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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-03-27

---Logopened Mon Mar 27 00:00:42 2017
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04:46<@peter1138>i don't need a lego cargo train do i?
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04:59<Wolf01>Sadly that's not what she said :(
05:00<Wolf01>Mmmh, looking for the CPC emulator I found I still have scout installed...
05:00<Wolf01>What piece of crap
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05:09<Wolf01>Mmmmh, I really don't want to type all the code by hand
05:10<Wolf01>Oh, autotype feature opened a textbox
05:29<Wolf01>Good, only 1 error so far
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06:05<Samu>wow, everytime the ship moves from a tile to another, it asks the pathfinder to chose track
06:06<Samu>for the vast majority of time, the path is still the same
06:06<andythenorth>ships are slow
06:06<andythenorth>the water tile might have changed
06:07<andythenorth>it’s inefficient eh?
06:07<Samu>i think so
06:09<Samu>i think it should be able to cache the path the first time it computes it
06:10<Samu>the next time it is computing it, it could look at the cache first, see if all the nodes are still valid
06:11<Samu>only if they're not, it would re-ask the pathfinder
06:12<Samu>at least from my observations, that's what I think it should be doing
06:12<Samu>but i'm no real programmer, i could be missing something obvious
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06:15<Wolf01>Nice, some buildings look like photoshopped, but sky and lights seem from an hdr photo
06:32<Samu>@calc 12 * 4096 * 4096
06:32<@DorpsGek>Samu: 201326592
06:32<Samu>that is many nodes
06:34<Samu>max_search_nodes = 1000000
06:34<Samu>caps at this value :(
06:44<andythenorth>this one is badass
06:49<dlite>Samu: couple of obvious things: If path is not computed at every tile, then the ship should at least check at minimum if the next tile in path is free to be moved to, if not, then compute new path
06:49<dlite>this would lead to inefficient re-pathing if something changes midway, as the ship would first try original path and only then figure out a new, though i admit this is quite rare
06:50<dlite>also, ship could always just check every now and then if the whole path it has is valid, this should be relatively quick compared to running whole pathfinder algorithm
06:51<@peter1138>Samu, yeah, that's why ship pathfinding kills performance
06:52<@peter1138>It should be possible to cache a path, and invalidate it if water is changed
06:52<Samu>just tested 1000000 nodes, it is not enough to find a ship depot on the opposite corner of a 4096x4096 map :(
06:53<Samu>and it stalls soooo much it's not worth it
06:53<@peter1138>this is partly why pbs for trains is not the performance hog that people claim. that reserved path is used instead of pathfinding
06:53<andythenorth>reserved ship paths
06:53<@peter1138>could do!
06:54<@peter1138>need to stop ships from crashing into each other
06:54<andythenorth>apply rule of the sea
06:54<andythenorth>don’t go on reserved tiles
06:54<andythenorth>problem solved
06:54<@peter1138>that might even work :p
06:54<andythenorth>no need for collision detection or crap
06:54<@peter1138>just reserve say a dozen tiles ahead
06:54<andythenorth>which is handy when we don’t have ship sizes
06:54<@peter1138>when it gets to the end, pathfind again
06:55*andythenorth looks forward to ships going round in circles near an isthums :)
06:55<andythenorth>how close can a ship follow another ship?
06:57<dlite>implement path-finding as a gpu-shader on OpenCL to take the load out of the poor cpu
06:59<@peter1138>yeah no
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07:00<andythenorth>does that make 1-tile canals one way?
07:01<@peter1138>andythenorth, hmm, yeah, 12 tiles may be too much, but 2 tiles wouldn't give much benefit.
07:01<andythenorth>ha we could do it like railroad tycoon
07:01<@peter1138>andythenorth, yeah it would
07:01<@peter1138>how did that do it?
