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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-10-28

---Logopened Sat Oct 28 00:00:58 2017
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02:18<andythenorth>o/
02:19<@Alberth>o/
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02:42<andythenorth>I need fewer ports
02:52<@Alberth>that would need connecting chains
02:52<@Alberth>how does extreme do that, it has a zillion ports?
02:54<@Alberth>tbh I am not sure you should make each economy the same-ish, so the same game-play is useful for each economy
02:55<andythenorth>extreme uses ports to provide free ENSP and FMSP
02:55<andythenorth>otherwise the gameplay is very dominated by generating those cargos
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02:56<andythenorth>extreme is better played as a sandbox, or with BB
02:57<@Alberth>so it has enough chains to avoid ports
02:58<andythenorth>well it has enough chains that it's easy to dump arbitrary cargos into ports
02:58<andythenorth>generating ENSP and FMSP
02:59<andythenorth>ports function to get cargos produced from inputs that make no sense IRL
02:59<andythenorth>trading, rather than processing
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05:21<andythenorth>maybe this is better http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown
05:21<andythenorth>previous: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown
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05:26<Samu>hi
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05:40<Samu>i need a proper way to identify an oil rig station at an industry, for newgrf purposes
05:40<Samu>i tested FIRS
05:41<Samu>there's an industry that is built on water but doesn't have an oilrig station near
05:42<@Alberth>andythenorth: "Larger cargoflow" doesn't quite work, but the farms seem out of place to me
05:43<Samu>Port, Bulk Terminal, Fishing Harbour, more than 1 actually
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05:47<Samu>then, there's Fishing Grounds and Dredging Site which built oilrigs, firs calls it sandbanks
05:49<@Alberth> ports are not water industries
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05:52<Samu>i'm confused, i need to build them at coasts
05:52<Samu>coastal tiles are water tiles
05:52<Samu>MP_WATER
05:53<@Alberth>yes, it requires coast tiles but it's a normal lang industry
05:53<@Alberth>you cannot use the industry without building a station next to it
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05:54<@Alberth>andy just added a requirement to the tiles that some must be watery
05:54<@Alberth>looks better, given the name :)
05:55<Samu>i need to investigate the Port industry better
05:55<Samu>what behaviour does it have and such
05:56<@Alberth>you can look up in the code what type iof industry it i
05:56<@Alberth>*is
05:56<@Alberth>bbl
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05:56<Samu>so apparently, i can't identify an oil rig by the industry behavioir
05:57<Samu>when i say oil rig, I mean the station near the industry
06:07<V453000>do I go to jail if I have openttd in the background just playing the original ttd music?
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06:10<Eddi|zuHause>if it's the old title game, you surely go insane from the *dingdingding* :p
06:11<V453000>no it's a multiplayer map scrolled to the corner :D
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08:34<andythenorth>so how much should the grapviz layout dictate FIRS gameplay?
08:34<Eddi|zuHause>as grahpviz layout is generally terrible: not too much
08:38<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#in_a_hot_country is that a mess or not?
08:38<andythenorth>because the economy plays fine
08:38<andythenorth>'mess' is a relative concept in graphviz output
08:39<Eddi|zuHause>that seems fine to me, why?
08:39<andythenorth>ok
08:40<andythenorth>triangulating what 'mess' means to other people
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>not sure if i'm a reliable authority on that :p
08:42<andythenorth>it will do
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08:57<andythenorth>this chart is somewhat neat
08:57<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown
08:58<andythenorth>but Pipe doesn't go to Liquids Terminal, and I want it to
08:58<andythenorth>it's play-tested already and works fine
08:58<andythenorth>adding that edge ruins the graph
08:58<andythenorth>also sending Vehicles to port ruins the graph
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>can't help you on that
09:00<frosch123>sulphur goes to liquids terminal?
09:00<andythenorth>molten sulphur
09:01<Samu>supermop are u around
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09:02<@Alberth>o/
09:02<andythenorth>lo Alberth
09:02<frosch123>just add the pipe->liquid terminal
09:02<frosch123>i think you are overrating the graphs
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09:02<frosch123>port is weird
09:02<frosch123>port is like a town
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>i think you can add a property to a -> so it doesn't induce a layout change
09:03<frosch123>can the general store produce gold?
