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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-06-11

---Logopened Sun Jun 11 00:00:29 2017
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02:09<andythenorth>o/
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03:11<@Alberth>o/
03:37<andythenorth>hi
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04:13*andythenorth writing a big changelog :P
04:24<@Alberth> Loads of changes, play the game, and find out!
04:24<@Alberth>diff attached for reference
04:31<andythenorth>half the commits are “try x” and “x didn’t work, remove” :P
04:34<@Alberth>you're supposed to do that in a branch and delete the branch :p
04:34<andythenorth>isn’t it :P
04:34<@Alberth>building a branch at the devzone is tricky I guess
04:35<andythenorth>nah it’s fine
04:35<andythenorth>I’ve done it before
04:35<andythenorth>‘drag and drop’
04:36<andythenorth>7 year old thought it was ‘dragon drop
04:36<andythenorth>'
04:36<@Alberth>that'd much more interesting, at least :)
04:47<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/changelog.html
04:48*andythenorth could use second eyes
04:52<@Alberth>woo, that's lots :)
04:54<andythenorth>oops, found a broken list
04:55<@Alberth>I am not much fan of the word "improved"
04:55<andythenorth>:P
04:55<@Alberth>vehicle industries not new?
04:55<@Alberth>farm a new industry?
04:56<andythenorth>vehicle industries were in v2 ;)
04:56<andythenorth>farm is a bit of a messy rename
04:56*andythenorth might look at that some more
04:56<@Alberth>farm-ish industries are listed twice as new
04:56<andythenorth>confuses people, including 7 year olds
04:56<andythenorth>hmm yes
04:57<andythenorth>seems I had farm before http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#basic_farm
04:57<@Alberth>hmm, did I ever reach vehicles with v2 then, I wonder :)
04:58<andythenorth>looks like I changed farm a bit http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#mixed_farm
04:58<andythenorth>oh, I fixed the issue in IAHC economy where there is ‘arable farm’ and ‘farm’ which was confusing
04:59<andythenorth>then I re-added farm where there is only one in the economy (Steeltown)
04:59<andythenorth>makes total sense eh :P
04:59<@Alberth>improved industry graphics and layouts <-- is a mess, some is just listed, some have explanations, and some are huh? like "renamed to Assembly Plant"
05:00<andythenorth>yeah, that was the broken list
05:00<andythenorth>refresh :)
05:00<@Alberth>:O much better :)
05:03<@Alberth>thhis <-- Brwery line
05:04<andythenorth>fixed thanks
05:07<@Alberth>codechanges, some is in current tense(?) some is in past tense
05:08<@Alberth>"stopped setting multiple unnecessary properties ..." vs "stop setting zextents..."
05:09<@Alberth>lots of goodies! :)
05:13<andythenorth>fixed a bit more
05:15<andythenorth>ach Blast Furnace / Steel Mill is out of order in list :(
05:15<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html
05:15<andythenorth>as is Steel Finishing Plant / Metal Fabrication Plant
05:18<andythenorth>sorted()
05:18<andythenorth>literally :P
05:19<@Alberth>:)
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05:47<Wolf01>o/
05:56<andythenorth>ok
05:56*andythenorth will make a 3.0.0-alpha-1
05:56<Wolf01>https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a7r4M8x_700b.jpg and yes, I feel really bad to link this one XD
05:58<andythenorth>:P
05:59<@Alberth>o/
06:00<andythenorth>errr
06:00<andythenorth>Bananas has no 1.7.0 option yet for min. OpenTTD :P
06:04<andythenorth>hmm
06:04<andythenorth>Bananas rejects firs .tar
06:04<andythenorth>doesn’t allow .dotall files
06:05*andythenorth mangles an archive
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06:36<@Alberth>not designed to distribute sources :)
06:42*andythenorth will have to fix that some time :P
06:42<Wolf01>Put the sources online and write the link on the readme?
06:43<andythenorth>need to fix the makefile so they’re not included I guess
06:43<andythenorth>something like that
06:50*andythenorth bbl
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08:53<@Alberth>o/
08:53<Wolf01>Quak
08:53<frosch123>hoi
08:54<frosch123>anyone else notices that we forgot to release 1.7.1?
