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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-10-20

---Logopened Fri Oct 20 00:00:47 2017
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01:58<andythenorth>such http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8703/horse_tank_6_4.png
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02:54<V453000>andythenorth: I'd say it's good enough for now, although the progression feels weird
02:54<V453000>why black - black - CCstripes - black ?
02:54<V453000>I'd expect black-black-black-CC
02:57<andythenorth>mostly for maximum difference between each generation
02:57<andythenorth>but I had same concern
02:57<andythenorth>more CC => more modern?
02:57<V453000>maybe not just that, but simply the difference
02:57<V453000>you expect the thing to be evolving from one to the other, not from one, through another, and back
02:58<V453000>maybe try to give some of the longer tankers just 2 holes at the top? is detail but eh
02:58<andythenorth>or 4...
02:58<V453000>or 8
02:58<andythenorth>depends how many smaller tankers in gen 6
02:59<andythenorth>smaller ones have 1 or 2 holes
02:59<V453000>:) I can't way to try horse
02:59<andythenorth>you will hate all of itr
02:59<andythenorth>such fuckery http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8698/horsey_tanks_a_lot.png
02:59<andythenorth>integer madness
03:00<V453000>that's a lot of fuckery
03:00<V453000>pretty cool fuckery though
03:00<V453000>my shit is going to be in an 8/8 array always, boring :P
03:00<Arveen2>g'mornig
03:00<andythenorth>I considered just randomising lengths :P
03:00<V453000>XD
03:00<V453000>luckily you can't do that, right
03:01<andythenorth>dunno, think I _probably_ could
03:01<andythenorth>somehow
03:01<V453000>really
03:01<V453000>I Think I tried that at some point
03:01<V453000>but eh
03:01<V453000>maybe not correctly
03:02<andythenorth>some hax
03:02<andythenorth>articulated consists or something
03:02<andythenorth>could even measure train length, to force it to always integer or 0.5 of a tile
03:02<V453000>you can't change amount of articulated units on the fly afaik
03:03<V453000>haha that would be super wtf
03:03<andythenorth>totally bonkers
03:03<V453000>or boners if done well :P
03:05<V453000>I was drawing some boxcars today
03:05<V453000>NUTS has auschwitz against boxcars, but in the next set I want to have those as well
03:05<V453000>variety and stuff
03:05<V453000>I'm just figuring out how to show cargo in them
03:05<V453000>open/closed door and being able to see inside through door during loading sounds like yes
03:06<V453000>while needing to keep in mind x1 zoom, some door are really small
03:11*andythenorth has had similar ideas for box car
03:12<andythenorth>50% alpha :P
03:12<V453000>yeah well honestly there aren't many possibilies
03:12<andythenorth>ban box cars? o_O
03:12<V453000>I'm considering to have wagons see-through and reveal cargo without obstructions during loading, maybe as a parameter
03:12<andythenorth>why would new NUTS need box cars?
03:12<V453000>would be awesome for boxcars and tankers
03:12<V453000>just for variety of wagons, since I have 1 ultimate wagon it makes even more sense to actually make each cargo wagon different
03:13<V453000>because it doesn't inflate purchase menu yet gives variety
03:13<V453000>I'm probably going to be rather lazy and just do the usual bunch but let's see
03:13<andythenorth>https://i.pinimg.com/originals/38/9b/9b/389b9b7413efeb712d649e22bd52b455.jpg
03:13<andythenorth>solved
03:13<V453000>:D well that's kind of halfway nuts
03:14*andythenorth might try recolour box cars to cargo
03:14<andythenorth>like tank cars
03:14<andythenorth>dunno
03:14<V453000>but imagine you have a boxcar and you can see inside when it's loading
03:14<V453000>not realistic but kind of cool, no?
03:15<V453000>like the front walls would be removed and you see the cargo directly
03:15<V453000>with 3d model I just slice a part off, iz rather cheap
03:16<andythenorth>seems fine
03:16<V453000>and since it's just about defining it in the loading spritegroup, I don't even need extra sprites for parameter
03:16<V453000>so easy to turn off
03:16<andythenorth>just reuse flat cars
03:16<andythenorth>paint walls over
03:16<V453000>I'll do some experimenting, it's not exactly easy in Blender either
03:16<V453000>haha
03:16<V453000>nah the back walls are a part of the bottom layer
03:17*V453000 is going for full retard mode of 4 layer wagons
03:17<V453000>OpenTTD might reject my shit by throwing rendering performance issues at me
03:17<V453000>but someone has to test it (tm)
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03:25<V453000>but yeah, plans, dreams
03:28<andythenorth>:D
03:29<V453000>honestly I have been planning this set for so long that I'm not sure if I'm not just a total dreamy faggot who will never do it
03:29<V453000>is about time I start making it reality
03:30<andythenorth>bbls
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03:30<V453000>gg :)
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04:13<Mahjong>um, I have two oil ships on the edge of the map looping round in circles, thoughts?
