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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-06-24

---Logopened Sat Jun 24 00:00:47 2017
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04:22<Wolf01>o/
04:27<Wolf01>https://xkcd.com/1854/ lol
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05:58<andythenorth>o/
05:58<Wolf01>o/
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06:26<@Alberth>o/
06:26<Wolf01>o/
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06:34<andythenorth>this readme is daft
06:34<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/readme.txt
06:34<andythenorth>what should I do about it?
06:34<andythenorth>FIRS has two disconnected sets of docs
06:35<Wolf01>KISS?
06:35<Wolf01>I think you are overdoing it
06:35<andythenorth>the readme is by other people
06:36<andythenorth>I don’t like to just delete their work
06:36<andythenorth>I wrote this version http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/get_started.html
06:37<andythenorth>move the readme contents into the ‘get started’ page?
06:37<andythenorth>or just delete most of it?
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06:40<Wolf01>The vehicle set support section is nice but I don't think it really belongs to the readme, maybe that one could be moved to the online docs and you can just keave there the first 3 sentences
06:40<Wolf01>*leave
06:40<andythenorth>I think the list of sets is misleading
06:40<andythenorth>it’s always out of date
06:41<Wolf01>That too, it requires maintenance
06:43<Wolf01>"you need a vehicle set that supports the FIRS cargos. Any vehicle set with proper Cargo Classes support should do that by default. The OpenTTD vehicles will not be able to transport all FIRS cargos." should be sufficient, let players figure out what they need... maybe a topic in the forum and some curators is a better idea
06:44<@Alberth>I'd support the idea of merging them
06:45<andythenorth>I think it’s the right choice
06:45<andythenorth>also…a smarter bananas could statically analyse vehicles
06:45<andythenorth>to determine which industry sets are supported :P
06:46<Wolf01>Lol
06:46<@Alberth>I like the vehicle list tbh, you could keep it, and start with a generic sentence like Wolf suggests, making the list more of an set of examples
06:46<@Alberth>the generic rule "none are compatible" is simpler
06:47<@Alberth>you could list the counter-examples, which is close to the empty set :)
06:47<@Alberth>and bananas doesn't activate multiple grfs in ones game :p
06:48<@Alberth>I do miss a few words about economies though, which exist, perhaps what they aim for, or recommendations how to start playing firs, or even how to play an economy
06:49<andythenorth>ok, noted
06:49<andythenorth>in the readme, or can I do that in the docs?
06:49<@Alberth>I'd merge everything into the html version
06:49<andythenorth>‘get started’ doesn’t mention them properly
06:49<andythenorth>it should
06:49<@Alberth>especially since you distribute that :)
06:49<andythenorth>I will rebuild the docs
06:50<andythenorth>I don’t distribute the docs any more, bananas refuses them :P
06:50<andythenorth>but they’re on bundles so eh
06:50<@Alberth>aw :(
06:50<andythenorth>I guess mostly people have a connection these days
06:51<andythenorth>vehicle compatibiltiy should be a wiki page
06:51<andythenorth>with someone like Kamnet
06:51<@Alberth>the readme is either minimal, pointing to docs, or full, as in, generated from html, or from the same source as html
06:51<andythenorth>minimal
06:51<andythenorth>https://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF_List
06:53<@Alberth>Ha, and then you thought you have everything :p https://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF_Sets
06:54<andythenorth>yup
06:54<@Alberth>could be duplicate-ish though
06:54<andythenorth>also this, w.r.t auto-detecting compatible vehicles https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/NewGRF_Configuration_in_Utopia
06:55<Wolf01>WTF, manga faces
06:57<@Alberth>you get a face when you open a company window for changing the savegame pre-fix, but that's the only time I ever see a face :)
06:59<Wolf01>Yeah, it should also automatically load your preset instead of manually clicking on the button :|
06:59<Wolf01>That always pissed me off
07:01<andythenorth>do I need the conflict Error Codes from the readme?
07:02<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/readme.txt
07:02<Wolf01>The online docs should have everything, leaving them in the readme might help for a fast reference
07:03<andythenorth>I wonder if they’re of any use at all?
