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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-05-29

---Logopened Mon May 29 00:00:11 2017
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03:05<andythenorth>such F
03:26<@peter1138>too clean & sharp
03:39<andythenorth>it’s brand new!
03:39<andythenorth>paint is still shiny
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09:56<andythenorth>but also
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10:41<supermop_home>more paper mills?
10:45<andythenorth>so many
10:50<supermop_home>advantage of lots of square footed buildings
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10:55<andythenorth>lo Alberth
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11:06<@Alberth>new industry peatlands looks very much under construction :p
11:07<@Alberth>same globally brown-ish colour :)
11:08<andythenorth>irl they’re quite…boring
11:08<andythenorth>I might get hit by inspiration some time
11:08<@Alberth>I saw the photo, very large, very flat
11:09<andythenorth>the tiles should at least show a difference in front / behind the harvesters
11:09<andythenorth>peat pile in front, bare ground behind
11:11<andythenorth>yes I could draw the bricks
11:11<andythenorth>and channels of water in the ground that drain the mire
11:11<@Alberth>,_Outer_Hebrides,_Scotland.jpg more boring stack
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11:14<@Alberth>looks like a very finite resource, unless you play for a few thousand years :p
11:15<andythenorth>peat caused capitalism
11:17<andythenorth>Dutch people dug the peat, then needed to keep the land drained
11:17<andythenorth>so they bought shares in windmills
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11:17<andythenorth>lo Snail
11:22<@Alberth>hmm, blaming us eh? :p
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11:37<supermop_home>trucks working
11:47<@Alberth>:O great!
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11:49<supermop_home>now need to give all the new trucks better names
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11:54<V453000>took me 2 years already to make 1 road type
11:54<V453000>how many will it take to make all the new ones? :D
11:55<@Alberth>depends on how much you want to change with the current one :)
11:56<V453000>about redo :P
11:57<@Alberth>based on previous experience, I'd say 2 years
11:59<supermop_home>do I need to use random_switch? can I just use switch with random_bits as the thing to test?
12:01<@Alberth>there was an important difference between them, not sure what it was, random_bits are more stable iirc
12:01<supermop_home>i don't see a random_switch trigger for 'is built'
12:02<supermop_home>I only want to randomize once, on vehicle purchase
12:03<V453000>I always used random switch, frosch might have added some random bits when he was writing rainbow slugs though
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12:04<@Alberth>random_bits does point to random_switch
12:05<andythenorth>trucks :)
12:05<supermop_home>bendy busses next
12:06<andythenorth>ach, all the forums action is BR Set
12:06<andythenorth>good luck to it though :)
12:06<supermop_home>go hype up mop generic road vehicles
12:07<andythenorth>sets made by one person get low-traffic threads
12:07<andythenorth>for obvious reasons, compared to a group collaborating
12:07<andythenorth>also it’s impossible to produce much drama posts when working alone
12:08<supermop_home>go shit talk my trucks then
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12:55<Vadtec>when reserving land for later use near a town, is it necessary to purchase *all* the tiles you want to reserve, or can you just purchase the outline of the tiles you want to reserve to keep the town out?
12:56<@Alberth>outline seems to work last time I tried
12:56<@Alberth>unless you have AI that thinks "eh, free space for my new airport" :p
12:56<Vadtec>heh, true, had that happen once
12:57<@Alberth>one bought tile in the middle solves that problem :p
12:58<@Alberth>maybe even just near roads is sufficient, but not sure
12:58<Vadtec>i feel like a moron for not having thought of that
12:58<@Alberth>I hardly ever play near a city
12:58<Vadtec>i use planes to feed my rail habbit
12:58<Vadtec>few good routes of valuables and i can build whatever rail network i want
12:59<@Alberth>I do industries only, mostly
12:59<@Alberth>and when sufficiently bored, I may move some goods to the towns
13:00*andythenorth plays FIRS
13:00<@Alberth>with BB ?