09:03<andythenorth>that's kind of what I want to hear
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>but instead is drawn whatever way fits
09:03<Samu>need english help
09:03<Samu>STR_CONFIG_SETTING_NONIND_ACCEPT_AT_SELF :Allow industry stations to accept cargo of other sources: {STRING2}
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09:03<Samu>STR_CONFIG_SETTING_IND_ACCEPT_AT_NONSELF
09:04<Samu>STR_CONFIG_SETTING_IND_ACCEPT_AT_NONSELF :Allow non-industry stations to accept cargo accepted by the industry: {STRING2}
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09:04<Samu>STR_CONFIG_SETTING_NONIND_SUPPLY_AT_SELF :Allow industry stations to supply cargo of other sources: {STRING2}
09:04<Samu>STR_CONFIG_SETTING_IND_SUPPLY_AT_NONSELF :Allow non-industry stations to be supplied with cargo supplied by the industry: {STRING2}
09:04<Samu>regarding this: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=77199
09:05<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown
09:05<andythenorth>pretty bad
09:05<frosch123>vehicle dealer should output scrap metal
09:05<frosch123>hmm, oh there is a separate scrap yard
09:05<andythenorth>scrappage :)
09:05<andythenorth>at a fixed rate?
09:05<andythenorth>or more if vehicles are delivered?
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09:06<Eddi|zuHause>cash for clunkers (or what was that called?)
09:06<Samu>guess it's confusing?
09:06<frosch123>conversation is hard :)
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09:06<frosch123>fixed rate
09:06<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: tooth gold
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>hm... 45 minutes to download Civ VI (and then i probably hate it)
09:14<@Alberth>towns produce scrap :p
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09:25<Samu>i figured better variable names
09:25<Samu>ACCEPT_NONINDCARGO_AT_INDSTATION
09:25<Samu>ACCEPT_INDCARGO_AT_NONINDSTATION
09:25<Samu>SUPPLY_NONINDCARGO_AT_INDSTATION
09:25<supermop_home>Eddi|zuHause: that was the colloquial name used in the news, the actual law/program had some stupid law name no one remembers
09:25<Samu>SUPPLY_INDCARGO_AT_NONINDSTATION
09:25<Samu>hope they're clear enough
09:25<Eddi|zuHause>supermop_home: we had a similar program called "Abwrackprämie"
09:26<supermop_home>sometimes American laws have the most boring uninformative names,
09:26<Samu>oh, supermop_home, if you have time, are these string names easy to understand?
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>supermop_home: german law names are also boring, but also occasionally monstrous :p
09:27<Samu>they are strings for settings
09:27<supermop_home>and sometimes some congressman tries to be clever and shoehorn a ridiculous name into a lame acronym that makes you roll your eyes like a bad dad joke
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure the concept of a "dad joke" exists here
09:27<supermop_home>samu, make sense to me
09:28<Samu>oki
09:28<supermop_home>Eddi|zuHause I could make a bad dad joke about how all german jokes are bad....
09:28<supermop_home>I do know many germans who are pretty funny though
09:28<Samu>Alberth: i might have some trouble identifying industries which build stations
09:29<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pmtjm5zum
09:29<Samu>is this enough?
09:30<Samu>i'm not too sure what tile_are_loop do
09:30<Eddi|zuHause>supermop_home: well, my understanding of "dad jokes" is that they're meant to be bad
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09:31<supermop_home>Eddi|zuHause I think it depends on if the joke is being told as a meta joke or not
09:31<Samu>tile_area_loop
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09:31<supermop_home>in the most straightforward case I believe it is just a bad joke from a dad who things its kind of funny
09:33<supermop_home>some dads of course are aware of how embarassing the bad jokes are to their teenage kids and as a meta joke, then tell intentionally bad jokes in the style of a clueless dad
09:33<Samu>are there newgrf industries that build train stations, i think i saw some newgrf that do this... can't recall
09:34<supermop_home>my dad seemed to pass into this 2nd phase around 8 or so years ago (when I was already in my 20s)
09:34<supermop_home>also before he became aware of this trope he actually told pretty good jokes
09:35<supermop_home>after having a few jokes fall flat with my wife, over the past couple years, I have prematurely moved to the dad joke phase with her
09:37<andythenorth>if I delete the Pipe cargo, the graph likely improves
09:37<supermop_home>what is the UK dad joke paradigm andythenorth?
09:38<andythenorth>on a par with dad dancing
09:39<supermop_home>hmm that is not an established trope here
09:39<supermop_home>my dad generally avoids dancing as much as possible
09:40<supermop_home>my mom had to force him to at my wedding
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09:40<frosch123>also at his own wedding?