07:03<andythenorth>they can go on the code reference page I guess
07:04<Wolf01>Also
07:04<Wolf01>Or you might explain better the error in the game and completely remove them from the readme
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07:06<@Alberth>code has a text explaining it afaik
07:07<@Alberth>you could move it to a harmless place like some comment in the code if it's not there already
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07:07<@Alberth>unless it has external use, but I'd say it's limited at best
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07:08<@Alberth>o/
07:08<@Alberth>we just split the channel to make room for new users :p
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07:09<andythenorth>E00, E01, E02, and E04 have lang strings
07:09<@Alberth>(13:07:51) Alberth: unless it has external use, but I'd say it's limited at best
07:09<andythenorth>E03 and W01 do not have lang strings, not sure if / where they are used
07:10<andythenorth>I can’t imagine anyone looking these up in the docs
07:10<@Alberth>that sounds likely
07:10<andythenorth>delete?
07:10<@Alberth>sure
07:10<@Alberth>it's useless technical babble :p
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07:11<andythenorth>maybe I should get an account on https://readthedocs.org/
07:12<@Alberth>devzone not working?
07:12<andythenorth>works great :)
07:12<andythenorth>but the world tends to commodity
07:12<andythenorth>someone else has solved docs better than I ever will
07:13<andythenorth>no slideshow though
07:13*andythenorth keeps own docs
07:13<@Alberth>no buttons to select things
07:13<@Alberth>no resizable flow charts
07:13<@Alberth>keep own docs sounds like a good thing :)
07:17<andythenorth>simpler readme http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/readme.txt
07:18<andythenorth>ha the repo version is really very wrong
07:18<andythenorth>docs say r5653
07:18<andythenorth>commit is 5707
07:18*andythenorth wonders why that is
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07:19<frosch123>hola
07:20<andythenorth>hi FR^2
07:20<andythenorth>autocomplete eh?
07:20<andythenorth>hi frosch123
07:24<andythenorth>Alberth: bin/hg-info - what’s the difference between REPO_REVISION and REPO_VERSION?
07:24<andythenorth>I am reading it, but can’t follow :)
07:26<@Alberth>/me looks
07:26<frosch123>5653 is today when using the days since 2000-01-01 version theme
07:26<frosch123>oh, wait ,it isn'T, it's today, but two years ago?
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07:28<@Alberth>--num-id --version <-- first is revision (ie a number), second is version description (like firs0.3)
07:29<@Alberth>firs doesn't use date, except through devzone afaik
07:30<frosch123>so, just coincidence?
07:30<@Alberth>although "version" may include a revision number too
07:31<@Alberth>not sure what happened with the number system; I have older firses with higher numbers, so something changed somewhen algo
07:31<@Alberth>*ago
07:31*andythenorth testing
07:31<andythenorth>devzone hg has totally different revisions
07:31<andythenorth>that’s odd
07:32<andythenorth>'odd'
07:32<@Alberth>how can that be, you have a clone of that, right?
07:32<andythenorth>my local build of 5707 gives me 5707 in the readme
07:32*andythenorth checks it’s not keyboard-chair error
07:33<andythenorth>nope
07:33<andythenorth>devzone gives 5653 for 5707 http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/readme.txt
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07:34<andythenorth>https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/firs/1806/console
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07:35<andythenorth>hash is cd08980bdc8722089dcff849bdb5328d0e32ab94
07:35<andythenorth>from bundles
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07:35*andythenorth totally confused
07:35<andythenorth>devzone hash is cd08980bdc87
07:36<@Alberth>hg log -r 5b5cd4d3e9bc8a9e5866f97870c748388a5cb398
07:36<@Alberth>changeset:   5706:5b5cd4d3e9bc
07:37<andythenorth>cd08980bdc8722089dcff849bdb5328d0e32ab94 is 5707
07:37<andythenorth>and jenkins tries to build cd08980bdc8722089dcff849bdb5328d0e32ab94
07:37<andythenorth>the content of the repor is correct
07:37<andythenorth>but the revision number is mangled
07:37<andythenorth>is the revision number not bound to the hash?
07:37<@Alberth>no
07:38<@Alberth>it's an incremental number local to a repo
07:38<andythenorth>ok so maybe bundles has a special repo
07:38<@Alberth>different repos have different incremental numbers, unless you explicitly keep them in sync
07:38<andythenorth>ho
07:38<@Alberth>which is what you expect to happen if you pull
07:38<Eddi|zuHause>revision numbers can mismatch if you have branches that were not pushed
07:39<andythenorth>that means using the revision numbers anywhere is a daft strategy
07:39<andythenorth>:)
07:39<andythenorth>should be using hashes
07:39*andythenorth is unsure how to fix this
07:40<Eddi|zuHause>hashes are not incremental
07:40<andythenorth>no
07:40<andythenorth>but there is no valid incremental revision number
07:40<@Alberth>this is what the dates since 2K are about, days are incremental
07:40<andythenorth>yes
07:40<andythenorth>but they tend to not be unique
07:40<andythenorth>multiple revisions on same day
07:41<@Alberth>wasn't a revision or so added as well?