13:00<andythenorth>15 years, 120,000t per cargo
13:00<andythenorth>also, I think Arctic Basic is ‘done’ for v3, download here
13:01<@Alberth>I might want to try NCG some more, never played much with it, tbh
13:01<andythenorth>it’s fun, but it forces a very linear play-style
13:01<andythenorth>especially in a short game, all choices have to support only the goal
13:01<andythenorth>so nice-looking stations etc are strictly wasting time and money
13:02<andythenorth>if the goal numbers are set well, it also has a frantic late-game stage, manic last 2 years
13:04<andythenorth>it might be interesting to have a variant of NCG with ‘all cargos'
13:04<andythenorth>although ‘more’ is not always better :P
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13:19<LordAro>ooh, lots of pretty warnings with gcc7.1
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13:25<@Alberth>andythenorth: 5572 is latest? build date suggests it is, but I have firses with higher numbers
13:26<andythenorth>5626 is my local rev
13:26<andythenorth>dunno what bundles does with version numbers
13:26<andythenorth>that looks like a bug though
13:28<@Alberth> I have even higher numbers, time-stamp is download time of course, rather than creation time at devzone
13:30<@Alberth> <-- much higher numbers
13:32<LordAro>frosch123: quak
13:33<andythenorth>Alberth: that’s interesting, not sure where those come from
13:33<andythenorth>mine matches hg revs
13:34<@Alberth>inside it's again 5572
13:34<frosch123>LordAro: some look legit
13:34<frosch123>like fios.cpp
13:34<andythenorth>I guess I haven’t finished patching the makefile then :P
13:34<@Alberth>(I picked 6358)
13:35<frosch123>LordAro: is there a "fallthrough" attribute meanwhile?
13:35<LordAro>/* FALLTHROUGH */ i think is "standard"
13:35<frosch123>i mean something the compiler knows
13:35<LordAro>other than that, there are "actual" attributes, with varying amounts of support
13:35<frosch123>like __attribute__(__fallthrough__)
13:36<frosch123> <- there it is
13:36<frosch123>we should add that to stdafx.h
13:36<LordAro>preferring to use [[fallthrough]], ofc ;)
13:38<frosch123>more #ifdef in stdafx.h
13:38*andythenorth ponders a roadstop spec that could show cargo
13:38<andythenorth>bored of building a train station tile to show waiting cargo at roadstops :)
13:39<frosch123>they added attribute namespaces... oh dear
13:42<Vadtec>-_- thats like the 4th time in about 3 years ive had a stupid industry that ive been servicing for 10+ years close right out from under me...with good raitings and decent
13:43<andythenorth>code says that can’t happen
13:44<Vadtec>i just lost a factory that ive been suppling with 300+ grain and livestock close
13:45<Vadtec>lost a coal mine about 10 minutes ago that was supplying 258 coal
13:45<andythenorth>in default game, no industry grfs?
13:45<Vadtec>this game has been weird
13:46<andythenorth>it’s not a patchpack?
13:46<Vadtec>pretty sure its default, lemme check
13:46<+glx>coal mine can disappear
13:46<Vadtec>nah, no patchpack
13:46<+glx>same for all primary industries
13:46<Vadtec>nope, no industry grfs
13:46<Vadtec>glx... can disappear even with excellent supply and transport?
13:46<+glx>but secondary industries like factory should stay if you provide cargo
13:47<+glx>coal is a "finite" ressource :)
13:48<Vadtec>well that was the smallest coal mine ever then
13:48<Vadtec>ive had games where ive had coal mines producing 1000+ for 100+ years
13:48<Vadtec>this one lasted barely 20
13:48<andythenorth>default coal mine cannot close if station rating is > x%
13:49<Vadtec>not sure what the rating was
13:49<andythenorth>eh, actually there might be a case where production multiplier falls enough times on random chance
13:49<Vadtec>it should have had a high rating
13:49<andythenorth>which economy setting?
13:50<andythenorth>(smooth economy on or off?)
13:50<Vadtec>smooth on
13:51<Vadtec>i dunno
13:51<Vadtec>this game has been weird
13:51<Vadtec>it took the cargodist almost a full game year to balance in a new route for goods i added
13:52<Vadtec>i probably need to nuke the game folder and start over, ive been screwing with grfs alot with this version
13:52<andythenorth>have you changed the grfs while the game is running?
13:53<andythenorth>probably fine then
13:55<Vadtec>meh, if it keeps up ill shutdown and nuke the game folder, not like im loosing some huge ass empire or anything lol
14:06<Vadtec>has anyone ever played a game where their trains were 64 tiles long? was it any fun?
