| --- | Log | opened Mon May 29 00:00:11 2017 |
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| 02:20 | <andythenorth> | o/ |
| 02:58 | <V453000> | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOi9sKMmYus |
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| 03:05 | <andythenorth> | such F |
| 03:22 | <andythenorth> | industries https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1187141#p1187141 |
| 03:26 | <@peter1138> | too clean & sharp |
| 03:39 | <andythenorth> | it’s brand new! |
| 03:39 | <andythenorth> | paint is still shiny |
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| 05:05 | <Wolf01> | o/ |
| 05:07 | <crem> | o// |
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| 09:01 | <supermop_home> | yo |
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| 09:56 | <andythenorth> | but also |
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| 10:41 | <supermop_home> | more paper mills? |
| 10:45 | <andythenorth> | so many |
| 10:50 | <supermop_home> | advantage of lots of square footed buildings |
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| 10:54 | <@Alberth> | o/ |
| 10:55 | <andythenorth> | lo Alberth |
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| 11:06 | <@Alberth> | new industry peatlands looks very much under construction :p |
| 11:07 | <@Alberth> | same globally brown-ish colour :) |
| 11:08 | <andythenorth> | irl they’re quite…boring |
| 11:08 | <andythenorth> | I might get hit by inspiration some time |
| 11:08 | <@Alberth> | I saw the photo, very large, very flat |
| 11:09 | <andythenorth> | the tiles should at least show a difference in front / behind the harvesters |
| 11:09 | <andythenorth> | peat pile in front, bare ground behind |
| 11:09 | <@Alberth> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Peat_stacks_and_cutting.JPG |
| 11:11 | <andythenorth> | yes I could draw the bricks |
| 11:11 | <andythenorth> | and channels of water in the ground that drain the mire |
| 11:11 | <@Alberth> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Peat-Stack_in_Ness,_Outer_Hebrides,_Scotland.jpg more boring stack |
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| 11:14 | <@Alberth> | looks like a very finite resource, unless you play for a few thousand years :p |
| 11:15 | <andythenorth> | peat caused capitalism |
| 11:17 | <andythenorth> | Dutch people dug the peat, then needed to keep the land drained |
| 11:17 | <andythenorth> | so they bought shares in windmills |
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| 11:17 | <andythenorth> | lo Snail |
| 11:22 | <@Alberth> | hmm, blaming us eh? :p |
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| 11:37 | <supermop_home> | http://imgur.com/a/zbRvN |
| 11:37 | <supermop_home> | trucks working |
| 11:47 | <@Alberth> | :O great! |
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| 11:49 | <supermop_home> | now need to give all the new trucks better names |
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| 11:54 | <V453000> | took me 2 years already to make 1 road type |
| 11:54 | <V453000> | how many will it take to make all the new ones? :D |
| 11:55 | <@Alberth> | depends on how much you want to change with the current one :) |
| 11:56 | <V453000> | about redo :P |
| 11:57 | <@Alberth> | based on previous experience, I'd say 2 years |
| 11:59 | <supermop_home> | do I need to use random_switch? can I just use switch with random_bits as the thing to test? |
| 12:01 | <@Alberth> | there was an important difference between them, not sure what it was, random_bits are more stable iirc |
| 12:01 | <supermop_home> | i don't see a random_switch trigger for 'is built' |
| 12:02 | <supermop_home> | I only want to randomize once, on vehicle purchase |
