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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-10-02

---Logopened Mon Oct 02 00:00:21 2017
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04:25<Wolf01>Moin
04:26<Wolf01>Shit, I found a huge problem in my app :(
04:36<crem>What is the volume of the problem?
04:36<crem>Moin.
04:36<crem>In litres.
04:38<Wolf01>350 litres of tears
04:43<Wolf01>Waiting for the app to explode
04:45<Wolf01>It didn't, but now I have to revert like 5 commits
04:45<Wolf01>:(
04:47<Wolf01>And I bet the shelved changes won't apply without conflicts
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07:26<@peter1138>Uh oh.
07:39<Wolf01>I was lucky, I just finished and seem to work now
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07:44<Wolf01>Mmmmh, how do I load my temporary key to build the app on vs.com?
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08:01<Wolf01>Ok, it can't load the certificate since is password protected :(
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09:48<supermop_>yo
10:02<Wolf01>o/
10:06<supermop_>how's it going
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10:20<@Alberth>o/
10:20<supermop_>hi Alberth
10:26<Wolf01><supermop_> how's it going <- out for a walk since my connection is TFU again
10:30<supermop_>nice
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11:21<supermop_>need to follow up on an interview i did friday
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12:12<Wolf01>https://xkcd.com/1897/ they should connect self driving cars to Twitch, the Twitch-plays-Pokémon challenge was a success
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12:23*andythenorth ponders livestock wagons
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12:27<@Alberth>boxcars with holes :p
12:27<andythenorth>isn’t it
12:28<andythenorth>there’s no RL reference for ‘modern’ livestock cars
12:28<andythenorth>have to invent some
12:28<andythenorth>but shape is pretty non-variable
12:28<@Alberth>number of livestock layers may vary, mostly
12:29<@Alberth>probably depending on stock height
12:30<@Alberth>livestock ship could be an inspiration?
12:30<@Alberth>scale is way off though :)
12:30<Wolf01>Stop providing cattle wagons after 1990^
12:30<Wolf01>?
12:31<Wolf01>Too much realism?
12:31<andythenorth>too much
12:31<andythenorth>is annoying
12:31<andythenorth>UK cattle wagons look like this http://www.nrm.org.uk/globalmedia/NRM_CT_937613_2.png
12:31<andythenorth>forever
12:31<andythenorth>can only really vary doors, and make it longer
12:32<Wolf01>https://i.pinimg.com/736x/4a/a2/ea/4aa2ead7583174c8d37d49ef8ce1b505--peterbilt--sexy-trucks.jpg make modern ones like this?
12:32<andythenorth>could do a well between the wheels
12:32<andythenorth>low-height cattle wagon :P
12:33<@Alberth>don't provide new livestock wagons after 1990?
12:34<@Alberth>ie current design works
12:37<Wolf01>Just draw intermodal cattle containers and forget cattle wagons
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12:37<Wolf01>Quak
12:37<Wolf01>https://i.ytimg.com/vi/kLzV7lppm-8/maxresdefault.jpg <-
12:38<Wolf01>After 1990 make everything intermodal
12:38<frosch123>hoi
12:39<andythenorth>Warrigal: that’s legit :)
12:39<andythenorth>actually
12:39<andythenorth>oops
12:39<andythenorth>Wolf01: ^
12:40<andythenorth>Wolf01: picture of cattle containers is good find
12:41<frosch123>oi... it's a container?
12:41<andythenorth>yup
12:41<andythenorth>also there are horseboxes which look ‘modern’ for 1960 https://i.ytimg.com/vi/dMdJ9pz99iA/maxresdefault.jpg
12:41<andythenorth>also used for prize cattle :P
12:42<frosch123>that looks like it is for a single horse
12:42<frosch123>does the royal train have wagons like that?
