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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-10-06

---Logopened Fri Oct 06 00:00:27 2017
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08:46<yorick>https://www.reactos.org/project-news/reactos-repository-migrated-github
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09:08<@peter1138>ok
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10:14<crem1>http://store.steampowered.com/app/598960/Mashinky/
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10:22<supermop>yo
10:24<@peter1138>Never seen that link before!
10:24<crem1>Will be in early access for two years?... Huh, I'd hope it won't be the same story as with prison architect.
10:34<crem1>Hopefully it will only get better like factorio.
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11:02<Wolf01>Moin
11:13<supermop>hi Wolf01
11:16<Wolf01>Mmmh, I need to reverse the logic of my app
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11:17<Wolf01>o/
11:17<@Alberth>o/
11:18<Wolf01>I wanted to show in the home the N most recent feeds for each site, where N is a value the user can chose, but to do so I need to load every subscription, order by date, take N
11:19<@Alberth>likely, or you keep track of the last N entries
11:19<Wolf01>I have the cache to load the same stuff from file, but not the new stuff :P
11:19<@Alberth>but you don't need to load the file anyway to display the newest?
11:19<Wolf01>And that means the kickstart of the app is really slow
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11:20<@Alberth>not really 'kick' :p
11:21<@Alberth>some form of incremental loading/display might be useful?
11:21<Wolf01>After it loads from the web the new stuff then it's really fast, because now there is the cache, and it updates every 30 minutes (I need to make it a setting)
11:23<Wolf01>Yes, I was thinking to not focus on strict order by date, since it loads the feeds for every subscription as a task, I can append the items while it loads, too bad I can't start directly with the cache because I don't know how many feeds I might get
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11:24<@Alberth>could work, as long as you keep the displayed items ordered on date, I think
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11:28<Wolf01>Yes, but only for each subscription, or I'll need to reorder the same collection at every addition, and it's not a simple collection.orderby() thing because it returns a copy of the collection, I could try with insertat(), but it might be a computational waste, since I will need to find the exact point (binary tree?)
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11:33<@Alberth>bisection method, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_search_algorithm
11:33<Wolf01>Yes that
11:33<@Alberth>searching is as fast as binary tree
11:34<@Alberth>slightly faster if you count cpu cache locality (if that applies in your case)
11:37<@Alberth>heap is perhaps better https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_heap as it is quite good at insertion
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11:44<@Alberth>hmm, no in-order traversal for free
11:46<@Alberth>perhaps the relation was the other way around, ie a sorted array is a heap, but not every heap is a sorted array
11:48<Wolf01>I use this one, because of the UI: https://msdn.microsoft.com/it-it/library/ms668604%28v=vs.110%29.aspx?f=255&MSPPError=-2147217396
11:50<@Alberth>ha, I can read some class and function names, and that's it :)
11:50<@Alberth>but yeah, seems like the right solution
11:50<@Alberth>not like you have a zillion entries anyway
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11:51<@Alberth>so anything will basically work :)
11:51<Wolf01>No, maybe 20-30, so I don't think it blocks the execution for too much
11:52<Wolf01>And if I do it async it doesn't even block it
11:54<Wolf01>Now I have one of the most common problems of the developers: think about the right name of the variables and what to write on the label text...
11:54<@Alberth>:O
11:55<@Alberth>would be really nice if I has that sort of problems as the most difficult ones :)
11:56<@Alberth>or even common ones :)
11:56<Wolf01>I have to make the control group for the timer value... "Set the auto refresh of feeds delay to"/n [combobox] "minutes" could be easy to understand?
11:57<Wolf01>Or minutes into the combobox item, it seem microsoft does this
11:57<@Alberth>s/delay// ?
11:58<@Alberth>minutes already implies waiting :)
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11:58<@Alberth>s/auto// ?
11:58<@Alberth>Update feeds every XX minutes
11:59<Wolf01>Also
12:02<Wolf01>Meh, I have to make the combobox a Frankenstein's monster to allow to translate the " minutes" string for items
12:08<@Alberth>:(
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12:11<Wolf01>https://daxsnippets.wordpress.com/2015/06/12/win10-localised-text/
12:12<Wolf01>(I don't know why he uses TextBlock instead of ComboBoxItem)
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12:15<@Alberth>it was simpler?
