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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-08-25

---Logopened Fri Aug 25 00:00:28 2017
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03:57<andythenorth>yo V453000
03:58<V453000>trying to render tha shit
03:58<V453000>python doing sssss
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05:13<andythenorth>why don’t snow tiles have fences?
05:13*andythenorth looks in map
05:13<andythenorth>is it by design, or oversight? :)
05:15<FLHerne>I assumed it was deliberate, because the fences are buried in snow or something
05:15<andythenorth>it’s probably realistic eh
05:15*andythenorth thinks it should be controlled by the railtype though
05:16<V453000>also fuck, can't access the part of blender I want easily ._.
05:17<V453000>in many parts the documentation just isn't there
05:20<V453000>ok this is apparently way too fucked up
05:20<V453000>need to do manually ._.
05:20<V453000>like what in the shit
05:21<V453000>just to change some filename in a specific node :D
05:24<andythenorth>aren’t fences controlled by this?
05:24*andythenorth cba to make a railtype grf to test it really
05:32*andythenorth closed 2 FS as ‘implemented’ :D
05:35<andythenorth>stuff added in 2010 :)
05:36<andythenorth>@seen wolf01
05:36<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: wolf01 was last seen in #openttd 9 hours, 33 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <Wolf01> ;)
05:36<andythenorth>@summon wolf01
05:36<andythenorth>yeah, that summon feature’s still broken :P
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05:48<_3298>andy, i have one more bug report for your bonfire
05:49<_3298> <- can be closed as "not a bug", i confirmed the guess in the comment
05:49<andythenorth>_3298: can you comment on it? :)
05:49<andythenorth>then I’ll close
05:50<andythenorth>then there will be 421 FS left
05:50<andythenorth>when I started it was 840 :P
05:50<andythenorth>lo Wolf01
05:50<andythenorth>summon does work then
05:51<Wolf01>Good, you are at 49.9%
05:53<andythenorth>peter1138: cargo isn’t moved to station based on tiles covered, is it?
05:53*andythenorth might be smoking crack
05:53<andythenorth>or that FS is
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05:56<_3298>andy: comment posted, you can close it
05:57<FLHerne>andythenorth: AAUI, the report is asking for that behaviour
05:58<andythenorth>FLHerne: yeah, I think that’s smoking crack :)
05:58<FLHerne>(which currently doesn't exist, and would be pretty annoying)
05:58<FLHerne>I mean, it would be consistent with the acceptance behaviour
05:58<FLHerne>But I find that annoying too
05:59<andythenorth>_3298: closed
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06:13<_3298>with the help of someone with commit access we could get rid of some easy bugs like
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06:14*andythenorth closed
06:14<andythenorth>_3298: have you applied the patch and verified it?
06:15<andythenorth>oh there is no patch :P
06:15<_3298>i made a patch and verified it
06:19<andythenorth>stick it on the ticket?
06:19<andythenorth>I’ll change it to ‘with patch”?
06:19<_3298>one moment
06:22<andythenorth>updated FS thanks :)
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06:55<Wolf01>Dafuq is wrong with game settings?
06:56<Wolf01>SE reloads _settings_newgame every time I do something with landgen and I commented the function calls
06:57<andythenorth>Wolf01: loads of issues about SE eh :P
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06:57<Wolf01>_settings_newgame should be copied into _settings_game only when entering in SE
06:58<Wolf01>Non for every fucking function
06:58<andythenorth>related to this?
06:58<Wolf01>Yeah, I'm trying to understand that
06:59<andythenorth>such FS
06:59<Wolf01>I set it as "confirmed"
06:59<andythenorth>417 FS left now
06:59<Wolf01>I think every single task on SE could be set as "confirmed"
07:00<Wolf01>It's a mess, and all of them are valid
07:00<V453000>XD I managed to hack my way through it! So instead of changing a stupid ass name of some node's sub-paths, I do: 1. remove all sub-paths, 2. create new sub-paths, 3. link the input nodes to the sub-paths :D additionally the linking doesn't work for some input types for whatever reason so I had to make a processing node which just takes stuff and outputs the same stuff, just with customizable ID :D
07:04<andythenorth>kill it with fire
07:05<andythenorth>too many fucking feature requests V453000 :)
07:05<andythenorth>what should andythenorth do?
07:06<andythenorth>had the bonfire already
07:06<andythenorth>now into surgical strikes
07:06<andythenorth>I think 100 feature requests might be a better number
07:07<andythenorth>33 of them are george
07:08<andythenorth>I don’t think CD has vehicles on a line
07:08<andythenorth>a link can be composed of many vehicles, of many types
07:08<andythenorth>e.g. ships + trains on same link
07:08<V453000>he has the game in slovakian, just remove the ticket
07:09<FLHerne>andythenorth: I don't see your point
07:10<andythenorth>FLHerne: how many vehicle list windows open at once?
07:10<andythenorth>a shit ton
07:10<FLHerne>andythenorth: For a cargodist link, there's a set of vehicles that have orders covering that link
07:10<FLHerne>Have it like the station vehicle list?
07:11<FLHerne>It's just one list window, with toggles to show each type
07:11<andythenorth>we’d need toggles in the minimap
07:11<andythenorth>some way to move specific lines back/forward in the z plane
07:11<andythenorth>maybe a minimap zoom
07:12<FLHerne>Bleh, my memory of how these things look is bad
07:13<andythenorth>the problem I see is accurately clicking on 1px lines
07:13<FLHerne>What I imagine is some way to select a link, which would then popup something like the station window
07:13<andythenorth>especially when they overlap
07:13<andythenorth>FLHerne: you mean, ‘like the existing station window’? :)
07:13<FLHerne>Which would tell you the estimated capacity, estimated demand, cargo moved in last month or whatever, then have the little vehicle-list buttons
07:14<FLHerne>Maybe a list of cargo waiting at for the link at either end?
07:14<andythenorth>so a cdist links list, accesible from main toolbar?
07:14<FLHerne>(I'm not sure how much of the information actually /exists/ in CDist, I know bits of it are statistics rather than real cargo packets....)
