Back to Home / #openttd / 2017 / 10 / Prev Day | Next Day
#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-10-31

---Logopened Tue Oct 31 00:00:02 2017
00:26<Flygon>Oh man.
00:26<Flygon>I used that Wiki when I was new.
00:26<Flygon>And it's outdatedness, uh, bit.
00:28<newgrfquestion>Flygon: whats a better wiki to use for openttd
00:30<Flygon>I don't think one exists.
00:31<Flygon>I mostly got my way through trial and error, asking the IRC for help, and asking the forums for help.
00:31<@planetmaker>newgrfquestion, the wiki is written and updated by people like you...
00:32<@planetmaker>Besides that the wiki is moderately accurate
00:33<@planetmaker>NewGRF parameters for a server are no different than for a single player game
00:33-!-Guest7877 is now known as Prof_Frink
00:33-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7879
00:42-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [] has joined #openttd
00:42-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 is "purple" on #openttd
00:48-!-HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:10-!-Supercheese [] has joined #openttd
01:10-!-Supercheese is "Supercheese" on #openttd #openttdcoop.devzone
01:11-!-Cubey [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:20-!-mindlesstux [~mindlesst@2001:19f0:5:238:5400:ff:fe30:7f01] has quit [Quit: ZNC -]
01:21-!-mindlesstux [~mindlesst@2001:19f0:5:238:5400:ff:fe30:7f01] has joined #openttd
01:21-!-mindlesstux is "ZNC -" on #virtualization #virt @#tuz-oftc @#tuz #qemu #osm #openttd #openconnect #observium #linode #ipv6 #OpenRailwayMap
01:34-!-Guest7879 is now known as Prof_Frink
01:34-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7882
01:41-!-newgrfquestion [~newgrfque@] has left #openttd []
01:54-!-PressureLine [] has joined #openttd
01:54-!-PressureLine is "realname" on #openttd
01:54<PressureLine>Happy Halloween!
02:05-!-Arveen [] has joined #openttd
02:05-!-Arveen is "realname" on #openttdcoop #openttd
02:10-!-Arveen2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:21-!-Supercheese [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:21-!-Supercheese [] has joined #openttd
02:21-!-Supercheese is "Supercheese" on #openttd #openttdcoop.devzone
02:35-!-Guest7882 is now known as Prof_Frink
02:35-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
02:35-!-andythenorth is "andythenorth" on #openttd
02:35-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7884
02:37-!-andythenorth [] has quit []
02:42-!-gelignite [] has joined #openttd
02:42-!-gelignite is "gelignite" on #openttd #openttdcoop.devzone
02:56-!-tokai|noir [] has joined #openttd
02:56-!-tokai|noir is "Christian Rosentreter" on #openttd
02:56-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ
03:03-!-tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:31-!-Progman [] has joined #openttd
03:31-!-Progman is "Peter Henschel" on #openttdcoop #openttd
03:36-!-Guest7884 is now known as Prof_Frink
03:36-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7888
04:01-!-Supercheese [] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes]
04:02-!-zerm [~home@2601:280:5a80:6866:e5c0:7122:c3cb:7cb2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:12<PressureLine>made a crazy 'OpenTTD Calculations spreadsheet'
04:29<PressureLine>but the real question is, is 1100kW cutting it too close for a load that needs 1070kW to hit 80kph on level ground?
04:34-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
04:34-!-andythenorth is "andythenorth" on #openttd
04:37-!-Guest7888 is now known as Prof_Frink
04:37-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7889
04:40-!-JacobD88 [] has joined #openttd
04:40-!-JacobD88 is "JacobD88" on #openttd.notice #openttd
04:40<PressureLine>well. it appears to be
04:41<PressureLine>also: andy, it appears your trams really don't like driving on the RHS of the road :(
04:54-!-JacobD88 [] has quit [Quit: JacobD88]
05:06<andythenorth>PressureLine: I've seen this in HEQS too
05:06<andythenorth>have you confirmed it's definitely the RHS that has problems, not both sides?