07:41<andythenorth>not iirc
07:41<@Alberth>we did something with BB too in that direction, not sure what exactly
07:41<andythenorth>my objection was that they conflate with the hg revisions, at least for me
07:42<andythenorth>coincidentally FIRS got revisions very close to days since 2K
07:42<andythenorth>which was totally confusing
07:42<@Alberth>fair enough :)
07:42<Eddi|zuHause>well, you could try hours since 2010 :p
07:43<andythenorth>should I manually set the revision on every commit?
07:43<@Alberth>that'd be stupid, imho
07:43<andythenorth>could just update a Makefile property every time I commit
07:43<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds very stupid
07:44<andythenorth>there are any non-stupid ideas? :)
07:44<andythenorth>in projects using git, we just publish the hash
07:44*andythenorth has run across this before
07:44<Eddi|zuHause>well, you could make a commit hook, but you'd still have all the nonsense clutter in the repo
07:44<Eddi|zuHause>and it'll clash when someone else pushes to the repo
07:45<@Alberth>hash if you don't care about incremental versioning, or date-ish
07:45<andythenorth>I think it’s better to not care
07:45<@Alberth>with or without hash to make it unique
07:46<@Alberth>and you can go down to minutes or so, which is likely unique enough
07:46<@Alberth>seconds if you're paranoid
07:46<Eddi|zuHause>you run out of bits quickly, then
07:46<@Alberth>who said anything about bits?
07:47<@Alberth>201706241347
07:47<@Alberth>using GMT is better :p
07:47<Eddi|zuHause>that is fine for a string, but i thought we were talking about newgrf versioning
07:47<Eddi|zuHause>which is something like 16bit?
07:49<@Alberth>hmm, you'd need to do that manually, I think
07:51<@Alberth>you don't want a new version every second, so some tool to store and query the newest version?
07:51<@Alberth>tag could work
07:52<Eddi|zuHause>you don't want to tag every revision
07:52<Eddi|zuHause>also, in hg, tags are also revisions
07:54<andythenorth>remarkably hard problem eh :)
07:54<andythenorth>seems simple isn’t
07:54<andythenorth>dvcs with mutable history
07:54<andythenorth>numeric revisions can’t be trusted
07:55<Eddi|zuHause>i still think numeric revisions are fine, as long as the published versions all come from the same repo
07:55<Eddi|zuHause>you just can't compare your local revisions with the public ones
07:56<andythenorth>so it’s a configuration problem, rather than a computational problem?
07:57<andythenorth>we did clock synchronisation in my philosophy degree :P
07:57<andythenorth>as a non-solvable
07:58<andythenorth>so I need to delete some revisions, so I get to same number as bundles?
07:58<andythenorth>@calc 5707 - 5653
07:58<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 54
08:00<andythenorth>do ‘hg strip’ on commits 0-53?
08:02<Eddi|zuHause>easier to just delete your local repo and re-clone
08:02<andythenorth>but that wouldn’t work
08:03<andythenorth>I have same revisions as remote
08:03<andythenorth>bundles has some special provision
08:04<andythenorth>and bundles isn’t afaik maintained
08:05<@Alberth>bundles must be missing something
08:05<frosch123>date is fine for nightlies
08:06<Eddi|zuHause>but not for hotfix-releases
08:06<frosch123>yeah, not for andy :p
08:06<@Alberth>or for referring to a revision
08:07<@Alberth>have a sub-number?
08:07<@Alberth>N-th release today?
08:07<andythenorth>I think Eddi is right, it’s just a configuration problem
08:07<andythenorth>there is no rationale for bundles being out of sync with devzone
08:08<andythenorth>but I deliberately don’t have ssh access to either
08:08<andythenorth>and afaik, nobody maintains bundles now, since pm + Amml*r went away
08:12<frosch123>oh, bundles and devzone are out of sync?
08:12<frosch123>i guess that's then because of only cloning the default branch?