14:08<andythenorth>yes and yes
14:08<andythenorth>but the novelty wears off fast
14:08<Vadtec>ive gone as long as 12 tiles before
14:08<andythenorth>you need a bunch of very high production industries, mines or so
14:08<Vadtec>i just dont see how you're supposed to keep the raiting up with a 64 tile long train
14:09<@Alberth>don't do full load :p
14:09<andythenorth>there’s a grf that adjusts station ratings, for this purpose
14:10*Vadtec goes looking
14:13<andythenorth>used to be in FIRS, but I deleted it
14:13<andythenorth>so 3iff copied it to a new grf
14:14<Vadtec>ah, cool
14:14<Vadtec>omg...lost another oil well
14:15<@Alberth>LordAro: you missed one :p
14:15<Vadtec>sucked it dry lol
14:15<LordAro>Alberth: interesting, where did you find that? :p
14:15<@Alberth>my compiler does :p
14:15<LordAro>which version?
14:16<@Alberth>g++ (GCC) 6.3.1 20161221 (Red Hat 6.3.1-1)
14:16<LordAro>wonder why it's disappeared with 7.1.1 then
14:17<@Alberth>it's a false positive, so likely fixed
14:19<@Alberth> /o
14:19<LordAro>/o pm
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15:03<Snail>hey andythenorth
15:04<andythenorth>hey Snail
15:04<Snail>I’m going through your new cargo list, just to have an idea of all the new labels you introduced...
15:04<Snail>but I seem I can’t find the explanation of “vehicle bodies” in the FIRS docs
15:04<Snail>I’m looking here:
15:05<Snail>I can see “vehicle parts”, not “vehicle bodies”. I’d like to have an idea before drawing them on my wagons
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15:06<andythenorth>the ‘push’ docs give you a better idea of what’s new
15:06<andythenorth>BUT they change often :P
15:07<andythenorth>after play-testing I often remove new cargos
15:07<Snail>sounds so lovely… from a set developer’s POV :D
15:08<Snail>especially because I would clearly see “vehicle bodies” as a subcargo of “vehicle parts"
15:10<andythenorth>it’s not a classification system :)
15:10<andythenorth>cargos are designed to make industry chains work
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15:11<andythenorth>so in this case it gives a connection from metal to vehicles
15:11<Snail>vehicle bodies?
15:11<Snail>can’t you use vehicle parts to make that connection?
15:12<andythenorth>well yes, but then it makes no sense
15:12<andythenorth>all things are possible :)
15:12<Snail>guess so
15:12<andythenorth>not all things make a good cargo flow in game
15:12<Snail>thinking about it, it would be fun to strip my cars out of wheels and glass… and have them as a new cargo
15:13<Snail>but that would be hardly noticeable, given the small size
15:13<andythenorth>do truck cabs
15:13<@Alberth>nuts, bolts
15:13<Snail>I have tractors
15:13<andythenorth>here’s how CHIPS does it
15:14<andythenorth>I just blacked out the windows and cut off the cabs from
15:14<Wolf01><andythenorth> so in this case it gives a connection from metal to vehicles <- I always play metal on road trips
15:14*andythenorth plays 80s music
15:15<Wolf01>Usually that too, but I prefer metal
15:16<Snail>andythenorth: I love your truck cabs, but they’re too big to fit my trains
15:16<Snail>I’d have to draw new ones… I’ll think about that
15:16<andythenorth>fair :)
15:16<Snail>also I like to draw realistic ones :D
15:16<andythenorth>FIRS must be a nightmare for vehicle authors :P
15:16<andythenorth>there are now 63 cargos
15:16<Snail>well, at least you’re honest enough to accept it :D
15:17<andythenorth>I make 3 active vehicle sets and a station set :P
15:17<andythenorth>I have skin in the game when I add cargos ;)
15:18<Snail>let’s say bulk cargo is not that much of a problem (I usually deal with it using recoloring)
15:19<Snail>it’s piece good cargo that’s a pain, because I need to draw new stuff
15:20<andythenorth>there’s a reason I put a month or so into automating cargo placement on vehicles :)
15:21<andythenorth>also, tarpaulins and crates solve a lot of problems
15:21<Snail>but I can’t put “vehicle bodies” in crates :D
15:21<@planetmaker>crates, barrels, containers ftw ;)
15:21<@Alberth>so boring :p
15:21<@planetmaker>that, too :)
