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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-06-05

---Logopened Mon Jun 05 00:00:20 2017
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04:45<Wolf01>o/
04:46<nekomaster1>its morning!
04:46<Wolf01>Yep
04:46<nekomaster1>today would be a great day to finish up my narrow gauge stuff :P
04:47<nekomaster1>ONly thing I hate is that I have this feelling I have something important to do but I know I have nothing to do today (other then maybe dishes and have a shower)
04:58<Eddi|zuHause>we call this "holiday"
04:58<nekomaster1>Hmm?
04:58<nekomaster1>Mondays are not holidays :P
04:58<Eddi|zuHause>but this monday is.
04:59<nekomaster1>And part of this feeling I have makes me anxious because I know if I dont get shit done then someone is going to get pissed off
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08:47<__ln__>was Volkswagen the only Volks* in the west?
08:48<nekomaster1>Hmm?
08:48<nekomaster1>As far as I know, Theres only one Volkswagen in North America
08:49<__ln__>haha, only an american could respond like that to my question
08:49<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: no, there's also "Volksbank"
08:49<__ln__>ah, yes, i've certainly seen their name and logo
08:50<nekomaster1>ALso I'm not american
08:50<nekomaster1>I'm Canadian
08:50<nekomaster1>:p
08:50<__ln__>i didn't say you're unitedstatesian
08:50<nekomaster1>What?
08:52<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: the fun thing about "amercia does (not) equal the united states" argument is that you can arbitrarily go back and forth on it to support whatever you tried to say
08:52<nekomaster1>HOnestly, My arguement is that if we're going to get technical, then how about we start calling every country byt its full and sometimes complicated or long name
08:53<Eddi|zuHause>like, countries who call themselves different to how everyone else calls them, yet have no idea where that name even comes from?
08:53<nekomaster1>Or how some countries have the common name and an official name
08:53<Eddi|zuHause>("suomi")
08:53<nekomaster1>like Russia, and then theres the Russian Federation
08:54<Wolf01>Like Italy and Bananas' Republic
08:54<nekomaster1>Or Spain, aka The Kingdom of Spain
08:55<nekomaster1>Honestly I think its silly to argue over trivilities like people calling USA "America" or just calling people from USA "American", because last I checked nobody really cares
08:55<nekomaster1>except for the few canadians that dont like being mistaken for an American :P
08:56<__ln__>anyway, the "west" i was referring to in my question obviously wasn't a reference to the wild west.
08:57<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, i can't think of another obvious example. maybe try asking actual westerners :p
08:57<nekomaster1>No, when I here West, I think of the Western Hemi-sphere
08:57<nekomaster1>Or Western Society
08:58<frosch123>Wolf01: he, germany is the banana republic
08:58<frosch123>__ln__: there are also some insurances called volks*
08:59<Wolf01>I'm starting to think it's spreading to the entire EU
08:59<nekomaster1>Isn't volks something along hte line of "people"
08:59<nekomaster1>So like, The Peoples Bank, or the Peoples Insurance
08:59<__ln__>"of the people", "people's"
08:59<frosch123>__ln__: volkswohlbund
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>nekomaster1: yes, and it was a popular prefix in eastern block countries
08:59<nekomaster1>Of the people, we the people
08:59<nekomaster1>i dunno what I just said
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>where socialism was everything about benefiting "the people"
08:59<nekomaster1>I should just go back to finnsihing up my narrow gauge stuff
09:00<Eddi|zuHause>nekomaster1: as in "people's republic of <wherever>"
09:00<frosch123>__ln__: some people also like to collect old volksempfänger
09:00<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: that kinda predates the east/west divide :p
09:01<frosch123>the others don't?
09:01<frosch123>or do you mean that they still need to exist today?
09:01<Eddi|zuHause>possibly, but they were still "actively" in use later
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09:03<Eddi|zuHause>nekomaster1: anyway, the question context was, since "people's <whatever>" was kinda in inflationary use in the east, did western countries stay away from it, or were there also examples of use
09:03<nekomaster1>I dunno about north america, becuase stuff seen as "for the people" tended to seem socialist, and people know how USA was about anything that seemed socialist
09:04<frosch123>__ln__: volkshochschule is still a thing
09:04<nekomaster1>even some Americans think Canada is Socialist
09:04<__ln__>frosch123: right
09:05<Eddi|zuHause>nekomaster1: isn't the canadian head of government from the socialist party?