09:40<andythenorth>ok so FIRS graphs are poor when an end-of-chain output cargo loops back to near the start of a chain
09:41<andythenorth>the graphs are set up to avoid that for ENSP and FMSP
09:41<frosch123>andythenorth: it's called "supplies"
09:41<frosch123>replace pipe with engsup?
09:41<supermop_home>frosch123 based on the photos of him in an all white tuxedo with flared pants, I assume he was a bit more eager then
09:41<andythenorth>frosch123: tried that, works
09:42<andythenorth>doesn't give me interesting cargo sprites though :)
09:42<supermop_home>andy's lament "it works, must fix it"
09:42<supermop_home>you could tattoo that across your chest
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09:48<andythenorth>supermop_home: should <button> and <input> tags in html stop showing hand cursor on hover? o_O
09:48<andythenorth>oops, wrong obsession :P
09:49<andythenorth>frosch123: is it wrong to group more cargos in with ENSP/FMSP? o_O
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09:51<frosch123>i would rather look at the amount of industries producing/requireing them
09:51<frosch123>supplies are not supposed to be a mass cargo, right?
09:52<andythenorth>no
09:52<frosch123>they add production bonuses but are not directly processed
09:52<andythenorth>yes
09:52<andythenorth>ports are unusual
09:52<andythenorth>and are causing me trouble in Steeltown
09:52<frosch123>i actually would cut down on the ports in steeltown
09:52<andythenorth>I'm trying to :)
09:52<frosch123>merge port and trading post
09:53<supermop_home>i'd cut down on ports in general in most cases
09:53<frosch123>merge pipe into ensp
09:53<frosch123>and remove ensp from trading post
09:53<supermop_home>seems like port should be a niche helper, not the focus of chains
09:53<andythenorth>depends on economy
09:53<supermop_home>of course
09:54<andythenorth>if the only source of ENSP is the steel chain, Steeltown is unplayable :)
09:54<andythenorth>needs to be some almost-free sources
09:54<supermop_home>port is bootstrap helper
09:55<supermop_home>when game starts its like you are on some undeveloped frontier, of course you need a little bit from outside to start up
09:55<frosch123>i do not quite like "zinc"
09:56<frosch123>is there a good term for "additive metals" or something?
09:56<supermop_home>but some portal where you dump hundreds of tons of x and get hundreds of tons of y doesn't quite fit
09:56<frosch123>something that could be delivered to multiple sources
09:56<frosch123>like foundry
09:56<supermop_home>something like fine metals?
09:56<frosch123>or some tools workshop: steel + additive metals -> goods
09:56<supermop_home>idk if that is the word, but thats the analogous term for chemical industry
09:56<frosch123>+ensp possibly
09:57<andythenorth>frosch123: I had 'non-ferrous metals' previously
09:57<andythenorth>deleted it in an earlier version
09:57<andythenorth>I am 100% not convinced by zinc
09:57<supermop_home>i wonder if grouping all the alloying metals together is weird tho
09:57<andythenorth>it was better as chemicals
09:57<supermop_home>zinc is a chemical
09:57<supermop_home>technically
09:58<andythenorth>let's try dropping zinc
09:58<frosch123>chemicals are liquids to me :)
09:58<andythenorth>liquid zinc ;)
09:58<frosch123>"fine metals" sound fine to me
09:58<frosch123>zinc -> fine metals
09:58<frosch123>fine metals -> foundry
09:58<frosch123>steel + fine metals -> tools workshop -> goods + ensp
09:59<supermop_home>frosch123 i feel like people might think fine metals are things for jewelry though, platinum, silver, gold, iridium
09:59*andythenorth tests
09:59<andythenorth>I think just deleting zinc is cleanest
09:59<andythenorth>can't expect a clean graph if there's too much stuff
10:00<frosch123>weird priorities again :)
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10:01<andythenorth>the graphs do seem to match up with playability
10:01*supermop_home fails to find simpsons zinc gif
10:01<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#in_a_hot_country <- I just played a game of that
10:01<andythenorth>the gameplay is fun, there are lots of almost-separate mini-chains
10:01<andythenorth>as per the graph
10:01<andythenorth>might be post-hoc rationalisation though :P
10:02<supermop_home>https://frinkiac.com/meme/S03E16/71032.jpg?lines=+Come+back.+Zinc%2C+come%0A+back.+Zinc%21
10:02<frosch123>"special metals"?
10:02<@Alberth>you change "in a hot country" lately?
