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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-09-24

---Logopened Sun Sep 24 00:00:10 2017
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01:48<@Alberth>o/
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02:45<andythenorth>o/
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02:54<andythenorth>hmm
02:56<andythenorth>‘short buy menu’, ‘multiple generations’, ‘vehicles never expire: on’
02:56<andythenorth>opposing goals?
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03:01<Eddi|zuHause>you should design for vehicles expiring...
03:01<Eddi|zuHause>even if you don't use it
03:02<Eddi|zuHause>also, you can manually hide vehicles
03:02<@Alberth>o/
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03:23<andythenorth>lo Alberth
03:25<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: +1
03:25<andythenorth>can’t remember why I always have vehicle expiry off
03:26<andythenorth>might be an artefact of newgrf development
03:26<andythenorth>or maybe there was a plane in a pikka set I needed
03:26<andythenorth>is a ‘toggleexpiry’ a possible console command?
03:27<andythenorth>it would also run reset engines
03:31<Eddi|zuHause>you can "set <whatever>", and then resetengines
03:31<Eddi|zuHause>also, people might want to set expiry without resetting
03:31<Eddi|zuHause>especially when you set it to on
03:33<Eddi|zuHause>e.g. you play from 1950 to 2000, but then you want to keep all the 2000 vehicles around forever, and switch no-expire on
03:33<Eddi|zuHause>if you then ran "resetengines", you would get the 1950 engines back
03:33<andythenorth>possibly I should also stop setting ‘VEHICLE_NEVER_EXPIRES’ for all vehicles :P
03:33<Eddi|zuHause>which you probably don't want
03:48*andythenorth wonders
03:48<andythenorth>if there are ‘short’ and ‘long’ wagons
03:48<andythenorth>is the length relative to date? Or fixed in perpetuity?
03:48<andythenorth>i.e. short is 4/8 -> 6/8
03:48<andythenorth>and long is 6/8 -> 8/8
03:49<andythenorth>or are there short, medium, long?
03:50<Eddi|zuHause>fixed
03:50<Eddi|zuHause>or maybe not
03:50<Eddi|zuHause>maybe freight is always 4/8 and 6/8 and passengers always 6/8 and 8/8
04:06<andythenorth>pax is always 6/8 and 8/8
04:06<andythenorth>seems to work well
04:06<andythenorth>freight at 4/8 and 8/8 works well
04:06<andythenorth>but at some point, long freight wagons are wanted by realism
04:06<andythenorth>also look good
04:10<Eddi|zuHause>well, there's nothing really stopping you from switching up the lengths in a new generation
04:11<andythenorth>it’s mostly a question about buy menu names
04:12<andythenorth>“Box Car” and “Box Car”, but visually one is obviously longer than the other
04:12<andythenorth>or “Long Box Car” and “Short Box Car”
04:12<Eddi|zuHause>leave out the long/short
04:15<andythenorth>redundant eh?
04:17<@Alberth>new improved shiny box car :p
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04:18<@Alberth>if people are too stupid to read the stats, the name won't matter either :)
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06:50<TrueBrain>why are we so inconsistent in Windows stuff .... the project files are x64 or Win32, but openttd-useful is win64 and win32
06:50<TrueBrain>how can I script stuff efficiently if people keep doing this? :D
06:54<__ln__>remove people from the equation
06:56<TrueBrain>Trump is already taking care of that
06:56<TrueBrain>(easy troll is easy :P)
06:59<@Rubidium>TrueBrain: that's the Windows way... after all, system32 is 64 bits and syswow64 is 32 bits
06:59<TrueBrain>we did not made it better by also not following one way :)
07:00<@Rubidium>sorry about that?