07:01<andythenorth>make it so ships can pass through each other as long as one is stopped
07:01<andythenorth>in RT 3, one train had to yield
07:01<andythenorth>so it would unreserve at that point
07:02<@peter1138>damn it, i'm at work and now i want to implement this :p
07:02<@peter1138>also multistop docks
07:02<@peter1138>or rather
07:02<@peter1138>place dock tiles the same way as station tiles
07:02<@peter1138>and then any water next to a dock tile is dockable
07:03<@peter1138>unnecessary of course
07:03<andythenorth>unnecessary but much better
07:04<@peter1138>maybe if the water tile next to the dock tile has a special flag, then it would be better for pathfinding
07:04<@peter1138>heck could even just be a station tile itself
07:05<@peter1138>someone archive this convo please, for 5 years time when i decide to revisit it
07:06<andythenorth>I’ll put it on the github :P
07:07<@peter1138>"rivers have a flow direction, more powerful ships go faster upstream"
07:07<@peter1138>^ that's why samu's patches for rivers and locks are a bit weird
07:08<@peter1138>i mean, river boats exist
07:08<@peter1138>but locks aren't usually used to block a river
07:09<andythenorth>I think samu’s attempt to only generate lockable rivers is good
07:10<@peter1138>and wider rivers, though that didn't work too well in the pics :)
07:10<@peter1138>it's a good aim though
07:11<andythenorth>if someone teaches the pathfinder to go diagonally, I’ll draw the sprites
07:11<andythenorth>I did draw some, but I had a rage quit about it
07:11<andythenorth>then deleted them as a kind of door-slam-flounce
07:12<@peter1138>oh for rivers
07:12<@peter1138>i may have a patch for it
07:12<@peter1138>doubt it
07:12<andythenorth>nicely played
07:12<@peter1138>that would've been a manually placed one i guess
07:12<andythenorth>I particularly like how the river ignores gravity in that example
07:13<@peter1138>yes yes
07:13<@peter1138>also the broken graphics on the last slope
07:13<@peter1138>although i like the winding bit and the double thick curve
07:13<andythenorth>you’re enlarging the S-bends?
07:13<@peter1138>i did there
07:13<andythenorth>like a geography GCSE project
07:14<@peter1138>i assume i placed it all by hand
07:14*andythenorth did a lot of river traversing, in wellies
07:14<@peter1138>pic is from 2009
07:15<@peter1138>half-size gui sprites
07:15<@peter1138>don't think that ever made it
07:16<@peter1138>why did i add joystick support?
07:18<@peter1138>That one looks shopped
07:19<andythenorth>it is a painting with crayons
07:19<@peter1138>wonder if i still have the patch for halftile rivers
07:21<@peter1138>Seems not.
07:24<andythenorth>also this
07:25<andythenorth>eh this one’s pretty nice though
07:25*andythenorth cba to build shiny stations any more
07:25<@peter1138>that's one way to do it
07:25<@peter1138>yeah me neither
07:27<@peter1138>problem with my dock plan is savegame conversion ;(
07:28<@peter1138>hmm, probably not insurmountable
07:28<andythenorth>fork it!
07:28*andythenorth could get boring saying that
07:29<andythenorth>I have nothing :P
07:30<@peter1138>ok, some bits in m3 can be used to store ship path reservation
07:31<@peter1138>dunno if the docking part should be MP_WATER or MP_STATION. if it's MP_WATER then things like river/canal state still work.
07:33<andythenorth>it doesn’t need any newgrf crap, right? It’s just a tile;
07:33<andythenorth>or does it need a bouy or something on it?
07:34<@peter1138>no it's just a blank water tile that ships stop on
07:34<@peter1138>my previous attempts all failed because the dockable tile wasn't actually a thing
07:34<@peter1138>so it has to be looked up all the time from neighbouring tiles
07:45<andythenorth>can it show animated seagulls? o_O
08:01<Wolf01>peter1138, that's why I failed with the multitile docks too :(
08:13<Wolf01>frosch is right also, we'll need a generic station type, accessible from every gui, and not just train station
08:13<@peter1138>not fussed about gui :D
08:14<@peter1138>i had a patch for docks that mostly worked, it was the one that abused roadstops to list the dockable tiles
08:14<@peter1138>and each pathfinder call had to iterate the roadstop list to calculate the dockable location
08:14<@peter1138>animated seagulls. well.
08:15<@peter1138>animated segfaults are more likely
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08:18<andythenorth>so instead of docks, we get docking points?
08:18<andythenorth>single tile, built on water?
