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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-10-22

---Logopened Sun Oct 22 00:00:50 2017
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02:30<andythenorth>o/
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04:06<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: that was not in original AoE II
04:07<Flygon>Yeah. I remember... heheheheheheheh.
04:07<Flygon>I didn't have the expansion for so many years.
04:07<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: the problem here is that after fund new buildings, the people will demand the same thing for exclusive rights
04:17<Flygon>True.
04:17<Flygon>Urf...
04:17<Flygon>Very. Very true.
04:17<Flygon>I understand the issue. :(
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06:26<@Alberth>o/
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07:05<V453000>make BRIX Y/N ?
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07:53<andythenorth>o/
07:55<V453000>yo
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08:49<Samu>@logs
08:49<@DorpsGek>Samu: https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd
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09:06<V453000>I'm going to try to not use After Effects in my next project. :D
09:06<V453000>shit can get rather annoying
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09:09<V453000>so
09:09<V453000>question is
09:09<V453000>blue water Y/N?
09:09<V453000>black water Y/N ?
09:10<andythenorth>what would I do?
09:11<V453000>probably ponder it for a month and then do something revolutionary
09:11<andythenorth>more like, try all the options
09:11<andythenorth>make 10, delete 9
09:12<andythenorth>I would do blue, because we know water is blue
09:12<andythenorth>even though it rarely is
09:12<andythenorth>kids draw water from taps as blue
09:13<V453000>will test regardless
09:13<V453000>let's see what comes out
09:13<V453000>am almost finished with all the stuff
09:13<V453000>:)
09:21<Samu>guys, regarding water color in the mini-map, sometimes I wish it wasn't blue
09:21<Samu>because there's dark blue companies and it's hard to tell them apart
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09:25<andythenorth>suggest alternatives? o_O
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10:49<andythenorth>such Alberths
10:49<@Alberth>hi hi
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10:58<Samu>how do i turn off autorenew for all companies, without having to change this one by one per company?
11:03<Samu>diesel engines are too cheap :( they need a weakness
11:06<Samu>weight multiplier, should suffice
11:09<@Alberth>there is no global autorenew control, afaik
11:13<V453000>andythenorth: just using a different index would work :)
11:16<Samu>floss 47 is better than sh 30 and sh 40, :(
11:16<Samu>given £150k loan :(
11:17<Samu>with weight multiplier x3, floss 47 goes behind sh 40
11:17<Samu>still... ahead of sh 30, i don't quite like it, but oh well
11:19<andythenorth>what is bothering you about it?
11:19<V453000>sh30 is stronger
11:19<Samu>electric rail cost is making sh 30 route shorter than floss 47 route
11:19<V453000>andythenorth: probably money wise
11:20<Samu>floss 47, even though a weaker machine, still profits more
11:20*andythenorth suspects that if SH 30 was better than Floss 47
11:20<andythenorth>we’d be having same conversation, with names swapped
11:20<V453000>profit really isn't the whole story of the game
11:21<andythenorth>Samu: what variables do you have? Which acceleration, what slopes are you testing on, what curves are in your route, what’s your signal length? How contended are the routes?
11:21<V453000>if you have many trains on your network, SH30 will make them accelerate faster and thus make more profit in total because your network has more capacity
11:21<Samu>im using a big straight line
11:21<andythenorth>ugh
11:21<V453000>yeah which is inferior to networking
11:22<Samu>so, best case scenario, single line
11:22<andythenorth>cargo support is *expenseive*
11:22<andythenorth>compile time is totally slammed by every cargo
11:22<andythenorth>especially because I run them all through random switches to offer multiple versions per label
11:22<Samu>realistic acceleration, no slopes, i use breakdowns
11:23<V453000>how long do you compile?
11:23<andythenorth>it’s about 1 minute
11:23<V453000>......................
11:23<V453000>YETI compiles for hours
11:24<andythenorth>sad times
11:24<andythenorth>I make way too many mistakes for that :P
11:27<V453000>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8709/trees-toyland-03.png
11:27<V453000>iz concept
11:27<V453000>toyland trees
11:28<V453000>+ some colours and a bit more variety
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11:31<Samu>i'm also using a special openttd which makes industry production to never change
11:32<Samu>always a 120/135 coal production
11:32<@Alberth>meccano trains, V ?
11:33<andythenorth>metal world
11:34<Samu>sh 125 is a really neat engine, it beats T.I.M. under a £150k loan, but i suppose that's okay, i should try bigger loans
11:35<supermop>lego climate, mecano climate, brio climate
11:35<andythenorth>isn’t SH 125 ultimate?