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07:00<TrueBrain>YOU SHOULD BE SORRY :P
07:00<TrueBrain>hihi
07:00<TrueBrain>:)
07:00<TrueBrain>hmm .. for some reason cl.exe is out hiding again now
07:01<andythenorth>TrueBrain: SORRY
07:01<TrueBrain>hi andy :)
07:03<TrueBrain>I love how PowerShell sometimes mimics Linux .. but not just
07:03<TrueBrain>you can do rm -rf
07:03<TrueBrain>but the f can be filter or force, so you have to specify which you mean
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07:05<Eddi|zuHause>i love how microsoft recently turned into the "extend" phase of .net... like they made this nice new cross-compatible standard, that is missing a lot from the old standard. and then they went "oh we have this shiny new compatibility library that contains all the missing stuff, but it'll be windows-only"
07:05<TrueBrain>lol
07:05<andythenorth>I love trains
07:06<andythenorth>V453000: such trees http://www.railpictures.net/photo/631432/
07:06<TrueBrain>this andy, always derailing the conversation :P
07:07<TrueBrain>so many bugs in the Docker for Windows mount system ..
07:08<TrueBrain>svnversion works in subdirectories of the mount .. but not in the root of the mount ..
07:08<TrueBrain>so how am I going to tell MSBuild about this shiny include directory I have in store for him ...
07:13<TrueBrain>every answer comes down to: by modifying the project files
07:13<TrueBrain>I mean, come onnnnnn
07:20<TrueBrain>so you can set INCLUDE in the env
07:20<TrueBrain>you have to set useenv=true too
07:20<TrueBrain>but then it can no longer find cl.exe
07:20<TrueBrain>as it is not in the PATH of the ENV .. and all of a sudden it becomes stupid, and doesn't resolve it himself ...
07:20<TrueBrain>uuugggghhhh
07:21<TrueBrain>I hate undocumented unclear shit
07:21<andythenorth>:|
07:21<TrueBrain>it normally overwrites the env .. UseEnv prevents it ...
07:21<TrueBrain>why doesn't it ADD to them?! :(
07:23<TrueBrain>guess it is easier to find the include path of VS, and drop the files in there
07:23<TrueBrain>which is a nasty workaround ...
07:23<TrueBrain>Rubidium: how did you solve that for CF?
07:27<@Rubidium>probably a global setting in an antique version of MSVC
07:28<TrueBrain>I cannot believe I am stuck on something this trivial :D
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07:32<andythenorth>wow, so many wagons I could add https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Western_Railway_wagons#Telegraphic_codes
07:32<andythenorth>32 types eh
07:32<andythenorth>all the way to FF
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07:43<TrueBrain>I love how everyone keeps telling me I have to open something in the interface .. this is a Docker running a headless windows ... ffs :P
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07:53<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: have you tried clicking on "Start"?
07:56*andythenorth has 99 wagons to draw :|
07:57<andythenorth>multiple generations suck :P
08:02<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: if you're done, can you start with the 1000-ish missing vehicles from CETS? :p
08:03<@Alberth>or do something in the 1000 building set :p
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08:09<TrueBrain>even the develop console doesn't want to work :P Lol
08:09<Wolf01>Moin
08:16<TrueBrain>finally I managed to inject my own include path ...
08:16<TrueBrain>omg
08:21<LordAro>TrueBrain: oh hey, did i screw up my VS version detection? i (obviously) didn't test it myself, but was assured that the version of VS i set would have it
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08:22<LordAro>and why are both of the projects i work with active today
08:22<TrueBrain>LordAro: it turns out it has it, but not out of the box :)
08:22<LordAro>i've only got so much time!
08:22<TrueBrain>fallthrough is part of the stdc++latest, for what-ever-reason
08:22<LordAro>TrueBrain: ah, of course
08:22<TrueBrain>the default is stdc++14
08:22<TrueBrain>so the project needs to be switched
08:22<TrueBrain>but there are no project files to switch :D
08:22<TrueBrain>not sure if you can detect that tbh, from code
08:22<LordAro>i guess that's technically more correct than gcc/clang
08:23<LordAro>irritating tho
08:23<TrueBrain>specs say it should be part of stdc++11
08:23<TrueBrain>but ... VS2017 is weird
08:23<LordAro>...oh
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08:23<LordAro>frosch123: quak
08:23<@Alberth>was VS ever sane?
