Back to Home / #openttd / 2017 / 08 / Prev Day | Next Day
#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-08-24

---Logopened Thu Aug 24 00:00:00 2017
---Daychanged Thu Aug 24 2017
00:00<Sylf>there's the disconnect
00:00-!-SimYouLater [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:00<SimYouLater_>Now it's changed to ...1.2
00:00<SimYouLater_>brb then since that's fauirly easy to fix in the preferred way now that I know how.
00:00<Sylf>so, it's the classic case of IT crowd
00:01<Sylf>"Have you turned it off and on again?"
00:01<ST2>fact is that on Linux isn't needed
00:02<ST2>but, as W10 user... I support it :=
00:02<Sylf>you still need to redo the connection... you can't renew the IP without disconnect
00:03<SimYouLater_>Strange, the name is still the random string, and another Windows 10 PC as well as this one at some point in the past aren't doing that but showing the computer's system name
00:04<SimYouLater_>Which is hy I haven't disconnected again yet.
00:04<ST2>[04:59:56] *** SimYouLater_ ( joined
00:04<ST2>[04:59:58] <ST2> and*
00:04<ST2>[05:00:01] <Sylf> there's the disconnect
00:04<ST2>[05:00:03] *** SimYouLater quit (Remote host closed the connection)
00:04-!-SimYouLater_ [] has quit []
00:04<ST2>thank you Sylf for helping :)
00:04-!-SimYouLater [] has joined #openttd
00:04-!-SimYouLater is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #openttd
00:04<SimYouLater>I don't know what happened, but I didn't unplug yet.
00:05<SimYouLater>and internet was up the whole time.
00:05<SimYouLater>IRC just dropped me for some reason.
00:05<ST2>you changed settings... normally that happens ^^
00:05<ST2>dnt be scared ;)
00:06<SimYouLater>Except I haven't changed settings in the router since I last reconnected
00:06<SimYouLater>The DHCP is still in
00:06<ST2>changed on PC?
00:06<SimYouLater>Not there either.
00:07<ST2>ok, let me write a letter to pope Francis for another miracle xD
00:07<SimYouLater>Seriosuly, no changes to my router's or pc's settings despite saying I would.
00:07<SimYouLater>Whatever, I'm connected now.
00:08<ST2>so, you know your network IP and your external one
00:08<ST2>on the router, forward the ports to your computer (in and out, TCP and UDP)
00:08<SimYouLater>The problem is that the random string letter-number name is still there. A borrowed family member's Windows 10 Home tablet is showing he right name, and this PC has in th past.
00:09<ST2>and stated, standard are 3979 - unless you change your cfg files
00:09<SimYouLater>Except now the name is under
00:09<ST2>do not mess up DNS with WINS
00:10<SimYouLater>I think I might have to remove the DHCP and then restart the PC. I've got a Razer driver install telling me to do it anyway... let me try that./
00:11<SimYouLater>> do not mess up DNS with WINS
00:12<SimYouLater>As in, don't confuse DNS with Windows 10?
00:12<SimYouLater>Or don't use "wins" to modify DNS?
00:12<ST2>well, that was for PT
00:12<ST2>but you need to understand WINS to know how DNS works
00:13<ST2>one is the way back of the other, lets put it on short words xD
00:13<SimYouLater>I'm not touching WINS, don't worry. Right now I'm just trying to make my router's setting more organized.
00:15<SimYouLater>By name, I mean that the name it gives for my PC was the old phone's "name". For a Winsdows 10 Tablet that was connected, it has the name of the PC in that PC's system settings: CLARA-1957
00:16<ST2>SimYouLater: it doesn't matter: your Router controls it
00:16<ST2>show to your Router who has the "balls" xD
00:16<SimYouLater>And in the past my desktop has shown the system name instead of the random string which I at least recognize the first two letter-nmbers as the one my phone had.
00:17<SimYouLater>If it was working properly, it would say PCDESK-1991.
00:18<SimYouLater>I'm going to try the restart of my PC, that might work.
00:19-!-SimYouLater [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
00:19-!-supermop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:19<ST2>well, on there... only can say ^^
00:36-!-supermop [] has joined #openttd
00:36-!-supermop is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
00:39-!-ToBeFree [] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
01:02-!-Cubey [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:57-!-DDR [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:13-!-cHawk [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:26-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
02:26-!-andythenorth is "andythenorth" on #openttd
02:36-!-supermop_home [] has joined #openttd
02:36-!-supermop_home is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
02:37-!-supermop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:37<andythenorth>how’s the game crem?
02:39-!-DDR [] has joined #openttd
02:39-!-DDR is "David" on #openttd
02:44<crem>Well, it goes pretty well. :)
02:44<crem>Do you usually build two-track railway from the beginning?
02:44<andythenorth>personally no
02:44<andythenorth>it’s a cheaper start with1 track
02:44<andythenorth>also I like to mess up my network deliberately
02:45<andythenorth>keeps the mid-game more interesting, fixing my early mess
02:45<andythenorth>V453000 such 5am again :(
02:45*andythenorth old man moaning
02:45<crem>But more than one train per track, right?
02:46<crem>I don't mess anything deliberately, but the network soon starts to be a mess anyway.
02:50-!-cHawk [] has joined #openttd
02:50-!-cHawk is "realname" on #tor #openttd
02:55<andythenorth>more than one train per track, with passing loops
02:57<V453000>5 am?
02:57<V453000>I finally went to sleep at 1
02:57<V453000>slept until 8
02:59<andythenorth>7 hours sleep is way too much
02:59<V453000>also found some sick music I listened to 10 years ago, having a good morning
03:00<andythenorth>I worked till 10pm, pointlessly read intenet until 11pm, got woke up by wife before 5am
03:00<andythenorth>such winning
03:00<andythenorth>what music?
03:01<V453000>Fear Factory, some good industrial metal
03:02<V453000>it's a nice mix of good quality and just straight forward heavy not giving a fuck mess ... and I feel like I haven'
03:02<V453000>t heard anything like that recently made
03:03<V453000>even their newer albums are usually trying to be political and give a message and sometimes when you just overdo it, it is really weird in heavy music to me
03:05-!-FLHerne [] has joined #openttd
03:05-!-FLHerne is "Francis Herne" on #openttd
03:05<V453000>TL;DR shit's great
03:08*andythenorth youtubes it
03:09<andythenorth>such industrial metal eh
03:11<V453000>they're super old and their style changed quite a lot so it's hard to randomly youtube it :D
03:12<andythenorth>seems legit
03:13<V453000>yeah this is the super old stuff, can't say I like that much
03:13<V453000>it's not bad, I just prefer the newer things
03:14<V453000> medium era, modern
03:15<V453000>hm shit now I realize I need to copy the old things as well
03:17<andythenorth>maybe it’s a Nine Inch Nails day here
03:19<andythenorth>such techno
03:20<andythenorth>Nine Inch Nails is like the second most ultimate form of pop music
03:20<andythenorth>after the KLF
03:20<V453000>yeah I know NIN, I heard the whole discography about few times but I didn't really like it that much
03:21<andythenorth>it was maybe a moment-in-time thing
03:22<andythenorth>along with watching this on heavy repeat
03:22<andythenorth>and playing LAN Doom in the dark hours of the night
03:27<V453000>omfg discovered new interesting way how to make a tree so it's less minecraft :D
03:30*andythenorth having a newgrf break
03:32<V453000>basically green shapes (bricks) held by some branches
03:32<V453000>instead of branch structure going inside
03:32<andythenorth>looks like a hug
03:32<V453000>iz hug
03:33<V453000>yeah don't want to go full lego ;P
03:33<V453000>I feel like taking lego and minecraft references is kind of lame
03:33<andythenorth>iz lame
03:33<andythenorth>I use it to see shapes though
03:33<andythenorth>also colours
03:33<V453000>point good
03:33<andythenorth>reduces realism to simple forms and shit
03:34<andythenorth>such art
03:34*andythenorth back to politics
03:34<andythenorth>and FS
03:36-!-supermop_home_ [] has joined #openttd
03:36-!-supermop_home_ is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
03:36<andythenorth>oops, playing this loud with kids nearby
03:37<V453000>when hearing both together with this ...
03:37<V453000>pretty fucked up
03:37-!-supermop_home [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:38<V453000>... that's one of their electro grindcore whatever experiments XD
03:39<V453000>also dirty AF
03:40-!-Hiddenfunstuff [] has joined #openttd
03:40-!-Hiddenfunstuff is "Geth" on #openttd #/r/openttd #openttdcoop
03:40<V453000>sometimes I tend to listen to 80s styled synthwave, something about it is just so refreshing this one is rather dark but you get the point
03:42<andythenorth>ha skulls and shit
03:43<V453000>this thing is nuts
03:43<andythenorth>they have definitely got some Depeche Mode in their CD collection
03:43<V453000>80s from the first second I Feel like
03:43<andythenorth>pure Miami Vice
03:43<V453000>note that I was born in 1990 so I don't know fuck about 80s, I am just a cool kid listening to 'that old music' now
03:44<V453000>yeah I should go take shower and get back to making treehugs
03:44<V453000>fuck yeah
03:44<andythenorth>that LZRHWK song is pretty much Miami Vice theme :D
03:44<V453000>dem synths
03:44<andythenorth>fuck showering
03:45<andythenorth>gets in way of work and internet
03:45<V453000>mainly the latter is obviously critically important
03:45<V453000>well, shower & hugs
03:45<V453000>ok, work after, I promis
03:57-!-Rokstap [~oftc-webi@] has joined #openttd
03:57-!-Rokstap is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #openttd
03:57<Rokstap>Good day, I would like to know how to drive cheat codes just I play through the phone ПЕРЕВЕСТИ
03:59-!-Rokstap [~oftc-webi@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:03-!-supermop_home [] has joined #openttd
04:03-!-supermop_home is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
04:05-!-supermop_home_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
04:09<crem>what.. Release of 'Cook Serve Delicious 2' is delayed :( It should have been released today!
04:28<andythenorth>V453000: this LZRHWK album has now gone full on Kraftwerk :o
04:29-!-Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
04:29-!-Wolf01 is "Wolf01" on #openttd
04:29<V453000> moar huggin
04:29<V453000>yeah that's possible
04:30<andythenorth>V453000: super geometries
04:30<andythenorth>geometrees :(
04:30<andythenorth>bad pun
04:30<Wolf01>NotTrees would be cool
04:31<Wolf01>Tell the game at which height a tree could be built, which terrain, remove logic from game
04:32<andythenorth>win win win
04:32-!-debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:418b:1400:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
04:32<andythenorth>also no need for multiple tree building algorithms
04:32<andythenorth>move the algorithm to script
04:32<andythenorth>one less combinatorial thing
04:33<V453000>sure and support for 64 tree growth stages so there isn't so little sprites for trees
04:33<Wolf01>Algorithm per-tree
04:33<V453000>an control over framerate of each tree
04:33<V453000>fuck yeah
04:33<andythenorth>why not :P
04:33<@peter1138>ini files
04:33<andythenorth>except such map space
04:33<andythenorth>hey look a peter1138
04:33<Wolf01>Tree changes with season? O_O
04:34<andythenorth>peter1138: V453000 sent me this thing which is like all the 1980s in one album
04:34<@peter1138>i put skull & shark on first
04:35<andythenorth>oh now it’s gone Daft Punk
04:35<V453000>tree changes with local slug mood based on annual slug referendum at local steel mills?
04:35<andythenorth>DP isn’t 1980s :P
04:35<Wolf01>andythenorth: prepare a spec?
04:35<andythenorth>V453000: way too much politics
04:35<andythenorth>Wolf01: what does current tree algorithm do?
04:35<andythenorth>is it a tile loop, visited periodically?
04:36<andythenorth>any spec will have to get through an inevitable “is this just newobjects” step :P
04:36<andythenorth>shall we do it now?
04:36<Wolf01>Checks for other trees, plants new trees semi-random-based
04:36<andythenorth>is NoTrees just an extension of NewObjects?
04:36<Wolf01>Could be
04:37<andythenorth>wrong answer :)
04:37<andythenorth>trees is trees
04:37<Wolf01>But trees have far more impact than standard objects, so no
04:37<andythenorth>we don’t need to be planting objects all over the map randomly
04:37-!-debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:418b:1400:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has joined #openttd
04:37-!-debdog is "Wowbagger" on #openttd
04:40<Celestar>hm .. it's been a while since a fetched the repo O-o
04:40<@peter1138>not much changed i bet
04:40<andythenorth>it’s a Celestar
04:41<Celestar>haha :)
04:41<Celestar>it hasn't, peter1138?
04:41<V453000>:000 :P
04:41<@peter1138>just guessing
04:41<Wolf01>Somebody wants to review this? Beware: long patch of find & replace
04:41<andythenorth>so how do pull requests work then? o_O
04:42<@peter1138>someone says "pull pls"
04:43<Celestar>it still is on svn :P
04:45<Celestar>how ya been?
04:46<V453000>andythenorth: apparently the best way to keep developers around is so start closing a shitload of FS tickets so everyone starts caring again about their ancient glorious ideas XD
04:47<andythenorth>makes it seem like shit is happening eh?
