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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-03-29

---Logopened Wed Mar 29 00:00:45 2017
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05:17<Samu>hi
05:19<crem>hi Samu!
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05:43<Wolf01>o/
05:45<crem>\o
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06:31<Wolf01>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=49867&start=340#p1184561 nice, really nice
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06:33<Wolf01>BTW, I'm going to redesign the toolbar switch, it's too limited to have just 2 toolbars on low res...
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06:41<@peter1138>ok
06:41<@peter1138>i see two toolbars on the left & right in some pictures
06:43<Wolf01>https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=192498 before it was like that
06:44<crem>That's not lowres.
06:44<crem>320x200 is!
06:44<@peter1138>yeah he means small screens
06:45<@peter1138>funny that juanjo has a patch to make all the icons be text strings
06:45<crem>Like smartwatch screen?
06:45<@peter1138>which is what we had originally but moved away from :p
06:45<@peter1138>like smartphone screens
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07:06<Wolf01>Yeah, game set as low res, not display
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07:14<@peter1138>what setting is that?
07:19<Wolf01>Fullscreen?
07:20<UncleCJ>Nice long lunch with OpenTTD between hard work sessions :-) I noticed the version of the Stockholm scenario I loaded used Windows backslashes in some path, anyone familiar with how that ingame content is updated/fixed?
07:25<@peter1138>switching to fullscreen has a low res detection?
07:25<Wolf01>You can change the rendered resolution instead of the window size
07:26<Wolf01>For example I can nicely play with 1152x864 to see things a bit bigger without distorting all the graphics :P
07:27<Wolf01>Or I can just move my head towards the screen
07:27<@peter1138>i think there's cross-conversation here
07:28<@peter1138>i was talking about the 2 vertical toolbars
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07:29<Wolf01>That's just another arrangement
07:29<Wolf01>With some more buttons added for DEL and CTRL
07:30<@peter1138>yeah but is it in openttd or some other patch?
07:30<Wolf01>It still have the same problem of the vanilla toolbar on small screen/small window/low res setting
07:30<Wolf01>Android branch
07:30<@peter1138>right
07:31<@peter1138>so that is what causes the 2 toolbars
07:31<@peter1138>not "game set as low res" which it seemed you were saying
07:31<@peter1138>and indeed that 1024x768 is not low res
07:31<Wolf01>I was talking about the 2nd toolbar switch (the button with the 2 arrows)
07:31<@peter1138>what is this world coming to :(
07:32<@peter1138>you were but then posted the android pic :p
07:32<@peter1138>i should get to work
07:32<Samu>i didn't know i could stack overlapping trackdirs
07:32<@peter1138>stack?
07:32<Samu>yah
07:32<@peter1138>what do you mean/
07:33<Wolf01>Blow up reservations
07:33<Samu>direction X NE and directo X SW
07:33<Samu>i can stack both, and i get a weird trackdir
07:33<Samu>direction X NE SW kind of crap
07:33<Samu>but it works
07:34<Samu>it's like the ship can move in both directions for pathfinding purposes, but it really doesn't
07:35<Samu>but this makes it simple, i don't need to use pathfind twice
07:35<Samu>wish I had known this first
07:37<Samu>not using pathfind twice really saves cpu resources
07:37<Wolf01>BTW, the gui I showed is good for small screen/small window/low res setting, at least you won't get a lot of overlapping buttons
07:38<Samu>this also means I don't need a CYapfOriginTileTwoWayT, only the CYapfOriginTileT
07:38<Wolf01>And one of the 2 can be fixed with base functions, while the other one changes with the switch
07:38<Samu>this "TwoWay" either was misleading me, or i misunderstood its purpose
07:39<Wolf01>While now the switch changes the whole toolbar and the left part arrangement is just repeated
07:40<Wolf01>I was planning to change the switch button with a 2 left-right buttons and switch between more toolbars arrangements, not just 2
07:43<Samu>ah, they're trackdirbits, not trackdir
07:43<Samu>but still... weird that I can do that
07:46<Samu>i also learned a few more things, i don't need to edit yapf_node.ship.hpp at all
07:47<Samu>editing a v2, will post it shortly
07:54<@peter1138>Wolf01, not one button to cycle?
