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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-06-13

---Logopened Tue Jun 13 00:00:31 2017
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05:48<Wolf01>o/
05:48<crem_>\o
06:16<FLHerne>/o\
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07:41<Wolf01>"what would happen if you put a computer in a fridge?" "the computer would turn off when you close the refrigerator door."
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08:29<peter1138>...
08:30<Wolf01>:D
08:30<__ln___>greetings not from germany
08:32<peter1138>crisps, 50g for 85p or 150g for £1
08:32<peter1138>no wonder i'm fat :(
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09:29<supermop_>"Phu Nhon Bar, Grill and Rooms"
09:30<supermop_>I would have said Bar and grill, tavern, hotel, etc
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10:10<supermop_>now testing new arctic basic
10:20<supermop_>i added exhaust pipes to my trucks
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11:10<@Alberth>o/
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11:19<@Alberth>o/
11:21<stefino>hello guys. I have a question about bridges. Have anybody know how to make different first/last part of the bridge? How to program it in nml? Base OTTD use only one sprite of this part but as I see total bridge replacement, there are used different initial sprites. thanks :)
11:24<FLHerne>stefino: You can't do bridges in NML, only in NFO
11:26<FLHerne>stefino: https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Bridges is the relevant spec, I think
11:29<@Alberth>I wonder how that was programmed in a baseset
11:29<stefino>mmm, that's bad answer for me :D I'm happy that I learn to use nml. NFO is horror for me :D
11:30<@Alberth>you can extend nml first :p
11:30<@Alberth>minor issue is then you first have to know how to do it in NFO :p
11:31<@Alberth>so it's not actually shorter or simpler, except for the very last bit
11:34<stefino>nml looks like user friendly :D
11:35<@Alberth>compared to NFO, almost anything is user-friendly :)
11:36<@Alberth>but indeed, it's easier to read and learn
11:47<stefino>yes...look like easy but for first look it is a lot of "random" numbers :D
11:49<@Alberth>ha, yes, specifying sprite position, size, and offsets are a lot of numbers :)
11:51<@Alberth>most authors use a standard template and standard positions in the image, so it reduces to just using the same template everywhere
11:51<stefino>Im going to try unpack TBRS and look how the code seems but this is for 8bit ? I know NFO only from old grfs where were 8bit sprites. But what about 32bit with extrazoom?
11:53<@Alberth>there should be additional real-sprites in NFO for that
11:54<stefino>it is more and more crazy :D
11:55<@Alberth>32bpp is just an addition to the existing format
11:55<@Alberth>can't drop anything, or a lot of existing grfs would break
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11:58<@Alberth>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/RealSprites#Info_version_32 indeed, here it is
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12:01<stefino>aah, thanks :)
12:14<stefino>can I combine nfo 7 and nfo 32? I dont think so but I only ask
12:17<@Alberth>sorry, no idea at all
12:18<stefino>I have an idea to put in existing code my 32bit graphics and in result it should show this graphics instead original 8bit
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12:18<@Alberth>"instead" is not an option, it's an addition
12:18<@Alberth>and it will show if your openttd displays 32 bpp sprites
12:19<stefino>yes I mean that if I have 32bit so it will display 32bit part of graphics instead 8bit
12:24<@Alberth>you can easily try if it works by adding a 32bpp real sprite, and see if grfcodec accepts it
12:24<@Alberth>sprite doesn't even have to display anything from the game
12:24<@Alberth>although if you eventually do want to have your sprites in-game, you'll have to make them anyway :)
12:27<stefino>yes yes...I'm trying it now
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13:08<@planetmaker>o/
13:11<@planetmaker>stefino, my advice would be: if you are into sprite / graphics making: make those sprites and show them. If you really want to make a house set: make a new one. Use existing 8bpp sprites if you want - but do yourself the favour and write in nml
13:11<@planetmaker>nfo has an incredibly steep learning curve :)
13:11<@planetmaker>there's also swedish houses which is a set written in nml
13:13<stefino>I'm making bridges atm :)
13:14<@planetmaker>aye :)
13:15<supermop_>oops: http://imgur.com/a/auDqN
13:15<@planetmaker>TBRS... yeah :) I read TTRS :P Too similar acronyms :)
13:15<supermop_>that truck is going to take a while to fill
13:16<stefino>I'm not good at program graphics. I'm happy that I can program vehicles, replacing graphics and eyecandy object in nml. But this program like bridges, factories etc...it is quite hard for me :D
13:17<stefino>I tried to add 32bit graphics into TBRS but mission failed :D encoding succesfully done but in game is still only 8bpp graphcs
13:17<@planetmaker>did you verify that your game is configured to show 32bpp graphics? Did you test with an existing 32bpp grf?
