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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-07-10

---Logopened Mon Jul 10 00:00:05 2017
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06:47<Wolf01>o/
06:47<crem>\o
06:47<Wolf01>Back from lego weekend
06:47<Wolf01>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqgAKlhrsZM
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09:34<supermop>yo
09:35<supermop>buy any more rockets Wolf01 ?
09:35<Wolf01>Nope
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11:31<@Alberth>o/
11:33<frosch123>hoi
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14:24<andythenorth>o/
14:25<ST2>morning :)
14:37<andythenorth>I renamed MNSP http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/cargos.html#manufacturing_supplies
14:38<andythenorth>no kittens died
14:38<andythenorth>frosch123: ^ could drop the special MNSP handling in cargo flow http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html
14:38<andythenorth>I tried it, makes the charts…worse
14:38<andythenorth>but it’s not a magic cargo in any way
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14:50<andythenorth>with no special handling: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html
14:51<andythenorth>ach seems to not have built
14:53<andythenorth>nah, browser caching
14:54<andythenorth>previous version http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/v6399-1856/docs/html/economies.html
15:09<andythenorth>not convinced that Extreme is worse :P
15:09<andythenorth>it’s already as bad as can be
15:13*andythenorth wonders if FIRS would be a lot better without Packaging / MNSP
15:20<andythenorth>wow
15:23<Alkel_U3>well, I like MNSP
15:24<Alkel_U3>even so, ultimately I think I'm not able to really answer that question
15:27<frosch123>andythenorth: MNSP is now produced nowhere?
15:28<frosch123>oh, it is also required nowhere
15:33<andythenorth>I pushed an experiment
15:34<andythenorth>1861 shows MNSP renamed to packaging http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/v6400-1861/docs/html/economies.html
15:34<andythenorth>and no special-case in flow graphs
15:34<andythenorth>1862 shows it totally removed http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/v6400-1862/docs/html/economies.html
15:34<andythenorth>which is appealing, but might be a step too far
15:34<andythenorth>MNSP tends to just piss me off in games
15:35<andythenorth>it’s never where you want it
15:35<andythenorth>but if I remove all the constraints...meh
15:35<frosch123>arctic baic has only one industry that needs it?
15:35<andythenorth>yes
15:35<andythenorth>fishing harbour
15:36<andythenorth>the tell here is that food processing plant doesn’t and has never used it
15:37<frosch123>tropic basic may look better, since chemicals does no longer cross the whole chart
15:37<frosch123>otoh food back arrow
15:37<andythenorth>isn’t it :)
15:37<andythenorth>the 1862 version without packaging is much neater
15:38<frosch123>hot country is way worse though
15:38<andythenorth>the history of MNSP cargo is odd
15:38<andythenorth>it was ‘components’ and ‘packaging’ for a while
15:38<andythenorth>then it got combined
15:41*andythenorth ponders
15:43<andythenorth>most of the destinations were food processors
15:43<andythenorth>food chemicals?
15:43<andythenorth>probably more important than packaging in some cases
15:45<frosch123>you already have way too much chemicals
15:46<frosch123>andythenorth: in hot country it seems to be mostly bottles
15:46<frosch123>so packaging is not that bad of a generic therm
15:46<frosch123>-h
15:47<andythenorth>chemicals make the world go round
15:47<andythenorth>especially the halucinogenic ones
15:47<andythenorth>it’s quite nice to look at a lot of industries that only need one input cargo
15:48<andythenorth>dunno, seems like a big change to make without testing eh
15:48<andythenorth>possible regret
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15:50<andythenorth>do we bottle flour?
15:50<frosch123>bottled fish
15:50<frosch123>it's likely still alive
15:54<andythenorth>but the vineyard doesn’t need MNSP
15:55<andythenorth>no bottled wine
15:55<andythenorth>:P
15:55<andythenorth>🍾
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16:33<andythenorth>hmm
16:33<andythenorth>maybe keep packaging in extreme
16:33<andythenorth>where it’s painful :P
16:38<andythenorth>Fishing Harbour should be Fish Processor
16:38<andythenorth>but eh
16:43<Wolf01>Something fishy here?
16:43<andythenorth>what meat is packed in jars?
16:43<andythenorth>hot dog sausages?
16:43<Wolf01>andythenorth, did you see the video of this lego expo?
16:43<andythenorth>nah
16:43<Wolf01>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqgAKlhrsZM
16:45<andythenorth>crazy clock building
16:45<andythenorth>serious technic men in red shirts
16:46<Wolf01>Yeah, those are professional ones :P
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16:59<andythenorth>bed
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21:13<supermop_home>still trying to cook up exotic running costs
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21:14<supermop_home>somehow just typing some arbitrary factor into each item block seems so boring, it feels like it should be computed from something for interest's sake if nothing else
21:14<supermop_home>(((build_year)-1800)/4)+((num_vehs_in_consist)*10)+(cargo_capacity/10) )
21:14<supermop_home>still seems pretty arbitrary though
21:16<supermop_home>also doesn't make a new articulated tram built in any given year cost much more than an old tram built in the same
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21:16<supermop_home>also if you play for 1000 years that build year part is going to make the factor too big
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21:18<supermop_home>i wonder if I can do build_year) { 1800..1900: ((num_vehs_in_consist)*10)+(cargo_capacity/10) )*x
21:18<supermop_home>etc
21:18<supermop_home>put the math in the returned lines
21:18<supermop_home>probably not
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21:39<supermop_home>I guess I can
21:40<supermop_home>but still can't think of a good rationale for how
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21:40<supermop_home>idk how tram costs grow overtime in a world with no inflation
21:42<supermop_home>they get bigger because the trams are bigger, but less because technology improves. the grow because labor is more expensive, but shrink because you need fewer staff on the tram
21:43<supermop_home>does running an old tram today cost more or less in real costs than when it was new?
21:44<supermop_home>and would a new tram built to same size and performance be more complex or more efficient
21:44<supermop_home>should just make every tram have a running cost factor of 100 and leave it at that
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---Logclosed Tue Jul 11 00:00:06 2017