Back to Home / #openttd / 2017 / 10 / Prev Day | Next Day
#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-10-14

---Logopened Sat Oct 14 00:00:38 2017
00:54-!-Coobies [~Coobies@pool-96-241-233-56.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:55-!-sim-al2 is now known as Guest6676
00:55-!-sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd
00:55-!-sim-al2 is "sim-al2" on #openttd @#/r/openttd
01:00-!-Guest6676 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:56-!-synchris [~synchris@139.138.202.72] has joined #openttd
01:56-!-synchris is "Synesios Christou" on #openttd
01:58-!-Alberth [~alberth@00015f9e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
01:58-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
01:58-!-Alberth is "purple" on @#openttd
02:15-!-tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd
02:15-!-tycoondemon is "..." on #openttdcoop.stable #openttdcoop #openttd
02:17-!-andythenorth [~andytheno@cpc87219-aztw31-2-0-cust178.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
02:17-!-andythenorth is "andythenorth" on #openttd
02:21<@Alberth>o/
02:25<andythenorth>moin
02:36<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8686/horse_edible_tanks.png
02:36<andythenorth>another case where generations look the same :P
02:37<andythenorth>also
02:38<andythenorth>edibles tank cars and refrigerated cars are hauled by pax engines
02:38<andythenorth>which will look odd with train 24
02:43<@Alberth>it does, just like the default set with farms
02:43<@Alberth>any particular reason the blue line must be horizontal?
02:44<@Alberth>although I also had the thought, "why do we have these tankers at all?"
02:45<@Alberth>but euhm, I don't expect food to be delivered by the gallon :p
02:45-!-sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@78.96.209.89] has joined #openttd
02:45-!-sla_ro|master is "slamaster" on @#sla #openttd #love
02:46<@Alberth>have less generations?
02:47<@Alberth>it's not a rule to be completely symmetrical everywhere
02:47<@Alberth>hmm, place top entry holes off-center? ie not symmetrical
02:48<@Alberth>or don't have them at all in some case?
02:51<andythenorth>I wondered about inverting white and CC for some generations
02:54<@Alberth>vertical CC, several lines is possible
02:54<@Alberth>although some form of diagonal would break the pattern more
02:55<@Alberth>but that may cause trouble with your other wagons
02:56<andythenorth>RL has some guides
02:56<andythenorth>http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_01_2012/post-2919-0-16461100-1325661152.jpg
02:57<andythenorth>http://www.themodelcentre.com/product_images/uploaded_images/4F-031-005.jpg
02:57<andythenorth>http://www.gwr.org.uk/gallery/badairylarge.jpg
02:57<andythenorth>http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-sxnqZ-p1k-Y/UABL9301IDI/AAAAAAAAC0I/DdBBN2cOTUc/s1600/GWR+Milk+Tank+W2835+of+1939.+16.4.2010.JPG
03:03<@Alberth>latter has some nice CC a the bottom :)
03:30<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8687/horse_edible_tanks_2.png
03:30<andythenorth>kind of works
03:30<andythenorth>not convinced though
03:42-!-JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80683-stap13-2-0-cust1171.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
03:42-!-JacobD88 is "JacobD88" on #openttd.dev #openttd.notice #openttd
03:45<@Alberth>yeah, looks like it's partly filled :p
03:45<@Alberth>make some vertical white in it?
03:48<andythenorth>I think I need to keep the colour scheme, and vary the silhouette
03:49<andythenorth>firs gen now smaller http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8688/horse_edible_tanks_3.png
03:50<andythenorth>first *
03:58-!-JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80683-stap13-2-0-cust1171.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88]
04:04<@Alberth>quite subtle, but nice :)
04:06-!-ToffeeYogurtPots [~ToffeeYog@0BGAACVPH.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:06-!-ToffeeYogurtPots [~ToffeeYog@tornode1.coffswifi.net] has joined #openttd
04:06-!-ToffeeYogurtPots is "realname" on #apparmor #tor-onions #tor-offtopic #i2p #tor #tor-project #https-everywhere #privacybadger #openttd #privacytools.io #privacytech #redditprivacy #oftc
04:19-!-gelignite [~gelignite@x4db652c7.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd
04:19-!-gelignite is "gelignite" on #openttd #openttdcoop.devzone
04:23<andythenorth>hmm
04:25<andythenorth>yo V453000
04:41-!-Progman [~progman@p579C8EF4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
04:41-!-Progman is "Peter Henschel" on #openttdcoop.dev #openttdcoop #openttd
05:02-!-andythenorth [~andytheno@cpc87219-aztw31-2-0-cust178.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
05:10-!-Breckett [~DDD@p57B95858.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
05:10-!-Breckett is "Breckett" on #openttd
05:10<@Alberth>o/
05:11-!-Breckett [~DDD@p57B95858.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit []
05:25-!-ToffeeYogurtPots [~ToffeeYog@4G4AACQ1O.tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:30<Eddi|zuHause>which tank do horses prefer to eat, then, if the tanks are edible by horses?