08:23<TrueBrain>down to 6 warnings and 5 errors
08:23<TrueBrain>genworld_gui.cpp does bitshifts VS2017 doesnt agree with (or warn for)
08:23<LordAro>TrueBrain: sure? http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/attributes seems to suggest otherwise
08:23<TrueBrain>and sse4 files are giving errors
08:23<LordAro>but w/e
08:24<TrueBrain>LordAro: owh, lol .. yesterday a page suggested C++11 .. but I might have been blind
08:24<TrueBrain>then it is even more obvious :D
08:24<TrueBrain>so we either need a project file with stdc++latest flipped on, or we need a patch to fix stdc++14 :)
08:25<TrueBrain>(or VS2017)
08:25<TrueBrain>so many options! :D
08:25<TrueBrain>_mm_cvtsi64_si128, identifier not found
08:25<TrueBrain>might have been fixed btw, I had to downgrade a few versions :)
08:25<TrueBrain>but I am getting somewhere!
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08:47<TrueBrain>yesssss, it finally compiles automated .. give or take a few errors I still need to resolve :D
08:47<TrueBrain>viewport_sprite_sorter_sse4: negative subscript
08:47<TrueBrain>oh-oh :D
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09:01<LordAro>TrueBrain: woo
09:01<TrueBrain>the wind is blowing?
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09:02<ChoHag>How can I deal with the problem of there being more passengers waiting in a town's stations than there are people living in the town?
09:02<ChoHag>Apart from just shipping them around more efficiently, obviously.
09:07<frosch123>LordAro: which msvc version supports static_assert?
09:09<LordAro>frosch123: without looking, probably 2013ish?
09:09<LordAro>2010, according to https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh567368.aspx
09:10<frosch123>which _MSC_VER is that? :p
09:11<frosch123>let's guess 1900
09:19<LordAro>1600
09:19<LordAro>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Visual_C%2B%2B#Internal_version_numbering
09:19<frosch123>what douchebag wrote the sse code?
09:20<frosch123>#undef and #define the same thing differently in various headerfiles, seriously?
09:31<Wolf01>Mmmh, how could I sync data between multiple devices without a server? And I also need to delete that data after all the devices synced, not just after the first one
09:32<Eddi|zuHause>the cloud!
09:32<Wolf01>It's already in the cloud
09:35<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27916 /trunk/src (stdafx.h viewport_sprite_sorter.h) (2017-09-24 15:35:27 +0200 )
09:35<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Enable usage of static_assert for MSVC
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>then i don't understand the question
09:37<Wolf01>I can't put the whole database in the cloud because there is a 100kb limit, each device could edit the entries and add new ones
09:38<ChoHag>You know there's no _actual_ difference between "cloud", "device" and "server", right?
09:38<Wolf01>I thought to put the edited/added entries on the clod and the other devices would get them
09:38<Wolf01>ChoHag: please don't give me lessons about IT
09:39<ChoHag>Hey I'm not the one that can't run rsync.
09:40<Wolf01>I'm trying to solve a problem, and I don't need to lose myself into dialectical exercises
09:42<ChoHag>Wow you're clearly too clever for the likes of me.
09:42<ChoHag>Best of luck.
09:43<Wolf01>Fine
09:43<ChoHag>Long words and *everything*...
09:43<Wolf01>Please, stop
09:43<ChoHag>Do you now like being belittled? Then don't be arrogant.
09:43<ChoHag>(See I know fancy smart-sounding words too!)
09:43<Wolf01>I don't want to get picky, and I could be really picky
09:44<ChoHag>The word you're looking for is "pedantic".
09:44<ChoHag>Also "rsync".