| 12:03 | <V453000> | I always used random switch, frosch might have added some random bits when he was writing rainbow slugs though |
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| 12:04 | <@Alberth> | random_bits does point to random_switch |
| 12:05 | <andythenorth> | trucks :) |
| 12:05 | <supermop_home> | bendy busses next |
| 12:06 | <andythenorth> | ach, all the forums action is BR Set |
| 12:06 | <andythenorth> | good luck to it though :) |
| 12:06 | <supermop_home> | go hype up mop generic road vehicles |
| 12:07 | <andythenorth> | sets made by one person get low-traffic threads |
| 12:07 | <andythenorth> | for obvious reasons, compared to a group collaborating |
| 12:07 | <andythenorth> | also it’s impossible to produce much drama posts when working alone |
| 12:08 | <supermop_home> | go shit talk my trucks then |
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| 12:55 | <Vadtec> | when reserving land for later use near a town, is it necessary to purchase *all* the tiles you want to reserve, or can you just purchase the outline of the tiles you want to reserve to keep the town out? |
| 12:56 | <@Alberth> | outline seems to work last time I tried |
| 12:56 | <@Alberth> | unless you have AI that thinks "eh, free space for my new airport" :p |
| 12:56 | <Vadtec> | heh, true, had that happen once |
| 12:57 | <@Alberth> | one bought tile in the middle solves that problem :p |
| 12:58 | <@Alberth> | maybe even just near roads is sufficient, but not sure |
| 12:58 | <Vadtec> | i feel like a moron for not having thought of that |
| 12:58 | <@Alberth> | I hardly ever play near a city |
| 12:58 | <Vadtec> | i use planes to feed my rail habbit |
| 12:58 | <Vadtec> | :P |
| 12:58 | <Vadtec> | few good routes of valuables and i can build whatever rail network i want |
| 12:59 | <@Alberth> | I do industries only, mostly |
| 12:59 | <@Alberth> | and when sufficiently bored, I may move some goods to the towns |
| 13:00 | * | andythenorth plays FIRS |
| 13:00 | <@Alberth> | with BB ? |
| 13:00 | <andythenorth> | NCG |
| 13:00 | <andythenorth> | 15 years, 120,000t per cargo |
| 13:00 | <andythenorth> | also, I think Arctic Basic is ‘done’ for v3, download here http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/ |
| 13:01 | <@Alberth> | I might want to try NCG some more, never played much with it, tbh |
| 13:01 | <andythenorth> | it’s fun, but it forces a very linear play-style |
| 13:01 | <andythenorth> | especially in a short game, all choices have to support only the goal |
| 13:01 | <andythenorth> | so nice-looking stations etc are strictly wasting time and money |
| 13:02 | <andythenorth> | if the goal numbers are set well, it also has a frantic late-game stage, manic last 2 years |
| 13:04 | <andythenorth> | it might be interesting to have a variant of NCG with ‘all cargos' |
| 13:04 | <andythenorth> | although ‘more’ is not always better :P |
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| 13:19 | <LordAro> | ooh, lots of pretty warnings with gcc7.1 |
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| 13:25 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: 5572 is latest? build date suggests it is, but I have firses with higher numbers |
| 13:26 | <andythenorth> | 5626 is my local rev |
| 13:26 | <andythenorth> | dunno what bundles does with version numbers |
| 13:26 | <andythenorth> | that looks like a bug though |
| 13:26 | <andythenorth> | :| |
| 13:28 | <@Alberth> | https://paste.openttdcoop.org/psxslesgb I have even higher numbers, time-stamp is download time of course, rather than creation time at devzone |
| 13:30 | <@Alberth> | http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/ <-- much higher numbers |
| 13:32 | <LordAro> | frosch123: quak https://pastebin.com/M9nDTUx4 |
| 13:33 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: that’s interesting, not sure where those come from |