05:31<@Alberth>filled tanks, of course
05:37-!-ToffeeYogurtPots [~ToffeeYog@tor-relay-5.danwin1210.me] has joined #openttd
05:37-!-ToffeeYogurtPots is "realname" on #apparmor #tor-onions #tor-offtopic #i2p #tor #tor-project #https-everywhere #privacybadger #openttd #privacytools.io #privacytech #redditprivacy #oftc
05:50-!-urdh [~urdh@00013d7a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Boom!]
05:51-!-gelignite [~gelignite@x4db652c7.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: I have always found that mercy bears richer fruits than strict justice.]
05:52-!-urdh [~urdh@00013d7a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
05:52-!-urdh is "Simon Sigurdhsson" on #openttd #moocows #fish
05:58-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@dslb-188-103-254-155.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #openttd
05:58-!-HerzogDeXtEr is "purple" on #openttd
06:00-!-Cubey [~Coobies@pool-96-241-233-56.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd
06:00-!-Cubey is "Jaybar" on #openttd
06:09-!-Alberth [~alberth@00015f9e.user.oftc.net] has left #openttd []
06:19-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
06:19-!-Wolf01 is "Wolf01" on #openttd
06:20<Wolf01>Moin
06:28-!-andythenorth [~andytheno@cpc87219-aztw31-2-0-cust178.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
06:28-!-andythenorth is "andythenorth" on #openttd
06:32<Wolf01>o/
06:33<andythenorth>lo
06:36*andythenorth has design problem
06:39<Eddi|zuHause>singular?
06:43-!-Cubey [~Coobies@pool-96-241-233-56.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:00-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@dslb-188-103-254-155.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:03<andythenorth>likely multiple related
07:03<andythenorth>treatable as one
07:03<andythenorth>logical progression means freight trains at 140mph by 202
07:03<andythenorth>2020 *
07:06<Wolf01>Why not?
07:08<andythenorth>1. looks daft, freight wagons with high speed pax engines
07:08<andythenorth>2. road vehicles are 80mph for same game date
07:09<andythenorth>3. reality
07:10<Wolf01>So you want to stick to reality but still don't want much realism?
07:14<andythenorth>let’s say it’s about a 50% connection
07:14<andythenorth>IRL freight train speeds are 75mph, or rarely 80-90mph
07:15<andythenorth>110mph is ok in game
07:15<andythenorth>140…not
07:16<Wolf01>Make multistorey intermodal cars
07:17<Wolf01>So speed become relative, and you double the capacity instead
07:19<andythenorth>I considered higher capacity instead of higher speed
07:21<andythenorth>I could use the train air drag property :P
07:21<andythenorth>it’s a non-trivial factor for freight train speeds
07:22*andythenorth biab
07:22-!-andythenorth [~andytheno@cpc87219-aztw31-2-0-cust178.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
07:27-!-Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd
07:27-!-Wormnest is "Wormnest" on #openttd
07:56-!-frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
07:56-!-frosch123 is "frosch" on #openttdcoop.devzone #openttd.dev #openttd
08:00<Wolf01>Quak
08:00<frosch123>moo
08:02-!-andythenorth [~andytheno@cpc87219-aztw31-2-0-cust178.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
08:02-!-andythenorth is "andythenorth" on #openttd
08:04-!-Samu [~oftc-webi@pa4-84-91-142-34.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd
08:04-!-Samu is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #openttd
08:12<andythenorth>so
08:22<Wolf01>Lemons
08:22<Samu>hi
08:24<Samu>i'm testing the results of my patch, and it's... impressive
08:24<Wolf01>You filed for bankruptcy in 2 years?
08:24<Samu>remember airport infrastructure costs?
08:25<andythenorth>I hate designing top-end of a roster
08:25<andythenorth>it’s so boring
08:25<Samu>there is no luxury of having trains waiting to load now, running costs don't allow it now
08:26<Wolf01>Try a rooster instead
08:27<Samu>have to compare these profits with trucks
08:27<andythenorth>stupid trains
08:27<andythenorth>are stupid
08:28<Samu>i kinda like it that I have to care about the number of wagons on a train
08:28<Samu>you wouldn't make excess number of trucks if they have to wait to load, so trains now are getting the same treatment
08:31<andythenorth>why do refrigerated cars and edibles tank cars go at pax train speeds?
08:32<Wolf01>Express delivery?
