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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-10-24

---Logopened Tue Oct 24 00:00:02 2017
---Daychanged Tue Oct 24 2017
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04:06<V453000>_dp_: it's a collage of screenshots :P I was considering doing it properly and make a collage of sprites to create a perfect "screenshot" but eh
04:23<__ln__>have some cats https://imgur.com/gallery/I1FTl
04:26<V453000>solid
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04:32<Samu>hi
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04:40<Wolf01>Moin
04:44<V453000>yo
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05:23<_dp_>o/
05:24<crem>\o
05:24<_dp_>V453000, yeah, I noticed already
05:24<_dp_>V453000, do it properly and make it available in game :p
05:24<V453000>no I mean I would do it properly in photoshop :P
05:25<_dp_>I don't play photoshop :/
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05:42<Wolf01>https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/av79DAZ_460sv.mp4 it was a slug for the entire time O_O
05:43<__ln__>photoshopped®
05:44<V453000>._.
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06:40<Wolf01>https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/anjGdVn_700b.jpg found V's home :P :D:D:D:D
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07:18<V453000>SICK
07:18<V453000>moving in now
07:31<Wolf01>Mmmh, Genoa aquarium asking for a name for the newborn seal... Slippy McSealface?
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08:43<Samu>hi
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09:36<debdog>is there a way to change the year for when the rating is happening? 2050 I think it is by default.
09:36<debdog>on a local game, not server
09:37<debdog>or is it hardcode and I'd neet to recompile?
09:38<debdog>version 1.7.0
09:39<supermop_>debdog: no
09:39<debdog>ok
09:39<crem>2050 is a pretty balanced year anyway!
09:40<supermop_>of course it's a little weird if you start in 2040
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09:40<crem>I think I never reached 2050. (always started at 1930 or 1950)
09:41<supermop_>i guess someone could patch it to be just 100 years from game start or some configurable amount, but the rating, like most legacy artifacts is kind of neglected these days
09:41<crem>too impatient.
09:41<supermop_>because it only kind of makes sense for 256x256, 1950 start, original vehicles,
09:41<supermop_>just like inflation
09:42<V453000>but that's the only correct way to play the game supermop_ , everything else is crime
09:42<V453000>using NewGRFs is heresy
09:42<crem>Also noone should play in resolution higher than 640x480.
09:42<supermop_>criteria like 'have 80 stations' is sort of meaningless on a 2048x2048 map
09:43<V453000>hehe
09:43<debdog>just trying to adopt to my prefered mode of playing OTTD
09:43<supermop_>V453000: ive been meaning to try bricks but have been too busy since yesterday
09:43<V453000>just ignore ratings in tha case debdog :)
09:43<V453000>supermop_: no rush, it only took almost 3 years so now you don't have to hurry :D
09:44<supermop_>debdog: its the kind of thing that a GS could do much more flexibly
09:44<V453000>already scheming new train set
09:44<V453000>I will show andythenorth how shit's not done
09:44<supermop_>GS could take different start dates, map sizes, cheaper or more expensive vehicles into account
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09:55<Montana>Hi everybody. I would like to collaborate on a http://dev.openttdcoop.org project. How must I start?
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10:02<_dp_>80 stations is completely meaningless on any size of map
10:03<_dp_>as most of other rest of perf rating criterias
10:05<supermop_>_dp_ in 1994 before anyone had spent much time with the game i am sure it seemed like something
10:05<_dp_>and btw, starting year doesn't rly matter as you can max it in like 6-8 years
10:06<_dp_>supermop_, everything seemed like something without the internet :p
10:06<supermop_>they had to throw something together to make it feel 'game like' to the game magazines
10:07<_dp_>well, I get why it could be a good idea back then
10:08<_dp_>it's just now it's like hey, it's 2050, time to show that stupid message
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10:09<debdog>oopsie, was not my intention to start a discussion over this
10:10<_dp_>imagine if irl in 2050 everyone gets huge message like hey, you're a looser, you only have 1 cat out of 80 xD
10:11<supermop_>_dp_: i am fully expecting that msg if i am still alive
10:15<V453000>omg 80 cats
10:15<V453000>life meaning found
10:16<V453000>where is mr south to explain to me how wrong brix is
10:16<V453000>:(
10:16<_dp_>V453000, yeah, and make sure they make at least 20k$/year each :p
10:17<V453000>cats make $?
10:17<_dp_>sure, who else?
10:20<_dp_>well, I guess slugs will do too
10:22<_dp_>somehow I like brix the most on 0.5x %)
10:23<_dp_>1x is ok, but 2 and 4 not so much... though mb I'm not used to having 2 and 4 in general
10:23<_dp_>or mb it's too much noise
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10:31<Wolf01>Quak
10:32<frosch123>hoi
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10:33<LordAro>quak
10:34<LordAro>insufficient commits :(
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10:36<frosch123>LordAro: did ms start to use "^" to declare pointer variables, like delphi did?
