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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-08-22

---Logopened Tue Aug 22 00:00:23 2017
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02:25<andythenorth>o/
02:31<V453000>yo humen
02:31<V453000>how iz?
02:38<andythenorth>iz woke up early
02:40<andythenorth>such ow
02:49<Alkel_U3>much early bird, very coffee
02:50<V453000>iz problem
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04:16<Wolf01>o/
04:17<andythenorth>lo Warrigal
04:17<andythenorth>or Wolf01
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05:20<andythenorth>no global, public, saved searches in FS?
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05:34<LordAro>needs more FS1.0
05:34<LordAro>probably
05:38<andythenorth>I bunched all the crashes https://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?string=Crash%3A&project=1&search_name=&type%5B%5D=&sev%5B%5D=&pri%5B%5D=&due%5B%5D=&reported%5B%5D=&cat%5B%5D=&status%5B%5D=open&percent%5B%5D=&opened=&dev=&closed=&duedatefrom=&duedateto=&changedfrom=&changedto=&openedfrom=&openedto=&closedfrom=&closedto=&do=index
05:40<LordAro>andythenorth: might help to shorten the urls (get rid of the empty params) and collate them somewhere
05:41<LordAro>failing anything builtin
05:41<andythenorth>plausible
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05:53<Wolf01>No public saved searches in FS1.0
05:54<Wolf01>I could try to make a plugin
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06:01<Wolf01>Ok, no plugin system yet...
06:04<@peter1138>heh
06:05<LordAro>lol
06:05<Wolf01>There's a plugins folder but the only plugin is hardcoded
06:05<Wolf01>That's not how it should work
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06:12<Wolf01>Mmmh, there's some github support on FS1.0
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06:24<Wolf01>Oh it's only for oauth access :(
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07:42<Alkel_U3>https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/20934047_10155691434778385_6210327663423420341_o.jpg?oh=7812f312dfba280de4fc01850122fd89&oe=5A1F1F5E
07:48<Wolf01>Lol
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07:53<@peter1138>but that's people searching to see who's written it
07:55<Wolf01>Topic of the day is: what is the best way to do what I want to do?
07:57<Wolf01>I'm still sure the singleton object is good, not so sure about the global variable, One should GetInstance() every time he needs to use it, maybe storing the instance in a local variable for multiple uses
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08:14<milek7>what's singleton?
08:14<milek7>java-speak?
08:15<Wolf01>An object which could be instanciated only once
08:17<__ln__>singleton is one of the original design patterns, it's not java-speak
08:17<Wolf01>Hi __ln__, where are you today?
08:18<__ln__>vienna
08:20<__ln__>going to fly home tonight
08:21<Wolf01>Oh, won't you come here to get the biscuits I purchased for you?
08:22<__ln__>i don't expect the plane to head south, sorry
08:23<__ln__>though what do i need a plane for -- just had a red bull, their national drink
08:24<andythenorth>singleton = root :P
08:24<andythenorth>python, not unix root :P
08:24<milek7>hm, throw in constructor if private static flag indicates that it is already instantaineted?
08:25<milek7>something like GetInstance() is unnecessary imo
08:25<Wolf01>Nope
08:25<Wolf01>Private constructor
08:26<milek7>but then you cannot construct it, not just cannot construct more than once
08:26<Wolf01>Ok, you could do it even with a flag, but you can't return stuff in constructors
08:26<milek7>exceptions
08:26<Wolf01>Not what is wanted
08:26<Wolf01>You can construct it with the GetInstance()
08:27<Wolf01>GetInstance can call the private constructor
08:27<Wolf01>Then you check internally if the instance already exists and return that one in the next calls
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08:41<andythenorth>is cat?
08:41<Wolf01>Is low self esteem day
08:41<V453000>very cat
08:42<andythenorth>such
08:42*andythenorth scrolling unsplash
08:42<andythenorth>long scroll
08:42<andythenorth>such photos
08:55<Flygon>Alkel_U3: Hahahahahaha.
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09:21<Wolf01>Oh shit c++ confuses methods with variables
09:21<Wolf01>*types
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09:30<Wolf01>Now I understand why people used to prefix things
09:31<andythenorth>we used to do that in Flash ActionScript
09:31<andythenorth>recommended practice
09:31<andythenorth>varNumLivesLeft
09:31<Celestar>?!?!