08:32<andythenorth>yair
08:33<andythenorth>also it’s just a bit of variety eh
08:35<andythenorth>and you can run food into towns on same tracks as pax/mail
08:38<andythenorth>dunno, it all seems a bit ‘blah’
08:39<andythenorth>it’s the same in the dragon games
08:39<Wolf01>You don't run freight in cities by train, you know
08:39<andythenorth>the first 10 or so dragon classes are really interesting
08:39<andythenorth>when you collect the 51st class of dragon
08:39<andythenorth>'whatever'
08:40*andythenorth wonders if it can be solved by pretending game starts in 2020
08:43<Wolf01>https://xkcd.com/1902/ lol
08:45<Wolf01>Menawhile, I finished the renders https://imgur.com/a/4hRQI
08:45<Wolf01>*meanwhile too
08:46<andythenorth>problem is fricking high speed pax trains
08:46<andythenorth>they mess up the roster
08:46<andythenorth>from 1860-1985, there is a consistent pattern
08:46<andythenorth>small fast, big fast, small freight, big freight
08:47<andythenorth>but all modern fast pax trains have pointy engine things at both ends
08:47<andythenorth>this looks stupid hauling freight
08:47<andythenorth>or mail
08:51<andythenorth>hmm
08:53<andythenorth>maybe the pointy things are some extra pax-only class
08:56-!-ToBeFree [~tobefree@00019d36.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
08:56-!-ToBeFree is "Tobias "ToBeFree" Frei" on #https-everywhere @#freiwuppertal #oolite-dev #openttd #tor #debian #linux #oolite #oolite-ger
08:57*andythenorth such thinking
08:57<andythenorth>brain steam
09:02<Wolf01>Let's check some real life suggestions
09:03<andythenorth>trying to figure out whether to split mail / freight
09:03<andythenorth>currently mail cars refit to freight
09:03<andythenorth>and mail cars go at pax speeds
09:03<andythenorth>so you have super-fast pointy trains hauling explosives or vehicle parts :P
09:03-!-ToBeFree [~tobefree@00019d36.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
09:08<Wolf01>Real life says really fast freight trains it's useless
09:11<Wolf01>Or ignore RL and move to galaxy express: https://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/aucimg/8/8/8/5/0000748885.jpeg
09:18<andythenorth>neat
09:18<andythenorth>maybe I should split pax/mail
09:18<andythenorth>hog and sam don’t combine them
09:26-!-roidal [~roland@193-154-136-195.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd
09:26-!-roidal is "roland" on #openttd
09:33-!-Alberth [~alberth@00015f9e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
09:33-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
09:33-!-Alberth is "purple" on @#openttd
09:33<Wolf01>o/
09:33<@Alberth>o/
09:35<Flygon>o/
09:48<Wolf01>BBL, very later
09:56-!-Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd
09:56-!-Gja is "Martin" on #bcache #openttd
09:56-!-sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:27<Samu>heh, i thought the impact of inflation would be terribad, but apparently it's still under control
10:29-!-Flygon [~Flygon@124-148-158-195.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:35<andythenorth>supermop: yo
10:35<supermop_>yo
10:36<supermop_>what to do about inscrutable slack message from boss at 11:59 pm
10:37<supermop_>that seems to be a screed about not sending out some material, when said boss was copied on the email sending it out, and even replied to the thread
10:37*supermop_ is thinking the answer is 'quit job'
10:38<andythenorth>maybe
10:39*andythenorth thinks no HST for Brit Horse
10:39<supermop_>boooo
10:39<supermop_>it should be all HSTs
10:39<andythenorth>I can replace it with something funnner
10:39<andythenorth>an actual engine
10:40<andythenorth>which one?
10:40<supermop_>HST = best brit industrial design
10:40<andythenorth>I know but it’s bad in game :P
10:40<supermop_>way better than a dyson
10:40<andythenorth>what about an iphone?
10:40<supermop_>maybe better than an e-type
10:40<andythenorth>iphone is quite boring actually
10:40<supermop_>ives is a bad designer
10:40<andythenorth>what engine then, for 1990 or so, fast pax
10:40<supermop_>avocet?
10:41<andythenorth>got that already, electric
10:41<andythenorth>need a diesel
10:41<andythenorth>either class 67-ish
10:41<supermop_>hst
10:41<andythenorth>the dual-headed thing is too weird
10:41<andythenorth>and there’s no way to force it to pax-only
10:41<supermop_>sell it one piece
10:41<supermop_>let people buy two if they really want
10:41<andythenorth>maybe
10:41<andythenorth>dunn
10:41<andythenorth>dunno *
10:42<supermop_>or you could just do a dyson vacuum
10:42<andythenorth>hoover :P
10:42<andythenorth>could do an upgraded class 50, and call it dyson
10:42<andythenorth>low quality pun
10:42<andythenorth>the set progression relies on ‘fast diesel’ rather than ‘pax train'
10:43<andythenorth>so HST just doesn’t fit right
10:46<andythenorth>I could do the wagon-attach callback I guess
10:46<andythenorth>and only allow pax coachs
10:46<andythenorth>dunno, biabn
10:47-!-debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4182:a200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
10:51-!-debdog [~debdog@ip-37-201-5-138.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd
10:51-!-debdog is "Wowbagger" on #openttd
10:52<supermop_>why can't one of the buffered 43's pull hoppers?
10:54<supermop_>brb laundry
11:03<Samu>https://imgur.com/6e8GYRd - running costs are under control with inflation
11:14-!-debdog [~debdog@ip-37-201-5-138.hsi13.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
11:17<FLHerne>andythenorth: I don't think back-to-back pair of power cars would look too strange on freight
11:17-!-debdog [~debdog@2a02:8070:4182:a200:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d] has joined #openttd
11:17-!-debdog is "Wowbagger" on #openttd
11:17<FLHerne>Happens with the sleeper trains occasionally https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-HrLMije3G3c/VI7qbo4rEhI/AAAAAAAAEDM/GZiafiK0FtU/s640/blogger-image--178116772.jpg
11:19<FLHerne>http://rail.bodnet.com/hstbeds/213_1331resize.jpg
11:19<@Alberth>what makes you think reality is not weird?