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12:46<andythenorth>probably should
12:46<Wolf01>Even intermodal pax, lego already tried it: https://brickset.com/sets/4559-1/Cargo-Railway
12:46<supermop_>horse thing is for valuable racehourses
12:46<supermop_>horses
12:47<supermop_>Wolf01: i remember that train from catalogues of my youth
12:48<andythenorth>also prize cow
12:48<Wolf01>I always wanted a lego train and I never got one :(
12:48<andythenorth>Wolf01: I could sell you some
12:48<andythenorth>overwhelmed by Lego here
12:48<supermop_>me neither
12:48<andythenorth>some has to go
12:48<supermop_>i wanted the airport monorail
12:48<andythenorth>I never had a lego train when I was a kid
12:48<supermop_>the red one
12:48<andythenorth>have over-compensated :P
12:49<Wolf01>I don't have money or space to start with trains now
12:49*andythenorth thinks everyone must have too much Lego
12:49<supermop_>also remember the jets with the clam-shell passenger cabin?
12:49<andythenorth>probably why Lego sales are down
12:49<andythenorth>supermop_: and the baggage conveyor in the terminal
12:50<Wolf01>I have too few work, not too much lego
12:50<Wolf01>Space isn't really a problem when you have money
12:50<andythenorth>there is a weird imbalance between number of people unemployed in EU
12:50<andythenorth>and number of companies in EU who can’t hire skilled staff
12:50<supermop_>lego town must have been very balmy
12:51<supermop_>as most public buildings are just a small half enclosed glass wall
12:51<andythenorth>yup
12:51*andythenorth biab
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12:51<Wolf01>And number of companies who need to hire but can't afford it
12:52<supermop_>and most cars don't have side windows
12:52<Wolf01>supermop_: https://brickset.com/sets/4565-1 this also was one of my dreams
12:52<supermop_>also even blacktron asteroid bases just had a neon green glass quarter-dome
12:53<supermop_>no pressurized spaces
12:53<Wolf01>:D
12:53<supermop_>probably fine as the space suits are printed on and can't be taken off anyway
12:54<supermop_>ooh yeah
12:54<supermop_>i remember the big spreads of train scenes in the big catalog
12:55<Wolf01>I still have the catalogs
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13:43<andythenorth>http://railpictures.net/photo/631192/
13:54<@Alberth>looks a bit fake, imho
13:58<andythenorth>I was in a dry storm once
13:58<andythenorth>in Freiburg
13:58<andythenorth>we don’t get them much in UK
13:58<andythenorth>anyone been to Freiburg? o_O
13:59<V453000>evening
14:00<Wolf01>https://www.hanselman.com/blog/TabsVsSpacesAPeacefulResolutionWithEditorConfigInVisualStudioPlusNETExtensions.aspx interesting
14:00<andythenorth>lo V
14:00<V453000>how are we doing?
14:00<Wolf01>o/ V
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14:01<andythenorth>we walked up a random hill in Freiburg and found some kind of massive cross on a viewpoint
14:01<Wolf01>"I don't indent my code. I type it in one line in uglify form. That way people will notice I am a pro coder." Win
14:01<andythenorth>which was probably this http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMK55R_Hirzbergkreuz_Freiburg_im_Breisgau_Germany
14:01<andythenorth>steel cross on a hill, in a lightning storm :P
14:06<@Alberth>:)
14:07<V453000>this brix shit is starting to be come self torture
14:07<V453000>need to finish asap
14:08<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8661/horses_on_horses.png
14:08<andythenorth>hard to make generations different there
14:08<andythenorth>and stick to golden rule that livestock car is black horizontal gaps
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14:09*andythenorth will have to piss around with rearranging 15 pixels in doors
14:09<andythenorth>I have to do an extra generation for 2020 also :P
14:09<V453000>what are the two wagons which are the same length and look the same?
