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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-03-31

---Logopened Fri Mar 31 00:00:48 2017
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02:14<Samu>@logs
02:14<@DorpsGek>Samu: https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd
02:39<Samu>anyone around?
02:40<Supercheese>Maaaaaaybe
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02:54<Samu>nice, good morning
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03:09<Samu>can someone review if these comments are good? does it need more clarification? https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pxwa9eode
03:09<Samu>thx in advance
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04:14<@peter1138>hi
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04:15<Wolf01>Moin
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04:15<Samu>peter1138: can you look at my code for a moment?
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04:39<Samu>dead chat
04:39<@peter1138>sorry i have a real job too :p
04:42<Samu>t.t
04:43<@peter1138>i don't even know what that is meant to be
04:43<Samu>what?
04:43<Samu>it's locating a depot using opf
04:44<@peter1138>no, i mean 't.t'
04:44<Samu>it gets the tile where a depot might be so it can ask the pathfinder
04:44<Samu>oh
04:44<Samu>having a job sucks
04:45<Samu>unless you really like it
04:45<Wolf01>It's the t member of a class in a variable t
04:45<Wolf01>Yeah, having a job sucks :'(
04:45<@peter1138>:)
04:45<@peter1138>not having a job sucks more
04:46<Samu>t.t is the same as :(
04:46<Wolf01>I don't see the resemblance
04:47<Samu>i have a question about this case VPF_OPF: max_distance = 12; break;
04:47<Samu>why is it 12?
04:47<@peter1138>it's a good number
04:47<Samu>the others at default are 20
04:48<Samu>was there a special reason opf gets a lower max_distance than npf and yapf
04:51<Samu>hmm i'll be back later to read the answer, if any, got to go out do something
04:51<Samu>cya later
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05:42<Wolf01>Aww, not even an hour, give us time to think
05:42<Samu_>t.t
05:43<Samu_>:(
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06:15<Samu>i found something
06:16<Samu>-Feature-ish: make maximum pathfinder penalties for finding depots customisable, also increase it slightly to 20 tiles worth of penalties.
06:16<Samu>r18481 by Rubidium
06:16<Samu>it was 12
06:16<Samu>for all
06:17<Samu>then it became 12/20/20
06:17<Wolf01>I think nobody want to touch the OPF because "it just works"
06:18<Samu>i was thinking 20/20/20, 20 for all
06:18<Wolf01>And break OPF?
06:18<Samu>it is gonna ask opf
06:18<Wolf01>What if 20 formats your hard drive?
06:19<Samu>only opf isn't customizable
06:19<Wolf01>Maybe because even a slight change might make it unreliable?
06:20<Samu>i don't think it's worth a customization though, but i guess it could be increased to 20, now that i made it use opf to search for it
06:20<Samu>if, within 20, the opf finds a depot, the ship really goes to it
06:21<Samu>but if it doesn't...
06:21<Samu>it comes back with a UINT_MAX
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06:22<Samu>UINT_MAX is higher than 20, so it fails
06:22<Samu>it's also higher than 12 anyway
06:22<Samu>then it resorts to finding a depot with distancemanhattan
06:23<Samu>to a max of 20 tiles away
06:25<Samu>if I leave it at 12, opf would only be searching within 12 tiles distance, but it could reliably find something further away...
06:26<Samu>i dunno, i'm inclined to setting it to 20
06:28<Samu>from opf code, it can find up to a length of 50 tiles
06:28<Samu>reliably
06:28<Samu>(but unlikely)
06:29<Samu>okay, i'm setting it to 20
06:30<Samu>if opf doesn't find, it's still UINT_MAX, returning no depot
06:30<Samu>gonna post patch
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06:52<UncleCJ>Hey everyone. My first game-related question here - I am confused by the "virtual" block signal at train stations. I've been successfully using one-way path signals and trains enter free tracks in the station, but now at one (spread) station they suddenly don't, effectively making it a single-track station. Any ideas?
06:54<@peter1138>there's no virtual block signal at a station
06:55<@peter1138>there are penalties for crossing junction tiles which can affect which platform is chosen
06:55<@peter1138>show us a picture
06:55<Samu>here's the explanation for OPF, how I implemented it https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1184731#p1184731
06:57<UncleCJ>peter1138: I'll have to get a picture later
06:58<UncleCJ>peter1138: Exactly, that was one thought too, that it prefers a path that is busy and doesn't see the one that would be free
06:58<UncleCJ>... and I've considered if my 10 car+engine trains block the station, but that would be silly
06:59<Samu>edited topic, added a bit more clarity
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07:04<UncleCJ>peter1138: No invisible block signal at stations? Then I don't know why the video tutorial I watched mentioned it and how... oh, well I guess that could explain things...