09:31<andythenorth>listEnemyPositions
09:31<Celestar>that's almost as bad as the shitty hungarian notation.
09:31<andythenorth>it’s a distorted version of hungarian notation
09:32<andythenorth>took me years to break the habit
09:32<Wolf01>GameMode GameMode() { return this->game_mode; } overwrites GameMode type :P
09:32<andythenorth>python is very anti- that kind of notation :)
09:32<andythenorth>now I twitch if I write vehicles_list = []
09:32<andythenorth>“BUT IT MIGHT NOT BE A LIST"
09:34<andythenorth>https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yIErBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA54&lpg=PA54&dq=actionscript+hungarian+notation&source=bl&ots=EfcjqVNcJL&sig=oI4ico40ELFocoMEr28NsJ5o6aE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwixvcCO-urVAhUhBMAKHTzdBusQ6AEIMTAD#v=onepage&q=actionscript%20hungarian%20notation&f=false
09:34<andythenorth>FFS, what a shit language convention :)
09:35<andythenorth>ActionScript is bollocks
09:35<Celestar>flash just went from 'shitty' to 'abyssmal'
09:35<andythenorth>it has one nice feature, which is trivial traversal of the object hierarchy
09:35<andythenorth>which also shows up in some python things
09:35<andythenorth>_self._parent._parent.x = 10
09:35<andythenorth>oops, no ;
09:36<Wolf01>That's the fault of typeless variables
09:36<andythenorth>that will fail to compile :P
09:36<andythenorth>Wolf01: ActionScript is typed :P
09:36<andythenorth>strongly iirc
09:36<andythenorth>oh, but not vars
09:36<andythenorth>vars are just vars
09:36<Wolf01>So, how can you put 10 into a string?
09:36<Wolf01>Eh
09:36<andythenorth>yeah no you’re right
09:36*andythenorth checks
09:37<Wolf01>PHP is the same shit
09:37<Wolf01>But it's changing
09:37<Wolf01>Also you can check what is contained on each var and put validations on every function
09:37<andythenorth>they’re only strongly typed in ActionScript 3, but that’s post my time
09:38<Wolf01>In PHP for example you can even pass a string as a valid array... and shit bricks
09:39<Wolf01>And javascript same shit too, but everything is an object there
09:40<andythenorth>Wolf01: try some python :D
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09:45<_dp_>python is strongly typed, more than c even
09:45<_dp_>but dynamically
09:47<andythenorth>quack
09:47<crem>quack++
09:49<andythenorth>repr([duck.name for duck in ducks if duck.quack])
09:49<andythenorth>error: duck.name cannot be converted to string
09:49<andythenorth>fricking duck 22
09:49<andythenorth>^ that’s probably not valid python
09:49*andythenorth didn’t test
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09:50<andythenorth>name error: ducks not found
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09:54<V453000>every python is valid
09:54<V453000>don't discriminate
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09:55<V453000>python is just 2 tentacly eyes away from a slug
09:55<V453000>no messing with that
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10:02<Wolf01>A python isn't slimey
10:02<andythenorth>dry
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10:02<andythenorth>warm
10:03<andythenorth>snakes are remarkably fun
10:03<andythenorth>not slimey
10:04<V453000>duh
10:04<V453000> /me has no words
10:04<V453000>also I actually stopped being a lazy piece of trash and dove right into redoing them BRIX trees
10:05<V453000>it's not going too badly but it's still a lot of them models :)
10:05<V453000>no python aid there
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11:58<Wolf01>Bah tedious work, >500 occurrencies to replace one by one
12:00<andythenorth>write a code generator :P
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12:05<frosch123>hmm, will the kdev4-project-generator patch work for kdev5?
12:06<Wolf01>Quak
12:07<Wolf01>andythenorth: I would replace all occurrencies with snippets, but then I would need to find again all the places where I can replace again the GetInstance with a local variable
12:10<andythenorth>frosch123: presumably we could test that, with enough patience and VMs? :P
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12:24<frosch123>who had the idea to put utf-16 values into inifiles by \x escaping all characters...