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14:10<andythenorth>different generations :(
14:10<andythenorth>trains 64 and 66
14:10<andythenorth>and 65 and 67
14:10<andythenorth>same sprites currently, different generations
14:11<andythenorth>I really want to keep look of original TTD livestock van
14:11<andythenorth>but this limits variety horribly
14:11<Wolf01>Change roofs color
14:12<andythenorth>considered it
14:12<Wolf01>Brown for the older ones and dark grey for the new ones
14:12<andythenorth>but really nice to keep all same
14:12<andythenorth>I tried light grey yesterday
14:12<andythenorth>and CC
14:12<andythenorth>but dark grey is best look
14:12<Wolf01>It looks boring, all the same
14:13<andythenorth>I could do ‘luxury’ for newer generations, and add windows for people who look after cows
14:13<andythenorth>but eh, seems stupid
14:13<andythenorth>if I just do the black gaps at top of car, it looks like prison wagon
14:13<andythenorth>cow prison :P
14:13<supermop_>apt
14:14<andythenorth>I can move doors around, make doors bigger etc
14:14<andythenorth>maybe
14:15<V453000>andythenorth: original TTD van was quite a bit different :) your vans are great though
14:15<V453000>well quite a bit
14:15<andythenorth>original was taller
14:15<V453000>not that much
14:16<V453000>I guess for me it was mainly the X in the middle which defined the livestock car
14:16<V453000>the texture was secondary
14:17<andythenorth>first gen has x
14:17<V453000>yeah but kind of small and inverted compared to the originals right
14:17<andythenorth>could go bigger on it
14:18<andythenorth>pretty distinctive
14:18<supermop_>original had no wheels
14:18<andythenorth>is true
14:18<Wolf01>Somebody knows where to make the google search filters static? I mean, "All | Images | Videos", they scramble at every search I do, usually I get shopping or news in place of images
14:18<andythenorth>nope
14:18<andythenorth>they rearrange seemingly random
14:18<Wolf01>It's really irritating
14:19<andythenorth>yes
14:19<andythenorth>I looked for a way to give google feedback about it
14:19<andythenorth>but no
14:19<andythenorth>probably the only feedback they care about is whether you click ads
14:19<andythenorth>so click ads when you like the layout, and not when you don’t
14:20<Wolf01>http://precisionscalemodels.com.au/wp-content/gallery/victorian-railways-ll-sheep-and-mm-cattle-wagon/victorian-railways-ll-sheep-and-mm-cattle-wagon-2.jpg <- could be of your interest?
14:20<Wolf01>http://precisionscalemodels.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Victorian-Railways-LL-Sheep-and-MM-Cattle-Wagon.jpg
14:21<andythenorth>sheeps
14:21<andythenorth>is possible to do variety in small pixels http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8651/horse_open_cars.png
14:21<andythenorth>but eh
14:22<Wolf01>"we don't have sheeps" ... "who cares?"
14:24<V453000>the wagons are amzing andythenorth, but the engines are starting to be really far behind them in terms of quality :)
14:24<__ln__>and the plural of sheep is ...
14:24<V453000>awesome work
14:25<Wolf01><__ln__> and the plural of sheep is ... <- sheep
14:25<__ln__>correctomundo
14:26<andythenorth>V453000: engines aren’t matttering so much eh
14:27<supermop_>oh god these faceless armless minifigs from the 70s are creepy
14:27<V453000>XD well well
14:29<andythenorth>eh generations only need to alternate eh
14:30<andythenorth>V453000: more X http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8662/horses_on_horses_2.png
14:30<V453000>omg he's getting ideas again
14:30<andythenorth>can alternate X, no X
14:31<andythenorth>anyone with ‘never expire’ on can suck it :)
14:31<V453000>I would move X 1 pixel up and make it rather fatter instead of super brighter
14:31<andythenorth>yeah, X sucks a bit
14:31<andythenorth>could just have one door and do super fat X
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14:43<andythenorth>V453000: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8663/horses_horses_3.png
14:45<@Alberth>you can make one without a clear door
14:45<@Alberth>or door without holes
14:46<V453000>nice
14:47<andythenorth>V453000: sucks a bit, but might keep the idea
14:48<@Alberth>or door not in the middle
14:58<andythenorth>it’s quite a big X :)
14:59<andythenorth>door at one end?