08:14<Eddi|zuHause>that is pretty much what i said, it's missing some branches
08:15<frosch123>i assumed it was just andy and devzone being out of sync
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08:16<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, he wasn't very clear about that
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08:36<andythenorth>I conflated devzone and bundles
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08:38<Eddi|zuHause>i suppose it's difficult to switch hg to count ancestors instead of commits?
08:39<Eddi|zuHause>that would solve the incrementality, but potentially cause larger jumps if you merge branches. and parallel branches may have the same number
08:40<frosch123>andythenorth: i create a new checkout on bundles
08:40<frosch123>they are in sync now
08:40<andythenorth>\o/
08:40<frosch123>something with the 0.3 branch
08:40<frosch123>which isn't even a head anymore
08:40<andythenorth>thanks
08:41<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, ancestors can be counted
08:41<@planetmaker>hello everyone :)
08:41<@planetmaker>(at least if my memory serves me well, then they can)
08:43<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: care to dig that up?
08:43<@planetmaker>looking right now
08:46<frosch123>hg log -f --template '{rev}\n' | wc :p
08:47<frosch123>or even "wc -l"
09:09*andythenorth bbl
09:09<andythenorth>cheers
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09:10<@planetmaker>hg log -r0::tip -T"{rev}: {latesttag}-r{changessincelatesttag}\n" is not exactly that
09:10<@planetmaker>I think the number of commits in a branch (consecutive commits sind r0) is not easily available. Indeed you'll need wc -l
09:11<@planetmaker>what's the actual problem you try to solve, Eddi|zuHause ?
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09:12<@planetmaker>devzone actually mostly builds tip on default branch... with other branches... it probably can get confused
09:12<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: andy needs a revision count that is consistent across different repos, and "number of days since 2000" doesn't work
09:12<@planetmaker>{latesttag}-r{changessincelatesttag} should be consistent
09:13<@planetmaker>maybe not r, but {latesttag}-build{changessincelatesttag}
09:15<@planetmaker>but... what means "accross different repos"? "days since 2000" is consistent, not?
09:17<@planetmaker>why isn't it consistent?
09:27<frosch123>planetmaker: it's consistent, but andy tends to push more than once per day :p
09:27<frosch123>currently firs uses local revision, which is not consistent
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10:23<supermop_home>good morning
10:24<frosch123>o/
10:26<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: "days since 2000" is monotonous, but not strictly monotonous, so when you have build on push, and push twice, you get two different builds with the same number
10:26<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: and local revision is not good, because you get the same build with two different numbers
10:27<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: but the tree structure is always the same, even if you remove some branches. so number of ancestors is better than either of these other variants
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10:28<frosch123>hoi
10:28<@Alberth>o/
10:29<Eddi|zuHause>so #ancestors+branch name should be unique enough to cause the least amount of confusion
10:34<@Alberth>is that something you can easily convert to a commit hash?
10:35<@Alberth>would work in git, I think, but in hg?
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>the commit already has a hash
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>that's not the problem
10:37<Eddi|zuHause>the branch name would be only in the filename/grf name/grf description, but you need the incremental numerical value to decide which one is newer
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>that information is used by openttd to show only the "newest" grf for selection, and to decide whether two builds are "compatible"
10:42<@Alberth>ah, right, you never use the number to get a commit. Smart idea
10:45<LordAro>revision counts are basically dead these days
10:45<LordAro>most software i've come across just uses latest.release.number.shorthash
10:45<LordAro>or similar
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: that still requires some central authority to issue the "release.number"
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: but we need something automatic
10:47<LordAro>true
10:47<LordAro>but things generally have stable releases, just use the last one of those?
10:48<LordAro>it's not monotonic though, of course
10:48<Eddi|zuHause>we're still talking about andy here... "stable" doesn't quite fit :p
10:48<LordAro>but :p
10:48<LordAro>s/but //
10:49<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: we want something that handles two (or more) consecutive test builds
10:49<Eddi|zuHause>it doesn't matter whether the last release was called 1.2 or 5.23
10:50<LordAro>mm
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10:51<supermop_home>do I need the developer setting on to get the sprite offset thing?
10:51<LordAro>what's wrong with just taking the latest (timewise) commit?
10:52<LordAro>no need for counting revisions
11:12<frosch123>supermop_home: yes
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: what do you mean?
11:24<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: the same commit may have different numbers on different checkouts, that is the problem
11:25<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, so yes... hg log -r. -T"{latesttag}-b{changessincelatesttag}\n" probably would give you a unique enough version
11:26<@planetmaker>and even tell you what possibly know version it might resemble most closely
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11:40<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: different numbers, sure, but the hash would be the same
11:40<LordAro>rather, why do you need a monotonic counter from the repo?