07:55<Wolf01>No, or if you want just one it must not be kept in a pressed state
07:55<@peter1138>sure
07:55<@peter1138>button not a toggle button
07:58<Wolf01>It might change the icon to show the current arrangement, like 1/3, 2/3... 1/5, but I don't like that, and with an icon it might be tricky
07:58<Wolf01>Also if you have more than 3 arrangements you need a lot of clicks to get back to the previous one
07:59<Wolf01>That's why I'm for +1/-1 or </> buttons
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08:00<Samu>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=76137&p=1184618#p1184618
08:00<Samu>posted v2
08:00<Samu>peter1138:
08:00<Wolf01>They might be thin, so they only take the same space of a single button
08:00<@peter1138>isn't that hard to press?
08:00<@peter1138>well
08:01<Wolf01>We have smaller buttons
08:01<@peter1138>k
08:02<Wolf01>Just look at the date widgets in the SE toolbar
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08:57<crem>dodn't!
09:02<Wolf01>What?
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09:13<eekee>i didn't!
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09:39<__ln__>so... what language will we choose as the main language on this channel after brexit?
09:40<Wolf01>Klingon
09:40<crem>Ithkuil
09:50<@planetmaker>esperanto
09:51<Wolf01>That won't work
09:51<@planetmaker>or maybe latin. Might be used more wide-spread
09:52<Wolf01>I could try with Furlan
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09:53<Wolf01>But I miss all the accents in the keyboard :(
09:54<crem>Let's talk brainfuck or whitespace.
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10:20<UncleCJ>ln: American?
10:21<UncleCJ>I just checked out the old source code - seems the svn crashed sometime seven years ago or something. I understand my old classmate was one of the initial developers
10:21<UncleCJ>Mhmmm... "In 2003, Ludvig Strigeus announced that he intended to reverse engineer Transport Tycoon Deluxe and convert the game to C. In 2004, this re-engineered Transport Tycoon Deluxe was released and named OpenTTD"
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10:23<@Rubidium>C++
10:24<LordAro>Rubidium: i feel like it definitely used to be C
10:24<UncleCJ>Oh hai Rubidium, just looking for you :-)
10:24<UncleCJ>"Brought to you by: darkvater, rubidium85, strigeus"
10:27<@peter1138>i wonder what anna meredith smokes
10:27<UncleCJ>Oh it used to... and it's fun archeology to dig around in that stuff
10:27<UncleCJ>https://git.openttd.org/?p=trunk.git;a=log;pg=226
10:28<UncleCJ>(I'm also doing an svn-git conversion of a very old repo in the office, so it's kind of related)
10:28<UncleCJ>... and someone already did one of these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb1B3GX4UGA
10:33<@peter1138>a while ago
10:33<@peter1138>though probably not that many commiets since then
10:33<@peter1138>or commits
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10:34<@Alberth>o/
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10:39<Wolf01>o/
10:39<UncleCJ>peter1138: I just think it's awesome to see the craft of software development visualized like that, so many thoughts, so much work, not only to expand but to reshape the project. Plus it's open source, Ludvig is hardly noticeable among all the other contributors
10:42<LordAro>@seen Ludde
10:42<@DorpsGek>LordAro: Ludde was last seen in #openttd 4 years, 37 weeks, 3 days, 7 hours, 39 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <ludde> hej
10:43<@peter1138>that recently? heh
10:44<Samu>woah, editing npf was much much easier than yapf
10:44<Samu>already have it finding depots for npf
10:44<Samu>still missing opf
10:44<Samu>must take a look
10:44<Wolf01>Mmmh weather is getting hot
10:45<Wolf01>Not warm... hot
10:46<Wolf01>The wind is like a hairdryer
10:46<Samu>it's 19ºC here
10:46<Samu>well 20ºC, just now
10:47<Wolf01>24°C here
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10:57<__ln__>Samu: you're using the wrong degree character º while Wolf01 is using the correct °.
10:58<Samu>:(
10:58<__ln__>you're using: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordinal_indicator#Masculine
10:58<Samu>my keyboard doesn't have that
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10:59<Samu>ª º
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11:00<Samu>oops
11:01<UncleCJ>LordAro: I have a fond memory of Ludde coding at the university lab... I commented something like "A minimal bittorrent client, for windows, and closed source? What a boring project?!"
