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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-04-10

---Logopened Mon Apr 10 00:00:02 2017
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04:23<Wolf01>"The glance screen is a Nokia/Lumia only feature, so there are no APIs in WP8.x that allow you to display data there. Likely there exists some internal API at the Lumia teams that allow you to do so but that isn't available to regular developers." well... shit
04:24<Wolf01>And is still the same in W10
04:27<Wolf01>The only solution is to replace the entire lockscreen
04:27<__ln__>Wolf01: have you considered switching to MeeGo?
04:27<Wolf01>Yes and no for every reason you could find
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09:35<crem>Why are authorities so evil? They allow me nothing!
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09:40<Arveen>#include "evil.h"
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09:43<Arveen>or maybe tweak it so mowing down trees and infrastructure increases rating :D
09:45<crem>I start every game by building railway station in all towns almost immediately, being scared that I won't be able to do that later. :)
09:46<Samu>that's how you lower your town rating
09:47<crem>I guess it won't lower it unless I actually start transporting things.
09:47<_dp_>somehow that got me thinking: why don't we have flying trains?
09:47<Samu>stations on a town without being serviced = appalling
09:47<Samu>or very poor
09:48<crem>"company rating" and "whatever it's called, the one which makes authorities disallow building" are different things, aren't they?
09:48<_dp_>crem, you got it completely backwards, unused stations lower rating
09:49<crem>There's no need to worry about it when you already built what you wanted. :)
09:50<_dp_>if one station is all you want then yes
09:50<_dp_>though, who cares, just plan some trees, authorities absolutely love trees ;)
09:51<andythenorth>V453000 cat
09:51<crem>cats are nice
09:51<crem>trees trick doesn't work more than 2-3 times. :)
09:51<_dp_>crem, destroy all trees and plant them again xD
09:51<supermop>_dp_: one unused station with no track can have service added later
09:52<supermop>_dp_: one mainline track with no station though trees and it's a pain to add a station later
09:53<supermop>intrinsically, i dont care if the the town rating is low once ive built the station
09:53<V453000>not cat
09:54<supermop>and I won't care that it remains low until i start the service
09:54<supermop>at which point it will improve
09:55<andythenorth>V453000: day off work, should newgrf?
09:57<V453000>I will probably do something with brix over evenings after we release factorio 0.15
09:58<@planetmaker>crem: build two bus stations in eacht town and inaugurate a bus service. Then that service will improve your rating - even when you lower it by landscaping
09:58<_dp_>supermop, and I never pay at low enough pace to justify building unused stations of waiting for rating to increase on its own
09:58*andythenorth has made a big FIRS mess and needs to finish tidying it up
09:58<andythenorth>otherwise no release
09:59<supermop>^ what pm said is the easiest way
09:59<_dp_>even one station is enough :p
09:59<andythenorth>I added warning messages to the compile for unfinished things
09:59<andythenorth>so now it nags me a lot
10:00<supermop>_dp_: if you are playing at a fast pace then still build all the stations and go ahead and start the train
10:01<crem>But is the service rating (which is improved by transferring goods timely) and authority rating (which disallows building) the same thing?
10:01<_dp_>supermop, lol, if I don't have decent income after first few months game is already screwed
10:01<V453000>that's nice andythenorth
10:02<supermop>crem: not really
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10:02<crem>Then how building two bus stations help authorities to allow me building? :-\
10:03<supermop>you can have 5 stations in a town with excellent rating but still have the town hate you because you demolished half their buildings
10:03<supermop>because station rating has an effect on authority rating
10:04<_dp_>there is local authority rating of company in each town and station rating for each cargo on each station
10:04<_dp_>both are improved by tranporting but in different ways
10:05<supermop>if you have a station with a good rating, that will gradually improve your town rating
10:06<_dp_>supermop, no, station rating is completely irrelevant for authorities
10:06<supermop>i guess a station with a horrible rating would also hurt your town rating, but i never really notice it
10:06<_dp_>all they care is that station is active (ie any load or unload in 50 days)
10:07<supermop>well that's close enough to equivalent to me
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10:07<_dp_>supermop, unloading stations don't even have cargo ratings
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10:19<andythenorth>Salt cargo for FIRS extreme?
10:19<andythenorth>there is 1 cargo slot free
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10:22<@peter1138>Just make more cargo slots.
10:27<supermop>hmm salt
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10:30*crem has no idea what FIRS is. Probably it's either not released or not very discoverable.
