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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-08-28

---Logopened Mon Aug 28 00:00:32 2017
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03:06<andythenorth_>so did we move to github yet?
03:06*andythenorth_ has been afk
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06:06<blocage>is therthere is a way to printf in openttd source ?
06:14<_dp_>fprintf(stderr, ...) ?
06:18<blocage>_dp_, I will try ^^
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06:32<Wolf01>o/
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07:26<blocage>_dp_, that's work, I do not know what stupid think I did
07:48<Wolf01>You know what? I feel the genworld ui a bit confusing, for example the size VS edges parts
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08:25<Wolf01>http://imgur.com/a/jlUxq something like this maybe
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09:21<_dp_>somehow all the videos on youtube about rust are incredibly boring :(
09:21<Wolf01>Rust is incredibly boring
09:21<Wolf01>I started to play it on my own, because I got tired of people
09:22<_dp_>Wolf01, I mean https://www.rust-lang.org/ ;)
09:22<Wolf01>:|
09:23<Wolf01>Still boring
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09:26<_dp_>It's quite a promising language actually
09:27<_dp_>Imo the first one that looks like it can actually beat c/c++
09:30<_dp_>But in c++ you learn the basics and you can code. It will be a shitty code but you'll learn eventually
09:30<_dp_>And in Rust you kind of have to learn all the complex stuff before you can write anything useful
09:32<_dp_>like I get why oop sucks but wtf are traits and how am I supposed to use them
09:33<_dp_>or borrow checker that doesn't let me pass variables around
09:36<_dp_>It's cool that it's guaranteed to be safe but that's of no use if I can't get it to compile :p
09:36<blocage>_dp_, it'ssafe because you are not allowed to do unsafe stuff
09:36<Wolf01>Would you like it more to compile non working code?
09:37<blocage>Wolf01, unsafe code, does not mean unworking code
09:38<Wolf01>Asm and C exists for that, let it to them
09:38<blocage>and there is probably a lot of safe code that you can't do,just because the compiler cannot figure out that they are safe
09:44<LordAro>i mean, you can do unsafe stuff in rust
09:44<LordAro>but it's explicitly unsafe
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10:54<frosch123>LordAro: TrueBrain-Bot: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p9mgcx8mj <- is that the state of the discussion?
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11:00<LordAro>still can't read paste :p
11:01<LordAro>unless i curl it
11:01<frosch123>:/
11:01<frosch123>https://pastebin.com/eyrAbDHG
11:01<LordAro>ta :)
11:04<Wolf01>Quak
11:12<frosch123>LordAro: do you know how gitlab chat incorporates into the irc/discord "controversy" :p
11:14<Wolf01>A friend of mine is bitching that he isn't able to use ottd with screen
11:14<frosch123>what is "screen"?
11:15<LordAro>GNU screen?
11:15<Wolf01>Yes
11:15<LordAro>i see
11:15<Wolf01>He said that uses a different config than the one used when launching without screen
11:15<frosch123>all coop servers run inside screen
11:15<Alkel_U3>I use dedicated openttd in screen all the time
11:16<frosch123>Wolf01: direct him/her to readme.txt, it lists all the search paths :)
11:16<Alkel_U3>Wolf01: did he try whether by some black magic it would run in tmux?
11:17<Wolf01>frosch123: he is asking me what the readme is saying line by line... it seem he is not able to understand it
11:17<LordAro>i see no reason why running in a screen/tmux window would affect anything at all, for the dedicated server
11:17<frosch123>translate it to italian?
11:18<Wolf01>Also he is on fedora
11:18<Wolf01>A good reason to slap him
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11:20<Alkel_U3>"I need to run this game on my system, counting on your support" "Sure, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you"
11:20<Wolf01>+1
11:22<Wolf01>It took me 10 minutes to instruct him how to get rid of the "you need a baseset" error.
