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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-10-11

---Logopened Wed Oct 11 00:00:34 2017
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05:59<Wolf01>o/
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06:29<crem>\o
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08:47<fkinglag>hello
08:47<fkinglag>I am having trouble hosting
08:47<fkinglag>canyone help me with this?
08:47<fkinglag>dbg: [net] [udp] sendto([master.openttd.org]:3978 (IPv6)) failed with: 101
08:47<fkinglag>I have everything port forwarded and have tried a different port too
08:49<crem>errno 101 is "network is unreachable"
08:50<crem>Which operating system do you use?
08:51<crem>does "ping6 master.openttd.org" work?
08:51<fkinglag>xubuntu 16.10 methinks
08:51<fkinglag>connect: Network is unreachable
08:51<crem>So, something with your ipv6 network settings.
08:52<fkinglag>hm
08:52<fkinglag>I don't use ipv6 knowingly :/
08:54<crem>I think it's half-set up. So openttd thinks that ipv6 is installed while in reality it's not.
08:55<crem>I don't know if it's possible to force openttd to use ipv4. But if you don't have actual ipv6 network, it's probably easier to disable ipv6 somewhere in network settings.
08:55<fkinglag>hmm I see
08:55<peter1139>Yeah, you've got a global address configured somewhere but no routing.
08:56<peter1139>Could be some VPN client doing something wrong.
08:56<crem>There are lots of people with similar issue it seems, from the search. i.e. https://bugs.openttd.org/task/2822?project=1
08:57<crem>But looking at https://irclogs.thegrebs.com/openttd/2014/05/11 ..
08:57<crem>it seems that it should not be a problem, as it tries ipv4 in the next line if it couldn't do with ipv6.
08:59<fkinglag>yeah I see similar lines in my terminal
09:00<fkinglag>it still didn't work for when I tried hosting and advertising
09:00<fkinglag>tried directly connecting with IP from outside my network too
09:00<Wolf01>Firewall?
09:00<fkinglag>no luck with another user
09:00<fkinglag>no firewall, just SPI firewall from ddwrt router
09:00<crem>Directly connecting from the game?
09:01<fkinglag>yes another client
09:01<fkinglag>I mean, my problem is hosting from my client
09:01<crem>You did set up the UDP port forwarding, right?
09:02<crem>and TCP too.
09:02<fkinglag>yes
09:02<fkinglag>both
09:02<fkinglag>have tried using a different port too
09:04<crem>You can check if your port is open using https://www.yougetsignal.com/tools/open-ports/
09:04<crem>I suspect it's still not.
09:05<fkinglag>harrumph
09:07<fkinglag>how weird, maybe I should reboot my router, a port is open that I added and the others for openttd are closed
09:07<fkinglag>here goes nothing
09:11<Wolf01>I have to reboot my router every time I change a rule, or wait some minutes
09:11<fkinglag>it didn't work :\
09:12<fkinglag>it works for a different port I have open for incoming connections
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10:11<Wolf01>https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aOB1Oj6_700b.jpg __ln__ this should be shocking
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11:14<supermop>i spent all last night drawing extra tram liveries instead of tramway locomotives
11:14<Wolf01>And what did you learn from this?
11:15<@Alberth>still not enough locomotives, I'd guess :)
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11:20<supermop>instead of ever releasing a 1.0 i will just draw tiny trams forever
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11:41<@Alberth>release 0.90 :p
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11:54<supermop>.9.0 will have 100 different tram liveries but just plain white cubes for the locomotives
11:54<Wolf01>Fine
11:55<supermop>actually i might end up with like 56 liveries
11:55<supermop>7 generations, 8 per generation
11:56<supermop>some of those are just solid color though
11:56<Wolf01>Make the graffitti version and you will end up with 112 of them
12:00<supermop>if i can get an extra slot in the sprite stack, the graffiti can be composited on randomly as function of time since last service
12:00<supermop>and melt your computer if you have 1000 old trams driving around
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12:17<supermop>actually i think i am going to need to write a complex switch for these liveries
12:17<supermop>some of them are more modern than the tram in question, like for older trams that get re painted
12:18<supermop>so obviously trams should be built with livery dependent on year, but also there should be some chance of them getting a new livery later
12:19<supermop>but i don't want all trams to necessarily get a new livery, because it would be nice if a couple older ones were still driving around
12:20<supermop>so i think i will need to figure out how trigger things work, so that when a tram enters a depot or whatever, it has some chance of getting a new livery
12:20<supermop>also, easter egg liveries should stay forever if you get one
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12:23<Samu>hi
12:23<Samu>how do I extract a .grf file?