10:03<@Alberth>*changed
10:03<andythenorth>not much
10:04<frosch123>andythenorth: about chains: i prefer asymmetric chains with either more producers than demanders or more demanders than producers. 1:1 cargos are weird
10:04<@Alberth>I tried it some time ago, and it didn't appeal to me, quite like default play
10:04<frosch123>that
10:05<frosch123>that's why i would like to have zinc/fine metal/special metals to have mulitple destinations
10:05<andythenorth>yes, it IAHC is quite like default play
10:06<@Alberth>steeltown forces me to decide where to bring the cargo
10:07<@Alberth>(if I have something to say about it :p )
10:08<andythenorth>interesting feedback
10:08<andythenorth>I thought the choices would be annoying
10:08<andythenorth>I've been removing them
10:09<frosch123>mind, it's only a choice if there are few destinations (2 or 3)
10:09<andythenorth>it has an upside too
10:09<frosch123>not if it's "everyone wants it"
10:09<frosch123>so, different to supplies
10:09<andythenorth>when there are 2 destinations, there is possibly more chance of one of them being nearby :P
10:09<andythenorth>this is a serious factor
10:10<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown
10:10<andythenorth>I think it's better without any secondary metals, just steel
10:10<andythenorth>logic says I should delete Pipe too
10:11<andythenorth>but Pipe cargo looks cool https://akronrrclub.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/fostoria-pipe-x.jpg
10:11<andythenorth>http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/photo/scaled/5631.jpg
10:11<andythenorth>I think that is a legit concern
10:14<@Alberth>clearly, pipe cargo must be yellow
10:14<andythenorth>or blue or green :D
10:15<@Alberth>I don't understand why you have farms and food in there
10:15<@Alberth>it looks off
10:15<andythenorth>food isn't optional
10:16<andythenorth>required for arctic and tropic
10:16<@Alberth>maybe you try to have alcohol in there? :p
10:16<frosch123>rename the economy to robot town
10:16<frosch123>replace food with batteries
10:17<andythenorth>are vehicles exportable? o_O
10:17<andythenorth>or just to towns?
10:17<andythenorth>there's something weird either way
10:17<andythenorth>vehicles -> port -> more stuff in the chain
10:18<andythenorth>vehicles -> towns, but everyone knows vehicles are a global export?
10:18<frosch123>i think ports should not accept the exact same as towns
10:18<frosch123>a port is not a town without inhabitants
10:19<frosch123>delivering goods or food to ports would be "wrong"
10:19<frosch123>vehicles may be acceptable
10:25<andythenorth>the clusters are better now http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown
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10:50<andythenorth>sand for glass isn't from the sea
10:50<andythenorth>should I add dredging site anyway?
10:50<andythenorth>there are zero sea-based industries in Steeltown
10:51<frosch123>i don't think that is bad
10:52<frosch123>keep the out-of-scope cargos to the ports :)
10:53<andythenorth>could add a black hole for Pipe
10:53<andythenorth>at sea
10:53<andythenorth>pipe-laying barge :P
10:54<andythenorth>could add wind turbines?
10:54<andythenorth>could add electrical machines?
10:54*andythenorth many ideas
10:59<@Alberth>consumer goods :)
10:59<andythenorth>fridges
10:59<frosch123>andythenorth: can you rename one of the ports to "shipyard"?
11:00<andythenorth>I played a game with shipyard :)
11:00<frosch123>or actually another shore-based industry "shipyard"
11:00<frosch123>accepting steel and pipe and stuff
11:00<andythenorth>had the 'sea supplies' concept
11:00<andythenorth>was kind of ... odd
11:00<andythenorth>sea supplies went to ports
11:01<frosch123>i imagine a shipyard to be visually interesting
11:01<andythenorth>+1
11:01<supermop_home>hmm city is outpacing the cute jitneys
11:01<andythenorth>oil rig construction yard
11:01<andythenorth>no oil though :D
11:01<supermop_home>could replace with trams or proper buses but I like seeing the little guys run around
11:02<frosch123>andythenorth: ofc, they are under construction
11:02<andythenorth>maybe I should add train factory
11:03<frosch123>i would stay away from that rabbit hole
11:03<frosch123>people will demand effect on gameplay
11:04<frosch123>(somehow that does not hold for shipyards :p )
11:05<andythenorth>no :)
11:05<Samu>dayum, i was having trouble creating settings
11:06<Samu>turns out a damn typo was affecting it all
11:06<Samu>STR_CONFIG_SETTING_ACCEPT_NONINDCARGO_AT_INDSTATION
11:06<Samu>STR_CONFIG_SETTINGS_ACCEPT_NONINDCARGO_AT_INDSTATION
11:06<Samu>that damn S
11:06<Samu>was ruining
11:08<frosch123>shipyard could boost nearby ports?
