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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-04-02

---Logopened Sun Apr 02 00:00:51 2017
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02:04<@peter1138>luaduck, https://bugs.openttd.org/
02:05<@peter1138>though i'd be surprised if anything had changed in ottd
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03:49<Eddi|zuHause>luaduck: in debug builds, there is a key that deliberately crashes the game (i think it's something like Alt+0, but i'm not sure)
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04:03<__ln__>http://mentalfloss.com/article/69699/11-examples-odd-dialect-called-eu-english
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04:11<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: i'm not quite sure i understand all of this
04:11<Eddi|zuHause>especially the "important" paragraph
04:19<__ln__>i guess they're implying "important" is not a word that would normally be used with "amount"... however, such combination seems to be used outside of EU texts all over the web.
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04:23<@Alberth>:o such late time
04:23<@Alberth>hi hi
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04:49<Wolf01>Moin
04:50<Wolf01>Meh hangover from ginger ale...
04:53<@Alberth>moin!
04:56<ZirconiumX>Hi Alberth
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05:17<Samu>hi
05:17<Eddi|zuHause>"Animal Adventure Park Giraffe Cam" yeah, that is certainly what i was looking for, youtube...
05:18<Wolf01>I don't want to look at youtube suggestions after what I've seen lately
05:21<Eddi|zuHause>"You have reached the Russian embassy, your call is very important to us. To arrange a call from a Russian diplomat to your political opponents, press one.
05:21<Eddi|zuHause>To use the services of Russian hackers press two.
05:21<Eddi|zuHause>To request election interference, press three and wait until the next election campaign. Please note that all calls are recorded for quality improvement and training purposes."
05:24<V453000>is?
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05:40<@Alberth>hi V453000, nice blog, but "So I re-used some of the BRIX sources and code, and continued" <-- shouldn't that be RAWR ?
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05:42<@Alberth>yo andy
05:42<andythenorth>lo
05:43<Wolf01>o/
05:47<Samu>https://1drv.ms/v/s!Ah9vX-Q9n7IjilbCYvOwjrUqH_u5
05:47<Samu>does it open?
05:48<andythenorth>video of two screens?
05:48<Samu>yes
05:53<V453000>Albrth yeah need to proofread at least once, was tired yesterday
05:55<@Alberth>not a good time to post important news :)
05:56<V453000>important are products, words less :)
06:00<@Alberth>pictures say many words :D
06:01<V453000>take much time to make though :P
06:01<@Alberth>pictures also take many words :p
06:01<@Alberth>but it's good to see you have a clear goal, that is half the project, often
06:03<V453000>yeah, let's see how many times it changes
06:04<V453000>but a decision "won't do new big features" is easy to follow usually :P
06:06<Wolf01>"I mostly use canals to divert multi level rivers. Gonna need an alt solution now :(" Lol
06:08<@Alberth>lots of canal discussion :)
06:09<Wolf01>I really moved the waters eh :D
06:09<@Alberth>haha :)
06:09<@Alberth>V, new big features are usually just moved to the next project :p
06:10<Wolf01>Shame nobody was like "wow NRT might be in trunk" but everyone "Don't remove canals plz"
06:10<V453000>we'll see
06:10<andythenorth>if you go trolling, you get what you get
06:11<Wolf01>If only I were more smart, I would have prepared some "NotShips" branch with ships disabled and desert in place of the water
06:12<Wolf01>And linked that in the announce, with screens to
06:12<Wolf01>*havok*
06:14<Wolf01>I love how mean andy could be XD https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1184829#p1184829
06:14<andythenorth>I used a smiley
06:14<andythenorth>that’s not mean, that’s English :P
06:15<Wolf01>:D
06:15*andythenorth is always surprised how direct mainland Europeans are :P
06:16<Wolf01>BTW, we should really consider to remove canals and make them an addon (smiley)
06:17<andythenorth>srsly
06:18<Wolf01>Like is tramway
06:26<@Rubidium>well... how many people are asking for ye olde AI?
06:26<V453000>andythenorth: iz brix :)
06:26<V453000>the converted 8bpp is actually almost unusable because of some things
06:26<Wolf01>Eh, I want old bugs reintroduced... mmmh, this might be the next year's april fool joke
06:26<andythenorth>iz? o_O
06:26<V453000>slopes look shit, shadows look shit
06:26<V453000>andythenorth: look iz
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06:27<andythenorth>where iz?
06:27<andythenorth>not in tt-f?
06:27<V453000>tt-f, openttdcoop blog, bananaz
06:29<Samu>can't embed videos on the forum?