04:47<andythenorth>nobody wants to wade through 840 things that are badly categorised, badly titled
04:47<V453000>just reopen the tickets in 2 months and then go for another round
04:47<andythenorth>just close 200 of the 436 remaining
04:47<V453000>iz plan I promise
04:47<andythenorth>see who comes here to complain
04:47<andythenorth>have a chat with them
04:48*Celestar hates svn
04:49<andythenorth>get the git
04:49<andythenorth>there’s even a github remote or something
04:49<crem>Visual SourceSafe!
04:49<Wolf01>I use VSS :P
04:49<andythenorth>dunno how the github syncs, if it’s just one way
04:50<andythenorth>bit limiting for pull requests eh?
04:50<Celestar>Visual SourceWhatCrap?
04:50<crem>For personal repository, it's proper two-way sync.
04:50<Wolf01>Oh god... SimYouLater answered to "what is ottd today?"
04:50<Wolf01>Wall of text
04:51<andythenorth>don’t reply
04:51<andythenorth>I asked if it can be locked
04:51<Celestar>I cannot possibly believe that Microsoft is able to produce a useful RCS.
04:51<Wolf01>I don't think I want to read it either
04:51<andythenorth>it’s worth reading, but not replying
04:52<andythenorth>it contains so much wrong, that I think there are mental health issues of some kind
04:52<andythenorth>or something like that
04:52<andythenorth>I thought of at least 10 replies so far, but they all seem like bullying or showboating
04:53<Wolf01>If only we had a quote system or even hyperlinks to be able to get the question he answered...
04:53<andythenorth>I also had some preliminary PM previews of that post
04:53<Wolf01><andythenorth> it contains so much wrong, that I think there are mental health issues of some kind <- yes, he said that already in NRT topic
04:54<andythenorth>I got a personal edition sent directly
04:55-!-Biolunar [] has joined #openttd
04:55-!-Biolunar is "Biolunar" on #openttd #suckless
04:56<Wolf01>Ok, since he replied for every post, I could just put 2 browser windows side by side
04:56<V453000>well I better go to work, but geometreehugs is a lot of fun
04:56<andythenorth>V453000 same here
04:56<andythenorth>you should keep that name btw
04:56<Wolf01>Same h... not :(
04:57<andythenorth>bug count increased :(
04:57<V453000> :)
04:58<V453000>also I plan to go wild with toyland trees
04:58<V453000>I should probably go. :D
05:02-!-andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
05:03<@peter1138>nice tree
05:06<@peter1138>hmm, over compression is getting to me on that skull & shark album
05:11<LordAro>peter1138: you know bikes
05:41-!-andythenorth [~andytheno@] has joined #openttd
05:41-!-andythenorth is "andythenorth" on #openttd
05:41<LordAro>peter1138: want a road bike. ~£800. any thoughts?
05:43<Alkel_U3>Speaking of bikes, does anyone know about a simple front hub with 36 holes and 74mm dropout? I can't find any and fear I'll have to replace the whole fork :/
05:44<@peter1138>LordAro, depends what it'll be for
05:44<@peter1138>36 holes on the front? that's a lot
05:44-!-Celestar [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:45<LordAro>peter1138: largely commuting, but the occasional "event" type thing (hopefully with increasing frequency)
05:45<crem>bikes? Are there bikes in openttd? For transport of pizza it's good.
05:45<@peter1138> < only 28 holes on those :S
05:47<andythenorth>crem: o_O
05:47<Alkel_U3>yeah, maybe I'll try to stick with 28h for now but with the amount of potholes I meet I'd perhaps be happiest with replacing the front wheel for a rounded stone slab
05:48<andythenorth>you need a tweel
05:49<Alkel_U3>I'd definitely need a larger fork for that :D
05:50<LordAro>peter1138: i've been looking at Whyte & PlanetX
05:54<@peter1138>planetx london road is alright
05:54<@peter1138>bit over 800 though
05:55<@peter1138>ribble have a few sub £800 builds
05:56-!-Celestar [] has joined #openttd
05:56-!-Celestar is "purple" on #openttd
06:00<@peter1138>they let you choose bits as well
06:10-!-Celestar [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:11<Alkel_U3>*sigh* there are no double-walled 406-19 28h rims either, apparently
06:11<Alkel_U3>so the hubs that would fit into my forks are only up to 28h but the rims that I like are mostly 36h
06:16<Alkel_U3>I would sum it up like that, yes
06:17<@peter1138>sounds and looks nasty
06:18<Alkel_U3>I'd rather go with a new fork than that :-)
06:20-!-Celestar [] has joined #openttd
06:20-!-Celestar is "purple" on #openttd
06:21<Alkel_U3>I want the wheel to not go aut of true easily and this doesn't look that well balanced (but I've already considered this option, too :-) )
06:22<@peter1138>i guess you have a specific rim in mind though
06:25<Alkel_U3>since I'm not able to find any combination of what I ideally want this is probably the best I've seen so far, so thanks
06:25<@peter1138>if you go back to the category there's a few others there
06:26<@peter1138>also one with *7* holes
06:29<Alkel_U3>that wold get decimated quickly. MTBs are a suitable and not very impractical type of bike in Prague :-)
06:30<Alkel_U3>this one actually has the combination of rim and hub I want but I probably won't spend so much on it :-)]
06:34<@peter1138>also search ebay for dahon wheel 36 spoke
06:34<@peter1138>or just 20" wheel
06:36<Alkel_U3>Good idea, I forgot to check prebuilt wheels
06:46-!-FLHerne [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:49-!-FLHerne [] has joined #openttd
06:49-!-FLHerne is "Francis Herne" on #openttd
07:00-!-JacobD88 [] has joined #openttd
07:00-!-JacobD88 is "JacobD88" on #openttd.notice #openttd
07:01<_dp_>V453000, nice tree, reminded me of
07:05-!-JacobD88 [] has quit []
07:07<_dp_>might not be a bad idea to turn some magic staffs back into trees actually xD
07:12<andythenorth>maybe I can close 50 more FS tasks, based on date opened
07:19<V453000>who will it summon?
07:20<andythenorth>dunno :)
07:21<andythenorth>118 of them eh
07:27<Wolf01>Mass close them
07:31<Wolf01> <- close? Or implement
07:36-!-supermop_home [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:37<andythenorth>does it not completely spank performance?
07:37*andythenorth would expect serious FAIL with that patch
07:38-!-supermop [] has joined #openttd
07:38-!-supermop is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
07:40<_dp_>andythenorth, isn't it the same as dragging map window to full screen size?
07:40<_dp_>andythenorth, performance-wise
07:40<andythenorth>that is a shitload of things to try and draw
07:41<andythenorth>Wolf01: did you test the patch?
07:44<@peter1138>have we got infinite size maps yet?
07:44<andythenorth>peter1138 FS 4947 - daft?
07:45<andythenorth>we already have performance issues
07:45<andythenorth>and we have giant maps
07:45<@peter1138>there's a patch isn't there?
07:45<andythenorth>and we have a bunch of bug reports about 4k screens
07:45<@peter1138>yeah it links to it, MJP's zoom out
07:45<andythenorth>128x zoom out on a 4k screen
07:45<andythenorth>on a 4096x4096 map
07:45<andythenorth>with 5k trains
07:45<andythenorth>bug reports that it’s slow?
07:46<FLHerne>Well, it looks like it drops back to a minimap level of detail
07:46<@peter1138>also don't draw vehicles beyond a certain level, etc, etc
07:46<FLHerne>So no newgrf sprite lookups or animations or any of that nonsense
07:46*peter1138 wanders for lunch
07:46<andythenorth>fix :P
07:47<FLHerne>Aargh, I just called realismfeatures 'nonsense'. You're infecting my minds. :-/
07:47<@peter1138>it was bollocks
07:48<@peter1138>i should just make a debian 9 vm on windows
07:48<@peter1138>then i can dev on ottd again
07:49<@peter1138>windows is too painful :p
07:49<@peter1138>but games
07:50<andythenorth>le sigh
07:50<Celestar>Windows is a good gaming platform
07:50<Celestar>too bad it's completely useless for anything else.
07:51-!-supermop_home [] has joined #openttd
07:51-!-supermop_home is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
07:51-!-cHawk [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
07:52-!-cHawk [] has joined #openttd
07:52-!-cHawk is "realname" on #openttd #tor
07:52*andythenorth lives on an OS that’s not actually good at anything
07:53<_dp_>andythenorth, I heard it's good for video editing
07:54-!-supermop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:03*andythenorth misses Mac OS 8
08:04<andythenorth>it sometimes went nearly a whole hour before crashing hard
08:06-!-supermop_home_ [] has joined #openttd
08:06-!-supermop_home_ is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
08:11-!-supermop_home [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:17<FLHerne>Yay, I remember that
08:18<FLHerne>On the other hand, avoiding the need for any sort of Linux bootloader was a convenient feature
08:19<FLHerne>Just start the kernel from a MacOS application, overwrite the OS in memory, carry on...
08:24<ST2>that moment you make google costumers active:
08:24<ST2>[13:17:24] <~ST2> !say Trivia of the day: Who was the 1st female locopilot (train driver) of the Indian Railways?
08:24<ST2>[13:18:18] <+ttd-srv1> BladiN (Spectator): Surekha Yadav
08:24<ST2>[13:18:43] <~ST2> !say and BladiN won the cake: Surekha Yadav is correct ;)
08:24<ST2>[13:18:48] <+ttd-srv1> BladiN (Spectator): woho
08:33<Flygon><Celestar> too bad it's completely useless for anything else.
08:33<Flygon>As an artist, it's good for art. :V
08:33<Flygon>While also catering for needs OSX doesn't do. :VVV
08:33<Celestar>As a dev, it's completely shit.
08:34<Flygon>Hell, Paint Tool SAI doesn't even support OSX.
08:34<Flygon>(A shame it's not cross-platform. Japanese dev. =/_
08:34-!-supermop_home_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:35<Flygon>(On the other hand the 32-bit Paint Tool SAIs officially support Windows 98. This's a modern art application that's still extremely widely used, and updated.)
08:37-!-supermop [] has joined #openttd
08:37-!-supermop is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
08:38<andythenorth>"Fully support Intel MMX Technology"
08:39<Flygon>Very Japanese dev.
08:48<Alkel_U3>uh, 32-bit SAI once stung me by being 32bit. 10000×8000 canvas with many layers is best left to 64bit programs
08:49<Alkel_U3>I could save the file but I had to start by merging the tiniest layers first as it didn't even have enough memory to merge the fuller ones
08:50<Alkel_U3>I'd still like to use it on linux but wine doesn't hand its applications pressure and such from tablets :/
09:01<Flygon>Hahaha yeah.
09:01<Flygon>I can't wait for the 64-bit version to be prim and proper.
09:01-!-supermop [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:02<Flygon>I haven't hit the RAM limit for a while for... erm, a rather stupid reason.
09:02<Flygon>SAI is an amazing pixel art editor with the binary brush.
09:04<Alkel_U3>I bought Aseprite for pixelart, it's quite good IMHO
09:06-!-supermop_home [] has joined #openttd
09:06-!-supermop_home is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
09:06<Flygon>Ahh, I purchased it then... never used it for some reason.
09:09<Flygon>Does Aseprite actually support limiting RGB adjustments to certain ranges?
09:09<Alkel_U3>I know a guy who's been doing digital painting in GIMP for years and refuses to switch to anything more sane for being used to it. Might be similar reason :-)
09:10<Alkel_U3>I'm not sure what that means precisely
09:10<Flygon>It'd be useful to have a mode where you don't have an overall palette.
09:10<Flygon>But the RGB steps are limited to certain places.
09:10<Flygon>For example, with the Mega Drive hardware's RGB DAC operating the way it is, it's actually non-linear.
09:11<Flygon>So, with shadow/highlight mode turned off (which adds a layer of weirdness to the analog output - the S/H process is 100% analog), the RGB steps go in terms of 0, 52, 87, 116, 144, 172, 206, 255
09:12<Flygon>Now, it's nice and all I memorized the non-linear input, but it's a pain in the ass to type in or manually slide the colour adjuster to those exact numbers hahaha.
09:13<Alkel_U3>well, it does have a shading tool where you can specify exact indexes for steps
09:14<Flygon>Yeah, that's closeish, but not quite.
09:14<Flygon>So far, my best bet has been doing the colours in SAI, using the (inaccurate) 36 step method, simply due to being easier to input the colours for.
09:15<Flygon>And hoping the non-linear distortion by the actual DAC doesn't look too off.
09:16<Wolf01>I tried to use but I'm not good at pixel art :P
09:18<Flygon>aaa those example arts bother me hahaha.
09:18<Flygon>They look way too 'pixel arty'. :D
09:21-!-supermop_home_ [] has joined #openttd
09:21-!-supermop_home_ is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
09:23<Alkel_U3>I also used to use i.Mage for my first TTD pixelart attempts about 10 years ago but when I came back to it recently I couldn't comprehend how I used to be able to control it efficiently :-)
09:26<Alkel_U3>also in the pixelart studio's gallery there are apparently people who like giving others epileptic seizures
09:26-!-supermop_home [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:26<Wolf01>Mmmh, must reboot
09:26-!-Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
09:27<Flygon>That 'Cool Laser Gun :P' looks like it's... uhm...