12:24<LordAro>burn them
12:25<frosch123>why does kdevelop use utf16 in the first place?
12:25<frosch123>only windows-people use utf16
12:28<LordAro>and ICU :p
12:29<LordAro>and java
12:29<LordAro>and...
12:29<frosch123>didn't icu use ucs4?
12:29<frosch123>(possibly equivalent to utf32)
12:33<LordAro>reasonably certain icu's backend uses utf16
12:33<LordAro>too old for utf32
12:33<LordAro>(yes yes, s/utf16/ucs2, s/utf32/ucs4 where appropriate)
12:44<milek7>have you seen quasselcore config file?
12:49<milek7>http://i.imgur.com/RQakank.png
12:50<frosch123>that looks exactly like the kdevelop project file
12:50<frosch123>i guess they share some code
12:54<LordAro>milek7: that is what you get for using quassel
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13:55<supermop_>to have pantographs randomly at either end of a tram
13:55<supermop_>(trams in game never reverse, but to give the illusion that they do)
13:55<supermop_>i need sprites for forward and rear panto graphs
13:56<supermop_>assuming all pantograph elbows point in a similar direction, say towards the end of the tram they are on
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13:57<supermop_>the rear sprite would be positions differently based on how long the tram is
13:58<supermop_>better to have separate rear panto sprites for 4, 5, 6, etc length trams
13:58<supermop_>or the same and have separate templates ?
13:58<supermop_>not sure which is more work
13:59<supermop_>i guess the extra sprites increases grf size
14:00<supermop_>i could use only old style pantographs that look the same each way
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14:07<andythenorth>such crashes :) https://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?string=Crash%3A
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14:15<supermop_>what looks better - panto elbow forward or back? ive seen it both ways
14:16<supermop_>i sort of like the jarring unexpectedness of elbow back
14:16<supermop_>like a horse leg
14:16<andythenorth>forward
14:16<andythenorth>potato / potato tbh
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14:17<frosch123>symmetric :p
14:17<supermop_>frosch123: symmetrical pantographs would be too easy
14:17<andythenorth>https://www.1000steine.de/de/gemeinschaft/forum/img/7161-1366895278.jpg
14:17<andythenorth>forward
14:18<supermop_>nice tgv
14:18<supermop_>ive never seen a tram with different pantographs for different directions
14:18<supermop_>have seen long trams with two poles
14:19<V453000>fuck off andythenorth
14:19<V453000>you make me want to model that into brix
14:19<V453000>:D
14:19<supermop_>where it would not be possible to turn the pole to the othe rside
14:19<V453000>too awesome
14:19<andythenorth>V453000: such BRIX
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14:22<Wolf01>I wanted to make a lego trainset for brickland
14:22<Wolf01>But I've never finished brickland
14:22<andythenorth>:)
14:23<andythenorth>let’s find some FS to close
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14:42<frosch123>what's your next milestone?
14:42<Wolf01>Down to 100
14:43<frosch123>initially i wondered whether you would reach 100 unread emails
14:43<frosch123>this morning you passed 150
14:43<frosch123>:p
14:44<Wolf01>I want a slave to do what I'm doing
14:45<supermop_>andythenorth: do you have a good, two arm/symmetrical panto i can steal?
14:45<frosch123>hah, symmetric!
14:46<Wolf01>I could draw it for you
14:46<Wolf01>\\
14:46<Wolf01><>
14:47<Wolf01>Just use some immagination
14:47<frosch123>maybe you can implement templates using pantographs
14:52<andythenorth>frosch123: I am at 13k unread emails ;)
14:52<andythenorth>it’s a good habit
14:53<andythenorth>supermop_: pantographs in Road Hog are just sticks http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/road-hog/push/LATEST/docs/html/road_vehicles.html
14:54<supermop_>what about the raven? maybe ill take that
14:54<frosch123>last week i got an automated email at work, my email box was at 1.9/2 gb capacity
14:54<frosch123>i didn't know there was a limit
14:54<andythenorth>supermop_: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/entry/src/graphics/raven_0.png
14:55<andythenorth>so do crashes really matter? o_O
14:56<andythenorth>at work a crash can put my customer in court
14:56<andythenorth>in OpenTTD….just reload your autosave?
