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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-05-03

---Logopened Wed May 03 00:00:35 2017
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05:29<Wolf01>o/
05:29<__ln__>precisely on time
05:29<Wolf01>:D
05:33<Wolf01>https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/17/05/02/1958221/san-francisco-politician-jane-kim-is-exploring-a-tax-on-robots lol...
05:37<__ln__>next they're going to ban robots on earth
05:43<Wolf01>The future will feature robots which paint, make movies and songs (as they aren't work), while poor humans will work they ass off to not get their position stolen from robots
05:43<Wolf01>;)
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06:28<Wolf01>V453000 we need this in F: https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aDWNzR7_460sv.mp4
06:54<V453000>fuck is that
06:54<Wolf01>Tomato sorter
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08:42<V453000>he
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10:36<Wolf01>Eddi|zuHause, I still can't understand why is not possible to solve the problem with infra sharing you talk about every time, not really the "who get paid" but the possible abuse you are talking about
10:39<Wolf01>I think you mean Load A -> Unload B where you have A -> transfer C -> B and you abuse it by doing A<->C and never deliver to B (or deliver after some trips) or even A->C->D->C->D->C->B where D is really far away
10:51<_dp_>What's even the point of infra sharing? If you coop play in one company, if you compete don't share
10:52<supermop_>_dp_: what if yyou want to share but not necessarily have other players making decisions for your company
10:52<Wolf01>My suggestion is: you already can estimate in some ways what the best payment could be for a cargo (which is price * tiles / time), you could get paid for the leg instead of the entire trip, A->C in the right time should be paid as A->C even with transfer (which is just A->C part of A->B), the train (or rv, airplane, ship) did his job, if the C->B leg fucks up and takes 3 years to deliver the
10:52<Wolf01>cargo then it's its fault and will get paid down to 0 in relation of the cargo payment rates
10:53<_dp_>supermop_, ask them not to?
10:54<Wolf01>_dp_, also in future it might be possible to have players which focus only on RVs or ships, other which focus on aircraft, or even disabling constructions of stations for every player and make them via gamescripts
10:54<_dp_>supermop_, way better than uncontrolled infra sharing
10:56<_dp_>Wolf01, don't see how any of this is related to infra sharing, and having players focus on different tasks is already working perfectly
10:56<Wolf01>_dp_, asking players to not do something they are wanting to do is like asking to a kid to not eat the candies on the living room table
10:56<_dp_>Wolf01, in big cb games one does town management, one goods, one coal, etc
10:57<Wolf01>And what if one wants to restructure a train junction to be able to make a road traverse it? It asks the other player to do that? If one doesn't have any limitation he does it by himself
10:59<Wolf01>But this is not the point, the point is to allow different things of game, or you are just one of those people which things "if devs do X which I don't care abouit then they won't do Y which I really want"?
10:59<Wolf01>*thinks
11:01<_dp_>I one of those people who thinks this game is dead already :p
11:02<Wolf01>Then why complain?
11:02<_dp_>Where do I complain here? I honestly don't understand why would anyone want infra sharing
11:02<Wolf01>You = anyone?
11:03<_dp_>I do understand why I don't want it :p
11:04<Wolf01>Ok, then that's your point, my point is: it would be cool to have that too because it might open new gameplay
11:08<_dp_>yeah, some pvp massacre xD
11:08<supermop_>_dp_: why do people want canals and ships
11:09<supermop_>I understand why i dont use canals
11:09<supermop_>so we need to remove it from game
11:09<_dp_>supermop_, realism xD
11:09<Wolf01>That's not even near realism
11:10<_dp_>supermop_, also ships can transport infinite cargo in limited space
11:10<supermop_>yep, bad feature, must be removed from 1.8
11:10<Wolf01>We will address water transport problems one day
11:10<supermop_>it is offensive to me that any players use ships at all so i demand no one ise ships
11:10<Wolf01>Starting with "you won't be able to fit 2 ships in the same tile anymore"
11:11<supermop_>even in the privacy of their own single player games
11:11<supermop_>i will start filling frivolous DMCA takedown requests to anyone who posts a screenshot of a ship
11:11<Wolf01>Lol
11:12<supermop_>or a photo of a real ship
11:12<supermop_>unless the censor out the ship
11:15<_dp_>to me worst thing about ships is catchment area hack with port
11:15<Wolf01>Hack like what?