09:27<Flygon> Spiderman's webslinger.
09:28-!-Alberth [] has joined #openttd
09:28-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
09:28-!-Alberth is "purple" on @#openttd
09:30-!-Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
09:30-!-Wolf01 is "Wolf01" on #openttd
09:30<Alkel_U3>I'd rather think GTA2's electrogun
09:34<Flygon>I mean the way it shoots.
09:34<Flygon>It's like a viscousious fluid.
09:34<Alkel_U3>oh yeah, sure
09:37<Flygon>Yeah, we're on the same page now. Hahaha.
09:37<Flygon>Maybe I should just send the Aseprite guys an email.
09:50-!-frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
09:50-!-frosch123 is "frosch" on #openttdcoop.devzone #openttd
09:52-!-sim-al2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:55<andythenorth>hi frosch123
09:56<frosch123>i cleaned up my mailbox
09:58<V453000>was there spam about fs tasks ?:P
09:59<@Alberth>nah, it was all good news, everything is done :)
09:59<frosch123>i'll likely ignore the pm requests and just consider fs broken wrt that
09:59<frosch123>anyway, i started a new todo list, it already has 25 items ...
10:00<ST2>25 items ...?! that's rookie numbers xD
10:00<frosch123>well, the old one had 150?
10:00<ST2>oh ^^
10:01<frosch123>i only added recent stuff
10:01<ST2>ok, give my words back :D
10:01<@Alberth>perhaps let andy loose on the list :p
10:01<@Alberth>ie hand it to andy, likely it gets reduced to 1/4th :)
10:02<andythenorth>I emailed James1101 and asked him if he ever joins irc
10:02-!-Flygon [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:02<andythenorth>he has filed a few quite detailed reports / diagnoses
10:02<andythenorth>there are a few other people who might be good contributors
10:03<andythenorth>FS has been dying on its arse for a couple of years
10:03<andythenorth>it’s all Alberth or frosch123, except when peter1138 took a run at it
10:03<Wolf01><frosch123> anyway, i started a new todo list, it already has 25 items ... <- want another one?
10:03<andythenorth>noticeably 4 years ago, there’s a lot more r*bidium, Z*u, michi etc
10:04<andythenorth>and a bit before that, hirund*, yex* etc
10:04<@Alberth>yep, RB closed loads of them
10:04<frosch123>Wolf01: another list? :p
10:04<Wolf01>I have that singleton patch to review
10:04<andythenorth>a lot of good comes from having more people test patches, and try to repro bugs
10:04<andythenorth>even if they don’t have commit rights
10:05<andythenorth>there are a few people like adf88 who post on FS a lot, but have no channel back to here
10:05<@peter1138>that bugs me with newgrf patches
10:05<@peter1138>newgrf authors don't test them
10:05<andythenorth>I get the ponies I want done by providing test newgrfs
10:05<andythenorth>otherwise…not happening
10:06<andythenorth>I also used to do the docs updates, until I got banned from the wiki
10:06<@peter1138>sometimes you get a "test" newgrf
10:06<@Alberth>andy: also because you discuss things at first, and make it work for everybody
10:06<@peter1138>but no explanation of what to test, or what result is wrong, or what the expected result it
10:07<@Alberth>which works much better than a random patch that some one wrote without checking if it's needed or desired
10:07<andythenorth>I want to burn the ‘suggestions frequently asked for’ in forums, and replace
10:07<andythenorth>also change the pinned topics in dev forum
10:07*andythenorth so many projects :P
10:07<andythenorth>I need a to-do list
10:07<@Alberth>maybe an issue tracker :p
10:07<frosch123>andy as forum moderator sounds dangerous :p
10:07<andythenorth>I am not wanting to be a mod
10:08<andythenorth>same reason as I don’t want commit rights
10:08<andythenorth>it scares me enough that I am admin on devzone
10:08<andythenorth>is that thread locked yet supermop_ ?
10:08<andythenorth>before any shit drama happens
10:08<andythenorth>who is forum mod?
10:08<supermop_>andythenorth: i know many friends who are now registered architects in New York who have declined to order their stamp
10:09<supermop_>because they have no interest in having people ask them to stamp drawings
10:09<supermop_>not worth the headache and liability
10:09<andythenorth>oh peter1138 is also mod :P
10:10<supermop_>they also don't include RA or AIA after their name, best to keep it discrete lest someone ask you to take professional responsibility for some pet project
10:11<andythenorth>peter1138: SimYouLater posted a long rambling odd post, and I think he has mental health issues
10:11<andythenorth>usually I’d say let the drama flow, but not in this case
10:12<andythenorth>me and MB were also joint recipients of some related PMs
10:12<andythenorth>probably best just locked :P
10:13<@peter1138>nobody is going to read it :p
10:18<@Alberth>indeed :)
10:20-!-debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:418b:1400:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
10:21<Wolf01>I read it along with the whole thread... and now I'm regretting it
10:22<frosch123>sounds like i should not regret to not have read forums in 3 weeks :p
10:22<frosch123>maybe 4 even
10:23<supermop_>but how will you see my new trams?
10:23<frosch123>you post them here all the time
10:24-!-debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:418b:1400:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has joined #openttd
10:24-!-debdog is "Wowbagger" on #openttd
10:25<frosch123>ok, i did not see the trucks yet
10:27<frosch123>so andy no longer has a monopoly on truck grfs
10:28<andythenorth>eh george has them too :)
10:28<andythenorth>and Zeph
10:28<V453000> /me planned to do them at some point
10:28<frosch123>george's are ancient, and zeph is a bus person iirc
10:28<V453000> /doesn't anymore :D
10:32<@Alberth>yeti flat wagon will work as bus too
10:36<frosch123>isn't that more like a rallye car?
10:38<andythenorth>so how does our github repo actually work then?
10:42<supermop_>i think i wil remove road trains
10:42<supermop_>too stupid
10:43<FLHerne>frosch123: eGRVTS has a lot of trucks
10:43<supermop_>compete with regular trains
10:43<supermop_>clutter the menu
10:44<supermop_>as i have a road train for every type
10:44<supermop_>yeah triples of regular box trailers exist but they feel odd in game
10:44<andythenorth>supermop_: I quite liked them
10:44<andythenorth>but they need a specific roster :P
10:45<supermop_>but arbitrarily saying only mineral trucks get road trains is also stupid
10:45<frosch123>FLHerne: egrvts is meh
10:45<andythenorth>in a generic, balanced roster, they’re way our of place
10:45<frosch123>(pure subjective answer)
10:45<supermop_>specific roster?
10:45<andythenorth>well you only have one :)
10:45-!-debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:418b:1400:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
10:45<andythenorth>rosters are a great tool for set design
10:45<FLHerne>frosch123: Agreed, that was a response to "and zeph is a bus person iirc"
10:45<andythenorth>even if you never implement them, you can design them on paper :)
10:45<andythenorth>it lets you put good ideas to one side because they just don’t fit
10:46<supermop_>i do think the shades of variations between rigid trucks, semis, and road trains needs more work
10:46<andythenorth>I concluded ‘trucks’
10:46<andythenorth>just one type
10:46<andythenorth>balancing different types is a fool’s errand
10:46<andythenorth>not even fun
10:46<FLHerne>It's rather like "OpenGFX++", but I don't like OGFX vehicle styling :P
10:46<andythenorth>if you want road trains, add a dedicated road type for them
10:46<supermop_>rather than the more realistic approach i have now which is, 'this is basically the same truck with slightly more hp, and two more trailers'
10:46<andythenorth>the choices in OpenTTD are about type of route you build
10:47<supermop_>FLHerne: opengfx++ was my design goal
10:47<andythenorth>*everyone* who is making ‘choose your optimal vehicle’ sets is…wrong
10:47<andythenorth>choose the type of route, then pick the vehicle that looks nicest
10:47<supermop_>original goals were 'add trolley buses to opengfx+' as proof of concept
10:47<supermop_>and 'maybe make the opengfx+ trams a bit better'
10:48<supermop_>i feel like i am closing in on that goal, but i accidentally added like 100 trucks in the process
10:48<andythenorth>ha ha
10:49<andythenorth>I set out to add industries to justify nodwells in HEQS
10:49<andythenorth>now look
10:49<supermop_>style aside, i like the concept of opengfx+ a lot: the vanilla vehicles with just a tad more maturity
10:50<supermop_>but i always wanted just a bit more
10:50-!-debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:418b:1400:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has joined #openttd
10:50-!-debdog is "Wowbagger" on #openttd
10:50<supermop_>in the meantime IH became my opengfx+ trains,
10:51<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27897 /trunk (4 files in 2 dirs) (2017-08-24 16:50:55 +0200 )
10:51<@DorpsGek>-Add [FS#6577]: Project file generator for kdevelop 4/5 (adf88)
10:51-!-Cubey [] has joined #openttd
10:51-!-Cubey is "Jaybar" on #openttd
10:52<supermop_>and RH would be my opengfx+ RVs, except NRT made me curious about electric trucks and diesel trams
10:52<supermop_>which were out of scope for RH, so i had to make my own Opengfx++
10:52<andythenorth>FIRS was invented to give the nodwells something to do
10:52<andythenorth>but I never added the nodwells to HEQS
10:52<andythenorth>now they only exist in FIRS :P
10:52<andythenorth>just one
10:53<andythenorth>supermop_: electric trucks aren’t out of scope for RH :)
10:53<andythenorth>I wanted someone else to test them out first
10:53*andythenorth prefers to steal
10:53<supermop_>andythenorth: i wanted them now
10:54<andythenorth>fair ;)
11:05-!-supermop [] has joined #openttd
11:05-!-supermop is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
11:08-!-supermop_home_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:09-!-Wormnest [] has joined #openttd
11:09-!-Wormnest is "Wormnest" on #openttd
11:12-!-synchris [~synchris@] has joined #openttd
11:12-!-synchris is "Synesios Christou" on #openttd
11:13<Wolf01>I'm bored, and I don't want to do anything :(
11:14<andythenorth>youtube + exercise bike
11:14<andythenorth>winning combo
11:14<andythenorth>after 2kms you’re bored of both, and want to do something
11:14<Wolf01>I'm already on netflix, and no space for exercise bike or anything else
11:19-!-debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:418b:1400:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
11:24<Alkel_U3>real bike, then?
11:25<andythenorth>outside? :o
11:26-!-debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:418b:1400:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has joined #openttd
11:26-!-debdog is "Wowbagger" on #openttd
11:33<@peter1138>outdoors + real bike
11:33<@peter1138>works for me
11:33<@peter1138>200km without getting bored :p
11:35-!-supermop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:35<crem>200km is a lot of YouTube videos..
11:35<Alkel_U3>with the advent of 20h loops it could be just one
11:37-!-supermop [] has joined #openttd
11:37-!-supermop is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
11:37<Alkel_U3>although if the intention was to actually >watch< the video, it might be more mercifull to just shoot self :-)
11:42<Wolf01>I don't like to do things alone, I get bored before even starting
11:42<frosch123>too early for ginger beer?
11:43*frosch123 should not advocate drinking probably
11:43<ST2>it's always time for beer... at least somewhere in the world xD
11:44<andythenorth>it’s time for beer or margaritas
11:49-!-supermop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:52<Wolf01><frosch123> too early for ginger beer? <- ginger *ale, the pub is closed for holiday
11:55-!-supermop [] has joined #openttd
11:55-!-supermop is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
11:55<@peter1138>eh, ginger beer is a fizzy soft drink
11:56<andythenorth>what is it for ?
11:56<frosch123>i have no idea about the difference between beer and ale
11:57<@peter1138>ginger ale is also a slightly fizzy drink, usually used a mixer for cheap whisky or such like
11:58<@peter1138>neither resemble beer or ale
11:58<Alkel_U3>well, "ale" is usually a more bitter style of beer
11:59<Alkel_U3>not very common or traditional around here, I discovered that it's a thing only about 5 years ago
12:00<frosch123>wiki lists 22 types of making beer
12:02<Alkel_U3>yeah, gotta drink them all :-)
12:03<frosch123>i heard like 9 of them, though 3 of them i considered the same :p
12:05<andythenorth>@seen adf88
12:05<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: adf88 was last seen in #openttd 4 weeks, 2 days, 18 hours, 33 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <adf88> we are in a middle of a coup, interesting times... ;/
12:05<frosch123>andythenorth: adf usually joins .dev
12:05<frosch123>he's the only one to use that channel though :p
12:05<andythenorth>I stopped joing .dev
12:05<andythenorth>also coop
12:05<andythenorth>I used to enjoy coop
12:06<frosch123>yeah, noone around anymore
12:07<andythenorth>it was like the back channel on the back channel
12:07<andythenorth>is #tycoon still a thing?