09:44<Wolf01>One less to read
09:45<ChoHag>Oh noes! Am I being /ignored?
09:45<ChoHag>However will I cope?
09:46<ChoHag>I *need* people who can't shift bits around on a network to listen to my sarcastic blatherings!
09:46<Wolf01>Eddi, any idea?
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10:03<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: so you don't have enough space in the server, and want to keep the updates around as short as possible?
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: do you know how many clients there are?
10:04<Wolf01>Yes, there's a policy of 100kb per application, I could submit even 10MB of data but it won't be synced until it drops under 100kb, so I need to keep it as small as possible
10:04<Wolf01>No, I don't know how many devices there are
10:05<Wolf01>And the sync happens automatically, I just need to write something in the local storage
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>but it needs to be in the local storage long enough that the other devices notice the update?
10:06<Wolf01>Yes
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>what happens if devices get temporarily disconnected?
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>or new devices appear?
10:07<Wolf01>That's the point, I don't even know if the other devices are connected
10:08<Wolf01>The new devices only get the new elements, but I'm thinking about doing a full sync via file
10:08<supermop_home>bus route A takes 60 days, and B takes 90
10:09<supermop_home>wonder if I should have them each on 15 day interval, separated by 5
10:09<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you should do something like git versioning?
10:09<supermop_home>or 30 days separated by 15
10:09<Eddi|zuHause>each change gets a hash that builds upon a previous hash
10:10<supermop_home>the 30 days would make it easier to scale to 10 days separated by 5
10:10<Wolf01>A sort of incremental sync?
10:10<Eddi|zuHause>yes
10:10<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: how many generations in CETS? :P
10:10<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: design goal was one every 10 years
10:10<supermop_home>also route A is already yellow in cargo flow graph, where as B is dark green
10:11<andythenorth>and how many classes of wagon?
10:11<Wolf01>The problem is to avoid the build up of incremental changes, I already noticed that with about 15 changes I fill up the 100kb
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: about 3-4 passenger classes and some freight classes
10:13<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: you should keep the last X changes around in 50kb (roll out the newest change by deleting the oldest)
10:13<Wolf01>Maybe I could do a timeout thing, the changes older than "ver - 10" will be automatically deleted, and the devices which find a mismatch with their "ver" ask for a full sync via file instead
10:13<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: and keep the other 50kb available for special requests if a device "missed" some changes
10:14<Wolf01>Yes, I think I'll try this way
10:14<Wolf01>+1
10:16<Eddi|zuHause>so the request would work like: device A notices it is too far behind the latest sync, and puts its current hash there
10:16<Eddi|zuHause>device B reads the hash, compiles X updates from this hash towards the "future" and puts them in the remaining 50kb
10:17<Eddi|zuHause>device A reads these special updates, and replaces its "request-hash" with the now newest
10:17<Eddi|zuHause>repeat until up-to-date
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10:18<Eddi|zuHause>if device C also notices it's not up-to-date it must wait until this process is finished
10:19*andythenorth has about 20 wagon classes right now
10:19<andythenorth>with FIRS cargos, it’s not implausible to have more
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the passenger classes are commuter, normal, accelerated and express
10:22<andythenorth>any mail classes?
10:22<andythenorth> o_O
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>they come with mail cars which can also load valuables and express
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>and for other cargos there are box, open, flat, liquid and some specialized (e.g. livestock)
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>i probably forgot some
10:24<Wolf01>I think I understood the logic, but it seem to work better with a SOAP/REST infrastructure, I should try it with the local storage, as I don't want to write many requests back and forth, I can't control what happen inside it and I don't think there's a way to pause it (without exceeding the quota)
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10:47*andythenorth wonders whether to do one wagon class per FIRS cargo type
10:47<andythenorth>that would be 64
10:49<frosch123>anti nuts :p no refittability by order
10:54<Wolf01>Mmmh, you bake a cake in the oven, but what do you do if the cake is a cold one? Still bake?
