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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-04-01

---Logopened Sat Apr 01 00:00:49 2017
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01:11<Sacro>Je suis nach Deautschland
01:12<Sacro>I could drop by and see Eddi|zuHause
01:14*Sacro considers changing to Sacro|zuFlugbahnhopf
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05:16<andythenorth>crates or tons?
05:17<__ln__>which tons
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05:25<@Alberth>I like crates, tbh
05:31<andythenorth>I like crates, but it’s illogical :)
05:31<andythenorth>I posted in the thread
05:32<Wolf01>You like cardboard boxes
05:32<andythenorth>crates makes drawing easy :P
05:33<Wolf01>Yeah, it's difficult to draw a ton
05:35<Wolf01> need to think about it
05:38<__ln__>looks good, but how shall we name the months?
05:38<Wolf01>With numbers
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05:39<Wolf01>Onember, twomber, threember... september, october, november, december stay the same
05:40<__ln__>i suspect one,two,three isn't one,two,three in latin.
05:40<Wolf01>I don't know latin
05:41<__ln__>you know a variant of it
05:42<__ln__>centuries of misspelling and bad grammar
05:43<Wolf01>Yeah, still not knowing it :P
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05:46<@Alberth>mapping of existing eg birthdays to new calendar is a puzzle :p
05:47<@Alberth>but afaik some use 4-week months for book keeping
05:47<Wolf01>You will lose your day/month, but if you calculate it on dayOfYear it should be symple to get the new day/month
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05:47<Wolf01>*simple also
05:48<Wolf01>*or easy
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05:56<andythenorth>so many FIRS mines
05:57<andythenorth>not sure how to make them look different
05:58<andythenorth>this one is used twice
05:58<andythenorth>and this one is used twice
05:58<andythenorth>I need graphics for another 6 mines
06:03<Wolf01>This one maybe in 1800 ^ just to make clear the game is not about realism
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06:14<Wolf01> <- we should make OTTD compile on that XD
06:16<@Alberth>firs mines are mostly too small :p
06:16<@Alberth>:O turbo-C, that brings back memories :p
06:16<andythenorth>they look too small when building, e.g. trains stations next too them
06:17<andythenorth>but bigger doesn’t work
06:17<Wolf01>Otherwise they won't fit in a 32x32 map
06:17<@Alberth>I agree, bigger serves no purpose, and only get in the way
06:17<andythenorth>maybe I should try a drift mine
06:18<@Alberth>firs extra-deluxe version, only usable at 4092**2 :D
06:18<andythenorth>that locates on hillsides
06:18<andythenorth>requiring slopes won’t go well on flat maps though
06:19<@Alberth>yeah, openttd should fix that
06:19<andythenorth>industry terraforming?
06:19<andythenorth>or fix tropic map gen?
06:19<andythenorth>or both? o_O
06:21<@Alberth>they're different problems :p
06:22<@Alberth>I was referring to the former, first problem is how to express map height requirements in newgrf
06:22<@Alberth>second problem is how to make openttd understand what to change on the current surface
06:23<@Alberth>is perhaps an A* search problem
06:23<Wolf01>Samu approves
06:24<@Alberth>likely :)
06:25<@Alberth>adding JPS would be more useful though :p
06:26<@Alberth>but the theory doesn't entirely fit, it needs a little adaption for our kind of grid
06:32<andythenorth>not many different ways to draw winding wheels
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06:34<@Alberth>I like the "unsidcovered ore" :p
06:34<@Alberth>we don't know where it is, but let's draw it here
06:34<andythenorth>ha ha
06:35<@Alberth>for variation, a mine near the water would be nice
06:36<@Alberth>maybe have a few with bigger stock-piles?
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06:37<@Alberth>hi hi
06:38<@Alberth>or L shape or so
06:38<@Alberth>or Z shape, for no good reason
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07:02<@Alberth> std::string save & load seems to work (tested for grfconfig filename)
07:03<@Alberth>SLE_CONDSTR(GRFConfig, filename, SLE_STDSTRING, 0, 222, SL_MAX_VERSION), The "0" is not so nice
07:05<@Alberth>VAR however is quite determined to keep variable size and save size the same
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07:12<Zuu>I hope I didn't break more than I fixed by releasing a SuperLib and CluelessPlus update after 1-2 years since last one. :-)
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07:17<frosch123>Alberth: some weird extra space in newgrf_config.h #include
07:18<frosch123>Alberth: why does this affect the savegame version?
07:18<frosch123>why does the format within the savegame change?
07:22<frosch123>the current string storage in savegames seems the save the stringlength and then the content
07:22<frosch123>i don't see why that would be different for std::string
07:25<@Alberth>it doesn't change the savegame, it's something I copied from a previous attempt, as saveload code tends to crash if you don't do it exactly right :p
07:26<@Alberth>so I did this as a small-scale separate experiment to get it running
07:26<frosch123>ah, ok :)
07:26<@Alberth>tbh I am tempted to make the variable and file store descriptions an object :p
07:30<Samu>what are you testing?
07:31<Samu>are you loading different AI versions of the same AI? if so, i did some ugly patch which allows loading different versions, can't recall details
07:32<@Alberth>adding std::string save and load capabilities to the saveload code, so we can use std::string variables
07:32<Samu>it's not about AI chunk saveload related?