12:15<@Alberth>examples are hardly ever complete
12:16<@Alberth>reference manuals are more appropriate for that kind of questions
12:16<Wolf01>Nah, you can fit even checkboxes in comboboxes
12:16<@Alberth>combo checking :)
12:16<Wolf01>Usually people do a lot of strange things because want to add icons and stuff
12:19<@Alberth>yeah, although it doesn't sound like a good idea, imho
12:20<@Alberth>but many people are scared shit of plain text
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12:22<Wolf01>Quak
12:22<@Alberth>hola
12:23<frosch123>moo
12:26<frosch123>looks like V has no issues with earbuds
12:26<@Alberth>http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/wide_enough.png wide enough for a double track over the water, right :)
12:27<Wolf01>Right
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12:28<Wolf01>http://www.wpf-tutorial.com/list-controls/combobox-control/ <- look at the part with "custom content"
12:31<@Alberth>that example makes sense
12:32<supermop>frosch123: ha
12:32<@Alberth>hmm, somewhat lacking money
12:33<Wolf01>Building foundations on water is expensive
12:35<@Alberth>yep
12:40<@Alberth>and they built the power plant in the middle of farm fields as well
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: maybe it was the place with the fewest NIMBYs
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12:46<Wolf01>I tried 3 times to create an array of integers to pass as a function argument and all 3 times gave error... it was right the first time... :|
12:49<@Alberth>fold a class around it?
12:49<Wolf01>Just new int[] { 1, 2, ...}
12:50<Wolf01>But it was underlined in red, maybe I'm too fast for the intellisense
12:50<@Alberth>:)
12:50<@Alberth>type slower :p
12:50<@Alberth>Eddi: it was narrow enough for that :)
12:52<@Alberth>Oh right, java-ish
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12:53<@Alberth>can you have unreachable code in C# ?
12:53<Wolf01>Yes just put something after a return
12:55<@Alberth>nice, it's a fatal error in Java
12:55<frosch123>does it have "goto"?
12:55<@Alberth>which is just plain stupid
12:55<Wolf01>I need a way to sync the resources between languages without the translator tool (which now requires a free azure services subscriptions, which requires a credit card) :(
12:56<@Alberth>hmm, max speed of coal train 47km/h :p
12:56<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: so if i add a return for debugging purposes, i have to comment out all the code?
12:56<@Alberth>nah, "if (true) return;" works
12:56<@Alberth>ie "if" is an exception
12:57<Wolf01>In java yes, here the intellisense just tells you are stupid
12:57<@Alberth>reasoning is that you may have debug code if (DEBUG) { ... }
12:57<@Alberth>with DEBUG defined at the top of the file
12:58<@Alberth>so in all, it's a silly useless attempt to control program code
12:58<Wolf01>With the constant it just greyes out the part of the code which won't be executed
12:58<+glx>it's stupid to have unreachable code, but it's more stupid to consider it a fatal error
12:59<Eddi|zuHause>warning is a sane level
12:59<+glx>a warning or a notice during the compilation is enough yes
13:00<@Alberth>it gives an extra challenge if you generate Java code :p
13:01<@Alberth>so indeed, I generate "if (true) return" statements, and "while(...) { if (false) break; ... }"
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: but the solution there is the same as above debug thing
13:01<@Alberth>it is
13:01<@Alberth>modulo the 64K limit crap
13:02<Eddi|zuHause>what 64k limit?
13:02<@Alberth>everything 64K limits
13:02<@Alberth>64K byte code in a method
13:02<@Alberth>64K methods
13:02<+glx>JVM limitation I guess
13:02<@Alberth>yes
13:02<Eddi|zuHause>what happened to 32bit?
13:02<@Alberth>invented in the 90s and still applied
13:03<Eddi|zuHause>the time when .com files were max 64k
13:03<@Alberth>compiler isn't even smart enough to handle it
13:04<@Alberth>probably they are afraid some system from the 90s is still running java
13:04<frosch123>haha, if you didn't mention code generation earlier, i would have wondered how you got to those limits :)
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>... until some dos versions where even command.com wasn't actually a .com file anymore, but an .exe file which just was renamed .com
13:05<@Alberth>sure manual code is quite alright, even unreachable code never happens there, other than by accident
13:05<@Alberth>but it's clearly designed for that one usecase
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: like that one nml or grfcodec bug at 64k sprites that i found?
13:05<+glx>JVM runs on a lot of silly systems
13:06<@Alberth>I have no problem with that, but my code isn't intended for such systems, as it doesn't have the processing power anyway
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>glx: quite worrying if you think about how many java programs your average car runs nowadays...