11:01<LordAro>haha
11:01<UncleCJ>Rarely have I been more mistaken, except the time when I was dead sure youtube would fail spectacularly
11:02<@peter1138>It did, later.
11:02*UncleCJ is fond of being spectacularly mistaken occasionally
11:04<Samu>90 deg doesn't work for opf?
11:06<Eddi|zuHause>converting an svn repo to git? isn't there like a git-svn interface that you can just check out the repo with,and do any further work off that checkout (cloning, pushing, etc.)?
11:07<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: yes, there is git-svn
11:07<@peter1138>yeah it mostly works
11:07<@peter1138>unless you didn't know about trunk etc when you set it up
11:07<LordAro>git-svn still has to convert to git format on first clone
11:08<LordAro>(unless you only do it to a certain depth or w/e)
11:08<@Alberth>https://www.atlassian.com/git/tutorials/migrating-overview <-- Eddi|zuHause
11:09<@Alberth>just skip the steps involving bitbucket :)
11:09<@Alberth>empty directories are a problem
11:09<Eddi|zuHause>"if you’re reading this guide, that person is probably you"
11:12<UncleCJ>Eddi|zuHause: Yeah, there is, but it's more involved than that, like if we want to keep using svn, how are the credentials stored, the layout is very non-standard and have changed a couple of times during the years, multiple components... 2900 commits over 9 years
11:14<UncleCJ>I could of course just do recent history of the trunk, but where's the fun in that? I found some tutorial how to do it step-wise and graft the histories together... now I'm down to a 370 MB git repo, which is not too shabby
11:14<UncleCJ>I noticed OpenTTD just made separate repos for the different svn branches, that is one way too
11:14<Eddi|zuHause>well, you want to preserve as much history as possible
11:15<Eddi|zuHause>OpenTTD is a bit special because it wants to keep SVN as the main repo
11:16<@Alberth>that's addressed too in the tutorial
11:16<Eddi|zuHause>for your in-house development that's probably not a useful goal
11:18<@peter1138>yeah i'd not keep svn if it was myself
11:19<@Alberth>depends on how git-minded you are, bitbucket aims for companies, where not everybody or everything can switch to git instantly
11:21<@peter1138>i guess it does require more coordination
11:21<@peter1138>at least with svn committing to trunk is easy
11:28<@Alberth>you need to do "git pull" every now and then
11:32<__ln__>https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12117
11:33<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: oooold
11:33<__ln__>:(
11:34<Eddi|zuHause>[28.03.17 21:18] <Eddi|zuHause> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/60rzjn/my_cat_was_fooled_by_xfce/?id=12117
11:36<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, my cats are usually uninterested in what's on my screen, except for the mouse cursor
11:37<Wolf01>My cat was really uninterested on what was on my screen, he loved to just sleep on my lap
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11:55<Samu>i dont understand how the original pathfinder works, it's too different than the other two
11:59<@Alberth>it uses some heuristics, ie guesses for common situations. That makes it quicker, but also less accurate
11:59<@Alberth>never looked at it in detail though
12:00<Samu>heuristics? what is that?
12:00<@Alberth>ever played the Deluxe version, or RCT1 or 2, or Locomotion, or the new mobile transport tycoon?
12:00<@Alberth>they all use it, I think
12:01<@Alberth>it's sort of a table with common answers, based on very simple criteria
12:03<@Alberth>it could be, for example, "walk in the direction of the axis with the longest distance"
12:03<@Alberth>Again, I am just making up this example, I don't know what OPF does
12:04<@Alberth>it generally works, as most people make tracks that way
12:05<@Alberth>you can however also construct connections that fail on that heuristic
12:05<@Alberth>real path finders like NPF and YAPF do a proper distance calculation, and always come up with the correct answer
12:05<@Alberth>they are however much slower
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12:30<frosch123>"I was searching the web for information on Germany and saw your great post here: http://wiki.openttd.org/DBSet" <- ottd spam is best spam
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12:36<Wolf01>Quak
12:36<frosch123>hoi
12:37<@Alberth>hola
12:37<@Alberth>from Germany in general to an ancient OpenTTD train set... how do you do that :p
12:40<frosch123>Alberth: it links to wikipedia/germany
12:41<@Alberth>:O
12:53<Samu>how to make the opf do a FindDepotData :(
12:53<Wolf01>Call the function
12:54<Samu>it doesn't even know if the ship is lost
12:54<Samu>if it's going the right way
12:54<Samu>i think it's possible, but i still don't quite get how this works
12:54<Wolf01>Why don't you instead make another pathfinder based on YAPF and leave other code as is?