10:31<quiznilo>it's a newRGF
10:31<quiznilo>replaces stock industries with a whole bunch of new ones that work differently
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10:32<quiznilo>like, you get milk from the dairy farm, and take it to the dairy, and they make food out of it
10:33<quiznilo>can ship to grocery stores or gas stations... convenience stores
10:33<quiznilo>or even direct to houses
10:33<quiznilo>not sure what the diff is between sending food to houses or an industry
10:34<crem>I tried picking random newgrfs but they were mostly just new trains or something. I'd like to have a curated list of recommended newgrfs. To blindly install them all and have fun.
10:37<dlite>FIRS is good, but you need to combine it with compatible train / road vehicle sets
10:41<andythenorth>FIRS, CHIPS, Road Hog, Iron Horse, OGFX+ Airports (removes all town<->airport restrictions). AV9
10:41<andythenorth>oh and some kind of ship set, but they’re all awful
10:41<andythenorth>I use Squid
10:41<andythenorth>regular viewers may detect some bias in andythenorth’s grf list
10:42<supermop>crem: i'd say FIRS is probably the most popular industry newgrf, over the past 9(?) years?
10:42<quiznilo>andy, I had a question about FIRS
10:42<@Alberth>andy, they're simply the best :)
10:42<quiznilo>trying to remember it
10:42<andythenorth>best for me :P
10:42<@Alberth>supplies, and production
10:42<quiznilo>not if I can't remember it
10:42<andythenorth>I don’t trust ‘best’ for such subjective things
10:42<@Alberth>there is a log at @log :p
10:43<quiznilo>a what
10:43<@Alberth>^ that
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10:44<quiznilo>I probably answered it when I grepped FIRS source code
10:45<quiznilo> that thing
10:47<@Alberth>ok, so you didn't have a question :p
10:47<quiznilo>be patient, man
10:47<quiznilo>I'm always asking questions :)
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11:10<andythenorth>ach, connection won’t stay up :x
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11:59<frosch123> <- someone got caught :p
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12:41<Wolf01>Quak, o/
12:41<Wolf01>Albert, if it is of your interest:
12:44<quiznilo>I'd love to submit a patch for train/car replacement, have 'one less car' as an option, so I don't have to pull 50 freight trains into a depot one at a time to remove a car or get rid of caboose
12:44<quiznilo>need to learn C++ first though :v
12:45<frosch123>check forums for template based train replacement
12:45<quiznilo>oh shit
12:45<quiznilo>if this is a thing...
12:46<ST2>about "one less car" there's already the Wagon removal option
12:47<@Alberth>make a new train with one less car, then replicate it for each train that you have, deleting the original
12:54<@Alberth>Wolf01: looks good, thanks
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13:35<zacnomore>I just pulled the svn repo and it gave me a build warning: checking revision... no detection... WARNING: please use a subversion, mercurial, or git checkout of OpenTTD... WARNING: USE WITH CAUTION!"
13:35<zacnomore>How concerned should I be?
13:36<frosch123>i think that happens if you checkout everything, instead of just trunk
13:38<zacnomore>Hmmm. How could it tell though? I ran configure from inside the trunk... Either way, what should I do to fix that?
13:39<frosch123>it looks for .svn folders
13:39<frosch123>or .hg or .git
13:40<frosch123>if you checkout everything with svn, that folder is one level up too much
13:40<zacnomore>Hmm. Alright. Thanks much.
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27852 /trunk/src/lang (catalan.txt spanish.txt) (2017-04-10 19:45:37 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>catalan: 31 changes by juanjo
13:45<@DorpsGek>spanish: 5 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
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14:07<andythenorth>remove clustering from FIRS?
14:08<@Alberth>why would you want to remove clustering?
14:09<frosch123>didn't you remove that 2 years ago?
14:09<@peter1138>hmm, what else can i break...
14:10<andythenorth>I eased clustering so they’re more widely spaced
14:10<andythenorth>not sure it’s useful
14:10<andythenorth>means, for example, that steel mills are distributed across the map
14:11<andythenorth>but only one part of the map will have coal
14:11<andythenorth>and some other part has the iron ore
14:11<Wolf01>Mmmh, a setting to make trains not brake instantaneously
14:11<frosch123>isn't that a good thing?