05:10<PressureLine>fine for left hand driving
05:11<PressureLine>not fine for right hand driving
05:12<andythenorth>so it's not just me then
05:14*andythenorth bbl
05:14-!-andythenorth [] has left #openttd []
05:18-!-PressureLine [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
05:24-!-TheMask96 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:24-!-ToffeeYogurtPots [] has joined #openttd
05:24-!-ToffeeYogurtPots is "realname" on #debian-hurd #debian-offtopic #apparmor #tor #tor-project #tor-onions #tor-offtopic #i2p #https-everywhere #privacybadger #openttd #privacytech #oftc
05:29-!-TheMask96 [] has joined #openttd
05:29-!-TheMask96 is "Martijn Zweistra" on @#altcontrol #openttd #openttd.notice
05:33-!-efess [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
05:34-!-efess [] has joined #openttd
05:34-!-efess is "afsd" on #openttdcoop #openttd #/r/openttd
05:38-!-Guest7889 is now known as Prof_Frink
05:38-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7898
06:05-!-supermop_ [] has joined #openttd
06:05-!-supermop_ is "A CIRC user" on #openttd #tycoon
06:08-!-supermop_ [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:09-!-supermop_ [~supermop@] has joined #openttd
06:09-!-supermop_ is "A CIRC user" on #openttd #tycoon
06:11-!-supermop [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:15-!-supermop [] has joined #openttd
06:15-!-supermop is "A CIRC user" on #openttd #tycoon
06:17-!-Breckett [] has joined #openttd
06:17-!-Breckett is "Breckett" on #openttd
06:21-!-supermop_ [~supermop@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:39-!-Guest7898 is now known as Prof_Frink
06:39-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7908
06:40-!-Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
06:40-!-Wolf01 is "Wolf01" on #openttd
06:43-!-ToffeeYogurtPots [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:53-!-ToffeeYogurtPots [] has joined #openttd
06:53-!-ToffeeYogurtPots is "realname" on #debian-hurd #debian-offtopic #apparmor #tor #tor-project #tor-onions #tor-offtopic #i2p #https-everywhere #privacybadger #openttd #privacytech #oftc
06:57-!-Samu [] has joined #openttd
06:57-!-Samu is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #openttd
06:58<Samu>good day
07:06-!-ToffeeYogurtPots [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
07:06-!-ToffeeYogurtPots [] has joined #openttd
07:06-!-ToffeeYogurtPots is "realname" on #debian-hurd #debian-offtopic #apparmor #tor #tor-project #tor-onions #tor-offtopic #i2p #https-everywhere #privacybadger #openttd #privacytech #oftc
07:40-!-Guest7908 is now known as Prof_Frink
07:40-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7913
07:48-!-JacobD88 [] has joined #openttd
07:48-!-JacobD88 is "JacobD88" on #openttd.notice #openttd
08:03-!-Flygon [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:14-!-nick213 is "realname" on #oftc #qemu #tor
08:14-!-nick213 [~nick213@2406:3003:2005:1a5:1c99:abf0:b1c1:ae72] has joined #openttd
08:15-!-roidal [] has joined #openttd
08:15-!-roidal is "roland" on #openttd
08:16-!-Breckett [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:41-!-Guest7913 is now known as Prof_Frink
08:41-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7919
08:44-!-roidal [] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1]
08:44-!-Breckett [] has joined #openttd
08:44-!-Breckett is "Breckett" on #openttd
08:48-!-Breckett [] has quit []
08:48-!-Breckett [] has joined #openttd
08:48-!-Breckett is "Breckett" on #openttd
08:50-!-smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@] has joined #openttd
08:50-!-smoke_fumus is "Crapping wizard" on #qemu #oolite #openttd
08:59-!-Breckett_ [] has joined #openttd
08:59-!-Breckett_ is "Breckett" on #openttd
08:59-!-Gja [] has joined #openttd
08:59-!-Gja is "Martin" on #bcache #openttd
09:03-!-JacobD88 [] has quit [Quit: JacobD88]
09:06-!-Breckett [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:06-!-Breckett_ [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
09:06-!-Breckett [] has joined #openttd
09:06-!-Breckett is "Breckett" on #openttd
09:24-!-Breckett [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
09:34<supermop>hows it going in italy?