14:59<andythenorth>asymmetry :P
14:59<Wolf01>http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAwMFgxMDAw/z/XiMAAOSwhh5TozqF/$_35.JPG
14:59<Wolf01>^ win
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15:00<Wolf01>http://www.bergshobbies.com.au/resources/images/products/qr%20k%20ka%20cattle%20wagon%20kit%20(on42%20gauge).jpg and something like this? More uniform plates instead of a grid?
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15:01<andythenorth>lego one is winning
15:02<andythenorth>slavish dedictation to original is limiting options :D
15:02<andythenorth>https://wiki.openttd.org/Livestock_Van
15:02*andythenorth might have to adjust goals
15:03<supermop_>try a / or V instead of X
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15:13<V453000>:D slave
15:16<andythenorth>V won’t work
15:17<V453000>obviously
15:17<V453000>V never works
15:20<V453000>I'm experimenting with using a HDRI environment for orthographic rendering
15:20<V453000>seems to help quite a bit with reflective materials
15:24<V453000>I think I realized a stupid but probably working idea for toylandz
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15:25<andythenorth>such landz
15:35<V453000>so
15:35<V453000>I posted text in some forums
15:35<V453000>I said it would be idea if toyland was hostily environment with crystals ... dude wrote me PM that it's basically starcraft
15:35<V453000>asshole is right
15:35<V453000>so
15:35<V453000>instead of hostile environment it's ultra unhostile
15:36<V453000>-> there will be money growing from the ground
15:36<Wolf01>Then is C&C
15:37<V453000>LMFAO
15:37<V453000>:D
15:37<V453000>no escape
15:38<Wolf01>They can rain from the sky... no wait, it's Dragonshard
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15:43<Wolf01>opengfx+ road vehicles has trams too?
15:48<supermop_>yep
15:48<supermop_>only 3
15:48<supermop_>my set arose as an attempt to improve them
15:51<andythenorth>is it bedtime?
15:51<supermop_>c&c economy?
15:54<V453000>just $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
15:55<supermop_>must build silos to hold the $
15:57<V453000>:D trees have 2 millions of polygons :D
15:57<V453000>:D
15:58<andythenorth>errr
15:58<andythenorth>log cars (only wood), or stake cars (many refits)?
15:58<andythenorth>Hog has log truck, wood only
15:59<andythenorth>Sam will have log tug, wood only
15:59<andythenorth>original TTD has wood truck, wood only
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16:09<Wolf01>Mmmh, the automated timetables in JGRpp is really good
16:11<andythenorth>rly?
16:12<Wolf01>Yes, autoseparation works and vehicles are on time
16:12<andythenorth>for ships?
16:12<Wolf01>Not tried
16:12<Wolf01>I'm just browsing the features of JGRpp
16:12<andythenorth>does it automatically set everything up for you?
16:12<Wolf01>Yes
16:13*andythenorth hasn’t tried that feature
16:13<andythenorth>I tried a few others
16:13<V453000>interesting
16:13<Wolf01>I just purchased vehicles, added a route, started all and let them separate automatically
16:13<andythenorth>if timetables was just ‘distribute vehicles’ I might be convinced
16:14<V453000>would sound reasonable even to me
16:14<Wolf01>Now one or two are just 1 minute late... eh, daylength enabled too because yes
16:14<V453000>assuming the current method of defining exact stopping times would still work
16:15<Wolf01>Yes, you can toggle the "automate" button
16:16<V453000>automation is always on in my world
16:16<Wolf01>I would play only with automate active and glued in place
16:16<andythenorth>that is quite compelling if it works
16:16<Wolf01>Mmmh slaves aren't making enough money
16:17<andythenorth>setting up timetables sounds like worst gameplay idea ever
16:17<andythenorth>automatically preventing vehicles from bunching is fine
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16:18<Wolf01>Also the polyline for tracks
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16:19<V453000>:D
16:19<V453000>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8664/trees-toyland-01.png
16:19<V453000>will need some more love but well :D
16:19<V453000>concept iz
16:19<andythenorth>polyline irritated me a lot
16:19<andythenorth>V453000: so very Micro Machines
16:20<Wolf01>Polyline coule be handled a bit differently
16:20<V453000>you mean 2.5 stars out of 5, mostly negative reviews at 26% positive?