| 13:33 | <andythenorth> | mine matches hg revs |
| 13:34 | <@Alberth> | inside it's again 5572 |
| 13:34 | <frosch123> | LordAro: some look legit |
| 13:34 | <frosch123> | like fios.cpp |
| 13:34 | <andythenorth> | I guess I haven’t finished patching the makefile then :P |
| 13:34 | <@Alberth> | (I picked 6358) |
| 13:35 | <frosch123> | LordAro: is there a "fallthrough" attribute meanwhile? |
| 13:35 | <LordAro> | /* FALLTHROUGH */ i think is "standard" |
| 13:35 | <frosch123> | i mean something the compiler knows |
| 13:35 | <LordAro> | other than that, there are "actual" attributes, with varying amounts of support |
| 13:35 | <frosch123> | like __attribute__(__fallthrough__) |
| 13:35 | <LordAro> | https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-7/changes.html |
| 13:36 | <frosch123> | https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Statement-Attributes.html <- there it is |
| 13:36 | <frosch123> | we should add that to stdafx.h |
| 13:36 | <LordAro> | aye |
| 13:36 | <LordAro> | preferring to use [[fallthrough]], ofc ;) |
| 13:38 | <frosch123> | more #ifdef in stdafx.h |
| 13:38 | * | andythenorth ponders a roadstop spec that could show cargo |
| 13:38 | <andythenorth> | bored of building a train station tile to show waiting cargo at roadstops :) |
| 13:39 | <frosch123> | they added attribute namespaces... oh dear |
| 13:42 | <Vadtec> | -_- thats like the 4th time in about 3 years ive had a stupid industry that ive been servicing for 10+ years close right out from under me...with good raitings and decent production...wtf |
| 13:43 | <andythenorth> | nah |
| 13:43 | <andythenorth> | code says that can’t happen |
| 13:44 | <Vadtec> | i just lost a factory that ive been suppling with 300+ grain and livestock close |
| 13:45 | <Vadtec> | lost a coal mine about 10 minutes ago that was supplying 258 coal |
| 13:45 | <andythenorth> | in default game, no industry grfs? |
| 13:45 | <Vadtec> | this game has been weird |
| 13:46 | <andythenorth> | it’s not a patchpack? |
| 13:46 | <Vadtec> | pretty sure its default, lemme check |
| 13:46 | <+glx> | coal mine can disappear |
| 13:46 | <Vadtec> | nah, no patchpack |
| 13:46 | <+glx> | same for all primary industries |
| 13:46 | <Vadtec> | nope, no industry grfs |
| 13:46 | <Vadtec> | glx... can disappear even with excellent supply and transport? |
| 13:46 | <+glx> | but secondary industries like factory should stay if you provide cargo |
| 13:47 | <+glx> | coal is a "finite" ressource :) |
| 13:48 | <Vadtec> | well that was the smallest coal mine ever then |
| 13:48 | <Vadtec> | ive had games where ive had coal mines producing 1000+ for 100+ years |
| 13:48 | <Vadtec> | this one lasted barely 20 |
| 13:48 | <andythenorth> | default coal mine cannot close if station rating is > x% |
| 13:49 | <Vadtec> | not sure what the rating was |
| 13:49 | <andythenorth> | eh, actually there might be a case where production multiplier falls enough times on random chance |
| 13:49 | <andythenorth> | maybe |
| 13:49 | <Vadtec> | it should have had a high rating |
| 13:49 | <andythenorth> | which economy setting? |
| 13:50 | <andythenorth> | (smooth economy on or off?) |
| 13:50 | <Vadtec> | smooth on |
| 13:51 | <Vadtec> | i dunno |
| 13:51 | <Vadtec> | this game has been weird |
| 13:51 | <Vadtec> | it took the cargodist almost a full game year to balance in a new route for goods i added |
| 13:52 | <Vadtec> | i probably need to nuke the game folder and start over, ive been screwing with grfs alot with this version |
| 13:52 | <andythenorth> | have you changed the grfs while the game is running? |
| 13:53 | <Vadtec> | nope |
| 13:53 | <andythenorth> | probably fine then |
| 13:55 | <Vadtec> | meh, if it keeps up ill shutdown and nuke the game folder, not like im loosing some huge ass empire or anything lol |
