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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-06-15

---Logopened Thu Jun 15 00:00:34 2017
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03:33<Wolf01>o/
03:34<crem_>\o
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03:35<frosch123>hoi
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08:51<supermop_home>is there any way to do math on a result of a switch?
08:52<supermop_home>when I have "(switch_capacity_rb_open*7)/10"
08:52<supermop_home>I get error that both operands must be intergers or floats
08:53<Wolf01>Yeah, because this http://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd&date=1489449600 might happen
08:53<supermop_home>is there a way to elsewhere take result of the switch and store it as a number?
08:58<@planetmaker>supermop, yes, there is a way. It's a complicated syntax but not really magic
08:59<@planetmaker>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pdibzubsj <-- see the [ ] in that example
08:59<@planetmaker>basically it means: use the temporary registers
09:00<@planetmaker>store the value of a calculation and load it again for re-using in another calculation
09:01<@planetmaker>that example is taken from ogfx-landscape http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-landscape/nightlies/LATEST/ogfx-landscape.nml has the full (pre-processed) code
09:01<supermop_home>is the temp storage anywhere in the grf or does it have to be part of the item?
09:02<@planetmaker>hm... though that's not exactly what you are asking... it's doing the calculation *in one switch*
09:02<@planetmaker>STORE_TEMP and LOAD_TEMP are grf primitives always available. I *think* they live as long as a single decision chain is done
09:03<@planetmaker>but always properly initialize the storage with a value you want before you read it - it might contain garbage :)
09:04<supermop_home>planetmaker ill ask more in 20 min, have to catch train
09:05<@planetmaker>it might be needed to do the calculation in one switch... I'm not sure anymore
09:05<@planetmaker>ok
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09:11<Eddi|zuHause>you can STORE_TEMP in an outer switch and LOAD_TEMP in an inner switch, but you cannot keep values over multiple callback runs
09:21<supermop>hmm
09:30<Eddi|zuHause>NFO also has a "function call" mechanism, where you use the return value of a switch in a calculation, but i think that was never implemented in NML
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>there is also sommthing like STORE_PERM, but only for specific features like industries, not trains
09:32<supermop>yeah
09:33<supermop>i used to set all capacities with (param_capacity*X/2)
09:33<supermop>where param defaults to 2, and x is the nominal capacity of that rv
09:33<supermop>but i kept missing certain instances when updating bunch of vehicles
09:34<supermop>so thought it would be easier to have a switch for each type of truck/trailer
09:35<supermop>with a switch that takes param_capacity*x and returns that as the default result
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that is pretty much the same thing i wanted to use the function call for
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>but then it was easier to modify my code generator than implement it in NML
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09:47<supermop>HMM
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09:58<frosch123>hoi
09:58<supermop>yo frosch123
09:59<Wolf01>Quak
10:02<frosch123>We should make ottd commercial
10:02<frosch123>just to annoy baldi
10:03<supermop>make inflation require an in-game purchase to enable
10:04<supermop>also a charge of 10 EUR each time user makes use of newgrf developer settings
10:06<frosch123>is it better to allow buying better trains with real money, or should you rather be able to sabotage opponents?
10:07<frosch123>maybe there should be an option for cross-server sabotage
10:07<frosch123>btpro vs reddit
10:07<supermop>like old tetris competitive, where lines you clear show up on opponents screen
10:10<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: i just wish i could have a list of values that i define based on parameter
10:12<supermop>i guess each RV could have a store_temp and load_temp, but that is worse than the original situation, as i still have some math at each vehicle to update
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10:13<frosch123>based on grf parameter?
10:14<supermop>yes
10:14<frosch123>you can assign arbitrary values to the options in grf parameter dropdowns
10:14<supermop>not quite what i want
10:14<@planetmaker>quak
10:14<supermop>lets say i have 3 types of trucks
10:14<@planetmaker>who is baldi?
10:14<frosch123>andys nightmare
10:15<supermop>flatbed, tank, and hopper
10:15<supermop>theory: baldi is andy
10:15<supermop>have they ever been seen in the same room?
10:15<@planetmaker>sounds like a popcorn-esk thing :D
10:15<frosch123>but salty popcorn
10:16<supermop>frosch123: i have a parameter to scale capacities
10:16<@planetmaker>yes... and why not have the user select via drop-down 1, 3 and 10?