14:56<frosch123>depends how often you need to do it :)
14:57<andythenorth>well I crash OpenTTD…a lot
14:57<andythenorth>but the 33 crash reports…dunno, could some just be closed?
14:57<frosch123>but you do it intentionally
14:57<frosch123>don't close the icu one, i keep it as template to link duplicate reports
14:57<andythenorth>https://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?string=Crash%3A
14:57<andythenorth>I’m not closing any right now :)
14:58<andythenorth>I have no justification
15:02<crem>andythenorth: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/get_started.html#firs-gameplay is a bit confusing. I believe there should be a step by step instruction. At least which exactly FIRS package to download (instead of "you can find it from bananas") and also what are the most basic/typical vehicle set that supports it (instead of "it won't be playable by default, but
15:02<crem>you'll be able to find way to make it playable").
15:03<__ln__>hi Wolf01, greetings from latvia
15:04<Alkel_U3>__ln__: are you traveling?
15:04<crem>The "Bananas" name is a bit misleading too, as there's no mention of this word in openttd itself (is it an internal codename for the repository?).
15:04<Alkel_U3>IIRC last time it was czechoslovakia
15:05<Wolf01>Yeah, he's returning home
15:06<andythenorth>crem: that’s useful thanks
15:06<andythenorth>I often wonder about Bananaramas
15:06<andythenorth>it’s not mentioned in OpenTTD at all
15:06<andythenorth>so eh
15:06<andythenorth>it’s only on the website http://bananas.openttd.org/en
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15:07<Wolf01>andythenorth: in fact you should call it (online) content manager
15:08<crem>On the website, if there would be a way to sort by download count, it would be also useful hint what to pick!
15:08<crem>hm, maybe in a game it's possible..
15:08<@planetmaker>crem: not really useful. As download count ~ age of content
15:08<Wolf01>I usually don't rely much on the download count of things, I have particular tastes
15:09<@planetmaker>often-updated content then will show as unpopular
15:10<__ln__>Alkel_U3: yes, returning home, changing plane at riga
15:11<crem>I think that "online content manager" is better than just "content manager" as there's no mention of "manager" in the game either, only "online content".
15:20<supermop_>andythenorth: hmm i had it in my mind that raven had red pantos but i guess i was wrong
15:20<andythenorth>DLC
15:20<andythenorth>like everything else :P
15:21<andythenorth>and charge €1 per D/L, or €10 with support
15:21<supermop_>micropayment to buy red pantographs for my locomotives?
15:21<andythenorth>we’d make at least €100 / month
15:21<supermop_>solid 1cc is free, each additional livery is 2 quid
15:22<andythenorth>like some game I played
15:22<andythenorth>Need for Speed
15:22<andythenorth>pay to repaint your car
15:22<supermop_>do you have to pay for gas?
15:23<supermop_>diesel train: pay $1/month per locomotive for fuel
15:23<supermop_>electric: pay $100 up front to wire your tracks plus ongoing $1 fleetwide to run
15:25<Alkel_U3>might as well use that weird force feedback device that draws blood
15:33<supermop_>now to draw so roof greeble so the tops of diesel trams don't look so lonely
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15:43<crem>Sorry for staying on the same topic. I've started a few game with FIRS enabled. On the map if I switch it in "industries" mode, there are two "coal mine"s, two "iron ore mine"s and two "still mill"s. Is that intended?
15:44<frosch123>no :)
15:44<frosch123>do you have some other newgrf enabled
15:45<frosch123>if you find which, tell andy, so he can extend the compatibility check
15:45<crem>Yes, OpenGFX+ for everyting.
15:45<frosch123>remove opengfx+industries
15:45<crem>ok :)
15:46<frosch123>andythenorth: please add 4F472B33 to compatibility checks :)
15:46<crem>Yesterday someone said that FIRS wouldn't be playable without opengfx+. Probably only vehicles is what I needed.
15:46<frosch123>crem: yes, you need vehicles :)
15:46<@planetmaker>FIRS requires vehicles, yes
15:46<frosch123>but there may only be one industry set
15:46<frosch123>everything else is fine in multiple instances
15:46<crem>vehicles and trains, right?