10:39<frosch123>https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/gaming/relative-mouse-movement <- or more explicitly: what are those "MouseDevice^" things otherwise?
10:41<ST2>https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/78ag5h/ive_never_seen_this_type_of_biter_before/ <<-- I bet it's V453000 making tests trying to acomplishing the 80 cats for the 2050 message xD
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10:41<V453000>._.
10:42<V453000>already saw that one earlier today :P
10:42<ST2>well, I wake up a bit later ^^
10:42<V453000>lazy shit :P
10:42<V453000>no timezone excuses
10:43<ST2>lazyness it's a culture thing and I'l a very cultural person :P
10:43<ST2>I'm*
10:44<V453000>:D damn straight
10:44<LordAro>frosch123: managed C++ smart pointers, i believe
10:44<V453000>I gtfo
10:44<V453000>cya later
10:44<LordAro>only ever seen them used in ancient scary codebases no one wanted to touch
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10:49<frosch123>https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/yk97tc08.aspx <- LordAro: found it
10:49<LordAro>yup
10:49<LordAro>terrifying ancient thing
10:50<LordAro>avoid.
10:51<frosch123>not even ten years old :p
10:51<frosch123>sure, COM is ancient, but the "^" thingie is from msvc 2008
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10:54<frosch123>LordAro: anyway, i discovered that i do not need to learn harfbuzz, but pango
10:54<frosch123>harfbuzz is too low-level
10:56<LordAro>ooh, lovely
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11:43<@planetmaker>wow, V453000 , nice BRIX and nice blog article on it :) kudos. And thanks for it :)
11:44<Samu>only 2 stations get cargo? :(
11:44<Samu>if there's 1 coal mine and 5 stations, only 2 get cargo? :(
11:44<Samu>sounds unfair
11:49<Samu> Station *st1 = NULL; // Station with best rating Station *st2 = NULL; // Second best station
11:49<Samu>why :(
11:50<Samu>i remember TTD, it would deliver cargo to at least 3 stations
11:54<Wolf01>"but the "^" thingie"... ugly as shit :(
11:54<Wolf01>I remember I've seen it somewhere and I said "how do I read this code?"
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12:20<andythenorth>V453000: sick blog post
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13:20<supermop_>Samu: ttd only did 2 stations
13:20<supermop_>so did tto
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13:42<Samu>u sure about that? i remember cargo being into 3 stations
13:42<Samu>the 2 best stations were getting the biggest sum, the 3rd would only get a tiny fraction
13:45<Samu>when i was playing vs competitors, they would get cargo
13:45<Samu>ais
13:50<Samu>so, how many stations would get the cargo, then?
13:51<Samu>i've thought of an infinite number
13:51<Samu>but that's impossible lol
13:51<Samu>so, there's 15 companies, why not 15 stations
13:54<Samu>i've made code for up to 3 best stations, but if I'm increasing to 15, i need to come up with a better code :(
13:55<Samu>i also wonder what are desyncs and callbacks, i see some notes advertising about desyncs
13:55<Samu> /* These two UpdateStationWaiting's can't be in the statement as then the order * of execution would be undefined and that could cause desyncs with callbacks. */
13:56<Samu>what's a statement :(
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14:05<supermop_>yo andythenorth
14:05<andythenorth>yo
14:10<Wolf01>o/
14:15<Samu>someone explain me https://hg.openttd.org/trunk.hg/file/38f570b5f6b1/src/station_cmd.cpp#l3896
14:15<Samu>what the comment warns about
14:15<Samu>I am trying to update several stations
14:16<Samu>it only got 2, but i'm currently editing the code so it updates up to 3 stations
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14:25<Samu>halp anyone
14:27<Wolf01>It says the order must be always the same or it desyncs with callbacks
14:29<Samu>the two Updates... can't be in the statement... where exactly? :(
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14:29<Samu>what if I have 3 stations :( wut can i dew
14:30<Gustavo6046>dew?
14:30<Gustavo6046>did you mean do
14:30<Gustavo6046>or mountain dew?
14:30<Samu>do
14:35<Samu>haallphttps://paste.openttdcoop.org/pfsmdufv4
14:35<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pfsmdufv4
14:35<Samu>line 101
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14:45<V453000>evening gentlemen
14:45<V453000>planetmaker: andythenorth fuck yeah
14:45<V453000>:)
14:45<V453000>onwards to moar newgrfs
14:51<frosch123>the trees were quite a surprise
14:51<frosch123>did i miss them before, or did you not showcase them here before?
