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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-05-31

---Logopened Wed May 31 00:00:13 2017
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09:38<supermop>ST2: trucks not on bananas yet because the need NRT
09:39<supermop>you can find some old station grfs of mine on bananas though
09:42<V453000>I thought NRT was in stable already?
09:43<supermop>not that i know of
09:43<supermop>although it's probably close
09:43<supermop>there is nothing that causes crases in it
09:44<supermop>only remaining work is really a matter of taste
09:44<supermop>like, should you be allowed to upgrade a town road? that's kind of a philosophical question
09:44<Wolf01>NRT is far from complete
09:45<Wolf01>You still find bugs :P
09:45<Wolf01>I should fix that convert thing
09:45<supermop>Wolf01: i've never seen a bug - the convert thing is not so much a bug as just the way it is, though i'd like to see it changed
09:46<supermop>i'd also like to see variety of town road types, and road that cannot spawn houses
09:46<supermop>but between gaining those features and just seeing NRT as is in trunk, i'll take the trunk path
09:48<supermop>V453000: the only reason i made a road set and a trolley truck set is to prod either development or inclusion of nrt
09:49<supermop>though i guess now i can reuse my code to make a set out of those rendered melbourne streets i modeled two years ago
09:50<V453000>yarr :)
09:51<Wolf01>There's the whole gamescript stuff to finish
09:51<supermop>surely that can be done later?
09:52<Wolf01>Also the HasAvailableInfrastructure() I'm working on, which needs some tweaking
09:52<supermop>V453000: when compositing sprites, is there any like z-ordering to determine what ovelaps what?
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09:54<supermop>like if i have a container on a flatbed truck, when truck is driving north, i want the container drawn in front of the cab, but when it is driving south i want the cab drawn in front of the container
09:57<V453000>I think there is some order yeah but I haven't even gotten to that
09:57<V453000>I know frosch told me I can even define different ordering per rotation
09:57<supermop>that's what i want
09:57<V453000>which is important so that your cabin doesn't draw over cargo when facing away
09:58<V453000>well yeah then that's all I know, I didn't actually try it though
09:58<supermop>otherwise i need to draw like a container with notch cut out when facing forward,
09:58<V453000>yeah I understand
09:58<supermop>ill ask frosch when i get to that point
09:59<supermop>currently all my cargo is part of trailer or truck sprite, which causes huge amount of sprites
10:00<supermop>not a problem as they are all tiny files, but if i render 32bpp versions...
10:00<V453000>shit I had so many dreams about nuts cargo layering
10:00<V453000>no time :(
10:00<V453000>factorio + family = all time
10:01<supermop>last few weeks my design job has been taking between 70-80 hrs per week
10:01<supermop>which took up all the time i wanted to spend on looking for a new job that wouldn't take up so much time
10:02<supermop>luckily had this past weekend off to crank out trucks, but was a bit annoying for my wife
10:03<supermop>mostly because she hates messy code
10:03<supermop>she'd walk by my computer and see my messy indentations
10:03<supermop>and be like 'why are you coding in notepad!?"
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10:08<V453000>oh jeez programmer wife
10:09<supermop>data scientist
10:09<LordAro>scientists don't care about code quality
10:12<supermop>hmm code bendy buses first and just use two regular bus sprites, or draw sprites first and get stuck in several days of tweaking bus pixels?
10:13<supermop>kind of want them to be 8+2+6 rather than 8+8
10:13<supermop>make the bendy accordian part its own segment
10:17<supermop>here is an idea: bendy part is part of rear segment, but you draw it flexing one way or the other based on cb checking "curv_info_prev_cur"
10:19<supermop>for semi trucks, you could do the same thing for the hitch of the cab that goes under the trailer
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10:30<supermop>can i concact strings?
10:32<supermop>so i could make Mop X1 Flatbed Truck, but it randomly choose the "mop" name and the "x1"
10:38<supermop>not sure this solves any problem
10:43<Wolf01>andy did something like that IIRC
10:45<supermop>even with no random, it might make it easier for me to name all these damn trucks
10:47<supermop>though if the names of trucks could be different each play though that could be a neat illusion
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10:49<@planetmaker>LordAro, that depends on what kind of scientist ;)
10:50<@planetmaker>supermop, you can upload to bananas also NewGRFs which need special OpenTTD versions. You can query the versions and disable the NewGRF when the proper one is not found. And even restrict visibility to certain OpenTTD versions on the bananas side
10:50<@planetmaker>Not sure how NRT deals with the versions though
10:51<supermop>planetmaker: mabe once I add busses i'll consider that
10:51<LordAro>planetmaker: very true :)
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10:55<@planetmaker>supermop, openttd_version and probably NRT could define a variable that NRT is enabled in the ttdpatch flags maybe
10:55<@planetmaker>not sure it's worth the trouble, though
10:59<@planetmaker> <-- in there. maybe
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11:11<Wolf01> what's so unrealistic about this image?
11:11<Taede>looks perfectly normal to me
11:11<Wolf01>The game does not have roundabouts :(
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12:01<supermop>hmm does an articulated bus hold more or less than twice the passengers of a regular bus?