07:33<@Alberth>nope, it's a level under that, ie load and save of strings as service to the chunk loaders/savers
07:34<Samu>just in case it's related
07:34<@Alberth>frosch123: new game version makes that the _filename == NULL can be removed
07:35<Samu>sorry, if i couldn't be of help
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07:40<@Alberth>if (IsSavegameVersionBefore(222)) { if (_filename == NULL) { c->filename = ""; ..
07:44<frosch123>but why does it need that _filename stuff?
07:44<@Alberth>or this would crash: std::string *s = (std::string *)ptr; if (len == 0) { *s = "";
07:44<frosch123>if the savegame format does not change, it should not require the CONDSTR
07:45<frosch123>+ SLEG_CONDSTR(_filename, SLE_STR, 0x40, 0, 221),
07:45<frosch123>+ SLE_CONDSTR(GRFConfig, filename, SLE_STDSTRING, 0, 222, SL_MAX_VERSION),
07:45<frosch123>^^ this is the part that looks wrong to me
07:45<@Alberth>I know
07:45<frosch123>it should not require distinguishing savegame versions
07:45<@Alberth>but std::string s = NULL wont fly
07:47<frosch123>where does the NULL come from?
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07:48<@Alberth>from the loader, in < 222, see _filename handling
07:48<frosch123>but why is there a _filename in the first place?
07:49<@Alberth>does a savegame store NULL ?
07:49<frosch123>it's just an empty string
07:49<@Alberth>right, so the SLE_STR magic does that
07:49<frosch123>that's what i meant before
07:49<frosch123>it does not need a change in the savegame format
07:50<frosch123>you can load the same format as std::string
07:50<frosch123>with no change to the savegame
07:50<@Alberth>I was assuming that NULL and "" and "feijrg" are all different in a savegame
07:50<@Alberth>but apparently not :)
07:51<frosch123>as i read it, it writes the length and then the content
07:51<frosch123>SlString tuirns length 0 into NULL
07:51<frosch123>so, technically loading a savegame never results in "", only NULL
07:52<@Alberth>pity about the distinction between "" and NULL, but fair enough
07:53<@Alberth>it will likely work for all relevant cases
07:53<frosch123>i think that is just ottd coding style
07:53<frosch123>many string functions we have turn "" into NULL
07:53<frosch123>"" and NULL are treated equivalent
07:54<@Alberth>makes sense
07:55<@Alberth>will remove the save game conversion, no worries :)
07:55<@Alberth>what about the additional "0" in SLE_CONDSTR(GRFConfig, filename, SLE_STDSTRING, 0, 222, SL_MAX_VERSION), ?
07:57<frosch123>that's to make sure we do not load savegames with strings which are too long for stringbuffers
07:59<frosch123>currently some strings are stored in memory as malloced-pointer, some are fixed arrays
07:59<frosch123>the format in the savegame does not change
07:59<frosch123>but in case of the fixed-size array, loading savegames has to check for buffer overruns
07:59<frosch123>actually, is STRB still used?
08:00<frosch123>_ai_saveload_name <- only in ai :/
08:01<frosch123>i guess if those two places in ai and game sl can be changed to std::string, then we can remove STRB
08:01<frosch123>which would mean we have again a "1 more possible memory-primitives" :p
08:05<@Alberth>I am quite tempted to make SLE_FILE_STRING and SLE_VAR_STDS objects (and also for all other kinds), and move a lot of code to such object instances
08:07<frosch123>just please don't overload operator << and >> for input/output :)
08:10<frosch123>Alberth: i think STRB can more or less directly be replaced with STDS
08:11<frosch123>the 4 uses should directly work with std::string, and it does not required changing stuff throughout ottd
08:11<@Alberth>I used << and >> a while in the 90's, but have since reverted to printf or write/fwrite
08:11<@Alberth>likely it gets printed at a few places, but AI code is relative small
08:13<Eddi|zuHause>the "cout << blah" stuff was probably one of the weirdest things i saw when learning C++
08:14<@Alberth>One guy coded | and - operators, so you could draw a rectangle in ascii art and it would print its area :p
08:15<@Alberth>He even extended it to 3d by drawing boxes with / :p
08:16<@Alberth>I think it's a good visual programming language
08:19<Eddi|zuHause>can you overload operators to have embedded brainfuck? :p
08:22<@Alberth>likely you can :)
08:22<frosch123>i think c++ still has no unicode identifiers
08:22<frosch123>otherwise you can likely use ideographic spaces
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09:02<Wolf01>Mmmmh I don't know if I want to play Astroneer, Transport Fever, Fallout 4, Diablo 3 or just try to make another map array exercise in C# for my games :|
09:06<supermop_home>Wolf01: want to play "figure out a new more attractive design for my online portfolio"?
09:07<Wolf01>I'm not the right one to ask for artistic things
09:08<Wolf01>I'm only good with squares, not even rounds
09:08<supermop_home>forgot about this:
09:09<Wolf01>Too much detail for me
09:09<supermop_home>maybe I should find the old hdd with those models on it
09:11<Wolf01>I want to do a voxel port of my tank game, but I'm not even sure how to begin that
09:11<Wolf01>I already made the tanks btw
09:11<supermop_home>voxel-y sprites, or actual voxels?