07:06<UncleCJ>On my working RORO I had path signals at the exit of each platform, breaking up the paths in entry junction + platform and exit junction.
07:17<Samu>darn automatic services vs forced services, I'm always messing up these two during explanation
07:18<Samu>whatever, the code works, explaining how it works, however... :|
07:22<@peter1138>ROROs need signals, yes
07:22<@peter1138>you can get away without signals on terminus stations
07:23<@peter1138>i tend to put them in though
07:27<Wolf01>peter1138, maybe he mean the fact that a train wait at station end platform when using pbs
07:28<Wolf01>UncleCJ, stations are safe waiting points with an implicit PBS signal, like depots
07:29<@peter1138>not a block signal certainly
07:30<Wolf01>No, it's PBS, but it's active only with other PBS in the block, if you only use block signals it won't work
07:31<UncleCJ>Wolf01: Well that's what I assumed, but seemed it didn't work like that - unless I broke entry+platforms+exit up somewhere a train wouldn't see that a platform was free but only that the whole complex was busy?
07:31<Wolf01>Screen or didn't happen
07:32<Wolf01>I don't even signal stations and junctions and everything works :P
07:32<UncleCJ>Wolf01: :-)
07:33<Samu>currently testing yapf original vs yapf with reachable, let's see if the company profits increase
07:33<Samu>there's 89 ships in the company
07:37<Samu>there is an increase
07:38<Samu>yay, i'm pleased
07:38<Samu>+£5,641,262 to +£5,717,100
07:39<Samu>there was a decrease on the 2nd year, hmm
07:40<Samu>+£5,838,146 vs +£5,820,247
07:40<Samu>slight decrease
07:44<Wolf01>See, don't mess up with the pathfinder
07:45<Samu>3 years straight with slighth decreases, hmm i wonder why
07:45<Samu>the difference isn't much, about £15k-£20k
07:45<Samu>but still... i'm wondering what went wrong
07:46<Wolf01>Now you need to fix running costs
07:46<Wolf01>Blizzard style
07:47<UncleCJ>Wolf01: Screen: https://twitter.com/unclecj/status/847776506973745152
07:47<Samu>the biggest difference on the 4th year, by about £300k, i must investigate better
07:48<Samu>must see if i catch some ships behaving erraticaly if any
07:49<Wolf01>Can you enable the PBS highlight?
07:49<Samu>i see them all profiting
07:49<Samu>so, i wonder why is reachable depot worse
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07:51<Wolf01>Also you might be missing one piece of track on the 3 platform stations, the middle platform couldn't exit to north
07:52<UncleCJ>Wolf01: I'll check that out later then
07:53<UncleCJ>Wolf01: True, middle platform can't exit north. The main issue though (and I think I'll rebuild it from a roro terminus to proper roro) is that trains from the north won't enter the free platforms
07:53<Samu>the situation reversed, a year later
07:54<Samu>+£200k difference favoring reachable depot
07:54<Samu>so this is quite varied it seems
07:55<Wolf01>Samu, I really think that the profits are totally unrelated to your change, maybe you will get all ships to have profit as they don't get lost
07:56<Samu>i suppose so, the world doesn't evolve the same
07:56<Wolf01>You should look for a decrease of lost ships not for $200k difference on profit
07:56<Samu>this savegame had 89 ships, none were lost
07:56<Wolf01>And before the change?
07:57<Samu>that's what i mean, before the change, none were lost
07:57<Samu>after the change, none is lost as well
07:57<Wolf01>Then what are you testing for?
07:57<Samu>testing how much a pf finding depots would influence the profits
07:58<Samu>in this case, yapf
07:59<Wolf01>Testing how much changing the color of tiles in a supermarket affects profits
07:59<Wolf01>https://media.giphy.com/media/rkXNems5uxExG/giphy.gif
08:00<@peter1138>UncleCJ, yeah, you, uh, need some signals!
08:00<Samu>for this specific savegame, all depots were reachable, they might not have been the closest in terms of pf, perhaps i need another sample
08:02<Samu>another thing i notice, it's fast forwarding faster on my build
08:02<Wolf01>That's welcome
08:02<Samu>already 5 months ahead
08:03<Samu>i'm using 1.7.0-RC1 from openttd.org and the one i compiled here with vs2015, not sure if that can influence
08:03<UncleCJ>peter1138: Well according to Wolf01 platforms have some PBS magic, but I'm listening to the tutorial again to understand
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08:04<Samu>alright, enough Yapf
08:04<Samu>now gonna compare NPF
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08:09<crem>Hi sim-al2.