12:07-!-supermop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:07<andythenorth>or whatever the other place was
12:07<frosch123>no, i think this is the only place left
12:08<andythenorth>coop died when Ammler and planetmaker stopped posting much there :)
12:08<@planetmaker>yeah... kinda :|
12:08<andythenorth>(the channel, not coop as a concept)
12:10<supermop_>#tycoon is mostly just my home laptop joining and quitting
12:12<supermop_>andythenorth: ginger beer is for making dark and stormies, or moscow mules, etc
12:13<supermop_>ginger ale is more commonly consumed on its own or sometimes as a mixer, it is less strong in ginger flavor
12:13*andythenorth biab
12:13-!-andythenorth [~andytheno@] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
12:13-!-supermop [] has joined #openttd
12:13-!-supermop is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
12:13<supermop_>ginger beer is somewhat 'spicy' due to being so gingery
12:15-!-Gja [] has joined #openttd
12:15-!-Gja is "Martin" on #bcache #openttd
12:21-!-Maraxus [] has joined #openttd
12:21-!-Maraxus is "Maraxus" on #openttd #factoriocoop @#openttdcoop.stable @#openttdcoop
12:27-!-Maraxus [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 54.0.1/20170628075643]]
12:37-!-debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:418b:1400:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
12:40-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
12:40-!-andythenorth is "andythenorth" on #openttd
12:41<LordAro>supermop_: speaking of, you should get a bouncer
12:41<V453000>I will bounce on you all night
12:41<V453000>just for $20
12:42<supermop_>i could just turn my laptop off when i am not home
12:42-!-debdog [] has joined #openttd
12:42-!-debdog is "Wowbagger" on #openttd
12:43<andythenorth>what does it all mean? o_O
12:46<frosch123>LordAro: a bouncer is a grave
12:46-!-Progman [] has joined #openttd
12:46-!-Progman is "Peter Henschel" on #openttdcoop #openttd
12:46<LordAro>frosch123: not if you put it on a server you actually maintain
12:46<LordAro>or a server *someone* maintains
12:47<frosch123>i just go by what is common here :p
12:50<supermop_>ok go to korea and japan for two weeks on saturday
12:50<supermop_>should i 'release' RVs before then?
12:51<andythenorth>do an RC :P
12:51<supermop_>wont have other tram styles drawn before then but i could fix running costs and smoke effects
12:51<andythenorth>or a beta
12:51<supermop_>was thinking last night about parcel trams etc
12:51<andythenorth>frosch123: so can I stop typing yex* and just let my autocomplete bother his bouncer? :)
12:52-!-supermop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:52<supermop_>so andythenorth does RH mean no more heqs style locomotives?
12:53<supermop_>not sure if i should draw little tram dummies or tiny tank engines and shuntrs
12:54<andythenorth>there are source images showing prototypes for all things
12:54<andythenorth>draw what looks good :)
12:54-!-supermop [] has joined #openttd
12:54-!-supermop is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
12:56<_dp_>andythenorth, 6614 is a small improvement that will make it easier to compile openttd in some weird ways :)
12:56<andythenorth>how can it be tested?
12:58<_dp_>good question :)
12:58<_dp_>I have a vague idea how to do that but only on linux
12:58<andythenorth>some projects have a ‘to test’ convention for patches
12:59<andythenorth>with instructions
12:59<frosch123>just apply some prejustice
12:59<frosch123>it's an adf patch, so it probably works, you need to check for style and whether it fits/contradicts existing things
13:00<_dp_>andythenorth, in this case I guess it would be 'to test setup this weird cross-compiling environment"
13:00*andythenorth won’t do that then
13:01<andythenorth>Wolf01: NoTrees spec draft? o_O
13:01<Wolf01>Why not?
13:01<_dp_>andythenorth, though you can test that it doesn't break anything for compiling in normal environments :)
13:01<andythenorth>I’d need a normal environment for that :)
13:02*andythenorth tests
13:02<Wolf01>Meh, I wanted to try that zoom patch, but I'm not going to apply 30 patches
13:02<andythenorth>it’s not clean
13:02<andythenorth>people should fork on github
13:03<andythenorth>branches > patches
13:03<frosch123>ottd pushed the idea of mq in the past :)
13:03<andythenorth>that went…well? :)
13:03<Wolf01>BTW, I have that singleton patch on hold which I don't want to commit
13:03<frosch123>for everyone but you iirc
13:04<andythenorth>yeah, that figures :)
13:04<frosch123>"andy and hg" certainly has some dark memories in this channel :p
13:04<andythenorth>it’s ok, once I got used to the ‘save a diff, destroy your repo, re-clone and apply diff’ hg workflow :)
13:05<andythenorth>I have about the same with git and ‘reset —hard’, it just uses less bandwidth :P
13:05<andythenorth>so where are the tree algorithms
13:08<andythenorth>6614 builds ok on OS X btw
13:08<andythenorth>for vanilla compile
13:09<andythenorth>Wolf01: ok so CanPlantTreesOnTile() <- move to newgrf cb
13:09<andythenorth>GetRandomTreeType() <- move to newgrf cb
13:09<andythenorth>PlaceTree() can’t tell what that does yet
13:09<frosch123>make a profile how often it is caleld
13:10<andythenorth>that’s like saying ‘andythenorth fly a rocket to the moon’ :)
13:10<andythenorth>I could
13:10<andythenorth>but it’s a moon shot
13:10<andythenorth>might take time :P
13:10<andythenorth>PlaceTreeGroups() can’t see why newgrf would need to control that
13:12<andythenorth>hmm, does newgrf need to know what’s building the tree?
13:12<andythenorth>player / map gen / tile loop / SE
13:12<frosch123>company coloured trees? :p
13:12<andythenorth>is there an owner bit?
13:12<Wolf01>PlaceTreeGroups just calls PlaceTree for an area
13:12<andythenorth>does newgrf get to refuse ClearTile_Trees() ?
13:13<andythenorth>protected trees?
13:13-!-gelignite [] has joined #openttd
13:13-!-gelignite is "gelignite" on #openttd #openttdcoop.devzone
13:13*andythenorth thinks that can be in NoTrees 2
13:13<andythenorth>not 1
13:13<frosch123>i am sure the transmitter-haters will love indestructible trees
13:13<andythenorth>awesome eh?
13:14<andythenorth>how does the lumber mill interact with indestructible trees? o_O
13:14<andythenorth>perhaps indestructible trees is…not needed :)
13:14<frosch123>andythenorth: they bribe the authority
13:15<andythenorth>I can’t think of a way to have newgrf plant the trees near a lumber mill, if any
13:15<andythenorth>it seems like in the tile loop, the newgrf should be able to count lumber mills, and choose to plant the tree(s) near them if > 0
13:15<andythenorth>but I don’t think it works
13:16<andythenorth>hmm, TileLoopTreesAlps() and so on
13:16<andythenorth>bit specialist
13:16<andythenorth>so the key thing for NoTrees: can the newgrf influence which tiles are selected for planting trees during gameplay?
13:17<andythenorth>or is it only able to say yes / no to tiles presented by OpenTTD in the tileloop
13:18<frosch123>what is your actual goal?
13:18-!-Gja [] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (]
13:18<andythenorth>we had a nice name
13:18<andythenorth>or better, NoTrees
13:19<andythenorth>kind of started from there
13:19<Eddi|zuHause>gotta start with a good name. almost half the work done.
13:20<frosch123>invent some new noise functions for multi-dimensional desert/tropic-like areas
13:20<frosch123>add variables for height and landscape-zone, and make it nolandscape
13:20<frosch123>just don't add any states
13:21<andythenorth>more seriously
13:21<frosch123>only pseudo-random variables, and global animation-status with possibly pseudo-random offset
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>... and snow+desert on the same map.
13:21<andythenorth>- move all trees to newgrf
13:21<andythenorth>- both appearance and control
13:21<andythenorth>- one less map gen setting
13:21<andythenorth>- people *will* make grfs, look at all the station sets, despite nfo station spec being awful
13:22<andythenorth>- less code, especially less ‘two options’ code
13:22<andythenorth>- more control, over e.g. ‘tree line in arctic’ type stuff
13:22<andythenorth>- also un-break tropic :P
13:22<frosch123>maybe we can get V to make higher-variety landscape sprites
13:23<frosch123>and maybe we can also get him to steal the mapgen from F :p
13:23<andythenorth>a tree spec would get abused
13:23<andythenorth>people would use it to randomly place sprites from newobjects
13:23<andythenorth>but eh, so what?
13:23<Eddi|zuHause>i thought that was the entire point, something like newobjects, but more automatic randomness
13:24<andythenorth>well yes
13:24<andythenorth>but let’s just spec it to replace trees
13:24<andythenorth>designing for emergent behaviour, not necessary :)
13:24<andythenorth>will happen anyway
13:24<frosch123>andythenorth: also figure out how to mark areas as tree-active
13:24<andythenorth>o_O ?
13:25<frosch123>no need to simulate tree growth/dieing in areas no player ever touched
13:25-!-glx [] has joined #openttd
13:25-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
13:25-!-glx is "Loïc GUILLOUX" on +#openttd
13:25<frosch123>instead keep track of areas where players bulldoze, and make plants re-takeover them
13:26<andythenorth>oh there’s tree die-off and growth eh
13:26*andythenorth forgot that
13:26<andythenorth>on anything except small maps, that’s overkill :)
13:26<Eddi|zuHause>keep a balance between growth/death of trees, but also regenerate areas that are cleared
13:26<frosch123>it's one of those things which likely no modern game does
13:26<andythenorth>wrong level of detail
13:26<frosch123>too much stateful-stuff
13:27<andythenorth>could be simulated with animation :P
13:27<andythenorth>on a random trigger and long frame loop
13:27<Eddi|zuHause>citie skylines is fun, it remembers the trees when you build over them, and restores them if you destroy it
13:27<frosch123>are you sure it "remembers" them?
13:28<frosch123>or does it rather create them folowing the same random seed
13:28<Eddi|zuHause>i think it also restores manually placed trees
13:28<andythenorth>what’s the view on moving core functionality to openttd.grf or similar?
13:29<andythenorth>so that the game ships with stuff provide, but not in c++
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: openttd.grf is not a newgrf
13:29<andythenorth>provided *
13:30<Eddi|zuHause>that's like an oxymoron :p
13:30<andythenorth>can’t move default industries to external grf :P
13:31*andythenorth thinking out loud
13:31<andythenorth>newgrfs often depend on default industries in core
13:32<frosch123>i think that's the same in most modded games
13:32<frosch123>just because you play bob's mods in f, you do not disable the base set
13:33<frosch123>at least it was like that the single time i dared to look what those mods were about
13:33<frosch123>before i ran away screaming
13:33<Eddi|zuHause>haha :p
13:33<andythenorth>it’s probably the wrong target also :)
13:33*andythenorth would rather target dumb stuff, like how many signal types we have :)
13:34<frosch123>(for context, "bob's mods" is like "firs extreme extreme")
13:34<andythenorth>I see :)
13:35<andythenorth>how do I test segfaults?
13:35<frosch123>i am sure i told the channel about the water -> salt, salt + water -> saltwater, saltwater->electrolysis-products chain
13:35<andythenorth>FIRS needs that level of detail
13:36<andythenorth>is there a ‘try to segfault’ button somewhere? :P
13:36<frosch123>andythenorth: you reproduce it, and give precise steps and possibly a stack-backtrace including parameter values
13:36<frosch123>andythenorth: alt+0
13:37<frosch123>or was that removed?
13:37<frosch123>you can also use the console: killall -6 openttd
13:37<Alkel_U3>I just tried sharing my beer by pouring it into the keyboard, did any get through?
13:37<@Alberth>not that I ever heard, but never tried it either
13:37<andythenorth>at work we built an app with a segfault button in it
13:37<andythenorth>but it wasn’t useful
13:39-!-Gja [] has joined #openttd
13:39-!-Gja is "Martin" on #bcache #openttd
13:40<supermop_>andythenorth: i was think last night about that sort or concept - of moving various 'world' things to newgrf
13:41<supermop_>like the means to generate towns
13:41<supermop_>where they go, which are cities, etc
13:41<andythenorth>some kind of town or economy script
13:41<andythenorth>like TownControl, or GS :P
13:41<frosch123>yexo once had a squirrel-mapgen
13:41<supermop_>if it was in newgrf you could have arbitrarily many different ways to spawn towns without having to patch game
13:41<frosch123>it took ages though
13:42<supermop_>currently if you don't like the way the game places towns, there really isn't anything to do about it
13:42<andythenorth>GS or similar seems like a bad way to do it
13:42<andythenorth>no callbacks
13:42<andythenorth>but newgrf…might be horrible :P
13:43<andythenorth>but I can place industries pretty well
13:43<frosch123>gs are for active things, newgrf for reactive
13:43<frosch123>or something
13:43<supermop_>maybe you want them kind of close to water, or maybe you want the cities to have exactly 8 small towns surrounding them for some kind of MP style, idk
13:44<supermop_>maybe its neither newgrf nor gs, but something, whatever it is that you download from bananas and chose at will
13:44<andythenorth>GS is for goals
13:44<andythenorth>in practical application so far
13:44<frosch123>andythenorth: there is a build-roads-gs
13:45<andythenorth>is there?
13:45<andythenorth>I just use pikka’s annoying AI for that :)
13:45<supermop_>believe so
13:45<frosch123>by pikka even?
13:45<frosch123>hmm, was it just an ai?