09:34<Wolf01>Same shit
09:35<Wolf01>Today I signed the job contract, 3 months at 500€/month... I need 800€/month at least :(
09:36<__ln__>how many hours per week is that?
09:36<__ln__>how many minutes do italian hours have
09:37<Wolf01>The usual 60
09:37<supermop>that does seems low
09:37<supermop>what is the minimum wage in italy?
09:38<Wolf01>Ahaha, I think the minimum does not exists
09:38<Wolf01>Depends to the collective contract, but if you aren't covered by that then shit
09:40<Wolf01>At least I won't be subject to overtime
09:40<supermop>there isn't a national minimum>
09:40<supermop>not even some basic EU mandated one?
09:41<Wolf01>Maybe, but they do what they want anyway
09:41<supermop>federal minimum here is 7.25
09:41<supermop>of course NY state is higher
09:42<supermop>but the issue here is more that people often only get scheduled for like 20-30 hours a week when they are at those levels, and then need to get 2nd or 3rd jobs
09:43<supermop>of course if you are on salary, there is basically no limit on how long you work
09:43<Wolf01>But this should be a transition period, then I'll be hired (I hope) like others and get ~1200€/month
09:43-!-Guest7919 is now known as Prof_Frink
09:43<__ln__>~1200€/month for what kind of work?
09:44<Eddi|zuHause>that seems really low
09:44<Wolf01>And that's really the minimum
09:44-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7924
09:44<supermop>1200/month seems very low for developer
09:44<__ln__>indeed really low
09:44<supermop>that is below poverty line in US
09:45<supermop>Wolf01: you should move to the US, as bad as it is here
09:45<Wolf01>They use the trade collective contract which has low salary but 14 paydays (2 of them are semestral and about 60% of the base salary)
09:45<supermop>in NYC developer salary is about 10x that
09:46<supermop>well not quite 10x
09:46<supermop>but could be
09:46<SpComb>that doesn't sound like a living wage in the EU
09:46<Wolf01>If they were metalworkers (hardware maintainers usually are) I would get 1500€/month but 13 paydays
09:47<Wolf01>Eh, I know, that's why I'm not able to move out from home... at least not on my own
09:48<supermop>if you are under 30, maybe you should go to Aus. on working holiday, and do 6 month contract jobs
09:48<supermop>then maybe make a connection who will pay to sponsor you to go there after
09:48<Wolf01>I'm over 30, and that's why I didn't find other jobs here too
09:49<Wolf01>Also, the shitty thing is that the company is at 40km from home and I'll spend 260-300€ on fuel every month doing basic calculations
09:50<Wolf01>This mean: I won't get anywhere with 200€/month
09:52<__ln__>are you good enough developer to get hired somewhere abroad? if you start looking for opportunities farther away...