11:21<supermop_>2 43s and a 47?
11:22<andythenorth>FLHerne: is that photoshopped :)
11:22<FLHerne>GWR use 57s (re-engined 47s) on the sleeper, but they're not especially reliable
11:22<andythenorth>http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/50932-back-to-back-hst-power-cars-drag-the-night-sleeper/
11:22<FLHerne>And there aren't exactly a lot of spare locos out west anymore
11:22<andythenorth>such
11:23<supermop_>so.. the 2x 43s are the backup?
11:23<FLHerne>So that happens quite often, because there /are/ a ton of HST power cars to borrow
11:23<FLHerne>Well, a couple of times a year afaict
11:24<supermop_>so why not just use the 43s?
11:24<FLHerne>andythenorth: No, but this one is https://www.railforums.co.uk/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Falbum.atomic-systems.com%2FshowPic.php%2F24554%2Fweird.jpg&hash=66294b11ac8f0634299bb701a1ceb891
11:24<andythenorth>I found that one already :)
11:25<FLHerne>supermop_: They don't have a standard ECS supply
11:25<FLHerne>supermop_: They looked at rewiring all the sleeper stock to work with HST power (three-phase 470V AC rather than ~1000V DC), but apparently it wasn't worthwhile
11:26<FLHerne>Anyway, there haven't been any spare HST powercars until very recently
11:36<andythenorth>hmm
11:36<andythenorth>well I am no less puzzled
11:36<andythenorth>the roster has a design, and the HST doesn’t fit :P
11:40<andythenorth>maybe I should fix the railcars
11:41-!-glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
11:41-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
11:41-!-glx is "Loïc GUILLOUX" on +#openttd
11:42<andythenorth>I’m splitting pax and parcels railcars
11:42<andythenorth>shall I call parcels Scooby Doo? :P
12:10<@Alberth>sure
12:29-!-gelignite [~gelignite@x4db652c7.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd
12:29-!-gelignite is "gelignite" on #openttd #openttdcoop.devzone
12:30<andythenorth>so wagon attach callback….stupid and annoying?
12:30<andythenorth>(that’s the one that limits which wagons can be hauled by which engines)
12:39<frosch123>better than start/stop callback
12:39<supermop_>what if it was only stop callback
12:39<supermop_>"can't stop this train: it lacks a brake van"
12:41<andythenorth>:P
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the worst part about is is that you can trivially circumvent it
12:42<supermop_>Eddi|zuHause: there exist wagons in real life for that
12:43<andythenorth>supermop: I need a fake 1990s fast diesel
12:43<andythenorth>probably end up with a class 67, but that’s borings
12:44<supermop_>if its fake, just take a box with a sloping cab on one or both ends
12:44<andythenorth>name
12:44<andythenorth>and stats
12:44<supermop_>dyson
12:44<andythenorth>probably a trademark :P
12:44<andythenorth>also dyson is a nickname for class 92 :P
12:45<supermop_>trademarks are specific to markets
12:45<andythenorth>yeah, it’s trademarked for toys and games
12:45<supermop_>why
12:46<andythenorth>kids have toy dysons
12:46<supermop_>haha
12:46<supermop_>really?
12:46<andythenorth>we have toy Henry also :P
12:46<supermop_>so british
12:46<andythenorth>https://image.smythstoys.com/original/desktop/122676.jpg
12:46<supermop_>do they have toy hand dryers?
12:46<andythenorth>not yet
12:46<andythenorth>probably sell like hot cakes
12:47<supermop_>henry shop vac is basically a toy already
12:47<andythenorth>let’s fake something
12:47<supermop_>hmm 90s british
12:47<supermop_>'fatboy'
12:47<andythenorth>refurbished hoover
12:47<supermop_>'big beat'
12:47<andythenorth>or a re-engined class 47
12:47<andythenorth>or a 67 (skip)
12:48<supermop_>'blur'
12:48<andythenorth>previous gen pax engine is ‘wizzo’ (class 42 / 52 hybrid)
12:49<supermop_>'gatecrasher'
12:49<supermop_>does it have to be early 90s?
12:49<andythenorth>no
12:49<andythenorth>flying log?
12:49<andythenorth>Doughnut?
12:49<andythenorth>Fast Jet?
12:50<andythenorth>I just added ‘Plastic Postbox’ for mail :P
12:50<andythenorth>Thunderbird?
12:50<supermop_>good loco name
12:50<supermop_>hopefully players dont think it is only for stuck trains
12:51<supermop_>going to get some lunch
12:52-!-glx_ [~glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:1fb:d12a:b94e:ea92] has joined #openttd
12:52-!-glx_ is "Loïc GUILLOUX" on #opendune #openttd.noai #openttd.notice #openttd
12:52-!-glx is now known as Guest6709
12:52-!-glx_ is now known as glx
12:58-!-Guest6709 [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:03-!-juzza1 [~juzza1@0001bead.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:09-!-juzza1 [~juzza1@0001bead.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
13:09-!-juzza1 is "juzza1" on #openttdcoop.devzone #openttd
13:42-!-Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
13:56-!-Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd
13:56-!-Gja is "Martin" on #bcache #openttd
14:17-!-DDR [~DDR_unhap@S0106f0f249839863.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:38<supermop_>hmm maybe I should re-order p list
14:39<supermop_> electric trams, diesel trams, then electric mail trams, then diesel mail trams
14:39<supermop_>feels weird
14:40<supermop_>electric pax, electric mail, diesel pax, diesel mail?