13:18<@planetmaker>you might have chosen the wrong blitter, for instance
13:18<stefino>yes cause I'm making 32bpp graphics :)
13:19<stefino>https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=198437
13:19<stefino>this is my work
13:19<@Alberth>o/ planetmaker
13:19<@planetmaker>oh! that looks awesome :)
13:19<@planetmaker>ok - so it's not that. Good :)
13:19<stefino>:D :)
13:20<@Alberth>hmm, wasn't there a special grfcodec flag seomthing?
13:20<stefino>a see that grf codec load only original png file - not my 32bpp
13:21<@planetmaker>oh, yes, bmp might not work
13:21<@planetmaker>depends a bit, I think... depends on what grfcodec was compiled with
13:21<stefino>maybe I have to write somethink more :-?
13:22<stefino>i'm using png and grfcodec put png too from decoding
13:22<@Alberth>no flag for 32bpp enabling in encoding, it seems
13:22<@planetmaker>yep, png is the default format. bmp is not supported everywhere, I think
13:22<@Alberth>it's a horrible format anyway :p
13:22<@planetmaker>^^
13:23<stefino>I only add syntaxe form ottd wiki
13:23<stefino>to
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13:23<@Alberth>o/
13:23<Wolf01>We need to make layered sprites for everything, specially to make shadows not overlap with other sprites
13:23<Wolf01>Quak
13:23<@planetmaker>stefino, one *can* make grfcodec work with bmp. But it depends on the setup where grfcodec was created
13:23<@planetmaker>but that's more trouble... so if you can use png: use that instead of bmp. :)
13:24<stefino>ok ok but I always use png and it was ok everytime
13:24<frosch123>hola
13:24<@planetmaker>png should always be ok, yes
13:24<@planetmaker>hola :)
13:27<stefino>I only add this syntaxe to realsprites what I wanna to change
13:27<@Alberth>you seem to need setting the NFO version near the top of the file
13:27<stefino> | sprites/58_x2_32.png 32bpp 0 0 256 128 -127 -46 zi2 chunked nocrop
13:27<@Alberth>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Version_numbers#NFO_version
13:28<stefino>yes it is possible cause set is in nfo7
13:28<stefino>and I use nfo32 to decoding
13:28<@planetmaker>that... should fail then, I guess
13:29<frosch123>the only difference between nfo7 and nfo32 is the syntax for the realsprites
13:29<@Alberth>decoding is from grf -> nfo text
13:30<stefino>this is what I wanna to do - I'm trying to add to nfo7 32 bit sprites
13:30<frosch123>why nfo7?
13:30<frosch123>who said you need to use nfo7 ?