08:19*andythenorth was hoping docks would die :D
08:19<andythenorth>dunno why
08:20<@peter1138>well that may be possible but not immediately what i'm thinking
08:21<@peter1138>docking points are automatically placed at water adjacent to dock tiles
08:21<@peter1138>initially that'll be adjacent to the existing dock layout
08:21<@peter1138>but could easily be a single tile, or a tile on water
08:22<@peter1138>this gives you multiple docking points, without any pathfinder trickery needed to find them
08:24<@peter1138>no external arrays as it's on the map
08:24<andythenorth>with a seagull
08:25<Wolf01>You could mark those tiles with a buoy or... seagulls
08:25<@peter1138>Wolf01, i'm more thinking of them being implicit tiles
08:26<@peter1138>but i suppose custom graphics are not impossible
08:27<@peter1138>Can I fix broken strings these days?
08:27<Wolf01>Could those tiles allow to be modified at any time? Terraforming, adding new station parts over water
08:28<@peter1138>Wolf01, yes they would be treated as water tiles
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09:08<Samu>broken down vehicles still call the pathfinder
09:08<Samu>do they really have to?, i mean they're basically stopped
09:16<@peter1138>probably shouldn't if they're stopped
09:20<Wolf01>Mmmh, I should trim my beard :/
09:25<@peter1138>it's better looking homeless
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10:02<Wolf01>I should finish that patch for NRT but I don't even know what it should do exactly
10:03<@peter1138>merge it
10:03<Wolf01>Nah, it's broken now
10:04<Wolf01>Or at least it does the right thing at the wrong place
10:06<Wolf01>Like... disabling the construction of roadstops and depots because no vehicle is defined for that roadtype, but the roadtype is compatible with others, so vehicles for it exist anyway
10:19<supermop>Wolf01: which patch?
10:20<Wolf01>Rework of check to build roadtype infrastructures
10:21<Wolf01> <- exactly this part
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10:52<@Alberth>hi hi
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11:06<Wolf01>Mmmh, shouldn't the check for building infrastructures check on existing vehicles first and then on possible new ones?
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11:11<@Alberth>I guess you want both checks, order isn't very relevant, as it's not likely a user will try to overbuild on a vehicle, imho
11:12<@Alberth>unless you have other infrastructure in mind than I have :p
11:12<crem>/msg nickserv identify <`5hb6��!8�Z�ͭd=ݔ$�$Etdl*ܲ��o�s�^�/��\���f��d+�Z:=Ŏ�!ǿ��(�W�b�zgh������Kx*�W���(gpg�fҧӓ���<��
11:13<Wolf01>Nice password
11:13<crem>already changed
11:13<Wolf01>I should start to put arabic chars too
11:14<Wolf01>Maybe even something like... щ(ಥДಥщ)
11:15<@Alberth>"please tell password" "I can't, but I can draw it for you"
11:17<Wolf01>Ok, 55 minutes of work even today and I fixed part of the problem
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11:49<marrenarre>Hi. Is there any way to run an AI on a server as a client? What I mean is, can I connect to a server and have the game play for me based on an AI.
11:49<Wolf01>andythenorth, peter1138, about ship pathfinding iirc somebody once tried to make it with super cells like map chunks, let's say 32x32, looking first if the bodies of water were connected so it could reach the destination, then for the exact path it suggested something like pbs but only in the 32x32 cell and just to reach the exit pont
11:51<Wolf01>marrenarre, usually AIs aren't really multiplayer safe, but there might be some exceptions
11:51<marrenarre>Wolf01: Why not?
11:52<@planetmaker>marrenarre, no, AIs are a server-side extension. As client connecting to a server you cannot run an AI which plays for you
11:53<marrenarre>planetmaker: So I would have to modify the game to do that? Is there any way to script my gameplay without modifying the game?
11:53<@planetmaker>no, I don't think there is a script interface for the client-side
11:54<@peter1138>Wolf01, why would it desync?
11:54<@planetmaker>the usual argument against that is "why have the game play itself?"
11:54<@planetmaker>desyncs with AI are or should be no issue
11:54<@peter1138>Why not?
11:55<@peter1138>Might be a nice competition
11:56<@peter1138>Damn it, my belt is losing inches but I'm still not losing weight :S
11:56<V453000>sounds like a bug
11:56<V453000>belt losing inches
11:57<Wolf01><peter1138> Wolf01, why would it desync? <- in fact, it shouldn't
11:58<Wolf01>Eh, when I tried to do some gym I even gained some weight... which I dropped again when I finished the subscription... I have a black hole in my stomach
12:04<marrenarre>planetmaker: Okay, thank you.