11:41<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: but the hash is useless, because you cannot sort by hash
11:41<LordAro>why do you need to sort?
11:41<LordAro>Alberth: gist related poke :]
11:41<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: to see at a glance which one is newer
11:41<LordAro>commits have timestamps attached to them
11:42<Eddi|zuHause>timestamps don't fit in 16 bits
11:42<LordAro>why 16 bits?
11:42<LordAro>i thought this was CI related?
11:43<Eddi|zuHause>because 10 years ago someone thought 16 bit ought to be enough for everyone?
11:43<Eddi|zuHause>what is CI?
11:43<LordAro>continuous integration
11:43<LordAro>but i mean build related
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>this is about OpenTTD's handling of newgrf versions
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11:44<Eddi|zuHause>action 14 has a 16-bit version number, and openttd uses this to only display the "newest" version, and whether two versions are "compatible"
11:45<LordAro>right, sure
11:45<Eddi|zuHause>historically, the common NewGRF Makefile used the revision number for that value
11:46<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, if it's about the NewGRF version reported to OpenTTD... does one really need several in a single day? :)
11:46<Eddi|zuHause>later, this was replaced by "days since 2000", because revision number was unreliable
11:46<LordAro>so you're wanting to automatically push an experimental(?) grf to bananas on build?
11:46<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: apparently, yes.
11:46<@planetmaker>outch. Ok. For *that* my suggestion doesn't work either... because you cannot squeeze the tag letters into the 16 bits.
11:47<@planetmaker>unless you age-sort the tags, too, and squeeze them in the... dunno... 8 bits? And then you're stucke when you're over 256 tags ;)
11:47<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: not necessarily as far as bananas, but if you keep builds around for longer on public space like openttdcoop devzone
11:47<@planetmaker>or... ok, 10 tag bits, and 6... for in between. Doesn't work either
11:48<LordAro>hrm
11:48<LordAro>days since 2000 concatenated with number of commits today?
11:48<LordAro>so far today*
11:48<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: specifically, Andy has build-on-push enabled, and sometimes does more than one push per day
11:49<@Alberth>not publish at bananas, but on devzone, yes
11:51<@planetmaker>lord aro's idea: days since 2000 and counting commits per day... that sounds feasible
11:51<@planetmaker>hm...
11:51<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: well, maybe each tag could get a specific number that is added to the commits-since-last-tag
11:52<LordAro>that said, it's ultimately not any different to counting the number of commits
11:52<frosch123>number of commits in branch sounds more reasonable to me then
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: you only have to adjust that table each time you add a tag
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>which could be done by a commit hook
11:54<Eddi|zuHause>so, if you store for each tag the number of commits in the chain to the root, then tag-value+commits-since-tag would be the value that i proposed in the first place
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12:10<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, you can easily assign a value to the tag by sorting them by age. That's unique and doesn't need storage. And the commits since the tag is also unique. But(!) you can then still have two commits which get an identical value: commit a tag. And then have from there branch into two equally long heads
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>yes
12:11<@planetmaker>which was actually why I didn't choose this method in the first place, iirc: it doesn't ensure uniqueness - and is in some way less intuitive than days-since-2000
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>now there's two separate problems in there
12:12<Eddi|zuHause>one is, before you commit a tag, and after you commit a tag, these numbers should also be incremental
12:12<Eddi|zuHause>the other one is, if you do two branches
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>how big the branches problem is is really dependent on how much you actually use branches
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>the tag problem is why i suggested storing the number that that tag would have relative to the previous tag
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>say, you make 100 commits, tag that as 1.0, then the next commit should have the number 101 (value of tag 1.0 + 1 commit since tag)
12:15<Eddi|zuHause>something along these lines
12:26<@Alberth>allocate a block of grfids as "experimental for everybody", and assign numbers from that block?
12:26<@Alberth>add bit "this grf is not compatible with any other grf with the same id ?
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds terrible
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12:27<@Alberth>you want an upgrade path from experimental stuff?
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>how would you test whether your test build is compatible with your previous test build?
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>or with your previous release?
12:28<@Alberth>why would it need to be compatible with other test-builds?
12:28<@Alberth>previous release, ok, don't use that bit
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>why would you deliberately destroy compatibility?