12:55<@peter1138>this stuff is why i was suggesting to rip out the non-yapf pathfinders
12:55<@peter1138>having to reimplement everything.. :S
12:57<Wolf01>Because people is nostalgic and want to feel how it was to play with old things
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12:59<frosch123>i like npf, it always comes to use when yapf is desync-broken and noone can fix it
12:59<@peter1138>o_O
13:00<@peter1138>still desyncs :(
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13:00<frosch123>generally, if something is broken with yapf, it helps to check whether npf works
13:00<frosch123>to see whether the issue is with yapf, or something from the outside
13:00<@peter1138>hmm using pianoteq for openttd's music
13:00<frosch123>peter1138: i think the railtype fix was only 2016
13:00<@peter1138>only works for the scott joplin set :D
13:01<@peter1138>what railtype fix?
13:01<@peter1138>bear in mind i've not played much since about 2008 :p
13:01<frosch123>yapf used to consider track segments with different tracktypes as one segment in some cases, which resulted in desyncs
13:01<@peter1138>ahhh
13:01<@peter1138>i always wanted to have the signal code check railtype
13:02<@peter1138>but that was just spiteful to openttdcoop :p
13:02<frosch123>coop would riot :p
13:03<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think that would work right with railtypes that are "incompatible", but have some common "ancestor"
13:03<frosch123>i assume infra-sharing disabled signals checking ownership
13:03<frosch123>would be funny otherwise
13:04<Eddi|zuHause>remember when you could build depots at AI stations and crash or block their vehicles?
13:05<@peter1138>the whole "back of the depot" trick?
13:05<@peter1138>amongst others
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>no, not back of depot
13:05<@peter1138>(which scares me when i see in these patch packs code that removes rear of depot checks... "trains don't go into rear of depot" yeah... sure)
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>just simply put a depot, buy a jinty (oh the memories) and let it go
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>it would crash with the AI vehicles
13:06<@peter1138>heh
13:06<@peter1138>not on their track but can still collide
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>because the crash check would work across owners
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>and the vehicle can move a bit over the end of the track
13:07<@peter1138>hmm, annoying that pmidi doesn't send all-notes-off when it finishes :S
13:11<@peter1138>oh, apparently it does
13:11<@peter1138>maybe only when it finishes cleanly :S
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13:14<@peter1138>well
13:14<@peter1138>SIGINT does it
13:14<@peter1138>but SIGTERM not :(
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13:24<@peter1138>usual problem with midi, if you don't have the exact same instrument set and synthesizer, it all sounds terrible
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13:36<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r27834 /trunk/src/music (extmidi.cpp extmidi.h) (2017-03-29 19:36:46 +0200 )
13:36<@DorpsGek>-Change: Parse extmidi command string for parameters to pass on.
13:39<Samu>i dunno how to do this for opf, it was probably done before, opf used to manage trains, right?
13:40<Samu>when was the last time opf was selectable in openttd?
13:40<Samu>for trains
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27835 trunk/src/lang/norwegian_bokmal.txt (2017-03-29 19:45:37 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>norwegian (bokmal): 37 changes by eirik174
13:49<@peter1138>it's a bit jumbled
13:49<@peter1138>@commit r2635
13:50<@peter1138>well i dunno
13:50<Samu>ok, screw it
13:50<Samu>i was trying to make opf search for depots
13:51<Samu>already done it for npf and yapf, missing opf
13:51<Samu>t.t
13:51<@peter1138>the old pathfinder isn't even the original one
13:51<@peter1138> (svn r2635) Fix: [ntp/misc] Improve the old pathfinder. Changed it to A* instead of Dijkstra.
