ai || c->is_ai && _networking)) ||
12:44<Wolf01>Buying human companies is like merging them, the taken over has the same power of the buyer... I'm for moving the human in spectators, or open a UI to let him decide if wants to be moved in spectators or start a new company
12:46<Milek7>but maybe player/ai don't want to sell company
12:47<Milek7>shares shouldn't be first manually emitted by company?
12:47<Wolf01>Another UI to tell the player "player x wants to take over your company, do you want?"
12:47<Wolf01>Yup, but that will be too much realistic
12:47<Samu>too social
12:48<Samu>i'd have it previously set in the company properties
12:48<Samu>similar to how autorenew is done, per company, not per player
12:52<Samu>if (!c->is_ai || c->is_ai && _networking) return cost; // We can not buy out a real or AI company in multiplayer (temporarily). TODO: well, enable it obviously.
12:52<Samu>better comment
12:52<Samu>that "(temporarily)" has been how many years?
12:52<andythenorth>enough :)
12:52<Samu>feels out of place
12:53<Samu>with what I'm doing
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12:56<@Alberth>it's temporarily, until it's fixed
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13:01<andythenorth>all code is temporary
13:01<Samu>just posted
13:01<andythenorth>the idea that people might still play FIRS in 250 years time would be worse
13:03<supermop>andythenorth: that seems increasingly likely to me
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13:03<kanios666>hi everyone
13:03<@Alberth>hi hi
13:03<supermop>and in 250 years we will still be arguing over this or that change to the map array
13:04<@Alberth>lol :)
13:04<kanios666>im looking for a grf file newtown_415.grf
13:04<@Alberth>in 250 years, computers will probably decide that on their own
13:04<kanios666>maybe someone have it
13:04<kanios666>i cant find it
13:04<@Alberth>do you have an author?
13:04<@Alberth>tried google?
13:04<kanios666>i need it to north england map
13:05<kanios666>only ID of grf
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13:06<kanios666>there isnt info about author
13:07<@Alberth> ?
13:08<kanios666>i play on vpn with my cousin on version 1.2.0
13:09<@Alberth>woow, 1.2 :)
13:09<kanios666>he choose that version
13:09<kanios666>i dont know why
13:09<andythenorth>he likes the past :)
13:09<@Alberth>seems somewhat very old :)
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13:10<@Alberth> this is reported to work
13:11<kanios666>page cannot be found :(
13:12<kanios666>i cant download it
13:13<@Alberth>you could try contacting the owner of the site, orudge
13:13<kanios666>ill try
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13:15<@Alberth>or, try to find another scenario or a heightmap of northern england
13:15<@Alberth>likely several such maps exist
13:16<@Alberth>heightmap doesn't have towns and roads though
13:16<@Alberth>or at least none that exist in reality
13:17<@Alberth>do you know who created the scenario, you could try asking him as well
13:17<@Alberth>maybe he disappeared though
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13:26<Wolf01>There is no escape from destiny
13:41<@Alberth>'destiny' is underspecified, you never know whether you suceeded
13:42<Wolf01>... just like in my dream...
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14:34<@peter1138>Do you get funds when someone buys your shares?
14:35<@peter1138>Hmm, I can't even remember how they work. I suspect badly.
14:42<@Alberth>if you sell them after the company value raised, you get more money
14:42<@Alberth>them=shares of another company
14:42<Eddi|zuHause>shares are pointless and should be removed from the game
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14:44<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, i vaguely remember once trying that out, and it didn't seem to work
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>meaning buying some company's shares and then checking their bank balance whether it changed
14:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27818 trunk/src/lang/greek.txt (2017-03-22 19:45:40 +0100 )
14:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
14:45<@DorpsGek>greek: 36 changes by kyrm
14:46<Eddi|zuHause>also, companies valued at 2$ most of the time makes it useless even if it did work
14:47<Alkel_U3>that's really unfair considering the starting capital is a loan and not money from investors. I like how RRT series do it but that's perhaps too complex to be introduced into TT
14:47<andythenorth>given how easy it is to print money with pax, I’m not going to bother buying shares as a cash generation strategy :P
14:49<supermop>investor capital is sort of like a loan anyway
14:51<Eddi|zuHause>Alkel_U3: i always wished i could play RRT with shares disabled
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, there have been many suggestions of an improved share system, maybe even a few patches
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15:26<Samu>crap, i made a server that was supposedly hard for trains
15:26<Samu>but they build 2 engines
15:27<Samu>really hate this feature
15:29<Samu>i wanted players to plan their route better
15:29<Samu>not build a 2nd engine
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15:31<andythenorth>can’t beat the game :)
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15:39<Samu>gonna try remove this feature in some patch, wondering if it's easy or not
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17:55<Eddi|zuHause>if you can't beat them, make a training montage and try to beat them again towards the end of the movie
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18:55<@peter1138>oh that's better, i can see again
18:57<@peter1138>glasses were a bit muddy from mountain biking :p
18:59<Samu>I'm planning yet another game setting that disallows multi-engines on a single train
18:59<@peter1138>oh great
18:59<Samu>but i see a lot of newgrf code callback stuff in the way
19:00<@peter1138>pretty sure there was a setting for it
19:00<Wolf01>Good luck with articulated engines or multiheaded ones
19:01<Samu>that part is easy, the hard part for me is understanding what the heck are these callbacks
19:02<@peter1138>i wouldn't think you need to care about them
19:02<Samu>if (callback < 0xFD) error = GetGRFStringID(head->GetGRFID(), 0xD000 + callback);
19:02<Samu>english plz
19:03<Samu>if (callback >= 0x100) ErrorUnknownCallbackResult(head->GetGRFID(), CBID_TRAIN_ALLOW_WAGON_ATTACH, callback);
19:03<Wolf01>If the callback result is less than 0xFD then set the error value to the string taken from the grf at 0xD000 + callback value
19:04<Samu>oh, the grf provides the error message?
19:04<@peter1138>you don't need to care about any of that
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19:07<Samu>if (t->IsEngine()) return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_I_HATE_MULTI_ENGINE_TRAINS)
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19:56<Samu>STR_ERROR_CAN_T_MOVE_VEHICLE :{WHITE}Can't move vehicle... STR_ERROR_ATTACHING_ENGINE_NOT_ALLOWED :{WHITE}Attaching engine is not allowed
19:56<Samu>is this good english?
19:57<Samu>attaching engine or engines?
19:58<Samu>Attaching multiple engines are not allowed?
19:58<Samu>halp at englisho, ploz
19:59<ST2>"Attaching" is an action, so it's "is"
19:59<Samu>oki, thx
20:00<Samu>must nerf trains at all costs! :)
20:01<Samu>j/k, i'm adding a game setting for this
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20:19<Samu>more english helperino
20:19<Samu>STR_CONFIG_SETTING_ALLOW_MULTIPLE_TRAIN_ENGINES :Allow multiple train engines STR_CONFIG_SETTING_ALLOW_MULTIPLE_TRAIN_ENGINES_HELPTEXT :Permit attaching train engines to a train consist
20:19<Samu>or to other engines?
20:20<Samu>what's a consist anyway?
20:36<Samu>if (!_settings_game.vehicle.multi_train_engines && t->IsEngine()) return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_ATTACHING_ENGINE_NOT_ALLOWED);
20:44<Samu>it werks
20:54<Samu>TA DA!!
20:59<Samu>cyas goodnight
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---Logclosed Thu Mar 23 00:00:36 2017