07:15<FLHerne>Hm, that sounds awkward to use
07:15<andythenorth>what’s it for?
07:15<FLHerne>(I really don't like the current towns/industries lists)
07:15<andythenorth>~nobody does afaict from attempts to patch them :)
07:15<FLHerne>Better idea, have a links list accessible from the station window
07:16<FLHerne>To view details for each link from that station
07:16<FLHerne>(or maybe just expand the cargo-waiting list, but that can be confusing enough already)
07:17<FLHerne> ‎<‎andythenorth‎>‎ what’s it for?
07:17<FLHerne>At the moment, you go to a station and see "Goods: 2,351 via Fookingsilly"
07:18<andythenorth>annoying isn’t it
07:18<FLHerne>But there's no easy step to determine where the vehicles that should have moved those crates are
07:19<FLHerne>Maybe they're all stuck at a badly-placed signal, or maybe it's some enormous 4000-unit ship that's just coming along now
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07:20<FLHerne>So a way to get from "x units via Foo" to "vehicles that will go to Foo" would be quite useful
07:22<FLHerne>andythenorth: Oh, I think misunderstanding
07:22<FLHerne>andythenorth: You mean the "List of company's stations" window?
07:22<FLHerne>I find that useless and never use it :P
07:22<andythenorth>I have NFI
07:22<FLHerne>I mean the per-station, X-cargo-waiting ones
07:22<andythenorth>it’s not a problem I’ve ever had, so trying to understand it
07:23<andythenorth>No Fucking Idea :)
07:23<andythenorth>I play small maps, I don’t have any problem finding the vehicles for a station
07:23<andythenorth>but that ’10,000 very late bags of mail to BallAche”
07:23<andythenorth>is annoying
07:23*andythenorth wonders if that’s the real issue
07:26<FLHerne>andythenorth: If you have hubs with buses and rails and boats going damn well everywhere, it's a pain trying to find out which vehicles are involved
07:27<andythenorth>well I have no solution :)
07:27<FLHerne>My current game isn't really messed up enough yet
07:27<V453000>is why you group them ?
07:27<andythenorth>but clicking on overlapping 1px lines is not the solution
07:27<andythenorth>so that died
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07:28<FLHerne>V453000: If only the station vehicle list showed things by group
07:28<andythenorth>that’s a whole other thing eh :P
07:28<andythenorth>also ‘make group from station list’
07:30<FLHerne>‎[12:15] ‎<‎FLHerne‎>‎ Better idea, have a links list accessible from the station window
07:30<FLHerne>No clicking on things
07:30<FLHerne>Er, lines
07:30<FLHerne>Click on station
07:30<FLHerne>See there's a ton of X waiting to go via Y
07:31<FLHerne>Click on "view details" button for the link from here to Y
07:31<FLHerne>See estimated capacity/demand, cargo transported in last <time-period>, list of vehicles serving that link
07:32<FLHerne>Click on vehicle to see where it's got stuck
07:32<andythenorth>LordAro: are these same issue ?
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07:37<Wolf01>Ok, found 2 critical points for FS#6604
07:38<LordAro>andythenorth: hmm, possibly not quite
07:38<LordAro>6090 is about changing the selected music set
07:38<andythenorth>I’ll leave them alone
07:38<LordAro>(when in game)
07:39<LordAro>3997 is playing all of them
07:39<Wolf01>MakeNewGameSettingsLive() called twice per map generation, one could be disabled by a flag when calling the generation from SE, the other one is in the wrong place, I think it was put there because lazyness
07:39<LordAro>andythenorth: feel free to alter them to make it clearer
07:40<andythenorth>I added your comments :)
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07:44<andythenorth>can’t find even 1 more feature request to close :x
07:44<andythenorth>there are 206
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07:49<V453000>does mb actually still work on anything or release something? or does he just bitch on forums nowadays?
07:50<andythenorth>he works on DB stuff
07:50<andythenorth>and marico
07:50<V453000>wasn't lst DB set released on 5/5/2005 ?
07:50<andythenorth>V453000: I have now bought three terrible retro-synth albums :P
07:50<andythenorth>your fault
07:51<V453000>how terrible on scale of 0 to zbase?
07:51<andythenorth>marico and newnewships get releases sometimes
07:51<andythenorth>V453000: 11
07:53<andythenorth>well it will be nice when all 206 of these IMPORTANT FEATURES are done
07:53<Wolf01>Ooooh, finally I fixed it
07:54<andythenorth>Wolf01 works? o_O
07:55<Wolf01>I'm able to set a seed from console
07:57<Wolf01>Now it would be nice to have a seed textbox and a randomize button
07:58<andythenorth>my 7 year old wants to set the seed
07:58<andythenorth>NFI why
07:58<andythenorth>think he’s seen it in minecraft or something
07:58<andythenorth>I told him we deleted it from mapgen
07:58<Wolf01>Actually if I set the seed while creating a new game from menu, it gets stored in the settings and always uses that
07:58<andythenorth>is there some flow diagram of how this works?
07:59<Wolf01>I'm trying to figure it out
07:59<andythenorth>seems game settings / game start / SE is like this
08:00<andythenorth>state + flow seem like a mess
08:00<Wolf01>That's because the wrong use of _settings_newgame
08:00<Wolf01>SE should use only _settings_game
08:00<andythenorth>there’s no obvious pipeline
08:00<V453000>yes why is seed removed from mapgen
08:00<andythenorth>we were trying to simplify
08:00<V453000>for the case when I want to getseed and put it in there again
08:00<V453000>that's a very dumb point to simplify, sorry
08:00<andythenorth>all of game start has no flow
08:00<andythenorth>everything about it is fucked up
08:01<V453000>it's fine? :d
08:01<Wolf01>Simplifying by fucking up badly
08:01<V453000>you even have a giant ass green Generate button for people who don't want to read all the details
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08:07<Wolf01>At least now I can even change the seed before doing a restart
08:07<Wolf01>Seed: 1 generates a nice map
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08:09<Wolf01>IMO _settings_newgame.game_creation.generation_seed should ALWAYS be set at GENERATE_NEW_SEED and read only
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08:10<Wolf01>While _settings_game.game_creation.generation_seed could be changed freely and copied from the newgame one only if the "reset_settings" parameter is true
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08:25<Wolf01>Is possible to print the enum constant name with DEBUG?