09:11<Wolf01>Actual voxels
09:12<Wolf01>With physics too
09:12<supermop_home>sounds like a lot of work?
09:12<Wolf01>I don't know
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09:21<Neuneu>Hey there
09:21<Neuneu>i've got a question around Ottd, can someone help me ?
09:23<TrueBrain>!topic 3
09:24<TrueBrain>@topic 3
09:24<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: topic [<channel>]
09:24<TrueBrain>@topic #openttd 3
09:24<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: topic [<channel>]
09:25<Neuneu>otherwise i can still use the forum to ask my question
09:26<@Alberth>it's highly unlikely anyone knows anything :)
09:26<Neuneu>i thought i would be faster here if anyone could answer me live
09:26<TrueBrain>Neuneu: read the topic ;) "don't ask to ask, just ask"
09:26<@Alberth>the point is mostly, don't ask to ask
09:26<@Alberth>hi hi TB
09:27<TrueBrain>@get 3
09:27<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Don't ask to ask, just ask
09:27<Neuneu>month ago, there were a website for french people, was working fine but all of a sudden, it goes offline
09:27<TrueBrain>I FOUND IT! :D (took me long enough)
09:27<Neuneu>on this website we could see some french server, if they were live or not
09:27<Neuneu>the year, number of player, the land
09:27<Neuneu>kind a like some live intel from the server list
09:28<Neuneu>my server was on this list and the webmaster asked me to use an blocked ip to keep traking
09:28<Neuneu>as it's closed now, i'd like to do it for my own server on my website
09:29<Neuneu>but i don't know how to add this and how recover this intel from the main ottd server
09:29<@Alberth>frosch123: STRB is also in ini files
09:30<TrueBrain>Neuneu: see my URL; that is all we officially support
09:30<TrueBrain>there are tools that do similar, but I dont know any
09:30<@Alberth>you don't know if your own openttd program is running, and what?
09:31<Neuneu>i can see my server in the list ^^
09:31<@Alberth>what list? at your server there is only your program
09:32<@Alberth>I don't understand
09:32<TrueBrain>Alberth: on the URL I gave
09:32<TrueBrain>he can find his server there
09:32<TrueBrain>like .. all public servers are :)
09:33<Neuneu>i'd like to show this info on my own website
09:33<Neuneu>but not for the whole list, only for mine
09:33<TrueBrain>click on the server
09:33<TrueBrain>it shows you more info
09:33<TrueBrain>a single page for your server only
09:33<@Alberth>yeah, like I said, you know what's running at your machine, right?
09:33<TrueBrain>Alberth: he wants to publish it on a website .. that is not weird, is it?
09:33<Neuneu>yep i know but people don't
09:34<Neuneu>indeed, i'm on it, now how can i extract that
09:34<TrueBrain>officially we don't support that; but everything that generates that page is open source, so I am sure someone made something for it
09:34<TrueBrain>I just don't know who or what ..
09:34<@Alberth>write a script that generates some html or so, and make it available at your site
09:35<@Alberth>fold that script in your "start openttd" program, so it updates the site when you start openttd
09:35<@Alberth>I don't see the problem, imho
09:36<TrueBrain>Alberth: you are thinking too much as a programmer :)
09:36<Neuneu>perhaps easy for you but i do not code at all
09:36<@Alberth>now why would that happen :p
09:36<@Alberth>ok, we don't have tools that you can download for that purpose
09:36<Neuneu>i did my own website in php but i'm pretty sure it's bad coded ^^
09:37<Neuneu>ok,, i tryied
09:37<TrueBrain>to the forums! :D
09:37<Neuneu>perhaps someone have a solution
09:37<Neuneu>thx for your time
09:38<@Alberth>maybe, but sounds a bit unlikely
09:38<TrueBrain>good luck :)
09:38<@Alberth>good luck nonetheless :)
09:38<TrueBrain>Alberth: I know people created tools for it, as I had to block a few IPs abusing it :P
09:39<@Alberth>that sounds like typical human behavior :p
09:39<Neuneu>bah, i can also put a link on my server info in the main list
09:39<Neuneu>if the number do not change
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09:40<Neuneu>if i stay 108041
09:40<Neuneu>not sure
09:40<Neuneu>perhaps i change if i restart my server
09:40<TrueBrain>the number is tied to your IP:port
09:40<TrueBrain>so you should be fine
09:40<@Alberth>I am not sure what the point is, tbh, if people visit your site, they already know you, so why publish your server info there?
09:40<Neuneu>i'm dynamic, but i have a dyndns
09:41<TrueBrain>Alberth: so how many people are online etc?
09:41<Neuneu>because i'm going to create video tutorial about the game
09:41<Neuneu>people can know me, but for other games, i'm a World of warships streamer on Twitch
09:42<TrueBrain>your server has 3 public IPs .. that is interesting :D
09:42<TrueBrain>how many VPNs do you have? :P
09:42<Neuneu>dyndns is inside for sure
09:43<Neuneu>normaly i should have only 2, my dynamic and Dyndns
09:45<Neuneu>anyway, thx for all, got to go
09:45<Neuneu>see you later
09:46<TrueBrain>yippie, my docker-based CF is working again :)
09:47<TrueBrain>I like simplicity :D
09:47<@Alberth>docked cfs :p
09:47<@Alberth>it only took forever to make it work? :p
09:47<Neuneu>i forgot... is there a way to sort newgrf by date ?