10:16<@planetmaker>labeled tiny, intermediate and HUGE?
10:16<frosch123>like 50%, 100, 150?
10:16<supermop>but we have 3 different types of trucks, one carries 15 units, one carries 20, and one carries 25
10:16<supermop>planetmaker: i already do that
10:17<@planetmaker>capacity = base_capacity * factor
10:17<supermop>so currently param_capacity is either 1,2 or 3
10:17<supermop>and each vehicle takes (param_capacity*x)/2
10:18<supermop>where x is the capacity of that vehicle type
10:18<frosch123>capacity: return 10 + 5×param?
10:18<supermop>so 15, 20, or 25
10:18<supermop>but i dont have 3 trucks
10:18<supermop>i have 8 types of truck, and 6 generations of truck
10:18<supermop>plus semi trucks
10:19<supermop>plus diesel trucks, trolley trucks, and dual mode trucks
10:19<@planetmaker>sorry if it sounds dumb: what's the problem exactly?
10:19<supermop>so lets call that 288 trucks
10:19<@planetmaker>you want to scale the capacity both by generation and with the capacity parameter and the truck type?
10:20<supermop>which means there are 288 places where i need to find param_capacity*x/2
10:20<supermop>and check to make sure that x is set to the correct value for that type of truck
10:21<supermop>but every 3rd generation flatbed truck should have the same value of x
10:22<supermop>so i could make a switch: switch_capacity_rigid_flat_3 or something
10:23<supermop>that only has one possible return value
10:23<frosch123>sounds like you should learn either about preprocessors, or about local parameter assignment
10:24<supermop>what i'd like to do, is either take result of a swiitch like that and do math on it
10:24<supermop>or
10:24<@planetmaker>what do you mean in NML context with the latter, frosch123 ? store_temp?
10:25<supermop>store the result of the math done elsewhere into a value i can reference
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10:25<frosch123>abc = param+10;
10:26<frosch123>or did it use := ?
10:26<supermop>how do i set abc in nml?
10:26<@planetmaker>your first thought is correct syntax
10:26<@planetmaker>abc = param + 42
10:27<frosch123>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Parameter_assignment
10:28<supermop>because if i have to put store temp and load temp for each truck, then i have even more places to check and update than i did before
10:28<supermop>how many params can a grf have? i thought it was some low amount
10:28<frosch123>no idea whether you need to use the [ ] syntax
10:29<frosch123>or whether abc works
10:29<frosch123>64 or so
10:29<@planetmaker>you can define named variables which are no parameter
10:30<supermop>planetmaker: :O
10:30<@planetmaker>(exposed parameter)
10:30<frosch123>hmm, i think even 128
10:30<@planetmaker>127, I think. the other 128 or so are reserved for those internal variables used by NML or the user
10:32<frosch123>supermop: anyway, store/load_tmp are for dynamic values during callback evaluation
10:33<Eddi|zuHause><planetmaker> sorry if it sounds dumb: what's the problem exactly? <-- the problem is, you cannot have a switch that calculates "return base_capacity*param_capacity", you have to duplicate it for every base capacity.
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>and if you ever want to change the calculation, you have to modify every copy
10:33<frosch123>in your case the values do not change during the game
10:36<@planetmaker>yeah, I guess that hit it spot-on...
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11:28<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: do you think storing the values as more parameters is a good idea?
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11:31<supermop>hi Alberth
11:34<@Alberth>o/
11:58<supermop>any more mountain engineering?
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12:13<@Alberth>no
12:14<Wolf01>o/
12:34<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: i can't really decide that
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13:40<V453000>o/ :)
13:42<frosch123>Hoi, everything ready?
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13:44<andythenorth>o/
13:44<supermop>yo andy, does steeltown iron go on flatbeds, or only in ladles?
13:45<supermop>ingots? bars?
13:46<@Alberth>whatever vehicle you got, we've got loads to move!
13:46<andythenorth>pigs
13:47<crem_>https://stackoverflow.blog/2017/06/15/developers-use-spaces-make-money-use-tabs/
13:48<Wolf01>What?
13:48<andythenorth>so I change my editor, and I earn more?
13:49<andythenorth>oh I am not a developer :P
13:49<crem_>It's not causation. :)
13:49<Wolf01>Devlolopers win
13:56<andythenorth>err
13:56<andythenorth>anyone got Windows Mobile?