08:09<crem>Here is some entropy for you, as a gift: itU7Eu5aqigTF6yftC0b
08:12<Samu>about the same variances
08:12<Samu>fast forwarding seems to be slightly slower, about 5 days delayed
08:14<Samu>nothing is lost, everything is profiting
08:17<Samu>alright, testing OPF now
08:17<Samu>this one has a great degree of random
08:18<Samu>uses Random() when chosing a direction if the distance with either choice is the same
08:20<Samu>it appears to be fastforwading faster
08:20<Samu>will wait a bit more for confirmation
08:23<Samu>there's a greater variance favoring rechable depots, by about +£200k for 2 years straight
08:24<Samu>but with this much randomness i can't be too sure
08:26<Samu>on the 3rd year, less profit on my patch than on 1.7.0-rc1
08:26<Samu>but only by -£30k
08:27<Samu>in 3 years, fastforward is ahead by ~10 days
08:28<Samu>that is a surprise, as I am asking the pf to pf so many depots per ship
08:29<Samu>i've even increased the range from 12 to 20
08:29<Samu>hmm interesting result
08:30<Samu>18 lost ships in 1.7.0-RC1, 18 lost ships in my build
08:31<Samu>well, didn't get worse at least
08:31<Samu>the same lost ships
08:32<UncleCJ>Here was the mention of the "fictitious PBS signal at platforms", but as he doesn't clarify much it's more confusing than helpful. He uses it correctly though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekviqorobps&t=574s
08:34<Samu>19 lost ships now for 1.7.0-RC1
08:34<Samu>only 18 for mine
08:34<Samu>yay
08:35<Samu>now it's the opposite, 18 on original, 19 on me
08:35<Samu>heh, random is random
08:36<Samu>alright, enough testing, i'm satisfied with these results overall
08:43<@peter1138>what's the performance hit like?
08:45<Samu>in 6 years, fast forward was 1 month ahead
08:45<Samu>with opf
08:45<Samu>yapf in 6 years had 5 months ahead
08:45<Samu>npf decreased about 1 month
08:46<Samu>i wonder if i conducted the tests reliably, it was by eye
08:46<Samu>not fool proof
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08:49<Samu> here's OPF decing my build vs 1.7.0-RC1 http://imgur.com/kKvyNsE
08:49<Samu>deciding*
08:49<Samu>distance manhattan alone would decide on EAST depot
08:50<Samu>OPF deciding counts how many hops it had to travel for both and then picks the lowest
08:50<Samu>picks WEST
08:53<Samu>i hope npf and yapf also pick west, gonna confirm
08:54<Samu>yep, npf picks west
08:54<UncleCJ>When you build truck loading docks - how do you prefer to do them? I'm undecided between the drive-through and "pockets" but certainly one-way streets can make a big difference
08:56<@peter1138>drive-through are quicker
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08:56<drac_boy>hi
08:57<drac_boy>how woudl you correctly call a locomotive that was both diesel-electric and battery-electric modes altogether? (and well optionally yes the diesel does recharge battery on go)
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08:58<Samu>confirmed for yapf, also picks west
09:00<Samu>and now, let me showcase the biggest reason why I made this patch
09:01<Samu>http://imgur.com/qGgoZSt
09:01<Samu>keks
09:01<Samu>I did it
09:01<Wolf01>drac_boy, hybrid?
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09:03<drac_boy>wolf..hmm so in that case lets see if I perhaps get this right: diesel-electric = diesel to traction, diesel hybrid = diesel&battery multimode, electro-diesel = diesel or electric-pickup to traction multimode
09:04<Samu>now with the other depot blocked, http://imgur.com/bic4fKg
09:04<Wolf01>Do diesel traction engines exists?
09:04<drac_boy>or you got nay other thoughts wolf?
09:05<Wolf01>I always thought that after steam everything mounted electric engines with various power system... steam turbine, gas, diesel and catenary
09:06*drac_boy bonks wolf with the thing called mechanical or hydrostatic/hydraulic :P
09:08<Wolf01>Not for transporation, I see them more for caterpillars
09:08<drac_boy>which country you from again btw?