13:30<@Alberth>grfcodec produces that
13:30<stefino>Alberth - yes, nfo text what I edit and graphics file
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13:31<Wolf01>o/
13:31<@Alberth>if you want a 32bpp image, you need to encode in nfo32
13:31<@Alberth>nfo7 doesn't have 32bpp images, afaik
13:31<@planetmaker>stefino, *if* you only want to have bridges in 32bpp w/o changing the bridges behaviour, you could get by simply replacing the real sprites... with NML. But if you anyway work in NFO for all your other stuff... dunno :)
13:31<stefino>frosh: I don't know to make my own nfo file so I'm trying to edit existing bridgeset
13:32<andythenorth>hi
13:32<stefino>hi
13:32<@Alberth>o/ andy
13:32<@planetmaker>\o
13:32<frosch123>my grfcodec outputs nfo32 when decoding
13:32<stefino>yes, but I have a problem, cause basic bridges has the same initial part
13:33<stefino>frosch: my grfcodec too - it writes // (Info version 32)
13:33<frosch123>what's the problem then?
13:33<frosch123>keep nfo32
13:34<stefino>planet: bridges has the same first and last part of the bridge. And I want to use different
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13:34<Wolf01>andythenorth, lego question, did you ever made an air pump with pistons instead of the spring pump? I have a little problem with the valve timing :/
13:35<andythenorth>never
13:35<stefino>problem is, that I decode grf, add realspirte syntaxe what define my 32 bpp sprites - encode back to grf and in game is still 8bpp graphics
13:35<@planetmaker>stefino, it's still different sprites. So you could still draw them different w/o modifying the creation-rules
13:35<andythenorth>Wolf01: regular pistons? Or the compressor cylinder?
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13:35<frosch123>stefino: then you missed the -g2 option when encoding
13:35<stefino>thats possible, I used only -e
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13:36<stefino>frosch...yeah..now it makes somethink more than before
13:37<Wolf01>andythenorth: I need a lot of air, like 4 hand pumps, I have 4 compressor cylinders but even with the motor they can't keep up, so I thought I could use the arocs big pistons and a valve to switch between compression and suction
13:37<@planetmaker>hm... that's something which totally slipped my mind :)
13:37<Wolf01>Or bring a real compressor to expositions...
13:38<andythenorth>real compressor
13:38<stefino>hmmm :D first problem solved...thanks a lot frosch :)
13:38<andythenorth>you won’t get a performant one with the cylinders, they’re high friction
13:39<+glx>no air tanks ?
13:39<Wolf01>Yeah, I noticed it
13:40<Wolf01>glx: yes, but I need constant flow, even with the air tank it will deflate...
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13:45<stefino>bridge in the game
13:45<stefino>https://s17.postimg.org/7wpizo8in/Havran_Pruhice_Transport_12._kv_2000.png
13:48<frosch123>Wolf01: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs386R2KVBA <- i think that has the reverse
13:49<Wolf01>:)
13:52<frosch123>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PbeunVAT5w <- same in small
13:52<frosch123>no idea whether it also operates with the reverse energy flow
14:04<Alkel_U3>stefino: great choice of lamp posts :-)
14:05<@planetmaker>nice :)
14:05<@planetmaker>stefino, is the grf somewhere available?
14:07<stefino>Alkel_U3: It is bridge for cities :D :)
14:09<Alkel_U3>stefino: I'm refering specificaly to their paint, the screenshot has quite a realistic feel with the Karosa next to them :-) (albeit too clean :P)
14:10<Alkel_U3>yr 2000 - must be some forgotten rural area with these :P
14:11<stefino>planet: still not. I can put it to web when I will finish it but my sets are really "my" I mean, that I have my own sizes of roads, railways, so I think that only my vehicles will be OK due right position on roads/rails. And I draw only 32bpp 4xzoom too
14:11<stefino>so if you swith on 8bpp, you will see nothing :D
14:14<stefino>Alkel_U3: all things in my sets has real templates :) thats my target - to make realistic look of ottd based on Czech Republic enviroment what will support firs economic
14:19<@planetmaker>do you really draw that or do you render it some way or another?