| 14:06 | <Vadtec> | has anyone ever played a game where their trains were 64 tiles long? was it any fun? |
| 14:08 | <andythenorth> | yes and yes |
| 14:08 | <andythenorth> | but the novelty wears off fast |
| 14:08 | <Vadtec> | ive gone as long as 12 tiles before |
| 14:08 | <andythenorth> | you need a bunch of very high production industries, mines or so |
| 14:08 | <Vadtec> | i just dont see how you're supposed to keep the raiting up with a 64 tile long train |
| 14:09 | <@Alberth> | don't do full load :p |
| 14:09 | <andythenorth> | there’s a grf that adjusts station ratings, for this purpose |
| 14:09 | <Vadtec> | oh? |
| 14:10 | * | Vadtec goes looking |
| 14:13 | <andythenorth> | https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=74856 |
| 14:13 | <andythenorth> | used to be in FIRS, but I deleted it |
| 14:13 | <andythenorth> | so 3iff copied it to a new grf |
| 14:14 | <Vadtec> | ah, cool |
| 14:14 | <Vadtec> | omg...lost another oil well |
| 14:14 | <Vadtec> | bleh |
| 14:15 | <@Alberth> | LordAro: you missed one :p https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pxwooab0i |
| 14:15 | <Vadtec> | sucked it dry lol |
| 14:15 | <LordAro> | Alberth: interesting, where did you find that? :p |
| 14:15 | <@Alberth> | my compiler does :p |
| 14:15 | <LordAro> | which version? |
| 14:16 | <@Alberth> | g++ (GCC) 6.3.1 20161221 (Red Hat 6.3.1-1) |
| 14:16 | <LordAro> | huh |
| 14:16 | <LordAro> | wonder why it's disappeared with 7.1.1 then |
| 14:17 | <@Alberth> | it's a false positive, so likely fixed |
| 14:19 | <LordAro> | hehe |
| 14:19 | <@planetmaker> | o/ |
| 14:19 | <@Alberth> | /o |
| 14:19 | <LordAro> | /o pm |
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| 15:03 | <Snail> | hey andythenorth |
| 15:04 | <andythenorth> | hey Snail |
| 15:04 | <Snail> | I’m going through your new cargo list, just to have an idea of all the new labels you introduced... |
| 15:04 | <Snail> | but I seem I can’t find the explanation of “vehicle bodies” in the FIRS docs |
| 15:04 | <Snail> | I’m looking here: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/cargos.html |
| 15:05 | <Snail> | I can see “vehicle parts”, not “vehicle bodies”. I’d like to have an idea before drawing them on my wagons |
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| 15:06 | <andythenorth> | the ‘push’ docs give you a better idea of what’s new http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/get_started.html |
| 15:06 | <andythenorth> | BUT they change often :P |
| 15:07 | <andythenorth> | after play-testing I often remove new cargos |
| 15:07 | <Snail> | :P |
| 15:07 | <Snail> | sounds so lovely… from a set developer’s POV :D |
| 15:08 | <Snail> | especially because I would clearly see “vehicle bodies” as a subcargo of “vehicle parts" |
| 15:10 | <andythenorth> | it’s not a classification system :) |
| 15:10 | <andythenorth> | cargos are designed to make industry chains work |
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| 15:11 | <andythenorth> | so in this case it gives a connection from metal to vehicles |
| 15:11 | <Snail> | vehicle bodies? |
| 15:11 | <andythenorth> | yes |
| 15:11 | <Snail> | can’t you use vehicle parts to make that connection? |
| 15:11 | <andythenorth> | no |
| 15:12 | <andythenorth> | well yes, but then it makes no sense |
| 15:12 | <andythenorth> | all things are possible :) |
| 15:12 | <Snail> | guess so |
| 15:12 | <andythenorth> | not all things make a good cargo flow in game |
| 15:12 | <Snail> | thinking about it, it would be fun to strip my cars out of wheels and glass… and have them as a new cargo |
| 15:13 | <andythenorth> | :) |
| 15:13 | <Snail> | but that would be hardly noticeable, given the small size |
| 15:13 | <andythenorth> | do truck cabs |