10:54<supermop_home>you want the cake to be cold?
10:55<supermop_home>let it cool down after it comes out of the oven
10:55<Wolf01>A cake which goes in the fridge and not in the oven, like a cream cake
10:55<supermop_home>the cake part still gets baked
10:55<supermop_home>then when it cools off, you add the other parts
10:55<Wolf01>Ok, but how do you call the process of making that kind of cake?
10:55<supermop_home>then put it in fridge
10:56<supermop_home>I would still say baking in english
10:56<supermop_home>but pastry chefs may have more specific jargon
10:57<supermop_home>could say 'prepare'
10:57<Wolf01>Mmmh
11:00<Wolf01>Yes, it's the same in italian, I think I just choose the wrong example for my exercise, difficult to find the right words to explain the procedure
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11:08<frosch123>how fitting, the only cake of that type i know is called "cold dog" :p
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11:14<Eddi|zuHause>i never understood what dogs have to do with it
11:14<frosch123>i guess they are equally cold and sticky
11:14<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, the only reason why that is "only" a cold preparation is because you get the cookies pre-baked
11:15<Eddi|zuHause>you can also get pre-baked cake bases, and just fit them with fruits and stuff
11:16<frosch123>hmm, cake without prebaked stuff
11:16<Wolf01>You don't have ice cream cakes in Germany?
11:16<frosch123>there are fried things with ice inside
11:16<frosch123>*fryed?
11:16<Wolf01>Wat
11:16<frosch123>well, not easy to make :p
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>i think i have seen ice-cakes
11:17<Wolf01>I mean something like the Viennetta
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>but you wouldn't associate that with "baking"
11:18<Wolf01>Eh, neither do I, but you still say "I'm going to bake a cake"
11:18<frosch123>i would never consider vienetta a cake :p
11:18<frosch123>it's just ice with chocolate
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>ice-cakes aren't technically cakes in this sense
11:19<Eddi|zuHause>so you wouldn't call preparing an ice cake "baking"
11:19<Wolf01>We also have a fruit juice / yogurt type of cake where even the biscuit part is not baked, you just put everything in the fridge and wait
11:20<Eddi|zuHause>that's funny because "biscuit" literally means "twice baked"
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, in german you also have sort of a distinction between "Kuchen" (something that is prepared and then baked) and "Torte" (something that is baked and then prepared)
11:24<Eddi|zuHause>like you would make "Erdbeertorte" by baking the base, then putting the strawberries on (and some gelatine stuff). while you make "Apfelkuchen" by preparing the base, putting the apples and some covering on top, and then bake the whole thing
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>(those are two "entry level" cakes you could do without studying the craft for ages :p)
11:26<frosch123>i baked various things, but never those :p
11:31<Wolf01>Ok, to avoid problems I call the methods "TestCakeA" and "TestCakeB" :D
11:34<Eddi|zuHause>reminds me of Outpost, where the materials were called "Metal1", "Mineral2" or so, instead of real materials
11:36<frosch123>outpost 1 was hilariously unfinished
11:36<Eddi|zuHause>yes
11:37<Eddi|zuHause>was very frustrating when the manual talked about game features that were nowhere to be found
11:37<Wolf01>It's more like the movies scripts where the script authors don't know the weird things and often use "technobabble" or something like it
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>"sir, the tech is overteching"
11:38<Wolf01>Yeah, for example: "A specialised form of technobabble known as treknobabble (and listed in scripts simply as '[TECH]') was devised for the various long-running Star Trek television programs and movies, which relied upon quasi-scientific solutions to dramatic problems"
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>the difference between those and outpost was, that outpost didn't go through the finishing steps
11:39<Wolf01>andythenorth should do a set with "cargo 1, cargo 2, raw material 5"
11:39<Eddi|zuHause>where the real science would be put in
11:53<andythenorth>Wolf01: 'fridge cake’
11:54<andythenorth>official UK term :P
11:55*andythenorth thinks the 64 wagon classes idea fails
11:55<andythenorth>only so many ways to arrange pixels in a 4/8 length
11:56<Wolf01>:D
12:00<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27917 /trunk/projects (14 files) (2017-09-24 18:00:29 +0200 )
12:00<@DorpsGek>-Add: MSVC 2017 project file generator. Most noticeable, std:c++latest is enabled.