11:15<Wolf01>Because I can show you what the real catchement area hack is
11:16<_dp_>Wolf01, build two canals, attach port and your rail stating has 5 catchment radius
11:16<Wolf01>Ok, you know you can cover an entire city of 10M inhabitants with just 2 bus stations?
11:18<Wolf01>Or better, with the same bus station split in 2 with station walking (or just ctrl)
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11:18<Wolf01>Catchement area is broken beyond imagination
11:20<_dp_>Wolf01, ofc I know, but that looks at least somewhat logical
11:21<Wolf01>BTW, tea time
11:21<_dp_>Wolf01, since it's not much different from building excessively huge station
11:22<Wolf01>With the difference that huge stations still have 4-5 tiles of catchement radius, not a 30x30 square between them where you can have a city or some industries
11:22<supermop_>anyway why are we even talking about this stuff
11:23<_dp_>Wolf01, you can build station in weird shape
11:23<_dp_>and they will even have acceptance zone of boulding box
11:23<_dp_>not catchment tho
11:26<_dp_>and don't get me wrong, it's not that I particularly like spreading, I just don't see any way to avoid it
11:28<_dp_>even something as radical as only having one tile to exert catchment area wouldn't fix it completely
11:40<Wolf01>supermop_, because topics about this pop up in the forum
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12:01<Wolf01>o/
12:01<@Alberth>moin
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13:26<Wolf01>Quak
13:27<frosch123>moi
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13:52<vslk>Hello
13:53<vslk>I'm trying to load my old TTD-save on OpenTTD 1.7.0. Seems to work ok otherwise, but monorail-trains are moving very little
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13:57<vslk>Uh oh.. All the monorail-trains are actually maglev-trains and therefore cant move
13:57<vslk>Interesting..
14:10<andythenorth>o/
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14:14<Wolf01>o/
14:21<@Alberth>o/
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: it's not really about "it's not possible to solve", more about "it should be done properly" and "someone(tm) has to do it"
14:22<Wolf01>Lets do it!
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14:23<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: also, when you transfer A->B, you don't know whether the cargo will arrive at C (or D, or E)
14:24<Wolf01>Can't we use cargodist for that?
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>no, it's not cargodest
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>cargo does not have a destination
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>just a probability when it arrives from hop A it goes to next hop B or next hop C
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>but also, infra sharing should work properly without cargodest
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>*cargodist
14:27<Wolf01>So it's totally random (for routes in which one possible destination accepts it)?
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, pretty much
14:28<__ln__>is there a release date known for the pilot of Star Trek: Discovery?
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know any, but i haven't actually looked for one
14:30<andythenorth>kaolin -> plastics factory?
14:30<andythenorth>chemical chain in Extreme is beyond crap
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't sound right
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>kaolin should go to a ceramics plant
14:34<Wolf01>Ok, so the station knows where to send the cargo, even it's final destination, but it isn't carried forward by vehicles
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>no, the station only knows the next hop
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>not the final destination
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15:02<frosch123>what's the difference between ESRB_PATH_TOO_LONG and ESRB_MAX_COST_EXCEEDED?
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15:11<andythenorth>ceramics chain
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15:13<@Alberth>I don't have the latter?
15:14<@Alberth>oh, it's new
15:18<@Alberth>ESRB_PATH_TOO_LONG seems unused now
15:19<frosch123>that's also my conclusion
15:19<frosch123>it's kind of a rename, but with some other change combined
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15:31<supermop_>andythenorth: no normal cargo decay, but small % decay for each load and unload from a vehicle?