09:47<TrueBrain>nah; it has been working for months (jan 2016 .. lalala)
09:47<Neuneu>from the newest to the oldest ?
09:47<TrueBrain>but I wanted it to be more modern
09:48<Neuneu>it would be fine to test new things
09:48<TrueBrain>Neuneu: NewGRFs don't have a "date" as such, so no
09:48<Neuneu>too bad
09:48<@Alberth>donwload count sort of works as date :p
09:48<Neuneu>hmm yes i didn't think to this
09:48<TrueBrain>or upload date?
09:49<TrueBrain>lot of warnings with OSX build .. hmm
09:49<TrueBrain>Deprecation warnings with 10.8
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09:55<TrueBrain>now how to test the binary result of the CF .. hmmmmmmm
09:55<frosch123>Alberth: damn, i only grepped in saveload :)
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10:06<Samu>question, what is the limitation of a fucntion that calls itself, how many times can it call itself?
10:07<@Alberth>until it runs out of stack memory
10:07<Samu>hmm how do i check that?
10:07<Samu>how many stacks remain
10:08<@Alberth>no idea, you have a problem with it?
10:09<Samu>i'm unsure
10:09<Samu>i'm checking TPFModeShip
10:09<@Alberth>running out of stack normally causes a crash
10:09<Samu>it limits to 50, and was wondering if it could be higher
10:10<@Alberth>and if you then print the stacktrace you get a long list of the same calls
10:11<@Alberth>assert that you don't reach the limit, and let it run. If it breaks at the assert you know you are reaching the 50 recursions
10:14<Samu> if (++tpf->rd.cur_length > 50) return;
10:15<Samu>was wondering if i could change to perhaps 128 or 127, one of these
10:18<Samu>if (dist >= 130) {
10:19<Samu>ah, 130
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10:28<Samu>weird, opf can do 90 degrees in some places, but in others it can't, hmm must check this better, i may be wrong
10:28<@Alberth>increasing such a limit expands search in all directions, so you cover 4 times as much surface if you double the limit
10:28<@Alberth>that also means you need at least 4 times as much time (probably more)
10:29<@Alberth>processing a single tile doesn't get faster, and you can do 4x as many
10:32<Samu>opf must be wrong, it reversed instead of following the track
10:33<Samu>following it would make a 90 degree turn
10:33<Samu>it prefered to reverse
10:33<Samu>why? :(
10:34<Samu>i have to repeat this
10:34<Samu>see exactly where it fails
10:36<@peter1138>oh dear
10:36<@peter1138>can't unlock my phone because my fingers are wrinkly because i was in the bath "a while"
10:42<andythenorth>such phone
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10:49<supermop_home>apparently I need to learn javascript now
10:50<drac_boy>what sorting out at home now? :)
10:55<supermop_home>want works section to be a grid of thumbnails that are in a random order and can be filtered by category
10:56<drac_boy>ah...grid I would know bit about but random hmm I don't think I could help with that aspect sorry
11:00<V453000>is it possible to make a newgrf which only adds alternative_sprites?
11:01<V453000>specifically 32bpp for another train set
11:01<supermop_home>i'd assume so
11:01<supermop_home>I thought I saw someting in specs about replacing other newgrf's sprites
11:02<drac_boy>nutty...hmm well I only know of actionA but probably not the same thing you had in mind tho
11:04<Samu>TrackEnterdirToTrackdir is the culprit
11:04<Samu>only accepts 45 degrees
11:04<drac_boy>supermop so what are the thumbnails made of?
11:04<V453000>maybe if I just define alternative_sprites without anything else it might work?
11:04<V453000>but I guess I have to define the basic 8bpp ones too?
11:07<@peter1138>hmm, not sure it's possible
11:07<V453000>and if I re-define the 8bpp as well
11:08<V453000>just a grf which does nothing else but define spriteset and alternative_sprites
11:08<supermop_home>I guess i need to decide what projects to show
11:08<@peter1138>pretty sure you can only override the base graphics
11:08<V453000>well yeah that is easy
11:08<V453000>I just want to distribute nuts in 8bpp, and 32bpp as addon
11:08<@peter1138>you can distribute 2 versions
11:09<@peter1138>one with 8bpp and one with 32bpp
11:09<V453000>bananas will only have 1 as latest
11:09<V453000>or different grfids
11:09<drac_boy>supermop oh so thumbnail of graphicsets or ?
11:09<@peter1138>oh dunno if bananas understands that
11:09<V453000>afaik there is no 32bpp/8bpp implementation for bananas
11:09<V453000>it's just a version
11:10<@peter1138>maybe it was waiting for someone to make such a grf to implement it :p
11:10<@peter1138>s/to implement/before implementing/
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11:10<V453000>no actually
11:10<V453000>there was one 32bpp trains grf which wanted to do exactly t hat
11:10<supermop_home>V453000 can you abuse this somehow:
11:11<V453000>supermop_home, like, defining spritesets and alternative_sprites in the 32bpp grf, and overriding just the default: ... callback?