14:51<V453000>I'm pretty sure I did
14:51<V453000>many times
14:52<V453000>I was working on them for like 2-3 months so definitely
14:52<frosch123>i knew the hugging trees, but not the more flowery ones
14:52<V453000>yeah I was making arctic, temperate, tropic in that order
14:52<V453000>and each of them took weeks
14:52<frosch123>so, i missed the tropic ones :)
14:53<V453000>yeah
14:54<frosch123>i liked the idea "make trees smaller so people do not set them to transparent" :p
14:54<V453000>yeah ... from personal experience I'm not sure it works as intended
14:55<V453000>I still tend to hide them
14:55<V453000>might be habit, might be the fact that when building I simply don't want to see anything else than terrain and tracks
14:55<frosch123>also, yay for gridlines :)
14:55<frosch123>i always prefered gridlines
14:57<V453000>I agree at this point
14:57<andythenorth>sometimes I turn trees on for a bit
14:57<andythenorth>but not for long
14:57<V453000>it really improves readability
14:59*andythenorth hasn't written any blog posts
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15:26<andythenorth>:(
15:26<andythenorth>I've angered Jenkins
15:29<frosch123>you are only doing it for the yippee later on
15:33*andythenorth should join coop channel for that
15:33<andythenorth>trains http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/iron-horse/push/LATEST/docs/html/trains.html#pony
15:33<andythenorth>needs work
15:33<andythenorth>should I include wagons? o_O
15:35<frosch123>add them at the end, like a separate roster
15:35<frosch123>but docs need to include them, otherwise you cannot link them and argue about stats
15:36<frosch123>there is some encoding issue with names
15:36<frosch123>look at the engine between universal and roca
15:38<andythenorth>so there is
15:38<andythenorth>that caused trouble before
15:38*andythenorth is really bad at solving encoding issues
15:43<Wolf01>The 2-8-2- Collett looks too short
15:43<Wolf01>It looks like a 2-6-0 or a 2-6-2
15:44<Wolf01>Did you swap it with the 2-6-2 above?
15:45<Wolf01>That even looks like the real Collett
15:46<andythenorth>no engine sprites are finished
15:46<andythenorth>they're all placeholder :)
15:46<Wolf01>Oh, k then
15:47<Wolf01>I have troubles making arches with lego instead
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15:57<andythenorth>wagons http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/iron-horse/push/LATEST/docs/html/trains.html
15:57<andythenorth>the many errors are known about :)
16:00<frosch123>hmm, ok, the number of wagons dwarf the engines
16:01<andythenorth>yup
16:02<frosch123>hmm, wagons would show other stats than engines
16:03<frosch123>separate table? generations in columns?
16:07<andythenorth>possibly yes
16:11<frosch123>have you decided whether to use the same wagons for all track types?
16:11<frosch123>specifically ng
16:14<andythenorth>ng gets its own wagons
16:14<andythenorth>in pony, a much smaller set
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16:27<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/iron-horse/push/LATEST/docs/html/trains.html
16:27<andythenorth>split the wagon table
16:28<andythenorth>hmm, it's out of order :P
16:28<andythenorth>faff
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16:48<supermop_>purchase sprites for trams done
16:50<andythenorth>what about online docs? o_O
16:51<V453000>rocking 0 forum replies per 24 hours at this point
16:51<V453000>shit's getting real
16:51<V453000>:D
16:58<andythenorth>0 forum replies is most winning
16:59<andythenorth>[crickets]
17:00<andythenorth>V453000 also tbh if you weren't hanging out here pushing self forward, I think I'd lose interest in grfs
17:00<andythenorth>although we have supermop now too :P
17:00<supermop_>V453000: no replies = perfect grf
17:01<andythenorth>bring back Pikka and Dan I say
17:01<Samu>back
17:02<supermop_>should have just paid pikka 10 grand to make that grf
17:03<Samu>https://hg.openttd.org/trunk.hg/file/38f570b5f6b1/src/station_cmd.cpp#l3896 where is the statement located
17:03<Samu>Wolf01:
17:04<Samu>the statement order
17:04<Wolf01>¯\_(ツ)_/¯
17:05<Samu>do you understand what you have to do if you were to Update 3 times?
17:07<Samu>These two UpdateStationWaiting's can't be in "the" statement
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17:07<Samu>where is that statement at, explain me like i'm a 5 years old
17:09<Samu>plzzz... :(
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17:16<Samu>i need a personal code teacher :(
17:16<supermop_>sounds expensive
17:17<Samu>supermop_: do you know what statements are?