09:55<Wolf01>No, I don't think I'm good enough, maybe for prototyping yes, I know many things and about everything from hardware to software, networks, plc, but all academic or for personal culture... also I won't move out by myself
09:55<__ln__>people do move out by themselves
09:56<V453000>I find it dumb to talk about money across countries, in czech republic 1500 euros per month wouldn't be a golden mine but it would be fine for you
09:56<V453000>for example
09:56<V453000>of course NYC salaries will be higher but with it every other expense
09:57<Wolf01>Yes, but they are right, <800€ here you are below the poverty threshold
09:57<Eddi|zuHause>i make quite a bit more than that, and still think i'm rather at the lower end
09:58<V453000>idk how do italy prices compare to eddiland
09:58<Wolf01>And to be able to rent a room you need at least 350€ for a single room with the WC in the kitchen
09:59<Wolf01>And you have to pay for the light, phone, gas too
09:59<__ln__>who needs light or phone
10:00<Wolf01>Fucking internet when you aren't at work and you can't afford the pub
10:00-!-Gja [] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (]
10:02-!-Gustavo6046 [~Gustavo60@] has joined #openttd
10:02-!-Gustavo6046 is "I open with sandwich!" on #openttd #ohnx @#gusbot #doom64ex
10:03-!-Gustavo6046 [~Gustavo60@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:03-!-Gustavo6046 [~Gustavo60@] has joined #openttd
10:03-!-Gustavo6046 is "I open with sandwich!" on #openttd #ohnx @#gusbot #doom64ex
10:09<supermop>V453000: i would have assumed that italy would be slightly cheaper than non-NYC US, but not that much cheaper
10:09<supermop>when my grandmother died, we sold her house for 20000USD, which was pretty decent price for the area
10:09<__ln__>my impression is that italy certainly isn't at the czech republic level of cheap
10:10<supermop>i would have assumed that no where in Italy could you buy a nice 3 bedroom home for 20000
10:10<V453000>I was just trying to point out that it's all relative :)
10:11<Wolf01>Lol, here a house cost from 70k to 250k€, and the rents are really high too
10:11<__ln__>when i visited prague and plzen, i was like "what do i do with all this cash when nothing costs nearly nothing"
10:12<__ln__>and i hadn't reserved particularly much cash
10:13<Wolf01>I found that Japan was cheaper than Shitaly in many many things, also more comfortable for commuting
10:17<Wolf01>For example we stayed at a ryokan in Kyoto, my friend "ok, this time you have seen how a ryokan is, next time a capsule hotel" my answer "wtf that was like a 5 star hotel in Italy, and we paid only for a 3 star one, ryokan for the life"
10:26<supermop>if you factor in the meals at a ryokan, it really is a great deal
10:27<Wolf01>Meal, room service, rooms too
10:27<supermop>best two meals i had on my last japan trip were the dinner and breakfast at the ryokan
10:27<supermop>onsen on site
10:27<supermop>at this one
10:34<Samu>hi there
10:34<Samu>why is that this function DeliverGoodsToIndustry
10:34<Samu>can deal with town cargo as well
10:34<Samu>but be named like that
10:36<Samu>oh i see
10:36<Samu>a town is an invalid industry
10:38<Samu>so if there's an industry accepting passengers and a house accepting passengers
10:38<Samu>the industry will be checked first
10:39<Samu>should be the opposite, to make sense, but yeah, this is not real life
10:42-!-frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
10:42-!-frosch123 is "frosch" on #openttdcoop.devzone #openttd
10:43<V453000>some guy is asking me "what file to modify to increase max number of vehicles" ... apparently he is compiling his own openttd, or has someone compile it for him
10:43<V453000>is there some simple answer I could pass to him?
10:44<frosch123>vehicles as in "articulated parts" or vehicles as in "max 5000 trains per company"?