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08:25<Wolf01>In c# it's easy
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08:29<LordAro>Wolf01: in C(++)? no, they're just numbers
08:30<LordAro>gdb can do it because of symbols, but that's a special case
08:30<LordAro>you can look at the rabbit hole that is "enum to string" if you like :p
08:30<Wolf01>Yes, I was there
08:36<Wolf01>MakeNewGameSettingsLive() is always called in the wrong place, no matter what
08:37<Wolf01>It should be called 1) when opening the new game window, 2) when starting a new game from cmd
08:38<Wolf01>1 <- from menu, not from the game
08:41<Wolf01>3) when opening the SE, maybe
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08:53<andythenorth>lo peter1138
08:53<andythenorth>is it coffee time?
08:54<@peter1138>i might go for another cup of tea though
08:54<Wolf01>It's always coffee time
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08:59<Wolf01>Ok, I think I found a nice thing
08:59<Wolf01>If I set a seed in GM_MENU, that seed will be saved in _settings_newgame
09:06<andythenorth>is that what game log looks like? o-O
09:06*andythenorth never used it
09:07<Wolf01>I added debugs everywhere
09:07<Wolf01>At least in the interesting points
09:07<Wolf01>I should add more
09:08<@peter1138>Wolf01, make it correct
09:08<@planetmaker>The seed kinda is interesting if you want to regenerate a map which you liked (and didn't save)
09:10<@peter1138>Date: Sun Apr 27 15:15:28 2014 +0000
09:10<@peter1138>hmm, been a while
09:10<Wolf01>This one is for SE
09:13<Wolf01>These are the results of my "fix", before that it didn't even work, it always generated a new seed in the same exact moment it generated the new map (GenerateWorld) and it wasn't possible to change it, also the seed was randomized when opening the UI and the next check for GENERATE_NEW_SEED was pointless
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09:20<Wolf01>BTW: I would like to save the current seed in _settings_newgame too, and reload it ONLY if doing restart
09:21<Wolf01>So if you change the seed and restart you restart with the same map
09:21<Wolf01>Like vanilla
09:21<andythenorth>what would ‘newgame’ do?
09:22<Wolf01>No, even vanilla fucks up...
09:23<Wolf01>"newgame" should generate a new game. Random? Yes. With a pre-set seed? Yes.
09:23<Wolf01>Current: always random
09:24<Wolf01>The seed textbox would help a lot
09:25<V453000>What was wrong with the way it was before? Just a seed texbox
09:26<Wolf01>Before it was right, it was the removal which fucked up all
09:26<V453000>is what I'm saying
09:26<andythenorth>I prefer it gone tbh
09:26<andythenorth>so much crap in world gen window
09:26<Wolf01>You can only set the seed from console when starting a game from the console
09:26<V453000>it's really useful when you want it
09:27<andythenorth>bring back seed, remove rivers
09:27<V453000>Wolf01: but why?
09:27<Wolf01>Because it's broken
09:27<Wolf01>The set seed
09:27<V453000>it always worked?
09:27<Wolf01>Or better, the generation
09:27<V453000>I was using getseed and pasting it there quit ofte
09:28<Wolf01>I can't start the map I want with the seed I want
09:28<Wolf01>To get the map I want I must start a new game, set the seed, restart
09:30<Wolf01>And with SE it doesn't even work
09:31<V453000>well if the seed doesn't work properly then that should be fixed
09:31<V453000>just hiding it isn't helpful
09:31<supermop_>hmm there was a 2 train at union square this morning
09:31<Wolf01>Revert r26526
09:32<supermop_>what shits going on in here today
09:32<Wolf01>Also apply my fix
09:32<Wolf01>(without the DEBUGs)
09:32<V453000>tell mr. FS wrecker :P
09:35<Wolf01>andytheFSwrexker: why you don't want the seed box? Only because there are too many settings?
09:35<andythenorth>wasn’t my commit
09:35<andythenorth>frosch went on a nice rampage deleting dead / crap settings
09:35<V453000>sure but you manage shit now :D
09:35<Wolf01><andythenorth> I prefer it gone tbh -<
09:35<andythenorth>yes, to me it’s just visual noise
09:35<V453000>one helpful setting won't make the world burn in there
09:35<andythenorth>I have no reason to use it, and definitely don’t want to see it in map gen
09:36<andythenorth>but eh
09:36<V453000>there is already a lot of stuff
09:36<Wolf01>But it introduced a bug, maybe it was there too, but now it's even hidden more
09:36<andythenorth>it’s just a load of meaningless numbers :)
09:36<andythenorth>but I am +/-0 on this
09:36<V453000>sure, ignore them if you don't care about them
09:36<andythenorth>there are bigger problems, like map gen is fucked
09:36<Wolf01>Allow people to put strings and convert them to uint
09:36<V453000>but every game that has a seed-based generation has a seed textbox :)
09:36<andythenorth>like, all those settings, and Tropic is still shit
09:37<V453000>well that's bigger issue, yes, but also sounds like it will need much more effort to fix :P
09:37<andythenorth>doubt it :)
09:37<andythenorth>just unfuck it
09:37<V453000>honestly my mind is so crippled that I don't even see tropic as that bad anymore
09:37<andythenorth>you are damaged
09:37<andythenorth>seek help
09:37<andythenorth>eat pixels
09:37<Wolf01>I'll scold frosch when he'll arrive
09:37<andythenorth>seeing as everything is connected
09:38<Wolf01>Need more biscuits
09:38<V453000>I iz defeat
09:39*V453000 is currently generating tree NML in python
09:39<V453000>such automation
09:39<Wolf01>That's how I eat spaghetti
09:39<andythenorth>wtf does map gen UI need tree algo choice?