15:31<supermop_>as the ceramics get broken
15:32<supermop_>andythenorth: best place to get a list of cargo labels for each type that has graphics drawn in hog?
15:35<@Alberth>grep for known cargo label in hog source code?
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15:35<@Alberth>or find name of the graphics, and find where it is used
15:37<supermop_>hmm
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15:40<supermop_>is it better to have sprites in 4 small pngs, or one png that's 4x the size?
15:40<frosch123>it is better to have sprites of the same object in the same png
15:41<frosch123>do not split a single vehicle over multiple files
15:41<frosch123>try to reuse the same sprite template for multiple vehicles/cargos
15:41<andythenorth>supermop_: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/road-hog/repository/entry/src/road_vehicle.py#L566
15:58<supermop_>frosch123: what is the reason for that?
15:58<supermop_>if empty and full are in different pngs, i can reuse the same template for both empty and full
15:58<frosch123>yes, for one vehicle
15:58<frosch123>what about the second vehicle?
15:59<supermop_>truck1_empty.png, truck1_full.png, truck2_empty.png, truck2_full.png....
16:00<supermop_>same template could work for all trucks of same size
16:00<supermop_>which in my case is all trucks
16:01<supermop_>i figure that 4 100px *20Px pngs maybe are larger than a single 100*80 png maybe?
16:02<supermop_>but otherwise is there a strong reason not to separate?
16:02<frosch123>it's just easier to write the template, the result is the same either way
16:03<supermop_>working on a 800*1200 file in photoshop is a pain for scrolling around everywhere
16:03<supermop_>so i've gradually gravitated toward smaller and smaller canvas sizes
16:06<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r27862 /branches/1.7 (11 files in 5 dirs) (2017-05-03 22:05:52 +0200 )
16:06<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: [1.7] -Backport from trunk:
16:06<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Failed to load lzo compressed savegames sometimes [FS#6450] (r27793)
16:06<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: [Win32] Mark OpenTTD as DPI-aware to avoid OS window scaling that breaks mouse input [FS#6366] (r27791, r27790)
16:06<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: [NewGRF] Get vehicle load amount after executing new cargo trigger [FS#6536] (r27788)
16:06<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: (...)
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16:10<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r27863 /branches/1.7 (10 files in 5 dirs) (2017-05-03 22:09:51 +0200 )
16:10<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: [1.7] -Backport from trunk:
16:10<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Black remap did nothing in 8bpp-simple blitter (r27837)
16:10<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Misaligned resize icon due to widget bounds being inclusive (r27831)
16:10<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Update viewport sign dimensions when changing GUI zoom level (r27827, r27819)
16:10<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: (...)
16:13<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by frosch :: r27864 /branches/1.7 (7 files in 3 dirs) (2017-05-03 22:13:05 +0200 )
16:13<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: [1.7] -Backport from trunk:
16:13<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Add missing game script event for ships arriving at a station [FS#6560] (r27859, r27858)
16:13<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: StringID truncation to 16 bits broke string remapping test [FS#6555] (r27851)
16:13<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: - Fix: Infinite loop in pathfinder when checking safe waiting position from a waypoint [FS#5926] (r27846)
16:13<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: (...)
16:14<Wolf01>Remove ships also :)
16:15<frosch123>this time we need a starwars joke
16:16<frosch123>rc1 on may the force
16:16<Wolf01>"Changed large ufo to star destroyer"
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>you can't say anything that is wrong
16:40<Wolf01>Oh, "enabled realistic gravity FORCE for planes"
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16:43<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27865 /branches/1.7/src/lang (26 files) (2017-05-03 22:43:22 +0200 )
16:43<@DorpsGek>[1.7] -Backport from trunk: translation updates
16:45<frosch123>44 lines for a backport script
16:45<frosch123>python scripts are so hillariously short
16:46<frosch123>(with empty lines, without comments)
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16:48<andythenorth>landlocked ports :(
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18:19<Payl>Hi guys, I have question regarding openttd archaic development: I understand that OpenTTD was produced using reverse-engineering, but I assume TTD prevented any derivative work from it, so how OpenTTD was made possible then?
