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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-10-07

---Logopened Sat Oct 07 00:00:28 2017
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03:09<andythenorth>o/
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04:28<andythenorth>iz
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04:46<TrueBrain>zi
04:52<andythenorth>such brains
04:52<andythenorth>true
04:54<V453000>yo
04:54<V453000>success in photoshop was, but after effects still managed to fuck it up along the way before the sprites are shat :D
04:54<V453000>migrating even more into photoshop now
04:55<V453000>redoing all them things
04:55<V453000>progress must not be stopped
04:55<andythenorth>automate V453000
04:58<V453000>not an option at this point
04:58<V453000>this is just all about making it final with the control of photoshop over every pixel easily
04:58<V453000>complex masking is a pain in the ass with vector masks
04:58<V453000>I learned my lesson not to attempt to use them ever again for complicated shit
04:58<V453000>and tunnels are really complicated shit
05:02<V453000>it's going to be great, now I am on the right path finally
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05:04<V453000>thing is, it's still 2D sprites. Last step should always be photoshop
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05:20<Wolf01>o/
05:26<Wolf01>I should buy a new router, 9 classes of QoS rules aren't enough :(
05:26<Wolf01>I think I'll buy a firewall
05:29<__ln__>can you even buy a router that isn't also a firewall?
05:29<Wolf01>The firewall part on routers is usually limited
05:30<Wolf01>Even the NAT on my router allows just 10 services
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05:36<@peter1138>Depends if it's a shit router or not.
05:37<@peter1138>Also why do you need so much QoS.
05:38<Wolf01>Limit bandwidth used by every device to allow at least a 15% to be used by others
05:40<@peter1138>So you have 6.666 devices?
05:40<Wolf01>No, 2 classes for every device, Up/Down have a different class and they are shared
05:42<Wolf01>I have 5 devices: 10 classes, max 9
05:46<Wolf01>I grouped the wifi devices using the mask to save 3 classes to be used for specific services device-independent like VOIP (2 classes), I now have 1 class left
05:49<__ln__>does your shitty router support flashing OpenWRT on it?
05:50<Wolf01>No, also I don't think there's openwrt with adsl module
05:50<__ln__>hmm, keep adsl and router as separate devices and you'll have more choice
05:51<Wolf01>Eh that's why I want to buy a firewall
05:52<__ln__>i have https://www.ubnt.com/edgemax/edgerouter-lite/ and it's pretty nice
05:53<Wolf01>I considered ubiquity
05:57<__ln__>in many ways it's a professional product, but in the price range that a consumer would pay
06:01<Wolf01>I have a linksys WRT54G, but it's just for the living room, the entire network relies on the adsl modem router
06:03<Wolf01>Clearly the WRT54G has dd-wrt installed because I needed it to split the wifi, I considered to install openwrt but the configuration of the split was a bit tricky, and I don't want to touch something which works fine
06:04<Wolf01>But if I'll move all the network stuff to the living room I could use that as main gateway
06:04<__ln__>is it a WRT54GL?
06:04<__ln__>well, probably if you installed dd-wrt on it.
06:07<Wolf01>The only problem I have is that if I disable the dhcp server on the adsl router the WRT54G doesn't supply the dhcp to the lan, only to wifi
06:08<__ln__>unfortunately any modern version of OpenWRT doesn't fit into WRT54GL's rom.
06:09<Wolf01>Yes, I read the warnings, and it already has 84% of memory full with dd-wrt
06:09<Wolf01>16MB aren't really much :P
06:11<Wolf01>Also I remember I had to stick to an exact version of dd-wrt because others have huge problems with the WRT54G/GL/GS devices
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06:27<@peter1138>Gonna get myself a couple of wAP ACs I think.
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06:29<Wolf01>Quak
06:30<frosch123>moi
06:42<Wolf01>https://imgur.com/a/4hRQI I think it rendered fine
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07:09<Wolf01>BBL
07:23<andythenorth>such Horse
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12:32<andythenorth>o/
12:32<supermop_home>yo
12:32<supermop_home>roll up doors for cargo trams, or sliding box car doors?
12:33<andythenorth>varies by generation
12:33<supermop_home>70s
12:33<andythenorth>sliding
12:33<supermop_home>80s?