14:40<supermop_>or elec. pax, elec mail, elect articulated pax, elect articulated mail .....
14:40<supermop_>i wonder how egrvts does it
14:41<frosch123>via refit?
14:41<supermop_>they are separate trams
14:42<supermop_>in both egrvts and my grf
14:42<supermop_>RVs that change between passengers and cargo don't work well due to how roadstops work
14:42<frosch123>true
14:44<supermop_>egrvts seems to go all pax, then all mail
14:45<supermop_>not sure how ill divide between diesel and electric though
15:06<andythenorth>ach
15:06<andythenorth>if a roster is Brit-ish
15:06<andythenorth>and the UK doesn’t have fast passenger trains
15:06<andythenorth>what to do?
15:06<supermop_>dream?
15:06<andythenorth>players complain there’s no fast trains
15:07<andythenorth>but the stats progression doesn’t permit them
15:07<supermop_>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterCity_250
15:07<andythenorth>the previous electric engine is 3,200hp
15:07<andythenorth>and hp goes up in 800hp incremements
15:07<supermop_>^ has 7400
15:07<andythenorth>previous speed is 110mph, and it goes up in 15mph increments
15:07<andythenorth>I know :)
15:08<supermop_>whoosh
15:08<andythenorth>sudden huge stats bumps mess up the game
15:08<andythenorth>that’s what railtypes are for
15:09<andythenorth>I am thinking again about adding high speed rail
15:09<andythenorth>from 2000 or so
15:12<supermop_>horse is the realm of idealized BR-ish dreams
15:12<andythenorth>it’s getting horribly realistic tbh
15:12<andythenorth>real names
15:12<supermop_>so a 93-ish loco would make sense
15:12<andythenorth>real stats :(
15:13<supermop_>I assume horse runs in a dream world where steel and coal are still nationalized
15:13<andythenorth>you should try a nightly
15:13<supermop_>how else does a steel mill get built in the middle of nowhere and sit idle for decades until you get around to serving it
15:13<andythenorth>it’s not playable really :P
15:14<andythenorth>hmm, maybe some very fast EMUs with pax on the engine
15:14<andythenorth>like Pendolinos
15:14<supermop_>makes sense
15:14<andythenorth>not sure what problem I’m solving :)
15:14<andythenorth>freight is capped at 100mph anyway :)
15:14<supermop_>me neither
15:15<andythenorth>I should add more railcars, they are easy :P
15:15<supermop_>still cant decide how to stack up my tree of switches
15:16<andythenorth>I don’t want to persuade you to templating :)
15:17<andythenorth>but the switch order only matters for compile times :)
15:17<andythenorth>[and personal satisfaction]
15:17<supermop_>not going to happy until wife has more free time
15:17<supermop_>*happen
15:17<supermop_>if I teach myself python now, ill be bombarding her with questions
15:17<supermop_>same with c
15:18<andythenorth>templating first needs familiarity with writing it manually anyway
15:19<andythenorth>hmm
15:19*andythenorth has some ideas, might be more than one
15:28<andythenorth>high speed passenger electric units
15:28<andythenorth>2-car units, with magic when multiple units are in a consist
15:34-!-Alberth [~alberth@00015f9e.user.oftc.net] has left #openttd []
15:35<supermop_>I wonder what 'date_of_last_service' returns if vehicle has not yet services
15:39<supermop_>also maybe I should make livery random after 2050 or 2100, to break up monotony of 'last' livery going on forever
15:39<supermop_>presumably, in 2100, a 1980s tram is a preserved novelty, and riders would be interested in all the various historic liveries it carried
15:40-!-Stimrol [~Stimrol@82-221-246-15.ljoshradi.is] has joined #openttd
15:40-!-Stimrol is "Stimrol" on #openttd
15:41<supermop_>I'm thinking of shying away from frosch's code to just make livery based on build/depot year absolutely, with no random
15:44-!-sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@78.96.209.89] has quit []
15:52-!-Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
15:53<supermop_>if date of last service returns YYYY, MM, DD
15:54<supermop_>can I make a decision only on the MM, DD?
15:54<supermop_>like, and tram that goes to depot on may 5th (on any year) gets a special livery?
16:03<andythenorth>someone’s birthday?
16:04<supermop_>in this case the z-class's birthday
16:04<supermop_>but just a way to hide an ultra rare special livery
16:04<supermop_>like an art tram
16:05<supermop_>easier to give it 1 in 256 change to randomly appear, but date feels more special
16:05<supermop_>I think ive dropped the idea though
16:15-!-synchris [~synchris@139.138.202.72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:25-!-sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd
16:25-!-sim-al2 is "sim-al2" on #openttd @#/r/openttd
16:27-!-Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd
16:27-!-Gja is "Martin" on #bcache #openttd
16:27-!-Cubey [~Coobies@pool-96-241-233-56.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd
16:27-!-Cubey is "Jaybar" on #openttd
16:29-!-gelignite [~gelignite@x4db652c7.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: I have always found that mercy bears richer fruits than strict justice.]
