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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-10-18

---Logopened Wed Oct 18 00:00:44 2017
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02:03<andythenorth>o/
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02:58<V453000>andythenorth I think I have an ultimate plan for 32bpp wagons
02:58<V453000>wagons come in multiple generations, that bit is obvious
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02:58<V453000>and they share loading stages, say, 0-10 ... point is, using sprite layering I can use bottom-wagon-part, cargo, top-wagon-part
02:59<V453000>so for example 1st generation has loading stages 1-3, second 1-5, third 1-6, last 1-10
02:59<V453000>and the bottom-wagon-part and top-wagon-part changes with each generation, just respects the dimensions of the other wagons
02:59<V453000>since all are 8/8, should work
02:59<andythenorth>ok
02:59<andythenorth>so wtf do they look like?
03:00<andythenorth>and how many types?
03:00<andythenorth>just one ultimate type?
03:00<andythenorth>or original base set types?
03:00<andythenorth>fricking wagons
03:00<V453000>well it's going to be 1 wagon id, but the graphics will randomize
03:00<andythenorth>so 1 ultimate
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03:00<V453000>and cargo/wagon colours will adjust by colour masks
03:00<andythenorth>wagons are the most neglected thing in newgrf
03:00<V453000>so it's just 1 sprite per variation, and 1 cargo sprite per variation
03:00<andythenorth>literally nobody has done better than base set yet
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03:01<V453000>some nuts wagons are pretty good, but not consistent enough
03:01<V453000>with this I am mainly trying to get the most variety with the least amount of sprites and the least amount of work :P
03:04<V453000>the biggest issue will be see-through tankers :)
03:04<V453000>but I think it wil work, will just need careful photoshitting ... but if it's "just a few" sprites instead of thousands, it's already much more convenient to work with
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03:27*andythenorth bbl
03:27<andythenorth>such
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04:07<@planetmaker>moin
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04:24<V453000>yo
04:24<V453000>:)
04:24<crem>Yes, yo.
04:30<andythenorth>hmm
04:30<andythenorth>van-driving time
04:30<andythenorth>biab
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05:02<Wolf01>o/
05:03<crem>\o
05:05<crem>When people Western European countries have fever, where do they usually measure a body temperature? In exUSSR countries everyone measures under an arm, but it seems that in other countries the most popular is to measure in mouth.
05:07<Wolf01>Ear, forehead, or armpit, depends on which instrument you have here
05:07<milda>im swedish, and we measure mouth first, arm later.
05:07<milda>butt third.
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09:26<supermop_>mouth first in US
09:26<supermop_>most households have oral thermometer. growing up we also had a forehead thermometer so we used that
09:34<supermop_>typically don't need to make someone get undressed just to check their fever
09:35<supermop_>also person with thermometer sticking out of their mouth is visual trope / gag for illness
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09:48<crem>I once bought in-ear thermometer in US. Turned out it recalculated temperature to what it would be in mouth!
09:48<crem>That's weird, as I never measured it in mouth.
09:49<supermop_>the ear ones are kind of expensive
09:49<supermop_>usually they are pretty fast though
09:51<supermop_>most lay people here only know roughly healthy temperature for most people by mouth, and then maybe what their personal norm difference from that is
09:51<supermop_>if it is a consumer facing product it is easier to give them a familiar reference
09:51<crem>it somehow broke for me and now shows lower temperature than it should, by ~2 Kelvin.
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10:17<supermop_>hmm i think i figured out why frosch's code doesn't progress beyond the 2nd livery
10:17<V453000>cause it's shit!
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10:22<@Alberth>o/
10:22<supermop_>hi Alberth
10:25<supermop_>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pgsqa6gtn
10:26<supermop_>there is no way for the A to B switches to every point to the B to C switches
10:26<supermop_>*ever
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10:43<Wolf01>Translate please: hochflur / niederflur... the only thing I understood is that's a corridor or a pavement, and visually doesn't change anything :|
10:49<Gustavo6046>How does OpenTTD compute slopes?
10:53<peter1139>Vague question
10:55<supermop_>i think he means for acceleration
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10:59<Gustavo6046>supermop_, no
10:59<Gustavo6046>I mean
10:59<Gustavo6046>how do you represent slope data from a multidimensional array (I call them areas) of integer heights.