12:29<@Alberth>we seem to be running into problems with the number of allocatable numbers, this is one way to make room
12:29<@Alberth>s/number/amount/
12:29<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think that is a solution for any problem that we're trying to solve
12:30<@Alberth>if two grfs are not compatible with anything, their order is non-relevant
12:30<@Alberth>as long as we can point out which one it is, which you can do in text in the grf
12:30<Eddi|zuHause>this is the "i solve all problem of humanity by killing all humans" solution
12:31<@Alberth>no, I leave all releases alone
12:31<Eddi|zuHause>statistically, there aren't all that many releases
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12:31<Eddi|zuHause>every interesting thing happens with non-releases
12:32<@Alberth>sure, but you don't need an upgrade path there, imho
12:32<Eddi|zuHause>i disagree
12:33<@Alberth>ok, fair enough
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>sometimes youtube is a bit strange... it suggests me minecraft videos that are 5 seconds long and have 6 views?
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>by a channel that has 4 subscribers
12:58<frosch123>well, as long as you are one of them
12:58<Eddi|zuHause>nope
13:00<Eddi|zuHause>well, maybe if you round the 5 seconds to 6 seconds (youtube is a bit weird with that), and consider that it was uploaded 6 hours ago... that makes it 666?
13:06<@Alberth>you have seen too many videos, so it's desperately trying to give you something new :p
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13:21<andythenorth>o/
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13:28<andythenorth>hmm http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/readme.txt
13:28<@Alberth>o/
13:28<andythenorth>hi
13:28*andythenorth reading logs
13:29<@Alberth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs wrong url, isn't it?
13:29<@Alberth>ie, it's not LATEST very long :p
13:31<andythenorth>tags are quite infrequent :)
13:31<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/
13:31<andythenorth>the logs didn’t seem to conclude anything, unless I missed it?
13:32<@Alberth>hmm, also, ../release/.., tricky
13:32<andythenorth>all I can see is ‘this is hard’
13:32<@Alberth>yep
13:33<@Alberth>I haven't follow the discussion entirely, but I didn't see any conclusion or agreement
13:33<andythenorth>nah
13:33<andythenorth>might be easiest to leave it ‘as is'
13:34<andythenorth>just means bundles will produce ‘broken’ grfs
13:34<@Alberth>depending on how you look at it :p
13:34<@Alberth>it uses commit count at default
13:35<@Alberth>your repo just uses different numbers
13:35<@Alberth>so add a hash somewhere you can find it :)
13:38<andythenorth>the min. compatible version in action 14 will be quite broken :)
13:38<andythenorth>broken savegames
13:38<andythenorth>but does *anyone* ever get it from bundles?
13:39<@Alberth>I do :)
13:41<@Alberth>but I never upgrade firs in a running game
13:41<andythenorth>I wonder if I could just omit the action 14 check
13:41<andythenorth>as it’s not going to be useful
13:42<@Alberth>despite disagreement from Eddi, I still think making experimental grfs incompatible with any other version is fine
13:43<andythenorth>docs suggest that 'version' should be used https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action14#GRF_version_.28.22INFO.22_-.3E_.22VRSN.22.29
13:43<andythenorth>which is a shame
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13:45<@Alberth>that \d is a 16 bit numbers?
13:46<@Alberth>why can't it be something bigger, say a full time-stamp
13:49<andythenorth>historical reasons, I assume :)
13:49<andythenorth>also the time stamp is no solution
13:49<andythenorth>because that’s not stable
13:49<andythenorth>I am 99% certain this is non-solvable, at least without serious complication
13:50<andythenorth>oh does hg have the timestamp as well as the hash?
13:50*andythenorth overlooking that
13:50<frosch123>well, for now bundles is in sync again
13:50<andythenorth>unfortunately not :| http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/readme.txt
13:51<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository
13:51<frosch123>oh...
13:52<andythenorth>my words too :)
13:52<frosch123>oi, it does a complete checkout every time
13:52<frosch123>so i need to change something in the build script
13:53<andythenorth>are the build scripts version-controlled?
13:54<andythenorth>I can’t find them in devzone
13:54<@Alberth>even git has time-stamps :p
13:54<frosch123>andythenorth: some are, but not every project uses the same
13:54<andythenorth>I usually just look that up from the hash Alberth :P
13:54<andythenorth>not usually trying to determine compatibility based on the rev :P
14:01<frosch123>firs config was different from other projects
14:01<frosch123>trying again
14:01<andythenorth>firs always has to be special eh :P
14:02<frosch123>it's old
14:02<frosch123>the "template" is named "eints-test" :p
14:02<frosch123>so, likely only projects newer than eints are somewhat similar
14:02<andythenorth>:)
14:03<frosch123>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/readme.txt <- better?