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12:16<@Alberth> <-- Wolf01? / andythenorth / peter1138 ship pathfinding
12:18<@Alberth>JPS may outperform it, as that add nodes only at 'interesting' points, and never in the middle of sea
12:19<@Alberth>hmm, except for back-navigation, so not entirely never
12:35<andythenorth>coffee estate is tricky
12:35<Wolf01>Don't forget a civet farm
12:36<Wolf01>0.1t/year of coffee production
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12:51<andythenorth>I improved vineyard yesterday
12:52<andythenorth>coffee plantation should be like that, but with trees also
12:54<andythenorth>coffee bushes + tree cover
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12:55<@Alberth>like the vineyard, but an open space with trees near the house?
12:56<@Alberth>more different is perhaps better, darker green for the coffee-'vine' ?
12:57<@Alberth>or the colour of the small tree in the coffee-estate
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13:02<@peter1138>^ adds missing colour codes in translations
13:03<andythenorth>something like this, plus trees
13:04<supermop>andythenorth: sometimes they use nets
13:04<supermop>for shade
13:10<@Alberth>peter1138: bit tricky that, but I guess translators will fix it again if it is wrong
13:12<TrueBrain>planetmaker: tnx for email
13:12<TrueBrain>totally and fully forgot we run Atlassian software
13:15<@peter1138>Alberth, yeah... using --word-diff at least shows nothing in the translation itself is changed
13:16<@peter1138>although it adds "[- -]" and "{+ +}" to show changes
13:16<@peter1138>which also makes it harder to grok :p
13:19<andythenorth>kind of a wall of green
13:19<andythenorth>looks realistic
13:19<andythenorth>but eh
13:20<andythenorth>basically I like it, but need to try other trees
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13:59<TrueBrain>there will not be any nightly today (in case anyone was waiting for one)
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14:36<@peter1138>ooh it crashed
14:37<TrueBrain>who did?
14:38<@peter1138>Couldn't get registers: No such process.
14:38<@peter1138>Well, that's less useful ;(
14:48<andythenorth>probably that will do
14:48<andythenorth>or is this one actually better?
14:48<@Alberth>a bit too many big trees, not?
14:49<andythenorth>I think so
14:50<@Alberth>I like it better than the first attempt
14:50<@Alberth>that one is so flat, so similar to the vine yard
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14:55<@peter1138>Well that was weird.
14:55<@peter1138>Could not debug it. Could not close debugger. Could not kill openttd.
14:55<@peter1138>Could not cleanly reboot...
14:59<@peter1138>On the other hand, multiple docks was working for a second ::p
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15:03<andythenorth>Alberth: #2 is too flat?
15:03<andythenorth>lo Pikka
15:03<andythenorth>it appears in same economy as vineyard, so it needs to look different :)
15:04<Pikka>oh hello
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15:06<Pikka>whatever happened to notfields
15:07<andythenorth>it’s notdone
15:12<@Alberth>I meant the "coffee_estate_improved.png" was too flat. Still a lot of trees on this one as well, but maybe it's better, it looks more different that way
15:13<@Alberth>o/ pikka
15:13*andythenorth has ideas
15:13<@Alberth>oh dear :p
15:14<@Alberth>hopefully not notideas :p
15:14<@Alberth>some sort of fence could make it look different too
15:14<@Alberth>or some earth wall-ish
15:14<andythenorth>hmm fences
15:15<Pikka>hmm ideas
15:17<andythenorth>what ho Pikka ?
15:17<andythenorth>is it things?
15:19<Pikka>not really sure yet
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15:42<@peter1138>netsplit eh
15:42<andythenorth>I blame the seagulls
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15:42-!-nekomaster is "purple" on #openttd
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15:44<andythenorth>I blame nekomaster for that
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15:44<andythenorth>you broke the internet nekomaster
15:44<nekomaster>the netsplit?
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15:51<+glx>wow chan buffer filled with netsplits join/leave
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15:57<nekomaster>Are things fixed now ._.