09:05<nekomaster1>Liberal
09:05<frosch123>not sure when volksschule was replaced by hauptschule
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09:06<Eddi|zuHause>nekomaster1: is that not the same thing? americans call "liberal" what europeans call "socialist"
09:06<nekomaster1>Liberals seems to be the party that wants to get shit done in Canada
09:06<Eddi|zuHause>and european "liberal" is something very different
09:07<nekomaster1>Arm the military, push for new things, even if it sometimes comes with some negatives
09:07<nekomaster1>The Concervatives of Canada where too convervative under Stephen Harper
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10:31<@Alberth>o/
10:31<nekomaster1>oi
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10:48<@Alberth>meh, no truck grf loaded
10:49<@Alberth>hmm, maybe build a canal instead?
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11:30<@Alberth>andy, green is a bad industry colour :)
11:32<frosch123>andy plays on purple map
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11:33<@Alberth>tried that too for a while, but it's too ugly
11:34<@Alberth>http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/peatfields.png
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11:48-!-mode/#openttd [-b *!*Bhootrk_@202.156.206.*] by peter1138
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11:49<andythenorth>oh
11:49<andythenorth>Alberth: $someone could write a colour checker in the FIRS compiler
11:49<andythenorth>a guard against bad industry colours, based on contrast with the map colours
11:50<@peter1138>andythenorth
11:50<andythenorth>is me
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11:55<@Alberth>sounds more like a linter, although integration into nml is more likely for keeping maintained
11:56<andythenorth>could be done at the nml level
11:56<andythenorth>raise a warning
11:58<@Alberth>hmm, map colours are quite hard-coded of course, wouldn't be terribly difficult to do
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13:55<Wolf01>https://www.packtpub.com/packt/offers/free-learning python cookbook anyone?
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14:07<Alkel_U3>Wolf01: thanks, that looks useful
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14:19<@Alberth>I probably know most of it :p
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14:20<Aderonis>Hello, i have a question, can you delete or hide basic TTD vehicles so i can play with only Newgrf vehicles?
14:21<frosch123>that's the default behaviour
14:21<@Alberth>many newgrfs hide default vehicles (but not all)
14:21<@Alberth>alternatively, you can hide them manually with the "hide" button in the buy menu
14:21<frosch123>you probably added a newgrf like "old vehicles, new cargos", which explicitly adds the original ones
14:22<Aderonis>but i must hide all of them manulay, no option to hide all
14:24<Aderonis>thank you all!
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14:29<andythenorth>o/
14:32<Wolf01>o/
14:33<V453000>heyo
14:33<V453000>andythenorth: I am generating code with python XD
14:33<V453000>it's fucking hell
14:33<andythenorth>proper
14:33<Wolf01>Mmmh, cousin asked for a webservice to browse the parameters of various Siemens S7 PLC scattered around the region...
14:33<andythenorth>devloloper
14:33<V453000>idk
14:34<V453000>I could have had it finished by now twice XD
14:34<V453000>hopefully done with the generator tomorrow
14:34<Wolf01>My answer was "yes, 6 months and 7000€"
14:34<V453000>but think of the possibilities!
14:34<V453000>all that code generated in under 1s, you would have been writing it for a day or two
14:34<V453000>writing generator for a week...
14:35<V453000>:P
14:35<V453000>but it's good, learning things
14:36<frosch123>https://xkcd.com/1205/ :)
14:36<V453000>=[
14:38<frosch123>i like the dark grey cells
14:42<V453000>missed opportunity to write something interesting there
14:47<frosch123>i was in a meeting once, where someone talked about a maintenance task that would take 5 days to complete, and then he suggested to run it weekly
14:49<V453000>not bad
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>so you start the task on monday, are finished on friday, the machine is unused on weekends, and then you start the job on monday?
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15:30<supermop>frosch123: you should just add that xkcd to the topic of this channel
15:30<frosch123>sadly there is a limit to the length of the topic
15:33<Eddi|zuHause>just put every xkcd in the topic, they're all relevant
15:37<supermop>random xkcd link
15:37<supermop>will probably be pertinent to any discussion
15:47<Deactivated>Guys what's the limit for that sprite_cache_size_px thing?