09:39*Wolf01 slaps andythenorth
09:39<andythenorth>choice of generator: TGP / Original
09:40<andythenorth>I only use Original to remind myself that TGP is actually better
09:40<V453000>Original still has some use when you want proper old map
09:40<V453000>just make a [x] Reveal Expert Settings :P
09:40<andythenorth>everyone’s favourite UI solution :D
09:41<V453000>make 3 levels: 1. andythenorth - leaves just Generate button, 2. basic settings, 3. all of them
09:41<supermop_>andythenorth: make TGP built in, must add original back by newgrf
09:42<V453000>level 1 can add a disclaimed "Do not add FS tasks about adding options here, the task will be removed in 5 years."
09:42<Wolf01>Fine, I could do it
09:42<supermop_>also i wish pikka houses would try to put all of its many cute warehouses and such next to industries within the town zone
09:43<supermop_>this little cottage nestled in behind the silos of this bulk terminal looks like an odd place to build a new home
09:44<supermop_>V453000: add a disclaimer on FS that open items will be removed after 5 years
09:44<andythenorth>that is legit
09:44<andythenorth>more new rules
09:46<Wolf01>Going to get coffee and biscuits
09:47*andythenorth coffee same
09:49*V453000 python as fuck
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09:51<supermop_>Wolf01: andythenorth good idea maybe me too
09:57<supermop_>i never end up with cities needing food in viv
09:57<supermop_>maybe they just aren't big enough yet
10:11<supermop_>well dave has locked thread. what was all that about?
10:12<Wolf01>The discussion started to rot
10:13<supermop_>as opposed to it being productive before?
10:13<Wolf01>No, but the stink was too much at the end
10:14<Wolf01>Also, cleaned up the patch, some points need a bit of discussion but at least one problem seem to be fixed:
10:19<V453000>TLDR fuck dave
10:19<Wolf01>Feel free to pm SYL
10:19<Wolf01>I won't do it even for all the gold in the world
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10:21<supermop_>what about for all the lego in the world
10:21<Wolf01>With all the gold I'll be able to purchase lego and biscuits
10:22<supermop_>but spending the gold would crash its value
10:22<supermop_>best to melt the gold and mold it into lego shapes
10:24*Wolf01 out for a walk
10:26<andythenorth>V453000: I asked for that to be closed :P
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10:38<andythenorth>these aren’t 8/8 long :(
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11:04<V453000>andythenorth: :(
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11:05<V453000>I don't enjoy going to the forums if there is no drama
11:06<andythenorth>yeah, but I think he actually has mental health issues
11:06<V453000>well that's possible but how do you guess that
11:06<andythenorth>he posted that he had a nervous breadown?
11:06<andythenorth>in another thread
11:06<andythenorth>otherwise it would be drama time
11:07<V453000>should I write that somewhere? :D :P
11:07<andythenorth>also there is literally an overwhelming amount of wrong
11:08<andythenorth>the only possible reply I could think of was ‘Relax. It’s all going to be ok.’
11:08<V453000>I tried to contribute with motivating shit but it didn't add to the discussion at all XD
11:08<andythenorth>I miss DaleStan
11:09*andythenorth lives too much in the past :P
11:10<V453000> everything will change but I got the pipeline working :D
11:11<V453000>growth stages are transparent atm
11:11<V453000>but yeah
11:11<V453000>now it's just blender work :)
11:12<andythenorth>I hope you are accounting for NoTrees future :P
11:15<V453000>well this is just a base replacement :P
11:20<andythenorth>such new
11:21<andythenorth>v. good
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11:42<_3298>so much for "no low-hanging fruit remaining" in terms of patches
11:43<andythenorth>found some? o_O
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11:44<_3298>just identified and fixed another small interface bug,
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11:45<_3298>less than 10 lines changed does qualify for low hanging fruit, doesn't it?
11:45<andythenorth>hope so :D
11:46<andythenorth>I can’t test right now, but I’ve changed FS status
11:51<_3298>i also have a nasty surprise for you
11:52<_3298>a patch for a feature request you closed
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12:00<andythenorth>_3298: which issue?
12:01<andythenorth>does it also patch? o_O
12:01*andythenorth expects not
12:02<_3298>but it solves a few of the issues with the existing patches discussed in the comments
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12:22<supermop_>had to wait 20 min for a 4 train becausae stupid subway on fire
12:22<andythenorth>supermop_: those silly subways being on fire
12:23<supermop_>happens more than you'd expect here
12:23<andythenorth>is it minor?
12:23<andythenorth>or are we about to feel bad about mocking tragedy :|
12:31<supermop_>they happen every couple days in the summer
12:32<supermop_>mostly trash get ignited by a spark
12:32<supermop_>for big one the is issue of smoke inhalation
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12:33<supermop_>usually its a smaller minor delay, this one seems to be a bit bigger
12:37<_3298>andy, wanna try and break the patch?
12:40<_3298>i tested it thoroughly and found no issues myself, but it's not as tiny as the other patches i submitted on flyspray, so another person who thinks differently may very well find something
12:40<andythenorth>I can’t right now :)
12:40<_3298>no problem
12:42<_3298>a weekend is just ahead, maybe i can also get that review you mentioned then
12:46<andythenorth>maybe hope frosch123 or alberth are interested ;)
12:46<andythenorth>or even :o peter1138
12:47<andythenorth>@seen rubidium
12:47<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: rubidium was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 1 day, 21 hours, 3 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <Rubidium> sure
12:47<andythenorth>@seen belugas
12:47<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: belugas was last seen in #openttd 20 weeks, 6 days, 20 hours, 28 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <Belugas> yeah, a birthday :) a good friend of mine!
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13:05<andythenorth>V453000: more music such - maybe too piano for you :P
13:05<andythenorth>but wait for the synth :P
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13:15<@peter1138>no such thing as too much piano
13:15<@peter1138>as long as it's a real piano
13:16<@peter1138>or a good rendition of one
13:17<frosch123>hmm, nuts does not use 32px vehicles
13:17<supermop_>V453000: not a debussy fan i take it then?