11:24<Wolf01>Also he doesn't have patience
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11:26<Alkel_U3>maybe he'd be happier with a remote X server
11:27<Wolf01>He has this old computer which runs as a server, so he wants to put some dedicated servers on it
11:29<Alkel_U3>hm, it's true that I can't think of a problem that would be blocking him from running it remotely in screen and wouldn't also interfere with running from window manager :-)
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11:30<Alkel_U3>unless he seriously broke something in which case he needs a flamethrower ant start from scratch, probably
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11:32<Wolf01>Ok, when he launched with screen the openttd.cfg disappeared *automagically* from the game folder
11:33<Alkel_U3>I'm not saying flamethrover, but... flamethrower.
11:34<Wolf01>http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/229/782/fb4.jpg
11:35<Alkel_U3>http://i.imgur.com/4V07LZU.gif
11:36<LordAro>frosch123: https://pastebin.com/tA7Pg3LM
11:37<frosch123>LordAro: "lack of self-hosted"? we did not want to host ourself, did we?
11:38<frosch123>LordAro: the circleci advertisement on github lists it as free for open source
11:38<frosch123>i did not verify that though :)
11:38<LordAro>linux is free, osx is not, afaict
11:39<frosch123>ok, interested in trying the gitlab ci?
11:40<Wolf01>All the people here please lend me an hand because I need a huge facepalm
11:40<LordAro>i can certainly give it a go
11:40<Wolf01>He executed screen as root
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11:40<Alkel_U3>Tactical facepalm primed! Fire! :D
11:41<Alkel_U3>ok, not very seasoned linux user, I assume
11:41<frosch123>time for new friends? :p
11:43<Alkel_U3>echo > /etc/friends
11:43<Wolf01>
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11:54<Wolf01>He changed the code of openttd-init now, to specify the path to ottd, because it was the "easiest solution"
11:55<Alkel_U3>https://media.tenor.com/images/54451401d52c0dd2fe9ee5752857d53c/tenor.gif
11:56<Alkel_U3>kinda reminds me of this recent gem https://askubuntu.com/questions/938606/dwarf-fortress-starting-during-apt-get-upgrade
11:56<Wolf01>XD
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11:58<Wolf01>o/
11:58<@Alberth>o/
11:59<Wolf01>Ahahahah now he can't reconnect to the server via ssh
11:59<@Alberth>:(
11:59<Wolf01>Fucked up badly
12:00<@Alberth>playing with firewalls? :p
12:00<Wolf01>No, ottd dedicated
12:00<Alkel_U3>well, that escalated much faster than I anticipated
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12:10<frosch123>Wolf01: did he set the server password via passwd?
12:10<Wolf01>I'm asking it
12:10<Wolf01>He ran the openttd-init with an error in the config, now he can't log on the server anymore
12:14<Alkel_U3>does he have local access or does he have the server tucked away far away from current location?
12:15<Wolf01>The server is at his home, but no way to use it locally
12:15<Wolf01>He doesn't have a compatible display
12:16<Alkel_U3>and no serial console enabled :P
12:16<Alkel_U3>(that saved me from having to reflash my Cubieboard2 at least once)
12:17<Wolf01>Eh
12:17<Alkel_U3>well, he can still mount the HDD in another computer and try to repair configs from there :-)
12:18<Wolf01>No other computer, just a laptop
12:21<Alkel_U3>my old laptop had eSATAp so attahing internal HDDs was rather straightforward but I think this port is no longer popular (if it ever was)
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12:37<Wolf01>Good, I think he fucked up badly
12:37<Wolf01>"I'm done with the server today"
12:37<Wolf01>XD
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12:38<andythenorth_>o/
12:38<Wolf01>o/
12:39<andythenorth_>iz?
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12:39<Wolf01>No
12:41<LordAro>no
12:44<andythenorth_>ok
12:44<andythenorth_>haz?
12:45<LordAro>yes
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12:52<LordAro>frosch123: my gitlab guy says the following:
12:53<LordAro>there's no OSX or windows runners available, even if you want to pay for them
12:53<LordAro>you can register your own runners and have them pick up builds tagged windows, osx, etc, if you've got the hardware though
12:53<LordAro>(While still using the gitlab.com free ones for everything else)
12:54<frosch123>ok, in summary: there is no osx compile farm on either gitlab or circleci?