17:17<supermop_>in terms of the source code, no
17:17<supermop_>i don't know anything about C or programming
17:17<Samu>t.t
17:17<supermop_>i barely understand nml
17:19<Samu>how am i testing for desyncs... what are callbacks :(
17:20<Samu>i'm a bit lost here :(
17:20<Wolf01>I think that comment is just missing a "same", but I should actually read and understand what the code does and what are the implications, but I just want to netflix now
17:22<Samu>that code dumps cargo on a station
17:22<Samu>from an industry, or house or so
17:22<Samu>if there are various stations, it dumps to the 2 best rated stations
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17:22<Samu>oh well, i'll see if i can cause desyncs
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17:57<supermop_>tram list here: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1193380#p1193380
17:59<frosch123>yarra lrv is duplicated
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17:59<supermop_>wrong string ugh
18:00<frosch123>hmm, i am not used to that long vehicle names
18:00<frosch123>there are actually a lot of duplicate names
18:01<supermop_>frosch123: hard to come up with enough
18:01<supermop_>or good names
18:02<frosch123>is it supposed to be a japanese set?
18:02<supermop_>first part of string is fake manufacturer name, 2nd part is type of tram roughly
18:02<supermop_>no, supposed to be manufacturers from around the world
18:03<supermop_>some based loosely on real companies
18:03<supermop_>there are 2 fake japanese companies, 2-3 fake german ones, 2 fake british ones, one fake italian one, one hawaiian one
18:03<supermop_>one swedish
18:04<supermop_>one vietnamese
18:04<frosch123>well, i would suggest to shorten the names a lot
18:04<supermop_>one australian
18:05<supermop_>for the trucks it is similar problem
18:05<supermop_>but those i made up model numbers which helps
18:05<frosch123>Abc Electric Tram -> Abc (electric)
18:05<supermop_>hmmm
18:05<supermop_>yes i guess it is obvious it is electric
18:06<frosch123>there are many which have like 30 letters, and only distinguish in 2
18:06<frosch123>Kaimuki 1M Electric TRam Motor and Trailer
18:06<frosch123>vs. same with "BX"
18:07<frosch123>"Kaimuki 1M" and "Kaimuki BX" would look better
18:07<supermop_>+1
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19:19<Samu>who worked on linkgraphs and cargodist stuff?
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19:57<Wolf01>'night
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20:07<firsquestion>hello
20:08<firsquestion>is this the right place to ask openttd / FIRS questions?
20:09<firsquestion>i want to know if the devs know about the MD5 mismatch for the latest version of FIRS (v3 alpha 10)
20:10<firsquestion>is anyone here?
20:11<Sylf>You should always just ask the main question
20:12<Sylf>Someone will come around and answer it eventually
20:12<firsquestion>sorry im new here
20:12<firsquestion>but with the latest FIR 3, the MD5 hash for the openttd bananas server is "34 20 b9 7b 1b 84 19 4e d7 df 6f b7 8b 17 d8 f2" but the openttdcoop.org version, which seems to be the main FIRS site has an MD5 hash of 15 b9 63 1d b0 8d 31 99 33 32 27 9e 97 7d 5c c9
20:13<firsquestion>so this "firs.grf" creates a mismatch
20:13<firsquestion>im not sure which firs.grf is the main one that everyone in a server should use
20:14<Sylf>When you try to join a server, it shows if you have all the needed newgrf. If not, it gives an option to attempt to download the right version on the spot from the official downloader system (bananas)
20:15<firsquestion>yeah, and it said there was a mismatch since there are apparently 2 different firs.grf files, when they should be identical
20:15<Sylf>so you don't need to try ti find all those md5 hash and stuff that's beyond what some of us would like to care about
20:15<firsquestion>they both claim to be v3.0 alpha 10, but the mismatch means they are not identical
20:15<firsquestion>with all of the other NewGRFs ive dl with the content program they all matched just fine
20:16<firsquestion>but with the recent update to FIRS 3.0, there seems to be a problem
20:16<Sylf>as long as you have a copy of the actual right version with the right md5 hash grfid and all that stuff, you can have multiple copies of firs
20:16<Sylf>which server?
20:16<firsquestion>but i need to know which version is the 'real' version
20:16<firsquestion>bc a friend wanted to start an openttd server
20:16<firsquestion>and they used the openttdcoop FIRS 3 which is apparently different from the bananas server
20:16<Sylf>whichever version that's picked by the server is the correct version for that server.
20:17<firsquestion>but which is the official FIRS version?
20:17<firsquestion>bananas or openttdcoop?
20:17<Sylf>Many versions.
20:17<firsquestion>well which is the version that reddit uses?
20:17<Sylf>There isn't a single official version.
20:17<Sylf>So, just tell me which server you're trying to connect
20:17<Sylf>Then I can tell what's going on.