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04:15<Mahjong>some weirdness happened.. not sure but i've got them out of their little dance for now
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04:25<ShrewdSpirit>Hello. Why the game's pathfinding for vehicles is so dumb? ._. http://up.vbiran.ir/uploads/15195150848785027682_Untitled.png
04:26<ShrewdSpirit>They can't use the other road I made for them .-.
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04:28<V453000>yeah road vehicles are quite specific
04:28<ShrewdSpirit>Dumb*
04:28<ShrewdSpirit>Isn't there a way to avoid causing such messes? :c
04:29<V453000>https://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Road_Vehicle_Networking
04:29<V453000>this is basically the only thing that you can do with RVs
04:29<V453000>... it's why trains are so much superior, RVs are just too shallow
04:29<ShrewdSpirit>Oh, let me see
04:30<V453000>basically you build a dual station and when there is a car in 1 station, cars will try to go to the other one
04:30<V453000>so with full enough road they will pretty much perfectly alternate betwen the two
04:30<V453000>making sure the 1 road doesn't get overcrowded
04:30<ShrewdSpirit>Hmm, right
04:31<V453000>there are settings to set the exact amount of pathfinder penalties you get from it but overall the concept tends to work
04:31<V453000>since it's all just "is value high enough", it can be situational if some detours override the other numbers
04:31<ShrewdSpirit>What if it was a looong road connecting multiple kinds of stations?
04:31<V453000>that would work fine, especially if the long road would be similar lengths
04:32<V453000>the more the length difference between them, the more likely it is to break
04:32<V453000>but you can increase the penalty-from-occupied-station to make it work more reliably
04:33<V453000>is it kind of weird to work with numbers? is it kind of just masturbation over RV pathfinder? Yes to both, but that's really the only thing you can do if you want to work with RVs in large scale
04:34<Mahjong>yep... I have a spot where ships get stuck in a whirpool, very confusing i've tried changing a bunch of things
04:34<V453000>well ships are just another level :D
04:34<V453000>there you don't even have this kind of trick
04:35<ShrewdSpirit>I'm much more comfortable with RVs :D Trans make me sick to manage and they get stuck and stuff like that
04:35<Mahjong>a-ha! I don't know exactly why but one ship depot was causing it to freak out
04:35<Mahjong>like it was trying to get through solid land or something I don't know
04:36<V453000>you can masturbate over train pathfinder 1000 times more than over RV pathfinder :P the shit and hacks you can do there is just off the scale
04:36<ShrewdSpirit>The cool thing about trains is that I can increase their length as much as I want :D So cool
04:36<V453000>yes the modularity is super nice
04:37<V453000>the main thing in trains is the almost unlimited amount of complexity you can discover, where RVs really only have a few tricks
04:38<ShrewdSpirit>Exactly
04:38<ShrewdSpirit>And all those features bring more complexity to them
04:38<ShrewdSpirit>They are hard to manage
04:38<ShrewdSpirit>I only use the block signal bc I don't know the rest xD
04:38<V453000>well yeah the signals can be rather unintuitive but once you learn all the things, shit gets real
04:41<ShrewdSpirit>I've seen rail systems that only gods can make
04:42<V453000>I built https://blog.openttdcoop.org/2013/08/06/dont-try-this-at-home-prozone-game-2013/
04:42<V453000>you can't get much more retarded than that
04:43<Mahjong>V453000, you lunatic
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04:44<ShrewdSpirit_>V453000: Nice
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05:14<V453000>gg
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06:06<Wolf01>Moin
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06:29<Wolf01>Meow
06:34<V453000>anus
06:34<andythenorth>funny wolf noise
06:35<V453000>wold doesn't even know
06:35<V453000>wolf
06:35<andythenorth>V453000 has gone like an alt-right bot :(
06:35<andythenorth>he would have an egg if he was on Twitter
06:35<V453000>alt right?
06:35<Wolf01>"Alt Gr"
06:35<andythenorth>bots that rock up and are rude to liberals
06:35<V453000>ah nice alt arrows switch channels in webirc :D
06:35<andythenorth>and wolves
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06:35<V453000>I'm rude to everyone including myself
06:35<V453000>is fair
06:36<V453000>fuck you all yo
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07:06<Wolf01>Yay, biscuits
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08:15<Samu>hi
08:15<Samu>your forum ads are becoming a bit naughty recently
08:16<Samu>"explore asian women, join now"
08:17<V453000>send pics
08:18<Samu>k
08:20<Samu>https://imgur.com/iX0OkAt
08:20<Samu>so it's japanese, not asian
08:24<Wolf01>Is there a banner there?