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12:25<@Alberth>it's not compressed
12:26<@Alberth>but you can convert to NFO using grfcodec
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12:26<@Alberth>not that it will be readable or so
12:26<@Alberth>unless you like hexadecimal numbers
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12:30<LordAro>Alberth: i mean, who doesn't?
12:30<Samu>grfcodec -d <grf-file>
12:30<Samu>thid?
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12:33<@Alberth>something like that indeed
12:34<@Alberth>LordAro: as a replacement for a textual keyword? I don't
12:37<Samu>i got a .nfo file indeed, how do i change some vehicle properties? I wanna remove the running cost of wagons of this grf
12:42<@Alberth>find the number that represents the running cost property of the wagons
12:42<@Alberth>and change it :)
12:43<@Alberth>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Vehicles/Trains property 0E looks promising
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13:01<Samu>hmm
13:01<Samu>i replace 30 4C 00 00 into 00 00 00 00 ?
13:05<Cubey>I'm not sure that's right based on what it says here https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Vehicles/Trains#Running_cost_base_.280E.29_and_factor_.280D.29
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13:05<Cubey>In particular "the value here is a pointer into TTD's memory where the actual amount is stored"
13:07<@Alberth>sounds like an index, does that make sense?
13:16<Samu>all wagons were 36 4C 00 00
13:17<Samu>i think i did it
13:33<Samu>who can read this?
13:33<Samu> 259 * 101 00 00 28 01 00 00 00 00 2A E7 3C 0A 00 02 14 03 23 04 46 05 00 06 0F 07 05 09 38 00 0B C8 00 16 14 24 00 1F 1A 17 14 0D 18 21 05 22 14 19 00 0E 30 4C 00 00 12 FD 13 00 14 00 15 00 08 00 18 00 1A 80 1B 00 00 1C 00 1D 00 00 00 00 1E 91 20 00 23 00 25 00 26 14 27 1A 28 00 00 29 00 00 2B B9 00 2C 00 2D 00
13:33<Samu>:(
13:34<Samu>how do i change running cost factor? it's 0D?
13:34<Samu>whoever did this grf made costs too high, i wanna lower a bit
13:35<Wolf01>Make an extension instead of changing a grf?
13:50<@Alberth>use a basecost grf?
14:15<Wolf01>^
14:16<Samu>there is a shift being applied
14:16<Samu>3
14:16<Samu>it inflates costs, bah... :(
14:17<Samu>1175 >> 3 = 146
14:18<Samu>that's the value i was looking for
14:23<Samu>I'm reviewing one of my patches, that modifies wagon running costs based on train length
14:23<Samu>and I'm altering the formula a little bit
14:24<Samu>trying to make the cost exponentially
14:25<Samu>the more wagons the train has, the more its running costs increase, per added wagon
14:25<Wolf01>Make it so it multiplies the base cost by its position in the consist
14:26<Samu>i'm not using the position, i'm using vehicle length
14:27<Samu>i think the formula i got right now is the right approach
14:28<Samu>calculating individual running cost for each part is still tricky
14:28<Samu>i can only display this information on the train detail tab
14:29<Samu>i was now using a newgrf with wagons of different lenghts, to see if I could get the correct running costs for each of them in that window
14:30<Samu>and I think I'm missing something... that shift = 3... skewed my calcs
14:30<Samu>I was expecting a shift = 0
14:36<Samu>https://imgur.com/DZwNXm5
14:37<Samu>all wagons have the price mysteriously inflated because of that shift
14:53<supermop>ok liveries for 6th gen trams all drawn... now to i redraw the 5th generation, or finally draw locomotives
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14:54<Wolf01>Don't! Just continue with liveries :P
14:57<Wolf01>__ln__: if you want to come to visit Italy this guide will be handy for sure https://archive.org/details/03122521.5319.emory.edu don't mind the year, it's still the same
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14:58<supermop>if i draw the locomotives, then i can spend another week just drawing locomotive liveries
14:58<supermop>i wonder if the tramway trains should be all just plain open wagons that refit to anything
14:59<supermop>or if there should be separate flats, tanks, boxcars, hoppers
14:59<Wolf01>Why not both?
15:00<supermop>vehicle list gets way too long with this grf already
15:01<Wolf01>It's just one wagon
15:01<Wolf01>Oh wait, trams
15:01<supermop>also it seems stupid to buy like '0-4-0 steam engine with hoppers'
15:02<supermop>'0-4-0 steam engine with flatcars'
15:02<supermop>'steeple cab electric with tankers'
15:02<supermop>etc
15:02<Wolf01>We need combinable trams like trains
15:03<supermop>but a tram that refits from boxcars to tankers would really bother me
15:03<supermop>yes pls patch it in Wolf01
15:03<supermop>like the tram runs from the docks to the factory with tank cars, and back with box cars
15:03<supermop>where are all the empty cars piling up!