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18:21<ST2>hey Payl: check all the "patchpack" clients available - each one with their code. ofc, since based on OpenTTD won't be called Potato Transport ^^
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18:23<Payl|2>ST2: OpenTTD is GPL so it allows derivative work etc. but AFAIK TTD was never opensource, so how is that related?
18:24<ST2><Payl> Hi guys, (...)
18:24<ST2><Payl|2> ST2: OpenTTD (...)
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18:25<ST2>is that a fork of Payl?
18:25<Payl|2>ST2: Yup, I think there is irc-split going on now :P
18:25<ST2>yeah :S
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18:26<ST2>anyway, and as you mentioned about the split, better wait until things get stable... to make your question
18:26<Payl|2>:D
18:27<ST2>I'm not the right person to answer it :)
18:28<Payl|2>yeah, but nobody here is lawyer to answer if that is legit or not, but I'm asking under what basis OpenTTD emerged... Was it just like I don't care about TTD rights, just make it open, or is it thought tru :)
18:29<ST2>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenTTD
18:29<ST2>all what I can say ^^
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18:32<Payl|2>ST2: sadly wikipedia and other similiar sources seem to miss details that I'm after, because it's just said that OpenTTD is GPL, but TTD was commercial, and you can't just magically make GPL out of commercial :P
18:33<ST2>and probably you won't find original OpenTTD makers here to answer it (I think) :)
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18:34<ST2>but I hope you find here people to answer your questions
18:34<ST2>my suggestions: try a bit earlier :)
18:34<ST2>suggestion*
18:35<Payl|2>ST2: thats what scares me :D because clearly original media was never redistributed with OpenTTD, do you have idea why?
18:35<ST2>[23:34:47] <ST2> my suggestion: try a bit earlier :)
18:35<Payl|2>ST2: yeah, i probably should ask earlier, but it just occured to me recently :D
18:35<glx_>because original media is copyrighted
18:36<Payl|2>alright, original media is copyrighted, but game exectuable wasnt?
18:37<Payl|2>because clearly OpenTTD = Taking TTD executable and reversing it into code which would be illegal in most cases, so... eh?
18:37<glx_>not in sweden
18:37<_dp_>Payl|2, check tt-forums, lisensing was discussed multiple times there
18:38<Payl|2>_dp_: I looked in archaic forums but couldn't find anything interesting, any pointers? :)
18:38<Payl|2>glx_: ok, can you save me learning swedish and tell me what is allowed in sweden if you know? because it's very interesting
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18:41<ST2>may I ask Payl|2: why the sudden curiosity?
18:41<_dp_>Payl|2, there is a bit here https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=74858
18:41<Payl|2>ST2: not really sudden, always wonedered and now i have to make essay on "history of open source games" so i want to get bottom where i can :)
18:41<glx_>I don't know exactly, but when ludde did it it was allowed
18:43-!-Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:43<_dp_>Payl|2, https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=15157
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18:44<ST2>_dp_ done the search for Payl|2 :)
18:44*_dp_ google pro xD
18:45<ST2>hehe
18:45<Payl|2>_dp_: thanks! Sorry i didnt respond earlier was just trying to read it xD
18:46<Payl|2>ok so bottom point seems to be that "somewhere" it is legal to do that... which is rather weird but probably nobody here knows how exactly swedish law states that...