15:47<@planetmaker>but whatever choice, doesn't matter so much. It's just that the OpenGFX+ vehicles should transport everything
15:47<@planetmaker>well... ships maybe? planes?
15:47<crem>There's no OpenGFX+ ships
15:47<@planetmaker>but there's no such thing as those in the OpenGFX theme, yes
15:47<@planetmaker>I recommend andy's own ship set
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15:47<crem>ahhhhhhhhh.
15:47<@planetmaker>FISH probably. or squid
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15:47<crem>Your package system is a mess. :)
15:48<crem>I just need a list of packages to install and play.
15:48<crem>Just any arbitrary set that works. :)
15:48<frosch123>planetmaker: i guess noone knows what it is names currently :)
15:48<@planetmaker>:D
15:48<@planetmaker>crem: well... it's hard to have any hard dependencies
15:49<@planetmaker>crem, usually it's a good idea: at most one NewGRF per type (trains, vehicles, ships, planes, industries, houses, tracks)
15:49<@planetmaker>you may use many object sets, though
15:49<@planetmaker>and when you use industry newgrf: then choose at least a train newgrf with cargo support
15:50<crem>I installed one opengfx+ per type, and FIRS. Turned out I didn't need industries. :) Aand it seems I won't have planes and ships for FIRS, so I need something in addition to that
15:50<frosch123>:)
15:51<crem>That's simply not possible that someone will be able to set it up without reading irc/forums through.
15:51<frosch123>i always wanted to write a guide
15:52<frosch123>but that will inevitable upset some people :p
15:52<crem>Curated presets are needed. :)
15:52<andythenorth>frosch123: can you patch FIRS? o_O
15:52<andythenorth>for 4F472B33 :P
15:53<crem>It seems that none of ships packages explicitly say they are compatible with FIRS.
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15:53<supermop_>all of andy's ships should work well with firs
15:54<andythenorth>crem: I am a bit afk and can’t really read here, but the feedback on starting a FIRS game is useful
15:54<frosch123>crem: it's save to assume that all vehicle sets in content download are compatible with firs
15:54<crem>what's andy's ships? search for "Andy" doesn't seem to result in anything sensible..
15:55<andythenorth>FISH or Squid
15:55<andythenorth>Unsinkable Sam is much better for gameplay, but the graphics are totally borked (not drawn yet)
15:55<crem>But I mean will I be able to transport Milk with that? (I noticed milk factory among industries).
15:55*andythenorth too many ships :P
15:56<andythenorth>Squid should work 100% with FIRS
15:56<andythenorth>also Road Hog and Iron Horse, and CHIPS stations
15:56<frosch123>andythenorth: it's listed at the bottom
15:56<frosch123>does that mean it was added recently?
15:57<frosch123>2017-07-16 :p
15:57<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/changes/src/incompatible_grfs.py
15:58<crem>Ok, now to planes. :) Any recommendation?
15:58<crem>well, planes are mostly for people anyway
15:58<crem>so probably standard is ok
15:58<frosch123>use av8, not av9 :p
16:01<crem>There are four av8s. :)
16:02<frosch123>av8 Aviators Aircraft Set
16:02<frosch123>not the silly extra aircraft
16:02<crem>Yes, with different versions. I need the latest, I guess.
16:03<frosch123>1.5x
16:03<frosch123>hmm, or 2.x?
16:03<frosch123>at some point the grf turns bonkers
16:04<frosch123>but maybe av9 is a separate entry and av8 2.x is fine
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16:07<crem>Is FIRS compatible with original_windows graphics set? For some reason I had OpenGFX selected even though I did have original_windows.
16:07<crem>"Base graphics" is only UI elements, or also vehicles/industry?
16:07<frosch123>the author plays with original graphics :)
16:07<frosch123>but generally all base graphics are compatible with everything
16:09<V453000>a lot of shit is drawn to fit with opengfx unfortunately
16:09<frosch123>V453000: i thought it is drawn to fit zbase? :p
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16:13<crem>What are the "story book" and "goal list" buttons in the toolbar and why are they disabled?