08:30<V453000>I meant pics from the detailed exploration
08:30<Wolf01>XDXDXDXD
08:40<peter1139>Samu, the meaning of 'Asian' differs depending on where you are.
08:41<peter1139>Samu, https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/153890/why-dont-americans-refer-to-indians-and-others-from-the-subcontinent-as-asian etc
08:41<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8704/horse_tank_6_5.png
08:41<andythenorth>V453000: all won ^
08:41<andythenorth>enough
08:42<V453000>ultimate victory achieved, go collect your japanese bitches now
08:42<andythenorth>V453000 :(
08:42<V453000>:D
08:43<andythenorth>I have to no let my kids in this channel :|
08:44<V453000>do they join this channel?
08:44<Samu>indians are indians
08:44<Samu>asians are chinese, japanese, koreans, that kind of stuff
08:44<andythenorth>V453000: they read it on my username :P
08:45<V453000>nice so sometimes I'm not talking to you actually
08:45<V453000>sick
08:45<andythenorth>they’re not allowed to ttype
08:45<andythenorth>talking to strangers online is banned
08:45<V453000>doesn't mean they don't do it
08:45<andythenorth>yair
08:46<andythenorth>they get upset really quickly
08:46<Samu>the portuguese empire had some part of india as theirs, i guess that's some influence
08:46<andythenorth>lots of hate in YT comments
08:46<andythenorth>etc
08:46<Samu>as to why we call them indians
08:46<andythenorth>internet is basically over
08:46<Samu>our current prime-minister is indian
08:46<andythenorth>drowned in hate
08:46<Samu>not even portuguese
08:47<V453000>:D hm
08:47<Samu>peter1139:
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08:51<Wolf01>andythenorth: still missing octan livery
08:51<andythenorth>Wolf01: needs Octan cargo :P
08:51<Wolf01>Octan cargo is petrol
08:52<Wolf01>They invented "octan" since they broke the partnership with Shell
08:53<Wolf01>https://www.humblebundle.com/store/sid-meiers-civilization-iii-complete also, for who still doesn't have it, it's free for limited time (steam code)
08:59<Samu>Sid Meier's Civilization® III: Complete is provided via Steam key for Windows. For key redemption, a free Steam account is required.
08:59<Samu>i don't have a steam account, :(
08:59<andythenorth>hmm these Horse tank cars remind me of something
08:59<Wolf01>Make one
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08:59<Samu>not really free is it
08:59<Wolf01>Making the account is free
09:00<Wolf01>Also redeeming that game is free
09:00<andythenorth>https://www.flickr.com/photos/andythenorth/sets/72157624453772117
09:00<andythenorth>https://www.flickr.com/photos/andythenorth/14070189228/in/album-72157644406618728/
09:00<Samu>"free, if u do a ton of shit u don't really want to!"
09:00<Wolf01>Lolwhat?
09:00<Wolf01>Nice tank wagon, andythenorth :D
09:00<andythenorth>Horse clearly
09:01<Wolf01>Totally
09:01<Samu>well, windows 10 was also free!
09:01<andythenorth>dear Apple, please can my keyboard work, thanks, love andythenorh
09:01<andythenorth>see
09:01<andythenorth>fucking ’t’ key doesn’ttt work
09:01<andythenorth>down arrow doesn’t work
09:01<andythenorth>space and left-shift don’t work
09:02<Wolf01>Did you try to not eat over it?
09:02<andythenorth>I never had to change my behaviour like that before
09:02<andythenorth>yes there are things stuck to it that are food
09:02<andythenorth>but all previous macs managed actual real life situations
09:02<Wolf01>Also me, if I look carefully I should be able to make a biscuit from what's inside the keyboard... not edible thought
09:12<peter1139>Samu, 1) Steam isn't like that. 2) Everyone has a Steam account.
09:13<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8705/horse_tank_mayhem.png
09:14<Samu>heh... everyone has windows
09:14<peter1139>Linux lachesis 3.2.0-4-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 3.2.78-1 i686 GNU/Linux
09:14<peter1139>Yeah
09:14<peter1139>Hmm, that's a bit old :p
09:15<peter1139>oldoldstable
09:15<Samu>they just forgot to say I needed a microsoft account tied up to my windows 10 license/install or so
09:16<Wolf01>Wut?
