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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-08-02

---Logopened Wed Aug 02 00:00:36 2017
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04:59<Wolf01>o/
04:59<Arveen2>\o
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05:15<Wolf01>Bah... 31°C perceived as 34°C, and it isn't the top of the day yet
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05:17<Arveen2>24c right now, 27c max predicted
05:18<Arveen2>"mostly cloudy"
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05:23<andythenorth>o/
05:23<Wolf01>o/
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05:31<andythenorth>do we think NRT will?
05:31*andythenorth trying to balance 2 grfs
05:31<andythenorth>Iron Horse has narrow gauge trains
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05:32<andythenorth>Road Hog might gain industrial trains ( as tramtype)
05:32<andythenorth>rework of HEQS trams
05:33<Wolf01>What about my suggestion from yesterday?
05:33<andythenorth>which one? :)
05:33<Wolf01>The one to make *types dynamic
05:34<andythenorth>better commented on by frosch :)
05:34<Wolf01>The separation will be made with a property and not with a different data structure
05:34<andythenorth>which problem does it solve?
05:35<Wolf01>1. You will be able to make from 29 roads and 1 tramway and 1 road and 29 tramway
05:38<Wolf01>2. If we remove tramway completely and make it just a property of the road, then you can just draw twice the sprites for road, one set normal and one set with tramway
05:38<Wolf01>3. one catenary
05:38<Wolf01>4. everything is under control of the author
05:40<andythenorth>how is tram-without-road implemented?
05:40<Wolf01>Good point
05:42<Wolf01>Property of groundtype instead of road?
05:42<andythenorth>I keep coming back to the conclusion that current spec is fine :p
05:43<Wolf01>It is fine because it works already
05:44<andythenorth>also it doesn't cause me any problems :)
05:44<Wolf01>But after some usage I found that there are some weird limitations, which groundtype could diminish, like having to define 10 different tramways for 10 different ground graphics
05:45<andythenorth>well
05:45<andythenorth>if they were all implementing RAIL (for example)
05:45<andythenorth>we could group them somehow in the UI
05:45<andythenorth>maybe types need variants
05:46<andythenorth>actually, that's likely not possible in map currently
05:47<andythenorth>maybe labels don't have to be unique?
05:47*andythenorth thinking out loud
05:49<andythenorth>the appearance is orthogonal to the vehicle compatibility? o_O
05:50<andythenorth>so why are both tied to the same property (label)?
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05:53<andythenorth>funny how the length of narrow gauge train sprites depends on decisions for NRT :p
05:53<andythenorth>maybe it shouldn't 😉
06:18<andythenorth>current IH narrow gauge, versus converting to 2/8 long wagons
06:18<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8515/Image%209.jpg
06:18<andythenorth>ipad can only jpg, so image is spidery :|
06:23<andythenorth>probably would need to redraw track sprites
06:23<andythenorth>too wide currently
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07:22<@Alberth>o/
07:22<Wolf01>o/
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09:20<dihedral>hello
09:22<__ln__>hallo dihedral
09:25<supermop_>yo
09:26<dihedral>how are things in here?
09:27<dihedral>when is the next openttd party? :-P
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09:28<__ln__>haven't heard anything of such
09:28<dihedral>that is a real pitty
09:28*dihedral waves at planetmaker
09:30<dihedral>Rubidium, make it happen ;-)
09:30<__ln__>would a weihnachtsmarkt-glühwein-openttd party work? :)
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09:30<dihedral>uh sounds awesome
09:31<@peter1138>a what?
09:31<Celestar1>?
09:33<@planetmaker>hu
09:34<V453000>ho
09:41<Arveen2>number 32 without olives plz
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10:15*Rubidium decrees that the next party is on Saturday 9th of september 2017 at dihedral's place
10:15<@Rubidium>dihedral, thanks for offering your place ;)
10:27<dihedral>hehe
10:27<dihedral>a turn of events :-P
10:27<@planetmaker>Weihnachtsmarkt-Party at dih's place somewhen November/December? Sounds quite acceptable to me
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10:41<LordAro>dihedral: you finishing up the next 2.3k commits then?