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>ntp is not the original pathfinder
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>it's "new train pathfinding"
13:54<Samu>TPFMode1 :( isee
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14:12<Samu>oh well, too noob for this
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14:41<Samu>why can't i put a FindDepotData on opf_ship.cpp
14:42<Samu>Severity Code Description Project File Line Suppression State Error (active) identifier "FindDepotData" is undefined openttd d:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\pathfinder\opf\opf_ship.cpp 216
14:44<Samu>i don't understand includes
14:44<Samu>why do I have to include it twic
14:44<Samu>twice
14:44<Samu>#include "../pathfinder_type.h"
14:44<Samu>in opf_ship.h and opf_ship.cpp
14:45<Wolf01>Because headers are used very wrongly
14:45<Samu>what's a header?
14:45<Wolf01>Fucking god
14:45<Wolf01>.h <- headers
14:46<Samu>ah
14:46<Samu>sorry i'm noob
14:46<Wolf01>They should only have the declaration, not implementation
14:47<Samu>ok, i removed it from the .h
14:47<Samu>it's only on .cpp now, it's working
14:47<Samu>didn't have to include twice after all
14:48<Samu>ship_cmd.cpp can still have access to FindDepotData OPFShipFindNearestDepot(const Ship *v, int max_distance);
14:48<Samu>good, all good
14:49<Wolf01>You should include it only in files where it's specifically used
14:51<Samu>all this just for a placeholder function
14:51<Samu>it's not even implemented
14:51<Samu>lel
14:53<Wolf01>Compiler shit... you can't declare a function after its use, but you can declare it and implement it after its use
14:53<@Alberth>until you try to inline the code :p
14:54<Samu> return FindDepotData();
14:54<Samu>is the only thing it does
14:54<Samu>lol
14:55<Samu>until i figure a way to do it for real in OPF, it stays like that
14:55<Wolf01>Just use "FindDepotData()"?
15:00<Samu>here it is, the patch https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pbcgoaplf
15:01<Samu>line 82, :p
15:01<Samu>and line 314 is where it's called
15:02<Samu>line 354 will handle it better
15:03<Samu>it resorts to the distance manhattan search method
15:11<Samu>uploaded v3, yay
15:11<Samu>so who wants to do the opf part for me? :p
15:12<Wolf01>Everyone
15:13<Wolf01>If everyone contributes with a character, then you will only have to rearrange them in the right order, like puzzle
15:13<Wolf01>I'll start: =
15:13<@Rubidium>
15:23<Wolf01>Since not many people would like to contribute (is free), here is another one: ;
15:24<+glx>I give ( and )
15:27<@Alberth>x & y look needed too
15:34<Samu>:)
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17:15<@peter1138>evening
17:18<Wolf01>Oh hi
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17:31<@peter1138>hmm
17:32<@peter1138>what did i miss?
17:32<@peter1138>oh, nothing much
17:33<Samu>i need help to do a FindDepotData for opf
17:33<Samu>:(
17:35<Wolf01>Don't?
17:36<@peter1138>forget opf
17:41<@peter1138>always fun when a lump of mud goes up your nose
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18:05<FLHerne>OPF does have the advantage of being actually readable
18:05<@peter1138>:)
18:06<Wolf01>I want to try to make an AI for OTTD... with every kind of problem, just to piss off Samu ;)
18:06<Wolf01>Like "do well for 5 years then suddenly become stupid as a brick"
18:07<Wolf01>Or try to get in all the weirdest situations, like blocked ships
18:07<Wolf01>Too distant airports
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>too bad i wouldn't read any of his complaints
18:15<Wolf01>Speaking of ignore, I miss you on steam
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>lets discuss that some other time
18:17<Wolf01>XD
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18:22<Wolf01>https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aRmLWyq_460sv.mp4 Ha! There must be some strong wind XD
18:24<@peter1138>my mountain bike would be alright
18:24<@peter1138>it's about 20 years old and weighs a bit more than modern bikes :p
18:29<Wolf01>At least it should be more durable ;)
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18:46<Samu>we need an ai that makes use of rivers, canals, aqueducts
18:46<Samu>there's none
18:47<Samu>and locks
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19:01<Wolf01>'night
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