13:17<andythenorth>bloody NUTS
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13:20*Wolf01 slaps frosch123
13:20<Wolf01>Revert r26526
13:21<Wolf01>And review my fix :P
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13:21<frosch123>no seeds in gui :)
13:22<Wolf01>I want to put my phone number in it
13:22<Wolf01>Seed in console doesn't work
13:22<frosch123>it did back then
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13:22<Wolf01>Now is borked
13:23<frosch123> <- only enables when all vehicles use 32px reference length
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13:23<frosch123>i wonder whether people will report it as bug at it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't :p
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13:26<Wolf01>What if you use ,1 ,3 for GfxDrawLine?
13:27<Wolf01>Looks less border
13:28<frosch123> <- but also looks weird
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13:30<frosch123>i guess i can also enable it when using only default vehicles
13:30<Wolf01>It will look weird anyway, but at least not confusing
13:30<frosch123>then i can blame it onto the grf
13:31<frosch123>@blame nuts
13:31<@DorpsGek>frosch123: blames nuts
13:32<Wolf01>Updated FS#6604 with patch to review
13:32<LordAro>what can i do
13:33<frosch123>blame nuts, easy to do
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13:33<Wolf01>I should make a script for this client to automatically link to bugs.o.o when one writes FS#xxxx
13:33<LordAro>@blame nuts
13:33<@DorpsGek>LordAro: blames nuts
13:33<LordAro>ok, now what
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13:34<LordAro>Wolf01: maybe a plugin for DorpsGek would be better?
13:35<LordAro>i used to know what bot DorpsGek was, but i've forgotten
13:35<Wolf01>Nah, too much spam
13:35<supermop_>frosch123: doesn't look weird to me
13:35<Wolf01>It already reports commits
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13:35<supermop_>the chiseled border represents the bounds of one vehicle/consist
13:36<supermop_>so no border for length of train bits
13:36<supermop_>or do i misunderstand what you think is weird
13:36<supermop_>to me, the train and truck depots should look differetn
13:37<frosch123>@fs 6604
13:37<frosch123>LordAro: done years ago
13:37<frosch123>also it's supybot
13:37<LordAro>ah yes
13:38<LordAro>well, that requires a specific command though, it doesn't look at "normal" messages
13:38<frosch123>supermop_: the vertical lines in truck depot separate vehicles, the vertical lines in train depot represent full-tile lengths
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13:42<LordAro>what *else* can i do?
13:43<frosch123>works for me, maybe you have weird settings that reload the config or something
13:43<Wolf01>frosch123, doesn't work in SE
13:43<frosch123>there are some rabbit holes
13:43<supermop_>frosch123: but they are drawn in different styles, which seems appropriate to me
13:45<frosch123>Wolf01: also work for me
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13:50<frosch123>Wolf01: also that is a meh patch to review. there are like 5 different methods to start a game (random, scenario, heightmap, load, ...) and they all use different methods to activate the settings. you can throw a D6 and on 1-5 something is wrong with the patch :p
13:51<Wolf01>Yes, that's why I said "to review" and not "fixed"
13:51<V453000>frosch123: seed :(
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13:51<Wolf01>BTW I'm totally against removing the seed from UI, change the UI with 2 tabs "base" and "advanced"
13:52<Wolf01>Maybe 3 tabs, one called "andythenorth" with only the green "generate" button
13:52<frosch123>no, the seed is completely misleading
13:52<frosch123>random settings completely change its meaning
13:52<frosch123>it's no exchange-string which encodes all game settings
13:52<frosch123>so it is pointless
13:53<Wolf01>The gui need to be fixed, removing features because the gui is misleading is bullshit
13:53<Wolf01>Seed is for terrain, not for what's over it
13:53<frosch123>like 3 people failed to fix the mapgen gui :)
13:54<Wolf01>Because no one even tried
13:54<Wolf01>Like the show stuff in transparency ui
13:54<frosch123>i think andy closed a task wih 100 reponses abou tit
13:54<Wolf01>Just silly mocks
13:54<frosch123>someone even wrote a html mockup to test diferent mapgen guis
13:56<frosch123>anyway, you have not yet stated a signle reason why the seed is useful
13:56<frosch123>i would claim that the "restart" command is more useful in every case
13:57<Wolf01>But I might know a good seed and want to reuse it, without looking for a savegame to restart
13:57<frosch123>well, try and fail :p
13:57<frosch123>i don't have the impression you know what the seed really did
13:58<Wolf01>I use the seed in other games which are seed based, some regenerate the same exact map with structures and shit, some others regenerate only the terrain
13:58<frosch123>both does not apply to the seed in ottd
13:59<frosch123>you have to remember every single mapgen setting in addition to the seed
13:59<V453000>could the seed be changed in order to remember the values as well then?
13:59<frosch123>the old seed has nothing to do with a map-exchange-string as you can find it in other games
13:59<V453000>I guess it won't generate industries etc the same way anyway right
14:00<V453000>well it did generate the map exactly the same as long as you had the same settings
14:00<Wolf01>It works the same in gnomoria, and there you can even set the origin to have a different map with the same seed, just another area of the generated world
14:00<Wolf01>BTW, dinner
14:00<frosch123>V453000: changing map size or hilliness already completely invalidates the old seed
14:00<V453000>even if it would be a feature only with newgrf developer tools or something it would still be helpful in some cases when I want to generate the same or similar map
14:00<V453000>that's fine
14:01<frosch123>if you are newgrf developer, what's wrong with using the console?
14:01<V453000>it doesn't invalidate it completely though, you can usually see the map have similar shapes so you can actually guess if you should make it bigger or smaller, less or more
14:01<V453000>I never used the console for openttd
14:01<V453000>or ingame console?
14:01<frosch123>ingame console
14:02<V453000>how would I do that?
14:02<frosch123>and even then "restart" is way more useful
14:02<frosch123>V453000: see screenshot above?
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14:02<V453000>well getseed I know
14:02<V453000>but how to use it
14:02<frosch123>and the lien above that?
14:02<andythenorth>how could seed be better?
14:03<andythenorth>also can we encode all trees with seed? :P
14:03<V453000>ok at least that, thanks frosch123 :)
14:03<V453000>wasn't aware of that way
14:10<andythenorth>shall I offer FS bounties?