11:08<frosch123>likely too obscure
11:10<andythenorth>too obscure :)
11:10<andythenorth>it was a cute concept, but the chains just got way too long
11:11<Samu>https://imgur.com/6xXnabo
11:11<Samu>that Cargo Distribution just above... so misleading
11:12<Samu>is it in good english? i have yet to come with _HELPTEXTs
11:14<andythenorth>what else can I deliver to liquids terminal? o_O
11:17<frosch123>fmsp
11:18<andythenorth>resins? o_O
11:18<frosch123>not steeltown :)
11:19<andythenorth>milk? o_O
11:19<frosch123>you could shift cement from bulk terminal to liquids terminal
11:20<andythenorth>powdered?
11:21<frosch123>when you move cement to liquids, you can merge bulk terminal and port
11:21<andythenorth>nah, I'm one cargo over
11:22<andythenorth>3 into 2 doesn't go
11:22*andythenorth might lose wifi any minute :|
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11:44<andythenorth>gas field?
11:44<andythenorth>o_O
11:44<andythenorth>gas -> lime kiln
11:44<andythenorth>pipe -> gas field
11:44<andythenorth>port -> chemicals
11:44<andythenorth>sulphur -> bulk terminal
11:45<andythenorth>delete liquids terminal
11:56<andythenorth>probably just time to start play-testing
11:56<andythenorth>enough armchair design :P
12:02<Samu>question, are there town buildings built on water?
12:03<Samu>well, nevermind, even if they are, they don't have a neutral station
12:03<supermop_home>samu, no I'm not sure how that would work
12:04<supermop_home>something like a Vietnamese or Cambodian 'floating village' would be neat
12:04<supermop_home>but in practice it would probably be more like a FIRS fishing grounds with different sprites
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12:36<andythenorth>how did I break 2nd CC in Horse? :o
12:38<frosch123>removed the flag to enable it?
12:38<frosch123>added the cb for recoloring?
12:39<andythenorth>added the cb for recolouring
12:39<andythenorth>maybe the flag got mangled
12:40<frosch123>if the cb is used, the flag likely does not matter
12:40<frosch123>only the cb results
12:43<andythenorth>I get 2cc as blue only
12:43<frosch123>so the cb returns 2cc_base or something
12:43<andythenorth>maybe
12:43<andythenorth>recolour sprite might be wrong
12:44<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/revisions/4d46d66fbfd7/entry/src/templates/graphics_switches.pynml#L10
12:45<frosch123> 1: return base_sprite_2cc; <!--! no change --> <- that sets both to dark blue
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12:46<frosch123>make it the same as the line below, but swap 1 and 2
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12:53<supermop_home>maybe i'll electrify all this freight
12:53<frosch123>to prevent theft?
12:54<supermop_home>ha
12:54<supermop_home>theft by low station rating
12:54<supermop_home>because i can't fit the slow steam freight into the schedule for the mainline
12:56<andythenorth>ok 2CC works now frosch :)
12:56<andythenorth>but 1CC is broken :)
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12:56<andythenorth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pm6jcnxmb/smodfl/raw
12:57<andythenorth>looks to me like the compile has failed
12:57<andythenorth>nml is wrong
12:59<frosch123>switch looks fine to me
13:02<andythenorth>EBKC
13:02<andythenorth>compiling FIRS :P
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13:17<supermop_home>hmm where to cascade all these old tiny buses
13:22<andythenorth>starting a steeltown game is very hard
13:22<andythenorth>everything connects, so if the map is short of some industry types, game will be fail
13:26<supermop_home>andythenorth I usually end up missing some big harbor type industry in firs games
13:26<andythenorth>yup
13:26<andythenorth>you have to have water > 40% in my experience
13:27<supermop_home>sometimes i try to roll with it and make enough to buy one
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13:45<Samu>i had a bug with town cargo acceptance :(
13:48<Samu>it's so easy to get confused, i'm dealing with 4 behaviours, each one can be on and off now
13:49<Samu>alright, think this is now working
13:49<Samu>gonna post v2
13:49<Samu>oh wait, i'm not posting, need to add descriptions
13:49<Samu>looking for an expert in english
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13:50<Samu>Allow industry stations to accept cargo of other sources: {STRING2}
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13:54<Samu>When disabled, stations attached to industries, such as Oil Rigs, won't accept cargo that is not accepted by the industry this station serves.