12:01<supermop>twice the length in game for 1.5 the capacity makes no gameplay sense
12:02<supermop>twice the capacity for twice the length works if there is a noticeable running cost savings
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12:10<Eddi|zuHause>articulated busses are not twice the length...
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>the articulated extension is shorter than the base part
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>so you get 1.5 the size for 1.5 the capacity
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>regular bus is 12m, articulated bus is 18.75m
12:12<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: shouldn't the capacity be a bit higher, as people can stand in the bendy part, and there is no drivers area?
12:13<supermop>like 1.8 capacity for 1.5 length
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>that depends a lot on the configuration of the bus (city busses tend to have fewer seats than long distance busses) and whether you count standing places at all
12:14<supermop>also - in game costs are an afterthought, so there must be a bonus in density of seats per tile to justify the constrained granularity
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>also, trading number of doors for quicker entry/exit for fewer seating places
12:16<supermop>yes well you could have multiple bus types that trade off capacity/cargo age/load speed
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12:17<supermop>for now this bus will be 8/8 + 8/8 because i can test it without drawing new sprites
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12:19<Eddi|zuHause>i suggest making the bus 7+5
12:29<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: chopping 4px off the back of a regular bus to get a 7/8 front part looks pretty good
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12:29<supermop> name: string(STR_MRR_TB + STR_TBUS_2);
12:29<supermop>want to take bets on if that will work
12:31<Eddi|zuHause>you likely want something like "string(STR_CONCAT, string(STR_1), string(STR_2))"
12:32<Eddi|zuHause>where "STR_CONCAT:{STRING}{STRING}"
12:35<Eddi|zuHause>why, for the past like 5 months or so, i have been looking at games and said to myself "hey, that looks nice, i would pay X for it", and then i look at the price and it's 2*X?
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12:39<supermop>it doesnt seem to recognize that
12:40<supermop>"Unknown string "STR_CONCAT""
12:41<supermop>is there a way i can just define a string as a combination of two strings elsewhere?
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>yes, you need to define STR_CONCAT in your lang file
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>with the line i posted above
12:42<supermop>just like that?
12:42<supermop>ill try it
12:43<supermop>well no errors
12:44<supermop>now i wonder if i can get more exotic and have a switch
12:44<Eddi|zuHause>no, vehicle names cannot have switches
12:48<supermop>oh well
12:48<supermop>this still saves me a lot of strings
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12:53<supermop>what soundds better, 'flatbed trolley truck' or 'trolley flatbed truck'
12:53<supermop>'articulated trolley bus' or 'electric articulated bus'
12:55<Eddi|zuHause>first one for both
12:55<@Alberth>flatbed trolley truck, imho
12:55<@Alberth>is "articulated" of any importance?
12:56<@Alberth>ie, would it be comparable to "steel bus"?
12:56<@Alberth>(as in, it's made of steel)
12:58<supermop>Alberth: only to differentiate long and short buses in buy menu
13:00<@Alberth>and articulated is the common term for that?
13:00<@Alberth>I'd expect "long bus" or so
13:00<@Alberth>or maybe the suggestion by Eddi
13:01<@Alberth>although still quite techy
13:01<supermop>articulated is what we'd typically call it, though colloquially i've heard them called bendy buses in the uk
13:02<supermop>in new york, i never hear anyone talk about them colloquially
13:02<@Alberth>ok, that's fine, I was just wondering if it's more than a name in OpenTTD NewGRF
13:03<supermop>most major routes are all articulated anyway so they do not seem notable, people who think about transit a lot call them articulated, everyone else just calls them buses
13:03<@Alberth>I have that same problem with the "2ccset" which suggests that its most important feature is being 2cc, rather than a set of vehicles for some purpose
13:03<Eddi|zuHause>debdog: well, colloquial names include "Schlenkerbus" or "Schlenki" :p
13:04<Eddi|zuHause>(these might be regional)
13:04<debdog>yeah, never heard them
13:05<supermop>i like schlenki
13:05<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, definitely regional ;) (never heard that)
13:06<supermop>maybe that will be a model name
13:06<@planetmaker>but definitely a funny word :)
13:07<@planetmaker>to German ears that sounds like to an English-speaking person maybe wiggly sounds
13:07<supermop>also like a slinky
13:08<@planetmaker>Ziehharmonikabus is what we call(ed) it
13:09<@Alberth>supermop: I'd expect the "e" to be pronounced like the "e" in egg
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>unrelated, but colloquial names for "Zieharmonika" include "Quetschkommode" :p
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>i've never heard "Quetschkommodenbus" though :p
13:10<@planetmaker>hehe, me neither
13:10<supermop>Alberth: it still has the same feeling of sound
13:10<@Alberth>oh sure, it's just a little less "i"-ish
13:11<@Alberth>you can use all the different names for this type of bus as names :p
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: the words are likely related (have the same root), but not directly connected
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: the dictionary defines "Schlenker" as "sudden turn in a straight movement" or "detour"
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>the verb "schlenkern" has a few more meanings
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>like arms swinging back and forth
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14:11<andythenorth>no frosch? o_O
14:13<Wolf01>Seems not
14:17*Wolf01 -> pub
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14:23<frosch123>RSVP? since when do english people use french abbreviations?