10:59<Gustavo6046>or would you
11:00<Gustavo6046>since OpenTTD slopes are all 45°
11:00<@Alberth>they are all 0, +1, or -1 different from their surrounding points
11:01<@Alberth>you may want to look at how a heightmap is transformed
11:01<@Alberth>heightmap iamge, that is
11:01<@Alberth>*image
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11:27<Gustavo6046>Alberth, what I want is to do a sci-fi Java... clone is not the right word... inspired work
11:28<Gustavo6046>But I'm stumped on how the slopes should be generated; in my game, slopes are a quarter of inclination, so 45° = 50m difference = 4 internally.
11:28<Gustavo6046>But they are stored in an array of points; each tile is four points.
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12:16<supermop_>andythenorth: destinations for coffee sounds fine as a consequence of express distribution category to me
12:21<supermop_>tbh i sometimes just make everything have distribution on
12:21<supermop_>works fine
12:25<@Alberth>Gustavo6046: simplest is select random rectangle, and pull all points up or pull all points down by one. I a neighbour point becomes too far away ( < -1 or > 1) drag it up/down too, until all non-dragged neighbours are eitgher in the -1..1 range, or you run out of surface in the game area
12:25<@Alberth>s/I/If/
12:25<Gustavo6046>ok
12:25<Gustavo6046>thank you
12:26<Gustavo6046>but nevermind anyway
12:26<Gustavo6046>I've got a different strategy
12:26<@Alberth>ok
12:26<Gustavo6046>my game will use slopes at any angle, with points at any height
12:27<@Alberth>that would work, if you draw tiles eg in a GPU, but not when you have fixed sprites, like OpenTTD
12:28<@Alberth>with current hardware your approach is very feasible, you see lots of games doing that
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12:49<Wolf01>Quak, o/
12:50<frosch123>moo
12:58<supermop_>frosch123: maybe this works better:
12:58<supermop_>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pgieqrfxg
12:59<frosch123>line 169 probably should say 1985
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13:00<frosch123>it's getting kind of long :p
13:01<frosch123>anyway, does this still compile?
13:02<supermop_>good catch
13:02<frosch123>it seems to use 10 random bits when there are only 8
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13:04<supermop_>haven't compiled it since i changed the 'default' of 'testdown_e4_x' to point to 'maybe_e4_x+1', but before that change it compiled fine
13:05<supermop_>the problem was that nothing in the livery B upgrade switch pointed to the livery c swtiches, so a tram could never upgrade farther than A -> B
13:06<supermop_>but it did work very nicely in going from a to b
13:08<supermop_>going to try compiling now
13:11<frosch123>btw. i was wondering whether you should just upgrade one vehicle per month
13:12<frosch123>you can check the train number via newgrf, and could then select the livery by "date + number*30" or something
13:12<supermop_>ooh
13:12<supermop_>that could be cool
13:13<supermop_>huh
13:13<supermop_>also
13:14<supermop_>date_of_last_service returns a yyyy,mm,dd. is there an easy way to get just the yyy from that?
13:14<supermop_>yyyy
13:14<frosch123>divide by 365
13:14<frosch123>and offset by 2 years of leap days
13:14<frosch123>(date_of_last_service / 365 - 2)
13:15<frosch123>should be good-enough (tm)
13:15<supermop_>because i was thinking of a non-random way, where you just get the year of last service
13:15<frosch123>well, maybe 500 leap days is closer to 1 year
13:16<supermop_>and make livery based on what range the year of last service falls into
13:17<frosch123>you can create a lot of seeminly-random data from variable
13:17<frosch123>like "age in days"
13:18<frosch123>"date + (age_in_days mod 32)*30" and similar
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13:19<frosch123>err, i mean "date + ((date-age_in_days) mod 32)*30"
13:20<frosch123>or even easier, use the random bits to compute a upgrade year
13:20<frosch123>"date + (random_bits mod 32)*30"
13:21<frosch123>hmm, the more i think about it, the random_switch thingie was kind of stupid :p
13:22<supermop_>well it compiled fine
13:23<supermop_>let's see how it works
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13:26<supermop_>actually maybe i will get lunch first
13:28<frosch123>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pxizix4uv <- everything in one switch
13:29<frosch123>almost borign
13:29<supermop_>clapping emoji
13:29<supermop_>not sure if emoji works in irc so just imagine it
13:29<frosch123>emoji only have heads, so does that mean headbanging emoji?
13:29<andythenorth>👏
13:29<supermop_>haha sure
13:30<supermop_>yeah this takes me from like 180 lines to 11
13:30<supermop_>so ill need to find some other thing to make stupidly complex to compensate
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14:02<supermop_>a guy i interviewed with just texted to ask if it would be ok to send me a job offer
14:02<supermop_>why not just email the offer
14:02<frosch123>maybe your boss reads all your mail
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14:05<Gustavo6046>Is having 55M from 1950 to 2150 normal?