13:07<+glx>yup
13:08<+glx>and IoT things
13:09<Wolf01>I would be more worried to have a PHP powered car
13:13<+glx>now you have to plug the car to enable the AUX port on the radio
13:13<+glx>that's crazy
13:16<Wolf01>Pizza time
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13:25<andythenorth>o/
13:26<frosch123>hoi
13:26<@Alberth>o/
13:34<V453000>iz huminz, iz friday
13:34<V453000>iz photoshop, iz solution
13:38<andythenorth>photostrop
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14:05<andythenorth>iz friday
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15:11<loeky>!date
15:11<Wolf01>06/10/2017
15:12<supermop>ha
15:12<loeky>(-: thanks but needed openttdcoop
15:12<V453000>yo
15:12<loeky>hello
15:13<Wolf01>Mmmh, andythenothere... :(
15:14<V453000>:D :D gray landscape makes ISR stations basically invisible
15:14<V453000>:D:D:D
15:14<Wolf01>:D
15:14<V453000>it's almost exactly the same
15:14<Wolf01>Nice
15:15<V453000>"it's a feature"
15:15<V453000>too much work to change
15:16<Wolf01>I've got a bonus fidget spinner from samsung today, because I attended at an explanation of the new galaxy note 8 features
15:18<V453000>wtf
15:19<Wolf01>I was like "what this thing could be? It's heavy, a samsung magnet?"... opened the box: fidget spinner
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15:19<Wolf01>o/
15:20<andythenorth>hi
15:20<Wolf01>Figured out what to do with the intermodal containers?
15:20<andythenorth>nope
15:20<andythenorth>legacy from Squid is that intermodal is express-only
15:20<andythenorth>like mail cars
15:22<Wolf01>Change squid too?
15:24<andythenorth>squid is dead anyway
15:24<andythenorth>and Hog doesn’t have intermodal yet
15:24<andythenorth>good time to reset
15:24<andythenorth>Wolf01: these what you saw? https://www.flickr.com/photos/8293801@N07/15538895460/in/photolist-UMEknS-SzsRy2-VPSLkD-pXAbof-rG8H5y-rpFhVh-qKsbAv-pXhoSt-pF7UfG-pF2zM8-pXAcqq-H5buwm-Rp9EoS-H5buw1-H5buww-Uivvse-H5bux3-EvE6iq-QiAVwA-QQ57AM
15:25<Wolf01>Nope, they were 3 hoppers in the same flat wagon
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15:27<Wolf01>https://www.vtg.com/fileadmin/_processed_/2/a/csm_I44.060D_354ee1a842.jpg more like this
15:27<Wolf01>But they were open on top
15:29<andythenorth>containers for all things http://www.innofreight.com/en/logistic-solutions/logisticsolutions.php
15:30<V453000>XD
15:30<V453000>iz cheat
15:30<Wolf01>Yes, something like a short version of the rocktainer
15:31<andythenorth>V453000: is NUTS 2 surely :P
15:31<andythenorth>all realism, all the time
15:31<Wolf01>Or the woodtainer, I don't really remember if they had slanted edges
15:33<andythenorth>so all cargos?
15:33<andythenorth>all except bulk?
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15:37<Wolf01>In shipping, break bulk cargo or general cargo are goods that must be loaded individually, and not in intermodal containers nor in bulk as with oil or grain. <- I think it speaks for itself
15:43<Wolf01>For example you could keep steel and log wagons, but introduce also intermodal ones for steel products, and sawdust for logs (still listed as logs if you don't have a second product from the sawmill), just to make some variation on trains
15:46<V453000>andythenorth: how do I open a photo on a macbook and be able to use some kind of arrows for next/previous?
15:46<V453000>it keeps opening it in some previewer and it seems to be just that one
15:46<V453000>or iz some application which works easy and with this?
15:47<andythenorth>no
15:47<andythenorth>is all shit
15:47<Wolf01>:D
15:47<andythenorth>try hitting space
15:47<andythenorth>in Finder
15:47<andythenorth>gets you Quick Look, which would be awesome, but is always wrong size
15:53<andythenorth>logtainer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC6yCJiUSvQ
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15:56<loeky>it was apple cake
15:56<andythenorth>http://seabox.com/products/detail/SB47174-40ft-type-17
15:57<V453000>andythenorth: space seems to do the job
15:57<V453000>thanks
15:57<andythenorth>np
15:57<loeky>oops wrong chat )-:
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16:05<andythenorth>what about refrigerated containers? :P
16:06<Wolf01>And a container for containers?
16:07<frosch123>you should have fish livestock containers
16:07<frosch123>possibly with glass walls
16:07<andythenorth>containers could be a whole grf :P
16:07<frosch123>hmm, i wonder whether i ever transported fish with nuts
16:13<andythenorth>bed
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16:29<supermop>industry: container terminal
16:29<supermop>cargo+empty container = full container
16:51<Wolf01>Make a grf for containers and call it Docker
16:52<Wolf01>So we can say we support Docker in OTTD running in a Docker container
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17:56<supermop>later
17:56<supermop>beer time
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---Logclosed Sat Oct 07 00:00:28 2017