15:47<frosch123>512
15:47<Deactivated>ok thx :)
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16:36<Wolf01>https://betanews.com/2017/06/05/apple-new-ipad-pro/ lol
16:37<Wolf01>"and is more powerful than your PC"
16:39<Alkel_U3>Powelful, huh. So, will it melt through the floor or are you required to dip it in liquid nitrogen frequently?
16:40<Wolf01>Apple (and apple fans too) has a strange vision of "powerful"
16:44<andythenorth>is powerful claims
16:45<andythenorth>we have an ipad pro it’s surprisingly powerful
16:45<andythenorth>but it is still a tablet
16:45<frosch123>you you use it to serve dishes?
16:45<frosch123>*can
16:46<andythenorth>you can use it as a table mat
16:46<andythenorth>not for hot drinks though
16:46<frosch123>sounds like you talk from experience
16:48<andythenorth>you can also walk on them
16:48<andythenorth>but you shouldn’t, really
16:49<andythenorth>and you can drop them down the stairs, at least 100% of the times I’ve seen it done
16:49<frosch123>if you have one, you can fight over it. if you have two you can fight with them?
16:49<andythenorth>although I heard it’s not a guaranteed feature
16:49<andythenorth>yes
16:49<andythenorth>both those features are supported
16:52<frosch123>https://twitter.com/4Ever_Waiting/status/820791060465143809 <- another popular feature
16:54<andythenorth>:P
16:54<andythenorth>my kids physically can’t eat unless the ipad is present
16:55<andythenorth>it’s a pavlovian reflex of some kind
16:55<andythenorth>OMG my laptop is outdated :o
16:55<andythenorth>I feel dismayed :P
16:55<andythenorth>I am now .2Ghz behind the bleeding edge
16:56<frosch123>my current computer i am using for the longest time i have ever used a computer
16:56<frosch123>it's 7 years old, never had one in use longer
16:57<andythenorth>my wife’s is about the same
16:58<andythenorth>I added an SSD, it’s really hard to complain about it
16:59<andythenorth>unless you want USB 3, Hi-DPI display, 802.11n etc
16:59<andythenorth>basically it plays netflix and makes word docs
16:59<frosch123>mine even has usb3
16:59<frosch123>but i do not have a usb3 device
17:00<andythenorth>get a USB 3 mouse
17:00<andythenorth>for faster pointing
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>mine has usb3, but only on the back, it's annoying to attach a drive to it
17:00<frosch123>i considered getting a new mouse
17:00<frosch123>it's about 17 years old, and starts looking greasy
17:01<frosch123>it's first generation optical
17:01<andythenorth>microsoft?
17:01<andythenorth>lasts for ever?
17:01<frosch123>logitech
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>i've warranty-replaced my mouse like every 2 years for the past 10 years
17:02<frosch123>it once had this silicone stuff in the places where you touch it
17:02<frosch123>now there are finger shaped holes in it
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17:03<frosch123>the trick to long living mice was, no wireless, and a usb cable extension
17:03<frosch123>and optical i guess
17:04<frosch123>previously either the cable broke, or the ball sensors could no longer be cleaned, or the auto-power off failed and the batteries were empty every two days
17:04<Wolf01>My trick was to feed it the right amount of stuff XD
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>i have no problem with the wirelessness of the mouse
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>but the parts where i touch it degrade really quickly
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>and apparently it's too dusty for the optical sensor
17:07*andythenorth remembers mice
17:10<andythenorth>wtf is simyoulater talking about :)
17:10<andythenorth>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1187511#p1187511
17:10<andythenorth>have I missed a memo?
17:10<Alkel_U3>I liked microsoft wheeled optical mouse the most. I wore the wheel down so much it became unusable but not before 8-10 years of abuse
17:11<andythenorth>is it April 1?
17:11<Eddi|zuHause>i had a microsoft mouse which had something wrapped around the wheel, but that wore off after like a year
17:11<frosch123>tldr?
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17:12<andythenorth>it’s ok, it’s just noise :)
17:12<Wolf01>Redundant informations
17:13<andythenorth>tl;dr: can we have a new map array?