14:19<@planetmaker>how do you create the sprites? I'm curious
14:20<Alkel_U3>stefino: so, will you make 32bpp ČSD set? Also, that looks like a picture of Czechoslovak Socialist Republic (sans dirt on busses and holes in the road), that's what caught my eye :-)
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14:23<stefino>planet : I write draw but it is rendered :) I work in 3D software Rhinoceros and I use it in OTTD graphics too :) Have there templates with lights/shadows and after I make 3D model, I only render it to png with reflected background and put it to png sprite set :)
14:23<supermop_>ooh another rhino user finally
14:23-!-Exec is now known as Execthts
14:24<stefino>Alkel: yes my plan is to make complete base graphics + road, rail sets and try to redraw firs....work to next 20 years :D
14:24<stefino>and roads with holes...this isnt history, this is reality :D
14:25<stefino>after winter mainly
14:26<stefino>supermop_: yes, rhino is my best friend :D :)
14:27<Execthts>Will the Ubuntu 1404 binary work on 1704 too, or do I have to use the Debian/Generic binary?
14:27<supermop_>i use it mostly for work and for product design as a hobby, haven't made anything for ottd in rhino since 2015
14:27<frosch123>Execthts: try it, if it fails it will fail immediately on startup
14:28<supermop_>hmm so a couple trucks are broken, i wonder if i should post grf for more testing today, or wait until i fix those trucks
14:29<stefino>the same situation :) started to learn 11 years ago and use it for ottd for last year
14:30<stefino>do you have your sets on tt forum? I wanna to look at your work :)
14:30<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27880 /branches/1.7 (5 files in 3 dirs) (2017-06-13 20:30:37 +0200 )
14:30<@DorpsGek>[1.7] -Update: Documentation
14:31*Wolf01 -> pub (again)
14:32<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27881 /tags/1.7.1 (12 files in 4 dirs) (2017-06-13 20:32:06 +0200 )
14:32<@DorpsGek>-Release: 1.7.1
14:33<stefino>btw why were trafficlights only in nightly?
14:34<frosch123>you probably mean some patch
14:34<stefino>maybe? :D
14:34<stefino>yes, patch
14:36<frosch123>maybe you can convince supermop to draw traffic lights at road crossings in town zone 4
14:37<Execthts>this is the point where I give it up, the .deb file needs additional three dependencies which are not in the repos...
14:38<frosch123>that probably means you need the generic binary then :)
14:38<Alkel_U3>or use the playdeb repository
14:38<frosch123>i.e. the dependencies are not in the repository because they are ancient versions
14:39<stefino>frosch: I'm using thist patchpack due trafficlights but for example new FIRS needed to lastest version. So I only wanna to ask if there is a possibility to have trafficlight in base OTTD or it will be still only some kind of patch
14:39<frosch123>i have no idea what trafficlights does
14:40<frosch123>if it is only visual, you can do it with nrt
14:40<stefino>no
14:40<stefino>it works
14:40<stefino>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXmMKgznhEI
14:43<Execthts>uh
14:43<Execthts>why do I need libsdl for running dedicated?
14:43<frosch123>compile with ./configure --enable-dedicated
14:44<frosch123>then it does not need sdl
14:49<Execthts>What kind of liblzma does it need? Both liblzma5 and liblzma-dev were installed
14:56<Alkel_U3>stefino: traffic lights only hinder gameplay, there's no benefit to them. If they actually prevented collisions or jams at busy crossroads (implies change to RV behaviour would have to be made first), I think it might be in position to get to trunk. But as it is, it's mostly useless except for people who want to build a model city and I think patches like that don't make the cut. The best you
14:56<Alkel_U3>could do is have someone (or DIY) update the patch to current trunk. OR I think it was also in Spring Patchpack whose latest version is 3 months old and I think the patch was in there (not 100% sure)
15:02<@Alberth>Execthts: something like xz-libs-5.2.2-2.fc24.x86_64
15:04<@Alberth>name is likely different, depending on the linux flavor that you use
15:06<Execthts>"xz-utils is already the newest version (5.2.2-1.2)." great
15:07<Execthts>now what?