11:11<V453000>ah no
11:11<V453000>probably whole vehicle
11:12<@peter1138>you'd need to define all the sprite chains as well
11:12<V453000>probably not impossible but a lot of pain
11:12<@peter1138>but openttd at least should be able to suport the split 8bpp/32bpp newgrf
11:12<@peter1138>if bananas doesn't then... it should :p
11:12<supermop_home>would be nice if there was a way for the one person on a mp server to use a 32bpp version while others use the 8bpp
11:13<V453000>there is a lot of things for 32bpp that would be very nice, like a gui switch for the blitter
11:13<V453000>supermop_home: I think I will just release 2 versions with the same grfId
11:13<V453000>8bpp official on bananas
11:13<V453000>32bpp optional from devzone
11:14<@peter1138>the md5sum is supposed to match if the action part of the newgrf is the same
11:14<@peter1138>at least, that was mooted
11:14<@peter1138>maybe that was never implemented either :S
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11:15<V453000>well then I guess I just remove 32bpp and not give two fucks
11:15<supermop_home>drac_boy no of design work
11:15<drac_boy>supermop the problem with "one person" and "others" is sync issues?
11:15<@peter1138>nah, looks like it is. i've never tested it though
11:15<drac_boy>ah ok..hope the work design goes well then supermop :)
11:16<@peter1138>V453000, so yeah, make 2 versions, as long as the action bit is the same, they will be compatible
11:16<V453000>can try eventually
11:16<Samu>peter1138: can u do me a favour? line 34 opf_ship.cpp, rename TrackdirByte to Trackdir
11:16<Samu>makes it must easier to follow the code
11:16<Samu>i tested it, and it works
11:17<Samu>much easier*
11:17<Samu>what's the difference between a byte and a int8?
11:18<Samu>line 24 has byte depth;
11:18<drac_boy>int=integer I imagine
11:18<Samu>it could have been int8
11:19<Samu>better yet; uint8
11:21<@Rubidium>Samu: you tested it on a PPC machine as well?
11:21<Samu>what's a ppc?
11:21<drac_boy>another platform samu :)
11:22<Samu>no, this is windows 10
11:24<Samu>bah, uint8 still shows a weird number
11:24<Samu>0 '\0'
11:25<Samu>what the heck is a 0 '\0'
11:25<Samu>uint16 then
11:26<@Rubidium>uint8 is usually interpreted as character
11:26<@Rubidium>(for historical reasons)
11:35<drac_boy>.anyway supermop I'm going for now
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11:42<andythenorth>V453000: giving two fucks more or less than giving three?
11:48<frosch123>you need to be careful to not run out of fucks to give
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11:59<+michi_cc>V453000: grfcodec comes with the grfstrip utility that can remove sprites from an existing GRF. As this doesn't change the grfid, bananas will not like it :)
12:00<V453000>I'm trying to save people from downloading the big 32bpp file :P
12:01<+michi_cc>for OpenTTD a grfstrip'ed file counts as identical for MP purposes.
12:02<+michi_cc>And I would definitely use that instead of hoping that NML will produce identical files for different sources.
12:04<Eddi|zuHause>funnily enough, bananas was the prime reason for grfstrip to even be written, but then was never adapted for it
12:05<@peter1138>i knew i wasn't imagining it
12:06<@peter1138>but yeah, bananas needs support :(
12:06<andythenorth>new bananas? o_O
12:08<@peter1138>managed to rebase tracerestrict
12:08<@peter1138>doesn't compile :p
12:09<Eddi|zuHause>what exactly is a tracerestrict anyway?
12:10<@peter1138>signals with conditional restrictions
12:10<@peter1138>no idea why it is called tracerestrict, i guess that is a ttdpatch name
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12:18<@peter1138>another patch doing weird things ;(
12:18<Eddi|zuHause>don't they all?
12:22<Wolf01>Some more than others
12:27<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27839 /branches/1.7 (7 files in 4 dirs) (2017-04-01 18:27:23 +0200 )
12:27<@DorpsGek>[1.7] -Update: Documentation
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>anyone played google maps today?
12:28<Wolf01>No, I don't like pacman
12:29<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27840 /tags/1.7.0 (11 files in 3 dirs) (2017-04-01 18:29:31 +0200 )
12:29<@DorpsGek>-Release: 1.7.0
12:29<Wolf01>Good, I have the announce for it
12:32<Wolf01>Got to go, bye, later
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12:56<LordAro>oh yeah, it's april
13:17<frosch123> <- we got a WOT announcement :)
13:17<frosch123>@topic set 1 1.7.0
13:17-!-DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.7.0 | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: hg, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | Logs: @logs | if this channel is really spammy
13:17<frosch123>blathijs: heffer: new release \o/
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13:27<supermop_home>home made pho ga for lunch
13:29<andythenorth>no forum announce? o_O
13:30<V453000>remoov canelz?
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>tbh, "yeah totally not kidding" makes it all the more credible
13:35<frosch123>andythenorth: i cannot impersonate wolf on the forums
13:36<andythenorth>are canals not being removed? :(
13:36<andythenorth>frosch123: poste it as a quote?
13:36<@peter1138>we only have rivers now
13:36<frosch123>maybe they are moved to the left and removed to the right
13:37<@peter1138>hmm, so... what can i use restricted signals for...