18:47*ST2 searching for some exotic countries (hot, of preference) xD
18:48<Payl|2>ST2: it's best not to search for too exotic otherwise you will end up with a country that is closed up oil platform
18:48<glx_>that's not a hot one :)
18:49<ST2>meh, with beautifull women... even "oil" goes well (well as intended pun xD)
18:49<Payl|2>glx_: it might be if we are talking about drama, because I think they hosted thepiratebay at one point... ohwell
18:50<ST2>sec, oppening bets table that Payl|2 is studying at a law schooll
18:50<ST2>and yeah, bets are legal here xD
18:50-!-glx_ is now known as glx
18:51<Payl|2>whats interesting is that openrct2 which seems to have same "licensing" problem as openttd but author of openrct2 is from great britain :P
18:51<Payl|2>ST2: I'm studying informatics, plot twist
18:51<ST2>ok, let me add the plot twist to the bets xD
18:51<Payl|2>sadly they wanted me to dive into licensing BS on one subject and since I love OpenTTD here i am :D
18:53<glx>it's probably a grey zone like abandonware
18:55<Payl|2>glx: i always assumed that somehow it is legal :( But ohwell, i guess it is legal as long as they don't call you out. And they can't since all TTD code was rewritten already
18:58<supermop_>Payl|2: i cannpt speak for ttd patch, but effectively OpenTTD is fresh code in C that happens to achieve similar results to TTD's original assembler code
18:59<ST2>supermop_: lets call it now C++ (for the most ^^)
18:59<supermop_>ST2: yeah, but i was unsure what the original project was done as
18:59<Payl|2>supermop: tddpatch is effectivelly a patch AFAIK and hence is just illegal in most countries
19:00<Cubey>These issues are complicated because the rules about patents, trademarks, and copyrights are different, but also interact with each other
19:00<ST2>supermop_: you're correct - can we have a C+ (on the middle xD)
19:01<Payl|2>Cubey: I'd say problem isn't with rules
19:01<Payl|2>problem is that a court could say screw rules
19:01<Cubey>Well like, the idea of abandonware as a "grey area"
19:02<Cubey>It's not really a legally grey area, it's either under copyright or it isn't
19:02<Cubey>But if the trademarks are no longer in use, the owner of the copyright might not care about it
19:02<glx>abandonware is illegal, but there is some tolerance
19:02<Payl|2>Cubey: true, but with openTTD it might be hard to establish whenever it is full legit or grey
19:02<supermop_>Payl|2: yes, patch is open and shut reverse engineering
19:03<Cubey>OpenTTD could violate patents without violating any copyrights
19:03<Cubey>I don't know whether any part of the original TTD was patented though
19:03<glx>IIRC there is no software patents in europe
19:04<supermop_>likely not any enforcable patents on it
19:04<Payl|2>I doubt that TTD was patented... but TTD might have violated patents itself, because patents are very specific usually lol
19:04<supermop_>you can patent a game concept in the US, but actually enforcing it is very tricky and complex
19:04<Cubey>Software patents are super problematic both in theory and in practice
19:04<Payl|2>hire a good lawyer and TTD did violate patents, hire a bad one and it didn't :)
19:05<Cubey>I think the conclusion has to be that any blanket statement you make about intellectual property law is probably going to have some exceptions
19:05<glx>software patents are silly, because with a given input there are many ways to get the same output
19:06<Cubey>The gray areas aren't so much gaps in the law as they are gaps in how the law is practiced and used
19:06<Cubey>Couldn't the game itself be patented, as opposed to the code that executes the game?