20:17<firsquestion>i guess im not understand why different versions are using the exact version number and filename. that part doesnt make sense
20:17<firsquestion>ing*
20:18<firsquestion>the server is currently down now due to the mismatch
20:18<Sylf>file name really doesn't matter.
20:18<firsquestion>and he asked me to figure out which version is the official FIRS version
20:18<Sylf>Version number sometimes doesn't matter eith.r
20:18<firsquestion>well the md5 mismatch stopped the game
20:18<Sylf>Just tell me which server you're trying to connect, and THEN I can help you.
20:18<firsquestion>we realized people had bananas versions from content, and the openttdcoop version
20:18<firsquestion>the server is currently down now. you cant cannot to it
20:19<Sylf>Which coop server are you trying to connect?
20:19<firsquestion>he asked me to figure out which firs.grf is the official FIRS version
20:19<Sylf>LISTEN
20:19<firsquestion>its a person server thats down. you cannot connect to it
20:19<firsquestion>he took it offline due to the mismatch
20:20<firsquestion>and tasked me to figure out why theres a mismatch. and thats why im here bc i dont understand why there are multiple firs.grf files
20:20<Sylf>Tell him to bring it back online.
20:20<Sylf>or her.
20:20<firsquestion>but thats not the point . i just need to know which FIRS 3 is the 'correct' version
20:21<Sylf>There is NO single correct version.
20:21<Sylf>All versions are correct.
20:21<Sylf>What version is correct for THAT PARTICULAR SERVER depends on what version of FIRS is used ON THAT SERVER.
20:21<firsquestion>but dont you think thats confusing to have multiple files with the same name and version number and yet a mismatch still occurs?
20:21<Sylf>No.
20:21<Sylf>When mismatch happens, you can download the correct version on the spot.
20:21<firsquestion>do you work with FIRS?
20:21<Sylf>Then you have the right version.
20:22<Sylf>Yes, I play with FIRS.
20:22<firsquestion>have you tried alpha 10 by any chance?
20:22<Sylf>No.
20:22<firsquestion>do you know someone who has?
20:22<Sylf>Listen.
20:22<Sylf>I know what's going on.
20:22<Sylf>I've been playing this game for 7 years.
20:23<+glx>I think you should ask again in a more GB friendly time
20:23<firsquestion>so its common to have the same filenames and version numbers but the md5 is radically different?
20:23<firsquestion>bc i thought bananas was the central server to get all the newgrfs
20:23<Sylf>Yes, bananas is.
20:23<firsquestion>https://bananas.openttd.org/en/newgrf/
20:23<Sylf>But bananas also hosts MANY different versions - all historically released versions.
20:24<firsquestion>bc right now for FIRS 3, bananas is listing 2 different sources
20:24<Sylf>So it's best to download the version that's indicated as the correct version INSIDE the game.
20:24<firsquestion>so why doesnt bananas have the other md5 version then?
20:24<firsquestion>the one on that website is different from the linked openttdcoop one. its just very confusing
20:24<Sylf>Bananas WEBSITE only DISPLAYS the latest version.
20:24<firsquestion>but it also has a dl link too
20:25<Sylf>But the in-game downloader can detect and download the correct version for any given server, as long as it was ever published on bananas.
20:25<firsquestion>and that part worked fine for alpha 9, but alpha 10 was different apparently
20:25<Sylf>I give up.
20:25<+glx>newgrf version is not reliable, that's why MD5 is checked :)
20:25<firsquestion>yeah so if there are different md5 versions, why doesnt bananas list the other versions?
20:25<Sylf>Some times the grf author forgets to update the version string between two versions.
20:25<firsquestion>so that means the FIRS openttdcoop version is alpha 11?
20:26<+glx>maybe
20:26<firsquestion>is one of the FIRS devs in this room now? maybe they can help me
20:26<firsquestion>bc im just trying to find the latest version
20:26<Sylf>Please, just DON'T download it from the bananas website.
20:26<Sylf>DO USE THE IN-GAME DOWNLOADER.
20:26<firsquestion>and doesnt the gamae downloader use the bananas website?
20:27<firsquestion>or does it use a different server
20:27<Sylf>Yes, but it can see more than what you see on the web site.
20:27<Sylf>Actually, I take it back.
20:27<firsquestion>so is there a website that lists all the different FIRS versions altogether?
20:27<Sylf>bananas website is just a user interface to a bigger system called bananas.
20:27<+glx>that's why you should ask again at evening european time
20:28<firsquestion>yeah it was my understanding that bananas was a central server and that if someone wants to host, they should go to bananas to get the newgrfs
20:28<firsquestion>but then this mismatch occurred
20:28<firsquestion>but it sounds like the website for bananas is not showing all the files
20:28<Sylf>So, use the in-game downloader to download the right version for that server.