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06:29<andythenorth>V453000: reckon you can keep up with how fast I add cargos to FIRS? o_O
06:30<V453000>andythenorth: eventually :P
06:30<V453000>the universal wagon makes sure it techically works, regarding sprites it's harder
06:30<V453000>I want to rewrite the system to utilize the layering, and recolour masks
06:31<V453000>it's so much less sprites for so much better result & maintainability
06:34<andythenorth>much
06:35<V453000>I mainly retrospectively regret not utilizing the recolours on cargo things
06:36<andythenorth>recolours are my favourite way to cargo
06:36<andythenorth>Road Hog tankers just change colour for cargo :P
06:36<V453000>it's how NUTS does it as well, just not in code :)
06:37<V453000>I actually managed to do it quite fast after doing thousands of sprites that way
06:37<andythenorth>I considered that box wagons should change colour too
06:37<V453000>but yeah still just way much pain
06:37<andythenorth>and whether I could match them to cargo colour in game
06:37<andythenorth>but eh
06:37<V453000>everything should change colour
06:37<V453000>rainbow everything
06:37<V453000>slugs rule
06:37<V453000>G_G
06:37<V453000>automate
06:37<andythenorth>such game
06:38<Wolf01>I'm having some ideas for a new industry set. How many different cargo an industry can accept and produce?
06:39<Wolf01>Also, can industries change cargo with ages?
06:39<andythenorth>3 in, 2 out
06:39<andythenorth>and no
06:39<Wolf01>Meh
06:39<andythenorth>they can change when constructed
06:40<Wolf01>I need like 8 in, 8 out and year based
06:40<Eddi|zuHause>you probably won't get that...
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06:42<andythenorth>sounds awful :D
06:42<andythenorth>what’s the idea?
06:43<@Alberth>build clusters of industries :p
06:44<Wolf01>Some late game futuristic stuff
06:44<@Alberth>bbl
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06:48<V453000>Wolf01: ?
06:48<V453000>wat be idea?
06:49<Wolf01>Idea died, that was the core point to start from :(
06:49<V453000>what
06:50<Wolf01>Grf set in cooperation with a gamescript to make a sort of puzzle game
06:50<V453000>nice, any specifics ? :)
06:51<Wolf01>More different raw materials you deliver to a processor, more different goods it produces
06:52<Wolf01>Also different ages might impact on what you might obtain from it
06:52<V453000>hmmm
06:52<V453000>would be nice
06:52<V453000>if can be done
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06:53<Wolf01>Quak
06:53<andythenorth>one day, industries 3 in 2 out will probably get adjusted
06:53<Wolf01>It's a sort of chem factory game
06:53<andythenorth>but it’s probably not much net gain
06:53<Wolf01>And the final goal: build spaceships
06:55<V453000>never heard about building spaceships before :P
06:55<frosch123>hoi
06:55<V453000>hi
06:56<Wolf01>You bring in 8 cargo items and get spaceships as production
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07:02<Wolf01>I was looking for a sort of A->B->C+A->B->C->B->D+A+C->B->E industry chain with fictional cargo, lot of refitting and puzzling for delivering in restricted space
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07:06<V453000>seems to have gameplay idea -> I like it sofar
07:06<andythenorth>such kerbals
07:06<Wolf01>I think, I should go play factorio instead... it already has everything, also I can make the factory as I want :S
07:07<V453000>haha
07:07<Wolf01>Plus, I can ion cannon the creeps out of the map
07:15<luaduck>@logs
07:15<@DorpsGek>luaduck: https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd
07:16<luaduck>peter1138: I'll raise that bug later tonight
07:16<luaduck>once I have time to document exactly what libraries are getting pulled in
07:19<luaduck>my best guess is that alpine is rocking either a really new or a really really old version of lzma
07:19<Wolf01>I would like to know what weird sequence of characters makes the weblog to panic
07:22<frosch123>i already know :)
07:22<frosch123>it's php shit
07:27<Samu>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=76137&p=1184618#p1184618 do these videos work?
07:28<andythenorth>finally redrawn the iron ore mine http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8407/iron_ore_mine.png
07:28<andythenorth>no more temperate grass on non-temperate terrain
07:29<andythenorth>different enough to this? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8409/manganese_mine.png
07:34<frosch123>pile colors are common language to distinguish mines in various games
07:35<frosch123>i am just surprised by the water tanks
07:35<frosch123>i would expect them in some processing industry, not at the mine
07:36<andythenorth>iron ore tends to be processed on site http://s256.photobucket.com/user/industrialrailray/media/DSC04002.jpg.html
07:36<andythenorth>but eh
07:36<andythenorth>I am not convinced
07:36<andythenorth>there is other greeble I could replace them with
07:40<andythenorth>seems more like it needs a loading shovel
07:40<andythenorth>and some chimneys
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07:43<andythenorth>http://www.ontarioexplorations101.com/uploads/2/8/1/6/28168073/6947639_orig.jpg
07:46<Wolf01>Looks nice, andy
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08:08<andythenorth>making it better
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08:24<Wolf01>https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a0bV1YO_460s.jpg this joke make GB brexit a bit deadpool-ish
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08:34<andythenorth>openttd does not like grfs being changed under it
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08:41<andythenorth>crane or front loader iron ore mine?