16:33-!-roidal [~roland@193-154-136-195.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9]
16:34-!-Greyfur [~oftc-webi@2a02:ab04:132:dc00:d966:a826:78cc:6d70] has joined #openttd
16:34-!-Greyfur is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #openttd
16:35<Greyfur>Hello!
16:41<andythenorth>lo
16:42<andythenorth>supermop: so I’m adding some express pax electric units
16:42<andythenorth>wondering whether to go all way back to brighton belle?
16:42<andythenorth>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_403
16:47<supermop_>nice
16:49<Greyfur>Anyone coding vehicles in NML?
16:51<supermop_>trying to
16:51<Wolf01>Back, better late than never, lost in the mist
16:56*andythenorth is coding vehicles
16:57<Wolf01>I'm stuffed of japanese food
17:05-!-mindlesstux [~mindlesst@2001:19f0:5:238:5400:ff:fe30:7f01] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in]
17:06-!-mindlesstux [~mindlesst@2001:19f0:5:238:5400:ff:fe30:7f01] has joined #openttd
17:06-!-mindlesstux is "ZNC - http://znc.in" on #virtualization #virt @#tuz-oftc @#tuz #qemu #osm #openttd #openconnect #observium #linode #ipv6 #OpenRailwayMap
17:12<Wolf01>https://www.flickr.com/photos/95779836@N06/sets/72157687742074994 trolleybus!
17:12<supermop_>Wolf01 !!
17:17*andythenorth bed
17:17<Wolf01>Slashdot: "What Will Replace Computer Keyboards?"... other computer keyboards
17:17-!-andythenorth [~andytheno@cpc87219-aztw31-2-0-cust178.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
17:24<Greyfur>Wolf01: http://www.mestskadoprava.net/galeria/galleries/TMB/Akce/31-TMReckovice_21.4.07-1.jpg
17:24<Greyfur>:P trolleybus.
17:25<Wolf01>:)
17:25<supermop_>implementing frosch's magic for repainting
17:25<supermop_>fingers crossed
17:30-!-Greyfur_ [~oftc-webi@188-167-251-252.dynamic.chello.sk] has joined #openttd
17:30-!-Greyfur_ is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #openttd
17:31-!-Greyfur [~oftc-webi@2a02:ab04:132:dc00:d966:a826:78cc:6d70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:43<supermop_>well my implementation is almost twice as long
17:57-!-Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:11-!-Progman [~progman@p579C8EF4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:21-!-frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
18:37-!-Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)]
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: clearly keyboards will be replaced by minority-report-like gestures
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>those are obviously way superior
18:41<Wolf01>Yeah, Elon already show it IRL
18:42<Wolf01>But I don't think we'll see it in homes, maybe in some companies
18:45-!-Flygon [~Flygon@124-148-158-195.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd
18:45-!-Flygon is "Flygon" on #openttd
19:16<supermop_>hmm
19:16<supermop_>I think I am missing something for this random livery stuff
19:16-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@dslb-188-103-254-155.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #openttd
19:16-!-HerzogDeXtEr is "purple" on #openttd
19:24<Greyfur_>Supermop_ You are doing random livery road vehicles?
19:25<supermop_>not entirely random
19:25<supermop_>that would be easy
19:25<Greyfur_>That is something I have been recently doing for Karosa ýéé buses myself...
19:25<Greyfur_>Karosa 700
19:25<supermop_>the idea is that a tram might be in service for 40-50 years
19:25<Greyfur_>yes
19:25<supermop_>and maybe even though it is old, sometimes it gets a 'new' livery
19:26<supermop_>and it should only get the new livery if it is in the depot for service
19:26<Greyfur_>Ok, so does the livery change base on current year?