20:28<firsquestion>so if there a bananas website that will show all the files?
20:28<firsquestion>yeah the in game downloader gave me the wrong version
20:28<Sylf>No.
20:28<firsquestion>thats why im here
20:29<firsquestion>bc the mismatch prevented the game from working
20:29<Sylf>Please trust me, and use the in-game downloader.
20:29<Sylf>How many times have I sad that so far already?
20:29<Sylf>In-game downloader will solve your issue.
20:29<+glx>and download on the server page
20:29<Sylf>Srsly.
20:29<+glx>not in main menu
20:29<firsquestion>glx which page?
20:29<Sylf>Oh, I forgot that that part.
20:30<firsquestion>which server page
20:30<Sylf>In the game, when you're trying to connect to the server, you can see the newgrf setting
20:30<firsquestion>yeah it said mismatch in red
20:30<+glx>when you are joining a server you have the option to get missing newgrf
20:30<Sylf>If there's a newgrf mismatch, you can open the dialog, and check which newgrf's are missing
20:30<Sylf>on that window, there's also the button that lets you download the missing newgrfs
20:30<firsquestion>well thats just it, they are both called alpha 10
20:30<Sylf>Forget about alpha10
20:31<Sylf>trust the game system, and let the game download the right version for you when you attempt to connect to a server.
20:31<+glx>in main menu you always get latest version, but in server page you get the required by server one
20:31<firsquestion>yeah the dl the missing grf part didnt work
20:31<firsquestion>does the server host have to config that?
20:32<Sylf>If the dude who's hosting the server somehow got a version that was never released to the bananas, then that would be a problem.
20:32<firsquestion>yeah he got his file from the FIRS website
20:32<firsquestion>and that sent me down this rabbit hole
20:32<Sylf>that's the problem.
20:32<firsquestion>bc i get all of my newgrfs from bananas/content
20:33<firsquestion>and i thought it had to be a bug since the filenames and versions are identical for some reason
20:33<Sylf>He should use the version of firs that he can download in the game
20:33<firsquestion>he said he couldnt get the content download to work on his server and had to install the newgrfs manually
20:33<firsquestion>since he said everything is cmd line
20:33<+glx>it may be a newer version on FIRS site not uploaded to bananas yet
20:34<firsquestion>yeah that part i dont know. all i know is that the md5 mismatch cause an issue
20:34<Sylf>he can download things in-game over command line too.
20:34<Sylf>have that server host come to the irc channel - that would be easier
20:34<+glx>he can also download files on a client and then copy them on his server
20:35<firsquestion>can you give me the cmd line code to tell him? hes on a different irc server
20:35<Sylf>rcon commands are good enough for in-game download of newgrfs
20:35<firsquestion>so which rcon command would he type to get to to download latest ver of FIRS 3 and FIRS + ECS?
20:36<Sylf>rcon content update
20:36<Sylf>rcon content select all
20:36<Sylf>rcon content download
20:36<firsquestion>how to isolate the FIRS stuff?
20:37<Sylf>that should download all versions available on bananas
20:37<Sylf>rcon help content
20:37<+glx>https://wiki.openttd.org/Rcon_command#Installing_online_content
20:38<+glx>rcon content state firs
20:38<Sylf>rcon content state FIRS
20:38<Sylf>D: too slow
20:38<firsquestion>is it case senstive?
20:39<+glx>probably not sensitive
20:39<firsquestion>he says rcon isnt grabbing the files
20:39<firsquestion>does he need to config something else to get it to work?
20:39<+glx>content state gives the id
20:39<Sylf>he needs to have rcon password set in the openttd.cfg
20:39<Sylf>and pass the rcon password with each rcon command
20:39<+glx>then rcon select <id>
20:39<firsquestion>how does he get the pw?
20:40<+glx>it's set in cfg
20:40<Sylf>vim openttd.cfg
20:40<firsquestion>he said he already set the pw in the cfg
20:40<firsquestion>what else can he check
20:40<Sylf>help rcon
20:40<Sylf>so, those commands would be more like
20:40<+glx>first step is always "rcon content update"
20:41<Sylf>rcon password 'content update'
20:41<Sylf>rcon password 'content select 4865'
20:41<Sylf>rcon password 'content download'
20:41<Sylf>etc
20:41<firsquestion>he says it fails to dl and doesnt return an error
20:41<Sylf>where is he running those commands?
20:42<Sylf>from a client that's connected to the server?