12:02<frosch123>^^ if anyone can test that :p
12:03<Wolf01>Sure
12:04<frosch123>hmm, oh, so it is actually 141, not 150?
12:04<Wolf01>Yes, 141 -> 2017
12:04<frosch123>why do they have 3 different version numbers ...
12:05<Wolf01>Because now it only changes the sdk
12:06<Wolf01>It's missing the solution anyway
12:09<frosch123>oh, actually not all files are subject to generation
12:12<Wolf01>http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Concrete-and-Steel-Outdoor-End-Table-How-to-Bu/ supermop_home, is that you?
12:19<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27918 /trunk/projects (33 files) (2017-09-24 18:19:29 +0200 )
12:19<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r27917): Next attempt for MSVC 2017
12:19<frosch123>now with sln
12:22<Wolf01>Compiles and runs fine
12:22<frosch123>do you have sse4?
12:24<Wolf01>Dunno, maybe, I have a i7 5820k, it should support that set
12:25<frosch123>well, then tb has to figure out what's wrong with the farm
12:28<Wolf01>I was thinking if it would be possible to change the ///< doxygen comments to something else, I know that for doxygen they have a specific meaning, but VS is bitching about invalid xml (because it thinks the < opens a tag there, as /// is used for xml documentation)
12:28<frosch123>/!< or ///<
12:28<frosch123> //!< or ///<
12:28<frosch123>those are the two options
12:29<Wolf01>//!< should work, I'll see "ENUM_VALUE !< description" but always better than "you can't have a space there"
12:30<Wolf01>Maybe I'll make a branch on my github fork for that
12:32<Eddi|zuHause>so it's pretty much like i expected... there are 5 "winners" and only one "loser"
12:36<frosch123>well, for a start: the difference to last time do not sum up to zero
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12:51<Wolf01>Mmmh The Dig on steam but the classic version, no hd remake like Grim Fandango :(
12:53<Wolf01>Ok, got to go, BBL
13:09<andythenorth>5/8 would be a stupid length choice for wagons eh
13:09<frosch123>6/8+5/8+5/8 :)
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13:12<andythenorth>works nice for 1 tile train yes
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: must be voter fraud :p
13:26<andythenorth>2 kinds of hopper wagon?
13:26<andythenorth>http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-SrK1xLL1W-Y/ToCyLQbJ6-I/AAAAAAAAB-I/c0ZomxxVJa0/s1600/HAA%2Bfin%2Bpic%2B1.jpg
13:26<andythenorth>https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/R6448-LN_3147812_Qty1_1.jpg
13:26<andythenorth>how much variety is too much?
13:27<Eddi|zuHause>none. there should be exactly 1 vehicle in the set that does everything!!!
13:28<andythenorth>not convinced :P
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>what's the difference between the two? (on pixel level)
13:29<andythenorth>a small amount
13:30<Eddi|zuHause>just use them for 2 generations?