14:06<Gustavo6046>I meant from 2030 to 2150
14:08<frosch123>income growth exponentially
14:08<frosch123>no matter how fast you build, you cannot win the "spend everything" battle
14:09<Gustavo6046>True
14:09<frosch123>though actualy... you can enable build-while-paused :)
14:10<supermop_>frosch123: i find that is the only way to run out of money
14:10<frosch123>anyway, various people set all costs to "low". high prices are no challenge in the long run, but only slow down the early game
14:10<frosch123>so, "high prices" = "boring"
14:11<frosch123>which is completely different to new players thinking "high prices" = "challenging" :p
14:11<supermop_>what we need is extortionate train costs
14:12<supermop_>so the manufacturer sets your price based on how much money you have
14:12<supermop_>or a non-stupid inflation
14:12<frosch123>what, an american with communist ideas? :p
14:12<supermop_>ha
14:13<supermop_>frosch123: you must no know many young americans
14:13<supermop_>also; it's purely capitalist on the part of the train manufacturer
14:13<frosch123>my sister-in-law is american
14:15<supermop_>so is mine!
14:15<frosch123>:p
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15:45<supermop_>maybe i should let flatbeds carry scrap
15:45<supermop_>and recolor tram bodies to be rusted out as cargo
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15:45<supermop_>although dumping a whole tram into the arc furnace is a bit silly
15:46<andythenorth>seems reasonable to me
15:46<supermop_>i think this grf is almost a grf
15:46<supermop_>need to add the purchase sprites
15:47<supermop_>maybe adjust some costs and capacities
15:47<supermop_>but seems generally playable
15:59<andythenorth>yay :)
16:00<andythenorth>Horse is…fucked :)
16:00<andythenorth>nvm
16:00<V453000>:D
16:00<andythenorth>every move I make to fix it causes a new problem
16:00<andythenorth>it’s like some horrible puzzle game
16:00*V453000 has procrastinated with OpenRCT2 for the last 2 evenings
16:00<andythenorth>or Rubik’s Kube
16:00<V453000>lost the scenario
16:00<V453000>:0
16:00<V453000>haha
16:01<andythenorth>winning
16:01<V453000>now I'm kind of triggered and want to do it again
16:02<andythenorth>yup
16:04<V453000>but almost finished with brix tracks
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16:06<V453000>last rail touches, fix roads, ship shit
16:06<V453000>I could do endless amount of more stuff but eh
16:06<V453000>clearly losing focus in the last few weeks
16:06<V453000>procrastinating with RCT and thinking about new train set
16:06<andythenorth>sometimes the only solution is to go over the top
16:06<andythenorth>and then stop :P
16:07<V453000>BRIX is kind of stable from my local using and I can always improve it if I really want
16:07<V453000>and the progress from 0.0.1 is undescribable
16:09<andythenorth>such awesome
16:14<supermop_>hmm can remember how to resize a bunch of photos at once as a batch
16:16<V453000>snake language
16:16<V453000>:P
16:16<V453000>doesn't irfan view support it?
16:16<V453000>https://lifehacker.com/345755/batch-resize-images-with-irfanview
16:16<andythenorth>photostrop
16:16<andythenorth>automate / actions palette
16:17<V453000>yeah or that
16:17<V453000>though I never really ventured in that direction I must admit
16:17<V453000>idk why I never did actually
16:17<andythenorth>it’s kind of shit
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16:17<V453000>is it
16:17<andythenorth>it’s so nearly great
16:17<V453000>I mostly heard it's awesomey
16:18<andythenorth>how about after effects?
16:18-!-Alberth [~alberth@00015f9e.user.oftc.net] has left #openttd []
16:18<andythenorth>import the folder as image sequence to a timeline
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16:18<andythenorth>then resize that timeline on another timeline
16:18<andythenorth>then re-export as image sequence
16:18<andythenorth>winner
16:18<andythenorth>AE solves everything
16:18<supermop_>hmm
16:18<supermop_>dont have that on work computer
16:18<V453000>After Effects is about the worst program for scaling pictures
16:19<andythenorth>you mean best
16:19<V453000>you can't choose the algorithm and the one it uses is about the worst I ever saw
16:19<andythenorth>you mistyped :P
16:19<V453000>in fact it's one of the last things I am doing with BRIX
16:19<andythenorth>don’t you set the timeline codec?