19:07<Cubey>I mean, today a TTD-like game could not be patented because there are so many examples of prior art
19:07<Payl|2>We are going into meta-talking here, but even speaking of OpenTTD, it might have been "ok" to reverse engineer game and produce another work
19:08<supermop_>Cubey: you can still patent it depending on how you write the application
19:08<Cubey>I'm sure openttd is "OK" because it's still around
19:08<Cubey>If anybody had a claim against it, they've lost it now just by not using it
19:08<supermop_>but someone could get your patent invalidated by citing prior art if you make your's too general
19:08<Payl|2>Cubey: it's like saying "because i shot someone and i'm not caught already it must be OK" ;)
19:08<Cubey>In IP law that is actually how it works though
19:08<supermop_>Payl|2: that is how it works if you shoot someone too
19:08<Cubey>Trademarks have to be vigorously defended
19:09<supermop_>if you wait long enough
19:09<glx>and chris sawyer has already enough problems with the publisher about who owns the game IIRC
19:09<Cubey>There is usually no statute of limitations on murder
19:09<Payl|2>Cubey: *depending on country
19:09<Cubey>True
19:09<supermop_>Cubey: exactly, that's why you sometimes see a ridiculous case of someone suing some little guy that barely even in fringes, even if they loose the case and it generates bad publicity
19:10<Payl|2>supermop: i thought thats how elections work
19:11<Payl|2>i guess programmers don't make good lawyers since they tend to interpret law instead of applying it lol
19:11<supermop_>because then later, a malicious actor can say - company x didn;t enforce patent against little guy Y, so patent does not apply
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19:11<supermop_>my wife is a programmer and her sister is an IP lawyer
19:11<Cubey>It looks like in the United States the statute of limitations on criminal proceedings resulting from copyright violation is five years, and for civil actions three years
19:12<supermop_>between the two of them i get a good insight
19:12<Payl|2>Cubey: remember that this occured in sweden, so whocares about US :P
19:12<Cubey>The US generally has harsher IP laws than European countries
19:12<glx>supermop_: usually the ridiculous cases come from patent trolls
19:13<Cubey>So if something is in the clear in the US, it's probably fine in Sweden too
19:13<Cubey>Of course that's just speculation... not good to rely on assumptions where the law is concerned
19:13<Payl|2>Cubey: it is in clear now, but not when it was done ;)
19:13<Payl|2>or was it, thats the question...
19:14<Cubey>Either way, it's probably too late for anyone to do anything about it now in any relevant jurisdiction
19:14<Payl|2>Cubey: yes, but point of talking about it is that it can be applied to OpenRCT2 or any to-be-made OpenX game
19:15<Cubey>OpenRCT is potentially more fraught because the rollercoaster tycoon trademark is still in use
19:15<Cubey>They even came out with a mobile version of RCT2 recently, right
19:16<Payl|2>really? I heard of RCT4 on mobile or sth like that
19:16<Cubey>I don't know what it is called, but I know that you can use savegames and scenarios from RCT2 with it
19:17<Payl|2>Cubey: god i hope it isn't patented :D but honestly it doesn't mean anything about if they actually used same game
19:17<Cubey>Yeah, the potential issue I'm seeing is with the name, not the functionality
19:17<Payl|2>i actually doubt it's RCT2 since RCT2=assembly ;)
19:18<Payl|2>Cubey: did you ever tried playing OpenTTD on phone? it works sure, but UI is terrible and sadly it wont work good unless you make 1000x zoom
19:19<glx>mobile version is not official and not supported ;)
19:19<Cubey>Actually I think I first got into openttd because I noticed it was one of those things that gets ported to every imaginable platform
19:19<Cubey>That would've been a little bit before smartphones became widespread though
19:20<glx>we still have windows CE traces in source code :)
19:20<Payl|2>I picked up OpenTTD because I enjoyed TTD and OpenTTD is just plain better TTD
19:20<Cubey>I haven't played the mobile RCT game but I've seen a lot of screenshots, and the interface is much chunkier and "finger friendly," but also much uglier and not fitting with the pixel art assets at all
19:21<Payl|2>and honestly one thing OpenTTD does great is that it can handle thousands of vehicles moving at once, which removes virtually any limits on most machines.
19:21<Cubey>I never had TTD as a kid. I might not even be old enough to have been exposed to it
19:22<glx>Payl|2: you never tried to load so openttdcoop savegames ;)
19:22<Payl|2>well i'm not old, but i have dosbox/vms :P
19:22<Cubey>My laptop is only like 6 years old and the game definitely slows to a crawl when I have thousands of vehicles on a huge map
19:22<Payl|2>glx: i tried it to check performance of my computer, was stable and working :P
19:23<glx>openttd still use only 1 core for all game logic
19:23<Payl|2>btw. does openttd make use of multithreaded cpus?