15:22<@planetmaker>I totally understand the notion to draw nice fitting cargoes for the vehicles. It really adds to the flair and beauty
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15:57<andythenorth>going to be beaten by NCG
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16:16<supermop_home>this steam truck looks ugly
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16:23<rubenwardy_>please may someone have a look at my signalling system:
16:23<rubenwardy_>Thought I knew OTTD, apparently not
16:23<rubenwardy_>those are all one way paths
16:24<rubenwardy_>there's two exits, one with three tracks which merges to one track (left) one with one track (bottom). The two trains shown are stuck
16:24<rubenwardy_>this is 1.6.1
16:25<frosch123>you probably have 90-degree turns disabled
16:25<frosch123>so the train on the upper platform cannot reach the exit at the bottom
16:25<rubenwardy_>it shouldn't need to take any 90-deg
16:25<rubenwardy_>I see one
16:25<frosch123>anyway, also enable "show track reservation"
16:26<rubenwardy_>the train on top wants to go left
16:26<rubenwardy_>will do
16:26<rubenwardy_>the only track that changed color is the one where the training is looping
16:26<frosch123>another common issue is to forget electrification on some track pieces
16:27<rubenwardy_>that is what I've done
16:27<rubenwardy_>silly me
16:27<frosch123>yw :)
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16:43<andythenorth>supermop_home: stick a chimney on a normal truck, and paint the windows black (no glass)
16:44<andythenorth>seems to work :P
16:44<Vadtec>andythenorth: im playing FIRS for the first time, i really like the enhanced production levels and interdependency of all the industries
16:45<Vadtec>makes train networks behave more normally
16:45<andythenorth>which FIRS economy are you playing? :)
16:46<Vadtec>temperate basic
16:46<andythenorth>yeah that’s a nice one, not too big
16:46<andythenorth>quite a nice flow, the chart shows it
16:47<Vadtec>the psycho in me wants to do extreme :P
16:47<andythenorth>it isn’t crap, but I don’t like it very much
16:48<andythenorth>In A Hot Country is pretty simplistic, quite relaxing usually, most things get exports
16:48<andythenorth>exported *
16:49<Vadtec>im about to saturate this line trying to keep up with chemicals lol...
16:50<Vadtec>i better redesign this station before i get boxed in, or its gonna crush itself lol
16:50<Vadtec>i love problems like this
16:51<Alkel_U3>I'd like to try heart of darkness but I'd like a train set in the spirit of troprs set with it. Sadly that one's quite old and incompatible with some of the new cargos.
16:51<andythenorth>one day I’ll finish making one :P
16:51<supermop_home>iron antelope
16:52<Alkel_U3>that's a new roster for iron Horse?
16:53<andythenorth>mostly playable
16:53<andythenorth>but the graphics are unfinished
16:53<supermop_home>it seems more or less done
16:53<supermop_home>what sprites are needed?
16:53<andythenorth>various steam engines
16:54<andythenorth>can’t remember which
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16:54<Alkel_U3>can I get my hands on the developement version somwhere or are you just saying "soon"? :-)
16:55<supermop_home>I cant draw steam for you
16:57<andythenorth>Alkel_U3: version here should include Antelope roster
16:57<andythenorth>the parameters might be buggy
16:58<andythenorth>yeah it’s on roster 2, keep clicking the roster parameter until it shows up
16:58<andythenorth>it needs Termite
16:58<andythenorth>most of the trains are narrow gauge
16:59<andythenorth>ach NCG beat me: 129% food, 39% explosives, 113% peat
16:59<andythenorth>120k tonnes goals, 16 years (actually 15 due to the NCG bug)
17:00<Alkel_U3>then I better learn fast to code that dual-gauge track in nml :-)
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22:47<Vadtec>is there by chance a "copy n paste" script/mod/grf/whatever? would make dealing with these tetrathorps so much easier
23:02<supermop_home>there was a patch
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---Logclosed Tue May 30 00:00:12 2017