| 15:13 | <@Alberth> | nuts, bolts |
| 15:13 | <Snail> | I have tractors |
| 15:13 | <andythenorth> | here’s how CHIPS does it http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/chips/repository/entry/sprites/graphics/vehicle_bodies_cargo.png |
| 15:14 | <andythenorth> | I just blacked out the windows and cut off the cabs from http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#assembly_plant |
| 15:14 | <Wolf01> | <andythenorth> so in this case it gives a connection from metal to vehicles <- I always play metal on road trips |
| 15:14 | <andythenorth> | nice |
| 15:14 | * | andythenorth plays 80s music |
| 15:15 | <Wolf01> | Usually that too, but I prefer metal |
| 15:16 | <Snail> | andythenorth: I love your truck cabs, but they’re too big to fit my trains |
| 15:16 | <Snail> | I’d have to draw new ones… I’ll think about that |
| 15:16 | <andythenorth> | fair :) |
| 15:16 | <Snail> | also I like to draw realistic ones :D |
| 15:16 | <andythenorth> | FIRS must be a nightmare for vehicle authors :P |
| 15:16 | <andythenorth> | there are now 63 cargos |
| 15:16 | <Snail> | well, at least you’re honest enough to accept it :D |
| 15:17 | <andythenorth> | I make 3 active vehicle sets and a station set :P |
| 15:17 | <andythenorth> | I have skin in the game when I add cargos ;) |
| 15:18 | <Snail> | let’s say bulk cargo is not that much of a problem (I usually deal with it using recoloring) |
| 15:19 | <Snail> | it’s piece good cargo that’s a pain, because I need to draw new stuff |
| 15:20 | <andythenorth> | there’s a reason I put a month or so into automating cargo placement on vehicles :) |
| 15:21 | <andythenorth> | also, tarpaulins and crates solve a lot of problems |
| 15:21 | <Snail> | yes |
| 15:21 | <Snail> | but I can’t put “vehicle bodies” in crates :D |
| 15:21 | <@planetmaker> | crates, barrels, containers ftw ;) |
| 15:21 | <@Alberth> | so boring :p |
| 15:21 | <@planetmaker> | that, too :) |
| 15:22 | <@planetmaker> | I totally understand the notion to draw nice fitting cargoes for the vehicles. It really adds to the flair and beauty |
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| 15:57 | <andythenorth> | meh |
| 15:57 | <andythenorth> | going to be beaten by NCG |
| 15:57 | <andythenorth> | :| |
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| 16:16 | <supermop_home> | this steam truck looks ugly |
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| 16:23 | <rubenwardy_> | Hi! |
| 16:23 | <rubenwardy_> | please may someone have a look at my signalling system: https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/1dRUALGLj.png |
| 16:23 | <rubenwardy_> | Thought I knew OTTD, apparently not |
| 16:23 | <rubenwardy_> | those are all one way paths |
| 16:24 | <rubenwardy_> | there's two exits, one with three tracks which merges to one track (left) one with one track (bottom). The two trains shown are stuck |
| 16:24 | <rubenwardy_> | this is 1.6.1 |
| 16:25 | <frosch123> | you probably have 90-degree turns disabled |
| 16:25 | <frosch123> | so the train on the upper platform cannot reach the exit at the bottom |
| 16:25 | <rubenwardy_> | it shouldn't need to take any 90-deg |
| 16:25 | <rubenwardy_> | ahhh |
| 16:25 | <rubenwardy_> | I see one |
| 16:25 | <frosch123> | anyway, also enable "show track reservation" |
| 16:26 | <rubenwardy_> | the train on top wants to go left |
| 16:26 | <rubenwardy_> | will do |
| 16:26 | <rubenwardy_> | the only track that changed color is the one where the training is looping |
| 16:26 | <frosch123> | another common issue is to forget electrification on some track pieces |
| 16:27 | <rubenwardy_> | oh |
| 16:27 | <rubenwardy_> | that is what I've done |
| 16:27 | <rubenwardy_> | silly me |
| 16:27 | <rubenwardy_> | thanks! |
| 16:27 | <frosch123> | yw :) |