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27898 trunk/src/lang/dutch.txt (2017-08-24 19:45:40 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>dutch: 18 changes by habell
13:45<andythenorth>roads and buses
13:46<andythenorth>grows towns, blocks my train stations
13:46*andythenorth has it in most games
13:46<supermop_>andythenorth: realistic
13:47<supermop_>just like the old railroad day - have to race to build your terminals before the city gets too big for them to fit
13:47<Eddi|zuHause><frosch123> i am sure i told the channel about the water -> salt, salt + water -> saltwater, saltwater->electrolysis-products chain <-- that sounds almost like the guys who buy pink flamingos and paint them blue, and the other guys who buy blue flamingos and paint them pink
13:47<Eddi|zuHause>i totally forgot where that was from, though
13:47<frosch123>sounds like gender studies
13:47<andythenorth>ham: 1 month out of date. Fine?
13:48<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: if that involves them changing after a certain date, it’s a philosophy problem
13:48<frosch123>depends whether it was already 1 month out of date when it was repackaged :p
13:50<andythenorth>probably not
13:50<andythenorth>tasted fine
13:50<andythenorth>so NoTrees
13:51-!-supermop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:51<@Alberth>no supermop
13:51<andythenorth>NoLandscape (terrain geneator) is appealing, but might be too slow if not in core
13:52<frosch123>andythenorth: only goal servers would be interested in noeconomy, and they complani that newgrf are too complicated for their users
13:52<@Alberth>make it configururable
13:52<andythenorth>frosch123: I know but we could delete smooth economy :D
13:52<andythenorth>also I would use it to control base industry production level
13:52<@Alberth>ie it's not only "all c++" or "all squirrel script", you can also do some at either side
13:52<andythenorth>which I can do in FIRS as a parameter setting for players, but not very interestingly
13:53<andythenorth>I wondered about NoDays
13:53<frosch123>i think on the todo list which i had before the 150-items one, there was an item to implement smooth economy as newgrf and then removing it from the base game
13:53<@Alberth>*both sides, probably
13:53<andythenorth>frosch123: I am +1 to that :P
13:53<frosch123>i only came around to remove the "original vehicle names" language
13:54<andythenorth>NoDays -> find all the places ticks might want to be changed, define them as constants via newgrf
13:54<@Alberth>nopenttd2.0, basically :p
13:54<andythenorth>Alberth: its NooooTTD
13:54<@Alberth>fair enough :)
13:54<andythenorth>from my discussions about daylength, the problem is not “it can’t work ever"
13:54<andythenorth>rather people want different things
13:54<andythenorth>one persons bug is another person’s key feature
13:55<andythenorth>more '
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>that is at least half the problem
13:55<andythenorth>let newgrf deal with that :P
13:55<@Alberth>having it configurable doesn't mean it will work :p
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>does really not sound like anything newgrf should be involved with
13:55-!-supermop [] has joined #openttd
13:55-!-supermop is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
13:55<andythenorth>plenty of newgrfs don’t work Alberth :D
13:56<@Alberth>wb supermop
13:56<supermop_>that one isn't me
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>we have a pretender!
13:56<@Alberth>or two supermops
13:56<supermop_>supermop is really supermopzuhause
13:57<supermop_>_ is supermopbeiarbeit?
13:57<supermop_>sometimes. sometimes it's the reverse
13:57<@Alberth>zumarbeit, I think
13:58-!-luxtram [~luxtram@] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
13:58-!-luxtram [~luxtram@] has joined #openttd
13:58-!-luxtram is "luxtram" on #openttd
13:58<frosch123>beiarbeit is better, but aufarbeit is the cool slang
13:59<_dp_>frosch123, my main complaint about newgrfs is that you need them for configuring core mechanics
13:59<_dp_>frosch123, it's fine to have newgrfs that add something substantial like firs
13:59<_dp_>frosch123, but having newgrf just to configure nogrf server is a huge no
14:00<frosch123>tl;dr; the opposite of what andy wants :p
14:01<_dp_>not quite :p
14:01<andythenorth>_dp_: got an alternate vision?
14:01<frosch123>not? andy wanted to move "no tree growth" to newgrf
14:01<andythenorth>as said before, configuring an MP game is so painful
14:01<andythenorth>I would play more 1hr MP goal games…but no
14:02<andythenorth>45 mins to make a map? Then Alberth has to go to bed before we finish :)
14:03<_dp_>andythenorth, it doesn't contradict anything. Extensible apis/callbacks/whatever are cool, just keep(move) core settings in(to) core game.
14:04<supermop_>_dp_: trees are already part of core game
14:04<andythenorth>_dp_: which settings?
14:04<supermop_>and there is no way to change them without a patch
14:06<_dp_>andythenorth, basecosts, industry chances, etc.
14:06<_dp_>there is literally no way to modify anything about default industry atm
14:06<_dp_>only replace it in newgrf
14:06-!-FLHerne [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:08<andythenorth>that would a hellish UI, for industries?
14:08<_dp_>oh, and btw, when thinking about moddable trees please keep in mind savegame explosion :p
14:08<_dp_>it's kind of a big issue actually
14:08<Wolf01>A what?
14:09<supermop_>_dp_: the vanilla industries don't have anything about them to change?
14:09<_dp_>Wolf01, about 3/4 of savegame size are trees
14:09<andythenorth>well…why? :)
14:09<@Alberth>too many tiles :p
14:10<Wolf01>_dp_: moving trees to grf won't touch the savegame
14:10<supermop_>_dp_: that's a good reason to allow better/more sensible tree generation styles, rather than the current uncompressible noise
14:10<@peter1138>so linux
14:11<@peter1138>so vim
14:11<@peter1138>so openttd dev environment
14:11<@peter1138>so what am i going to do?
14:11<Wolf01>Did you try to enable the linux subsystem on windows?
14:11<andythenorth>how many bits in the map for trees?
14:11*andythenorth looks
14:11<frosch123>andythenorth: tree data is just random data
14:12<_dp_>supermop_, core has to allow those styles first, if things get moved to newgrf like they are now it will only prevent the issue from even being fixed
14:12<frosch123>on (stupidly) huge maps, the map array has significant size compared to industry/vehicle/... data
14:13<supermop_>_dp_: trees aren't in newgrf at all now, only just sprite replacement
14:13<frosch123>map array however consists mostly of random data and is thus incompressible
14:13<Wolf01>_dp_: there are already those styles on the core, they need to be moved in grf
14:13<frosch123>solution: remove random bits from trees and make it all pseudo-random
14:13<Wolf01>So they can be changed easily
14:14<_dp_>Wolf01, there is nothing in core, just random noise
14:14<_dp_>so frosch123 is right, it has to be de-randomized
14:14*andythenorth counts bits
14:14<supermop_>what are we talking about?
14:14<@Alberth>just remove 2048 as size
14:14<@peter1138>^ +1
14:14<_dp_>andythenorth, it's not about bits, they just don't compress well
14:14<@peter1138>stupid sizes
14:14<andythenorth>_dp_: expand? :)
14:14<supermop_>if we have tree placement - random and treeplacement - hilltops only
14:15<supermop_>lets say
14:15<supermop_>in the game
14:15<andythenorth>are trees not deterministic?
14:15<andythenorth>or is it that it is poor for compression?
14:15<supermop_>andythenorth: no, i wish they were
14:15*andythenorth confused
14:15<_dp_>andythenorth, even right now if you change current noise to some reasonable pattern it greatly reduces savegame size
14:15<supermop_>worst for compression is noise
14:15<@Alberth>compression uses common patterns, and random noise has no common patterns
14:16<supermop_>_dp_: if we have the vanilla random trees, and then add in the game a 2nd, 3rd, nth pattern for placing trees
14:16<supermop_>how do we pick the n+1th pattern?
14:17<frosch123>supermop_: it's all fine if you make the random data static
14:17*andythenorth would have just used a byte on each tile, and let the newgrf figure it out
14:17<frosch123>i.e. something which you can compute no the fly, or recompute on game-load
14:17<supermop_>what if i make a style for placing trees that only plants trees right in front of player tracks
14:17<andythenorth>put some random bits in the tile
14:17<frosch123>but it cannot be part of the gamestate and change on user-interaction
14:17<supermop_>no one would agree to add that to trunk
14:17<_dp_>supermop_, it's not quite about adding patterns, patterns usually suck when drawn on grid (what essentially happens in game)
14:17<andythenorth>list which tiles have which random bytes :P
14:18<Wolf01>_dp_, frosch123: yes, the algorithm picks a random tree in a specific interval, just to not have the entire map covered with a single type of tree, it's not that random, also the algorithm tries to place similar trees near existing ones to create patches of the same type. The problem is that isn't really so effective, so you don't notice it and it seem random.
14:18<supermop_>so Mop's Tree Style can only be used if i learn to fork the game
14:18-!-HerzogDeXtEr [] has joined #openttd
14:18-!-HerzogDeXtEr is "purple" on #openttd
14:18<supermop_>currently the game has 'original' "improved" and "no trees"
14:18<frosch123>supermop_: you can also distinguish between user-built and random trees
14:19<frosch123>like: give trees the full state when they are manually places
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>supermop_: but to fork the game, don't you have to throw an SJW fit first?
14:19<frosch123>but give random trees just "this is a random tree", and do not store more
14:19<@Alberth>andy, trees have a life state counter, and they are placed not all at the same time, so they differ. Trees get sprinkled over the map, so you get eventually random life counter states at the same time
14:19<andythenorth>Alberth: that’s unneeded though
14:19<@Alberth>*same tile
14:19<supermop_>if we want ' even more improved trees'
14:19<andythenorth>one byte is 255 possible states? o_O
14:19<supermop_>do we add that to the core game?
14:19<Wolf01> <-
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: there should be no shortage of bytes in the map array for trees
14:20<@Alberth>256, but close enough :)
14:20<_dp_>Wolf01, it's not about how random algorithm actually is, what matters is that it's random enough to explode gzip
14:20<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: why is it that i have too look up sjw every time it is used, and then remember looking it up the last time?
14:20<andythenorth>eh just put a random byte in the tile then, and let the newgrf provide up to 256 tree layouts
14:21<andythenorth>it can even use more crap, like game month etc
14:21<Wolf01>_dp_: random or filled by meaningful numbers still the same bits
14:21<supermop_>frosch123: because you are fortunate enough to not live in america
14:21<andythenorth>that’ s quite enough variety
14:21<supermop_>Wolf01: your tree patch is exactly what i want
14:21<Wolf01>byte var = 0; or byte var = random(); use the same memory
14:21<andythenorth>we can drop m2 3..0 m5 7..6 m5 2..0
14:22<andythenorth>maybe others
14:22<supermop_>it is essentially a stylistic choice
14:22<supermop_>so why force it to be added as a patch
14:22<frosch123>andythenorth: the trick is to not put the random byte into the tile
14:22<_dp_>Wolf01, not after compression
14:22<frosch123>but to make that byte recomputable whenever it is needed
14:22<supermop_>what if i want a different style for some complex cactus ecosystem i add with catus.grf or whatever
14:22<andythenorth>frosch123: we can’t just store 16 lists of tiles? :P
14:22<frosch123>i..e. it can be random, but it cannot depend on game actions
14:23<Wolf01>_dp_: compression can be done with or without moving to grf
14:23<andythenorth>no, andythenorth can’t count :(
14:23<supermop_>like lets say instead of no trees on mountain tops i want only trees on mountain tops
14:23<andythenorth>256 lists of tiles :P
14:23<andythenorth>can’t we hash it, based on tile location, height?
14:23<andythenorth>or just x,y
14:23<andythenorth>and the map seed?
14:23<frosch123>supermop_: that still does not require storing the result
14:24<frosch123>you can recompute that
14:24<andythenorth>if we hash it, we can recompute
14:24<Wolf01>supermop_: yes, it's a stylistic choice, that's why I'm fine with moving it to grf, also because with a grf you can control better which tree you want at a given height, with core I don't know the difference
14:24<frosch123>the only thing you cannot recompute is whether this tile was bulldozed 50 years ago
14:24*andythenorth is having ‘my first programming’ moment :P
14:24<supermop_>so what i suggest is that in addition to the current built in tree placement rules, we allow grf to add rule sets like Wolf01's
14:25*andythenorth suggests dropping the existing rules, and breaking backwards compatibility, but harmlessly
14:25<andythenorth>no kittens die
14:25<supermop_>and i don't see why that is a problem for _dp_ 's use case
14:25<Wolf01>But we should move everything to grf, not just add
14:25<andythenorth>smaller saves = better MP experience?
14:25<supermop_>because the noisiness of it is independent of it being in trunk or grf
14:26<andythenorth>do we have to transmit all the tree crap during the game, or just when getting map?
14:26<_dp_>supermop_, because instead of having one tree placement that explodes saves you'll have infinite number of those
14:26<_dp_>supermop_, one can at least be fixed
14:26<supermop_>_dp_: if every tree placement style is in trunk, they could get used on your server
14:27<Wolf01>_dp_: I can't understand you
14:27<supermop_>if they are in newgrf, then you can chose not to use noiseyrandomtrees.grf on your server
14:27*andythenorth asumes tree state is synced to all clients, so MP has to transmit state for it?