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09:36<Samu>i hate to have to separate patches
09:36<Samu>when i do all at once
09:36<Samu>makes no sense, i don't get it
09:36<Samu>why separate things if they only make sense together
09:37<andythenorth>because big diff
09:38<@Rubidium>so you just throw eggs, mustard and potatoes in a fryer? After all, they only make sense together
09:39<@Rubidium>though... good luck making fries/crisps with mayonaise that way ;)
09:40<Samu> have to undo what i've done, just for the sake of being separated, it sucks
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09:52<andythenorth>if you commit atomically, it’s much easier
09:53<@peter1138>plus it looks like we're busier
09:53<Samu>bah, the forums are bugged, can't right click or it crashes the page
09:54<Samu>there goes my writtings
09:57<@peter1138>sounds more like your browser is buggy...
10:04<Samu>hit reply on some topic
10:04<Samu>the bottom part which shows the past posts is where I can't right click
10:04<Samu>it crashes
10:05<@peter1138>"crashes"
10:05<Samu>page gets stuck
10:05<@peter1138>works for me
10:05<Samu>browser says something about having to reload page as it wasn't answering a request
10:05<@peter1138>i bet you're using something shitty like edge anyway
10:06<Samu>i'm using edge
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10:26<@peter1138>hi
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10:28<andythenorth>done, for now http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8411/iron_ore_mine_2.png
10:34<@Alberth>feeling a bit blue? :)
10:35<@peter1138>it's CC, right?
10:35<@Alberth>looks very different from other mines, nice
10:35<@peter1138>well, IC
10:35<@peter1138>same range though heh
10:35<@Alberth>it's likely recourable, like the other mines
10:44<andythenorth>CC
10:45<andythenorth>probably needs snow
10:45<andythenorth>:P
10:45<andythenorth>bah
10:46<andythenorth>cola canals
10:46<andythenorth>not bad
10:46<@peter1138>pipelines
10:46<andythenorth>such
10:48<andythenorth>hmm
10:48<andythenorth>FIRS has a fertiliser plant
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10:52<@Alberth>piperoad rather than pipeline :)
10:53<frosch123>can camels also be called "desert ships" in english? (german has this allegory)
10:54<@peter1138>well once canals are removed we can fit pipes in their space
11:05<andythenorth>fertiliser is made from air
11:05*andythenorth considers a weird primary-secondary industry
11:13<andythenorth>also salt cargo
11:16*andythenorth also considers removing all industry date restrictions
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11:22<Zuu>Hello
11:27<@Alberth>hi hi
11:27<@planetmaker>good evening
11:28<@Alberth>:o evening already, indeed
11:39<Samu>i'm a terrible coder, damn
11:53<andythenorth>hmm
11:53<andythenorth>FIRS makefile needs work
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12:48<@peter1138>it's all gone quiet
12:48<@Alberth>it's sunday evening, and very good weather :)
12:48<@planetmaker>psst, don't disturb the silence :)
12:49<@peter1138>nobody told my weather to be nice :S
12:49<V453000>slugs don't talk
12:50<Wolf01>I would only talk about self pity, so better not talk
12:51<Samu>doing a fastforward test with my depots patch
12:51<Samu>from 1992 to 2050
12:51<Samu>will see which one takes more cpu time
12:52<Samu>2051*
12:52<@peter1138>lol profiling
12:52<Samu>yeah, i guess that is the term
12:57<@peter1138>not if you're doing it like that
12:58<Samu>don't know how else to test it
12:59<@peter1138>i'd suggest using a profiler
13:03<andythenorth>industry location, incomaptible industries checks
13:03<andythenorth>check distances to industries supplying inputs, industries processing outputs, or both?
13:03<Wolf01>Like a farm is incompatible with a mine?
13:04<andythenorth>iron ore mine has to be min 16 tiles from steel mill
13:04<andythenorth>hmm, maybe just check both ways, and special case supplies
13:09<Samu>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profiling_(computer_programming) - what do I need?