16:19<andythenorth>it’s been years since I used it :P
16:19<andythenorth>is the timeline codec-independent?
16:19<V453000>exporting parts befor scaling, scaling in python, and then reimporting
16:19<V453000>I don't think the timeline is codec dependent
16:20*andythenorth used to use it for anamorphic 16:9, where the pixels aren’t square
16:20<andythenorth>and other weird broadcast shit
16:20<V453000>and I don't think there is any way to influence the timeline by some way except purchasing expensive 3rd party downscaling software
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16:20<V453000>that's some weird shit :)
16:20<andythenorth>making pixels work on analogue CRT was special
16:20<V453000>:)
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16:20<andythenorth>have to clamp white, because there’s a max intensity
16:21<V453000>well, yeah ... AE is great in many ways but scaling is just holy shit bad
16:21<andythenorth>and CRT pixels bleed
16:21<andythenorth>also some red flickers
16:21<V453000>if you discover something that breaks my illusion there, please tell me :D
16:21*andythenorth doesn’t even have AE any more
16:21<andythenorth>just Photostrop
16:21<andythenorth>which per-day, costs me more than the mac it’s running on
16:21<andythenorth>best not to think about that
16:22<V453000>:DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
16:22<V453000>really?
16:22<V453000>hm actually yeah
16:22<V453000>well I'm paying the full cloud for 60e
16:23<V453000>which yeah, is same as my pc price in 5 years
16:23<V453000>time to reconsider :D
16:23<V453000>?
16:23<andythenorth>my maths is off, photoshop is £0.66 / day
16:23<andythenorth>the mac is £2 / day
16:23<andythenorth>but if I had creative cloud, £1.63 / day
16:23<andythenorth>blah
16:24<V453000>hm so I pay 60, that makes 720e per year, say 3500 for 5 years
16:24<andythenorth>if I was working freelance, £300 / day billable
16:24<V453000>my computer had cost about 4000e
16:24<V453000>._.
16:24<V453000>fuck
16:24<andythenorth>yeah
16:24<V453000>and I thought the computer was expensive
16:24<andythenorth>computer hardware is cheap
16:24*andythenorth sells SaaS for a reason :P
16:24<V453000>yeah, subsription pricing has it's reasons
16:25<V453000>well, shit can I do, it's an important part of my worlflow :)
16:25<andythenorth>I once had argument about buying computers for new employees
16:25<andythenorth>someone else thought we shouldn’t be spending money on expensive computers
16:26<andythenorth>but did think we needed the staff
16:26<andythenorth>computer: £2 / day
16:26<andythenorth>staff: £200 / day
16:26<andythenorth>such
16:26<V453000>hehe
16:28<andythenorth>Horse problems
16:28<andythenorth>so many
16:28<andythenorth>problem: adding wagons because they’re fun to draw
16:28<andythenorth>no gameplay reason
16:29<V453000>well roads are fixed :> was surprisingly easy
16:29<andythenorth>problem: not adding wagons, because can’t figure out what to draw :P
16:29<andythenorth>winning
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>"In a belgian village all the clocks run wrong, because they temporarily switched the power grid to 51Hz during construction work"
16:32<V453000>:D
16:32<V453000>well maybe don't add them then andythenorth
16:32<V453000>you can always add in future versions
16:32<V453000>it's not like nuts had all the vehicles from 0.0.1
16:32<V453000>probably like half
16:33<V453000>you might even discover you don't need them later
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16:45<andythenorth>I have been deleting them
16:45<andythenorth>possibly winning strategy
16:45<andythenorth>also bed
16:45<andythenorth>bye
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17:41<supermop_>do i need a switch for purchase sprite, or can i just do "purchase: spriteset_x" in graphics section
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>can have a spriteset directly
17:46<supermop_>nice
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18:26<Gustavo6046_>guys
18:26<Wolf01>Ladies
18:26<Gustavo6046_>:P
18:27<Gustavo6046_>Maps could be divided into one or more Nations, where nation territory has laws, borders have limits, and unclaimed territory has far less towns but still industries.
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>sure... make a game script...
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18:32<Gustavo6046_>Game script? Don't these like just do game conditions and stuff?
18:33<Gustavo6046_>ooh Squirrel
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, conditions like what law applies where, and stuff like draw borders by placing fences on tiles?
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19:25<Wolf01>'night
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23:50-!-Mavy [quassel@2a01:4f8:141:22e9:1337::4] has joined #openttd
23:50-!-Mavy is "Mavy" on #openttd
---Logclosed Thu Oct 19 00:00:45 2017