15:07<@planetmaker>hm... grfcodec fails to compile here locally :|
15:07<frosch123>new compiler?
15:08<frosch123>lordaro showed various ottd diffs, but no grfcodec diffs
15:08<frosch123>i guess noone cares :)
15:08<@planetmaker>probably newer than any CF uses
15:08<+glx>Execthts: and the dev package for xz ?
15:08<@planetmaker>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/peyla6hpk
15:08*LordAro appears, as if summoned
15:09<@planetmaker>gcc (GCC) 6.3.1 20161221 (Red Hat 6.3.1-1)
15:09<frosch123>planetmaker: i think we fixed those two years ago
15:10<@planetmaker>but... hg log -r.
15:10<@planetmaker>public [988:8513e253d1e3 default] 2015-05-09 12:55 +0200 frosch
15:10<@planetmaker> Added tag 6.0.5 for changeset c83b33fc5a10
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>2015 sounds very two-years-ago-y
15:12<@planetmaker>yeah
15:12<@planetmaker>hm
15:12<LordAro>date: Tue Jul 19 20:58:18 2016 +0200
15:12<frosch123>maybe someone forgot to push :p
15:12<@planetmaker>I probably need to update my pull path
15:12<LordAro>is my latest
15:12<LordAro>from ottdcoop
15:12*LordAro wonders how long grfcodec has required boost
15:12<frosch123>LordAro: nforenum
15:12<frosch123>it's dalestan stuff
15:12<@planetmaker>LordAro, since DaleStan time
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>looong ago
15:12<frosch123>it was fixed by removing some "using"
15:12<@planetmaker>and... frosch123 you are right :)
15:12<LordAro>rip
15:13<Execthts>glx:
15:13<frosch123>planetmaker: no, it's only 15 months ago
15:13<@planetmaker>it's fixed. long ago
15:13<Execthts>$ sudo apt list --installed | grep xz
15:13<Execthts>xz-utils/zesty,now 5.2.2-1.2 amd64 [installed]
15:13<Execthts>xzdec/zesty,now 5.2.2-1.2 amd64 [installed]
15:13<Execthts>Does it need anything else?
15:13<frosch123>well, 17
15:13<@planetmaker>ceil(15 month) = 2 years ;)
15:13<LordAro>but yeah, tons of warnings with gcc7.1, but no errors
15:13<LordAro>nyer
15:14<frosch123>Execthts: check for liblzma-dev
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>now someone fix my steam...
15:14<@planetmaker>WARNING: yacc table file version is out of date
15:14<@planetmaker>WARNING: yacc table file version is out of date
15:14<@planetmaker> ^^ what's the fix for this NML compilation warning? :D
15:14<Execthts>meanwhile I have the game running on its title screen on my desktop waiting for the server to be set up, and I heard a car/train crash :D
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like missing cache invalidation
15:14<Execthts>frosch123: "liblzma-dev is already the newest version (5.2.2-1.2)."
15:15<frosch123>it does not need to be new
15:15<frosch123>anything bigger than 5 is good
15:15<Execthts>Well, it's installed...
15:15<Eddi|zuHause>don't you nead libxz instead of liblzma?
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15:16<Execthts>yet on compile:
15:16<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: i forgot the difference
15:16<Execthts>checking zlib... not found
15:16<Execthts>checking liblzma... not found
15:16<Execthts>WARNING: lzma was not detected or disabled
15:17<+glx>maybe not installed in a usual place, you can tell configure where to find it
15:17<LordAro>libxz[-dev], likely
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>and zlib-dev
15:18<Execthts>No such package named 'libxz-dev", also on google it points to "liblzma-dev"
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>on some distributions, xz may be called lzma2
15:18<Alkel_U3>Execthts: did you try installing suggested packages from https://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_(GNU/)Linux_and_*BSD ?