11:35<Samu>oh, i need to test the 1975/1985 trucks, see how they fare against the trains of that time
11:35<andythenorth>especially with coal :P
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11:49<Eddi|zuHause>SH215 was terrible
11:49<Eddi|zuHause>*125
11:50<Eddi|zuHause>it you lose 1 wagon, and you have this mail capacity which destroys all your full load orders
11:54<_dp_>sh125 is the best starting loco, beats everything else including mono and maglev
11:54<_dp_>that mail thing is a bit stupid though indeed
11:56<_dp_>and in a long run it looses to faster vehicles ofc
11:56<@Alberth>all engines but the fastest one do :)
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11:57<Gustavo6046>My pathfinder is mostly working :D
11:57<_dp_>pathfinder o_O
11:57<_dp_>i certainly missed something here xD
11:57<Gustavo6046>https://i.imgur.com/o57djpb.png
11:57<Eddi|zuHause>_dp_: SH125 never was available at "starting" in any games i played :p
11:58<_dp_>Gustavo6046, is this for AI?
11:58<Gustavo6046>yes
11:59<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, you certainly didn't play much on citymania :p
11:59<_dp_>for earlier eges it's pretty much the same stuff with fastest being the best
12:07<Gustavo6046>For some reason this always fails: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/psg80lhdx
12:13<Gustavo6046>...
12:13<Gustavo6046>okey
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12:14<Gustavo6046>oh
12:14<Gustavo6046>drive-thru stations needs different functions
12:14<Gustavo6046>lol
12:15<andythenorth>bah
12:15<andythenorth>compile takes 50% less time if I drop cargo support
12:16<andythenorth>try and make it faster?
12:17<andythenorth>or add a compile flag to drop cargos optionally when developing?
12:20<Gustavo6046>not yet ._.
12:20<Gustavo6046>what did I do wrong ;_;
12:23<V453000>winnning metalTree texture https://i.pinimg.com/236x/fa/b4/7a/fab47a01018242df7e1e2adfa71ea22d--tasting-room-furniture-stores.jpg
12:23<V453000>realism claims iz copper
12:23<V453000>brix tree = brown trunky part at the bottom, top is oxidized
12:23<V453000>GG
12:23<V453000>sense makes
12:30<andythenorth>make compile faster then :(
12:35<V453000>._.
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12:43<Samu>intresting... dual track in 1985 with £150k only makes chaney jubilee shine
12:44<Samu>i really got to raise loan to £200k
12:44<Samu>time to re-test everything :( boring
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12:57<andythenorth>hmm
12:57<andythenorth>I’ve never used recolour sprites
12:58<andythenorth>is a 1CC<->2CC swap easy?
13:00<supermop>let me know what you find because i could use tha
13:00<andythenorth>would cut about 45% of compile
13:01<andythenorth>encoding sprites appears to be slow
13:01<supermop>would save me a bunch of pngs
13:05<andythenorth>hth does it work?
13:06<andythenorth>can I just remap 1CC to 2CC?
13:06<andythenorth>or do I have to remap for all possible 2CC colour values?
13:06<supermop>idk the specs page wasnt that clear to me
13:06<supermop>i think some remaps are already built in for cc?
13:07<andythenorth>NFI :)
13:07<andythenorth>I’d probably have to read nml source
13:07<andythenorth>how much work will I do to save 20s per compile?
13:14<@Alberth>more than 20s :p
13:16<frosch123>andythenorth: remapping 2cc is dead easy
13:17<andythenorth>I should probably do that then
13:17<andythenorth>I need to swap 2cc and 1cc
13:17<frosch123>the colormap callback just returns a pair of colors to use, which can use any variables, including the actual ccs, or using random values or fixed values, ...
13:18*andythenorth needs to try it
13:18<frosch123>colour_mapping : return base_sprite_2cc + 16 * company_color1 + company_color2; <- swaps the cc
13:19<frosch123>s/color/colour/
13:20<andythenorth>looks neat
13:21<supermop>older tram pulling a tram trailer
13:21<supermop>should they both have same livery style?
13:21<supermop>or use SELF in switch because maybe they hook an old tram up to a new trailer?
13:22<andythenorth>ok so I just swap current random switches to 2CC realsprites
13:22<andythenorth>and replace them with the recolour cb
13:23<supermop>show me how to do
13:24<supermop>I was wondering why sprites for this one tram are iffy, then I realized that I never finished writing the switches
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13:36<andythenorth>my code is growing “ridiculous micro-optimisation” comments :P
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13:49<Gustavo6046>guys
13:49<Gustavo6046>Any possible conditions for AIRoad::BuildDriveThroughRoadStation to return ERR_UNKNOWN?
13:50<Gustavo6046>oh wait
13:50<Gustavo6046>nvm
13:55<supermop>hmm why does my first parcel tram not show up
13:58<andythenorth>reload_newgrfs?