15:57<nekomaster>is IRC Armageddon over?
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16:24-!-mode/#openttd [+o orudge`] by ChanServ
16:26<Wolf01>Wow, netsplotfest?
16:32<@peter1138>hmm, why is the intro game loaded twice?
16:32<Wolf01>'coz is cool
16:35<frosch123>peter1138: before grf scan and after grf scan
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16:35-!-gelignite is "gelignite" on #openttd #openttdcoop.devzone
16:35<frosch123>to activate static grfs or something
16:36<@peter1138>such a silly concept
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16:37<Wolf01>frosch123, I tried to fix the build infrastructure check today, I actually fixed it so it behave like the default NRT but last time you said about a lot of cases missing
16:37<frosch123>that's long ago :p
16:37<frosch123>a month or so
16:38<frosch123>i guess there is stuff on paste
16:38<Wolf01>Yes, that's implemented, but only that one, I should figure out the missing cases
16:44<@peter1138>hmm, right, oil rigs...
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16:56<Samu>bah, i made ships able to service on competitor ship depots, i don't want this
16:58<Wolf01>Add a d->owner == _local_company
16:58<@peter1138>staring at yapf
16:58<@peter1138>still no idea how it works
16:58<@peter1138>templates, structs, typedefs...
16:59<Wolf01>Maybe I could understand that, I do weird stuff
17:01<@peter1138>hmm, multiple inheritance
17:02<Wolf01>That's my kind of stuff
17:02<Samu>i need a way to make yapf test vehicle owner is the same as the tile owner at the destination
17:05<Wolf01>Way -> ==
17:05<+michi_cc>peter1138: The template and inheritance stuff is kinda misleading. Overall, it is simply some kind of object composition (which I'm sure has some fancy pattern name :P).
17:05<@peter1138>michi_cc, yup
17:05<Samu>Severity Code Description Project File Line Suppression State Error C2065 '_local_company': undeclared identifier openttd D:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\pathfinder\yapf\yapf_ship.cpp 246
17:05<@peter1138>michi_cc, thing is i spend an hour figuring it out
17:05<@peter1138>then never have to touch it
17:05<@peter1138>so when i look again, i've no idea
17:06<Wolf01>You should have seen my html forms framework... somefields had 6 levels of inheritance
17:06<@peter1138>i do c#, no multiple inheritance
17:06<+michi_cc>peter1138: For each kind of pathfinder, combine an origin provider, an destination provider, a cost function, and a node follow, spice up with a generic A* base and voila, YAPF is born :)
17:08<@peter1138>the weird naming and code style doesn't help :)
17:08<@peter1138>m_ isn't used anywhere else
17:17<Samu>i have a problem, yapf destination tile doesn't have tile owner, hap
17:17<Samu>looks like ship depots are very unique, in that vehicles of any companies can go into
17:18<Samu>but not actually stop to service on there
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17:20<@peter1138>if you have the dest tile you can get the owner
17:22<Samu>i have the dest tile, but v->owner isn't being accepted :(
17:23-!-UD98 is now known as Tenu
17:25<Samu>bool bDest = IsShipDepotTile(n.m_segment_last_tile) && IsTileOwner(n.m_segment_last_tile, v->owner) && GetShipDepotPart(n.m_segment_last_tile) == DEPOT_PART_NORTH;
17:26<Samu>'v': undeclared identifier
17:27<@peter1138>TILE_ADD TileIndexDiffC
17:28<@peter1138>old macros ;(
17:28<Wolf01>I remember the old macros
17:29<@peter1138>That's still used.
17:30<Wolf01>There is also BEGIN_TILE_LOOP somewhere or it was definitely removed? XD
17:31-!-Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:32<@peter1138>That got replaced with TileArea or something like that.
17:33<Wolf01>It was weird somewhat, the END_TILE_LOOP was "}}" IIRC
17:33<@peter1138>well, not so fun.
17:33<@peter1138>yeah, annoying macros
17:34<Wolf01>At least now is more resembling a custom construct
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17:36<@peter1138>I think TileArea was something I created originally for newgrf stations
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>isn't that what iterators are for?