13:57<andythenorth>specifically “ideally the site works on Windows Phone"
14:01<@Alberth>those still exist?
14:02<andythenorth>requirement in a procurement tender
14:02<andythenorth>so apparently
14:05<V453000>of course not everything yet frosch123 but it's getting there ;P
14:05<Eddi|zuHause>dangit, i just wanted to post that link...
14:06<frosch123>it's true, at work i use spaces, in ottd i use tabs
14:10<Wolf01><andythenorth> anyone got Windows Mobile? -> me
14:10<andythenorth>is it Windows Phone? o_O
14:10<frosch123>anyway, the survey is questionable. According to my experience most people do not know about spaces and tabs
14:10<Eddi|zuHause>anyone know how to crosscompile for windows CE on ARM?
14:11<Wolf01><andythenorth> is it Windows Phone? o_O <- no, windows phone is dead, is windows mobile
14:12<andythenorth>ach
14:12<supermop>frosch123: my wife uses spaces and she makes much more than i do
14:12<andythenorth>tender says Windows Phone
14:12<andythenorth>that’s the way it goes
14:13<supermop>andythenorth: probably the guy writing the tender doesn't want to give up his phone
14:13<Wolf01>Maybe he meant "windows phone" which is "smartphones which feature windows mobile"
14:14<Eddi|zuHause>are we splitting hairs over something someone uninitiated probably used wrong anyway?
14:15<Wolf01>https://www.windowscentral.com/tech-terminology-check-windows-phone-windows-mobile :D
14:17<Wolf01>Also ginger ale abstinence is teasing me to go to the pub
14:17<Eddi|zuHause>doesn't sound very abstinent
14:18<Wolf01>I didn't drink it yet today
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, i went to the doctor today, and she said my dizziness might be something in the inner ear, and referred me to an ear doctor...
14:19<Wolf01>Did you try licking your elbow?
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think so :p
14:19<andythenorth>sometimes anti-sickness tablets stop dizziness
14:19*andythenorth is *not* a doctor
14:20<andythenorth>ach 41 questions, too many saying NOT DONE
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>she didn't want to try medication at this stage yet
14:21<andythenorth>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-40287817
14:21<supermop>Wolf01: i think you can buy cans or bottles to keep in your fridge
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: don't ever let anyone else tell you what a cloud looks like before you look at it yourself
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, beware of anvil-shaped clouds. the rest is irrelevant
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>(and by "irrelevant" i mean "the fun part")
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15:01<Wolf01|Phone>So, I'm here with a ginger ale on my hand...
15:03<Wolf01|Phone><supermop> Wolf01: i think you can buy cans or bottles to keep in your fridge <- better not, I'll drink it at litres
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16:22<Eddi|zuHause>so, i found a workaround for my steam issue with "STEAM_RUNTIME_PREFER_HOST_LIBRARIES=0"
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/4795
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17:00<peter1138>hi
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17:15<andythenorth>lo peter1138
17:31<supermop>andy is up late
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17:33<andythenorth>tenders don’t write themselves eh?
17:33<peter1138>lo bob
17:34<andythenorth>isn’t it
17:35<andythenorth>have we got a government yet?
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>do you need one? :p
17:43<supermop>what to mail vans refit to?
17:44<supermop>everything box trucks do?
17:44<supermop>is there a point?
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>i mean, belgium had no government for over 2 years in a row, and they were getting along fine...
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>... but, they also didn't initiate a brexit
17:45<ST2>conclusion: no government is the way to go!
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17:59<Montana>I agree. Spain had not government for 10 months and economical growth was impressive
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18:04<supermop>is cc_express used for anything?
18:05<supermop>i wonder if a parcel ages more in a regular truck or mail van
18:05<supermop>i think of mail vans as delivery vehicles
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: i think normal goods are cc_express
18:06<supermop>im struggling to think of a reason to use mail vans, since i allow mail to be carried in regular goods trucks
18:07<supermop>maybe it loads faster
18:07<supermop>but the capacity is low enough that it doesn't make a big difference
18:07<supermop>could make the truck weigh less
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18:09<supermop>i don't have any mail 'semis' so again it only is the smallest trucks affected
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18:24<Eddi|zuHause>i might consider making mail "denser", i.e. more capacity for the same vehicle length
18:24<Eddi|zuHause>also, valuables might go in a mail van
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---Logclosed Fri Jun 16 00:00:35 2017