14:10*andythenorth ponders
14:10<andythenorth>I lost a 50p bet in the forums and paid up for that
14:11<andythenorth>I can’t find a single feature request that is valid to close
14:12<andythenorth>there are 206
14:12<andythenorth>oh there is one
14:12*andythenorth wonders who can find it first
14:16<Wolf01>frosch123: I think also minecraft changes the terrain with the same seed and different settings
14:16<frosch123>andythenorth: if you keep doing that you make people open more task which they then can request closure for :)
14:17<Wolf01>It's always possible to write what it does in the UI and make a better UI
14:17<andythenorth>I will amend the rules frosch123 :P
14:17<andythenorth>caveats and exclusions apply
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14:18*andythenorth is bored, it’s 1596 :P
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14:27<Wolf01>Also, frosch123, do you know why seed doesn't work? Because nobody reads the usage of "newgame", so everyone uses "set generation_seed 1234" and "newgame" instead of "newgame 1234", which is even worse than having a seed which doesn't do what you want in the UI
14:28<Wolf01>I didn't figure out that newgame accepted a seed until you show it to me
14:30<frosch123>so, close the task?
14:31<Wolf01>I'm not so sure, I would close that and open a new one to refactor the entire SE and uncouple it from _settings_newgame
14:32<Wolf01>Also I would open a new one to change the SE genland UI
14:33<frosch123>well, SE is not mentioned a single time in the task. i also have trouble correlating SE with seed, but do what you like
14:35<Wolf01>What is valid for SE is valid for normal game, since they share the same functions
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14:37<andythenorth>Wolf01: are you allowed to close tasks? I can do it if not
14:37<andythenorth>but give me a 2 line rationale
14:37<Wolf01>Yes I can do what you can do
14:39<Wolf01>"frosch pointed out that you should use newgame 1234 to set a seed, set generation_seed 1234 won't work, by design" could be right?
14:40<andythenorth>it’s 6604?
14:40<andythenorth>Ah that’s James1101, I emailed him to invite him rto irc
14:41<andythenorth>Wolf01: “Flyspray clean up: not obvious what else should be done with this, so closing now. If this offends, discuss with Wolf01 in irc. Thanks for the report :)"
14:41<andythenorth>stick that on the end
14:47<andythenorth>413 left :D
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14:49<andythenorth>keep trying to find a reason to close
14:49<andythenorth>we blatantly don’t need it :)
14:50<andythenorth>but I can’t think of a good objection
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14:54<frosch123>hyperlinks are also a part of the storybook roadmap
14:54<frosch123>though more related to ingame things like towns and places
14:55<andythenorth>I was +1 to hyperlinks to project site
14:55<andythenorth>somehow, I wouldn’t want blue underlined text all over the vehicle UI
14:55<andythenorth>but eh, it doesn’t have to be used
14:55<frosch123>what about links in industry window to firs docs?
14:56<frosch123>or in newgrf settings window?
14:56<andythenorth>we have it there
14:56<andythenorth>it’s done
14:56<andythenorth>want vehicle info? Make a project website
14:56<andythenorth>we have 145 actual (or reported) bugs, why look for new ones :)
14:57<andythenorth>that argument is a bit unsustainable :)
14:57<andythenorth>could be applied to any new feature
14:57<andythenorth>I’ll leave it open :P
14:57<andythenorth>but george is nearly 10% of open FS
14:58<andythenorth>@calc 37 / 413
14:58<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 0.089588377724
14:58<andythenorth>@calc 1 / 413
14:58<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 0.00242130750605
14:58<andythenorth>I am 0.24% of FS :P
15:00<andythenorth>I did close some george requests earlier as ‘implemented’ though :)
15:00<andythenorth>that was good, they had been done, around 2009-2010
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you realize that by rejecting var B8 there is no chance the wild west grf will ever be done
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15:03<andythenorth>I will apologise to Bad Brett next time he shows up
15:04<andythenorth>$someone can blame me for ruining the best grf never released :)
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15:05<frosch123>i thought that was a landscape grf
15:05<andythenorth>george requests
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15:08<V453000>what is var B8?
15:12<V453000>I read it 3 times
15:12<V453000>I don't know for shit what it does XD some vehicle animation
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15:15<andythenorth>@summon george
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15:34<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: it allows you to animate the vehicles to travel less than a full step (which is quite far on 4x zoom), so slow vehicles will look less jump-y
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: fail, ! is an unary operator...
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15:35<V453000>is what I thought
15:36*andythenorth no understand
15:37<V453000>iz workaround?
15:38<andythenorth>but already haz checking neighbouring vehicles properties
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i always thought explicit access to random bits was a bit poor
15:39*andythenorth checks docs
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15:39<andythenorth>hmm, ok
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: but i don't quite get whether he's requesting CB10 to be allowed for accessing var 61, or whether var61 doesn't have access to random bits because there's no variable for it
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15:41<andythenorth>I assumed it was no var for random bits in var61
15:41<Eddi|zuHause>if the former, there was once an idea to split the "parent" into different groups of vehicles
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>like first vehicle in the train, first vehicle in the articulated chain, etc.
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15:45<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: is this you? o_O
15:45*andythenorth guessing random people with .de
15:45<Eddi|zuHause>that is till accessible?
15:47<Wolf01> <- newgame window andythenorth version
15:47<andythenorth>such :)
15:47<Wolf01>One button should say "advanced"
15:47<andythenorth>there is a whole thread in forums where I redesigned UI :)
15:47<andythenorth>it wasn’t great
15:47<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: but yes, that is me
15:48<andythenorth>6004 is probably essential eh
15:48*andythenorth leaves that
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15:52<frosch123>Wolf01: <- more mockups :)
15:53<frosch123>none of them adds a map preview
15:53<Wolf01>I don't see many games which add a map preview when generating a new map
15:54<frosch123>yeah, poeple have to regen 20 times until they like it
15:54<frosch123>it gets worse with settings like roughness which noone understands
15:54<andythenorth>I have to generate 20-30 maps to get a decent SV or NCG map
15:54<andythenorth>between the random cargos, and the random map :P
15:55<frosch123>it's worse in factorio since you only see the starting area
15:55<andythenorth>patches from < 2014 are about to get ‘unlucky’ if I think
15:55<Wolf01>*coff* minecraft *coff*
15:55<frosch123>andythenorth: closed tasks are hard to find
15:56<andythenorth>how many are there?