13:56<Samu>When disabled, stations attached to industries, such as Oil Rigs, won't accept cargo that is not accepted by the industry this station is attached to.
13:56<Samu>better?
13:56<Samu>these stations are attached to?
13:57<Samu>I'm terrible at describing stuff, a little help plz
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14:41<@peter1138>That's terrible wording, indeed.
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15:20<Samu>english help needed! -> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pbjapmzyk
15:20<Samu>thx in advance, dinner time, be back later
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15:39<andythenorth>yeah no
15:39<andythenorth>liquids terminal needs another input
15:39<V453000>izn't?
15:40<andythenorth>such
15:41*V453000 is just peacefully proceeding to make a train model :>
15:41<andythenorth>winning
15:50<andythenorth>what can soda ash be converted to?
15:51<Samu>bacl
15:52<Samu>meh no replies
15:55<andythenorth>caustic soda?
15:57<frosch123>is that related to metal?
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15:57<andythenorth>no
15:57<andythenorth>it's a free cargo
15:58<andythenorth>produced from soda ash and limestone
15:58<andythenorth>makes caustic soda and quicklime
15:58<andythenorth>which is all very clever, but I would just make it a second cargo from soda ash mine
15:58<andythenorth>to liquids terminal
15:59<andythenorth>or some other arbitrary chemicals
16:00<andythenorth>ammonia from Haber Process?
16:00<frosch123>what about sending fmsp to liquids terminal?
16:01<frosch123>what's the fmsp level in your game? too much? too little?
16:01<andythenorth>about right
16:01<andythenorth>it only comes from slag grinding plant
16:01<frosch123>hmm, i thought it would be too much with only one destination
16:02<frosch123>does any other economy export supplies?
16:02<andythenorth>nah
16:02*andythenorth checks
16:02<frosch123>i mean most ports supply some supplies, so some economy should export them :p
16:02<andythenorth>I know :)
16:03<andythenorth>the ports aggregate :D
16:03<andythenorth>all the other cargos that get delivered to ports are combined to be supplies
16:03<frosch123>i wonder, is it possibly to turn the ports into some late-game thing
16:03<frosch123>imagine you have mines in the early game, but they never increase production
16:04<frosch123>while there are some hard to reach conditions for ports to import a ton of ore
16:04<frosch123>like, export lots of vehicles, get lots of ore
16:04<frosch123>export few things, get nothing
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16:10<andythenorth>think it would need to be designed for that gameplay
16:12<andythenorth>ports would produce zero unless delivered to?
16:20<frosch123>i just wonder how the reverse to iahc would look like
16:20<frosch123>iacc?
16:20<frosch123>iatc?
16:22<andythenorth>there has long been planned an arctic economy
16:22<andythenorth>but I never got inspired to make it :)
16:23<frosch123>but arctic is not exactly a colonial empire
16:23<frosch123>s/empire/overlord/
16:23<andythenorth>depends on your views about indigineous reinder herders
16:24<V453000>death to all
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16:28<andythenorth>hmm
16:28<andythenorth>salt from soda ash mine?
16:28<andythenorth>salt -> chemicals plant -> chemicals
16:32<Samu>FLHerne and supermop_home i posted a new version https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=77199&p=1193521#p1193521
16:33<Samu>who wants to test it out?
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16:56<andythenorth>steeltown seems to mostly be chemicals :P
16:58<supermop_home>this brickworks is located in such a way there is no natural way to branch off the mainline to bring it clay
16:58<supermop_home>may have to just use trucks
16:58<Samu>supermop_home: :(
17:03<supermop_home>https://imgur.com/a/RWCzI
17:03<supermop_home>how would you guys go about that
17:04<supermop_home>truck or branch line?