12:54<LordAro>not trivially
12:55<LordAro>gitlab - not hosted, circleci - not free and very different to the 2.0 container based stuff they have for linux (for now, at the very least)
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12:55<LordAro>"we do have bamboo integration, if they wanted to move a piece at a time"
12:55-!-tux is now known as Guest3477
12:56<@planetmaker>means we can serve it bamboo clients?
12:56<@planetmaker>hello :)
12:56<LordAro>i'd imagine so
12:56<LordAro>o/ :)
12:56<@planetmaker>that sounds like a nice thing at least for transition... we have them
12:57<frosch123>no, they would still have to run on our hardware, right?
12:57<LordAro>basically, yeah
12:57<frosch123>with bamboo integration they do not mean them running the containers
12:57<LordAro>how cheap can OSX hosting get?
12:57<frosch123>so, it seems there is no way around maintaining a custom compile farm
12:57<LordAro>at least partially
12:58<LordAro>but if you're doing partially, might as well do the whole thing
12:58<frosch123>LordAro: the more sites are involved the harder it is to admin
12:58<LordAro>perhaps, but everything we're talking about now is less than it is currently
12:59<@planetmaker>yeah... admin work is a PITA
12:59<LordAro>https://www.macstadium.com/mac-mini/ $49/month :/
12:59<LordAro>i can't imagine the admin work (once it's setup and working) would be all that significant
12:59<@planetmaker>he... doesn't sound exactly inviting
13:00<frosch123>LordAro: anything more than a vserver is too expensive
13:00<@planetmaker>are we pondering to let go of our dedicated server?
13:01<LordAro>planetmaker: hmm?
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13:01<@planetmaker>well... with the CF possibly gone, and the repo, too.. there's mostly wiki - and bananas, and master server...
13:01<frosch123>planetmaker: the main goals are new compile farm and some git platform with pull-requests instead of svn and fs
13:02<@planetmaker>aye
13:02<frosch123>but yes, if we can get the compile farm externally, we can possibly downgrade to vserver
13:02<@planetmaker>how does pull requests relate to bug tracker?
13:03<@planetmaker>that's included basically in what we see at github and also gitorius, yes?
13:03<frosch123>planetmaker: github/gitlab have everything integrated, repository, issue tracker and code review
13:03<@planetmaker>*gitlab
13:03<@planetmaker>good :)
13:03<frosch123>gitorius :o
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13:04<frosch123>oh, that was even a thing once
13:04<@planetmaker>yup
13:04<@planetmaker>incorporated in gitlab meanwhile
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13:05<frosch123>hmm, osx vserver do not seem to exist
13:06<frosch123>so, back to http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/docker-openttd-cf/
13:06<frosch123>does anyone know what that does? :p
13:07<LordAro>magic involving cross compiling
13:08<@planetmaker>yeah... that's a OSX toolchain cross-compiled to run on x64 system
13:08<@planetmaker>but you knew that, too ;)
13:08<LordAro>it's certainly doable with more modern versions than what's done currently
13:08<LordAro>but still... ew
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13:11<frosch123>sounds like i need a vm to try some docker tutorials :p
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13:23<andythenorth_> do we have goals again? :)
13:25<andythenorth_>frosch123 new issue tracker or you want to keep FS?
13:26<frosch123>https://pastebin.com/UFuHtbaE <- new summary of options, i guess self-hosted stuff is back in town
13:26<frosch123>andythenorth_: i certainly want to archive fs data for commit-reference
13:26<andythenorth_>meh to full atlassian
13:26<frosch123>i am definitely against mail-list-based trackers, but they were not even suggested :p
13:27<andythenorth_>i am a satisfied paying bitbucket user, but eh
13:27<frosch123>i have hardly experience with gitlab or github, so they are potato/potato to me
13:27<andythenorth_>same
13:28<andythenorth_>'github won' definitely applies, but when I use github I don't love it
13:29<andythenorth_>os x build - could just pay for an os x compile environment :p
13:29<andythenorth_>get OS X users to patreon fund it
13:30*andythenorth_ afk again, but services where other people get the down notifications are better :)
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13:37<andythenorth_>frosch123 interesting read https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12056035
13:37<frosch123>https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/issues/related_issues.html#related-issues <- that's the type of thing that makes gitlab weird
13:37<frosch123>the self-hosted community edition does not allow to link between issues? wtf?