08:54<Wolf01>Uh.. yeah has been RC1 for a while
09:01<frosch123>"thank you for developing this almost dead game" <- lol
09:01<Wolf01>XD
09:02<Wolf01>Wrong, we already said it is dead XD
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09:36<frosch123>in response to an email i rewrote the section "contributing to the project" on the wiki last night: https://wiki.openttd.org/FAQ_development#Contributing_to_the_project
09:36<frosch123>anyone wants to check?
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10:04<supermop_home>if I want to disable smoke for one segment of an articulated vehicle, do I have to use the effect_spawn?
10:09<@Alberth>should it also mention maintenance of AIs/scripts? perhaps a bit tricky as there is often no author available any more
10:12<supermop_home>or can I just have a switch that returns visual_effect_none for each part after 0
10:14<frosch123>supermop_home: the latter
10:14<@planetmaker>o/
10:14<supermop_home>ok that sounds easier
10:15<@planetmaker>frosch123, nice write-up on "how to contribute"
10:15<@planetmaker>"Contributing to the main game" and " How can I obtain the source code?" seem a bit duplicate, though
10:15<frosch123>Alberth: usually people start new projects. same for newgrf. just for basesets that approach does not really work imho
10:18<@Alberth>fair enough
10:18<Wolf01>I would add "And there is Wolf01, don't be like Wolf01"
10:19<frosch123>Wolf01: did i tell you that there was yet another mail asknig about ships?
10:20<Wolf01>Aahah
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10:48<supermop_home>hey frosch123, when I had my tram without the is tram flag set, how did it know to only run on ELRD
10:48<supermop_home>if it had tramtype set to ELRL?
10:48<supermop_home>like how does the game decide that ELRD is similar to ELRL
10:49<Wolf01>They have a catenary flag
10:50<supermop_home>does that mean that for dual mode bus, instead of testing for a big list of known electric road types, I could test instead for 'is there catenary'
10:50<frosch123>supermop_home: the tramtype property does not know about ELRL or ELRD, it only knows 0,1,2,3
10:50<supermop_home>hmm
10:50<frosch123>apparently ELRL and ELRD were at the same position in your roadtype/tramtype tables
10:51<supermop_home>oh
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10:55<supermop_home>can I use position in consist and position in articulated veh interchangeably?
10:56<supermop_home>ive been using _in_consist for articulated RVs and it seems to work fine
10:56<frosch123>for rv it's the same
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11:01<@Alberth>o/ andy
11:02<andythenorth>hi
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11:15<Wolf01>o/
11:17<LordAro>peter1138: i was gonna show off the route i did today, but jesus christ what you did
11:21<peter1138>charidee
11:21<andythenorth>new CHIPS
11:21<andythenorth>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1187757#p1187757
11:21<andythenorth>such nml stations
11:22<supermop_home>NML STATIONS?
11:22<andythenorth>are not a thing
11:22<andythenorth>sadlty
11:22<supermop_home>:(
11:26*andythenorth would like feedback on the new FIRS map colours
11:26<andythenorth>the alpha is in Bananas now
11:28<frosch123>did you preassign any?
11:29<supermop_home>andythenorth ill test after next compile of my rvs
11:34<LordAro>w
11:34<LordAro>thank you phone
11:40<andythenorth>frosch123: no haven’t set assigned any yet
11:40<andythenorth>not sure what direction I’d be taking
11:40<peter1138>LordAro, stupidly i did too much yesterday so i was a bit dead for the last 5 miles
11:40<andythenorth>all the old values and code is still in place, it’s one line to change
11:41*andythenorth did 7kms yesterday on a static bike :P
11:41<peter1138>"hey guys i'm doing 100km tomorrow, let's do 125km to warm up!"
11:41<LordAro>peter1138: "oh no" :p
11:42<LordAro>how awful for you :p
11:42<peter1138>ikr
11:42<LordAro>but srs, good job
11:42<LordAro>i need to work up to a century
11:43<peter1138>i've only done two
11:43<andythenorth>wonder if I could do 100km on a static bike
11:43<andythenorth>how long does it take you to do it IRL?
11:43<andythenorth>4 hours?
11:43<andythenorth>3?