09:08<Wolf01>Banana's republic
09:08<drac_boy>that would explain some of it
09:10<drac_boy>but anyhow heres a relatively small/medium sized hydraulic as easily noted by the shafts inside the middle part of underbelly http://www.marub.ro/images/articole/locomotiva-diesel-hidraulica-1.jpg
09:11*drac_boy doesn't see any immediate outline drawings for either the infamous german examples or the many "western" in england but wouldn't bother too much with the web now
09:16<drac_boy>oh and wolf its still a rather minority niche but theres apparently still turbines .. russia started running thee in some trains as far as I recall news for it early last year (or late two years ago...not recalling) http://www.railjournal.com/media/k2/items/cache/9421db24f7b59a33518581167d545b9b_XL.jpg
09:17<drac_boy>then again they got heavy freight through a lot of populationless place .. plus tons of their own internal fuel sources so .. I guess burning lng isn't too bad :)
09:17<drac_boy>the first unit is basically a glorified lng tanker with cab added to it .. the real stuff is in the second unit heh
09:18<Wolf01>Oh, so the DB class V200 is hydraulic, nice to know, TBH I don't really care about how an engine is moved, I' fine with the power source classification
09:20<drac_boy>wolf well, just to add - there one thing that nearly all diesel-hydraulic have .. passive traction control .. diesel-electric have absolutely nothing unless you add very expensive sensory&throttle computers to every single separate axles
09:23<Wolf01>BTW, without trying to get too much smartass on me (I'm don't know every single bit of rail info, just the general part, so it isn't needed to pick on me because I didn't know or just ignored some niche things), this might answer to your first question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_train
09:24<drac_boy>as for power source classification yeah that was one thing german did really well at (the UIC system is a bit stupid compared to it but no comment tho) ...
09:24<drac_boy>:)
09:25<drac_boy>some other countries did have a bit of their own simple classifications too (even if english translation could be a little colorful)
09:25<drac_boy>like eg a tank locomotive would be lettered K for Kusy which in english translates to "chopped off" .. a colorful way to state its a tank not tender steam locomotive ;)
09:26<supermop>yo
09:27<Wolf01>o/
09:27*drac_boy grabs the big mop and make a big watery "mess" on the floor
09:27<drac_boy>hows the silly mop? :P
09:27<drac_boy>heh
09:28<Wolf01>I'm going to make a watery mess on the shower instead
09:28*drac_boy jabs the mop into wolf's feet then
09:28<@peter1138>i'm not sure i like the connotation of "mess" in quotes...
09:33<supermop>its fairly rainy here
09:34<Wolf01>Is fairly summer here
09:35<Wolf01>Not sure what to wear :S
09:37<Samu>i'm bored
09:37<@peter1138>https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/9a/eb/0f/9aeb0f69100520c0c78f8a8577248f04.jpg
09:37<@peter1138>seems suitable
09:38<@peter1138>Samu, try your patch with a real test case
09:38<@peter1138>there must be some large openttdcoop game with lots of ships, right?
09:38<Samu>1.7.0?
09:39<Samu>there's only 1 openttdcoop game, it requires newgrf stuff, gah, i hate to have that folder filled with crap
09:39<@peter1138>what?
09:39<@peter1138>there's loads of openttdcoop savegames
09:40<Samu>i was going online :(
09:40<Samu>where are those savegames, must find
09:50<Samu>nobody plays with breakdowns, damn it
09:50<drac_boy>samu its called single-player game :)
09:54<Samu>NewGRF presets don't work as I think
09:55<Samu>instead of Delete preset, I wish for a Delete NewGRF
09:55<Samu>from the system
09:55<Samu>not from the list
09:57<Samu>if i can delete savegames, why not delete newgrfs :(
09:57<drac_boy>samu its called folder delete
09:58<Samu>i want to keep some, not all
09:58<Samu>the more newgrf games i join, the bigger that list becomes with stuff i don't even care
10:00<Samu>and then the next time, the game listing mixes it up with all the newgrfs i have installed, i don't quite like this
10:00<Samu>just because I have it, doesn't mean i want it sorted
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10:02<Samu>why not sort vanilla games on top, newgrf games below
10:02<Samu>at least they're not mixed up, would be easier to distinguish
10:03<drac_boy>you do know how to read row icons don't you?
10:03<drac_boy>theres already an icon for games that aren't vanilla
10:04<@Alberth>o/
10:04<Samu>that's not how it works
10:05<Samu>vanilla and newgrfs are mixed together, unsorted
10:05<Samu>if i already have the newgrfs that is
10:06<drac_boy>samu yes it is .. icon = grf .. no icon = vanilla
10:06<drac_boy>it never changes simple as it
10:06<drac_boy>hi alberth? :)
10:06<Samu>it shows a green icon if i have the newgrf...
10:07<Samu>if i don't have the newgrf it shows yellow
10:07<Samu>my problem is... when i have those newgrfs installed, it shows green, the game is listed without criteria if it's vanilla or newgrf
10:08<Samu>that sucks
10:08<@peter1138>...
