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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-10-01

---Logopened Sun Oct 01 00:00:20 2017
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02:26<andythenorth>o/
02:30<@Alberth>moin
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02:44*andythenorth puzzled about fruit + veg vehicles
02:44<andythenorth>what colour to use
02:44<andythenorth>seems I ran into this puzzle with ships too
02:48<andythenorth>bright yellow with CC roof? o_O https://www.track-shack.com/acatalog/Peco-NR-P140-N-Gauge-Box-Van-Refrigerator-Type-Fyffes-Yellow272.jpg
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02:57<@Alberth>works for bananas :)
02:58<@Alberth>but sounds good to me, nice bright colourful wagons
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03:12<andythenorth>using colour is tricky, because of CC
03:12<andythenorth>and using shape is hard too
03:12<andythenorth>http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-3/p88995243-3.jpg
03:12<andythenorth>I’ve tried drawing vents of different kinds, but it looks like a prison wagon
03:13<andythenorth>http://davidglennsimmons.com/archive/images/sp2train9.jpg
03:15<@Alberth>colour worked for fridges
03:15<@Alberth>thin red line for the CC colour
03:16<@Alberth>maybe add a non-cc colour near or around it, eg a black line above it or so?
03:16<andythenorth>fruit trams in hog are green-brown http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/road-hog/push/LATEST/docs/html/static/img/nutbrook.png
03:16<@Alberth>also, I ran out of coffee, perhaps I should make more
03:16<@Alberth>they even painted the roof :p
03:17<@Alberth>it's almost splitting the wagon in 3 pieces
03:17<andythenorth>coffee is an easy question
03:18<@Alberth>can't you make the line more diagonal?
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03:19<andythenorth>a CC line?
03:19-!-Arveen [~Arveen@p5DE769F5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: I like trains]
03:19<andythenorth>or black
03:19<andythenorth>hmm
03:22<@Alberth>or more horizontal even, eg between the yellow lines http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/between_yellow.png
03:22<@Alberth>maybe extend to the edge of the wagons
03:23<@Alberth>below or above the red line is another option
03:23<@Alberth>indeed, coffee answer is "yes" :p
03:34<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/revisions/ceefb3be70fb/entry/src/graphics/pony/box_car_pony_gen_1A_template.png
03:34<andythenorth>various fruit cars and livestock cars
03:39<@Alberth>roof isn't affected, which looks better imho
03:40<@Alberth>can't you have two or more wagons, and use a non-conflicting colour version depending on CC colour?
03:41<@Alberth>eg yellow bananas wagon, except for the yellow comapny who uses a red wagon
03:41<@Alberth>assuming recolouring is mostly automagic
03:43<andythenorth>it’s an idea
03:43<andythenorth>other options:
03:43<andythenorth>- drop fruit vehicles (wagons, trams, trucks, ships)
03:43<andythenorth>- find a new shape that works for wagons, trams, trucks, ships
03:44<@Alberth>solving the problem universal, eh?
03:44<andythenorth>yup
03:45<@Alberth>fwiw, I like the most bottom one at the template, for not being so vertical
03:46<@Alberth>but perhaps just a style matter for one or so generation
03:47<@Alberth>more variation implies colour, I think
03:47<@Alberth>which implies you can't have everything CC
03:48<@Alberth>if you solve that, you can add more variation by shape of the colours
03:48<@Alberth>perhaps for different wagoin types or transport modes
03:49<andythenorth>currently favouring the one with 2CC and brown doors
03:50<@Alberth>nice one, mostly due to non-conflicting green and brown :)
03:51<@Alberth>any particular reason why a wagon must be completely CC?
03:51<@Alberth>or mostly CC, probably
03:52<@Alberth>ships and trucks are perhaps another matter
03:52<@Alberth>no engine to colour CC :)
03:52<@Alberth>hmm, so trains are the special case?