14:00<supermop>nope
14:00<supermop>fresh game
14:03<supermop>oops: apparently diesel box trucks cannot refit to mail, but trolley box trucks can
14:03<supermop>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pnpzk8bsh
14:04<supermop>nothing in there seems different than following tram to me, which does show up
14:08<supermop>though aparrently i am not using my capacity switch
14:08<frosch123>you are not setting climate
14:08<supermop>gah shit
14:09<supermop>must have pasted over that line when pasting in the cargo clasees
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14:09<supermop>thanks
14:11<andythenorth>supermop: you need templating :D
14:13<supermop>sigh
14:16<andythenorth>frosch123: company_color1 is unrecognised identifier
14:16*andythenorth trying to figure out which constant it should be from docs
14:16<frosch123>s/o/ou/
14:17<frosch123>uk english for some reason
14:17<andythenorth>oh yeah
14:17<andythenorth>it’s like reverse-css :P
14:17<andythenorth>normally I have that problem inverted
14:17<andythenorth>ok that’s a winner
14:18<andythenorth>just need to randomise it
14:19<V453000>I used to quite consistently use uk english
14:19<V453000>now it's a fucking mess
14:19<V453000>every place uses color or colour differently
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>there should be one standard to unify all the standards
14:22<andythenorth>you could start the commitee
14:22<andythenorth>first we’d need to agree what language the commitee should keep notes
14:22<andythenorth>in
14:23<frosch123>i suggest to use "colur", so there is no loser
14:23<V453000>clr
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>clrscr
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>oh man that was a long time ago
14:25<andythenorth>clr(rnd(12))
14:25<andythenorth>when vowels were scarce
14:25<frosch123>doesn't old hebrew skip all vowels?
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>they got that from the phoenecians
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>who started all this alphabet business
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>it's the greeks who screwed that up
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>because their language practically only consisted of vowels
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>skipping vowels is more like the default state of writing
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>from sumerian cuneiform and egyptian hieroglyphs to modern arabic
14:29<andythenorth>Horse compile is now ridiculously faster :P
14:30<andythenorth>thanks frosch123
14:32<frosch123>just don't add 12 more generations :)
14:32<andythenorth>I have to add more rosters :P
14:32<andythenorth>or split them to separate grfs
14:33<andythenorth>seriously considering reusing wagons across all, and doing a lot of cb36 :P
14:33<frosch123>rosters sound like they would only alter engines, not wagons
14:33<andythenorth>for some cases yes
14:33<andythenorth>sprites are no longer realistic UK wagons
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14:42<Samu>i got some interesting results with a 200k loan, starting with 1985 vehicles
14:42<Samu>year 1985*
15:06<andythenorth>supermop: ok CC swap sorted :)
15:07<andythenorth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p0tbgvfds/tmbelg/raw
15:07<andythenorth>the ${} is templating language, you’d have to swap that
15:08<andythenorth>this would work better for you https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pfssuwhwo/fkr40e/raw
15:09<andythenorth>it uses FORWARD_SELF(0) so that units in articulated consists all have the same recolour
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15:36<V453000>2 more photoshop tasks
15:36<V453000>and fuck universe
15:36*andythenorth optimising
15:38<andythenorth>compile was > 60 seconds
15:38<andythenorth>now 25-40s
15:38<V453000>:)
15:38<V453000>I wouldn't care about that :D
15:42<V453000>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8710/water.png
15:43<V453000>I guess I am defeated on the 'make water blue' front
15:43<andythenorth>dark blue is classy eh
15:43<V453000>I think it's fitting, it's not like you can have any vehicles on water anyway
15:43<andythenorth>you will have to redraw wetrail
15:44<V453000>so don't need to highlight water
15:44<V453000>nah
15:44<V453000>:P
15:44<V453000>wetrail is brighter cause it has vehicles
15:44<V453000>gg lawyered
15:44<andythenorth>what colour shores will you do?
15:44<V453000>currently planning no shores
15:44<andythenorth>outrageous
15:44<V453000>should shores? :0
15:44<andythenorth>should do what needs done now
15:44<andythenorth>other things later
15:44<andythenorth>or dead
15:45<V453000>omg such sense
15:45<V453000>I obey
15:45<andythenorth>standard
15:45<andythenorth>how do I stop make printing the commands?
15:45<V453000>you caught me red handed starting to think about what to do
15:45<andythenorth>but not the output from the commands?
15:45<V453000>idk I don't use make :P
15:45<andythenorth>@ isn’t doing what I want :P
15:46<frosch123>make -s
15:46<frosch123>or ".SILENT:" in the Makefile
15:49<andythenorth>maybe I was using @ wrong
15:58<andythenorth>frosch123: seems that number of spritesheets kills nml performance much more than number of realsprites or switches
15:59*andythenorth has no science, just a lot of timed runs
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16:53<andythenorth>slopey things are horrible to draw :P
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16:53<andythenorth>also
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---Logclosed Mon Oct 23 00:00:51 2017