13:09<@Alberth>I have a somewhat love/hate relation with nearby related industries
13:10<andythenorth>+1
13:10<@Alberth>one the one hand it gives diversity, on the other hand, it's not making money :p
13:10<andythenorth>when it suits me, it suits me
13:10<andythenorth>and when it doesn’t…
13:11*Zuu have a noise issue. AP ending up being closer to a different town than you plan for need you to check that other towns noise limit instead, still keeping track of the future noise budget of the planned town in a upgrade scenario.
13:11<@Alberth>so I have become less decided on what is best
13:11<andythenorth>looks like current FIRS mostly enforces checks on primary <-> secondary
13:11<andythenorth>and not secondary <-> secondary <-> tertiary
13:12<Zuu>Easy solution is to only allow building new airport closest to the town it is planned for.
13:12<Zuu>hm.. my code is supposed to do that already ...
13:13<Zuu>Oh.. using AITile instead of AIAirport.
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13:23<@Alberth>you could also make it a feature to have some industries not too far away from each other :p
13:23<@Alberth>especially if you have slow dedicated wagons for the cargo :p
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13:24<Samu>got some results
13:24<Samu>28m21s with depots patch
13:24<Samu>28m02s without
13:24<Samu>that was yapf
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13:30<Samu> about ~1% slower
13:31<@peter1138>what map size and how many ships?
13:32<andythenorth>ha I got python in a loop
13:32<Samu>i used a savegame posted on the bugs
13:32<andythenorth>circular imports :l
13:32<Samu>used it
13:32<Samu>let me find
13:32<@peter1138>just tell me :
13:32<Samu>https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5531
13:32<Samu>89 ships i think, but there was more than just ships
13:37<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r27841 trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp (2017-04-02 19:36:53 +0200 )
13:37<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Don't consider locks or ship depots as clear water when placing industries.
13:37<Samu>oh noes
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14:01<andythenorth>ach
14:01<andythenorth>Alberth: I’ve managed to write an incompatible check that takes 30s
14:01<andythenorth>:P
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14:02<andythenorth>even python shouldn’t be that slow :|
14:03<@Alberth>oh, do enough, and it gets slow all by itself :p
14:04<@peter1138>dunno why i bother posting patches for george
14:05<@peter1138>i don't think he can ever test them
14:05<Samu>npf: 40m34s with depots patch
14:05<Samu>npf: 37m35s without
14:05<Samu>:(
14:06<Samu>i thought npf wasn't much different than yapf, what has gone wrong?
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14:11<Samu>about ~9% slower
14:13<andythenorth>ach, the incompatible industries check is much harder than it seems :P
14:17<andythenorth>the full list of industries isn’t known until they all been inited
14:17<andythenorth>but they need the incompatible check at init time
14:17<andythenorth>that direction is fundamentally impossible :P
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14:21<frosch123>if you want to make it more horrible, add incremental builds
14:22<frosch123>read the incompatible checks from a generated file
14:22<frosch123>it's empty the first time you build it
14:22<frosch123>it's filled the more often you recompile
14:23<frosch123>if you are lucky it converges at some point, but it can also toggle between multiple states :)
14:23<@peter1138>ew
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you need an absolute non-cyclic abstract grammar (ANCAG) for solving your initialization problem? :p
14:23<andythenorth>:P
14:26<andythenorth>hmm, now my check calculation takes about 0.2s
14:26<andythenorth>better than 30s
14:27<@Alberth>quite
14:28<andythenorth>dunno if it works yet :P
14:30<@Alberth>just a minor detail to work out :p
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14:33<@Alberth>hi hi
14:33<@peter1138>brix 0.0.1?
14:34<@peter1138>brix realism is xxxx
14:34<@peter1138>haha
14:37<Supercheese>Forum users' status: Fooled ☑ Not Fooled ☐
14:37<@Alberth>let's have a poll :p
14:37<Supercheese>NotFooledTypes when
14:37<@Alberth>:)
14:38<@peter1138>brix trains are a bit tall i think
14:38<@Alberth>yeti compatible, perhaps
14:38<@peter1138>V453000,
14:39<@peter1138>V453000, V453000, V453000
14:39<V453000>peter1138: are disabled by default, you never seen anything
14:39<andythenorth>and this is why the best malware are the ‘malware removal tools'
14:39<@peter1138>:D
14:39<@peter1138>V453000, no i meant to say
14:39<@peter1138>this is awesomne
14:39<@peter1138>-n
14:39<V453000>=D
14:40<V453000>well I like the proportions of ultra chibby a lot
14:40<V453000>but $time
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14:40<@peter1138>rough land isn't kidding
14:40<@peter1138>giant crater :p
14:41<Supercheese>ultrachib
14:42<V453000>tbh I am pretty ashamed of how BRIX looks atm
14:42<V453000>might motivate me to do something with it
14:42<V453000>hopefully
14:42<@peter1138>didn't see it last night as i don't usually read the graphics forums
14:42<V453000>I uploaded it at like 0:40 a.m. today
14:44<V453000>& the 8bpp is basically unusable
14:44<V453000>some grass just blends together so slopes are invisible
14:44<V453000>shadows are borken
14:44<V453000>etc
14:45<V453000>about as good proof of concept as zbase is to 32bpp :D
14:45<@peter1138>doesn't matter does it?