20:42<firsquestion>the server is all cmd line
20:42<firsquestion>no gui
20:42<firsquestion>so he just rcons thru there
20:42<Sylf>then that's not rcon
20:42<firsquestion>it doesnt have a client
20:42<+glx>oh skip rcon if there's local access to the consol
20:42<Sylf>rcon is remote control
20:42<firsquestion>glx so what should he do?
20:42<Sylf>content update
20:42<Sylf>content select XXXX
20:43<Sylf>content download
20:43<firsquestion>Sylf: he says that keeps failing
20:43<firsquestion>it just doesnt dl anything apparently
20:43<+glx>Wait until "Content server connection closed" is printed in the console.
20:43<Sylf>We really need that guy in this channel.
20:43<Sylf>Can't he connect to 2 irc servers?
20:43<+glx>of course he can :)
20:43<+glx>I'm on 4 servers
20:43<firsquestion>unfortunately he says he doesnt want to go to another server
20:44<firsquestion>>_<
20:44<+glx>@ports
20:44<@DorpsGek>glx: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
20:45<+glx>just in case it's a firewall problem, but outbound connections should not be a problem
20:47<+glx>anyway after typing "content update" he has to wait until "Content server connection closed" is printed in the console.
20:49<+glx>because the list is retrieved asynchronly I think
20:50<firsquestion>hes also asking what is the content download folder for a server?
20:51<firsquestion>where*
20:51<Sylf>it worked for me to download when I tried the commands before I saw the server connection closed message
20:51<firsquestion>he also tells me hes forced to manually unpack the tar files
20:51<firsquestion>shouldnt content dl do this for him?
20:51<+glx>no need to unpack tar
20:51<firsquestion>so what is he doing wrong?
20:52<+glx>openttd just reads them natively
20:52<firsquestion>he says he only see the tars
20:52<Sylf>don't forget rescannewgrf command after download is done
20:52<Sylf>and don't forget to update the openttd.cfg to use the right version of firs
20:52<firsquestion>rcon rescan newgrf?
20:53<Sylf>just rescannewgrf
20:53<Sylf>because he's not using rcon
20:57<firsquestion>he says rescannewgrf isnt working
21:00<+glx>hmm isn't rescannewgrf a dev command ?
21:00<Sylf>Sorry, but "it isn't working" doesn't allow us to help you much
21:01<Sylf>we have no idea what's exactly not working, how it's not working... like what exact command was used, what the user exepected to see, what he user exactly saw in reality, etc
21:01<Sylf>rescannewgrf is a pretty generic command to me
21:01<Sylf>it's listed in list_cmds
21:01<firsquestion>well the other thing i want to know is that, i had alpha 9 and then told content dl to get firs 3 alpha 10
21:02<firsquestion>but now my alpha 9 file is no longer listed under 'active newgrf files'
21:02<firsquestion>its apparently gone. is that normal? you cant have more than one version listed?
21:02<Sylf>there's an option somewhere to display all the versions that you have.
21:02<firsquestion>how?
21:03<Sylf>cheking...
21:03<+glx>set newgrf_show_old_versions 1
21:03<firsquestion>ok let me try that
21:03<Sylf><-- too slow again D:
21:04<+glx>I had the wiki opened ;)
21:04<Sylf>I was searching in openttd.cfg :P
21:04<firsquestion>so that option cannot be set in game?
21:04<Sylf>yes you can
21:04<firsquestion>i dont see it in Settings
21:04<firsquestion>different name?
21:04<Sylf>hit ` key (or whatever key to the left of 1)
21:04<+glx>it's in the console only
21:05<Sylf>that opens the command interface
21:05<Sylf>and type in that command in that console
21:05<firsquestion>oh so theres no gui for this?
21:05<Sylf>apparently not
21:05<+glx>you usually don't want to see old stuff
21:05<firsquestion>ok i pressed ` and typed it in
21:05<firsquestion>but pressign enter didnt do anything
21:06<Sylf>close the newgrf window and open it again
21:06<+glx>now open the dialogs as before
21:06<firsquestion>its still not listing the older version
21:07<+glx>maybe be it also needs "set newgrf_developer_tools 1"
21:07<firsquestion>ah there it goes
21:07<firsquestion>i pressed ` in a different spot
21:07<firsquestion>but thanks for the help! :)
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21:20<firsquestion>so on his server he still says that while content is download the tar files, the server still doesnt recognize the tar files as newgrf
21:20<firsquestion>is there another setting he has to do to get it to recognize?
21:21<Sylf>how did he determine that it doesn't recognize the tar files as newgrf?
21:22<firsquestion>he launches the server and the newgrf isnt listed
21:23<firsquestion>he keeps telling me he has to manually extract the tars to get the newgrfs
21:23<firsquestion>and i told him the game should do that automatically
21:23<Sylf>What does "the newgrf sin't listed" mean? Where does he expect to see it?