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17:06<frosch123>huh? there is plenty of space for a branch
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17:12<supermop_home>seems like it would look odd crossing over the other branch
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17:39<FLHerne>supermop_home: Extend the river, build some of the little squid barges
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17:39<supermop_home>FLHerne forgot to load a ship set this game
17:40<FLHerne>Meh, adding vehicle sets is usually safe-ish
17:40<FLHerne>Oh, maybe not if you have existing default ships that would be disabled
17:41<FLHerne>Crossing the branch would be ugly, yes
17:43<supermop_home>might build a yard just past west edge of the screenshot
17:43<FLHerne>You could move the existing branch to the north, so it crosses the lake and joins the mainline between the claypit and Yen Dung
17:43<supermop_home>hmm yeah
17:44<supermop_home>I was thinking make the branch cross the river further south, so it swings by the brickyard
17:45<FLHerne>https://i.imgur.com/M0hMbBa.png or so
17:45<FLHerne>Oops
17:45<FLHerne>http://www.flherne.uk/files/supermop_map.png rather
17:46<FLHerne>What's to the left?
17:46<FLHerne>Does the branch have to join the mainline where it does, or could it go via the brickworks and then at a nicer angle?
17:48<FLHerne>http://www.flherne.uk/files/supermop_map_2.png ?
17:53<supermop_home>and then dump clay and sand in a yard off the edge to the west, where another train will take it down the branch
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17:54<supermop_home>coal comes from the branch to a steelmill to the west, so a realignment would allow some coal to get dropped at the brick yard
18:04<supermop_home>too complex maybe: https://imgur.com/a/CsgVM
18:05<supermop_home>black yard is coal dump, industrial tram can take some to the brick works
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18:06<Samu>what you guys talkin about
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18:07<supermop_home>cement plant to NW, so clay train can take somecoal back to the clay pit, then it can head onward with some clay that way
18:07<supermop_home>Samu how to connect more industries to my network in a way that doesn't look too ugly
18:10<supermop_home>FLHerne the only problem with your diagram is I hate having the loading station on the other side of the line from the industry
18:11<supermop_home>this line only sees one passenger train ever 36 days or so, so I can cross the mainline at freight speed somewhere
18:17<FLHerne>supermop_home: You can use those ISR conveyor-tunnel-entrances to make it look good
18:17<FLHerne>(or just add a crossing)
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18:39<Samu>i'm bored
18:39<ST2>grab some tea ^^
18:39<Samu>oh hey
18:40-!-Guest7674 is now known as Prof_Frink
18:40<supermop_home>this stupi sheep farm/oil refinery is really in the way of a nice potential junction
18:40<Samu>i grabbed some savegame of your giant 2k map server
18:40-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7679
18:40<Samu>loaded in my patched openttd, and screwed all ships
18:40<ST2>Samu: you could asked for it ^^
18:41<Samu>mission successful
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18:41<Samu>just kidding
18:41<ST2>well, what you do on SP... no one will complain xD
18:42<Samu>having it as settings was a really good idea
18:42<Samu>supermop_home: don't you wanna test?
18:42<supermop_home>test what?
18:43<Samu>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=77199
18:43<Samu>i uploaded v2
18:43<supermop_home>I am technically testing my RVs right now
18:43<Samu>:)
18:43<supermop_home>just distracted my trying to make some nice train junctions
18:43<supermop_home>but ill take a look
18:44<supermop_home>I don't know how to compile
18:44<ST2>Samu: waterborne cargos are quite tricky - had you tested it with FIRS, for example
18:44<Samu>uhm... well, part of firs, yes, i'm not familiar at all with it
18:45<Samu>there were waterborne industries in it that don't have stations
18:45<ST2>exactly
18:45<supermop_home>I don't think that is true
18:45<Samu>that made me rethink how I was checking those stations
18:46<supermop_home>fishing grounds and dredging site both have station
18:46<Samu>v2 is supposedly handling it better
18:46<Samu>those industries / stations
18:47<Samu>it seems that 2 consecutive IndustryGfx == 24
18:47<Samu>dictacte whether the industry will attach a station
18:48<Samu>or not
18:48<Samu>it's a bit tricky
18:50<Samu>when the station is built, the IndustryGfx information is lost
18:51<Samu>on one of the tiles
18:52<Samu>i'm not 100% sure my new method is fool-proof, but should be okay
18:53<Samu>so, plz throw newgrfs at it, see if it fails or misbehaves, supermop_home, once you have tijme
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19:13<Samu>my most downloaded patch https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=76081&p=1184335&hilit=patch#p1184335
19:13<Samu>i'm surprised it's related to AIs
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19:51<Samu>crap, i found a bug... cargodist is ruining it
19:51<Speedy>sleep over and try again
19:55<Samu>actually, i'm confused
19:56<Samu>cargodist is so confusing i dont even know if it's bugged
19:58<Samu>doesn't seem bugged
19:58<Samu>seems to be how cargodist works :o
19:59<Samu>I am, on the fly, changing cargo acceptance of a station. Cargodist seems to cope with it
20:01<Samu>damn, who's a cargodist expert here? i'm confused... sucks when I don't know how things work
20:10<Samu>Attachment: acceptance and suppliance behaviours of waterborne cargo v2 r27929.patch [19.3 KiB] Not downloaded yet
20:10<Samu>*insert very sad face*
20:11<supermop_home>more people might try a binary
20:11<Samu>i can only do windows exes
20:12<Samu>ok, i'll make an .exe if u promise u download it lol
20:21<Samu>are u on windows, supermop_home, i can make a x64.exe, but if you're on linux, ubuntus or crap like that, I can't do anything
20:23<ST2>Samu: Debian or Ubuntu (debian based) are a bit away from Windows - and by that I mean Windows still have to work hard to get there
20:23<ST2>and I say that as a user of the three
20:25<Samu>supermop_home: are u home?