03:53<andythenorth>not sure :)
03:53<andythenorth>more and more I just return to the base set :)
03:54<@Alberth>in that case, you're done already :p
03:54<andythenorth>without intending it, Horse has recreated more and more of the base set decisions, but scaled to FIRS etc
03:54<andythenorth>the rubber truck in base set is quite ‘farm-like’
03:54<andythenorth>or the grain truck
03:54<andythenorth>so either brown, or silver-grey for fruit vehicles I think
03:55<@Alberth>English modeled, in 1990 :)
03:56<andythenorth>hmm
03:56<andythenorth>I use dark red for rubber though, it looks better imho
03:56<@Alberth>tbh CC-ing the truck/ship/aircraft is a bit weird
03:56<@Alberth>not every company in RL paints its vehicles in one colour
03:57<andythenorth>looks good when they do though :) https://nl.dbcargo.com/file/rail-nederland-nl/8380580/VO43wppuWQeIgyat3Ob5M_43YPg/5509816/data/freight_wagon_catalog_v2011.pdf
03:58<@Alberth>definitely
03:58<@Alberth>as a wild idea, maybe extend default set instead?
03:59<andythenorth>:)
03:59<andythenorth>I’ll end up like V453000 ;)
04:00<@Alberth>I don't see you making BRIX :)
04:01<andythenorth>maybe not :P
04:01<andythenorth>also bbl
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04:01<@Alberth>bye
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06:07<Wolf01>o/
06:10<@Alberth>o/
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06:32<__ln__>do you think people in catalonia are expecting the spanish inquisition?
06:33<@Alberth>looks not unlikely, if it's not there already
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07:04<Wolf01>https://www.flickr.com/photos/itlug/37321983396/ :D :D :D
07:05<Wolf01><__ln__> do you think people in catalonia are expecting the spanish inquisition? <- nobody expect the spanish inquisition
07:07<Wolf01>https://www.flickr.com/photos/itlug/37339249422/ and https://www.flickr.com/photos/itlug/23518745748/
07:12<Wolf01>Wow https://www.flickr.com/photos/itlug/36660773164/
07:16<@Alberth>ha :)
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07:52<frosch123>the pink train would fit into horse
07:55<Wolf01>Sure
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09:08<andythenorth>ho a new FS
09:13<Wolf01>o/
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09:20<andythenorth>hmm
09:20*andythenorth designing colour combinations
09:20<andythenorth>quite addictive
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11:55<andythenorth>quiet
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27923 trunk/src/lang/polish.txt (2017-10-01 19:45:39 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>polish: 15 changes by McZapkie
14:01<V453000>ok so funny story
14:01<V453000>most of my work is very often based on After Effects and making a robust system there
14:01<V453000>every single of my graphics replacement sets so far has ended because After Effects scene grew too large and messy
14:02<V453000>BRIX won't be any different :D
14:02<V453000>the amount of hacks I need to do in order to be able to output what I need right now is so high that for next version I will have to rework the whole system :D
14:02<V453000>to be fair, this current system is adopted from first versions of RAWR sooo
14:02<V453000>not too bad
14:04<V453000>but in general I am trying to make a system which is trying to do way too much for relatively little reason, just becomes messy inevitably
14:07*V453000 has learned his lesson
14:07<andythenorth>automate!