11:44<peter1138>though i did 100 miles in a day recently when i did an 80 mile road ride and 20-odd miles on the MTB in the evening
11:45<peter1138>3:25 moving time today
11:46<peter1138>very much flat out though
11:46<andythenorth>no rests?
11:46<peter1138>nope
11:46*andythenorth might try for some high score on the static bike
11:47<andythenorth>boredom kills me though
11:47<peter1138>just stopping for traffic and a bicycle race at one point
11:47<andythenorth>and it’s nothing like a real bike :P
11:47<andythenorth>the saddle is designed for ‘comfort'
11:47<peter1138>yeah i can't last 10 minutes on the static bike, too boring.
11:47<andythenorth>so it’s completely uncomfortable
11:47<peter1138>heh
11:47<peter1138>my static bike is a recumbent which just means it has a stupid seat instead of a saddle
11:48<andythenorth>interesting
11:48<andythenorth>can it handle a laptop? :P
11:48<peter1138>not without attaching a suitable surface to it
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12:36<andythenorth>it’s all BR Trains eh? :)
12:36*andythenorth can scrap Iron Horse
12:37<Snail>hey andythenorth
12:37<Snail>I’m doing some translations of your new industries
12:37<Snail>peatlands = the mine where peat is produced?
12:37<andythenorth>yes
12:38<andythenorth>peat bog, peat mire
12:38<andythenorth>dunno what the french is, but they have them in quebec etc
12:38<Snail>right…
12:38<Snail>I’ll do some research (I’m not that technical either :p )
12:39<Snail>all this cargoes are available in Temperate, with the right industry type, I presume?
12:39<andythenorth>cargos are available in all climates
12:39<Snail>ok
12:45<andythenorth>Snail: http://tourbehorticole.com/organismes-de-la-tourbe/association-des-producteurs-de-tourbe-du-quebec/
12:47<Snail>yes… that’s how I’d translate it
12:47<Snail>tourbe
12:47<Snail>“peatlands” would be “toubière"
12:48<Snail>“boneyard” = ?
12:48<Snail>what’s that? a graveyard? :D
12:52<andythenorth>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_boneyard
12:54<Snail>ok
12:56<andythenorth>http://www.rustyrail.com/Catboneyard%20(2).JPG
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13:13<Snail>“STR_CARGO_SUBTYPE_DISPLAY_SECONDARY_CARGO_REQUIRED” is empty?
13:14<andythenorth>might be rubbish, will look
13:14<andythenorth>hmm
13:15<andythenorth>intentionally empty, but that’s confusing to translators
13:16<andythenorth>I’ll remove it
13:16<Snail>thanks
13:18<andythenorth>pushed
13:32<andythenorth>FIRS 3 Alpha non-event eh :P
13:33<andythenorth>supermop_home: it’s fun releasing grfs to silence :)
13:35<frosch123>team up with silversurfer
13:36<andythenorth>is that the cars guy?
13:36<frosch123>yes
13:36<frosch123>alternative you can pick the wolf route
13:36<frosch123>and announce that firs3 will block transport by ship
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27879 trunk/src/lang/polish.txt (2017-06-11 19:45:38 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>polish: 19 changes by lion
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14:32<Snail>andythenorth: you really like picturesque names for stations :p
14:47<andythenorth>apparently :P
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14:59*andythenorth needs ‘make bananas’ or something
15:01<frosch123>all cool projects have it
15:04<andythenorth>so bananas doesn’t like .dotall files
15:04<andythenorth>what else is banned? o_O
15:04*andythenorth has the source…somewhere :P
15:04<frosch123>what is .dotall?
15:04<frosch123>osx stuff?
15:07<andythenorth>the graphviz files :)
15:07<andythenorth>added by one frosch
15:10<frosch123>i think the warranty already passed
15:11<andythenorth>seems I might need to drop the docs for bananas
15:12<andythenorth>I need to change something here? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/Makefile#L59
15:13<andythenorth>maybe line 100
15:14<andythenorth>ach
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15:14<andythenorth>brain freeze :P
15:14<frosch123>where is the bananas target?