09:16<Samu>if you reinstall your "free" copy of windows 10... you have to log in to your microsoft account
09:17<Samu>else. 1 month later, you get a nice surprise
09:17<Wolf01>I know, I meant this: [15:15:43] [Mahjong:#openttd VERSION]
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09:17<Samu>be sure to reinstall windows 10 using the same system specs
09:18<Samu>so much free it is...
09:18<Mahjong>"Magic thought waves" this is my favourite
09:18<Mahjong>I wish I could connect to IRC through magic thought waves
09:18<Wolf01>Samu: it's not anymore like that, you only need to reactivare it manually if you change hardware
09:20<peter1139>Samu, anyway, don't you use adblockers? :p
09:20<Samu>nop
09:20<peter1139>ublock origin
09:20<peter1139>Oh wait, you are using Edge? LOLOL
09:21<peter1139>What a weirdo.
09:21<Samu>well, it works
09:21<Samu>that's all that matters
09:21<Wolf01>I use edge with ublock origin
09:22<ST2>yup, it worked perfectly fine to get Firefox and Opera xD
09:23<Wolf01>It works fine, at least I can sync passwords and bookmarks with my phone
09:25<Flygon>I'm still not sure how the heck I haven't had to use a Microsoft Account on my Windows 10 copy.
09:25<Flygon>Then again, I've somehow torn through the install enough that it's more a facsimile of 7.
09:25<Flygon>Problem - It still has the bloody ribbon interface for Explorer.
09:25<Flygon>And it's a bloody nightmare.
09:26<Wolf01>You don't need to use a hotmail/live email to create an account, you can use any email now
09:26<Flygon>You've been able to use custom emails for MS accounts since at least 2003.
09:27<Flygon>> I wonder how I managed to do that
09:30<Flygon>(Honestly - It was by complete accident)
09:31<Wolf01>BTW, I like the ribbon, and you can doubleclick to hide it
09:31<Wolf01>Still opens a ribbon when you select a menu item
09:31<Flygon>But can it bring back classic explorer menu? D:
09:32<Wolf01>You mean the vertical one?
09:32<Flygon>Yeah.
09:32<Wolf01>No, that's long dead
09:32<Flygon>Shit.
09:32<Wolf01>Use a different file explorer
09:32<Flygon>Looks like I'm beating dead life out of 7 where possible.
09:33<Flygon>(The 7 drivers supplied for the laptop, erm, didn't work >_>)
09:33<Wolf01>I had less problems to make the tablet work with win 10 than win 8, and it was born with 7
09:34<Wolf01>With win 10 I didn't even had to install the utilities, it downloaded everything on its own
09:34<Flygon>(Soo it's stuck on 10, thanks to the range of Windows-only apps I'm stuck on. - I know about the whole 'Go use Linux and WINE' thing, but... I'm both lazy and confronted with software-driver interaction concerns. :V)
09:34<Flygon>(Emphasis on the lazy)
09:35<Flygon>(So instead I'm so lazy I beat Windows 10 into submission knowing it's futile because a future update's gonna sh... shoot all over my work. :V)
09:36<Flygon>Ehh...
09:36<Flygon>I'm a very particular man, I'll put it that way.
09:37<Flygon>I have zero idea what I'm going to do past 2020.
09:37<Flygon>I seriously don't know. It'll be the date software finally stops actually supporting 7.
09:37<Flygon>Regardless of if it really needs to stop supporting it.
09:38<Flygon>(Never mind people will find ways to cheese their way into the ultra-long term support updates - XP style :V)
09:39<Flygon>Seems those XP updates run out 2019
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09:40<Samu>have you considered inflation: Off by default on future openttds?
09:41<andythenorth>inflation is such crap
09:41<supermop_>seems like someone could write a less dumb inflation
09:42<supermop_>even a meaningless x% across the board
09:42<Wolf01>Why I feel like targeted every time you write "someone"?
09:42<supermop_>just as an option for people who feel like they absolutely need it
09:42<supermop_>Wolf01: do you have a highlight on 'someone'?
09:43<Wolf01>Nope, but my brain highlights that word
09:43<Flygon>(Anyway, g'night!)
09:43<Wolf01>Nn
09:43<__ln__>someone's a bit paranoid (not saying who)
09:43<Wolf01>See, that happened again
09:44<Wolf01>https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6628 <- ROFL "bug"
09:45<supermop_>respond with 'cannot reproduce'
09:45<Wolf01>andythenorth should be more polite than me to reply :P
09:46<supermop_>just to see what happens
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09:50<Wolf01>And we have the first W10:FCU bug!
09:50<Wolf01>I'm waiting to update so I can try to reproduce it
09:51<Wolf01>https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6629 <- isn't a similar behavior of the OS X one?