14:07<andythenorth>V453000: TBH, I find this never gets old https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46h7oP9eiBk
14:08*andythenorth biab
14:08<@Alberth>yep, that's how software works, if you throw a problem at it which it doesn't understand, trying to contain the disaster generally fails, as it's leaky, it doesn't catch all cases correctly
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14:09<@Alberth>so indeed, the proper solution is to reconsider how to deal with all cases from the ground up
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14:33<V453000>andythenorth: :)
14:34<V453000>Alberth: yeah, well making this kind of workflows in most cases has to expect that things will expand and will need massive extensions and flexibility, but this size of stuff is just nuts
14:34<V453000>also, the problem was that I was doing things from the beginning and then I realized I want to do hacks and special effects to terrain
14:35<V453000>and once I started changing the terrain in one place, it has to happen in all others, and somewhere like in tunnels which are already complex as all hell, this means death :D
14:35<V453000>I'm just going to photoshop it which will probably even look the best, but yeah
14:35<V453000>there are other issues in line :D
14:39<andythenorth>modularity :P
14:40<@Alberth>trouble is you can't be flexible in any direction
14:40<@Alberth>ie some directions must be stable, or there is nothing to build on
14:41<@Alberth>the difficult part is usually deciding when you want to go too far, and need to reconsider how to do things
14:42<V453000>well sure, there is always a limit but generally you can have more flexible setups
14:46<@Alberth>definitely, there is no upper limit on the complexity you can make in software :)
14:46<andythenorth>fruit and veg http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8658/horsey_eat_your_greens.png
14:46<andythenorth>eat your greens
14:46<Wolf01>Soylent ones
14:47<@Alberth>apple-red
14:47<@Alberth>rename to apple cars
14:47<V453000>I love them andythenorth
14:47<V453000>the bottom wagons are amazing
14:47<Wolf01>Looks good
14:47<V453000>no fancy shit but they look awesome
14:47<V453000>just a normal box wagon with vertical lines, but it looks seriously good
14:48<Wolf01>A bit too perfect, time to start making 3562 versions with graffitti and rust
14:52<andythenorth>automate that :P
14:53<andythenorth>randomly shift colour of pixels
14:53<andythenorth>Erorr: no cargo visible
14:53<Wolf01>Nono, it should have "readable" writings and have nice figures
14:53<andythenorth>nvm
14:54<andythenorth>got to fix livestock cars next
14:54<andythenorth>and log cars
14:54<andythenorth>and intermodal
14:54<andythenorth>and silo cars
14:55<andythenorth>and FIRS
14:55<andythenorth>and Sam
14:55<andythenorth>oops
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15:01<andythenorth>also http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8659/horse_such_efficiency.png
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15:01<andythenorth>such efficiency on sprites
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15:04<V453000>damn great
15:04<V453000>666 out of 666
15:04<andythenorth>‘Fruit & Veg Car’ or ‘Fruit & Vegetables Car'
15:04<andythenorth>?
15:05<@Alberth>no abbreviations, imho
15:05*andythenorth pictures a 7 year old saying ‘veggg’ with a hard g
15:05<V453000>Refrigerated car? :P
15:05<andythenorth>V453000: white one is fridge
15:05<V453000>Rusty Fridge Car
15:05<andythenorth>vent car
15:05<andythenorth>cool car
15:05<andythenorth>insulated car
15:05<andythenorth>produce car
15:05<andythenorth>apple car
15:05<andythenorth>potato car
15:05<andythenorth>tomato car
15:05<andythenorth>coffee car
15:05<andythenorth>fresh car
15:06<andythenorth>farm car
15:06<V453000>Slug-free car
15:06<andythenorth>I will put that in as easter egg
15:06<V453000>ha
15:06<andythenorth>slug egg
15:06<andythenorth>April 1
15:06<andythenorth>all wagons are eggs
15:06<andythenorth>hauled by slug engine
15:06<V453000>nuts & brix release date, ggggg
15:06<V453000>nice
15:06<andythenorth>check game date
15:07<andythenorth>switch sprites
15:07<V453000>freeze whole game for 3 seconds
15:07<V453000>unfreeze when it's 2nd april
15:07<andythenorth>set speed to 0 on April 1
15:07<V453000>never seen glitch :D
15:07<andythenorth>cb 36 don’t work that way :P
15:07<V453000>k :D
15:07<V453000>sounds glorious
15:07<andythenorth>all winners
15:08<andythenorth>Fruit & Vegetables Car is long eh
15:08*andythenorth wonders if german wins or loses that one
15:08<andythenorth>usually German translation comes out super long, but occasionally it has a ready-made word
15:08<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: ^
15:08<V453000>you could just call it fruit car just like vanilla does
15:08<andythenorth>I could
15:08<V453000>I would
15:08<andythenorth>it confused me tbh
15:09<andythenorth>I have had them in-game for a while
15:09<V453000>yeah because you are defining a confusing frvg cargo :D
15:09<V453000>can't just have FRUT because nonono
15:09<andythenorth>no is FRUT now
15:09<andythenorth>changed it some time
15:10<andythenorth>also refits coffee, cassava, etc
15:10<andythenorth>and slugs
15:10<V453000>oh
15:10<V453000>yeah I remember there was some mess around it
15:10<andythenorth>'learnings’
15:10<V453000>:D
15:10<andythenorth>is slug a cargo?