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>not that i would have any clue how an iterator looks in C++
17:38<@peter1138>Good to see code from 2004 still lying around
17:39<@peter1138>^efaeb27 station_cmd.c (truelight 2004-08-09 17:04:08 +0000 196) #define M(x) ((x) - STR_SV_STNAME)
17:39<@peter1138>that's a good'un
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>wow i have not read that name in ages
17:40<@peter1138>Yeah, I wonder whatever happened to him...
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>@seen truelight
17:40<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: I have not seen truelight.
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17:41-!-Compu is "Compu" on #help #openttd #openttdcoop.stable #openttdcoop #/r/openttd
17:41<Wolf01>Bah, useless bot... parse old logs :P
17:41<@peter1138>nice that git knows about moving files around and renaming...
17:42<Wolf01>Mmmh, I only have logs from 2009 in this machine
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17:50<Samu>looks like i got this
17:50<Samu>bool bDest = IsShipDepotTile(n.m_segment_last_tile) && IsTileOwner(n.m_segment_last_tile, Yapf().GetVehicle()->owner) && GetShipDepotPart(n.m_segment_last_tile) == DEPOT_PART_NORTH;
17:51<Samu>let's see
17:52<supermop>hmm recruited wants to call me about job i applied for that i am 99% sure i cannot get
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>and why do you apply for jobs you're 99% sure you can't get?
17:53<supermop>that's the problem with recruiters instead of applying directly with the employer. Employer will take one glance, know they do do want to hire you, and then not waste any of your time
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17:54<supermop>recruiter has noting else to do all day but throw huge numbers of candidates at jobs
17:54<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: not seriously looking for new jobs just yet, so just for warm up
17:54<Samu>yep, it's heading to the correct company depot now
17:55<Samu>not the competitor's
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>well, i wouldn't know how that works...
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>i didn't technically "apply" for my job
17:55<supermop>also apply to 200 jobs that i have a 1% chance of getting, and maybe i get two offers to choose from
17:55<Wolf01>supermop, at least you have that 1% of chance
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>nor my previous job
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17:56<supermop>Wolf01: may be less - i am probably a bit under-qualified, and according to linked in, there are already 300 applicants
17:56<supermop>also linked in job listing are mostly a joke
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know how linked in works
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>and i have no intention of finding out any time soon
17:59<supermop>vast majority of hires do not come from there, or company already has someone in mind, but need to interview a few more people just to be sure
17:59<Wolf01>Here they look for people under 30 to hire as apprentice, also I'm already qualified (even if I don't have all the knowledge) for every possible IT job, because that's how it works in Shitaly, it doesn't matter if you repaired printers or you were a developer... you have the same qualify, so you can't be an apprentice anymore
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not entirely sure, but apparently the job i got was already open for like a year, and they didn't find any applicants
18:00<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r27832 /trunk/src/lang (21 files) (2017-03-28 00:00:45 +0200 )
18:00<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Missing or incorrect colour codes in translations
18:01<Wolf01>Oh, 2 jobs ago I was hired because other applicants didn't even know the difference from a domain address and email address
18:01<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: i find it pretty useless, but its the kind of thing where it is looks weird if you don't have a profile
18:02<supermop>i've never actually got a job from it
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>i think we live in completely different worlds :p
18:05<nekomaster>I konw theres a differance between a domain address and email... but what is a domain address?
18:05<@peter1138>I do. I'm still in the same job I was in when I started on OpenTTD.
18:05<nekomaster>something to do with networking?
18:05<@peter1138>Even my boss asks me why I am still there :p
18:05<Wolf01>nekomaster = email address, = domain address, com = 1st level domain
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>my boss assumes i'll stay with the company for the next 40 years
18:06<nekomaster>oh yeah
18:06<nekomaster>I am a derp
18:06<@peter1138>we normally just call them "domains"
18:07<Wolf01>We are strange people
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>possibly a domain name
18:07<nekomaster>weird thing is how and both goto the same addresses that use them but are considered different emails
18:08<nekomaster>Example : or
18:08<nekomaster>(those aren't real emails, so dont try emailing owen at them)
18:08<Wolf01>Do you know you own also
18:08<Wolf01>Also Ow.en@ Owe.n@
18:08<Wolf01>Or even o.w.e.n@
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>nekomaster: the reason for that is that some random guy registered "gmail" as a trademark in germany, before google could
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>nekomaster: so in germany, google had to establish "googlemail" as a replacement
18:09-!-bwn [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:12<nekomaster>I actually registered my own email twice with dropbox just so I could recommend my 2nd email for dropbox and get 500MB more space on my Main dropbox
18:12<@peter1138>My dropbox is massive somehow
18:12<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't used my dropbox in ages
18:13<nekomaster>if you link your dropbox with a phone, you get like 50GB of storage I think
18:13<nekomaster>or some large amount
18:13<Wolf01>I use it only for my lego stuff
18:13<@peter1138>Ah it was at one point.