14:45<V453000>everything matters
14:45<@peter1138>oh yeah shadows
14:45<@peter1138>lol
14:45<@peter1138>basically you don't have them in 8bpp :D
14:45<V453000>yeah
14:46<@peter1138>i suppose you could do a black chequer dot pattern
14:46<V453000>just alpha cutout rules
14:46<V453000>I'll figure something out
14:46<V453000>likely the checker pattern yes
14:47<andythenorth>hmm
14:47<andythenorth>incompatible check might work
14:47<andythenorth>biab
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14:48<V453000>but overall i quite like the idea of 8bpp in x4 zoom
14:48<@peter1138>yeah, sure it's harder though
14:48<V453000>just needs tweaking the converter accordingly
14:48<@peter1138>ooh a guy chopping down a tree
14:48<V453000>I'm just going to make a better algorithm for it and then expose many settings to control it very well
14:49<V453000>for example if I see a certain terrain is getting a green I don't want it to get, I just ban that ID from that sprite/row/column/whatever
14:49<Samu>lost ships are a terrible thing for OPF, still waiting
14:52<Wolf01>I need to cheer up :(
14:53<V453000>Wolf01: what's wrong?
14:53<V453000>can't remove canals?
14:53<Wolf01>Nah, can't remove real life
14:54<@peter1138>heh, girder bridges are weird
14:54<V453000>old, new or both?
14:54<Samu>peter1138: provide me a good savegame
14:54<@peter1138>wait no
14:54<@peter1138>suspension
14:55<Samu>with ships doing weird things
14:55<V453000>yeah the colour masks are goign wild there I think
14:55<@peter1138>ok what's holding up the wooden bridge... haha
14:55<@peter1138>V453000, nah it's the pillar
14:55<V453000>built a tall bridge?
14:55<@peter1138>nope
14:55<V453000>good XD
14:56<V453000>seems to be proper fucked actually
14:56<@peter1138>tubular is awesome
14:56<Supercheese>Totally tubular
14:56<V453000>yez
14:57<V453000>tubular is the shit
14:57<@peter1138>semaphores lol
14:57<V453000>they make more sense than the original ones :P
14:58<Samu>20 game years to finish OPF test, zzzz
15:00<@Alberth>test-result: "Tester fell asleep"
15:02<Wolf01>OTTD needs functional tests
15:03<Wolf01>It also really needs some unit tests
15:04<Wolf01>Too bad that for what I've tried so far, the only way to test it is to start the game...
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15:10<@Alberth>"some" is an understatement :p
15:11<@Alberth>likely the tests will become a bigger maintenance effort than the program
15:12<Wolf01>Yes, like every other program with tests
15:12<@peter1138>unit test the unit tests!
15:13<Supercheese>Yo dawg, I heard you like tests
15:13<Wolf01>On my game I only tested the static functions, just to be sure the stateless things are working right
15:13<Supercheese>so we made tests for your tests so you can test while you're testin
15:14<V453000>sounds like automation
15:14<Wolf01>It is, just set up enough data providers :P
15:18<Samu>6 years to go
15:27<Samu>it's over
15:28<Samu>opf: 1h20m54s with depots patch
15:28<Samu>opf: 1h19m59s without
15:29<Samu>that's ~1% slower
15:30<Samu>only npf became too slow
15:30<Samu>~9% for some reason, why? :(
15:44<V453000>thank you for the forum post peter1138 :) I appreciate it a lot
15:52<@peter1138>hmm, NUTS appears twice in the content list
15:52<@peter1138>0.7.8 & 0.7.9
15:53<@peter1138>0.7.8 much bigger
15:54<@peter1138>oh i guess it is incompatible and therefore has a new grfid?
15:55<frosch123>usually that only happens if it is a dependency of something else
15:56<frosch123>0.7.8 is bigger because it contains 32bpp
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16:01<Zuu>Evil AI, using a very long signal block with PBS to cross a road. A short block is fine to save trucks, but 20-30 tiles blocking distance is a bit evil. :-)
16:04<V453000>what different grfid?