09:55<Samu>on settings.ini file, how do I make a setting become disabled if the value of another setting is also disabled?
09:56<Wolf01>Non on settings.ini
09:56<Wolf01>*Not
09:56<Wolf01>You need to check it on the UI when you change the values
09:56<Samu>so, on settings_gui.cpp?
09:57<Wolf01>Yes
09:57<Wolf01>Look how other settings do it
09:57<Samu>i don't think there's any other setting that do it
09:59<Samu>Enable extra running costs for trains: On / Off
09:59<Samu>Extra running costs for trains divisor: Auto, 1-255
10:00<peter1139>Enable features that should be provided by NewGRF: No / Off
10:00<Samu>the 2nd setting should have the buttons grayed out if the 1st setting is off
10:00<Wolf01>No / Off / Auto (never)
10:04<andythenorth>peter1139: I already suggested that Samu reimplement original trains in a grf :)
10:04<andythenorth>but samu likes projects :)
10:04<andythenorth>it’s always good having an extensible content framework, but refusing to use it :)
10:05<Wolf01>I still think we should try to strip everything from the core game and reimplement as paid DLC
10:05<Samu>i don't know how to use grfs
10:06<Samu>code*
10:07<Samu>it seems limited
10:07<Samu>controlled
10:07<Wolf01>Multiplayer safe
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10:13<supermop_>Samu: its pretty easy
10:19<supermop_>i should make a double headed industrial tram
10:20<supermop_>although if yu want to be carrying 300t of coal really should build a train
10:20<Samu>can u make a newgrf for me, involving wagons?
10:22<Samu>i was looking for a newgrf with wagons/engines without any running cost specified, kinda like nars. it has some obscure features like reduced running costs
10:23<Samu>different sizes
10:23<Samu>i don't really know what other features can affect running costs
10:23<Samu>but i wanted to explore them
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10:24<Samu>the problem with nars is that... everything has a cost
10:24<Samu>a running cost, that is
10:24<Samu>and there's that misterious shift value which i dunno what it is
10:24<Samu>can't decipher nars entirely
10:27<supermop_>are all the australians gone?
10:27<supermop_>is a stevedore or longshoreman a tradie?
10:27<supermop_>i wonder what they'd call them, dockie? crane-ie?
10:28<supermop_>need a melb-ish name for a harbor tram
10:30<Samu>melbish tram
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10:41<Wolf01>o/
10:41<@Alberth>hi hi
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11:17<supermop_>hmm need a germanish name for an 1860-ish steam dummy
11:18<supermop_>Alberth: any ideas for cute tiny diesel locomotive nickname?
11:18<Gustavo6046>Lumberchap
11:18<Gustavo6046>?
11:18<@Alberth>I was thinking about the steam thingie, something "Dampf"
11:19<@Alberth>(ie steam)
11:19<@Alberth>Bert and Erny perhaps?
11:19<@Alberth>LittleBert and SmallErny
11:22<supermop_>because it is for stret running, i was thinking about Strasse something
11:22<supermop_>but that sounds too much like a regular tram
11:22<@Alberth>what's the "dummy" thing?
11:24<supermop_>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_dummy
11:24<supermop_>tram engine
11:24<supermop_>that is made to look like a tram car
11:25<supermop_>Dampfstraßenbahn
11:25<supermop_>is too literal
11:25<@Alberth>ah, steam machine in disguise
11:25<@Alberth>007dampf
11:26<supermop_>ha
11:28<@Alberth>passengercar007
11:35<supermop_>what is a stevedore/dockworker in german
11:35<supermop_>?
11:37<peter1139>What is it in Egnlish? :p
11:37<Samu>ST2, using server 7 settings and my patch: https://imgur.com/7fRu5Eg
11:37<Samu>trucks vs trains
11:38<Samu>started in 1935, and made the last adjustments in 1939, then let 1940 unchanged
11:39<Samu>trains lost 2 wagons in 1939, trucks lost 2 trucks in 1939
11:40<Samu>2 wagons ,each, so 4 wagons
11:40<Samu>i did it to optimize coal mine output with the vehicles
11:41<Samu>i think i achieved some degree of parity
11:41<supermop_>peter1139: stevedore?
11:41<Samu>i like what i see
11:42<Samu>however... it's still cheaper to construct a very long train than have a decent truck going very far
11:43<Samu>decent truck route*
11:43<peter1139>supermop_, never heard the term before
11:44<supermop_>guy who works at a dock and puts stuff on a boat
11:44<peter1139>Hmm, phonetic corruption of estivador
11:44<supermop_>apparently in the UK it is only the foreman or master
11:45<supermop_>the regular guys are dockers?