16:13<frosch123>they are for gamescripts with goals
16:14<frosch123>don't bother for now :)
16:14<andythenorth>FIRS looks bad with ogfx :)
16:14<frosch123>i never noticed
16:15<crem>In color scheme dialog, why are there two colors for every item? Changing the second doesn't seem to have any effect.
16:17<frosch123>some vehicles will use both
16:18<frosch123>set the first one to the dominant company color
16:18<frosch123>and the second one to one that accompanies the first
16:18<frosch123>contrast without clash
16:18<crem>ok :) thanks
16:20<crem>wow, mines now accept something!
16:20<crem>namely engineering supplies.
16:20<frosch123>which economy did you select?
16:20<frosch123>i hope not "firs extreme" :p
16:21<Wolf01>I would make firs extreme as default
16:21<crem>where could I select that?
16:21<Wolf01>Grf parameters
16:21<frosch123>in newgrf settings where you added the grf, select the grf, and then there is a parameters button
16:22<crem>ah! as if there were too few places to find settings!
16:22<@planetmaker>yeah, we should add a few more :P
16:22<frosch123>we also need a "shuffle gui" setting
16:22<frosch123>which randomly reorders the gui elements
16:22<@planetmaker>definitely
16:23<Wolf01>That would be interesting
16:23<crem>"game options" and "settings" look quite arbirary too, but I know that's for historical reasons. :)
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16:23<frosch123>yes, we tried for years to remove one of them
16:23<frosch123>still not done
16:23<frosch123>but we removed difficulty settings and news settings :)
16:23<@planetmaker>and added newgrf parameter GUI :P
16:24<crem>economy setting was "temperate basic", so I guess it's ok. :)
16:24<frosch123>that was before that
16:24<@planetmaker>though technically that wasn't adding but making it accessible
16:24<frosch123>crem: yup, sounds fine
16:24<Wolf01>And transparency UI
16:25<Wolf01>We need to move all those silly settigns to show things into transparency UI
16:25<Wolf01>And move "full animation" to options
16:26<frosch123>yeah, but we even failed to make a mockup of the new transparency gui :)
16:27<Wolf01>Just add more buttons and a separatos
16:27<Wolf01>*r
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16:28<frosch123>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=54262 <- at least 4 attempts there
16:29<Wolf01>I don't like any of them :P
16:29<crem>Extreme settings do look nice. You say I shouldn't start with that? It looks like I can just connect random industries and there will be cargo type that they need to be transfered. :)
16:30<frosch123>crem: the other economies are designed by a human, and play-tested
16:31<crem>ok, starting with basic
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16:35<supermop_>andythenorth: should i name this shit road candy?
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16:39<crem>https://translator.openttdcoop.org/project/firs doesn't open, says revoked certificate. And there's seemingly no way to ignore that warning.
16:39<andythenorth>supermop_: why not? o_O
16:40<supermop_>idk this thing doesn't deserve to take such a cool name?
16:40<supermop_>also sounds illicit
16:40<supermop_>like amphetemines for truckers
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16:41<frosch123>crem: yes, it uses a certificate from that israelian authority which messed with their certification dates to circumvent security checks, and then was banned from all major browsers
16:41<frosch123>or something like that
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16:43<Cubey>I don't know about all browsers but there should be some way to click through the certificate warning
16:43<Cubey>In Chrome for me it is hidden under a button labeled "advanced"
16:44<crem>Everyone seems to be happy with certificates from https://letsencrypt.org/, which offers free certificates. (expiration is 3 months though, so need to set up a script to extend).
16:44<Cubey>That's rather new isn't it?
16:44<crem>I'm on dev channel of Chrome, so maybe in newer versions there's no way to bypass that. At least I cannot find the way to do that.
16:45<Cubey>Hmm maybe not, seems to go back to 2014
16:45<crem>Yes letsencrypt is ~1 year old.
16:46<crem>I mean they start issuing certificate in 2016 I think.
16:46<Cubey>Harmless certificate problems are so common that it would be very strange to have no way to bypass it whatsoever
16:46<Cubey>Like I'm sure it's a very good thing to have an idiot-proof warning by default
16:47<crem>Indeed old chrome can bypass it, but not new.