16:20<V453000>THANKS I GUESS
16:20<V453000>:D :D
16:21<andythenorth>whatever concept you have now, we find a game to match
16:21<V453000>http://store.steampowered.com/app/535850/Micro_Machines_World_Series/
16:21<andythenorth>winning
16:21<V453000>yeah I'll just go with this
16:21<V453000>money everywhere
16:21<V453000>tycoon $$$$$
16:21<andythenorth>are they chocolate coins?
16:21<V453000>no it's just wrong shaders
16:21<andythenorth>should be chocolate
16:21<V453000>eh
16:21<andythenorth>but wrapped in that gold foil stuff
16:22<V453000>can be left to player's imagination what's inside :P
16:22<V453000>yes I understand
16:22<andythenorth>https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/dd/f7/83/ddf7835ac47e67621eb59cc654c0e7fa.jpg&imgrefurl=https://www.pinterest.com/pin/467952217502335365/&h=1000&w=1000&tbnid=0aVgEYTpy27_MM:&tbnh=186&tbnw=186&usg=__e8Y1K6qYHm67JBAWtEbl_JFELy4=&vet=10ahUKEwjpnJyG4tLWAhXmCsAKHZn-B8UQ_B0ImwMwCg..i&docid=YCN0_WeFBHR2LM&itg=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjpnJyG4tLWAhXmCsAKHZn-B8UQ_B0ImwMwCg&ei=
16:22<andythenorth>Z_SWanyA-aVgAaZ_Z-oDA
16:22<V453000>arr
16:22<andythenorth>no you can do seasons and stuff
16:22<V453000>we have that here as well
16:22<andythenorth>gold falls off
16:22<V453000>:D I am not sure
16:22<andythenorth>I keep talking you get sure
16:22<V453000>currently the pile just grows,I guess it could decrease instead
16:22<andythenorth>probably sure not
16:22<V453000>:D
16:23<V453000>well, enough for today
16:23<V453000>gnight
16:23<andythenorth>nom nom
16:26<Wolf01>Now I want chocolate
16:28<Wolf01>Is just me or windmills (replacing transmitters in opengfx+ landscape) wobble a lot?
16:28<Wolf01>Zoom >= 4x
16:29*andythenorth bed
16:29<andythenorth>bye :)
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16:30<Wolf01>Other 2 things I love: zoning to show catchement areas and signs when you click on vehicles to show the orders in map
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18:12<znf>Hi.
18:13<znf>How do I make a town build higher density buildings? I keep extending it with road, hell, I even made an island, and yet all it builds are puny, tiny houses
18:14<znf>I'm kind of stuck at around 27k population :-/
18:14<znf>and I do meet the requirements to grow (it grows every 5 days)
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18:19<ST2>znf: that happens in an online server or it's on a SP game? (if the 3nd, using any GS and with what settings?)
18:19<ST2>2nd*
18:19<znf>It's a save from an online game, but I've started a local server to continue
18:20<ST2>the online game used any kind of gamescript?
18:20<znf>I'm kind of not used to the lingo, so not sure what you're saying about a script
18:20<znf>can I check it in any way?
18:21<ST2>well, I know some of the servers, where the save came from?