13:37<frosch123>sort trains to platforms
13:37<Eddi|zuHause>something incredibly micromanage-y i suppose
13:38<frosch123>to match cargo on train with station graphics
13:38<frosch123>you can also sort trains by speed onto paralell tracks
13:38<frosch123>everything you can do with conditional orders but not based on a signle vehicle list, but on all vehicle passing a location
13:43<andythenorth>gr8 :)
13:46<V453000>lol I forgot
13:46<V453000>how do I update newgrf on bananas? .grf or some .zip with changelog and readme?
13:48<frosch123>.zip with changelog and readme
13:48<frosch123>or just use musa
13:48<frosch123>don't you have a musa.bat or something, which does all the shit?
13:48<V453000>well not here
13:49<V453000>checking disk already
13:49<V453000>yeah haz musa
13:50<frosch123>btw. in case you still did not figure it out: we need to remove canals to make space for a brickland climate
13:50<frosch123>that's why wolf and andy are so keen on it
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds way more plausible now
13:55<@Rubidium>well, we removed the AI as well didn't we?
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13:57<@Rubidium>so it's cool that you announce vastly more configuration options for waterways. After all, canal/river is way too limited
13:57<Eddi|zuHause>well, we didn't remove the pathfinder, that was too early, apparently :p
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13:58<@Rubidium>lets see which bouncer is used more by people in this channel
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13:59<Eddi|zuHause>i don't use a bouncer
13:59<frosch123>bouncers are like graveyards
14:00<Eddi|zuHause>graveyards are probably great for necromancers
14:00<andythenorth>“what’s a bouncer?” :P
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14:01<Eddi|zuHause>big guy with turkish accent at the disco that says "you don't get in here"
14:01<@peter1138>hmm, could do with a bridge over this station :S
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14:02<andythenorth>child #1 has abandoned the canal he was building
14:02<andythenorth>he realised it needs 27 locks, and they can’t be fitted into the slopes
14:02<andythenorth>he’s making funny noises about it
14:02<@Rubidium>andythenorth: though mostly it's for lazy people that want to not connect to the channel the whole time but still get all important information buffered when they reconnect
14:03<andythenorth>isn’t it just so we always wonder why Yexo is here but never talks to us? o_O
14:03<LordAro>@seen Yexo
14:03<@DorpsGek>LordAro: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 4 years, 17 weeks, 4 days, 4 hours, 47 minutes, and 3 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet
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14:04<V453000>hi Hazzard :)
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14:08<V453000>musa borkd xd
14:08<V453000>bananas might be enough
14:09<V453000>ok not
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14:15<V453000>I might have updated python meanwhile
14:16<V453000>apparently old print didn't need print()
14:16<V453000><- super pro at python now
14:16<V453000>can fix prints
14:17<frosch123>python2 -> python3
14:17<frosch123>is musa python2?
14:17<V453000>was 2.6 before I believe
14:17<V453000>now I have 3.5
14:18<V453000>ok there is apparently more problems than that
14:18<frosch123>i guess we need a volunteer to port musa to python3 then :)
14:19<V453000>yeah it's not just prints XD
14:19<frosch123>V453000: <- try that
14:19<V453000>will try to run it with 2.7 I have on disk first
14:19<andythenorth>‘probably fine'
14:21<@Rubidium>what a moron it must have been to make the choice to use python2 instead of python3...
14:21<frosch123>i forgot since when python3 exists
14:22<frosch123>but musa is from 2012 or so
14:22<frosch123>3.0 is 2008
14:23<frosch123>3.2 is 2011, which i believe was the first 3.x version i saw somewhere
14:23<V453000>omg it's broken anyway
14:23<V453000>invalid syntax in the .bat for uploading :()
14:25<V453000> any ideas?
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14:27<frosch123>V453000: don't pass the bat to python
14:27<frosch123>put python inside the bat
14:28<V453000>there we go
14:29<V453000>I was running a bat in python
14:29<V453000>probably need to sleep more
14:29<frosch123>or drink more?
14:29<V453000>why not both
14:30<V453000>ok so there is 'new' nuts for 5th birthday :)
14:30<frosch123>so nuts is almost exact age as f?
14:31<V453000>nuts is older
14:31<V453000>I released first version of nuts a day after kovarex did his first factorio commit
14:31<frosch123>ah, so release vs. first-commit :)
14:34<frosch123>win :)
14:35<frosch123>i like the "what about oil rigs" :)
14:35<V453000>there goes some fuel to fire
14:35<@peter1138>V :D
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14:40<andythenorth>reddit eh
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14:41*andythenorth can’t shake the such meme
14:41<andythenorth>my commits are now stuff like ‘such changes'
14:42<frosch123>maybe vary it a little, for bug fixes you could use "such andy"
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14:50<andythenorth>meh, changing newgrfs crashes ottd
14:50<V453000>1/4 thing?
14:54<V453000>can someone help me? I need a python script / replace pattern in npp++ which would take this line alternative_sprites(BULLDOZED_1_0, ZOOM_LEVEL_IN_4X, BIT_DEPTH_32BPP, "gfx/LAND_OUTPUT_0000.png") { template_LANDSCAPE_x4(0,1) }
14:55<V453000>duplicate the line and turn it into bit_depth_8bpp
14:55<V453000>for any line with alternative_sprites and _zoom_level_in_4x
14:55<V453000>oh and filename to _8bpp instead of _0000
14:56<V453000>I could do it manually but it's like 6000 sprites
14:57<andythenorth>you need a templater :P
14:57<V453000>the template is the same
14:57<V453000>just need this one line for each of this definition
14:57<andythenorth>where’s the source?