15:56<frosch123>i think we discussed three fs taks in the last 3 days which were already closed
15:56<Wolf01>I would like to make a UI like that one, but I don't know how to handle tabs, seem that tabs were removed from the entire game
15:56<andythenorth>frosch123: we can reopen them :)
15:57<frosch123>Wolf01: a patch is pointless, they get huge and then none agrees
15:57<frosch123>also we have tab-like things in various windows
15:57<Wolf01>Eh, I can't find them
15:57<andythenorth>I wouldn’t tackle a newgame UI currently
15:58<Wolf01>I was sure the old settings window had taps
15:58<andythenorth>looks like SE could get some love though
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>those were abolished when the tree was added
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>maybe tabs is what could save the order gui?
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15:59<frosch123>Wolf01: NWID_SELECTION plus some buttons to toggle the selection
16:01<andythenorth>order GUI needs set on fire
16:01<frosch123>_3298: i added your patch to my latest todo list :)
16:01<andythenorth>so many desires for so many orders
16:02<frosch123>andythenorth: there is a dicussion topic on the forums with many mockups
16:02<frosch123>it boils down to: we need factorio-style orders
16:02<andythenorth>oic :)
16:02*andythenorth gave up F when the biters showed up in the demo
16:02<andythenorth>never got to trains
16:02<frosch123>noone plays with biters
16:03<andythenorth>also I couldn’t work the things that insert to conveyors right
16:03<andythenorth>they placed in the wrong place
16:03<andythenorth>are biters equivalent to ottd disasters?
16:03<frosch123>biters are only for selling the game, not to actually play with them
16:03<frosch123>andythenorth: i guess they compare to ottd's money economy
16:03<andythenorth>there are 33 patches > 4 years old
16:03<Wolf01>Is there a way to specify a stringID without adding a real string?
16:03<frosch123>newbies love a "hard" game were you may bankrupt
16:03<andythenorth>are they unlucky patches? o_O
16:04<frosch123>Wolf01: what shall it show?
16:04<Wolf01>A string
16:04<andythenorth>oh some of these are patches I started testing
16:05<andythenorth>these are FAILING patches :P
16:05<frosch123>Wolf01: emoji?
16:05<Wolf01>Like SetDataTip((StringID)"Temp string just for a try", STR_NULL)
16:05<frosch123>maybe you mean STR_JUST_RAWSTRING, or STR_BLACK_RAWSTRING
16:06<frosch123>but you cannot pass the stringparams via SetDataTip
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16:10<andythenorth>_3298: repoened
16:10<andythenorth>reopened *
16:12<Wolf01>@summon alberth
16:12<andythenorth>@summon DaleStan
16:13<andythenorth>I want to shoot this pony
16:15*andythenorth wonders if nml gained a built-in for it
16:15<andythenorth>seems not
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>i think that behaviour changed
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16:16<andythenorth>I am checking
16:17<andythenorth>similar recollection
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16:22<andythenorth>can’t find anything
16:23<andythenorth>wtf are action D vars 93 to 96 for?
16:24<andythenorth>and what’s the idea of trying to extend sprites off to SE / SW from an adjacent tile?
16:25<andythenorth>that don’t work :P
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16:26<frosch123>93 to 96 are a myth
16:27<andythenorth>I’ve closed it, it’s bollocks
16:27<andythenorth>we all learn stuff, that’s from early days
16:27<andythenorth>not needed
16:27<andythenorth>ho, this behaviour bugs hell out of me :)
16:27<V453000>andythenorth: iz possible that gmail on macbook doesn't open odt?
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16:28<V453000>sounds weird af to me
16:28<andythenorth>V453000: NFI
16:28<V453000>don't you use that god forsaken operating system? :D
16:28<andythenorth>I do and gmail
16:28<andythenorth>.odt is what, open office or some shit?
16:28<V453000>wife got it from some school shit
16:29<andythenorth>I just opened an .odt in Word
16:29<andythenorth>shrug emoji
16:30<andythenorth>google docs can open them allegedly
16:30<andythenorth>and TextEdit on OS X, allegedly
16:30<V453000>I am opening it on windows easily in google stuff
16:30<V453000>I was assuming a browser based thing would work equally on mac
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16:31<andythenorth>I would assume same
16:31<andythenorth>chrome is equally crap everywhere, as far as I know
16:31<andythenorth>no platform favouritism
16:31<V453000>assumption iz, computers iz, works not
16:32<V453000>standard situation
16:32*andythenorth wonders how hard this really is? o_O
16:32<andythenorth>probably more hard than I want to know :P
16:32<V453000>not over 3000
16:32<andythenorth>at least 3000?
16:33<V453000>exactly 3000
16:35<andythenorth>got totally utterly bored with FS now :D
16:35<andythenorth>this one tipped me over the edge
16:35<andythenorth>trying to repro that means tracking down a manual grf to test, that matches up with a server
16:35<andythenorth>who even has manual grfs now?
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16:38<frosch123>andythenorth: does that window have a rescan newgrf button today?
16:39<andythenorth>it has ‘rescan files'
16:39<frosch123>andythenorth: the newgrf settings window in multiplayer has a rescan file buttion, so task can be closed
16:39<frosch123>was done whenever the new newgrf gui was written
16:39<andythenorth>no need to repro :)
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16:43<andythenorth>what loading indicator in transparency UI?
16:43<andythenorth>there isn’t one
16:48<andythenorth>it’s the train icon
16:48<andythenorth>I just assumed that was broken
16:48<andythenorth>I could never figure why we’d want invisible trains either
16:51<frosch123>andythenorth: <- just link that
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16:53<frosch123>many ideas, none convincing
16:53<andythenorth>why loading indicators need to be transparent?
16:53<andythenorth>there’s a setting
16:53<andythenorth>it’s a convenient toggle?