20:25<Samu>:(
20:25<Samu>i gotta go sleep real soon
20:27<supermop_home>I use windows
20:27<supermop_home>I am about to go watch stranger things with my wife tho
20:27<Samu>oki, let me create this bin package thingg
20:27<ST2>supermop_home: which windows?
20:27<supermop_home>if you post a binary I'll give it a shot later
20:28<supermop_home>ST2 10
20:28<ST2>or you got too in the 1709 update doom?
20:28<ST2>W10, which version?
20:29<supermop_home>idk, I don't have that latest fall update yet though
20:29<ST2>ALT+R -->> winver
20:30<ST2>not ALT
20:30<supermop_home>ok where to take all these building materials
20:30<ST2><window>+R
20:31<ST2>gives something like this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/x33o4ewpft3xlc3/Screenshot%202017-10-29%2001.30.54.png?dl=0
20:33<ST2>but I guess Samu didn't get the update too
20:34<ST2>or he would be complaining about it also xD
20:36<ST2>note: the previous screenshot it's from this laptop; my home computer has same W10 update
20:37<ST2>lucky me, my work computer is W7 \o/
20:37<Samu>mine is 1703
20:38<ST2>so, no panning issues
20:38<Samu>got the bin ready, uploading it to forum, brb
20:39<ST2>actually I forced the updates on my W10 machines - after I saw the panning issue complaints
20:39<ST2>as you know, I want to have happy players ^^
20:39<Samu>there https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=77199&p=1193521#p1193521
20:41<Samu>it's an entire folder with subfolders, there are added strings, so they need to work together
20:42<ST2>Samu: what's the goal with those changes?
20:42-!-Guest7683 is now known as Prof_Frink
20:42<Samu>the goal is to ruin players who transport oil from oil rigs with trains
20:42-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7687
20:43<Samu>and have it included in 1.8.0 or so I hope
20:43<Samu>lel
20:43<ST2>Samu: and why you would want that?
20:43<Samu>because devs didn't do anything about it
20:43<ST2>as you said, you played on BTPro K1 server
20:44<ST2>had you seen any player taking oil from rigs with trains?
20:44<Samu>yeah, your implementation is fugly
20:44<ST2>I know
20:44<ST2>but, due the code limitations to keep it compatible... what was possible
20:45<Samu>I know what you mean, make it network compatible with 1.7.1
20:45<Samu>must have been a tough task
20:46<ST2>well, what we changed... it's compatible
20:46<ST2>guess you joined using a 1.7.1 client
20:46<Samu>yes, of course
20:47<ST2>it's only a function that checks distances between stations and industries
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20:47<ST2>made it as a setting, to work among all our servers and spreading allowed
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20:48<Samu>oops, closed window
20:48<ST2>it's only a function that checks distances between stations and industries
20:48<ST2>ofc, the code that it uses, depends of more functions for it
20:49<ST2>it's similar functions used for town protection (like in CB's)
20:50<ST2>but that's server specific's
20:50<ST2>I see no point on ruin people getting oil from rigs with trains - unless you come with an awesome idea and code
20:51<Samu>it's a setting
20:51<Samu>4 settings actually
20:51<Samu>there's some degree of customizability now
20:52<Samu>each behaviour can be enabled or disabled, on the fly
20:54<Samu>"accept non-industry cargo at industry station", "accept industry cargo at non-industry station", "supply non-industry cargo at industry station" and "supply industry cargo at non-industry station".
20:55<Samu>i'm off to bed
20:55<Samu>take care, all
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---Logclosed Sun Oct 29 00:00:00 2017