13:31<andythenorth>one is coal cargos
13:31<andythenorth>one is quarry cargos
13:32<andythenorth>IRL
13:32*andythenorth knows too much
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>that is not really a difference useful to show in the game
13:34<andythenorth>it might only make sense if I pursue the ‘wagons for specific cargos’ route further
13:34<andythenorth>so ‘stone and sand wagon’ rather than 'hopper'
13:34<andythenorth>‘coal and coke wagon’
13:34<andythenorth>not sure it scales well :P
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>it collides with future unknown industry set compatibility
13:35<andythenorth>it’s also clunky to find the names
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>and autorefit networks
13:35<andythenorth>there is no need for total separation
13:35<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27919 /trunk/projects (4 files) (2017-09-24 19:35:51 +0200 )
13:35<@DorpsGek>-Fix: MSVC 2015 and 2017 project files referenced some MSVC 2010 files
13:38<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27920 /trunk/projects (4 files) (2017-09-24 19:38:03 +0200 )
13:38<@DorpsGek>-Fix: MSVC 2015 and 2017 project files referenced some MSVC 2010 files
13:38*andythenorth wonders if Europe has different wagons for coal / aggregates
13:39<andythenorth>ha 8/8 two wagons :P https://www.hornby.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/h/j/hj6145.jpg
13:39<Eddi|zuHause>plenty of different wagons going around europe, surely
13:50<andythenorth>loads
13:53<andythenorth>coal hoppers seem to tend to http://briansolomon.com/trackingthelight/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/RWE_564_in_curve_IMG_0777.jpg
13:53<andythenorth>and other hoppers to https://farm7.static.flickr.com/6081/6103315805_6758dec218_b.jpg
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13:53<andythenorth>coal is low density
13:54<andythenorth>dump trucks have same, coal haulers have higher sides than stone haulers (for same chassis arrangement)
13:54<andythenorth>not sure how I’d name them in game though
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13:56<andythenorth>“Lightweight Hopper Car"
13:56<andythenorth>“Strong Hopper Car” :P
14:29<andythenorth>maybe coal is ubiquitous enough to just have a “Coal Car"
14:29<andythenorth>I already did that for Wood
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15:13<andythenorth>untidy train formation http://www.cavalexmodels.com/Train-formation-66040.html
15:13<andythenorth>probably needed integer length at the station :P
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15:38<Wolf01>So in Germany won the civil world again
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16:19<Eddi|zuHause>if by "win" you mean "on the brink of total collapse", then yes
16:21<Wolf01>Bah, I don't think so, you preferred the extreme right wing?
16:21<Eddi|zuHause>no
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16:24<Eddi|zuHause>but if you look at it a little bit deeper, the parlamentary politics over the past 70 years worked like this: there are two opposing large parties, and one of them picked a small party and formed the government with it. but then there appeared more and more small parties, so that neither of the large parties could form a working government. then the two large parties made a common government, which even further accelerated this erosion
16:24<Eddi|zuHause>of the large parties
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>over the past 20-ish years that erosion was quicker on the left, and in the past 5-ish years it took up speed on the right
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>now we're facing (probably) the first 3-party government on the federal level
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16:26<Eddi|zuHause>or 3.5, if you count the bavarian anomaly called "CSU"
16:26<Wolf01>Here is even worse, we can continue as we are, give the country to the right wing or to the party which doesn't even know how politics work and hurt themselves in confusion (like pokemon), also we have a lot of little parties which are there only to make confusion... and the left wing is no more
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>some of those parties with deep ideological differences
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: just a figure to underline this erosion: the two parties that formed the government got 80% of the votes in 2013, and now they got 55%
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>(roughly)
16:38<Wolf01>I don't think we saw numbers over 45% on the last 20 years
16:56<supermop_>what the hell kind of resolution is 1670 px wide
17:01<FLHerne>1680x1050 is a thing
17:01<FLHerne>Maybe lose 5px on each side for underscanning or bezels or window borders or [...]
17:02<FLHerne>(did I miss some context?)
17:14<supermop_>project photos we got from a photograPHER
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17:37<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: well, 2013 had an exceptional number of "others" (<5%), so with 70% of the votes you got 80% of the seats (-ish)
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21:49<Samir>Just played OpenTTD, thanks for the flash back. I was addicted to it as a teen. I just wanted to thank all the developers who made it happen.
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---Logclosed Mon Sep 25 00:00:11 2017