18:13<@peter1138>It's 5.2GB which is bigger than the default.
18:13<nekomaster>I guess they do that so that if your on a phone you're going to use dropbox to back up your phone data
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18:14<nekomaster>I have 4.3GB used out of 53.38GB total space on my dropbox
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>i only used dropbox because some guy at university shared some files i needed
18:14<nekomaster>I use dropbox to store my OpenTTD projects
18:14<nekomaster>it also gives me a nice stable location to link IMages from
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>wouldn't a github or something be more fitting?
18:15<nekomaster>I don't feel like going through the trouble of setting all that up
18:15<nekomaster>and I'm a one man team
18:15<@peter1138>Imagine if we'd had git from the start of ottd
18:15<@peter1138>All my dead patches would be... dead branches :p
18:16<supermop>linked in seems to have a lot of trouble understanding my industry
18:16<supermop>and keeps suggesting totally unrelated jobs
18:16<nekomaster>Well I store my GRF, Heightmaps and Scenarios in dropbox and work out of my local dropbox folder in Windows
18:16<nekomaster>even when I compile a new GRF dropbox syncs it quickly
18:17<supermop>like in the same batch of recomendations, it will suggest to apply to be a senior architect, a graphic designer, a highly specialized civil engineer, and some kind of business strategy consultant
18:17<supermop>as it thinks these are all basically design
18:18<Eddi|zuHause>sounds close enough :p
18:19<supermop>not to mention all the IT jobs that now have 'architect' in the title
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like the kind of jobs a person with good charisma and people skills would go through, without the other people noticing in time that he is completely clueless about the actual job
18:19<nekomaster>Doing to design a building out of ethernet cables and server racks?
18:20<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: i am pretty clueless about most jobs, but i do a decent job talking with strangers, so maybe i should give it a shot
18:20<nekomaster>after I go back to school for Grade 12 math to upgrade, I would prefer to get a job in retail again
18:20<nekomaster>Preferably with electronics or computers
18:20<supermop>fool my way into becoming the CEO of Prada or something
18:21<supermop>once you make it to CEO, probably less of a problem if you have no idea or interest in what your company does
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: well, you should not stick around a job for too long
18:22<supermop>i generally stay in jobs too long
18:23<supermop>and usually work in small companies where there is no real path to promotion or pay raises
18:23<Wolf01>I would like to stay in a job enough to be independent
18:23<Eddi|zuHause>i've recently seen one of those "motivational" calendars which had the phrase "it doesn't suffice to have no clue. you also have to be the boss"
18:23<Wolf01>Which means... 20 years or so
18:24<supermop>Wolf01: found the company
18:25<Wolf01>I would like to get a job about R&D... research and destroy
18:26<supermop>i think there are still some italian defense contractors
18:26<nekomaster>What if there was a company that hired people just to work at other jobs and fuck shit up
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>there was a guy a few years ago, who was caught outsourcing all his work to india and go on vacation for the difference in salary
18:28<Wolf01>nekomaster, those are called temp agencies
18:28<nekomaster>In india, who does techsupport for them?
18:28<nekomaster>the chinese?
18:28<nekomaster>Moon men?
18:28<Eddi|zuHause>moon meat miners?
18:29<nekomaster>"Hello, you have reached Smell Tek Support, how may I help you?"