16:48<Cubey>Oh I'm reading that there's a command line switch to ignore the error
16:48<Cubey>But you wouldn't want that to happen all the time...why would they do this
16:49<supermop_>hmm now its not showing up in my newgrf list for somereason
16:50<supermop_>probably because my name is so stupid
16:50<Cubey>crem does this work? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/35274659/using-badidea-word-to-bypass-chrome-certificate-hsts-error
16:51<@planetmaker>hm... we need to change certificates there?
16:51<@planetmaker>hm
16:52<crem>yes, badidea works!
16:52<frosch123>planetmaker: letsencrypt does not yet have wildcard certificates
16:53<frosch123>planetmaker: but otoh there is apparently a debian package to create and renew them automatically
16:53<@planetmaker>problem is - iirc - that we somewhat need wildcards... or we're in for some serious reconfiguration
16:54<@planetmaker>or simply remove some web server aliases
16:54<Cubey>It says here that they are going to introduce them in January
16:54<Cubey>So you could change over in a few months
16:54<Cubey>https://letsencrypt.org/2017/07/06/wildcard-certificates-coming-jan-2018.html
16:54<@planetmaker>dev.o.o/projects/nml -> nml.o.o or so is currently in place for some. And that depends on wildcards
16:55<@planetmaker>interesting
16:55<frosch123>eints.o.o, hg.o.o, jenkins.o.o, ...
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>how did we survive without cets.o.o? :p
16:57<frosch123>we added eddi.o.o instead
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17:00<frosch123>planetmaker: apparently ovh is a major sponsor of letsencrypt
17:00<frosch123>so maybe they also have some automatism for that
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17:00<@planetmaker>hm :) o.o is run on a hetzner server ,though :)
17:00<@planetmaker>for hysterical raisins really
17:01<frosch123>hmm, were they not the same?
17:01<frosch123>or did i confuse something?
17:01<@planetmaker>no, not really
17:01<@planetmaker>they're competitors
17:01<frosch123>there was also soyoustart, which was essentially one of them
17:02<@planetmaker>soyoustart is OVH
17:03<@planetmaker>it's just a brand of them targeting the gaming community
17:03<supermop_>ok diesel and steam trams working
17:03<@planetmaker>at some point they wanted us to switch (not the physical server but what we said what we run on)
17:03<frosch123>well, i think my email is on hetzner...
17:03<supermop_>and electric trams get random pantograph sides
17:05<Wolf01>mode->mode.mode != _game_mode Mode-a-rama
17:07<frosch123>planetmaker: i guess we do not really need a wildcard cert
17:07<frosch123>it should be possible to just list all the domains
17:07<supermop_>hmm steam smoke spawning in front of my steam tram
17:07<frosch123>shouldn't be more than 10
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17:11<frosch123>they support certificates for up to 100 subdomains
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17:23<Wolf01>Ha! Game starts and exits immediately, I think I made some fuck up
17:24<@planetmaker>frosch123, yes... it would be possible, I guess... needs careful review of all the stuff on the proxy though
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17:30<Wolf01>Ha! Bug! Transmitters on desert have green tile
17:36<supermop_>hmm my last diesel tram has just a bunch of ogfx bus sprites for each segment
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17:37<supermop_>this seems wrong
17:37<frosch123>Wolf01: there was a fs task for that
17:37<frosch123>no idea whether andy closed it :p
17:37<Wolf01>I'll slap him if he did it :P
17:37<@peter1138>letsencrypt is automated anyway
17:37<Wolf01>BTW, I made that patch with the singleton
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17:41<andythenorth>Wolf01: I’m finding it now
17:42<andythenorth>Wolf01: you’ll have to slap peter1138 https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6531
17:43<Wolf01>Meh
17:43<andythenorth>anyone else had long, slightly troubling forum PMs?
17:43<andythenorth>probably just me then
17:44<supermop_>i wonder if i am hitting some limit
17:44<frosch123>andythenorth: i have not been on forums for three weeks :)
17:44<frosch123>except for the things which were linked here
17:45<frosch123>like tranparency gui earlier
17:45<andythenorth>supermop_: what’s your highest vehicle ID?