15:19<@Alberth>there are several lzma versions
15:20<Execthts>libpng12-dev has no inst candidate, even better
15:21<@Alberth>planetmaker: WARNING: yacc table file version is out of date delete the table file that it generates? I once proposed to disable table file generation, but Yex0 was against it iirc
15:21<@planetmaker>:)
15:21<@planetmaker>any idea where I have to look for that?
15:22<@Alberth>directory where you run the program probably
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>or ~/.grfcodec?
15:23<@planetmaker>that yacc one is from nml building, not grfcodec :)
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>oh
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>got confused
15:23<@Alberth>self.parser = yacc.yacc(debug = False, module = self, write_tables = 0) <-- it's off in my version
15:24<@Alberth>nml/parser.py, line 36
15:25<@Alberth>parsetab.py <- table file, see also http://www.dabeaz.com/ply/ply.html#ply_nn49
15:25<@planetmaker>yes, here, too
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15:28<@Alberth>depending on the ply version, the file may move, apparently
15:28<@Alberth>alternatively, hack ply.py to print the path to the detected file :p
15:28<@planetmaker>hg purge on the nml repo doesn't cut it
15:29<@planetmaker>he :)
15:29<frosch123>Execthts: you can also try apt-get build-dep openttd
15:29<frosch123>planetmaker: it's not in nml
15:29<frosch123>it's in your grf folder
15:29<@planetmaker>I get that when make in nml folder builds the regression tests
15:29<Execthts>zlib1g-dev, liblzo2-dev, liblzma-dev are installed, yet the conf script still can't detect it
15:30<@Alberth>in the regression direcotry?
15:30<Execthts>frosch123: doesn't that install a boatload of graphical packages?
15:30<frosch123>ah, possibly, but maybe you can dry-run it
15:30<@Alberth>Execthts: linux flavor?
15:30<frosch123>and then pick a subset
15:30<@Alberth>oh, debian, I guess
15:30<Execthts>Alberth: Ubuntu server 1704
15:31<frosch123>planetmaker: i have ./test/parsetab.py
15:32<frosch123>but it looks like that is a local test folder :p
15:32<@planetmaker>hm... deleting everything and restoring a clean checkout removes that
15:33<@planetmaker>but a make clean didn't :) So something's not properly cleaned
15:33<@Alberth>parsetab files aren't cleaned afaik
15:33<frosch123>planetmaker: Alberth: also 2192:89c05fb08f8e Alberth <alberth@openttd.org> Thu May 29 20:46:21 2014 +0200Fix: Don't write parse tables. Closes #4091
15:34<frosch123>so, 3 years ago :p
15:34<@Alberth>either a very old nml, or a very old checkout :p
15:34<@planetmaker>hg purge didn't remove it either. That's what bothers me most :)
15:34<frosch123>are you sure you are running the right nml
15:35<frosch123>not some weird one from /usr
15:35<@Alberth>maybe it's ignored in some way?
15:35<@planetmaker>pretty sure. It's removed now
15:35<Execthts>oh come on
15:35<Execthts>pkg-config was missing
15:36<frosch123>you can not install that one?
15:36<@planetmaker>which nmlc
15:36<@planetmaker>/home/planetmaker/bin/nmlc
15:36<@planetmaker>planetmaker@aeolusmaximus:~/ottd/grfdev/nml$ ls -l /home/planetmaker/bin/nmlc
15:36<@planetmaker>lrwxrwxrwx. 1 planetmaker planetmaker 38 1. Feb 2014 /home/planetmaker/bin/nmlc -> /home/planetmaker/ottd/grfdev/nml/nmlc
15:36<@planetmaker>^^ and should always use my repo one :)
15:36<Execthts>conf'd now fine, compiling...
15:37<@planetmaker>installing nml and grfcodec always leads to trouble when you want to use dev versions, too ;)
15:38<@Alberth>it's a bit weird it still looks for the table file even if it never writes one, you can't suppress that check probably
15:39<@Alberth>I wonder if you can exploit that :p
15:40<@Alberth>I hope it uses something more secure than pickle, which it used to
15:42<Execthts>uh
15:42<Execthts>does the dedicated server need a graphics set too?