10:08<Samu>i have to check one by one
10:08<Samu>to see if it's vanilla or not
10:11<Samu>the easier way to filter newgrf games out is to delete the entire folder
10:11<Samu>see them listed as yellow
10:11<@peter1138>if you have the newgrf, what's the problem?
10:12<Wolf01>Oh, is tomorrow the 1.7.0 day?
10:12<Samu>but it happens that I want to keep some newgrfs installed, but still a way to distinguish vanilla from those installed newgrfs
10:12<Samu>bah, nobody understands me
10:12<Samu>i give up
10:13<Samu>i wouldn't like to delete the folder everytime I want to list vanilla games
10:14<Wolf01>I came up with a 1.7.0 announce while showering
10:14<@peter1138>lol
10:14<@peter1138>customer called, reoslved his query
10:14<@peter1138>then he said "thank you for your call"
10:14<@peter1138>yeah no
10:14<Wolf01>Lol
10:15<drac_boy>and what was it wolf? :)
10:16<Wolf01>I need to regroup the ideas and write it first
10:16<@peter1138>Wolf01, dunno, i imagine there may be some back porting. dunno though.
10:17<Wolf01>I write it down anyway
10:22<@peter1138>:)
10:25<Samu>is 1.7.0 coming with the cpu evaluator thingy?
10:25<Samu>RIP GS's
10:25<Samu>RIP AI's
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10:29*drac_boy is still waiting for two overdue updates too :-/
10:33<drac_boy>(if anyone's ever bothered, 1. platform support and 2. being able to use real signalling)
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10:34<Samu>just build separate stations adjacent to each other
10:35<drac_boy>samu, and how does that even help #2 one bit at all other than for wasting much more land and still not being able to redirect trains anyway?
10:35<drac_boy>just asking
10:36<Samu>use one station just for a cargo
10:37<Samu>a farm producing livestock and grain, build 2 stations adjacent to each other
10:37<drac_boy>samu and how is that EVEN one bit relevant to #2 pls?
10:37<Samu>train grain goes to one of the stations
10:37<Samu>livestock goes to the other
10:38<Samu>what is real signalling?
10:40<drac_boy>divert trains by operation types aside to for example holding a red if certain conditions at other signals aren't met (even if the immediate route was still clear)
10:40<drac_boy>dunno why you think thats got anything to do with stations tbh
10:45<Samu>http://imgur.com/qfvPAjf
10:46<Wolf01>Ok, I think I'm fine with my announce
10:47<Wolf01>It might need some syntax checking btw
10:48<Samu>if 2 grain trains are at the platforms and a 3rd grain train wants to go in, it won't, it stops at red sign
10:49<Samu>if the 3rd train was livestock, it would proceed to its livestock station
10:49<drac_boy>samu now pls explain this: how to make the signal at entry of factory stay red if there is not at least one goods train already inside?
10:50<Samu>separate that then
10:50<drac_boy>samu do I need to repeat? how to make the signal R-E-D
10:50<Samu>1 station where trains unload livestock and grain, the other where trains load grain
10:50<Samu>then i dunno
10:51<@peter1138>drac_boy, without programmable signals... nope
10:51<@peter1138>just do it the easy way, separate platforms
10:52<drac_boy>and how do you suggest trying to make timetable for goods trains to use 2+ platforms and not even knowing which one is empty?
10:52<drac_boy>easier to do it at the signal level as ttdxp had for a rather long time by comparison
10:53<@peter1138>cool, play ttdp for now then :p
10:53<Samu>oops load goods*
10:54<@peter1138>at least ttdp can't look as shit as openttd
10:55<Samu>never played ttd patch
10:55<drac_boy>and also as a bonus it lets you build uk-style stations for mixed bidirectional&deadend express services too :)
10:56<@Alberth>clearly, you're playing with the wrong program :)
10:56<drac_boy>(because the through line has plain signal but the bay track has lengthrestrict signal :) )
10:57<@peter1138>https://www.rcts.org.uk/cache/photographs/branches/thames%20valley/55034%20%20at%20Princes%20Risborough%20Princes%20Risborough%2027Sep16%20Stuart%20Hicks.780.jpg
10:58<@peter1138>^ this lovely yummy modern train is what i see on my bike ride to work every day...
10:59<@Alberth>looks lovely indeed
11:00<@peter1138>hmm, built in 1960
11:01<Samu>Alberth: is my patch good?