12:33<andythenorth>roller
12:33<supermop_home>60s?
12:33<andythenorth>sliding, chunky
12:33<supermop_home>canvas sides?
12:34<andythenorth>maybe
12:38<supermop_home>http://www.railpage.org.au/tram/images/work11w.jpg
12:38<supermop_home>ding ding
12:38<supermop_home>panto+pole
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13:05<andythenorth>anyone help me improve Iron Horse makefile?
13:05<andythenorth>currently I have to use ‘make clean && make install’ every time
13:05<andythenorth>this negates any caching benefit
13:05<andythenorth>but otherwise it doesn’t see changes
13:05<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/entry/Makefile
13:07<andythenorth>- lang changes aren’t detected
13:08<andythenorth>- graphics changes aren’t detected
13:09<andythenorth>- changes to .py source files that affect nml output are detected
13:09<frosch123>fixing makefiles always means rewriting them :p
13:10<frosch123>it easier to rewrite them with your own tricks and looking up whether the rules of someone else work
13:10<frosch123>in this case: directories as targets make no sense in my book, but maybe there is some hidden make feature
13:10<andythenorth>these are rewritten ;)
13:10<andythenorth>I rewrote them :P
13:11<frosch123>s/and/than/
13:11<andythenorth>- changes to .py source that affects graphics aren’t detected
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13:13<andythenorth>last time I tried to fix this I made some kind of recursion :P
13:14<+glx>make works on file targets, not dirs I think
13:16<+glx>anyway you don't seem to add deps for lang dir, so make will never be triggered without cleaning
13:17<+glx>same for graphics
13:19<andythenorth>ok
13:19<andythenorth>so how do I do that? ;)
13:19*andythenorth has read the make docs twice, but never makes any sense
13:20<andythenorth>why does changing png need the nml rebuilt?
13:20*andythenorth is confused
13:22<andythenorth>unrelated to that, doesn’t L81 cause the graphics to be built when the grf is built?
13:22<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/entry/Makefile#L81
13:22<+glx>because iron-horse.nml depends on .py .pynml .pt .png .lng
13:22<andythenorth>that should build graphics, lang, docs, nml
13:22<andythenorth>it only builds nml unless I use clean
13:23<+glx>as $SOURCE tells it
13:23<andythenorth>so I should remove .png from L18
13:24<andythenorth>one fix down
13:24<+glx>you should split the source list and group by target
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13:24<andythenorth>right
13:24<WegeClausen>hi where is the setting to see the boarders of a city
13:24<andythenorth>NML_SOURCES, GRAPHICS_SOURCES etc
13:24<+glx>line 78 tells nml file depends on all source
13:25<+glx>but line 69 and 72 depends on nothing
13:25<andythenorth>but doesn’t L81 tell to always build graphics, docs etc?
13:25<+glx>only if they don't exist
13:25<andythenorth>righty
13:26<+glx>as they have no deps
13:26<andythenorth>right
13:26<andythenorth>one day understanding will arrive
13:26<andythenorth>make is some kind of symbol chaining :P
13:27<+glx>writing deps is a pain :)
13:28<andythenorth>probably SOURCES doesn’t need to be a var
13:29<+glx>it can
13:30<WegeClausen>someone can help me or is this not posible
13:30<+glx>using a var is a good idea if you write some kind of generic makefile
13:30<+glx>but you should split it for each sub part
13:30<andythenorth>each var only needs consumed once, so eh
13:30*andythenorth testing
13:31<+glx>like one group of source files for graphics, one for langs, one for nml
13:32<andythenorth>thanks glx
13:32<andythenorth>graphics changes now detected
13:32<+glx>but I'm not sur how make handles a target dir
13:34<+glx>WegeClausen: I don't think this settings exist but I may be wrong
13:34<andythenorth>use JGR Patchpack
13:34<andythenorth>from forums
13:34<andythenorth>has town boundaries
13:35<+glx>so yeah not in base game :)
13:36<_dp_>CityMania client also has all kinds of town boundaries if you want it for mp
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13:41<andythenorth>that cuts a normal compile time by 50% :P
13:41<andythenorth>30s is a lot better than > 1 min
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13:58<V453000>andythenorth: the FIRS coal mine is just excellently well drawn
13:58<V453000>I kind of still like some of the details about the original one more, but overall, fucking amazing
14:06<andythenorth>it’s mostly just the original, except not a direct copy :P
14:06<V453000>yes
14:06<andythenorth>but thanks :)
14:06<V453000>overall the level of quality of especially the newer industries is just outstanding
14:06<V453000>it's really making progress over the years
14:07<andythenorth>I prefer http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#diamond_mine
14:07<andythenorth>full on mental roof colour, like original TTD
14:08<V453000>haha
14:08<V453000>yeah that one is nice
14:08<andythenorth>now just needs converting to 32bpp EZ
14:09<andythenorth>‘to attract more players
14:09<andythenorth>and look modern'
14:09<V453000>there is a whole bunch of really awesome things
14:09<V453000>yeah just draw 16 times more pixels
14:09<V453000>what could possibly go wrong
14:09<V453000>no 32bpp
14:09<andythenorth>‘looks more modern'
14:09<andythenorth>for 2002
14:09<V453000>haha
14:13<andythenorth>do I make Horse nml super-complicated in hope of faster compiles?