11:45<supermop_>in oz it is 'wharfie' which is cute enough to be a tram name
11:46<Samu>your server 7 is still all about making a long route with a very big train, i ought to test how much my running costs cannibalize the profits
11:46<@Alberth>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevedore apparently, never heard of the term before
11:48<@Alberth>Samu: wouldn't it be easier to add running costs to the wagons?
11:49<supermop_>ok newly compiled now to test again
11:50<supermop_>hopefully fixed the remaining sprite issues
11:50<Samu>how exactly?
11:52<Samu>a fixed value?
11:52<Samu>i wanted to penalize long trains, but not much on short trains
11:54<Samu>i tried using fixed values for wagons and it didn't feel right
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11:55<Samu>it was either too much for short trains, or too little for long trains, and trying to come up with a value that could suit both wasn't cutting it. I like the exponential cost increase approach more
11:56<@Alberth>ah, right, I read the first post to understand the problem you're solving, and may have missed that
11:56<Wolf01>I think you should also change airplanes, a lot of little airplanes for 2-20 people should be better than one airbus a380 or boeing 747
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11:56<Samu>i'm not sure how to go about aircraft yet
11:57<Samu>the biggest impact on their profits was with the profit patch that I did which ended penalizing horizontal/vertical routings
11:57<@Alberth>but an a380 is ideal, you can have a living room for each passenger!
11:58<Samu>so, every vehicle was impacted
11:58<Samu>aircraft impact was more pronounced however
11:58<Wolf01>But a lot of pax with only one airplane mean a lot of earnings
11:59<@Alberth>hmm, maybe make the passengers less patient in waiting for the ride?
12:00<@Alberth>would be nice if they could leave the aircraft while it's loading :p
12:01<Samu>i've also done something else, can't remember, let me find brb
12:02<Samu>ah
12:02<Samu>increased aircraft breakdown rate based on travelled tiles v3 r27795
12:02<Samu>so, after travelling x tiles, the aircraft will breakdown more quickly
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12:03<@Alberth>easily defeated with "disable breakdowns" that most players use :)
12:04<Samu>:/
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12:06<Wolf01>Running cost depends on travel lenght
12:07<@Alberth>for deep-space probes, sure, but regular buses/trains?
12:07<Wolf01>Multiplied by loaded pax, divided by livery colour
12:08<@Alberth>ha, make ugly colors more cheap :p
12:08<Wolf01>Also you should know how many engines there are and base the running cost for each engine
12:10<Samu>i've always thought of breakdowns being necessary for aircraft
12:10<Samu>there are some models that appear to have better reliability than others
12:10<Samu>as a differentiator
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12:11<Samu>english*
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12:13<Samu>a model with big capacity but low reliability vs a model with lower capacity but with high reliability
12:13<andythenorth>reliability is randomised per game afaik
12:13<Samu>with breakdowns disabled... the big capacity model always wins
12:14<supermop_>andythenorth: apt thing made me laugh
12:14<andythenorth>I need 3 more names :P
12:14<supermop_>also the 70s ish regular passenger car
12:15<supermop_>has 2cc stripe like a mk3 at top in /
12:15<supermop_>but not in _
12:15<andythenorth>only the – views are drawn at all :)
12:15<andythenorth>the rest is nonsense
12:15<supermop_>i see
12:15<andythenorth>there is a high deletion rate
12:15<andythenorth>so no point drawing the missing angles until set is designed
12:15<supermop_>i could have used a little bear too
12:16<andythenorth>shoebox doesn’t fit?
12:16<andythenorth>same power, faster
12:16<supermop_>seemed like overkill
12:16<andythenorth>what would have made it just kill?
12:17<Gustavo6046>My favorite OST is Modern Motion.
12:19<supermop_>andythenorth: looking tiny and weak
12:19<supermop_>looks wrong to have what looks like a mainline loco pulling 2-3 cars
12:19<andythenorth>I could split ‘tiny freight’ and ‘tiny pax'
12:20<andythenorth>and even go to 4/8
12:20<andythenorth>dunno
12:20<supermop_>half a chinook
12:20<supermop_>its all fin tho
12:20<supermop_>i wouldn't worry about that part
12:21<andythenorth>there’s a 4/8 sprite test here http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/entry/src/graphics/pony/shoebox_0.png
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14:00<Samu>should i make a patch pack? seems to be the rule
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14:07<andythenorth>hola
14:07<frosch123>annulated tank cars are win :)
14:08<andythenorth>wondering if all wagons should use that style :P
14:08<andythenorth>but then….all look same
14:22<andythenorth>stripes for flat cars? o_O http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8683/horse_flat_3.png
14:23<Samu>@calc 2489885/2204711
14:23<@DorpsGek>Samu: 1.12934756528
14:24<Samu>a ~13% nerf
14:24<Samu>in train profits
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14:25<frosch123>http://www.on-rail.com/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_Res_072-1_OK_3eabe237ca.jpg <- does that count as striped?