11:01<drac_boy>wouldn't lay the stowaway track to the rightmost ingame but even then heres an example of the bay platform in reality still https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/7c/40/e0/7c40e0ea9952b4d1fca868309371d4e6.jpg
11:01<@Alberth>it also looks aged, but still good :)
11:01<Samu>depots for ships :p
11:01<@peter1138>ooh 300hp
11:01<drac_boy>railcar or any short <3 car services can borrow the stubby platform for themself to avoid blocking the heavy express trains from going through nonstop
11:02<@peter1138>drac_boy, in ottd trains already try to choose an appropriately long platform
11:03<drac_boy>well dunno about you but one single signal is all it takes to make any non-thru short train not block the main line :)
11:03<@Alberth>Samu: no idea, imho, pathfinding should become much faster first
11:03<@peter1138>yeah i suggested he test it with a bigger game than his tiny test case :p
11:04<drac_boy>will admit that it should be possible for a train to leave deadend platform then reverse its direction mid-route but I think the game code is too complex to warrant doing such a thing so meh with it :p
11:04<@peter1138>admit?
11:04<drac_boy>(at least as a semi-cheat a waypoint placed on deadend track sorta does a similar job)
11:04<@peter1138>not exactly an admission that
11:05<@peter1138>our pathfinders can't trace back over an existing path
11:06<@peter1138>a* doesn't know anything about unable to turn
11:10<drac_boy>no? hm well dunno what to say about that as the train orders has no problem being instructed in this 3-orders manner: 1. go to City2 (and gets signal-redirected into the bay platform) 2. go via Waypoint (which is a deadend track making the train bounce into other direction) 3. go to city1 (which wasn't accessible from the bay platform route anyhow)
11:10<@peter1138>well obviously
11:10<@peter1138>the pathfinder goes to each destination in turn
11:11<drac_boy>ah you were talking about without the waypoint? yeah I see your point there too sorry :)
11:12<Samu>I'm not sure if its faster, my unreliable tests indicated that it's faster
11:12<Samu>not scientifically measured
11:13<Samu>only npf became slower
11:14<Samu>unless i run it for 100 years in fast forward? :(
11:14<@Alberth>depots are rarely used, gaining some speed for a seldomly used feature doesn't help
11:15<Samu>yeah ppl dont use breakdowns most of the time :|
11:16<@Alberth>even with breakdowns, it's seldomly used, compared with regular path-finding between harbours/buoys
11:17<Samu>t.t i like the auto-service feature
11:17<@Alberth>sure, I use it too, as I play with breakdown enabled :)
11:19<@Alberth>but how often does a ship need service? almost never
11:19<Samu>every 360
11:19<@Alberth>ok
11:19<Samu>if default
11:20<@Alberth>I would prefer to have a speedup for the remaining 359 days instead
11:21<@Alberth>and not 10-20% faster, but 200-500% faster, preferably even more
11:25<@peter1138>Alberth, this isn't a speed up for servicing
11:25<@peter1138>Alberth, this is "don't try to go to unreachable depot"
11:26<@Alberth>fair enough
11:26<Samu>it's both
11:27<@peter1138>this may improve performance and it may stop ships being unable to route and causing lag
11:27<@peter1138>s/and/as/
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11:40<@Alberth>hi hi
11:40<Zuu>Hello
11:40<drac_boy>anyway going to sort out lunch here
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11:41<Zuu>When I start a game with WAS (world airline set) in 1950, human player cannot construct airports, but my old PAXLink AI builds a small airport fine. :-)
11:41<@Alberth>haha :)
11:41<Zuu>In the GUI the airport button is disabled.
11:42<@Alberth>it has secret ways in, built for it, by the devs of the game :p
11:42<Zuu>:-)
11:43<Zuu>CluelessPlus on the other hand finds no possible nodes to connect. Maybe it use an API that list zero available airports or something.
11:43<Zuu>Instead of just trying with the constant ID that the small airpot have. :-)
11:43<@Alberth>yeah, stuff not properly connected or cross-checked
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11:53<Wolf01>What bothers me most is that my friend in a coop play is able to run steam trains without cabeese
11:53<@peter1138>haha
11:54<@peter1138>apparently it's a bad feature
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11:55<@Alberth>o/
11:55<Wolf01>Oh, cat returned
11:55<Wolf01>Mating season or what?
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11:56<andythenorth>hi
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12:14<Samu>might have to edit a v5, i found a peculiar situation t.t
12:15<Samu>if (sfdd.best_length == UINT_MAX || sfdd.best_length >= max_distance)
12:16<Samu>i'm wondering if I should remove ' || sfdd.best_length >= max_distance'
12:16<andythenorth>such
12:16<andythenorth>but such what?
12:16*andythenorth has been away
12:16<Wolf01>We noticed it
12:17<andythenorth>Wolf01: fancy merging trunk to NRT?
12:17<andythenorth>there are conflicts...