13:38<andythenorth_>special :)
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13:38<andythenorth_>accidentally crippled or deliberate? o_O
13:39<frosch123>https://about.gitlab.com/products/ <- the other features sound irrelevant
13:39*andythenorth_ doesn't know how github tracker works
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13:40<andythenorth_>one if the github vs. gitlab pages said that on github only those with repo access can manage issues
13:40<frosch123>andythenorth_: problem with most comparisions is that they seem to assume web-projects
13:41<frosch123>so they all say "gitlab has ci", which was just disproven
13:41<andythenorth_>i am on my phone so I can't test in my openttd fork
13:41<frosch123>shall i create some issues for nrt? :p
13:41<andythenorth_>actually I probably could but won't :
13:41<andythenorth_>frosch123: try it :p
13:42<andythenorth_>wolf01 has a fork too
13:42<andythenorth_>get your own :)
13:42<andythenorth_>i would have pushed git harder, but i didn't want to annoy those who prefer hg :)
13:42<frosch123>apparently git has won by 2012
13:43<andythenorth_>that's roughly when we dropped svn at work
13:44<andythenorth_>we picked some losing tech previously so now we try really hard to pick the winnig option :)
13:45<Wolf01>You can CI with travis on github
13:45<Wolf01>I should try it
13:46<frosch123>that only does java
13:46<frosch123>i already checked all the advertisement :p
13:46<andythenorth_>we already CI from github
13:46<andythenorth_>just we don't think out CF is survivable :)
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13:47<andythenorth_>cross-compiling CI is not widely advertised commercial service
13:48<frosch123>github interlinks issues when mentioned in a comment
13:48<andythenorth_>yup
13:48<frosch123>i can't imagine a self-hosten gitlab not doing that... maybe they mean something else?
13:48<andythenorth_>doesn't everything?
13:48<andythenorth_>plan.io does that
13:49<frosch123>anyway, since external ci is failure, we can go back to the initial goal to upgrade the compile farm :)
13:49<frosch123>the rest were only related goals which came up
13:49<andythenorth_>in order, hosted CI seems to be 70% php/ruby/python/css, 20% iOS, 10% Android
13:50<andythenorth_>probably c++ shops don't allow it off their LAN
13:50<andythenorth_>surprising how many people still have svn box under a desk :p
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13:51<milek7>gitlab also links issue ids
13:52<milek7>these 'related issues' looks like weird tags
13:52<andythenorth_>bbl
13:52<frosch123>milek7: yes, but does self-hosted gitlab also do that?
13:52<frosch123>https://about.gitlab.com/products/ <- sounds like it doesn't
13:53<LordAro>frosch123: the self hosted software is no different to gl.com
13:54<milek7>https://docs.gitlab.com/ce/user/markdown.html#special-gitlab-references
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13:55<frosch123>LordAro: so is that about page complete nonsense?
13:56<LordAro>i'll refine - the free hosted version is no different to the community edition
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13:57<milek7>there aren't any osx cross-compilers in docker package?
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14:08<Wolf01><frosch123> that only does java <- https://docs.travis-ci.com/ it looks it does a long list of languages
14:09<frosch123>Wolf01: https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/languages/cpp/ <- only linux
14:10<frosch123>hmm some "os x" comments in the middle
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14:12<LordAro>i don't like travis
14:12<LordAro>it only has 2 images (ubuntu 12.04 & 14.04) and they rarely get updated
14:12<milek7>https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/reference/overview/
14:13<milek7>it seems to have os x
14:13<milek7>but anyway travis don't host artifacts
14:25<Wolf01>https://travis-ci.org/Wolfolo/DesignPatternsCSharp heh... mine it is not a buildable project... It won't work
14:26<Wolf01>If you’re using other test frameworks the process is similar. Please note that the MSTest framework is not supported, as it only works on Windows/Visual Studio.
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16:03<idl0r>is there anything you guys would say is a must have addon/extension?
16:05<frosch123>heqs and fish have no competition
16:05<frosch123>but they cover areas which are not used by everyone
16:07<idl0r>fish 2?
16:07<idl0r>or fish ship set?