14:27<supermop_>if noiseyrandomtrees in in trunk you are stuck with it
14:28<andythenorth>nah, we just break backwards compatibility
14:28<@Alberth>andy: yes, but on join only
14:28<_dp_>supermop_, what i'm saying is make less noisy way of placing trees first and then make it extensible with newgrfs
14:28<andythenorth>just simplify trees
14:28<Wolf01>_dp_: which is what we are talking about
14:28<andythenorth>all will be fine :)
14:28<frosch123>andythenorth: what if treestate is deterministic so you can recompute it on game load
14:28<frosch123>no need to transmit it then
14:28<_dp_>supermop_, instead of extending bad thing and prevent it from even being fixed because of compatibility
14:29<andythenorth>I was hoping it was another reason this is a GOOD BAD FEATURE
14:29<andythenorth>-> more fun for newgrf authors
14:29<andythenorth>-> smaller saves
14:29<Wolf01>Also what if I manually place random trees on the map? One by one
14:29<andythenorth>-> less state transmitted in MP
14:29<@peter1138>treestate can never change?
14:29<supermop_>allowing newgrf tree styles doesn't extend the existing bad tree generators
14:29<andythenorth>no they would get rm-ed
14:30<_dp_>Wolf01, it's fine to have huge save in that case since noone even does it
14:30-!-Zuu [] has joined #openttd
14:30-!-Zuu is "Leif" on #openttdcoop.nightly #freerct #openttd #openttdcoop.devzone #openttd.noai
14:30<@Alberth>_dp_: you always have a compatibility problem somewhere if you remove such state
14:30<andythenorth>lo zeta
14:30<Wolf01>_dp_: not a valid reason
14:31<frosch123>Wolf01: store them in the begining and when the player does not check revert them back to random :p
14:31<supermop_>andythenorth: removing original trees would not prevent you from loading save with original random trees
14:31*andythenorth likes andythenorth’s idea best
14:31<andythenorth>supermop_: you just send that data to dev/null
14:31<andythenorth>game changed
14:31<supermop_>just no new random trees would grow
14:31<andythenorth>omelette, eggs :)
14:31<frosch123>they can still grow
14:31<frosch123>just determinstic
14:32<Wolf01>And making a random seed saved on the game, and remove all the randoms? You can get the same trees even if you dynamite the entire map
14:32<frosch123>the tree on tile (1,1) would always match the tree on tile (1263,592)
14:32<andythenorth>seems fine
14:32<Wolf01>You will just have a "plant tree" button, and it places the tree based on that seed
14:33<andythenorth>how may bits can we delete then? o_O
14:33<Wolf01>Eh, you still need to keep count of trees for every tile
14:33<andythenorth>you’ve got 255 random values
14:33<@peter1138>so you know how many trees are on a tile
14:34<andythenorth>256 *
14:34<andythenorth>just generate tree patterns based on that
14:34<andythenorth>it’s enough state
14:34<andythenorth>also got tile height, ground type, game date, blah blah
14:34<@peter1138>nah, take that out
14:34<@peter1138>generate tile height from the seed
14:35<frosch123>landscape may be slightly rough
14:35-!-supermop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:35<andythenorth>NoTerrain can sort that out later :P
14:35<andythenorth>probably not
14:35<Wolf01>The problem is that you can change the tile height by playing
14:35<andythenorth>there is that
14:35<andythenorth>maybe that’s a bug :P
14:35<@peter1138>and you can change tree state by playing
14:36-!-supermop [] has joined #openttd
14:36-!-supermop is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
14:36<Wolf01>Yes, but you can remove the randomness and calculate it
14:36<andythenorth>another bug peter1138
14:37<@peter1138>pseudo random based on some seed and x and y?
14:37<@peter1138>whenever you change a tree... you always get the same tree
14:37<@peter1138>no temporal changes
14:37<@peter1138>seems shitty to me
14:37<andythenorth>if you don’t like, it add a newgrf that fixes it :P
14:38<supermop_>i think i would prefer to be able to see different trees on tile x,y over time
14:38<andythenorth>ok, what would be better, excepting current implementation? o_O
14:38<@peter1138>why worry?
14:38<@peter1138>what's the problem again?
14:38<Wolf01>seed, x, y, game date
14:38<_dp_>supermop_, add date to hash :p
14:38<andythenorth>peter1138: was newgrf trees
14:38<andythenorth>then it...evolved
14:38<@peter1138>every changes every time the date changes
14:38<supermop_>but if that means removing random built in function, and then i have to add a new random genrator back in by newgrf, i would be ok with it
14:39<andythenorth>you know how it goes
14:39<Wolf01>Hypnotic maps
14:39<andythenorth>you set off to Dublin, and end up in Kilmarnock
14:39<Wolf01>Change trees at every tick
14:39<supermop_>i am fine if the built in trees are somewhat boring and non-random
14:40<supermop_>Wolf01: make cellular automata out of trees
14:40<supermop_>and have them gliding across the map
14:40<Wolf01>Conway game of life, with OTTD trees
14:40<_dp_>yep, save issue is not quite about removing randomness but rather moving it from map array to code
14:41<supermop_>_dp_: i just want the abiltiy to add either the bad random, or something else, back in via newgrf
14:41<supermop_>or if not newgrf, some other modular element for landscape pieces
14:42<supermop_>river generation as well
14:42<supermop_>and town placement
14:42<supermop_>even town road pattern
14:42<_dp_>supermop_, that's fine I guess as long as it doesn't prevent core and other grfs from planting them efficiently
14:42<supermop_>the fact that i cannot get a 2x4 street grid without a patch seems crazy to me
14:44<supermop_>some townsets try to make different styles of towns - like pikkas - but they cant control where those town are
14:44<Wolf01>Brick pattern cities
14:44<andythenorth>peter1138: are all the patches shit? o_O
14:44<supermop_>if every town on your map happens to be on top of a height 60 desert mountain, some of those are going to have to be cities anyway
14:45<@peter1138>sorry i lost the will to live
14:47<LordAro>frosch123: i rebased my patch queues :)
14:47<_dp_>supermop_, you can get 2x4: disable roads and write gs :p
14:49<frosch123>LordAro: weren't it like 11 before?
14:49<LordAro>frosch123: yeah, you implemented some of them ;)
14:50<LordAro>oh, and 0004 in 421da doesn't actually work
14:50<LordAro>something about static initialisation order
14:50<LordAro>i think
14:50<frosch123>nah, you dropped for example the multibyte thingie
14:50<frosch123>which was btw. blatantly incomplete :p
14:50<LordAro>oh indeed :p
14:50<LordAro>i basically gave up once i realised how many there were :p
14:50<frosch123>same here :)
14:52-!-debdog [] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 210 seconds.]
14:52-!-supermop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:52<supermop_>_dp_: current i turn off towns allowed to build and build them myself sometimes
14:53<supermop_>but with unspooled the maintenance cost gets a little high, so i end up with cities full of dirt roads
14:54<supermop_>only upgrade to asphalt when i want to run a bus down that street
14:54<andythenorth>peter1138: this one’s nice
14:54-!-debdog [] has joined #openttd
14:54-!-debdog is "Wowbagger" on #openttd
14:54<frosch123>LordAro: btw. how far got your halfbuzz tries?
14:55<frosch123>or did i only dream about you trying stuff?
14:55<frosch123>i though i remembered some configure patch
14:56<LordAro>no further than configuring
14:56<andythenorth>@summon george
14:56<andythenorth>silly DorpsGek
14:56<LordAro>not that i can find any patch now
14:57-!-supermop [] has joined #openttd
14:57-!-supermop is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
14:58<andythenorth>eh, this has a low chance of getting anywhere
14:58<andythenorth>it’s 3 totally different patches on one FS
14:59<supermop_>andythenorth: nice submission date on that spelling patch
14:59<andythenorth>ha ha
14:59<andythenorth>he did well
15:00<andythenorth>what’s this about?
15:01<andythenorth>wiki link is dead
15:01<frosch123>i guess "company shares" is one of those topics that makes me regret the project goals :)
15:02<frosch123>can we find some excuse to remove them?
15:02<andythenorth>it’s not a current goal to extend them
15:02<_dp_>andythenorth, judging by lang file 5857 changes shares buying from being in chunks of 25% to 5%
15:02<andythenorth>frosch123: I can’t even say “NoShares"
15:02<andythenorth>if the No thing becomes a dumb joke, it’s no use :P
15:02<supermop_>yeah remove shares
15:02<andythenorth>can anyone explain shares to me?
15:02<frosch123>andythenorth: revert back to "yet another"?
15:02<andythenorth>why don’t I just buy the company?
15:03<supermop_>yet another shareholding mechanism
15:03<_dp_>andythenorth, realism :p
15:03<LordAro>"because TTD" i think
15:03<andythenorth>are shares in TTD?
15:03<LordAro>fairly sure
15:03<andythenorth>frosch123: can we amend?
15:03<LordAro>maybe even in TT
15:03<LordAro>istr that they changed a bit between the two
15:03<supermop_>LordAro: dont recall them in tto
15:03<andythenorth>frosch123 ‘replicate the original gameplay, except where it’s daft’?
15:04<frosch123>andythenorth: it's the only option to remove an ai company in ttd
15:04<supermop_>what gameplay value did shares contribute?
15:04<andythenorth>reduce it to a ‘buy’ button?
15:04<Wolf01>We started so well by removing the silly AI and add it with external resources
15:04<frosch123>i think i read about people having fun buying ai companies and refactoring the ai nonsense-network
15:04<andythenorth>I used to buy AI
15:05<supermop_>lets force shareholding on MP servers, so you cannot take action in your campany unless a majority of other shareholding players agree
15:05<supermop_>andy's boss?
15:05<frosch123>andy -> baldi?
15:05<Wolf01>I think he is the boss
15:08<frosch123>supermop_: if you buy 50 of the shares, you can kick the player from the server?
15:09<frosch123>or move to spectators
15:09<supermop_>we need to make it more easy for players with huge cash reserves to make the game miserable for newly formed companies
15:10<andythenorth>shares are mostly boring
15:10<_dp_>supermop_, easy enough, just terra all to water :p
15:10<supermop_>yes but we need more
15:11<supermop_>let them buy your company and reassign you to cleaning out the boilers of steam trains
15:12<andythenorth>frosch123 found this one :P
15:12<andythenorth>seems half-implemented?
15:13<frosch123>yes, nothing wrong with the idea, but i gave up trying to teach basic coding skills to random patchers
15:13<frosch123>it were two features, i reimplemented the first one
15:13<andythenorth>this is a bad implementation
15:13<andythenorth>poor UI
15:13<frosch123>maybe the second one can be folded into newlandscape :p
15:14<LordAro>andythenorth: probably wants some sort of selection dropdown?
15:14<LordAro>not sure if that exists
15:14<LordAro>maybe cannibalise some of the settings stuff?
15:15<frosch123>signs have a text filter
15:15<frosch123>imho all lists in ottd should have a text filter
15:15<LordAro>alternatively, maybe comlock's UI? it would be consistent with the map
15:17<frosch123>the other one is consistent with station list :p
15:17<frosch123>but station list is meh as well
15:17<frosch123>i wonder whether i ever used it
15:18<LordAro>and text filters don't allow you to "select" totally disjoint items
15:18<LordAro>which is what's being done here
15:19<frosch123>our text filters do OR
15:19<frosch123>they are not "whole match"
15:20*andythenorth closed 5455
15:21<andythenorth>+1 to text filter, but eh
15:22<andythenorth>about to kill this one
15:22<andythenorth>last chance to save it :P
15:23<@peter1138>what were we doing?
15:23<@peter1138>ah yes, minecraft
15:23<andythenorth>such Steve
15:24-!-supermop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:25<_dp_> "Squirrel is a high level imperative, object-oriented programming language, designed to be a light-weight scripting language that fits in the size, memory bandwidth, and real-time requirements of applications like video games."
15:25<frosch123>shorten it to "squirrel is like lua, but real objects"?
15:26<_dp_>frosch123, I've no idea what lua is like :)
15:26<frosch123>lua is like c, but with some syntactical tricks to make stuff appear as objects
15:26<@Alberth>eveything is a dict
15:27<frosch123>which makes it actually horrible
15:27<@Alberth>and querying something non-existing yields 'nil'
15:28<@Alberth>counting starts at 1
15:28<frosch123>if you have a instance "i", and a method "m", you can write "i:m()" to call it, but "i.m" is something entirely different
15:29*_dp_ never seen a sane language counting from 1
15:29<frosch123>"i:m()..." is short for "i.__metatable.m(i, ...)"