12:17<andythenorth>:|
12:17<Wolf01>I noticed
12:18<andythenorth>hmm, man
12:19<andythenorth>* maybe
12:19<andythenorth>maybe FIRS
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12:26<Samu>nop, it's not this
12:29<@peter1138>how can there be conflicts when ottd is dead!
12:30<andythenorth>oh
12:30<andythenorth>I missed that :P
12:30<andythenorth>sounds greatly exaggerated
12:36<Zuu>Hmm was library variables scoped off for AIs/Scripts?
12:37<Wolf01>https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aVqEMVw_460sv.mp4 conflicts
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12:38<Zuu>In the past they shared the global scope with the host AI. But now a list that SuperLib store in global scope variable is retained, but the content is empty on the second call.
12:40<Zuu>But it only occur with WAS. And it makes no sense..
12:41<andythenorth>hi Zuu
12:41<Zuu>Hi andythenorth
12:42<andythenorth>hmm FIRS bugs
12:42<andythenorth>never fix themselves :P
12:43<Zuu>Although before loosing the list, it is able to add item 0 twice to the list which should not be possible. A small dummy AI is not able to reproduce that.
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12:52<Zuu>Hmm, no it is not. It is just me forgetting to write ", _" in foreach(item, _ list)
12:54<Zuu>Oh.. and the truncated list is probably just by-ref :-)
12:57<Samu>zuu, do you work on clueless plus?
12:58<Samu>cpu evaluator kills many AIs, i think clueless plus and paxlink die when placing HQ
12:58<Samu>choochoo dies
12:58<Samu>mailai dies
12:59<Samu>either terron or otvi dies, i forgot which
12:59<Samu>i think its otvi
13:01<Zuu>Samu: I looked into why it was not trying to build airports in the WAS test. But not really developing on it really.
13:05<Zuu>It seem to be fixed by the SuperLib fix to always return copies of the internal cache instead of returning pointer to the cache.
13:06<Zuu>It relates also to starting the game before there is any airplane available (and other modes disabled) and then continue into a time when aircrafts are available.
13:08<Zuu>I have fixed the HQ problem of CluelessPlus locally.
13:09<Zuu>Its recursive valuator usage that kills CluelessPlus which is easy to rewrite, but requires some time from the author. :-)
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13:25<Samu>nice, thx
13:25<Samu>once 1.7.0 is released i may test some ais
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14:19<Samu>i can improve Yapf a bit, gonna try avoid that go back and forth when trying to service at a nearby depot
14:20<Samu>will make it, either go, or never go
14:21<Samu>this is "kinda" how OPF is doing
14:21<Samu>it doesn't get into a deadlock
14:22<Samu>unless i haven't made it trigger it
14:22<Samu>trigger yet*
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14:34<Wolf01>Quak
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14:39<frosch123>moi
14:57<andythenorth>lo frosch123
15:04*andythenorth needs some FIRS station names
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15:09<Samu>is this single line correct coding style? CYapfCostShipT() : m_max_cost(0) { }
15:10<Samu>do I need { } ?
15:10<Samu>do i put them in the next 2 lines?
15:10<Samu>if it's single line is it {} or { } ?
15:12<Samu>my copy paste skills can't deal with this
15:25<@peter1138>who knows!
15:26<Wolf01>I would use ; instead of { }
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15:28<Wolf01>Oh, I didn't understand what's written in that line, it seemed a ternary operator
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15:31<@peter1138>heh
15:36<+glx>looks like an empty constructor
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15:39<Wolf01>Yeah, looking at it, it looks as a method definition for partial class
15:40<Wolf01>Or a value object
15:41<Wolf01>Also, andythenorth, how do you sync with trunk in your repo? I tried it to see where it conflicts but I can only sync between branches or my clone, while on my clone I see all the clones from github o_O
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15:48<andythenorth>Wolf01: I added ottd trunk as a git remote to my repo
15:48<andythenorth>it was a command line thing
15:48<andythenorth>not hard though
15:49<andythenorth>https://help.github.com/articles/adding-a-remote/
15:50<Wolf01>Oh that thing which doesn't work when you checkout with SVN from github
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15:54<@peter1138>github does svn?
15:54<Wolf01>You can checkout, yes
15:55<Wolf01>But remotes don't seem to work, even if it should just create an external
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15:56<Wolf01>:o
15:56<Wolf01>Look who is here
15:56<Wolf01>o/
15:56<@Belugas>naaaa.... you had too much to drink ;)
15:56<@Belugas>delirium tremens!
15:58<Wolf01>How is going?