15:14<frosch123>iirc you can also tell musa which files to ignore
15:15<andythenorth>I don’t have a bananas target :)
15:15<andythenorth>yet
15:15<andythenorth>hmm, I could use musa
15:20*andythenorth makes a tar manually
15:50<supermop_home>andythenorth
15:50<supermop_home>been drinking bubbly rose
15:52<supermop_home>going to a George Clinton concert soon
15:56<supermop_home>what the hell is neo bulk
15:58<andythenorth>o_O
15:59<supermop_home>my covered hoppers support it whatever it is
15:59<supermop_home>say it on the list of classes and was like 'better safe than sorry'
16:02<andythenorth>it’s not here :) https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Cargos#CargoClasses_.2816.29
16:03<frosch123>it's an old name for non-pourable
16:03<andythenorth>such classes :P
16:03*andythenorth remembers that debate
16:04<andythenorth>some of the weights here look suspicious http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/code_reference.html#cargos
16:04<andythenorth>why is FMSP 0.5625 ?
16:04<frosch123>supermop_home: non-pourable/neo-bulk says "open wagon, but not hopper wagon"
16:05<andythenorth>unless you can tip the open wagon upside down
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16:13<supermop_home>oops sounds like exact opposite of a covered grain hopper
16:16<supermop_home>man how long have I been putting off drwing that arc furnace andy
16:17<andythenorth>long enough :)
16:18<andythenorth>you could amuse yourself with cargo icons :)
16:18<supermop_home>damn the br trains produce forum pages at a prodigious rate
16:19<frosch123>what is the forum page to sprite ratio?
16:20<supermop_home>well seeing as each BR class and car within class seems to get 15+ liveries
16:21<supermop_home>the sprites are quite numerous as well
16:21<frosch123>oh, that's new then
16:21<andythenorth>it’s impressive
16:21<andythenorth>5th time lucky :P
16:22<andythenorth>they are even supporting most FIRS cargos
16:22*andythenorth doesn’t have an army of foamers to draw sprites
16:22<andythenorth>so automated it
16:22<supermop_home>should really be 32bpp if trying to recreate all those post privatization brandings
16:23<supermop_home>blue as br blue doesn't look quite right to me
16:23<supermop_home>but then I never saw a br blue loco freshly painted, only faded
16:24<supermop_home>I think ttd lightblue+orange is the best match for br blue large logo in my minds eye
16:25<supermop_home>swallow et all have too many thin pinstripes to work with 1x 8bpp
16:25<andythenorth>I think an aversion to literal realism is the best solution :)
16:25<supermop_home>andythenorth give be a light blue 'uu 37' any day
16:25<andythenorth>tractors :P
16:25<andythenorth>new IH will be even less Brit realisms
16:26<supermop_home>a 'sh 25' will also work
16:26<andythenorth>supermop_home: http://class37basher.blogspot.co.uk/2010/07/syphonage-class-37-bashing-in-1980s.html
16:26<supermop_home>andythenorth going to live in the uk in 97 was a field day for me coming off 3 years of playing tto
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16:27<andythenorth>were there still proper trains in 97? :)
16:27<supermop_home>and finding out the sh 125 was a real thing we could ride to London for a long weekend
16:27<supermop_home>most GNER 43s were still in swallow in 97
16:28<supermop_home>158s to Manchester in regional railways - a treat
16:28<supermop_home>our branch was all yorks pacers
16:29<FLHerne>supermop_home: "Mainline" blue is closest IMO https://www.railexclusive.com/images/37798proto_900.jpg
16:29<supermop_home>half in regional railways, half in the passenger transport executive red ish
16:29<supermop_home>FLHerne ugh
16:29<supermop_home>needs more green
16:30<FLHerne>So does the OTTD sort? :P
16:30<supermop_home>https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=NSk5yMpF&id=13391B5826CBEC4993F4701E0303306637C334AA&thid=OIP.NSk5yMpFFy42ObddQgkM-gEsDL&q=large+logo+br&simid=608044745043214899&selectedIndex=2&ajaxhist=0
16:31<supermop_home>my secret shame - I use bing image search
16:31<FLHerne>But blue OTTD trains really are overly-blue blue https://bugs.openttd.org/task/1592/getfile/2150/Screenshot(1).png
16:31<supermop_home>nearby in ilkly they had these emus with a shitload of doors down the side
16:32<supermop_home>looked totally clapped out
16:32<supermop_home>ilkley
16:32<FLHerne>Oh, 309s?