14:57<V453000>but yeah I get your point
14:58<V453000>some of the templates (the ones which require a mask) will break
14:59<frosch123>V453000: does npp++ have regular expression replace?
15:00<V453000>like replace A for B/
15:00<frosch123>does it have a "regular expression" or "regex" checkbox in the search/repalce dialog?
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15:00<V453000>but idk if I can say -something- *anything* -something-
15:00<V453000>regular expression yes
15:00<andythenorth>V453000: is it every ‘BIT_DEPTH_32BPP’ you need to replace?
15:01<V453000>andythenorth: no, only the line with x4 zoom needs to be duplicated
15:01<V453000>and in the duplicate I need to replace that bit depth to 8bpp
15:01<V453000>basically I have defined 8bpp, 32bpp x1 and x4 zoom
15:01<V453000>and want to add 8bpp x4 zoom
15:01<V453000>if the 8bpp x4 zoom would be a separate parameter option, big bonus
15:01<V453000>if the regular expressions work, I guess it's fine
15:02<V453000>had no idea regular expressions means this
15:02<andythenorth>I would do readlines(), check if ZOOM_LEVEL_IN_4X, then split and join on BIT_DEPTH_32BPP
15:02<andythenorth>but eh, I never learnt regexp
15:02<V453000>andythenorth: yeah but then there is the thing that some have _mask_ as well
15:03<frosch123>V453000: <- try that
15:03<andythenorth>joy such
15:03<frosch123>if that does not work, try replacing "\1" with "$1" and so on
15:04<frosch123>if that does not work try replacing the "&" with an repeat of the 32BPP STUFF
15:04<frosch123>make a backup before trying :p
15:04<V453000>& alternative_sprites(BULLDOZED_1_0, ZOOM_LEVEL_IN_4X, BIT_DEPTH_8BPP, "gfx/LAND_OUTPUT_8bpp.png") { template_LANDSCAPE_x4(0,1) }
15:04<V453000>spitted out this
15:04<V453000>so it works
15:05<V453000>yeah backup is sure
15:05<frosch123>ok, then replace the & with "\1BIT_DEPTH_32BPP\2_0000.png\3" :)
15:05<V453000>what the fuck even
15:06<frosch123>the \<number> refer to the (.*) in the search term
15:06<V453000>ok I don't understand it but it works
15:06<V453000>now I just need to go solve the bridges
15:07<V453000>and how would I add if (param_8bppx4 == 1){ to front and } to end of line?
15:08<frosch123>that would not work anyway
15:08<frosch123>you cannot put "if" around "alternative_sprites"
15:08<V453000>:d why?
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15:08<frosch123>just use the grfstrip too
15:09<V453000>hm yeah it doesn't work :D
15:09<V453000>ok wtf is grfstrip
15:09<frosch123>it's part of grfcodec
15:10<frosch123>it removes all 32bpp sprites from a newgrf without changing grfid or md5sum
15:10<V453000>that's not what I want
15:10<frosch123>so it can be used in multiplayer while others use the 32bpp version
15:10<V453000>I just wanted to make it a parameter whether the grf supplies 8bpp in x4 zoom or just in x1
15:10*andythenorth needs to somewhat draw this
15:10<V453000>guess I just define 8bpp in x4 and not give shit
15:11<+michi_cc>V453000: It has parameters, it can strip/not strip that too.
15:11<V453000>michi_cc: but it will still be 2 files?
15:11<+michi_cc>You start with a file that contains all sprites and selectively strip stuff out.
15:12<V453000>how does it work in general and how do I use it?
15:12<frosch123>V453000: a parameter would not work in multiplayer
15:12<V453000>I make a newgrf, I upload it
15:12<V453000>frosch123: yeah that's fine
15:12<V453000>brix is a grf to be used as static anyway
15:13<@peter1138>if it's a parameter, the sprites will still be there
15:13<@peter1138>so what's the point
15:13<@peter1138>just use grfstrip!
15:13<@peter1138>and maybe bananas will eventually support it
15:13<V453000>do I understand it correctly that grfstrip means having 2 .grf files?
15:13<V453000>good then I just make the full file for now and will see what to do later
15:13<frosch123>which will be considered compatible by ottd
15:14<V453000>can try later
15:14<V453000>for now, how do I alternative_sprites(BRIDGES_head_road_01, ZOOM_LEVEL_IN_4X, BIT_DEPTH_8BPP) { template_BRIDGES_heads_x4(0,0,"gfx/BRIDGES_8bpp.png","gfx/BRIDGES_mask_8bpp.png") } while removing the mask definition?
15:15<V453000>I see there are some \1 \2 \3
15:15<V453000>what does it mean exactly?
15:16<V453000>the .* is just for "anything" ?
15:16*peter1138 ponders fs6155
15:17<@peter1138>the fact that it may not show as refittable when it may be bugs me
15:18<frosch123>V453000: "." matches any character, ".*" matches any amount of any character
15:18<frosch123>"()" groups stuff, and \<number> references the n-th ()-group
15:19<V453000>ah I see
15:20<frosch123>V453000: <- for more advanced stuff, check that
15:20<@peter1138>don't have 1st beer when firsty
15:20<V453000>frosch123: probably not for now, kind of overwhelmed
15:21<V453000>I barely understand this first
15:21<V453000>fixing my templates for now
15:21<frosch123>your coworkers should know
15:22<V453000>not with coworkers now
15:22<V453000>need to finish this tonight
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15:23<frosch123>Wolf01|Phone: good work, you completely fooled reedit
15:23<Wolf01|Phone>The weblog is broken XD
15:24<Wolf01|Phone>Also this client is broken...