19:26<supermop_>but not all trams get repainted right away
19:27<supermop_>so it has maybe only a 25% of getting the new paint
19:27<supermop_>and it never will get an 'old' livery to replace a new one
19:27<Greyfur_>I understand, so based on current year a % chance it will be repainted
19:28<supermop_>so the problem is, if every tram always immediately gets the new one, easy just have a current year switch
19:28<supermop_>and if it is just a probability what livery to get, easy, just use random_bits
19:29<supermop_>but to prevent new tram getting old livery, but also allow some old trams to keep old livery
19:29<supermop_>you need some big code with random triggers
19:30<supermop_>because otherwise trams have no storage to 'remember' their current livery
19:30<supermop_>I don't know if it works yet
19:30<Greyfur_>If you know what the old livery was and in which years it has been produced... I think you could do a build_year switch, which would then point towards the current year switch, which would then point towards random_switch
19:31<supermop_>yes but lets say a tram is built 1970, with 1970 paint
19:32<supermop_>it goes to depot in 1980, and switch says 'from 1979 to 1982, 25% chance of getting 1980 paint'
19:32<supermop_>so tram gets lucky and gets new paint
19:32<supermop_>now in 1981, maybe it goes to depot again, rolls dice again
19:33<supermop_>but there is still 75% chance to get the 1970 paint,
19:33-!-Greyfur [~oftc-webi@188-167-251-252.dynamic.chello.sk] has joined #openttd
19:33-!-Greyfur is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #openttd
19:33<Greyfur>Got disconnected
19:33<Greyfur>sorry
19:33<supermop_>so now newly repainted tram gets painted back to the old
19:33-!-Greyfur_ [~oftc-webi@188-167-251-252.dynamic.chello.sk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:34<Greyfur>yes, I see your point
19:34<supermop_>so you need a way 'ratchet' the liveries
19:34<supermop_>so 1970 ->1980 can happen, but 1980 -> 1970 cannot
19:35<supermop_>I might give up and get rid of the random
19:35<supermop_>because maybe most players do not send tram to depot often
19:35<Greyfur>For custom texts, there is something like return CB_RESULT_NO_TEXT;
19:36<Greyfur>Is there a way to get out of a wswitch without a change?
19:36<supermop_>we couldn't figure one out
19:37<supermop_>the tram doesn't really go 'into' the switch knowing it's current state, so there isn't a way to leave the switch with same state as it entered
19:37<Greyfur>I know that issue
19:38<supermop_>the best way seems to be to just randomly trigger whether it goes to the switch at all
19:38<supermop_>but I have never used random trigger before, so I don't know if I am doing it right
19:38<Greyfur>but that already asks for an option to do no change at all
19:39-!-Stimrol [~Stimrol@82-221-246-15.ljoshradi.is] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in]
19:39<supermop_>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pr1k87qsc#line-35
19:39<Greyfur>I do have random triggers based on % chance
19:40<supermop_>here is code frosch proposed for me
19:40<Greyfur>I am picking realistic liveries based on the production year
19:41<Greyfur>but you cannot base anything on productrion month, so I have to do it randomly within that year
19:43<supermop_>you can use date of last service maybe?
19:43<supermop_>it is set to the day of construction when you first build it
19:44<supermop_>ofc it will reset everytime it goes to depot
19:44<supermop_>but you could use a vehicle age switch to skip that one
19:45<supermop_>so if vehicle is >1 day old, it no longer looks at date of last service
19:53<Greyfur>That is a good idea. I will try it
19:54-!-Samu [~oftc-webi@pa4-84-91-142-34.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20:03<Flygon><supermop_> so now newly repainted tram gets painted back to the old
20:04<Flygon>Not like it hasn't happened before IRL - But it's not exactly all that likely.
20:04<Flygon>(I'm still bermused that 90s V/Line was so ghetto that they ran some locomotives with 60s/70s VR livery still...)
20:05<Flygon>(Granted, it's come in a full circle with some locomotives going VR Blue/Yellow > V/Line Orange > V/Line Red-Blue > VR Blue/Yellow)
20:05<sim-al2>well if it works...
20:05<Flygon>sim-al2: V/Line just had... no money.
20:06<supermop_>well if its a vinyl wrap, conceivably it will peel off to reveal the old livery
20:09<sim-al2>isn't the new livery purple and yellow?
20:10<sim-al2>or that red and yellow version for that matter
20:10<supermop_>sim-al2: the purple is just on DMUs I believe
20:10<Flygon>It's Purple and Yellow now on V/Line.
20:10<sim-al2>N457 is in it now
20:10<Flygon>Nah, they did an N-class in it.
20:10<sim-al2>(kinda weird to be changing the livery every few years)
20:10<Flygon>It's now called "The Violet Crumble" Livery.
20:10<sim-al2>https://twitter.com/vicsig/status/844709331375403008
20:11<supermop_>Flygon: have they put ptv triangles on the locomotives now?
20:11<Flygon>Yes.
20:11<supermop_>i'm down
20:12<supermop_>although I can see a categorical distinction between the loco hauled and dmu services... why not red triangles?
20:12<Flygon>What do ya mean?
20:12<sim-al2>I do like the blue and yellow on the suburban electrics
20:13<Flygon>I still reckon the Green/Yellow livery was the best on suburbans. D:
20:13<supermop_>trams: green emus: blue dmus: purple stock: red buses:orange
20:14<supermop_>mandate taxis get a yellow triangle livery and you have a regionally cohesive scheme for each 'type' of transit
20:15<Flygon>inb4 all cars have to be Silver.
20:15<supermop_>silver taxis are a bit silly
20:16<Flygon>Yeah. I... don't understand them.
20:16<Flygon>Why aren't all Taxis yellow?