18:29<Eddi|zuHause>tech support in india is probably more common for english-speaking countries anyway
18:30<nekomaster>Weird thing is that I hear a lot of people saying shit about Indian tech support but I've had good experiences with Bell Canada's support
18:30<Wolf01>Indeed, we (ab)use Romany and/or Albany
18:30<nekomaster>the only thing that sucks sometimes is when their microphone is too low
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>possibly german tech support sits in eastern europe
18:32<Samu>just posted
18:32<Samu>it's ugly
18:32<nekomaster>I hate the flooring in my apartment
18:32<Samu>i don't know better, i'm surprised i made it that far
18:32<Eddi|zuHause>where many people learn german as second or third language
18:32<nekomaster>Parquet flooring always comes up after a few years of rough use
18:33<nekomaster>so many tiles are missing around my desk that my computer chair gets stuck
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>ever heard of carpets?
18:34<nekomaster>Too much money and not really allowed in rentals
18:34<nekomaster>you can't really change up the place in rental units in canada
18:34<nekomaster>Its considered "damage"
18:35<nekomaster>Someone in my building moved out about a year ago after having painted their apartment and they had to pay 500 bucks in damges to have the place repainted
18:35<nekomaster>BUddy did a much better paint job then these apartments usually have and when they repainted the apartment it went back to being shittier 1 coating of paint
18:35<Wolf01>But you are free to destroy your parquet
18:35<Eddi|zuHause>uhm, don't you have to pay for repainting anyway after like 5 years?
18:35<nekomaster>We'll probably have to pay for that even though I didn't do it on purpose
18:36<Samu>where's a yapf expert?
18:36<Wolf01>Samu, noone is
18:36<Samu>or npf expert, opf expert, needs work on it
18:36<Wolf01>We told you many times
18:36<nekomaster>Pretty sure most landlords dont repaint apartments while the tenent lives in the unit
18:36<Samu>ok :( t.t
18:36<nekomaster>at least not in Canada
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>no, the tenant is responsible for that
18:37<Wolf01>But if you ask your landlord for repairs he should do it or let you do it
18:37<nekomaster>Here in Canada they want you to file a request
18:37<nekomaster>even if your licensed if you fuck up and cause damages your liable
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, landlord is responsible for repairs, and tenant is responsible that the place looks new after he moves out
18:38<Wolf01>Then do it, you will have to pay anyway, show yourself as one which cares
18:38<nekomaster>Hell when we had a major issue with our drains backing up being on the first floor, we almost got a fine for using drain cleaner because "it might damage the pipes"
18:38<nekomaster>at leeast we didn't have to pay the plumbers to come in and snake our drains out
18:40<nekomaster>If you rent in Canada, be prepared for American level stupidity
18:41<Wolf01>If you rent in Shitaly be prepared for literally everything
18:42<nekomaster>Then again I guess it could be worse, I could live in a rat and/or roach infested building, or I could live in a country where my apartment could either fall apart with the slightest jolt
18:42<Wolf01>Specially if you have neighbors which still use gas tanks instead of proper gas lines
18:42<nekomaster>or get bombed
18:42<nekomaster>I think its illegal to use gas in apartment buildings in most parts of Canada
18:43<nekomaster>its even illegal to use Gas/Propane BBQ's on your own balcony in an apartment building
18:43<Wolf01>Here is the normality, and I agree it should be illegal
18:43<Wolf01>But the rule here is "it's not your business, gtfo, and don't dare to call the cops"
18:43<nekomaster>I wish we could maybe afford to rent a townhouse (not like the row houses you get in Europe/UK) so we could have a bit of a yard to have a BBQ and store our bikes in
18:44<nekomaster>Here in Canada its more like "It might be your buisness but the cops wont do much and filing complaints barely does much either"
18:44<nekomaster>So pretty much live with it or leave
18:45<Samu>so many typos
18:45<Samu>is my topic clear enough?
18:47<Wolf01><nekomaster> So pretty much live with it or leave <- same here, but I would like to add "or die"
18:48<nekomaster>depending on where you live in Canada, you might get hurt if you bother with the wrong neighbours
18:49<nekomaster>Another thing, I would love to get out of this building
18:49<nekomaster>A couple of weeks ago we had the POlice and SWAT all over this building
18:49<nekomaster>Probably a bunch of Drug busts
18:59<+glx>[00:19:39] <nekomaster> Doing to design a building out of ethernet cables and server racks? <--
19:00<nekomaster>Looks like a giant Switch or rack full of switches
19:05<nekomaster>i need to draw something like that
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---Logclosed Tue Mar 28 00:00:43 2017