16:04<@peter1138>i dunno, i guessed wrong
16:04<V453000>iz same
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16:24<@peter1138>"but there clearly stays its not a joke."
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16:24<andythenorth>Do Not Press This Button
16:26<V453000>can someone explain to me what the shit is /r/place ?
16:28<Supercheese>no idea
16:28<Supercheese>looks like pixels
16:30<frosch123>V453000: apparently every user can draw a pixel every few minutes
16:31<frosch123>i have no idea how big the canvas is though, you only ever get some random section ro so
16:31<V453000>well yeah but in /r/factorio it's EVERYWHERE
16:31<frosch123>not just thee
16:31<V453000>I can imagine
16:31<frosch123>it's everywhere :p
16:31<frosch123>it's the hype of the week or so
16:32<frosch123>just go on vacation :p
16:32<V453000>well, gnight
16:32<V453000>solution there :P
16:32<Samu>zuu, did you make Epic ai or whatever it's called, sec, brb
16:32<frosch123>i saw a r/place screenshot with factorio though
16:32<frosch123>it may be about that
16:33<Samu>EpicTrans
16:33<Zuu>No. That is probably Trans.
16:33<Samu>Author is Tovermodus, do u know who that is?
16:34<Zuu>Oh.. there is one EpicTrans on bananas. Probably a fork of Trans.
16:34<LordAro>frosch123: 1000x1000, you can move around :p
16:34<LordAro>but yeah, essentially PvP MS Paint
16:34<LordAro>is the best way i've seen it described
16:35<frosch123>well, it will be taken over by bots
16:35<LordAro>not so far, as far as i'm aware
16:35<LordAro>fought off a 4chan botting attempt
16:38<LordAro>frosch123: https://www.reddit.com/place?webview=true probably makes it look a little better :p
16:38<Zuu>No idea who that is.
16:38<Zuu>The AI code is quite short, but it doesn't seem to deal with save/load.
16:39<frosch123>LordAro: there are way too many flags in that
16:39<LordAro>teehee
16:41<Samu>what's the difference between NULL and 0 again?
16:41<Zuu>I only made a few AIs :-) : Clueless(Plus), PAXLink, TownCars AI, IdleMore and Tutorial AI.
16:41<Zuu>Samu: Depends on the programming language.
16:41<Samu>it's a int
16:41<Zuu>Is it a pointer?
16:42<Samu>-   pfs.max_length = (max_penalty == NULL || max_penalty > OPF_MAX_LENGTH) ? OPF_MAX_LENGTH : max_penalty;
16:42<Samu>+   pfs.max_length = (max_penalty == 0 || max_penalty > OPF_MAX_LENGTH) ? OPF_MAX_LENGTH : max_penalty;
16:42<Samu>why did juanjo modified it from NULL to 0?
16:42<Samu>actually, it's uint
16:43<Samu>no wait, it's int
16:43<Samu>lol i'm stupid, my bad
16:43<Zuu>NULL is in general used to check if a pointer is equal to NULL. But 0 is usually used for integer 0.
16:44<Zuu>In C++ you can compare a pointer to 0 as NULL == 0, but in other languages that does not hold.
16:44<Zuu>But it is not very good style to compare a integer non-pointer variable to NULL if you mean to compare it to integer 0.
16:45<Zuu>NULL is coding style wise only for comparing with pointers.
16:45<Samu>Sometimes I pass max_penalty as 0, some other times i pass as OPF_MAX_LENGTH, but some other times I don't pass anything, but I suppose it's defaulted to OPF_MAX_LENGTH, or is it passed as NULL?
16:45<Zuu>Though not all C++ projects use NULL. Some use 0 for both integers and pointers.
16:46<Samu>how am i knowing it will be defaulted to OPF_MAX_LENGTH
16:47<frosch123>LordAro: your turn to point out "nullptr" :p
16:48<@peter1138>Samu, ... if it has a default value... that's the default value
16:48<@peter1138>if it doesn't have a default value, you have to provide it
16:49<Samu>static uint FindShipTrack(const Ship *v, TileIndex tile, DiagDirection dir, TrackBits bits, TileIndex skiptile, Track *track, uint max_penalty = OPF_MAX_LENGTH, TileIndex depottile = INVALID_TILE)
16:50<Samu>distr = FindShipTrack(v, tile2, ReverseDiagDir(enterdir), b, tile, &track)
16:50<Samu>i don't put anything past &track
16:50<Samu>is it gonna use the default?
16:50<Zuu>That will use the default values.
16:50<@peter1138>that's what default values are for, yes
16:51<Zuu>Sometimes called optional function/method arguments in docs.