21:23<firsquestion>the server loads and newgrf isnt loaded
21:23<firsquestion>but he says content dl is just dl the tar file
21:23<Sylf>yes, and that's all the game needs.
21:24<Sylf>Has he edited openttd.cfg?
21:24<firsquestion>yeo
21:24<firsquestion>yep
21:24<firsquestion>but he still says it doesnt work unless he extracts the tar files
21:24<+glx>is he using a savegame ?
21:24<firsquestion>no
21:25<Sylf>did he compile the game himself?
21:25<Sylf>maybe he didn't have all the dev libraries, and it's not compiled with tar support?
21:25<Sylf>I dunno.
21:26<+glx>tar doesn't require a lib
21:26<Sylf>I wouldn't think so
21:26<Sylf>but if he claims that it works when he untars the file... then I dunno
21:26<Sylf>tar file works perfectly for me
21:27<+glx>maybe it's just a mistake in openttd.cfg
21:27<Sylf>oh, yeah, if he edits openttd.cfg manually, the newgrf line probably looks different
21:28<firsquestion>so is there a way he can do this without having to manually edit the cfg?
21:29<Sylf>he can open openttd locally, set up newgrf locally, exit the game (which writes the correct version of openttd.cfg) and upload the cfg to the server
21:29<Sylf>or, create a map locally, and upload the .sav file, and load the .sav file on the server
21:30<firsquestion>well he doesnt use save files to start with
21:30<firsquestion>i just dont understand why his server doesnt use the tars automatically
21:31<+glx>probably just a mistake in cfg
21:31<Sylf>can we see the [newgrf] section of the cfg, maybe paste it on http://paste.openttdcoop.org/?
21:33<firsquestion>ill ask
21:34<+glx>should be something like grfid|md5|tarname/newgrf.grf
21:35<+glx>with some optional parts
21:35<Sylf>probably
21:35<Sylf>F1250007|67611437534CD7C36BEF40A74063EF4B|firs_industry_replacement_set_3-3.0.0alpha10/firs.grf = 0 0 0 0 0 0 16 150 80 300
21:35<Sylf>That's what I got when I loaded firs3 tar
21:38<firsquestion>it looks like hes not available right now
21:38<Sylf>o_O and my local copy of tar file doesn't have all-lower-case file name
21:38<firsquestion>but when he comes back is there anything else i should tell him to try to fix the tar issue?
21:39<+glx>I think the issue is just an error in openttd.cfg
21:39<Sylf>copy/paste the line I pasted and try that?
21:39<+glx>the best way to configure newgrf for a server is to do it in a client
21:40<+glx>using the GUI
21:40<Sylf>I concur
21:43<firsquestion>ok i have the openttd cfg i just have to post it
21:43<firsquestion> version_string = 1.7.1 version_number = 17186CE9 [newgrf] 44440A01|FCEEC76CF44EC23E7FE9C88048CF11CC|av8_Aviators_Aircraft_Set-2.21/pb_av8w.grf = 54570101|E25D564F7F8F4B3AC6C7F375BD25B387|ussetw.grf = 41501202|B13DD8FB0D7C34CACAC2FE68BD137BB9|heqs.grf = F1250007|67611437534CD7C36BEF40A74063EF4B|FIRS_Industry_Replacement_Set_3-3.0.0alpha10/firs.grf = 4A530117|CA32127C974FD70434F9CA4E0AD4A501|EFrefit.grf = [newgrf-static]
21:44<firsquestion>he told me had to manually extract the files to get the server to recognize them
21:47<firsquestion>so can you see why it never wants to use the tar files from the cfg?
21:47<Sylf>The only things that's different from my cfg line are
21:47<Sylf>my line has all lower case file name, even when I'm on a system that cares about file name case sensitivity (linux)
21:48<Sylf>and my line has extra values after =, which are the newgrf default values, I assume.
21:48<firsquestion>so why are his uppercase?
21:48<Sylf>Because he edited it by hand?
21:49<Sylf>I can try his version and see
21:49<Sylf>it works great here.
21:50<Sylf>with ~/.openttd/content_download/newgrf/FIRS_Industry_Replacement_Set_3-3.0.0alpha10.tar in place
21:52<firsquestion>can you copy and paste the full newgrf file with the lowercase?
21:52<Sylf>where did he get his openttd? is his server running windows? linux? osx?
21:52<firsquestion>i think its a linux box with only cmd line
21:52<firsquestion>its an old comp
21:55<Sylf>all lowercase would be ~/.openttd/content_download/newgrf/firs_industry_replacement_set_3-3.0.0alpha10.tar
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