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16:01<@peter1138>Belugas, Belugas Belugas Belugas <3
16:02<@Belugas>:D
16:02<@peter1138>speaking of drink
16:03<@Belugas>lol! I have a reputation ^^
16:04<andythenorth>is Belugas
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16:07<@Belugas>I came just because there is someone is celebrating something thoday ^^
16:08<Wolf01>Like, your birthday?
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16:11<@Belugas>not mine ;) mine is in december. and at my age (now 52), that is not a date i want to celebrate lol!!!!
16:16<V453000>birthday?
16:18<@Belugas>yeah, a birthday :) a good friend of mine!
16:20<Samu>i just smartened Yapf
16:20<Samu>there's a greater degree with yapf than with the others
16:20<Samu>but it's much harder to understand
16:21<Samu>ship will no longer go back and forth
16:22<Samu>gpnna try do it for npf too, hopefully I can
16:24<Samu>degree of customizability*
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17:02<Wolf01>https://www.amazon.com/Million-Random-Digits-Normal-Deviates/dp/0833030477/ yeah
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17:34<__ln__>Wolf01: have you read it through?
17:35<Wolf01>Yes I usually read some PI cyphers before sleeping
17:35<Wolf01>BTW, the comments are funny
17:36<Samu>i can improve npf code a little bit
17:36<Samu>yay
17:37<@peter1138>pom te pom
17:37<Wolf01>He looks like my chatbot... quiet for hours, when you start talking it starts too with another random argument
17:39<__ln__>i read a whole 10 lines of those random digits, and i found a pattern.
17:41<Wolf01>I found a pattern too, writing prime numbers in a square
17:41<Wolf01>At school, while bored
17:43<Wolf01>I found it years later while watching numberphile on youtube...
17:46<@peter1138>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChgvPTVpbzs
17:47<Wolf01>It's.... wonderful
17:57<Wolf01>Heh, I'm now trapped in a loop of their videos
18:03<@peter1138>heh
18:04<__ln__>which king's singers?!
18:05<__ln__>it's an old video but not that old
18:05<Wolf01>All of them, old, new ones
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18:10<Samu>_npf_aystar.max_path_cost = 0;
18:11<Samu>this needs to be changed to _npf_aystar.max_path_cost = _settings_game.pf.npf.maximum_go_to_depot_penalty in the case of depot searching
18:11<Samu>how do I do this, must think
18:12<Samu>it's not even done for trains or road vehicles either
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18:13<Samu>why didn't u do it?
18:14<Samu>you have npf searching depots for road vehicles and trains, you have a game setting about max depot penalty for npf, but then it's not implemented :(
18:15<Wolf01>To confuse you
18:15<Samu>in essence, that setting does nothing, no matter what u set in there
18:16<Wolf01>We should really remove NPF
18:16<@peter1138>And OPF
18:16<@peter1138>i would but i'm watching numberphile now
18:16<Wolf01>:D
18:18<Zuu>Fixed SuperLib pathfinder not timing out (patch by yorg), then fixed that it was returning "not found" status code instead of "timeout" when it does timeout. 3rd: fixed that it was using up PF loops too fast. :-)
18:19<Zuu>Now CluelessPlus can again use the road bulider. :-)
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18:33<__ln__>a Zuu since a very long time
18:33<Zuu>(-:
18:33<Wolf01>Just broke my neck
18:34<Zuu>It is actually not that long since I was here last. A month or too.
18:34<Zuu>But before that, yes indeed.
18:34<@peter1138>wut
18:38<@peter1138>damn, you look at patches
18:39<@peter1138>and they do some weird things :S
18:39<Wolf01>Did you trip in the ottd dev forum?
18:41<@peter1138>heh
18:41<@peter1138>apparently i've collecting my own patches again too
18:43<@peter1138>jgr's patch has "minimap-screenshot-rect" and "smallmap-screenshot"
18:44<Wolf01>I think I'll do bed stuff now, like reading a book and sleeping over it... before falling on numberphile again
18:44<Wolf01>See you later... 'night
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19:02<@peter1138>brup
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19:09<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r27838 trunk/src/news_gui.cpp (2017-04-01 01:09:50 +0200 )
19:09<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Small news window's fake caption (r19943) was not sized to fit its text.
19:18<@peter1138>town rating in town label patch is weird
19:18<@peter1138>makes the population_in_label setting not work right
19:20<@peter1138>oh god that syntax
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19:36<Samu>woah, i went further back to r1751 and npf always had used _npf_aystar.max_path_cost = 0;
19:37<Samu>npf was born in r1751
19:37<Samu>nobody ever implemented it :(
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20:02<Samu>lol, this was easier to implement
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---Logclosed Sat Apr 01 00:00:49 2017