18:22<znf>openttd.btpro.nl
18:22<znf>they run a 8000-pop server
18:22<ST2>ah, server 12
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18:24<ST2>it runs a home made CB script (kinda simple) - it's so messed up into other GS's (merged) that's almost impossible to split and made it available on bananas
18:24<ST2>once I tried and only got fails :(
18:24<znf>also, is there a way to remove a restriction (no airplanes)?
18:24<ST2>it happens that loading a game of there without the exact GS will go to regular town mechanics
18:25<ST2>maybe on scenario editor - but never tried it
18:25<znf>it takes /so/ long to grow
18:26<ST2>probably because of road layout too: check different layouts here https://www.citymania.org/tools/townsim
18:26<ST2>(thanks CityMania)
18:26<znf>I have that, yes, 4x4
18:26<znf>erm, 2x2
18:27<znf>https://i.imgur.com/4Dhh00X.png
18:27<ST2>try the spiral ones
18:27<ST2>and remember that towns grow like a spiral starting from town center
18:27<ST2>those lakes kinda limits it
18:28<znf>well, crap
18:28<znf>ok, goodbye lake
18:28<_dp_>big buldings grow closer to town center
18:28<ST2>there's the CB master ^^
18:29<_dp_>it's not much related to road layout or anything except for extra garbage taking valuable center spots
18:29<znf>wish I knew how to demolish that industry :-/
18:29<ST2>CTRL+ALT+C (if single player) xD
18:30<_dp_>there is no way to destroy industries in mp unless you're on citymania servers
18:30<ST2>or make it on scenario editor
18:30<_dp_>and for sp, yes, magic bulldozer ftw)
18:31<znf>damn it
18:33<_dp_>in general in city-builder try to choose towns that have nothing close to their center and carefully plan your roads and tracks so it takes as little center space as possible
18:34<_dp_>also stations can be moved out as town grows, even on btpro that's allowed I believe
18:35<ST2>since it grows, move stations, yes
18:36<ST2>requires a bit micromanagement, but worth the effort :)
18:37<ST2>daaaamnnn... when I can't decide what series to watch, always end up watching Futurama xD
18:38<znf>ok, got it, so there's no way to force building higher density in remote areas
18:38<znf>just gotta let it grow :-/
18:42<_dp_>yep
18:42<_dp_>read this if you want to learn a bit more about town zones http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/User:Mfb/Towns
18:45<znf>do the Factories require all 3 types of cargo to create goods?
18:45<znf>livestock/grain/steel?
18:45<znf>or they can just do it with 2?
18:45<_dp_>hm, though that article seems to be quite bad at explaining town zones but at least it tries...
18:45<_dp_>any will do
18:45<znf>cool, for a second it showed 0 creates production
18:46<znf>yes, I've read that
18:46<znf>oh wait, not that
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18:52<znf>what's "terraforming limit reached"? :-|
18:53<_dp_>as it says, too much terraforming :p
18:53<znf>what does the limit refer to?
18:53<_dp_>it will restore after a while
18:53<znf>ah
18:53<znf>so timed base
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19:07<znf>also, how the hell do I actually renew vehicles in a depot?
19:07<znf>I click the renew button but nothing happens
19:08<ST2>maybe because server settings is without breakdowns - I guess only works correctly if you use to replace by another vehicle
19:08<znf>I mean the "autoreplace"
19:09<znf>Ah.
19:09<ST2>but I'm kinda rusty on there ^^
19:09<znf>Is there a simpler way to renew a vehicle without buying a new one, clicking on orders, cloing the orders from the previous one etc. ?
19:09<ST2>vehicles will never need a mechanic - unless you want to replace for a new model :)
19:10<znf>Foster MK II should be available in 2008, and I'm 2009
19:10<ST2>https://wiki.openttd.org/Replace_vehicles
19:10<znf>but I don't see it yet
19:10<ST2>the way it works it's similar to RV's
19:10<Eddi|zuHause>znf: you set up autoreplace rules from the vehicle lists
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>znf: only then the replace button actually does anything
19:11<znf>ah, nice
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20:33<Wolf01>'night
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