14:26<frosch123>http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-3/p1400374485-3.jpg <- what is transported with that?
14:27<supermop_>rolls of steel sheet
14:27<supermop_>the blue one is nice looking frosch123
14:27<Samu>@calc (88034-10417) / (88034-3443)
14:27<@DorpsGek>Samu: 0.917556241208
14:27<Samu>meh, the other way
14:28<Samu>calc (88034-3443) / (88034-10417)
14:28<Samu>@calc (88034-3443) / (88034-10417)
14:28<@DorpsGek>Samu: 1.08985145007
14:28<andythenorth>blue one is stake wagon
14:28*andythenorth has that problem to solve already :)
14:30<andythenorth>could do deck greeble https://photos.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/B-tops-codes/BAA-bogie-steel-flats/i-V6CbTLf/0/84783486/S/BAA_900014_Newport_210807a-S.jpg
14:30<andythenorth>I wanted a consistent deck appearance, but then all look same so eh
14:30<Samu> a ~9% nerf in "income - running cost" is equivalent to a ~13% in company value
14:30<Samu>only tested 1 train though
14:30<Samu>over the course of 40 years
14:31<andythenorth>Samu: you are starving yourself by not learning NML :P
14:31<andythenorth>newgrf has many many ways to adjust these parameters
14:32<andythenorth>at least 3 styles of ‘flat’ wagon here https://photos.smugmug.com/Wagons/B-TOPSCode/BBA/i-rGKwwxt/0/e05f9f42/L/BBA_910001_a_TeesYard_04102007-L.jpg
14:33<andythenorth>interesting load https://pgmodels.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/img_4151.jpg
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14:45<supermop_>andythenorth: always go for more greeb
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15:13<supermop_>i use stacks to randomly stick greeble on roofs of trams
15:15<Gustavo6046>Actually no, I'm not kidding.
15:15<Gustavo6046>Thinking I were was really what I wanted to induct.
15:15<Gustavo6046>Seems I did it.
15:15<Gustavo6046>Err~, wrong channel...
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15:50<Samu>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/GRFActionsDetailed this is hell
15:51<andythenorth>it’s just nfo
15:51<peter1139>Mmm NFO
15:52<Samu>little-endian byte order... i call it, hell-order
15:52<Samu>chaos
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16:01<Samu>38 00 in little-endian byte order
16:02<Samu>means 0038, 38, is this hexadecimal?
16:02<Samu>38 in hex, 56 in decimal?
16:03<supermop_>don't remember. i purged all nfo and hex from my brain
16:04<Gustavo6046>38 in hex is the same as 3 * 16 + 8 in decimal
16:04<Gustavo6046>so 48 + 8
16:04<Gustavo6046> = 56
16:05<Gustavo6046>if 38 were decimal it'd be 3 * 10 + 8 in decimal
16:05<Gustavo6046>just like if*
16:06<Samu>so i got the speed of this engine, wiki says: Speed in mph*1.6 (see below)
16:06<Samu>56 in decimal, and it's 56 km/h in the game
16:06<Samu>why complicate!
16:06<supermop_>ask chris sawyer
16:06<Samu>why not just say speed in km/h
16:07<supermop_>british man thinks of british trains as going in mph
16:09<Samu>@calc 56/1.6
16:09<@DorpsGek>Samu: 35
16:09<Samu>:(
16:10<Samu>@calc 35*1.6
16:10<@DorpsGek>Samu: 56
16:10<Samu>well... technically correct, just complicated for no reason at all
16:12<andythenorth>there will be a reason
16:13<andythenorth>@calc 128*1.6
16:13<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 204.8
16:13<andythenorth>@calc 255*1.6
16:13<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 408
16:13<andythenorth>might be that
16:13<andythenorth>Lev4 chimera is 400mph
16:14*andythenorth might be barking up wrong tree though
16:29<supermop_>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=76402&p=1193264#p1193264
16:44<supermop_>i am sure there is a lot wrong that i can't see from spending so much time looking at,
16:44<supermop_>if anyone wants to look for messed up sprites, or has suggestions for running costs/capacities etc
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16:44<supermop_>happy to hear feedback
16:44<andythenorth>:)
16:46<supermop_>andythenorth: i think the thing that makes me feel weird about using the shoebox for branchline freight is the panto
16:47<andythenorth>what if it was lowered on diesel?