16:32<supermop_home>likely
16:32<FLHerne>Those only lasted a couple of years up there afaik?
16:32<supermop_home>FLHerne 'light blue' approximates well
16:32<FLHerne>Sorry, not 309s anyway
16:33<supermop_home>I only lived in Yorkshire 2 years
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16:33<supermop_home>anyway, fancy nonetheless as Harrogate didn't even have wires
16:34<FLHerne>308s, I was only off by one :P
16:34<FLHerne>You can't have missed the 333s by much, they're a lot shinier https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/333002_A_Leeds.JPG
16:34<FLHerne>Whereas Harrogate still has Pacers :-(
16:35<FLHerne>My aunt lives there, have to go on them sometimes
16:35<supermop_home>FLHerne never saw a train that flash in yorks while i lived there
16:35<supermop_home>we took pacers into leeds on the weekend to hang out and get up to no good
16:35<supermop_home>pacers to York to see old stuff when relatives visiting
16:36<supermop_home>pacers to either to catch a train to kx when we couldn't make the 1tpd 125 set
16:37<supermop_home>only rode a 158 once seemed very lux
16:38<FLHerne>It's /supposed/ to get shiny refurbished 158s on every service with the new franchise
16:38<FLHerne>Not convinced
16:38<supermop_home>158s as a commuter train?
16:38<supermop_home>not enough doors...
16:39<FLHerne>Well, all the Pacers are going
16:39<supermop_home>anyway first summr there, I bought N scale 08, ic 225 set, and regional railways 158 set
16:39<FLHerne>Finally
16:39<FLHerne>150s are crap, and everything else has end doors too
16:40<supermop_home>the 158 blew my mind - my favorite train from tt, the dash diesel, in real life
16:40<supermop_home>andythenorth simon foster was a magician
16:41<supermop_home>to plant in my mind with so few px and idea, that I immediately knew it, at 12 without ever seeing before, in the flesh (steel?)
16:42<supermop_home>FLHerne never rode a 150 in my time in the uk
16:42<supermop_home>maybe in carlise
16:42<FLHerne>That seems odd, there are loads around Leeds now
16:43<FLHerne>I assumed they'd always been there :P
16:43<supermop_home>only had pacers bac then
16:43<supermop_home>158s ran to Manchester, everthing else was pacers
16:44<supermop_home>rarely rode a non pacer, non intercity train
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16:45<supermop_home>my stop was pannal, school in leeds,
16:47<supermop_home>hmm, I tried to make an easter egg whereby you get a different livery if you buy a truck in the trial period,
16:47<supermop_home>but now the buy menu shows the special livery all the time
16:48<andythenorth>you can probably check for that
16:48<andythenorth>but eh
16:48<andythenorth>TMWFTLB
16:48<supermop_home>the effect works in game as desired, just the surprise is ruined
16:56<supermop_home>this rv set is 16000 lines
16:56<supermop_home>is that a lot?
16:57<frosch123>nuts is 54k lines
16:57<frosch123>everyone else uses preprocessing
16:58<frosch123>which makes it difficult to compare
17:06*andythenorth has numbers
17:07<andythenorth>RH is 70k lines
17:07<frosch123>python or intermediate nml?
17:07<andythenorth>final nml
17:07<andythenorth>quite a lot of whitespace
17:08<andythenorth>hmm now my texteditor hates me :P
17:09*andythenorth tried to replace all whitespace on 70k lines
17:10<frosch123>use "grep -c . hog.nml"
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17:14<andythenorth>RH is 19k lines with all whitespace lines removed
17:15<frosch123>5/7 empty lines? :p
17:16<andythenorth>apparently :)
17:16<andythenorth>oh no that got rid of a bunch of other stuff
17:16<andythenorth>nvm
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17:16<andythenorth>is bed :)
17:16<frosch123>including himself
17:17<andythenorth>too much deleting :P
17:17<andythenorth>bye
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---Logclosed Mon Jun 12 00:00:30 2017