15:29-!-supermop [] has joined #openttd
15:29-!-supermop is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
15:29<andythenorth>LordAro I probably shouldn’t just close this? o_O
15:29<frosch123>or something similar
15:30<supermop_>a thing i designed has become a real thing
15:30<frosch123>andythenorth: it's on the offical todo list :p
15:31<V453000>supermop_: is that your living room? :P
15:31<LordAro>andythenorth: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
15:31<LordAro>andythenorth: i think it could probably be finished relatively easily
15:32<@Alberth>looking nice supermop_
15:34<supermop_>V453000: its the cabinetmaker's shop
15:34<supermop_>this is for a client
15:35<supermop_>at the time i felt bad that it was going to be so expensive, but now i wish i had asked her to use a fancier fabric
15:35<milek7>hmm, i was considiering using lua in train simulator, as it looked popular and reasonably fast for scripting language
15:35<milek7>but if counting starts at 1, i need to find something else ;d
15:36<frosch123>milek7: lua is old and has some mainenance drama
15:36<frosch123>squirrel is likely more suitable now
15:36-!-Gja [] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (]
15:36-!-supermop_home [] has joined #openttd
15:36-!-supermop_home is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
15:36<_dp_>lua still seems vastly more popular
15:37<frosch123>php and mysql are also popular
15:38<andythenorth>writing js frameworks is popular
15:38<andythenorth>are at least…frequent :P
15:38<supermop_>it has three hinged compartments for storage
15:38<supermop_>as flat file for art prints
15:39<supermop_>total length is 8', width is 20"
15:39<frosch123>i just had some trouble putting that into context, but was funny
15:39<andythenorth>are / or /s but nvm
15:39<frosch123>i would totally believe if javascript has three hinged compartments for storage
15:40<andythenorth>there is likely a framework for it
15:41<andythenorth>not convinced by this one
15:41-!-supermop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:42<milek7>hm, how squirrel binds to c/c++?
15:42<milek7>luajit ffi looked really simple
15:42<_dp_>I've no idea what 5619 might be useful for
15:42<frosch123>usually you do it with template magic
15:43<frosch123>but if you care about performance there are other options
15:43-!-debdog [] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
15:43<frosch123>at work i recently had to use lua
15:43<andythenorth>multiple hotkeys extends user interface?
15:43<frosch123>my custom binding code has twice the speed of luabridge, but ofc nasty to use
15:44<_dp_>but I'm only playing patched client, so mb it already has some hotkey issue fixed which that patch might address
15:44*andythenorth can’t judge it
15:44<andythenorth>so we have a patch nobody knows need for?
15:44<andythenorth>probably commit it then :)
15:45<frosch123>andythenorth: i believe it does rotation stuff
15:45<frosch123>press "a" for autorail, press "a" again for autoroad
15:45<frosch123>you can bind the same key to multiple things and it rotates between them
15:46<_dp_>frosch123, "Allow multiple hotkey actions assigned to one key if at most one of them is a tool hotkey"
15:46<_dp_>frosch123, doesn't sound like it
15:47<andythenorth>@seen 3298
15:47<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: I have not seen 3298.
15:47<milek7>(btw: this is train simulator with i'm recently playing around
15:47<frosch123>i don't think usernames can start with a number
15:47<V453000>checking if the bot saw the ticket so you can ditch it? :D
15:47<milek7>extra legacy code ;p
15:47<andythenorth>I’ve emailed 3298 to see if he’ll join irc
15:48<frosch123>milek7: what makes it polish? the vehicles or the interface?
15:50<milek7>aside from launcher there is almost no interface
15:50-!-debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:418b:1400:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has joined #openttd
15:50-!-debdog is "Wowbagger" on #openttd
15:51<andythenorth>frosch123 LordAro news filtering? o_O
15:51*_dp_ writing python that writes c++
15:51<_dp_>coz I too lazy to write c++ myself
15:52<andythenorth>that’s what python’s for, right?
15:52<frosch123>andythenorth: do any of the patches have "filter by currently visible in main viewport"?
15:52<frosch123>(no idea whether it would actualyl turn out usable)
15:53<andythenorth>I suspect not :P
15:53<frosch123>alternatively: filter by smallmap :p
15:54*_dp_ haven't seen any news improvement idea that I'd find useful
15:54<andythenorth>what’s this all about then? o_O
15:55<_dp_>smells refactoring
15:55<frosch123>about news: i always wanted to replace the horizontal ticker with a vertical one
15:55<andythenorth>can it blink?
15:55<frosch123>vertical resizeable statusbar, and way faster scrolling compared to horizontal
15:55<andythenorth>ooh a patch from Eddi|zuHause :)
15:56<andythenorth>“frosch says no"
15:57<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: ^ if I close that, will you be cross?
15:59<andythenorth>this is on the TODO, I don’t like to close it
15:59<_dp_>there seem to be enough performance issues with that kind of stuff already
15:59<andythenorth>but it’s from 2012
16:01-!-SimYouLater [] has joined #openttd
16:01-!-SimYouLater is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #openttd
16:02<SimYouLater>Trying to work on TTD-Scale tracks, but tbh I will need a pre-assembled single nml file, if only to trim it down to what I need for the one railtype.
16:03<SimYouLater>In GPL v2 licence.
16:04<supermop_>termite is gpl
16:04<SimYouLater>I tried Nutracks, but it's simply too confusing and no single tracktypes have NML GPL v2 code.
16:05<andythenorth>nml examples
16:05<SimYouLater>Is termite not finescale?
16:05<supermop_>at least i think it is
16:05<andythenorth>termite is not finescale
16:05<supermop_>its normal ttd ish
16:05<supermop_>it has NG included
16:05<SimYouLater>I'll try it. brb...
16:05<supermop_>which is finer
16:05<supermop_>but RAIL and ELRL are normal
16:07<andythenorth>429 open FS left
16:08-!-dirtyroshi [] has joined #openttd
16:08-!-dirtyroshi is "dirtyroshi" on #openttd
16:08<LordAro>at what point do you start fixing them instead of closing them? :p
16:09<andythenorth>there were ~840 when I started
16:09<andythenorth>so I reckon maybe 419
16:09<andythenorth>I have tested some patches that appear to work
16:12-!-synchris [~synchris@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:13-!-FLHerne [] has joined #openttd
16:13-!-FLHerne is "Francis Herne" on #openttd
16:13<SimYouLater>About termite. It doesn't have graphics for RAIL or ELRL. It's programmed to use the existing graphics and doesn't include them.
16:14<andythenorth>let’s see if this compiles
16:14<andythenorth>fails to apply :(
16:14<andythenorth>quite a lot of failures
16:15<supermop_>SimYouLater: i think it adds sprites for 3rd rail
16:16<supermop_>are you looking for code example or graphic example? you could probably erase the 3rd rail from the 3rd rail tracks
16:16<SimYouLater>The thing is, I'm hoping not to have to mess with sprite alignments, considering how long Nutracks apparently had misaligned tracks.
16:16<SimYouLater>I suppose I could.
16:16<SimYouLater>I'm just not really sure how.
16:17<supermop_>also i think swedish tracks is simple and gpl, and adds sprites
16:17<andythenorth>what’s the goal?
16:18-!-sim-al2 [] has joined #openttd
16:18-!-sim-al2 is "sim-al2" on #openttd @#/r/openttd
16:21-!-_3298 [] has joined #openttd
16:21-!-_3298 is "realname" on #openttd
16:21<andythenorth>is _3298
16:23<_3298>numbers at the start are indeed not allowed (read the log page), but underscores are apparently fine :)
16:24<andythenorth>so what’s this patch for? :)
16:24*andythenorth is having a Flyspray bonfire
16:24<_3298>well, it came from here:
16:25<_3298>i noticed your activity on flyspray already
16:25<andythenorth>I think Alberth started reviewing the groups gui patch ;)
16:26-!-SimYouLater [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:26<_3298>looking back, 5619 is more like a solution in search of a problem
16:27<andythenorth>wondered about that :)
16:28<_3298>i wrote it to get around a design flaw in my transparency gui draft, then solved it in another way, and dumped the patch on the bugtracker for others to find
16:28-!-SimYouLater [] has joined #openttd
16:28-!-SimYouLater is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #openttd
16:29<andythenorth>_3298: mind if I close it? o_O
16:29<_3298>it's mostly useless
16:30<SimYouLater>Ugh, I somehow got disconnected.
16:31<SimYouLater>@andythenorth: I'm trying to make a newgrf with a single tracktype, with graphics which imitate the original TTD toyland rails.
16:31<andythenorth>427 FS left :)
16:33<andythenorth> SimYouLater
16:34-!-supermop [] has joined #openttd
16:34-!-supermop is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
16:37-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [] has joined #openttd
16:37-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 is "purple" on #openttd
16:37-!-Alberth [] has left #openttd []
16:37<_3298>andy, if you think 427 is too few, i can add a few new patches ;)
16:37<SimYouLater>How would I download the linked example as one piece? I don't use any special coding meger programs.
16:37-!-FLHerne [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:38-!-supermop_home [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:39<andythenorth>_3298: you could fix some of the bugs :P
16:39<andythenorth>SimYouLater: you can’t
16:39-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:39<andythenorth>download one at a time, or get a version control app
16:39-!-FLHerne [] has joined #openttd
16:39-!-FLHerne is "Francis Herne" on #openttd
16:40<_3298>andy: i don't think i have that type of patch available right now :(
16:40<supermop_>SimYouLater: swedish tracks might be one simple nml file
16:40<supermop_>can't remember
16:40-!-Stimrol [] has joined #openttd
16:40-!-Stimrol is "Stimrol" on #openttd
16:43<SimYouLater>Well, at least it was small. Downloading tons of files would have been painful...
16:43-!-HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:44<supermop_>ive actually never managed to do a rail grf despite all the MLSS nonsense with depots, and trying to draw Alweg monorail tracks in fits and starts
16:45<supermop_>at first i hated monorails, seeing them as a boondoggle used to forstall real heavy rail construction
16:46<supermop_>but reading up on the alweg system to inform an idea for a monorail grf that would be more hobbled and realistic led me to get charmed by the stupid things
16:47<supermop_>so now i want to make a monorail grf out of genuine appreciation for a very niche product
16:48<supermop_>and now i aim to make a point of riding the Osaka monorail week after next
16:48<supermop_>( already rode the Tokyo monorail after my 'conversion' back in 2013)
16:49<SimYouLater>@andythenorth: that example has "nml" files containing html code unrelated to what anyone would need
16:50-!-supermop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:50<andythenorth>SimYouLater: whre?
16:50<andythenorth>where? *
16:51<SimYouLater>Oh. Apparently you have to click "view".
16:52<SimYouLater>Or similar. Download.
16:55-!-Maarten [~maarten@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:55<V453000>awesome presentation to watch
16:55-!-supermop [] has joined #openttd
16:55-!-supermop is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
16:56<andythenorth>V453000: now I can’t go to bed :(
16:56<andythenorth>that’s at least 1hr
16:56<V453000>this guy is fucking amazing
16:56<andythenorth>oh it’s new doom, not the original midi track
16:57<SimYouLater>Thanks, andy, the files will be perfect.
16:57-!-SimYouLater [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
17:13-!-mescalito [] has joined #openttd
17:13-!-mescalito is "realname" on #openttdcoop #openttd
17:15-!-dirtyroshi [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:18-!-dirtyroshi [] has joined #openttd
17:18-!-dirtyroshi is "dirtyroshi" on #oftc #openttd
17:21-!-Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:24<supermop_>i assume andy'd life is free of doom
17:24<supermop_>and is all brio, lego, etc
17:27<supermop_>i had the n64 doom cart
17:27<supermop_>for some reason
17:27<supermop_>seemed like an old game even then
17:27<supermop_>and an odd choice to be on n64
17:30<supermop_>i think it must have been part of some rush for n64 FPS shovelware
17:42<Wolf01> heh
17:43<andythenorth>nice colours
17:45<@peter1138>-- Beta feature --
17:45<@peter1138>This will install Ubuntu on Windows
17:45<frosch123>it could install vim
17:45<Wolf01>You can also wait for the next update and download many different subsystems via store
17:45<supermop_>why is donald the locomotive and mickey the tender?
17:46<Wolf01>Do you see a tender with a beak?
17:48<@peter1138>how long to wait for the next update?
17:49<@peter1138>too late anyway, it's installing
17:50<Wolf01>I hope it's installing 16.04 and not 14.04
17:50<Wolf01>I had to upgrade manually after creator update
17:55<frosch123>so you can only play textmode ottd?
17:55<Wolf01>You can install an x server on windows and use that
17:55<frosch123>ok, that was my next question
18:02<@peter1138>which one?
18:04<Alkel_U3>textmode is this?
18:05<Alkel_U3>I ws hella surprised that started up when I accidentaly ran non-dedicated-server instalation over ssh once
18:06<Alkel_U3>even more surprised that it actually sorta worked
18:07<@peter1138>Cloning into 'openttd'...
18:07<@peter1138>This is going to end badly
18:10<@peter1138>Wolf01, it is "xenial"
18:11<LordAro>that is indeed 16.04
18:11-!-mescalito [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:12<Wolf01>You also need to install that libicu52 stuff
18:13-!-Zuu [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:20-!-supermop [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:20-!-gelignite [] has quit [Quit:]
18:21-!-supermop [] has joined #openttd
18:21-!-supermop is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
18:25-!-andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
18:28<@peter1138>it building
18:29<@peter1138>i miss the days of 12 second compile times
18:29<@peter1138>that was before we c++'d it
18:32<frosch123>i was surprised about the vastly different buildtimes lordaro showed on that compile service
18:34<LordAro>single core compilation's taken about 5 min as long as i can remember
18:35<@peter1138>OpenTTD requires graphics to function
18:36-!-supermop_home [] has joined #openttd
18:36-!-supermop_home is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
18:36<@peter1138>hmm, wonder if it's doing anything :p
18:38<@peter1138>seems to be stuck on :(
18:40-!-debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:418b:1400:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 210 seconds.]