15:42<frosch123>it needs a minimal one
15:42<frosch123>like nogfx
15:43<frosch123>but i don't remember whether there was ever a release for nogfx
15:44<@Alberth>it contains more than images
15:44<Execthts>interesting, no_music and no_sound was already included, but no_graphics wasn't there
15:45<frosch123>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/798/nogfx-nogfx.tar <- put that into your baseset folder
15:45<Execthts>just done that
15:45<Execthts>Yay, the server's finally running
15:45<Execthts>thanks for the help
15:48<@planetmaker>hehe, Alberth ... probably it's not secure :)
15:49<@planetmaker>frosch123, Execthts there was usually an OpenGFX version with minimal set as use for servers. But never really advertized
15:50<@planetmaker>hm... and not pushed to bundles server either as it seems
15:52<frosch123>planetmaker: it doesn't really need updates :p
15:53<frosch123>i guess the attachment will be valid forever
15:53<@planetmaker>it doesn't indeed... openttd used to complain about missing sprites, though. But you 'fixed' that by falling back to openttd.grf
15:54<frosch123>did it also do that for dedicated servers?
15:54<@planetmaker>hm... *maybe* those essential sprites should be included there...
15:55<frosch123>that would break the original baseset
15:55<@planetmaker>not sure how thoroughly it checked for dedicated servers
15:55<@planetmaker>why would it break original set, if toplogy sprites were read from there?
15:55<@planetmaker>the height level ones?
15:55<frosch123>the mapgen sprites are the only reason why dedicated server insists on a baseset
15:56<@planetmaker>yes. And why can't they be read from the shipped openttd.grf?
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15:56<frosch123>you could also just disable the original mapgen if the sprites are not present
15:56<@planetmaker>sure
15:56<frosch123>planetmaker: because openttd.grf is loaded after the trgt1
15:56<@planetmaker>But why can't they be put in openttd.grf?
15:57<@planetmaker>does it matter?
15:57<@planetmaker>we can simply ignore those in trgt1 and read a new set of sprites from openttd.grf?
15:57<frosch123>well, it's work either way; i would disable the mapgen if the sprites are missing
15:58<frosch123>i am not sure whether replacing the mapgen sprites would even work via openttd.grf
15:58<@Alberth>lol, disable original mapgen because an extension is missing :)
15:59<@Alberth>you can also just delete the nogfx, and install a normal baseset, we won't ever have more than around 50 servers anyway
16:00<@planetmaker>it's not like normal base sets are a big waste of disk space nowadays
16:00<@Alberth>and disk-space is a non-issue
16:00<frosch123>Alberth: if people don't play, they want at least a server running
16:00<@planetmaker>^^
16:00<frosch123>@topic set 1 1.7.1
16:00-!-DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.7.1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: hg, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | Logs: @logs | #openttd.dev if this channel is really spammy
16:00<@planetmaker>(was meant for albert, but ... yeah... frosch is right, too)
16:00<frosch123>anyway, someone wants to announce the removal of the bulldozer tool?
16:01<@planetmaker>hu?
16:01<frosch123>it's too "negative"
16:01<frosch123>we want a positive community
16:01<@Alberth>haha, we remove one tool with each release? :p
16:01<Execthts>Will the ctrl-bulldozing be removed too?
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16:02<@planetmaker>it's not removal. It's "cleaning up the UI"
16:03<Execthts>huh
16:03<Alkel_U3>make a table of features; each release a feature gets disabled at random and everyone has to find out which
16:05<@Alberth>:o a poll!
16:06<Execthts>https://wiki.openttd.org/Electrified_railways: "Any electric train will stop and reverse on meeting one of these sections" -- didn't it just stop and had its status set to "No electricity!" before?