14:24<andythenorth>since always :)
14:24<andythenorth>also latin ones :P
14:26<andythenorth>frosch123: can haz FIRS question?
14:26<andythenorth>got a recent build of it?
14:27<frosch123>it's from this year
14:27<andythenorth>secondary industries now show ‘supplied’ on a per-cargo basis
14:27<andythenorth>which works great
14:27<andythenorth>not sure what to do with primaries
14:29<andythenorth>‘supplied’ might not be enough information, you need to know if it’s enough for ‘enhanced’ or ‘gung-ho'
14:29<andythenorth>which is show separately
14:29<supermop>frosch123: since 1066CE
14:29<andythenorth>port industries have it worse even :)
14:30<frosch123>supermop: poor welsh people
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14:37<frosch123>andythenorth: you want to display "(5 crates in past 3 months)"?
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14:47<andythenorth>maybe :)
14:47<andythenorth>not sure what looks best to player
14:48<frosch123>i think the text at the bottom is fine
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14:53<andythenorth>shall I just omit the ‘supplied’?
14:53<andythenorth>it’s the least work :)
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14:58<frosch123>you could also just add 3 numbers
14:58<frosch123>"farm supplies (30, 10, 20)"
14:58<frosch123>so you can also see how long ago the delivery was
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15:13<andythenorth>bit detailed
15:21<frosch123>just tell people in the readme to use the newgrf inspect window
15:26<andythenorth>primaries are really just ok as they are
15:28<andythenorth>port-type industries aren’t quite so good, because they have 2 or 3 input cargos
15:28<andythenorth>and you want to know which ones are delivered recently
15:31<supermop>bendy busses
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15:34<andythenorth>eh the cargos don’t combine though, so maybe it doesn’t matter
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15:37*andythenorth ducks a big chunk of work for FIRS v3
15:37<frosch123>what distinguishes firs3 from firs2?
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15:41<andythenorth>Steeltown economy, reworked Arctic Basic economy
15:41<andythenorth>improved lots of graphics
15:42<andythenorth>removed most of the industry ‘extra info’ text
15:43<frosch123>i thought all of that was already released :o
15:44<andythenorth>still got 3 industries to draw
15:45<andythenorth>I’m going to give it a new grfid I think, because there will be haters of v3
15:45<andythenorth>they can keep v2 :P
15:46<supermop>release as collectors 3 DVD set
15:46<supermop>is FIRS 10 years old yet?
15:47<frosch123>unlikely, newindustries was only implenented to ottd 10 years ago
15:47<supermop>ok you have some time for the special 10th aniversary edition andythenorth
15:48<andythenorth>FIRS started in Nov. 2008
15:49<andythenorth>the date stuck because I was in Mumbai at the time, and it was attacked
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15:55<@planetmaker>:-O nearly 10 years FIRS?
15:55<@planetmaker>Will we have a 10-years-firs party? :)
15:57<Eddi|zuHause>we didn't have a party for quite a while now
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>and it's not like we reach r30k anytime soon :p
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16:22<andythenorth>we could have had a FIRS 5k party :P
16:22<andythenorth>but we’re late
16:29<supermop>for some reason, nmlc complains that line 214 has no :
16:29<supermop>when it clearly does
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16:30*andythenorth looks
16:31<supermop>haven't changed that line since this morning when it worked fine
16:32<andythenorth>something like that is usually an error elswhere, tripping up the parser
16:32<andythenorth>I am checking the lines before
16:33<andythenorth>can’t see anything there
16:33<supermop>its weird
16:35<supermop>i deleted all those livestock trolley truck strings bc they are not used yet, and it gives the error for the last diesel livestock truck
16:36<supermop>maybe its the following // comment?
16:36<supermop>are comments not allowed?
16:37<@Alberth>try # for comment
16:37<supermop>deleted all comments and it worked
16:37<@Alberth> // is not a comment at least
16:40<@Alberth>hmm, I am not even sure it has comment at all
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>well, the first few lines of that file look like comments to me
16:49<supermop>yeah i forgot and used // instead of #
16:51<@Alberth>always so nice if different files of the same program use different syntax :p
16:53<andythenorth>that never trips me up, ever :P
16:53<andythenorth>except sometimes
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17:20<supermop>bellows part of bendy bus looks too big
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17:24<supermop>i guess its ok. looks stupid in corners
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17:33<Wolf01>Looks nice
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17:40<supermop>I think making the bendy part a separate segment of the vehicle might make corners better
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>corners are tricky with small parts
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17:56-!-Compu is "Compu" on #/r/openttd #openttdcoop #openttdcoop.stable #openttd #help
18:02<supermop>what thinking of using prev curv cb bend the rear part
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21:46-!-dihedral is "Nathanael Rebsch" on #openttd
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---Logclosed Thu Jun 01 00:00:15 2017