17:45<andythenorth>articulated units can’t have an ID > 16k or so
17:45<supermop_>i got rid of ids
17:45<frosch123>andythenorth: anyway, are people complaining you closed their tasks? :p
17:45<andythenorth>nah, something else
17:45<andythenorth>not worth exploring
17:45<andythenorth>retreading of ancient long-dead history
17:46<andythenorth>by someone with 10% of the story and a bee in their bonnet
17:46<frosch123>aw, not even firs feature requests
17:46<andythenorth>I redirect those to public forum
17:46<andythenorth>;)
17:46<supermop_>the two trams that have this issue are both ones where ive tried to use a switch to detect drive on side
17:46<andythenorth>supermop_: you probably just fucked up :
17:46<andythenorth>:)
17:46<supermop_>and change door opening accordingly
17:46<andythenorth>BAD FEATURES hurt you :)
17:47<supermop_>not sure what i wrote that its taking to mean 'draw a MPS Regal Centipede'
17:47<andythenorth>how many of them have you got?
17:47<andythenorth>sounds like your articulated switch is broken
17:48<andythenorth>or you have a broken graphics chain
17:48<andythenorth>have you tried turning OpenTTD on and off again? o_O
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17:48<supermop_>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pjkfkjfys
17:49<supermop_>5 regals in a row
17:49<andythenorth>how many should there be?
17:49<andythenorth>is it a 5 unit tram?
17:49<supermop_>yes
17:49<supermop_>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/plvgspfdq
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17:51<supermop_>http://imgur.com/a/3TvcL
17:51<andythenorth>same ID, different lengths eh
17:51<andythenorth>such modern methods :)
17:52<supermop_>idk if thats wrong but i do that for other trams without this issue
17:54<supermop_>must be the drive side
17:54<supermop_>i can comment it out,
17:54<supermop_>but would have been nice to use it
17:59<supermop_>hmm switch should be FEAT_GLOBALVARS
17:59<andythenorth>it’s not wrong to change length like that
17:59<supermop_>not FEAT_ROADVEHS
17:59<Wolf01>https://gist.github.com/Wolfolo/d7cfc9f2018339453d14f62a9e6e26d6 >10 hours of work, and I think it's still a mess
17:59<andythenorth>you have no default result, so probably no valid sprite
18:00<supermop_>do i still need 'self' if it is for global vars
18:00<andythenorth>action 2 chain probably just chokes somewhere if it’s an invalid var, can’t remember how it works
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18:00<andythenorth>or returns a value that happens to match to the bus sprite
18:00*andythenorth thinking
18:01<andythenorth>supermop_: don’t know about SELF there, what do nml docs say?
18:01<supermop_>for switches it says 'N/A' for feat_globalvars
18:01<andythenorth>afaik, I’ve never used FEAT_GLOBALVARS
18:01<andythenorth>new to me
18:01<supermop_>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Switch
18:01<supermop_>idk if that means i can omit it
18:03<supermop_>hmmm
18:03<andythenorth>try it
18:03<andythenorth>nmlc probably does the write thing when compiling
18:03<andythenorth>right / write /s
18:03<andythenorth>if the scope is N/A here, then nmlc probably sorts that out for you
18:04<supermop_>nmlc says: "cannot refer to block 'switch_spriteset_mc5_tram' with feature 'FEAT_GLOBALVARS', expected feature is 'FEAT_ROADVEHS'
18:05<andythenorth>ok
18:05<andythenorth>what is this drive side var?
18:05*andythenorth never encountered it
18:05<andythenorth>Wolf01: you’re sorting out the game settings mess, for newgame / new scenario?
18:06<Wolf01>Not yet
18:06<supermop_>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:General#General_variables
18:06*andythenorth looking
18:08<andythenorth>supermop_: are you sure that it’s traffic_side that’s failing?
18:08<andythenorth>you chain through more switches
18:08<supermop_>nope
18:08<supermop_>but thats the thing that is different for the two trams that have the problem
18:09<supermop_>no other tram tries to use traffic side
18:12<andythenorth>hmm
18:12<andythenorth>bed for now
18:12<andythenorth>sorry :)
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18:29<supermop_>Hmm well commenting out that switch fixed it
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18:55*Wolf01 sleeps too
18:55<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Wed Aug 23 00:00:25 2017