14:13<andythenorth>every vehicle has a lot of switches
14:14<andythenorth>they could all be one set of shared switches, using registers to pass vehicle ID around
14:14<andythenorth>probably wtf
14:15<V453000>:D
14:15*andythenorth thinks not
14:15<andythenorth>faster to compile, slower to code :P
14:15<V453000>overcomplicate it ftw
14:15<andythenorth>maybe
14:17<andythenorth>every wagon has up to 58 switches just to handle showing cargo
14:17<andythenorth>pretty certain they could just be 58 switches once
14:19<andythenorth>not 58 switches * 115 wagons
14:19<andythenorth>@calc 115 * 58
14:19<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 6670
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14:30<andythenorth>so intermodal eh?
14:30<andythenorth>which cargos?
14:31<andythenorth>same as box cargos (everything but bulk)?
14:31<andythenorth>or everything?
14:32<andythenorth>and how should the containers recolour? White + CC? To specific cargo colours (like Hog tarpaulins)? Just to CC? To random range of colours?
14:33<andythenorth>and does intermodal go at pax speed, or freight speed?
14:33<andythenorth>so many questions :P
14:33<V453000>the fuck does intermodal mean
14:33<andythenorth>containers
14:33<V453000>k
14:33<andythenorth>basically if it’s all cargos, and high speed
14:34<andythenorth>then it’s boss
14:34<V453000>containers are wagons with container sprites, nuff specifics :P
14:34<andythenorth>and no other wagons are needed
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17:21-!-HerzogDeXtEr is "purple" on #openttd
17:30<__ln__>for anyone interested in electric sheep or androids, i can recommend the new movie
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19:03-!-Mazur is "Stefan Linnemann" on #oolite #openttd #openttdcoop.stable #openttdcoop
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19:05-!-tokai|noir is "Christian Rosentreter" on #openttd
19:05-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ
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19:15<Wolf01>__ln__: Yep, a lot of people recommended it to me too
19:15<supermop_home>i liked it
19:18<Wolf01>I would like it when I could purchase the dvd, or netflix, since I need to travel 40-70km to go to the nearest cinema
19:36<supermop_home>so there exists a tram with a stripe on it that goes like /
19:36<supermop_home>I assumed the other side would have \
19:36<Wolf01>Nope, still /
19:37<Wolf01>I've seen some vehicles here like it
19:37<Wolf01>OCD strikes back
19:37<supermop_home>so that sometimes it goes (_.._//_.._) --->
19:37<supermop_home>and sometimes you see it go (_.._\\_.._) --->
19:38<supermop_home>I reworked my template to have both \\ --> and // -->
19:38<supermop_home>but now I find the real tram painters were lazier than me
19:39<Wolf01>I live between 2 roro stations, I always see trains with pulling and pushing engines without any logic
19:40<supermop_home>I guess I will allow the fictitious \\
19:41<supermop_home>or could use that slot in template for an art tram or easter egg livery
19:42<Wolf01>+1
19:43<supermop_home>buy tram on my birthday and get a birthday tram
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20:17<Wolf01>'night
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20:59-!-FLHerne is "Francis Herne" on #openttd
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---Logclosed Sun Oct 08 00:00:30 2017