10:44<V453000>max 5000 RVs per company
10:44<frosch123>settings.ini probably
10:44<V453000>he already has a version which allows 20 000 apparently
10:45<frosch123>src/table/settings.ini or something
10:45<Wolf01>Just look for 20000 and change it :D
10:45-!-Guest7924 is now known as Prof_Frink
10:45<V453000>Wolf01: :P
10:45<V453000>his cpu can reportedly somehow manage 20k
10:45<V453000>'it's a bit slower but eh' he says
10:45-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7927
10:46<V453000>frosch123: what's the maximum articulated amount? :D
10:46<Samu>i tried 65536 vehicles or so before
10:46<Wolf01>So he wants 50k maybe, it's already slow and it will be twice as slow, but who cares? :D
10:46<V453000>frosch123: thank you :)
10:46<frosch123>V453000: i think all articulated parts of all consists of all companies may not exceed 24 million or so
10:47<Samu>you have to edit the GUI thing to accept 5 digits
10:47<Samu>or you can only type 4
10:47<V453000>:D oh
10:47<V453000>that sounds pretty damn hard to reach
10:47<V453000>even if you use 1/8 articulation and have 5 tile trains
10:47<frosch123>hmm, it's way lower
10:47<frosch123>@calc 0xFF000
10:47<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 1044480
10:48<frosch123>one million :)
10:48<Samu>@calc 65536 * 15
10:48<@DorpsGek>Samu: 983040
10:48<frosch123>prevously it was 64k, which was reached by someone
10:49<V453000>sounds pretty nuts
10:55-!-Gustavo6046 [~Gustavo60@] has quit [Quit: yay]
10:55<Samu>peter1138: here's a but for u
10:55<Samu>void AddCargoDelivery(CargoID cargo_type, CompanyID company, uint32 amount, SourceType src_type, SourceID src, const Station *st)
10:55-!-Gustavo6046 [~Gustavo60@] has joined #openttd
10:55-!-Gustavo6046 is "I open with sandwich!" on #openttd #ohnx @#gusbot #doom64ex
10:56<V453000>frosch123: LiukSK thanks you :P
10:56<V453000>he's sending slug army your way
10:57<Samu>teh cargo monitor code doesn't do the same as the DeliverGoodsToIndustry
10:59<Samu>if delivergoodstoindustry does 10 to industry A and 0 to industry B, cargo monitor will do 10 to industry a and 10 to industry B
11:11-!-Compu [] has quit [Quit:]
11:15-!-Compu [] has joined #openttd
11:15-!-Compu is "Compu" on #help #openttd #openttdcoop.stable #openttdcoop #/r/openttd
11:21-!-cHawk [~chawk@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:22-!-Gja [] has joined #openttd
11:22-!-Gja is "Martin" on #bcache #openttd
11:24-!-Borg [] has joined #openttd
11:24-!-Borg is "Unknown" on #openttd
11:24<Borg>dont you think that multihead trains (those w/ 2 locos, A i B) are broken in OpenTTD?
11:25<Borg>only for cases where loco can carry pasanger cars, they should never be actually splitted
11:27<Samu>multi engines?
11:29-!-sla_ro|master [] has joined #openttd
11:29-!-sla_ro|master is "slamaster" on @#sla #openttd #love
11:30-!-cHawk [~chawk@] has joined #openttd
11:30-!-cHawk is "realname" on #openttd #tor-project #tor
11:30<frosch123>that kind of stuff is controlled by newgrf
11:30<frosch123>if you don't like the behaviour, use a different newgrf
11:34<Eddi|zuHause>Borg: some newgrfs forbid you to put anything other than passenger cars on them
11:37-!-TheMask96 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:39-!-TheMask96 [] has joined #openttd
11:39-!-TheMask96 is "Martijn Zweistra" on @#altcontrol #openttd #openttd.notice
11:39<frosch123>what to do when your grf takes 14 minutes to compile?
11:41<Samu>buy more cores
11:42<Samu>supermop: i just converted 4 settings into 1
11:42<V453000>how many sprites now frosch123?
11:43<Samu>STR_CONFIG_SETTING_SHARE_INDUSTRY_STATION_CARGO :Share neutral stations cargoes with company stations: {STRING2} STR_CONFIG_SETTING_SHARE_INDUSTRY_STATION_CARGO_HELPTEXT :When enabled, any cargo accepted or supplied on industry stations may also be accepted or supplied on company owned stations. When disabled, the cargoes accepted or supplied on neutral stations is only for the industry it's attached to
11:43<Samu>is it clear, or needs english fixes?
11:43<frosch123>12k to 800k depending how you count
11:43<V453000>:D 800 thousand sprites?
11:43<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like CETS
11:46-!-Guest7927 is now known as Prof_Frink
11:46-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7931
11:48<frosch123>wtf, this time python crashed
11:50-!-Gja [] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (]
11:51<V453000>btw what is the part which makes a difference in an item between wagon and engine?