14:11<andythenorth>peter1138: allow trains on a PBS reservation to follow preceeding trains in same direction
14:11<andythenorth>[and hope none of them need to reverse]
14:12<frosch123>and one of them breaks down
14:12<andythenorth>‘proceed on sight'
14:12<Wolf01>SPAD signals too
14:13<andythenorth>there’s something in JGR’s pack about slots
14:13<andythenorth>dunno what it is
14:14*andythenorth wonders about merging trunk to NRT
14:14<Wolf01>Not yet, maybe yeti
14:16<andythenorth>too many conflicts that I don’t understand
14:17<andythenorth>5 conflicts eh
14:19<Wolf01>I don't understand how to git
14:19<@peter1138>git do-all-the-things
14:19<Wolf01>Best I can do is switch the branch, commit, pull
14:19<andythenorth>I don’t understand how to do ottd :P
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14:21<andythenorth>.gitignore is sad about projects/.vs and similar
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14:22<andythenorth>hmm remote diffing is crap :(
14:22<@peter1138>.gitignore is... a file
14:22<andythenorth>I know :P
14:22<andythenorth>I added you to
14:23<andythenorth>I have ottd trunk set up as a remote, and I’m trying to merge it into the road-and-tram-types branch
14:23<andythenorth>but eh, conflicts in things I don’t understand
14:24<@peter1138>merging eh
14:24<andythenorth>such merge
14:25<Wolf01>gitignore conflicts might be my fault
14:27*andythenorth tries the newfangled way
14:27<andythenorth>the second conflict is all greek to me :P
14:27<@peter1138>meh, easy
14:31<@peter1138>[road-and-tram-types 751f8b1] Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/master' into road-and-tram-types
14:31<quiznilo>ooo private repo
14:32<quiznilo>nm, the file is just... just gone!
14:36<@peter1138>well it builds
14:40<andythenorth>probably fine then
14:42<quiznilo>if it compiles, ship it
14:42<@peter1138>i already pushed
14:42<quiznilo>the NJ style
14:42<@peter1138>joking, i didn't
14:43<@peter1138>and that worked well for mozilla...
14:46<quiznilo>I'm checking out jetbrains' new Go IDE
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14:48<quiznilo>vim is pissing me off
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14:49<andythenorth>towns can’t be funded?
14:51<_dp_>they can
14:51<andythenorth>oh it’s a setting
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16:04<andythenorth>peter1138: you could just push it
16:04<andythenorth>it’s a branch in a fork
16:04<andythenorth>which kittens might die?
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16:27<andythenorth>isn’t it
16:40*andythenorth is not good at maths
16:40<andythenorth>but, what division operations result in 0? o_O
16:41<_dp_>0 / non-0
16:42<_dp_>though it gets more complex with computers
16:42<Wolf01>Mmmmh, you might be responsible of my soon-to-be-lost night over numberphile
16:43<andythenorth>industry_count(${location_check.industry_type_numeric_id}) / ${location_check.div} / industry_clusters != 0
16:43<andythenorth>looks like a stupid check to me
16:43<andythenorth>location_check.div is usually 3 or 4
16:43<Wolf01>If that is 0 you have a problem
16:44<andythenorth>it seems to be totally pointless
16:44<Wolf01>Maybe it's the industry count that is 0
16:44<Wolf01>Difficult but possible
16:44<_dp_>is in integer division or float?
16:44<andythenorth>bytecode so integer
16:45<_dp_>then I guess it's equivalent to abs(count) >= div*clusters
16:45<andythenorth>that would be what is wanted I think
16:46<andythenorth>that would be an easier way to write the same check :P
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17:27<quiznilo>andy, what was the idea about adding these hotels? Was that a way to approach passenger traffic as if it were an industry?
17:27<Wolf01>andy is no more
17:28<quiznilo>how sad
17:28<quiznilo>pick up passengers from hotel
17:28<quiznilo>possibly send them to livestock plant
17:29<quiznilo>name it 'Soylent Green Cracker Factory'
17:31<Wolf01>I think you aren't the first one which came out with this idea
17:36<supermop>quiznilo: i think the idea was an easy black hole for certain firs cargoes, as well as easy source of early game passenger traffic to bootstrap network incase towns are too small
17:37<ST2>The thing I like about FIRS is that you can have people eat bricks :P
17:37<ST2>Stone -> Lime Kiln -> Chemicals -> Paper Mill -> Manufacturing Supplies -> Grain Mill -> Food
17:37<ST2>gotta love it xD
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17:56<Eddi|zuHause>it's not that far from the truth
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>my company dissolves stones in acid, and the resulting salt-solution gets put in food
17:59<ST2>dman, that's looks like a nasty way to get salt - maybe we should start collecting tears xD
17:59<ST2>or use the old way, sea salt ^^
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>chemically speaking, it's CaCO3+2HCl -> CaCl2+H2CO3
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>of course the H2CO3 separates into H2O and CO2
18:01<ST2>well, some poluted water still remains H2O - but not my area
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18:03<Eddi|zuHause>i never actually checked whether it makes a fizzing sound
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---Logclosed Tue Apr 11 00:00:03 2017