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16:07<frosch123>no, that only happens when changing grf in game or similar
16:08<frosch123>in pbs sections it may also wait indefinitely in fronf of the signal
16:08<frosch123>since there is no safe waiting position reachable
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16:47<ST2>well, now enjoying the time BTPro is on top here: http://www.openttd.org/en/servers
16:47<ST2>Thank you all for the release :)
16:48<frosch123>3 serves, 4 clients
16:48<frosch123>it has never been a better ratio, right?
16:48<ST2>not bad, eh xD
16:49<ST2>I'm spamming our players to update clients ^^
16:49<ST2>will improve soon (or not - some are lazy as hell xD)
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17:41<Rocangus>Hello! I'm having an issue updating 1.6.1 to 1.7.1 on a Ubuntu machine, that is Linux. I go into the directory where the source and resulting game files for 1.7.1 was put and run openttd -D because the machine has no gui, just command line. It still launches 1.6.1 and changes the version info of the openttd.cfg in the 1.7.1 directory to 1.6.1.
17:42<Rocangus>I did not run "make install" after "./configure". Might this be the cause of my troubles?
17:42<Rocangus>I only ran "make"
17:44<Rocangus>It was.
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17:57<+glx>try "./openttd -D"
18:00<Rocangus>I ran "./configure" and then "make install" in the new directory, and now it launches 1.7.1. However, a game script I tried moving into the new installation folder is not being recognized even though I put the .tar under "bin/scripts/", just like it was in the old version. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. Will try that one though and see if I don't get a new location I can place things in for them to work properly.
18:01<Rocangus>Bash does not find ./openttd.
18:01<FLHerne>Rocangus: ~/.openttd/game/ is probably a better place for those, will be found by all openttd versions
18:02<FLHerne>Rocangus: Depends on your working dir
18:02<FLHerne>Might be bin/openttd
18:03<Rocangus>I do not have ~/.openttd/game/ on the system, probably because I installed the game from source code which I compiled.
18:04<FLHerne>Create it, then...?
18:05<Rocangus>Do I now put the .tar for the game script under ~/.openttd/game/scripts/ perhaps, FLHerne ?
18:05<FLHerne>Rocangus: Please do actually read the readme, it's called the readme because you should read it http://uk.binaries.openttd.org/binaries/releases/1.7.1/readme.txt
18:05<FLHerne>Particularly 4.1.5
18:07<FLHerne>(yes, RTFM is still a thing on IRC :P)
18:09<FLHerne>Bleh, should have gone with "for a reason"
18:10<FLHerne>Alliterates, without being so repetitive
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19:02<ST2>oh crap, now it's BTPro spamming 1.7.1 servers here: http://www.openttd.org/en/servers
19:02<ST2>it kinda looks funny xD
19:17<Rocangus>It loads the game script, but it died because it couldn't find utils.superlib of version 38. I downloaded _all_ versions of the SuperLib GS library eventually after trying those I thought seemed to be v 40 and v38, restarted the game, and then it worked.
19:25<Execthts>thirty servers dafuq
19:32<Wolf01>'night
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22:00-!-orudge`` [~orudge@host86-157-1-77.range86-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
22:00-!-orudge`` is "orudge" on #thesinner #openttdcoop.devzone #openttdcoop.dev #bukkit #jontylog #tycoonexiles #z.aud #z.radio #locomotion #transportempire #openttdcoop #openttd #tycoon
22:39-!-glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye]
23:49-!-orudge`` [~orudge@host86-157-1-77.range86-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:50-!-orudge`` [~orudge@host86-157-1-77.range86-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
23:50-!-orudge`` is "orudge" on #thesinner #openttdcoop.devzone #openttdcoop.dev #bukkit #jontylog #tycoonexiles #z.aud #z.radio #locomotion #transportempire #openttdcoop #openttd #tycoon
---Logclosed Wed Jun 14 00:00:33 2017