16:51<Samu>static const uint OPF_MAX_LENGTH = 50; ///< The default maximum path length
16:51<Samu>it's uint? i guess it should be int
16:51<Samu>dam, i'm a terrible coder
16:52<Zuu>int is only needed if it needs to hold negative values like -1.
16:52<Samu>it never does
16:52<@peter1138>uint means unsigned int
16:53<@peter1138>negative values would seem bad for a penaltyu
16:53<@peter1138>-u
16:53<Samu>but when passing this value around multiple functions, sometimes it's int sometimes it's uint
16:53<Samu>but the value is always positive
16:53<Samu>it confuses me, i never know if i create a uint or int
16:54<Zuu>Imho it should be consistent uint, but maybe it is not in current code.
16:54<Samu>code isn't consistent
16:55<Samu>for example, in ship_cmd.cpp, it uses int max_penalty
16:55<Samu>or int max_distance
16:56<Samu>when it's passed to opf_ship.cpp, i have to compare this a uint with this int, something like uint < int, the compiler does not like this
16:56<Samu>if (distdepot <= (uint)max_penalty && distdepot < best_dist) {
16:56<Samu>i had to put (uint) there
16:57<Samu>then there's best_dist, it's uint
16:58<Zuu>Unless it use -1 anywhere as "no penalty", it may be best to make a -Codechange and fix it to consistently use uint at all places.
16:58<Samu>inside the pathfinder code it's also uint
16:58<@peter1138>there's no max_penalty in opf_ship.cpp
16:58<Samu>there's always a penalty
16:58<@peter1138>so the wrong type is your doing :p
16:59<Samu>if it's 0, then treat it as 50
16:59<LordAro>frosch123: i thought i couldn't mention that until the CF gets upgraded? :p
16:59<Samu>if it's not specified, trat it as 50
16:59<Samu>yes peter1138 it's my code, i suck right?
16:59<@peter1138>well just fix it properly instead of casting
16:59<Samu>but it's not consistent with everywhere else that already uses a penalty
16:59<Samu>everywhere else, it's int
17:00<frosch123>LordAro: btw. we got a new user adding changelogs to the wiki
17:00<Zuu>FindClosestRoadDepot do have the int/uint mismatch in trunk.
17:00<Zuu>Unless it was fixed the very last few days.
17:00<LordAro>frosch123: i shall have to inspect their work!
17:02<Samu>yes zuu, i guess it's not the only one
17:02<@peter1138>Zuu, ah i see
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17:03<@peter1138>qwll
17:03<Samu>it's int everywhere
17:03<@peter1138>src/pathfinder/yapf/yapf.h:FindDepotData YapfRoadVehicleFindNearestDepot(const RoadVehicle *v, int max_penalty);
17:03<@peter1138>src/pathfinder/yapf/yapf_road.cpp:FindDepotData YapfRoadVehicleFindNearestDepot(const RoadVehicle *v, int max_distance)
17:03<@peter1138>worse:
17:03<@peter1138>variable name is different :p
17:04<Zuu>But in that case all callers of FindClosestRoadDepot supply uint data, so changing FindClosestRoadDepot to uint would be possible without having it spread further away to other parts.
17:04<Samu>look at the other depots too, they're all ints
17:06<Zuu>So now its possible to speed up the game by a tiny fraction by removing a uint -> int conversion for all depot types assuming it is not needed deep in the depot finding methods. :-)
17:06<Samu>some say max_distance, some say max_penalty
17:07<@peter1138>max_distance seems more appropriate
17:07<@peter1138>it's not a penalty
17:07<Samu>it's both at the same time
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17:07<Samu>it's a penalty inside the pathfinder
17:07<Samu>a distance outside it
17:08<Samu>it's the total computed cost
17:08<Zuu>like a generalized cost possible
17:08<@peter1138>it's not a penalty inside the pathfinder
17:09<Samu>if it goes past that value, the pathfinder stops that node or something like that, won't look beyond that path
17:11<@peter1138>yes
17:12<Samu>case VPF_YAPF: max_penalty = _settings_game.pf.yapf.maximum_go_to_depot_penalty
17:12<Samu>config setting uses the name "penalty"
17:16<Samu>trains: uint max_penalty
17:16<Samu>FindClosestTrainDepot(Train *v, int max_distance)
17:17<Samu>heh, it's not consistent, but oh well
17:17<Samu>as long as it works
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17:18<@peter1138>^ what i posted up there :p
17:18<@peter1138>mismatching names for the same function
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17:18<@peter1138>bad :p
17:19<Samu>are you gonna fix that?