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15:28<Wolf01|Phone>App loses focus, app disconnects, easy
15:28<Wolf01|Phone>BTW, I'm high on ginger ale
15:28<frosch123>i used AndChat on my phone, works fine
15:29<Wolf01|Phone>I'm on windows :P
15:30<frosch123>just say it's not your phone
15:31<@peter1138>Ginger ale is wicked shit maaaannnn
15:31<Wolf01|Phone>I'm completely stuffed, big Irish burger... I need another ginger ale
15:34<V453000>frosch123: it's making a new line for me :D
15:35<V453000>other than that it works
15:35<V453000>but there is a new line between the old and new
15:35<frosch123>V453000: "\n" means newline
15:40<V453000>omg automation so sick
15:40<V453000>almost done
15:41<Wolf01|Phone>I should automate my way home
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15:42<Wolf01|Phone>Was about to ask what hour is it...
15:43<Wolf01|Phone>Then I noticed that timestamp on every line XD
15:43<frosch123>now you only need to guess the timezone
15:47<Wolf01|Phone>Ads on this app suggest me to download alphabet games... Am I so hopeless?
15:48<frosch123>yes, almost none of your words are valid italian
15:52<Wolf01|Phone>We should really make a branch with max ships to 0, hardcoded, just to bother Reddit more XD
15:53<Wolf01|Phone>Maybe somebody could also replace water graphics with a desert
15:54<TrueBrain>why a branch? :D
15:55<Samu>i just implemented max_penalties for all
15:55<Samu>opf, npf and yapf
15:55<Eddi|zuHause>... who else would make that suggestion :p
15:56<Samu>went a bit further with npf and implemented a max_penalty for road vehicles and trains when searching for a depot
15:57<Samu>yapf was already doing this with trains, and I have no idea how it is on road vehicles, didn't look yet
15:57<Samu>yapf now does it for ships
15:58<Wolf01|Phone>Yeah, too bad it will be useless when we'll remove ships
15:58<Wolf01|Phone>And replace them with MadMax vehicles
15:59<TrueBrain>Stardust transportation!
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>just remove canals and include wetrails instead
16:00<V453000>frosch123: it worked!!! :D
16:01<TrueBrain>you sound surprised
16:01<@Alberth>regexp magic for the win!
16:01<TrueBrain>if you use regexp to solve a problem, you now have two problems
16:02<Wolf01|Phone>Ahaha agreed
16:02<V453000>oh, the 8bpp obviously is missing the recolour masks :>
16:02<V453000>well, relatively easy to fix
16:02<frosch123>V453000: don't forget to uncheck the "regex" checkbox, or you will be confused the next time you search for something containing "("
16:10<Wolf01|Phone>Ok, time to go home
16:10<@peter1138>time for moar beer
16:11<Wolf01|Phone>Best I can do is filling myself with tea or ginger ale
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16:30<Wolf01>Oh, back in my den
16:31<Wolf01>"Plz dont remove canals....." tt-f XD
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16:45<Samu>* @todo max_distance not used by YAPF for road vehicles.
16:45<Samu>max_distance aka max_penalty
16:46<Samu>not done on yapf
16:46<Samu>ok, so, i think i know how to do it, at least i have an idea
16:49<Samu>case VPF_YAPF: max_penalty =; break; yeah, the code is also sending a value already, but does nothing with it
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17:23<Samu>npf is complicated to create comments, it's too abstract
17:24<Samu>not really sure where to put a comment like this /* Finish if we already exceeded the maximum path cost (i.e. when * searching for the nearest depot). */
17:24<Samu>it sends proc stuff to aystar, and aystar does everything
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18:05<@peter1138>Samu, i commented on fs6548
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18:24<Samu>peter1138: in my opinion, if you want to do it the other way
18:25<Samu>i'd exclude buoys, ships can walk in all direction on buoys, unlike locks and depots
18:26<Samu>allow spawning on buoys and not on the others, so the exact opposite of how it is
18:26<Samu>my thought was, since it already allows on the others, it would only make sense to allow on buoys
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19:55<Samu>v5 is out
19:56<Samu>penalties for everyone!
19:57<Samu>everybody asleep?
19:59<Samu>funny that juanjo also working on the same thing
19:59<Wolf01>Eh what? Ah yes, I should sleep
19:59<Speedy>mee too
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20:03<Samu>wow, his code is very much alike mine, lol
20:06<Samu>is juanjo on irc?
20:06<Samu>we should talk
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21:11<luaduck>yo, trying to debug a segfault when running under docker, what's the easiest way to get openttd to vomit a stacktrace?
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21:38<luaduck>gdb is throwing me a "no stack" when doing bt after running make run-gdb
22:03<luaduck>nevermind, needed to be in privileged mode: says it's throwing an exception in LZMASaveFilter
22:27<luaduck>for the record, I've documented the fault at
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---Logclosed Sun Apr 02 00:00:51 2017