17:13<andythenorth>containing enough bits that we have all the ponies
17:13<andythenorth>but implement them all as hacks on roads
17:13<frosch123>play cirdan
17:13<Eddi|zuHause>didn't we have like 3 of those already?
17:13<andythenorth>for reasons...
17:13<andythenorth>I shall not reply
17:14<Wolf01>Tl;dr: why we didn't change the catenary to be an addon instead of a specific road/track type? The road/track type should only provide the graphics
17:14<andythenorth>that’s where it all started :P
17:14<andythenorth>with my catenary patch :P
17:14<Wolf01>I know
17:14<frosch123>i considered splitting of the road decorations as separate
17:14*andythenorth was right all along!!
17:15<frosch123>and ignore the compatibility
17:15<andythenorth>nyancat roads
17:15<Wolf01>Because the MAIN problem now is that you can't convert a city ROAD to ELRD
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>decoration as in pavement/trees/lamps?
17:15<andythenorth>‘is trolleybus’ or whatever is pink
17:15<frosch123>currently we have n undergrounds, 1 roadtype, 1 tram type
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>clearly the lines on the road should be an overlay over the tram type :p
17:17<frosch123>tram types seem to be as pointless as railtypes
17:17<frosch123>and roadtypes are abused as newobjects
17:17<frosch123>the latter may not be a bad thing
17:18<Eddi|zuHause>instead newobjects should be abused as roadtypes (by giving them statemachines)
17:18<Wolf01>Rails already had the same problem with newstations
17:18<Wolf01>I agree with Eddi
17:19<frosch123>statemachines are a meta game
17:19<Eddi|zuHause>newgrfs are a meta game...
17:19<Wolf01>We need better road control, rails are already at good point as you can control many things, but roads only have oneway
17:19<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: only the realism bullshit ones
17:20<andythenorth>mine are a meta-game :)
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17:20<andythenorth>I play to beat my own bad ideas
17:20<Eddi|zuHause>=> your grfs are realims bullshit :p
17:20<andythenorth>somewhat
17:20<Wolf01>You should really start to learn coding, and make NotWater
17:20<andythenorth>isn’t it
17:21<andythenorth>but first I have to finish FIRS
17:21<frosch123>Wolf01: i thought juanjo already did it?
17:21<andythenorth>also Iron Horse, Road Hog, CHIPS and Unsinkable Sam
17:21<frosch123>was it juanjo?
17:21<andythenorth>also a gamescript
17:21<frosch123>sometimes i swap people
17:21<Wolf01>frosch123, somewhat yes, but there is more
17:22<Wolf01>Andy is really prolific with strange ideas, and the bad part is that I really like them XD
17:27<andythenorth>main idea now: bed
17:28<andythenorth>unless we’re solving ROAD -> ELRD? o_O
17:28<frosch123>we already did, didn't we?
17:28<frosch123>noone implemented it though
17:28<Wolf01>Yes, we did, remove and rebuild
17:29<Wolf01>The same problem exists with oneway (where you can make oneway only your own road)
17:29<frosch123>that's not the same
17:30<frosch123>you can upgrade town bridges for example
17:30<Wolf01>But that is a real influence on vehicle movement
17:33<Wolf01>I would like to finish the patch to check for compatibility, maybe it could also help on these things
17:33<Wolf01>At the current state it fixes the problems in SE
17:33<Wolf01>But it lacks some cases as you stated before
17:34<andythenorth>what was the fix? Always allow overbuilding town roads? o_O
17:34<Wolf01>Allow upgrading roads
17:34<Wolf01>But what "upgrade" means?
17:35<frosch123>andythenorth: allow converting town road to anything that is compatible to ROAD
17:35<andythenorth>seems fair
17:35<frosch123>no other before/afterc compatibility considered
17:36<frosch123>it's best in singleplayer
17:36<frosch123>and there is no proper solution for hostile multiplayer anyway
17:36<Wolf01>Bridges and/or tunnels
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17:37<Wolf01>Too bad we can't have an owner for every roadbit
17:39*andythenorth -> bed
17:39<andythenorth>bye :)
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19:12<Wolf01>'night
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19:36<supermop>I missed all the road talk
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22:10<Vadtec>does anyone have a set of instructions on how to build the dual-tetrathorp? im building it, but i keep coming up with mismatches and its pissin me off
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---Logclosed Tue Jun 06 00:00:22 2017