16:53<frosch123>it can block the view, but it does not need to be separate from the other texts
16:54<frosch123>not sure what the setting does
16:55<frosch123>either both buttons do the same, or they are independent and ORed :p
16:55<Wolf01>Mmmh, I can't understand how to use the NWID_SELECTION
16:56<frosch123>you define multiple child widget for it, which are the tab panes
16:56<frosch123>than you "select" one of them to show
16:57<Wolf01>That's what I'm looking for
16:57<andythenorth>eh 409 FS left :)
16:59<andythenorth> :)
16:59<andythenorth>project is 0% done
16:59<andythenorth>most wanted task is interesting :)
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17:00<frosch123>i thought we disabled the votes
17:01<Wolf01>frosch123: I have set lowered, disabled and focused
17:01<andythenorth>votes look disabled :)
17:01<frosch123>they are old votes
17:02<frosch123>2012 is the newest
17:02<frosch123>Wolf01: no idea why any of those would matter
17:02<frosch123>did you check the other places where it is used?
17:03<_dp_>istead of exporting subtile progress to newgrfs it would be much better to fix ingame display coords imo
17:04<Wolf01>Oh, it's a method of that specific widget, I looked in the window
17:05<frosch123>_dp_: but that would not involve digging up some ttd cheatsheet and making bold claims about what those vars should do
17:05<frosch123>(read: all requests for 80+x variables are bollocks)
17:06<_dp_>frosch123, they kinda need to be fixed anyway :p
17:06<_dp_>as well as subtile coords themselves
17:07<_dp_>turns changing length after rotation is a complete nonsense
17:07<frosch123>even factorio failed to fix that :p
17:09*andythenorth should go to bed eh
17:10<Wolf01>Ok, I think I used NWID_SELECTION the very wrong way
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17:12<_dp_>btw, I want to add more granularity (and range) to town growth speed
17:12<_dp_>is it a good idea to make patch on top of ones for #6378 and #6397?
17:13<_dp_>coz if I don't they'll have to be changed as well
17:14<supermop_>ok who has the list of trains in excel?
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17:15*_dp_ has list of trains in json
17:17<Wolf01>Ok, now I can show and hide stuff, but it's still keeping the position like if the hidden stuff is there (which is there)
17:17<andythenorth>I have list of my trains in python
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17:25<andythenorth>405 FS open
17:25*andythenorth bed
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17:27<frosch123>Wolf01: SZSP_xxx is for collapsing stuff
17:28<Wolf01>I used SZSP_NONE, it should collapse both directions
17:28<supermop_>should i bring computer to asia just so i can buy wifi on the flight there
17:28*_dp_ writes python that writes python that parses admin protocol inside admin protocol
17:29<_dp_>shit escalated quickly xD
17:29<Wolf01>I'll try with vertical
17:29<Wolf01>Still no change
17:31<supermop_>is it offensive to tell my client to have a fun time in HK and china?
17:31<supermop_>as a chinese national would delineating the two be a slight?
17:31*supermop_ has started many 2cc set arguments about this
17:32<frosch123>wish fun with traveling :p
17:32<supermop_>i'll be travelling too, but in korea
17:32<LordAro>supermop_: "have fun on holiday"
17:32<LordAro>"or business trip, whatever"
17:33<supermop_>its actually not a vacation but rather she has to leave and reenter country to get green card
17:33<supermop_>i hope i get vaporized
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17:47<supermop_>ok im out
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18:12<__3298>Wolf01, I've dealt with openttd windows resizing themselves before, perhaps you should check out how existing windows with that ability do it, e.g. the finances window
18:13<__3298>as far as i remember, stuff gets hidden completely via SetDisplayedPlane(0) followed by a ReInit
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18:34<Wolf01>__3298: could you see what it the problem?
18:35<Wolf01>I'm just mocking it to learn how the ui works, I was used to the old one
18:39<__3298>i think ReInit is missing after the SetDisplayedPlane calls
18:40<Wolf01>I didn't see a ReInit on other UIs
18:40<Wolf01>Maybe a finishInitNested?
18:41<__3298>company_gui.cpp, struct CompanyFinancesWindow
18:43<__3298>it doesn't even use NWID_SELECTION, but with some SetDisplayedPlane and ReInit it resizes itself to a tiny window and back to the full one
18:44<__3298>scratch that, it does use NWID_SELECTION, i just missed it
18:45<Wolf01>ReInit does nothing O_o
18:46<__3298>maybe it's some secret ingredient in the construction. i know i copied it and got a transparency window with a working resize button
18:46<Wolf01>Ok, it does change the window size
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18:46<Wolf01>But I don't really wanted that
18:46<__3298>... what then?
18:48<Wolf01>I get the same behaviour but with tabs vertically stacked
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18:49<__3298>i think i need to compile that to understand
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18:52<__3298>bah, base language changes, they always make the thing recompile everything. sooo slow
18:53<Wolf01>Yes, that's why I asked if it was possible to use a string :P
18:55<__3298>it is possible with those raw string thingy, but i think it's too much trouble because you need to make sure the parameter is set when the string is drawn
18:55<__3298>ah, it finished compiling
18:56<__3298>aaahhh, i see what you mean about vertically stacked
19:09<__3298>i have a suspicion, currently recompiling to confirm/deny
19:11<__3298>yup, that was it
19:13<__3298>having three widgets of type NWID_SELECTION isn't the right way, one is what you need
19:14<Wolf01>I started with one and named containers but got null pointers when trying to hide them
19:14<__3298>then you stuff your tabs in it, one composite (is that the right term?) widget like NWID_HORIZONTAL per tab
19:14<__3298>on the selection one you call SetDisplayedPlane with a parameter 0, 1, 2, ...
19:16<__3298>the order window's delete/stop sharing button works that way (dunno why, they could have made it one button which changes text and checks the context in its Onclick, but instead it's two buttons that get exchanged via NWID_SELECTION)
19:18<Wolf01>Ok, now it works
19:18<__3298>great, glad to be helpful for once
19:18<Wolf01>Thanks __3298
19:20<__3298>it's been years since i last messed with that stuff, without grep i wouldn't have remembered that order window button, but that was the key
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19:22<__3298>well, bedtime
19:23<__3298>or, as andy would put it: /me -> bed
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---Logclosed Sat Aug 26 00:00:29 2017