14:04<@planetmaker>the build scripts are version controlled, yes. Either in the firs repo. Or in the devzone repo
14:05<frosch123>planetmaker: the issue here is that jenkins only cloned the branch which were to be compiled
14:05<@planetmaker>the devzone has a separate repo... called 'misc' in the hg.o.o instance
14:05<frosch123>i "fixed" that by pulling manuially in ther working dir
14:05<frosch123>but firs was configured to delete the working dir every time
14:05<@planetmaker>aye, I think it does that, yes. I think the reason is that cloning everything with zbase was a bad idea
14:06<frosch123>anyway, the build scripts actually do not affect the clone
14:06<@planetmaker>or rather slug or whatever v's things were called
14:06<@planetmaker>brix
14:06<frosch123>https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/firs/1808/console <- there are two "hg pull" in there
14:06<@planetmaker>yes... the portion which is cloned is not controlled by the build scripts
14:06<frosch123>the first one from jenkins, the second one from jenkins_build
14:07<frosch123>the jenkins one has "--rev default"
14:07<frosch123>the second one won't fix local revision numbers
14:07<@planetmaker>two... is odd
14:07<@planetmaker>probably your guess as to the reasons is right... not sure
14:07<@planetmaker>but very likely
14:08<andythenorth>frosch123: accurate now ;)
14:08<frosch123>andythenorth: it's no definite fix
14:08<frosch123>it will break again if someone reinstalls devzone or something
14:08<andythenorth>yes
14:08<frosch123>but likely lasts a few years :p
14:08<@planetmaker>what did you do to fix it?
14:08*andythenorth wonders
14:09<andythenorth>script to check hash and rev number against devzone repo?
14:09<andythenorth>devzone is legitimate to consider canonical origin
14:09<andythenorth>fail jenkins if bundles and devzone diverge?
14:09<frosch123>planetmaker: i disabled jenkins deleteing the working dir (which was enabled for firs, but not in the template), and then made a manual clone in the working dir
14:09<@planetmaker>ah!
14:10<frosch123>so now it works until someone deletes the working dir again, or until andy makes a branch
14:10<@planetmaker>I guess... that was done due to some previous FIRS build issues...
14:10<@planetmaker>always doing its special things
14:10<frosch123>the build script contains a purge, so it should be fine
14:10<@planetmaker>you would think, yes
14:11<@planetmaker>but I've seen that leave traces behind, still
14:12<@planetmaker>does it use purge --all -dirs ?
14:14<frosch123>"hg purge --all" unless there is some magic .cache dir in .devzone
14:14<frosch123>please adjust jenkins_build.sh if that is not good enough :)
14:15<frosch123>according to docs "--dirs" would be wrong
14:15<frosch123>since that would *only* delete directories
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16:33<andythenorth>blah blah http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/get_started.html
16:33<andythenorth>I don’t like all this ‘my first newgrf’ crap :P
16:33<andythenorth>Wolf01: ^^
16:34<andythenorth>I look at that page, and I’m thinking ‘wtf is FIRS'
16:34*Wolf01 reads
16:34<andythenorth>also ‘why 80 industries'
16:34<andythenorth>stupid ammount
16:35<Wolf01>1. Switch point 1 with the "get started"
16:36<Wolf01>Also... get started...
16:36<andythenorth>“New to newgrfs?” “How did you find FIRS docs then?"
16:36<andythenorth>:P
16:36<Wolf01>Yeah
16:36<andythenorth>it’s only linked via forums, and via in-game content
16:37<Wolf01>I would make the point 7 as FIRS presentation
16:37<andythenorth>agreed
16:37<andythenorth>glad you said that
16:40<andythenorth>ach conflict detection, it’s so boring
16:41<andythenorth>here’s what’s incompatible http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/incompatible_grfs.py#L35
16:54<andythenorth>added them to the html docs http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/code_reference.html#incompatible-grfs
16:55<andythenorth>and found a bug :P
17:02*andythenorth must to bed
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17:52<Wolf01>Shit... I think I failed the lazy bastard objective :(
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18:51<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Sun Jun 25 00:00:48 2017