20:16<supermop_>taxis should be readily identifiable even to those who aren't good at recognizing cars or with poor vision
20:17<supermop_>doesn't need to be yellow, but yellow is good because its highly visible and not very common among private cars
20:18<sim-al2>London of course has distinct vehicles
20:18<supermop_>uk accesibilty laws actually now mandate train doors be colored in a contrasting identifiable manner
20:18<sim-al2>good move really
20:19<sim-al2>silly to have the doors blend in until they open
20:19<supermop_>you'd think a door would be obvious, but many people might not notice it right away, even if they have good vision
20:19<sim-al2>plug doors tend to be less noticeable
20:22<sim-al2>regardless of laws I've noticed that many commuter and regional trains already have their doors painted in a similar way
20:23<sim-al2>at least with sliding doors the pocket tends to create more contrast
20:24<supermop_>side of a train car doesn't leave many easy options for branding colors, contrasting doors is an easy way to get your color scheme in and make it more functional
20:26<Flygon>I hate plug doors.
20:26<Flygon>So much.
20:27<Flygon>But I also hate electronically opened sunken doors.
20:27<Flygon>They open so slowly.
20:27<Flygon>And close like shit too.
20:27<sim-al2>might need to steal some Japanese doors then
20:27<Flygon>Comeng doors are nice - They close reasonably quickly, and they're shit quick to open.
20:27<Flygon>Nah, it's some kinda regulation thing.
20:28<Flygon>The Government is terrified someone could lose a limb if the electronic doors closed too quickly.
20:28*Flygon points to that singular Shinkansen death that's actually caused by a fault in the Shinkansen
20:28<sim-al2>well people do tend to try and rush in as the doors close
20:28<Flygon>(Of course, this being Japan, they've probably now programmed their doors to not accidentally decapitate passengers...)
20:28<sim-al2>so you do need to make sure it's not unsafe
20:29<Flygon>True. But... paranoia is paranoia.
20:29<Flygon>Even if it's perfectly solvable.
20:29<Flygon>(A door can close quickly while not actually exerting much force, for example. The Comengs are already a good example of this)
20:29<sim-al2>also on a really crowded train people and their stuff might be in the path of a door
20:29<sim-al2>yeah true
20:30-!-Greyfur [~oftc-webi@188-167-251-252.dynamic.chello.sk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:30<Flygon>> Greyfur
20:30<Flygon>Made me check what IRC server I was on for a second there, hahaha.
20:30<Flygon>(For some reason, Australian furry fandom has a disproportionately large Gunzel population >_>)
20:31<sim-al2>lol
20:31<sim-al2>hmm the new V/line livery is also appearing on the carriages
20:31<sim-al2>https://railgallery.wongm.com/vline-new-mk4-livery/
20:31<sim-al2>not sure if I like it
20:32<supermop_>its ok but
20:33<supermop_>center cars of emus, dmus and trams do not have the triangles ends
20:33<supermop_>I get that stock isn't fixed in formation, but
20:33<sim-al2>they could just pull an Amtrak and not care
20:34<supermop_>I mean, it could just be purple stripe at top and yellow at bottom
20:34<supermop_>and look fine
20:35<sim-al2>I assume that whoever designed it really wanted the geometric patterns at the ends
20:35<Flygon>I don't like the livery on the carriages...
20:35<Flygon>It... the grey section just looks too flat.
20:35<Flygon>Also it's a graffiti magnet.
20:36<Flygon>Now, if it was a carriage like the Comengs? With that stainless steel look?...
20:36<supermop_>isn't it stainless?
20:36<supermop_>looks it
20:36<Flygon>https://railgallery.wongm.com/albums/vline-new-mk4-livery/F119_3232.jpg
20:36<Flygon>The grey is Vynil, iirc.
20:37<supermop_>cut and peel off if it gets tagged
20:37<Flygon>Not quite the 'silver' you expect from raw metal.
20:37<Flygon>I'm not saying it can't look good... but the current shade of grey just doesn't look quite right.
20:38<Flygon>Especially recalling that Victoria's cloudy as hell 9 months of the year.
20:40<sim-al2>of course consider how it might look when it gets dirty
20:41<sim-al2>I think it might be the same shade as the previous paint scheme
20:41<sim-al2>https://railgallery.wongm.com/albums/vline-new-mk4-livery/F119_3642.jpg
20:41<sim-al2>but you can see how dirt and soot changes the look
20:52-!-Biolunar [Biolunar@dslb-088-078-024-059.088.078.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #openttd
20:52-!-Biolunar is "Biolunar" on #openttd #suckless
21:01<Wolf01>'night
21:01-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
21:20-!-Biolunar [Biolunar@dslb-088-078-024-059.088.078.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:52-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@dslb-188-103-254-155.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:04<ST2>sim-al2, do you see Jinassi here?
22:04<ST2>(just asking ^^)
22:09<ST2>well, guess he's not ^^
22:39-!-tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
22:39-!-tokai|noir is "Christian Rosentreter" on #openttd
22:39-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ
22:46-!-tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:02-!-Laedek [~quassel@24-113-145-42.wavecable.com] has quit [Quit: Laedek]
23:03-!-Laedek [~quassel@24-113-145-42.wavecable.com] has joined #openttd
23:03-!-Laedek is "Laedek" on #openttd
23:38-!-glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye]
23:45<Flygon>I forgot - Is there a parameter for ensuring industries stay within x amount of tiles within a town?
23:49<Flygon>It's kinda annoying playing a scenario and you have all these industries in the middle of nowhere. <_>
---Logclosed Sun Oct 15 00:00:40 2017