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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-07-02

---Logopened Sun Jul 02 00:00:54 2017
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02:47<andythenorth>moin
02:47<@Alberth>o/
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02:53<andythenorth>the final 10% of FIRS 3
02:53<andythenorth>90% of the effort :P
03:01<@Alberth>:)
03:01<@Alberth>it's not so much that it's a lot of work, but more the idea that it's still not done, I hope
03:06<andythenorth>also, the bits I don’t want to do get left until the end
03:15<@Alberth>yep, logical behavior, but perhaps sub-optimal :)
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04:35<Wolf01>o/
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07:28<Wolf01>o/
07:31<@Alberth>o/
07:51<NGC3982>\o
07:56<LordAro>\o
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08:05<Flygon>\o/
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09:32<frosch123>moi
09:39<frosch123>whenever i get a new os, it takes some days to get used to new fonts
09:58<@Alberth>o/
10:04<Wolf01>Quak
10:05<frosch123>i also got more vram, so i can play f as it is intended now
10:05<frosch123>doesn't results in more copper though
10:13<@Alberth>only more shiny copper :p
10:15<LordAro>construct additional pylons
10:15<frosch123>i only build overlords
10:23<frosch123>i actually wore a sc shirt at the f party, but noone seemed to have recognised it
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11:14<andythenorth>quak
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11:37<Speedy>enet
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13:13<trainman1432>gah
13:14<trainman1432>can't sleep
13:14<trainman1432>so
13:14<trainman1432>here I am
13:22<andythenorth>such absence of FIRS 3 feedback :)
13:23<andythenorth>OpenTTD is dying
13:23<frosch123>i saw the icons in the logs
13:23<andythenorth>needs some pixels
13:26<andythenorth>frosch123: the map colours…the clash with height levels might be worth scripting out
13:27<andythenorth>or I could do it manually
13:27<frosch123>huh?
13:27<frosch123>didn't we already do that? :p
13:27<andythenorth>Alberth thought not
13:27<frosch123>http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/texts/industrymap_green_darkgreen_violet.html
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13:27<frosch123>many colours, no light green, no dark green, no violet
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13:28<frosch123>the first greenish colour is at position 37
13:32*andythenorth testing
13:33<andythenorth>I can’t find any greens that directly match map height colours
13:53<@Alberth>some are quite close
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13:54<@Alberth>oh, blue water colour too
13:54<frosch123>yes, blue water is intentioanlly not excluded
13:54<frosch123>it's fine for land industries
13:54<frosch123>one probably should use green for water industires :)
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14:01<trainman1432>ugh
14:01<trainman1432>Is it healthy to not sleep for one night?
14:01<trainman1432>well I mean is it gonna harm you a lot
14:01<trainman1432>Im looking thro this and I actually don't feel well
14:02<andythenorth>trainman1432: you’ll _probably_ live
14:02<andythenorth>nothing is certain of course :)
14:02<andythenorth>but I have worked 36 hours straight without sleep, twice
14:02<andythenorth>and I am here
14:03<trainman1432>well hm
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14:04<trainman1432>I hope I dont at least get sick
14:04<frosch123>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_deprivation
14:04<frosch123>apparently the record is at 265 hours awake
14:04<frosch123>i would not recommend that
14:06<@Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/minimap.png http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/minimap2.png in the second, is the white circled blue water or industry?
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14:15*LordAro pokes Alberth & frosch123 about his patch
14:16<andythenorth>I am unsure what to do about map colours
14:16<andythenorth>easiest is to allow the current assignment (automatically, by industry ID)
14:16<andythenorth>next option is to manually assign some colours, and auto-assign the rest
14:16<andythenorth>one problem is economies
14:17<frosch123>i would put them into groups manually
14:17<frosch123>water, land, harbor
14:17<@Alberth>persuade frosch to take out some more colours :p
14:17<andythenorth>the idea of maximising difference is a bit shot by economies
14:17<andythenorth>unless industry colours aren’t stable across economies
14:17<andythenorth>which is…possible, but weird
14:18<andythenorth>steeltown is mostly red-orange-yellow currently
14:18<andythenorth>I wondered about a primary sort on count of economies industry is used in
14:18<@Alberth>LordAro: yep, that crosses my mind too, every now and then
14:22<@Alberth>https://gist.github.com/LordAro/760063761dc46bacb0c37576c296361a still this one?