15:04<__ln__>Wolf01: "Altitudes are given in Parisian feet (1 Par. ft. = 1 1/15 Engl. ft.)" i like your guidebook already
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15:04<Wolf01>I would patch to make trains as consists so andy could make the ones he want us to use with the length he wants and the wagon he wants :P
15:05<supermop>i'd then have a use for all the various length tram segments i drew
15:06<supermop>make the articulated trams like the sh 125,
15:06<supermop>you buy the ends and then car stick various length segments in there
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15:34<OpenTTDNewbie>Hello, I'am wondering if someone here might be able to help me? I'am trying to setup a train to pick up two different goods form one station. The problem is that when loading the first cargo it is spread to all the wagons leaving no empty wagons to refit to the second cargo. So instead of filling from front to back the train is filling all wagons at the same time.
15:36<@Alberth>not possible in the general sense
15:36<@Alberth>you could use wagons that don't refit
15:37<OpenTTDNewbie>NO way to make the train not fill the wagons simultainiousley.
15:38<@Alberth>only by having less of that cargo waiting, afaik
15:39<@Alberth>openttd isn't very good with guessing how you want your cargo loaded
15:39<@Alberth>unless you have 1 cargo in the entire train
15:40<@Alberth>which is also what is being done traditionally
15:40<OpenTTDNewbie>OK. thank you. Will try to figure out a way to get some wagons that cant be re fittetd to both cargos
15:40<@Alberth>get a different trainset mostly
15:41<@Alberth>eg default set, or nuts
15:41<@Alberth>maybe others exist, don't know
15:41<@Alberth>I consider most sets unusable
15:42<Wolf01>You can refit by hand the part of the train which needs to pickup the second cargo
15:42<@Alberth>OpenTTDNewbie: when loading the first cargo it is spread to all the wagons leaving no empty wagons to refit to the second cargo <-- that's refitting at the station, right?
15:43<+glx>hmm disable gradual loading I think
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15:46<OpenTTDNewbie>Using FIRS. What i'am trying to do is with NARS boxcars. Drop off farming equipment, refit to building materials, go to next satation, pickup buildingmats, refit to packiging, pick up packinging
15:47<OpenTTDNewbie>but since buildingmats and packiging both fit into boxcars all the cars get filled with minimal amounts of building material not leaving any empty cars to refit to packiging
15:50<Wolf01>Refit at stations only works on the entire consist, I tried the same and I was lucky because every odd travel it loaded with the other product
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15:54<Wolf01>With road vehicles this is not a problem, they will be loaded randomly with one or another cargo
15:55<Wolf01>But a train is a train :P
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16:11<OpenTTDNewbie>More questions. Is there a calculator or something to help with selecting an engine for a train? I'am having a hard time figuring out what engine i need for what trains
16:14<Cubey>There probably is, but I have never found something like that to be necessary
16:15<Cubey>There aren't that many engines in most sets, just pick the speed you want (e.g. the speedlimit if your wagons), sort the engine list by max speed, and then choose from among the options with your target speed
16:19<OpenTTDNewbie>I think my biggest problem is playing with 4x cargo weight...
16:19<Cubey>You might need to double up your engines then
16:28<+glx>and go for power
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16:32<supermop>look at tractive effort
16:40<supermop>i discovered that i had not done liveries for 7th generation parcel trams
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16:46<Samu>https://imgur.com/HRcLuqc - check these running costs
16:47<Samu>is that considered exponential?
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16:48<Samu>ops, closed window
16:49<Samu>uint ind_cost = (total_len / VEHICLE_LENGTH) * cal_cost * ind_len / (divisor * 2);
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16:54<Samu>previously it was this: uint ind_cost = cal_cost * ind_len / divisor;
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17:43<Samu>4346496000 - is this number above UINT_MAX or MAX_UINT
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17:45<Samu>UINT_MAX: Maximum value for a variable of type unsigned int. 4294967295 (0xffffffff)
17:45<Samu>crap it is, omg... what can i do?
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18:39<Samu>help needed, i'm getting overflow
18:40<Samu>uint ind_cost1 = total_len * cal_cost * ind_len;
18:40<Samu>even when i try uint32 or uint64, it still overflow
18:41<Samu>total_len, cal_cost and ind_len are all uint
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18:41<Samu>how can I use the operator *
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19:13<Samu>nevermind, i found a way
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19:58<Wolf01>'night
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