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| 16:43 | <andythenorth> | supermop_home: stick a chimney on a normal truck, and paint the windows black (no glass) |
| 16:44 | <andythenorth> | seems to work :P |
| 16:44 | <Vadtec> | andythenorth: im playing FIRS for the first time, i really like the enhanced production levels and interdependency of all the industries |
| 16:45 | <Vadtec> | makes train networks behave more normally |
| 16:45 | <andythenorth> | which FIRS economy are you playing? :) |
| 16:45 | <Vadtec> | 2.1.5 |
| 16:45 | <Vadtec> | oh |
| 16:45 | <Vadtec> | der... |
| 16:45 | <Vadtec> | sec |
| 16:46 | <Vadtec> | temperate basic |
| 16:46 | <andythenorth> | yeah that’s a nice one, not too big |
| 16:46 | <andythenorth> | http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/2.1.5/docs/html/economies.html#temperate_basic |
| 16:46 | <andythenorth> | quite a nice flow, the chart shows it |
| 16:47 | <Vadtec> | yeah |
| 16:47 | <Vadtec> | the psycho in me wants to do extreme :P |
| 16:47 | <andythenorth> | it isn’t crap, but I don’t like it very much |
| 16:48 | <andythenorth> | In A Hot Country is pretty simplistic, quite relaxing usually, most things get exports |
| 16:48 | <andythenorth> | exported * |
| 16:49 | <Vadtec> | im about to saturate this line trying to keep up with chemicals lol... |
| 16:50 | <Vadtec> | i better redesign this station before i get boxed in, or its gonna crush itself lol |
| 16:50 | <Vadtec> | i love problems like this |
| 16:51 | <Alkel_U3> | I'd like to try heart of darkness but I'd like a train set in the spirit of troprs set with it. Sadly that one's quite old and incompatible with some of the new cargos. |
| 16:51 | <andythenorth> | one day I’ll finish making one :P |
| 16:51 | <supermop_home> | iron antelope |
| 16:51 | <andythenorth> | yup |
| 16:52 | <Alkel_U3> | that's a new roster for iron Horse? |
| 16:53 | <andythenorth> | yup |
| 16:53 | <andythenorth> | mostly playable |
| 16:53 | <andythenorth> | but the graphics are unfinished |
| 16:53 | <supermop_home> | it seems more or less done |
| 16:53 | <supermop_home> | what sprites are needed? |
| 16:53 | <andythenorth> | various steam engines |
| 16:54 | <andythenorth> | can’t remember which |
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| 16:54 | <Alkel_U3> | can I get my hands on the developement version somwhere or are you just saying "soon"? :-) |
| 16:54 | <supermop_home> | icjk |
| 16:55 | <supermop_home> | I cant draw steam for you |
| 16:57 | <andythenorth> | Alkel_U3: version here should include Antelope roster http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/iron-horse/push/LATEST/ |
| 16:57 | <andythenorth> | the parameters might be buggy |
| 16:57 | <Alkel_U3> | thanks |
| 16:58 | <andythenorth> | yeah it’s on roster 2, keep clicking the roster parameter until it shows up |
| 16:58 | <andythenorth> | it needs Termite |
| 16:58 | <andythenorth> | most of the trains are narrow gauge |
| 16:59 | <andythenorth> | ach NCG beat me: 129% food, 39% explosives, 113% peat |
| 16:59 | <andythenorth> | :X |
| 16:59 | <andythenorth> | 120k tonnes goals, 16 years (actually 15 due to the NCG bug) |
| 17:00 | <Alkel_U3> | then I better learn fast to code that dual-gauge track in nml :-) |
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| 19:13 | <Wolf01> | 'night |
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| 22:47 | <Vadtec> | is there by chance a "copy n paste" script/mod/grf/whatever? would make dealing with these tetrathorps so much easier |
| 23:02 | <supermop_home> | there was a patch |
| 23:07 | <supermop_home> | https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=76402&p=1187190#p1187190 |
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| --- | Log | closed Tue May 30 00:00:12 2017 |