10:46<dihedral>:-P
10:46<@peter1138>NRT, line by line
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13:29<andythen_>o/
13:29<andythen_>3/8 is not a good length eh :p
13:30<andythen_>2/8 is _really_ short
13:30<frosch123>moo
13:30<andythen_>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8515/Image%209.jpg
13:31<Wolf01>Quak
13:31<frosch123>backward vehicles
13:32<andythen_>I quite like the 2/8 but the diagonal views will be wider than they are long :p
13:33<andythen_>still...narrow gauge trains are small eh
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13:38<andythen_>http://www.009dutch.nl/cdr/main/foto/rollingstock/goods/pa137094.jpg
13:38<andythen_>max reality
13:47<Eddi|zuHause>that is your upper row of wagons?
13:47<Cubey>What do 2/8, 3/8, 8/8 etc. refer to specifically?
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13:48<Eddi|zuHause>Cubey: a tile has 16 steps, 8 steps make one default wagon (half a tile)
13:48<andythen_>eddi the upper row is current Iron Horse
13:48<Eddi|zuHause>Cubey: but newgrfs can make shorter wagons
13:48<andythen_>the lower row is one option I'm considering for narrow gauge re-scaled
13:48<Cubey>So 2/8 literally means wagons a quarter the length of the defaults?
13:48<Eddi|zuHause>andythen_: i don't think those wagons serve as example for your lower ultra-short wagons
13:49<Eddi|zuHause>Cubey: yes
13:49<andythen_>eddi what's your rationale?
13:49<Cubey>Wow, for some reason they don't look that small to me. Eyes playing tricks I guess
13:49<Eddi|zuHause>Cubey: that's because the horizontal view is artificially stretched
13:50<andythen_>gestalts scale in a way that makes true size hard to judge
13:50<Cubey>Oh because it's really on a diagonal
13:51<Eddi|zuHause>Cubey: because of weird perspective tricks in openttd, wagons in – view are longer than in / or \ view
13:51<andythen_>http://www.gogeometry.com/mining/caterpillar_d11_d10_d9_d8_4.jpg
13:52<Cubey>I know that trains look much longer when they are traveling along diagonal track, so it makes sense that that extends to the sprites themselves
13:52<andythen_>dozer on left is twice the weight of the ones on the right
13:52<andythen_>but shape is similar so very hard to judge
13:53<Cubey>Looks are deceiving!
13:53<Eddi|zuHause>"twice the weight" is not that much bigger, considering that weight scales cubed
13:54<andythen_>it's more a point about judging size
13:54<andythen_>ships have same challenge
13:54<Eddi|zuHause>andythen_: anyway, you should judge your wagons based on the / view
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>andythen_: because that is what you see most in the game
13:55<andythen_>6px wide, 4px long?
13:55<andythen_>weird much?
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>the – view is mostly to look pretty in depots and lists
13:56<andythen_>2/8 is appealing for integer train lengths
13:56<andythen_>but might look daft
13:57<andythen_>3/8 would look best, but...the integers :(
14:04<andythen_>8 * 3/8 wagons, 4/8 engine, 4/8 brake van
14:05<andythen_>2.0 tiles? o_O
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14:06<andythen_>some of the other rosters will have 'bigger' narrow gauge, and it will be better to reuse sprites
14:07<andythen_>so maybe bigger is better here
14:07<andythen_>4/8 is compatible with realisms
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14:10<andythen_>and this concludes today's length discussion :p
14:11<andythen_>what's to be done about NRT?
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>commit it? make a party?
14:12<andythen_>good idea
14:12<andythen_>it has fallen into a spec hole
14:17<andythen_>if we broke newgrf spec more...
14:17<andythen_>we could ship more recklessly :)
14:22<andythen_>bbl
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14:48<Wolf01>Reboot
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17:10<andythenorth_>Wolf01 so finish current NRT, persuade someone to merge it? :)
17:11<Wolf01>We should ask frosch
17:12<andythenorth_>ok
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