14:22<LordAro>aye
14:31<@Alberth>ok, busy now, but made a copy to my local machine, so I can find it easily, it's huge though
14:47<Wolf01>What about outline industries?
14:52<@Alberth>32bpp colours :p
14:58<LordAro>Alberth: indeed it is :>
14:58<LordAro>it's all fairly samey though
14:58<LordAro>largely find & replace
15:11<@Alberth>doesn't help in review, in fact, quite the opposite, it's more boring to review
15:13<LordAro>yeah
15:34<andythenorth>maybe I manually assign colours, in order, from the list
15:34<andythenorth>I like that there’s no rationale currently
15:34<andythenorth>i.e. coal mine doesn’t have to be black to match coal, etc
15:34<andythenorth>because that’s unsustainable :P
15:35<frosch123>i like your idea of sorting industry by number of economies
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>here's what i think you should do: you should partition the industries in sets that are never in the same economy, and then assign a colour to each set
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>the sorting by number of economies should help with that
15:38<Wolf01>I think I'll see the bed really early this evening
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>so a "greedy" algorithm would be: 1: sort by economies, 2: pick the most used industry, loop over the rest of the industries, and join with the first one that is not conflicting. 3: if you reach the end of the list, start a new set, and start over with the first industry that is not yet in a set
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15:41<Eddi|zuHause>should be like 5 lines of python for that
15:43<frosch123>paste them :)
15:55<andythenorth>I wonder if reducing the set of available colours would be wise
15:55<andythenorth>even with the algorithm, there are inevitable perceptual overlaps further down the list
15:56<frosch123>yep, you likele won't find more than 20 colours when excluding all of green and half of violet
15:57<andythenorth>the current list gives 187?
15:58<frosch123>the list gives all colours except the excluded ones and the animation colours
15:58<andythenorth>ok
15:58<frosch123>doesn't mean any colours past the first 30 are any good :p
15:58*andythenorth wonders if the map colour is a newgrf global var :P
15:58<andythenorth>(read, not set)
15:58<frosch123>nope, there are no client-side variables
15:59<andythenorth>such multi-player :P
15:59<frosch123>certain grfs trained some desync-paranoia :)
16:02<andythenorth>max industry count is 51 currently
16:02<andythenorth>that is honestly daft, but there we go :P
16:03<andythenorth>say I am using the ID, and I want to have a range of 32 colours
16:03<andythenorth>repeating where necessary
16:03<andythenorth>is that modulo?
16:04<frosch123>possibly, you could also use random with some fixed seed
16:04<andythenorth>I just wanted a quick hack initially
16:04<andythenorth>to see what extreme looks like
16:04<andythenorth>with 60% repetition
16:12<andythenorth>modulo is so spooky
16:12*andythenorth has no idea how that works, it’s like magic
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16:15<frosch123>it's like only taking the last digit of a number
16:15<andythenorth>@calc 62 % 32
16:15<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 30
16:15<andythenorth>it’s not so spooky :)
16:16<andythenorth>simply repeating automated colours is…BAD
16:17<andythenorth>repetition is fine on a map, but not for industries adjacent in same chain
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>i _think_ this is the correct solution: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pe7t5aq3f
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>>>> i={1:{1,2,3}, 2:{1,3}, 3: {2}, 4: {1,2}}
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>>>> partition(i)
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>[{2, 3}, {4}, {1}]
16:21<Eddi|zuHause>additional magic might be required to not shuffle things around for existing industries if you add new industries
16:21<andythenorth>does map colour need to be stable?
16:21*andythenorth wonders
16:22<andythenorth>I know lots of them by sight, but is it significant?
16:22<Eddi|zuHause>not necessarily "need", but might be helpful
16:32<andythenorth>for FIRS? o_O http://www.railpictures.net/photo/621775/
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>i feel like i've seen that before
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16:37<Vikhenzo>anyone wanna play?
16:39<andythenorth>sorry, bedtime here :)
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16:41<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I’ll leave the paste open for tomorrow or so
16:41*andythenorth -> sleep
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17:05<Wolf01>40 minutes of sleep, ready for 3 hours of play
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19:30<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Mon Jul 03 00:00:32 2017