16:47<supermop_>feels somehow wrong to use bimode loco on line that is only ever un-wired
16:47<supermop_>you know what i mean
16:47<supermop_>thats why it feels overkill or gratuitous
16:48<supermop_>bimode seems special, and feels weird to use something special
16:48<supermop_>for mundane turns
16:49<supermop_>why in horse 1 i was shy about replacing gridiron with cyclops - felt too fancy for freight
16:50<andythenorth>maybe needs a small freight engine
16:50<andythenorth>dunno
16:50<supermop_>"in which supermop talks to his therapist at length about vehicle selection in OpenTTD"
16:51<andythenorth>covered hoppers now much less good thank tank cars :P http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8706/horse_hopper_vs_tank.png
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16:51<andythenorth>roof hatches are horrible
16:52<supermop_>stand-alone little bear add on grf
16:52<andythenorth>add horse 1
16:52<andythenorth>different grfids
16:53<supermop_>haha
16:53<supermop_>chinook race
16:54<supermop_>shoebox is good captures spirit of the southern bimodes
16:54<supermop_>gestaltwise
16:54<supermop_>why should i buy stake car over flat car?
16:55<supermop_>other than the cool looking stakes
16:57<supermop_>will the flats get stakes when hauling logs?
16:58<andythenorth>nah
16:59<andythenorth>probably not anyway
16:59<supermop_>i put 2 flats on the back of the rake just to mix it up
16:59<andythenorth>stake car = original steel car
16:59<andythenorth>oops, no original wood car
16:59<frosch123>andythenorth: make the early hoppers not covered by metal, but rather tarpaulins
16:59<andythenorth>maybe
16:59<andythenorth>I could just draw them ‘not rubbish’ too :)
16:59<frosch123>possbily also more similar to open wagons
17:00<supermop_>but the 5t dry tare weight savings vs 14t capacity difference doesn't make stake attractive
17:00<andythenorth>supermop_: sounds like a bug, all capacities should be levelled :)
17:00<supermop_>andythenorth: what frosch123 said ^ more tarps
17:00<supermop_>120km medium stake is 40t, flat car is 54
17:01<supermop_>flat is slightly longer
17:01<supermop_>but not 35% longer
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17:01<supermop_>maybe it is 35% didn't count px
17:01<andythenorth>seems like a bug
17:02<supermop_>i still bought mostly stake cars bc looks better with the logs
17:10<Samu>3>..\src\window.cpp(1685): warning C4146: unary minus operator applied to unsigned type, result still unsigned
17:13<Samu>int offset_x = rtl ? -NWidgetLeaf::closebox_dimension.width : NWidgetLeaf::closebox_dimension.width;
17:13<Samu>that's the line
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17:25<supermop_>andythenorth: https://imgur.com/a/8iBl6 there's 4 stake cars followed by 2 flats in /
17:25<andythenorth>$someone should draw those other views :)
17:31<V453000>andythenorth: tanks winning
17:32<andythenorth>scrap other types
17:32<andythenorth>liquid cargos only
17:32<andythenorth>new FIRS
17:32<andythenorth>water, milk, beer, wine, cola, petrol, chemicals, sulphur, kaolin, oil, edible oil, rubber
17:33<V453000>:D
17:33<frosch123>banana juice
17:34<andythenorth>blood
17:34<frosch123>but you will hit the industry input cargo type limit for cocktails
17:34<andythenorth>fair
17:34<frosch123>though a shaker-industry could we animated
17:37<andythenorth>tomorrow, flat cars :P
17:37<andythenorth>"something must be done”
17:38<frosch123>multi-level flat cars? :p
17:38<andythenorth>sounds like a car transporter :P
17:38<andythenorth>flat cars with vertical stripes? :P
17:39<frosch123>stripes may break the flat-ness impression
17:40<andythenorth>what if I scrapped flatbeds?
17:40<andythenorth>keep the stake cars?
17:40<Gustavo6046>My pathfinder takes 8 mins for a single source outlet... most cities have like 20 of these! :/
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17:41<Gustavo6046>So yeah, 2 + 2/3 hours...
18:03<andythenorth>bed
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18:06<Gustavo6046>ok ._.
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22:52<supermop>gotta say, my fake articulated z class in fake ptv livery is pretty sharp
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23:52<Eddi|zuHause>you're so fake...
23:53<supermop>late (or early) in germany
23:54<Eddi|zuHause>somewhat
23:55<Eddi|zuHause>my work cycle and my sleep cycle don't seem to align
---Logclosed Sat Oct 21 00:00:48 2017