15:10<V453000>not yet
15:10<andythenorth>needs to be
15:11<andythenorth>ship in train with BOOM
15:11<V453000>boom is explosives in FIRS3?
15:11<andythenorth>yes
15:11<V453000>fuck sakes
15:11<V453000>JAVA is coffee, now boom is explosives
15:11<andythenorth>sakes is one letter too long
15:11<andythenorth>not a cargo label
15:11<V453000>more labels which don't sound like the actual name pls :D
15:11<andythenorth>FUCK is fine
15:11<V453000>rename all labels to FUCK
15:11<V453000>is universal enough word
15:12<andythenorth>plenty of 4 letter words available
15:12<V453000>y
15:12<andythenorth>I can think of 5 easy
15:12<andythenorth>without trying
15:12<andythenorth>7 now
15:12<V453000>yeah
15:12<andythenorth>ok
15:12<V453000>:D
15:12<andythenorth>10
15:12<andythenorth>stopping now
15:12<andythenorth>not cargos though
15:12<andythenorth>also my kids play game :P
15:13<V453000>anything can be a cargo
15:13<andythenorth>BUTT is probably allowed
15:13<andythenorth>they’re not supposed to say it, but they do
15:13<V453000>well my daughter can already say shit and use it in correct times, sooo
15:13<andythenorth>SNOT
15:13<V453000>whenever something isn't going the way she wants it, there it goes
15:13<andythenorth>with accent?
15:13<andythenorth>or perfect English?
15:13<V453000>in czech obviously
15:14<V453000>it's not literally translated as shit, you would translate it as "to ass" literally but yeah, we use it when something is going wrong
15:14<andythenorth>we have invented a whole language for swearing-without-swearing
15:14<andythenorth>which I now use at work too :P
15:14<V453000>:D
15:14<V453000>I think czech is very diverse in terms of defining a sub-optimal situation
15:15*andythenorth back to sprites also
15:15<andythenorth>how to draw tank cars?
15:15<andythenorth>I hate drawing tanker vehicles
15:15<V453000>haha
15:15<V453000>V shaped cylinder incoming?
15:15<andythenorth>such render
15:15<V453000>for some extra difficulty
15:16<andythenorth>I am using Pikka’s :P
15:16<andythenorth>original sprite is ok, but cheats shading
15:16<andythenorth>probably best strategy
15:16<andythenorth>lying about lighting direction makes better sprites imho
15:16<V453000>laym
15:17<V453000>you mean mirrors the rotations?
15:17<andythenorth>nah, stuff light higlight at both ends of – view
15:17<V453000>wot
15:18<andythenorth>look at original tank car
15:18<andythenorth>also Turner Turbo, MSJ 250
15:18<andythenorth>lots of the RVs
15:18<andythenorth>all the truck cabs are lit wrong, but it looks better
15:19<V453000>I see what you mean
15:19<V453000>yes
15:19<V453000>basically any double headed train :P
15:19<V453000>hm
15:20<V453000>when I see the original vehicles, my energy to try and make brix vehicles is quickly reducing :D
15:20<V453000>they're just too good
15:20<andythenorth>can see point
15:20<andythenorth>ogfx…not so much
15:20<V453000>"obviously" :P
15:21<V453000>btw in regards to "mirroring 4 sprites and ignoring shading"
15:21<V453000>my best sprites ever regarding this http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts/repository/changes/gfx/maglevhopper.png
15:21<V453000>4/4, cube is cube, you just shade it once, clone it, always looks that way :D
15:21<V453000>ultimate win
15:22<V453000>also iz chips heaps :)
15:23<andythenorth>ha ha
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15:23<andythenorth>such cube winning
15:23<V453000>and they look great
15:23<andythenorth>space openttd?