18:42-!-supermop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:42-!-debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:418b:1400:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has joined #openttd
18:42-!-debdog is "Wowbagger" on #openttd
18:42<@peter1138>dbg: [net] [tcp/http] requesting
18:42<@peter1138>is that... right?
18:42<@peter1138>it's a 404.
18:43<Wolf01>It works for me, retry, maybe you got a bad mirrir
18:43<LordAro>/bananas/ works fine
18:44<LordAro>/bananas indeed is a 404
18:47<@peter1138>oh it's a post to /bananas, and that's ok
18:49<@peter1138>but it's not requesting the content
18:50-!-Stimrol [] has quit [Quit: ZNC -]
18:52-!-supermop_home [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:55-!-supermop [] has joined #openttd
18:55-!-supermop is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
18:55-!-Maarten [~maarten@] has joined #openttd
18:55-!-Maarten is "maarten" on #openttd #debian #/r/openttd
18:59<Wolf01>What does that remember me?
19:01-!-_3298 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:03-!-Wormnest [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:04-!-mindlesstux [~mindlesst@2001:19f0:5:238:5400:ff:fe30:7f01] has quit [Quit: ZNC -]
19:05-!-mindlesstux [~mindlesst@2001:19f0:5:238:5400:ff:fe30:7f01] has joined #openttd
19:05-!-mindlesstux is "ZNC -" on #virtualization #virt @#tuz-oftc @#tuz #qemu #osm #openttd #openconnect #observium #linode #ipv6 #OpenRailwayMap
19:06-!-supermop_home [] has joined #openttd
19:06-!-supermop_home is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
19:07-!-supermop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:08<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: how should we know?
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>the only notable instance of someone forking openttd because they aren't getting along with the "leadership" that i can think of is cirdan.
19:13<Eddi|zuHause>other forks are mainly patchpacks
19:13<+glx>and most patchpack die sooner or later because they are hard to maintain
19:16<Eddi|zuHause>then, of course, there's the whole SAC clique who basically "forked" the forum. but that doesn't really directly concerns openttd
19:17<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, how is patchpack different from a fork?
19:18<Eddi|zuHause>_dp_: it's not, but the reasons for existing are different
19:19<Eddi|zuHause>_dp_: patchpacks are a subset of forks
19:19<Eddi|zuHause>technically, every patch is a fork, until it is applied to trunk
19:19<+glx>patchpacks try to follow trunk updates
19:19<Wolf01>A fork could continue development on its own road, while a patchpack is just lot of patches applies to trunk
19:20<frosch123>glx: the current ones are pretty longlived
19:20<+glx>and often stop because some merges are very hard
19:20<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: that's because trunk doesn't change much :p
19:20<frosch123>i think it's also because they know how to use a vcs
19:20<Wolf01>Just be evil and apply more patches :>
19:21<+glx>I remember the "fun" it was to help RichK's patchpack when we rewrote the GUI
19:21<Eddi|zuHause>what was the last big change in trunk? MHL? most relevant patchpacks probably included that already
19:22<Eddi|zuHause>glx: gui frameworks are really hard...
19:22<Wolf01>UI rewrite was one of the main reasons why I stopped to develop at that time :P
19:23<Eddi|zuHause>you have to get into the same mindset as the framework creator
19:23<_dp_>as I see it the main difference is that some forks(patchpacks) that are meant to coexist with original and some aim to replace it
19:24<+glx>the switch to c++ killed many patches too :)
19:25<Eddi|zuHause>i remember that, as it was around the time MiniIN died
19:26<+glx>main problem with MiniIN was its creator not being a coder
19:27<Wolf01>And me providing patches
19:27<+glx>so each conflict in a merge was causing a lot of troubles
19:29<+glx>when you're the author of the patch you usually know how to easily solve a conflict
19:29<+glx>but in a patchpack it's a different story
19:30<+glx>and worse when 2 patches touch the same area
19:32-!-efess [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:35<@peter1138>fopen() doesn't create paths does it...
19:36<@peter1138>the base graphics downloader is trying to save to the local content directory
19:36<@peter1138>but none of that exists. hmm.
19:40<@peter1138>FioCreateDirectory() doesn't check if it worked
19:40<Eddi|zuHause>glx: of course there was also the topic of the patchpack growing totally out of the original scope of being like 3 patches (hence "Mini")
19:41<Eddi|zuHause>(apparently there was a regular "IN" before)
19:43<frosch123>i think you missed the 10 year anniversary of last miniin
19:43-!-SimYouLater_ [] has joined #openttd
19:43-!-SimYouLater_ is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #openttd
19:43<SimYouLater_>Does anyone know how I can get in contact with NekoMaster? Immediately or as soon as possible? I've sent him a very important PM, I'm not at liberty to discuss what, but he needs to see it and hasn't posted in days.
19:44-!-SimYouLater_ [] has quit []
19:44-!-SimYouLater_ is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #openttd
19:44-!-SimYouLater_ [] has joined #openttd
19:44<SimYouLater_>Sorry, misspelled my username.
19:44<frosch123>video games do not qualify as "very important" in general
19:44<frosch123>@seen nekomaster
19:44<@DorpsGek>frosch123: nekomaster was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 2 days, 16 hours, 18 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <nekomaster> and 0 kN TE
19:44<frosch123>so, was even here once
19:45<SimYouLater_>In this case, if I told you, something I will not let happen would. Please find them.
19:45<frosch123>'s vacation time
19:45<frosch123>maybe he is somewhere traveling
19:46<frosch123>forum pm is your best try
19:46<SimYouLater_>Then please wait for him before you do it over again. You'll know what I'm talking about when/if you spot it.
19:46-!-SimYouLater_ [] has quit []
19:51<frosch123>i don't think i ever had an interaction with him, so i leave it to eddi to not do something when you see something
19:51-!-pdoan is "phongdoan" on #debian
19:51-!-pdoan [] has joined #openttd
19:51-!-supermop [] has joined #openttd
19:51-!-supermop is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
19:53-!-supermop_home [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:53-!-pdoan [] has quit []
19:54<Wolf01>WTF I just read?
19:55-!-pdoan is "phongdoan" on #debian
19:55-!-pdoan [~pdoan@2601:603:400:9989:790d:a503:8d9d:6075] has joined #openttd
20:02<@peter1138>no idea
20:02<@peter1138>do it over again? what
20:03<Wolf01>BTW, 'night, this time for real
20:03<frosch123>eddi will figure it out
20:03-!-Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
20:03<@peter1138>strapping young lad
20:03-!-pdoan [~pdoan@2601:603:400:9989:790d:a503:8d9d:6075] has quit [Quit: pdoan]
20:04<Eddi|zuHause>ok, i won't do something when you see something
20:05<@peter1138>no idea
20:05<@peter1138>is someone dramaing?
20:05<@peter1138>wait, i remember
20:05<@peter1138>i don't care :D
20:05-!-SimYouLater [] has joined #openttd
20:05-!-SimYouLater is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #openttd
20:05<Eddi|zuHause>no clue, i haven't really followed the forum
20:06<SimYouLater>I might as well explain myself since NekoMaster was apparently online just this morning.
20:06<SimYouLater>North American Track Set is on BaNaNaS. The "website" just links to Nekomaster's profile.
20:06<SimYouLater>I can't find source code anywhere.
20:07<SimYouLater>It's under GPL v2.
20:07<SimYouLater>I am seriously annoyed that the very thing that got me into doing NewGRFs right might happen AGAIN.
20:08<Eddi|zuHause>that is a seriously world-ending problem...
20:08<Eddi|zuHause>i think i will continue not doing anything
20:11<SimYouLater>So sue me, it's not the end of the world. It's just important to me that history doesn't repeat because of a mistake.
20:12<SimYouLater>I've even backed up the file itself; if I have to, I will extract the graphics, reverse engineer it and recode it from scratch.
20:12<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but give him like 3 business days to reply
20:13<SimYouLater>i was only worried assuming you wouldn't.
20:13<SimYouLater>You = the devs/admins/etc.
20:13<@peter1138>wouldn't what?
20:13<SimYouLater>Not necessarily you specifically.
20:13<SimYouLater>Wouldn't give him time to respond.
20:14<SimYouLater>To be honest I never learned what happens in those cases in terms of waiting time.
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>dude, it's the middle of the night
20:14<@peter1138>i worry about trump, nazis and brexit and shit like that
20:14<SimYouLater>Evening here. Sorry if this troubles you.
20:14<@peter1138>stuff that actually matters
20:14<@peter1138>oh yeah, and what bike i should buy next
20:16<SimYouLater>Look, it just really ticks me off that it might happen twice. Tbh I do have more important things I'm worrying about, this is just the one relevant here that gets my mind off even bigger stuff I'd rather not think about.
20:17<SimYouLater>As for if it gets removed, at least this time I'm not too late to try and prevent it. I can take my time re-creating it, I just wanted to ensure I wouldn't need to go that far.
20:18<SimYouLater>If it's that late for you, I'll head off to do other things.
20:18-!-SimYouLater [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20:24-!-supermop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:29-!-supermop [] has joined #openttd
20:29-!-supermop is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
20:32-!-FLHerne [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:36-!-supermop_home [] has joined #openttd
20:36-!-supermop_home is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
20:37-!-supermop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:49-!-pdoan is "phongdoan" on #debian
20:49-!-pdoan [] has joined #openttd
20:51-!-supermop_home_ [] has joined #openttd
20:51-!-supermop_home_ is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
20:52-!-supermop_home [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:52-!-frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
20:54-!-Biolunar [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:59-!-debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:418b:1400:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
21:00-!-debdog [] has joined #openttd
21:00-!-debdog is "Wowbagger" on #openttd
21:08-!-luxtram [~luxtram@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:08-!-luxtram [~luxtram@] has joined #openttd
21:08-!-luxtram is "luxtram" on #openttd
21:28-!-Flygon [] has joined #openttd
21:28-!-Flygon is "Flygon" on #openttd
21:39-!-pdoan [] has quit [Quit: pdoan]
21:40-!-pdoan is "phongdoan" on #debian
21:40-!-pdoan [~pdoan@2601:603:400:9989:790d:a503:8d9d:6075] has joined #openttd
21:44-!-pdoan [~pdoan@2601:603:400:9989:790d:a503:8d9d:6075] has quit [Quit: pdoan]
21:45-!-pdoan is "phongdoan" on #debian
21:45-!-pdoan [~pdoan@2601:603:400:9989:790d:a503:8d9d:6075] has joined #openttd
22:04-!-supermop_home_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:04-!-pdoan [~pdoan@2601:603:400:9989:790d:a503:8d9d:6075] has quit [Quit: pdoan]
22:05-!-pdoan is "phongdoan" on #debian
22:05-!-pdoan [~pdoan@2601:603:400:9989:790d:a503:8d9d:6075] has joined #openttd
22:06-!-luxtram [~luxtram@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:06-!-supermop [] has joined #openttd
22:06-!-supermop is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
22:06-!-luxtram [~luxtram@] has joined #openttd
22:06-!-luxtram is "luxtram" on #openttd
22:09-!-pdoan [~pdoan@2601:603:400:9989:790d:a503:8d9d:6075] has quit [Quit: pdoan]
22:10-!-pdoan is "phongdoan" on #debian
22:10-!-pdoan [~pdoan@2601:603:400:9989:790d:a503:8d9d:6075] has joined #openttd
22:14-!-pdoan [~pdoan@2601:603:400:9989:790d:a503:8d9d:6075] has quit []
22:15-!-pdoan is "phongdoan" on #debian
22:15-!-pdoan [~pdoan@2601:603:400:9989:790d:a503:8d9d:6075] has joined #openttd
22:19-!-pdoan [~pdoan@2601:603:400:9989:790d:a503:8d9d:6075] has quit [Quit: pdoan]
22:20-!-pdoan is "phongdoan" on #debian
22:20-!-pdoan [~pdoan@2601:603:400:9989:790d:a503:8d9d:6075] has joined #openttd
22:24-!-glx [] has quit [Quit: Bye]
22:51-!-supermop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:51-!-supermop [] has joined #openttd
22:51-!-supermop is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
22:52-!-gentz [] has joined #openttd
22:52-!-gentz is "Hal Gentz" on #openttd
22:54-!-gentz [] has left #openttd []
23:08-!-supermop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:09-!-supermop [] has joined #openttd
23:09-!-supermop is "Guest" on #tycoon #openttd
23:19-!-pdoan [~pdoan@2601:603:400:9989:790d:a503:8d9d:6075] has quit [Quit: pdoan]
23:20-!-pdoan is "phongdoan" on #debian
23:20-!-pdoan [~pdoan@2601:603:400:9989:790d:a503:8d9d:6075] has joined #openttd
23:24-!-pdoan [~pdoan@2601:603:400:9989:790d:a503:8d9d:6075] has quit [Quit: pdoan]
23:26-!-pdoan is "phongdoan" on #debian
23:26-!-pdoan [~pdoan@2601:603:400:9989:790d:a503:8d9d:6075] has joined #openttd
---Logclosed Fri Aug 25 00:00:28 2017