19:23<Payl|2>oh lol i was just about to ask it <3
19:23<glx>because everything needs to be synchronised
19:23<Payl|2>glx: please make it NUMA aware, cant wait to run it on my 12-core dual-xeon setup
19:24<Cubey>It seems like an openttd-like game could be massively parallelized down to the level of individual trains
19:24<Payl|2>Cubey: you are actually wrong, since synchronization is a cost
19:25<Cubey>Doesn't the game proceed in tics?
19:25<Payl|2>Cubey: it does, but trains "race" for signals
19:25<glx>it does but everything should happen in the exact same order on all clients
19:25<glx>else multiplayer is dead
19:26<Cubey>Oh that's true
19:26<Payl|2>IMO problem isn't order, since you can fix it if it ever goes wrong, but synchronization of every signal
19:27<Cubey>What if you only implemented path signals
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19:28<glx>same problem
19:28<Payl|2>Cubey: it isn't problem on this level, it is a problem that two threads have to stop on >every signal<
19:28<Cubey>Oh I guess you still have to worry about which train reserved a path first
19:29<Payl|2>what could be parallelized is map tick
19:29<glx>not really as every thing relies on the map
19:29<Payl|2>glx: are there any events that couldn't wait for next tick?
19:30<glx>user events ;)
19:30<Payl|2>assuming user did X, and map did Y, it can be synchronized once per tick, user won't notice ;p
19:31<ST2>what glx said is: user X done this, user Y did that... etc
19:31<Wolf01>'night
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19:31<Payl|2>ST2: even now it's done only once per tick
19:31<ST2>any other idea?
19:32<glx>yes commands are already queued
19:32<ST2>and processed, I get it glx :)
19:33<Payl|2>so it's mostly just that it a lot of mess done in order to divide job a little further
19:33<glx>it's quite impossible to make use of multiple cores without rewriting openttd from scratch
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19:34<glx>the actual code is not designed for multicore
19:34<Payl|2>glx: not impossible, but nearly impossible without breaking something major :P
19:35<Payl|2>worst of all are all GRFs that can do anything they want
19:35<glx>no they can't :)
19:35<Payl|2>glx: proof you are wrong:
19:36<Payl|2>openttd already uses multiple threads
19:36<Payl|2>for cargo calculations ;)
19:37<Payl|2>i know thats not what we are looking for anyways :)
19:37<Payl|2>ST2: in short, either buy a new laptop
19:38<Payl|2>or don't make huge openttd maps ;p
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19:58<ST2>[00:56:23] <Payl|2> [01:37:57] ST2: in short, either buy a new laptop <<-- can you explain why the suggestion?
20:04<glx>wrong person I think
20:04<Payl|2>ST2: oops my bad Cubey actually said he has 6yrs old laptop! :)
20:05<Payl|2>anyway, thx all of you for explaining me licensing or rather how stupid is... I g2g, cya :p
20:06<ST2>well, I'm on a laptop too - not that old
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20:07<ST2>but I enough to say that all Xeon processors are bad for games - even thw ones with lev2 and lev3 higher memory sizes
20:30<ST2>anyway, it was just fun because, on another channel I mentioned this:
20:30<ST2>[00:56:20] <~ST2> [00:53:15] <<user>>: from now on, if I leave games very quickly, nothing related to game itself - termic pasta burned on laptop (and probably dusty fans too)
20:30<ST2>[00:56:20] <~ST2> [00:53:42] so, I easilly reach 90ºC on it
20:31<ST2>and... [00:56:23] <Payl|2> [01:37:57] ST2: in short, either buy a new laptop
20:31<ST2>funny coincidence xD
20:32<ST2>later ...: burned = burnt (or whatever english people accept xD)
20:32<ST2>^^
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