15:23<andythenorth>black tiles
15:23<V453000>also the transparency was really fun to draw in pixel pushing
15:23<andythenorth>starfield background
15:23<andythenorth>towns are space stations
15:23<@Alberth>starfield tiles :p
15:23<V453000>andythenorth: there is a reason why brix water is black :P
15:24<V453000>was meant to make ships as spaceships
15:24<andythenorth>use water cycle for animated starts
15:24<andythenorth>stars *
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15:30<Wolf01><andythenorth> space openttd? <- you won't believe me if I say I was thinking about it this morning
15:31<V453000>confirmed
15:31<frosch123>we don't believe you, you were thinking about lego instead
15:32<Wolf01>Also that, but I think it was something I've seen there which made me think to apply space to OTTD
15:33<andythenorth>space lego train?
15:33<andythenorth>I posted one
15:35<andythenorth>Horse doesn’t have these http://www.trenesymas.com/WebRoot/StoreES3/Shops/64100264/53A9/9FF6/BBFD/9388/6F40/C0A8/2AB8/8F0E/MARKLIN_46363.jpg
15:35<andythenorth>which you seem to use for ~everything in Europe
15:36<@Alberth>didn't you have mining supplies too?
15:36<andythenorth>ENSP and FMSP
15:36<andythenorth>mining supplies considered and rejected iirc
15:37<@Alberth>ok
15:37<V453000>YETI supplies
15:37<@Alberth>does that fit on a train?
15:37<V453000>ofc
15:37<@Alberth>yeti itself already needs a wagon
15:39<andythenorth>hmm stake wagons
15:39<andythenorth>is the name apparently
15:39<V453000>steak
15:39<andythenorth>rare in UK
15:39<andythenorth>this one is boss https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/94259_1483470_Qty1_1.JPG
15:40<andythenorth>BRIX
15:40<V453000>N
15:40<V453000>brix vehicles will never exist
15:40<V453000>ever
15:40<andythenorth>sad times
15:40<@Alberth>stake wagons are typically for wood, afaik
15:41<@Alberth>I'd expect them in norway ans sweden
15:41<@Alberth>*and
15:42<andythenorth>I have a wood car
15:42<andythenorth>in European countries they seem to be used for lots of things
15:42<@Alberth>lots of industry in germany
15:43<@Alberth>hmm, container transport too, I guess
15:43<andythenorth>yup
15:43<@Alberth>for all countries not at sea
15:43<@Alberth>ie german industry :)
15:43<andythenorth>not sure it adds to gameplay
15:43<andythenorth>already got open wagon, flat wagon, wood wagon
15:44<V453000>flatbeds are the shit
15:44<V453000>cargo visible
15:44<V453000>win
15:44<V453000>... need to draw many sprites for individual cargoes... :P
15:44<andythenorth>hmm
15:44<V453000>unless you do hacks with "covered cargo" and similar shit
15:44<andythenorth>mostly visible
15:44<andythenorth>and if tarpaulin, then it recolours
15:45<@Alberth>containers would be nice if you get lots of different ones, imho
15:45<V453000>but in general flatbeds have the biggest visual effect of loaded cargo, because empty they are super empty, hoppers already have the general outline structure with a hole -> structure with heap
15:45<andythenorth>agree
15:45<V453000>yeah randomized flatbed cargoes = ultimate win
15:45<andythenorth>got them
15:46<@Alberth>done! :)
15:46<andythenorth>but maybe even more wagon types with visible cargo? o_O
15:46<@Alberth>pick random wagon type that matches with the cargo :p
15:47<andythenorth>too easily done :P
15:47<andythenorth>that would be a free-for-all
15:47<andythenorth>especially in Steeltown
15:48<andythenorth>dedicated wagon type for every cargo IRL
15:48<andythenorth>no refits needed ever
15:48<@Alberth>RL doesn't care about good looks :)
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15:58<V453000>=D 33 GB of RAM used when rendering track spritesheet
16:05<andythenorth>nicely done
16:05*andythenorth bed
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---Logclosed Mon Oct 02 00:00:21 2017