17:19<Samu>there's a lot of places it's being used and re-used
17:20<Samu>i think aystar, inside NPF, uses int for that value
17:20<Samu>it sometimes looks if the value is = -1, not entirely sure
17:21<Samu>== -1
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17:22<Samu>if (new_g == AYSTAR_INVALID_NODE) return;
17:22<Samu>AYSAR_INVALID_NODE is == -1
17:23<Samu>typo
17:24<Samu>new_g is the cost of something, forgot exactly what
17:25<Samu> case TRANSPORT_RAIL: _npf_aystar.CalculateG = NPFRailPathCost; break; case TRANSPORT_ROAD: _npf_aystar.CalculateG = NPFRoadPathCost; break; case TRANSPORT_WATER: _npf_aystar.CalculateG = NPFWaterPathCost; break;
17:25<Samu>ah, cost of the node, yeah, it's always positive then
17:25<Samu>or 0
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17:27<Samu>is this the reason why NPF is slow? it's doing uint to int conversions all the time?
17:27<@peter1138>yes!
17:27<@peter1138>(lol no)
17:28<Zuu>Slowness in programs in general comes from algorithms, not type casts or not using bit shifts etc.
17:38<Samu>regarding ships, npf is slow but not annoiyng, opf is slow and random but not annoying, yapf is best but with annoying "ship it lost" brief popups
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17:47<Samu>gonna experiment something with NPF, try to feed it two-way
17:47<Samu>see if that makes him faster
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18:23<Samu>can't do it, t.t
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18:26<@peter1138>erm, if i run a savegame multiple times without touching it, will the random stuff do exactly the same each time? i assume it will.
18:28<@peter1138>of course it should, else multiplayer would never work
18:30<Samu>yes, for the same builds
18:34<Wolf01>Samu, patch the game so for every new game it loads your colors and face instead of random
18:35<Samu>what?
18:49<Wolf01>Oh, the caboose problem seem fixed, my friend was pissed off to not be able to run steam trains without cabeese XD
18:52<@peter1138>you caboose
18:53<@peter1138>wonder what the problem was
18:53<Wolf01>No clue
18:53<@peter1138>nothing changed like that since i ... came back
18:53<Wolf01>He is still able to select € in 1850
18:54<Samu>just uploaded v6
18:54<@peter1138>i still can't in 2017 ;(
18:54<Samu>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1184731#p1184731
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>you won't for quite a long time i'm afraid
18:55<@peter1138>cunts
18:55<Wolf01>TBH, he has a strange computer, this evening chivalry didn't display class selection or team selection for him...
18:56<Eddi|zuHause>and my sleeping pattern doesn't align with my working pattern
18:57<Eddi|zuHause>which can't be good for my health
18:58<Wolf01>my sleeping pattern doesn't align with real life
19:03<Samu>@logs
19:03<@DorpsGek>Samu: https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd
19:06<ST2>Samu: our patches don't work with 1.7.0 for not allowing rails crossings and neither the Water bourne industris ^^
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19:07<Samu>that means no btpro for 1.7.0? :(
19:07<Samu>rip btpro
19:08<ST2>really?!
19:08<Samu>what can you do?
19:08<ST2>damn Samu
19:08<ST2>you should really try more online games ^^
19:08<ST2>all BTPro's are with 1.7.0
19:08<Samu>nevermind, they're all listed now
19:09<Samu>they weren't for 2 days, I thought they'd never come
19:09<ST2>we only have a couple admins with server access
19:10<ST2>I was with my nephews and no internet, the other wasn't even on his country xD
19:10<ST2>that's why only updated tonight :)
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19:16<Samu>Original: 1h20m54s with patch (~1.15% slower) Original: 1h19m59s without NPF: 40m34s with patch (~7.94% slower) NPF: 37m35s without Yapf: 28m21s with patch (~1,13% slower) Yapf: 28m02s without
19:16<Samu>oops
19:16<Samu>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1184847#p1184847
19:17<Samu>what I meant to paste
19:17<Samu>NPF did bad, why? I don't get it
19:17<Samu>peter1138: any logic explanation :(
19:21<Samu>NPF, why u so slow?
19:21<Samu>:|
19:23<Samu>st2, do u got a non-grf server with ships? must get some savegames from them
19:23<ST2>[00:23:42] <~ST2> 17limits
19:23<ST2>[00:23:42] <+ttd-srv17> Current vehicle limits: Trains: 1000, Road vehicles: 1000, Ships: 40, Aircraft: 35 | Station spread: 25 tile(s), Train length: 25 tile(s)
19:24<ST2>aka, server K1
19:25<ST2>no NewGRF's used
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19:28<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Mon Apr 03 00:00:52 2017