16:07<idl0r>or both? :D
16:08<frosch123>not both
16:08<frosch123>either is fine
16:11<V453000>RENDAR :> Chances are I might have arctic trees finished
16:11<V453000>bad news is every other climate has more of them XD
16:11<V453000>well not toyland
16:12<frosch123>well, they are no frozen yeti
16:12-!-sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@78.96.209.89] has quit []
16:12<frosch123>but the white hats are kind of cute
16:12<frosch123>do you already have idea for desert trees?
16:12<frosch123>though iirc there is only one :/
16:13<V453000>there are 2 cacti
16:13<V453000>idk yet
16:13<V453000>the more scary part is the 18 types of tropic trees
16:13<V453000>+ 2 cacti
16:13<frosch123>i guess in earlier sets you would just have used a yeti with a sunshade
16:13<V453000>XD
16:13<V453000>XD
16:13<V453000>maybe
16:14<V453000>currently I don't have a yeti there, basically for software migration reasons
16:14<V453000>but I might re-add them
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16:15<frosch123>i guess a pineapple would make a nice tropic tree
16:16<frosch123>brown/yellow trunk, something green on top
16:16<V453000>I have many sketches but let's see what becomes reality
16:16<frosch123>maybe durians
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16:17<frosch123>https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/No_durians_sign.jpg/170px-No_durians_sign.jpg <- yeti holding signs
16:21<V453000>._.
16:23<frosch123>alterenatively you could define rainforest as zerg creep
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16:46<_3298>frosch, did you see the split-in-two version of my window placement patch (FS#5451) yet? yesterday (before the split) you seemed to be interested in it, but i didn't see a reaction / question after that
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16:48<frosch123>yes, i saw it, looks good
16:53<_3298>note that i spotted an indentation issue in the patch about child window placement afterwards. that shouldn't go into trunk like that (line 1636 after applying) if you intend to push it
16:56<frosch123>i'll fix it
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17:19<V453000>isn't andythenorth sleeping?
17:19<andythenorth>is it?
17:19<V453000>iz
17:19<V453000>https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=199487
17:20<andythenorth>such snowline
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17:21<andythenorth>nice eh V453000
17:22<V453000>it will still get some love but I am quite happy with it tbh
17:22<andythenorth>can’t ask for more
17:23<V453000>well you can ask for anything :P
17:25<andythenorth>ponies for the fields?
17:25<V453000>:D I don't know, but no fields for this version
17:25<V453000>it's already much
17:25<V453000>If something then I would do river edges probably
17:25<V453000>but nah, later
17:26<V453000>I hate rivers anyway
17:26<V453000>iz consistent XD
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17:31<andythenorth>400 FS eh :)
17:32<andythenorth>someone has been busy closing them while I was away
17:39<andythenorth>V453000: how doing desert trees?
17:40<andythenorth>same but different?
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17:58<andythenorth>such bed
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18:53<Wolf01>Alkel_U3: my friend found what happened, he installed amahi and something fucked up with that and reset the network interface to some old configuration...
18:56<Alkel_U3>well, now he can start towards another fuckup :-)
18:56<Wolf01>He decided to move to debian
18:57<Alkel_U3>I think that is sane
18:59<Alkel_U3>Also I should not keep forgetting to disconnect my relay client on phone when trying to fall asleep :-)
18:59<Wolf01>Ahah
19:00<Wolf01>Put phone on quiet hours mode
19:00<Alkel_U3>That's kinda my fuckup
19:00<Wolf01>I think I'll watch 2 more star trek episodes
19:01<Alkel_U3>I'll probably have to install extra app for that, this is Android 5 with touchwiz
19:03<Alkel_U3>Nothing fancy but still sure am glad it's at least that. It doesn't fewl that much a step backwards after getting used to 6
19:04<Wolf01>Never used android >4.0
19:07<Alkel_U3>I used to dislike it but I changed mind with 6
19:08<Alkel_U3>Ok, Alkel sleeping, scene 1, take 2 :-)
19:08<Alkel_U3>Merry Christmas.
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22:20<Rygrass>can someone tell me if autoclean_protected = True and Default is set to 36... does that mean that they are protected for 3 years of game time only ?
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