11:51<V453000>no refittable cargo classes/labels?
11:52<V453000>no, cabooses and shit still are wagons, right?
11:52<frosch123>iirc it's "power"
11:52<V453000>oh, interesting
11:53<V453000>thanks :) I completely forgot that and from looking at nuts I couldn't eyeball it fast enough :D
11:55<Eddi|zuHause>sounds also like CETS
11:56<frosch123>it was no oom or similar
11:56<frosch123>i only marginally changed some pixels
11:57<frosch123>mem usage is actually quite low
11:57<frosch123>the nml is simple, just very long
11:57<frosch123>flat structure, no deep links or similar
11:57<frosch123>also it crashed at the very end when writing the output
11:57<frosch123>disk is not full :p
11:59<Eddi|zuHause>problem with CETS usually was ply not working well with large files
11:59<Eddi|zuHause>maybe that is better in python3
12:01<frosch123>hmm acutally memusage increases a lot during "generating actions"
12:01-!-Cubey [] has joined #openttd
12:01-!-Cubey is "Jaybar" on #openttd
12:04-!-newgrfquestion [~newgrfque@] has joined #openttd
12:04-!-newgrfquestion is "newgrfquestion" on #openttd
12:05<newgrfquestion>is there a way to tell a train to split the cargo at 2 destinations or more?
12:05<newgrfquestion>so if a train is hauling multiple cars of oil, how do I tell it to split that between 2 stations or more?
12:05<Progman>is cargodist an option
12:06<newgrfquestion>no the server doesnt have that enabled
12:06<newgrfquestion>do i need another NewGRF to get that to work?
12:06-!-Wormnest [] has joined #openttd
12:06-!-Wormnest is "Wormnest" on #openttd
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>no, newgrf has no influence on that
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>but you can unload at an intermediate station, and have two smaller trains load
12:17<Borg>frosch123: ahh.. yeah, I use plain orginal gfx..
12:20<newgrfquestion>Eddi|zuHause: but theres no way to just tell a large train to split it?
12:21<newgrfquestion>well thats disappointing
12:22<newgrfquestion>maybe a possible feature in a future version?
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>there used to be a patch
12:23<Eddi|zuHause>but the general consensus is to not add more complicated order stuff before the order gui gets cleaned up
12:23<Cubey>Cargodist already exists anyway
12:28<newgrfquestion>there going to change the gui soon?
12:29<LordAro>define "soon"
12:30-!-Stimrol [] has joined #openttd
12:30-!-Stimrol is "Stimrol" on #openttd
12:32<Samu>i'm looking for english expert once again. I reduced the number of settings from 4 to 1, merged all the behaviours into just 1 setting, how do i title it?
12:33-!-zerm [~home@2601:280:5a80:6866:1d96:d39d:caf9:21bb] has joined #openttd
12:33-!-zerm is "realname" on #openttd
12:34<Samu>Allow water-based industries cargoes on company stations?
12:35<LordAro>that sounds fine
12:35<Samu>oki, ty
12:36<debdog>not knowing what's going on, but it might be "Allow water-based industrie's cargoes on company stations"
12:37<Samu>debdog:it's this
12:38-!-ToffeeYogurtPots [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:39<LordAro>"industries'", if anything
12:40-!-newgrfquestion [~newgrfque@] has left #openttd []
12:41<LordAro>(note the trailing ')
12:41<Samu>i see
12:41-!-ToffeeYogurtPots [] has joined #openttd
12:41-!-ToffeeYogurtPots is "realname" on #oftc #privacytech #openttd #privacybadger #https-everywhere #i2p #tor-offtopic #tor-onions #tor-project #tor #apparmor #debian-offtopic #debian-hurd
12:41<Samu>Allow water-based industries' cargoes on company stations: {STRING2}
12:41<Samu>and now, how to describe it, HELPTEXT
12:47-!-Guest7931 is now known as Prof_Frink
12:47<Samu>"When enabled, any cargo acceptance or suppliance of an industry with an attached station (such as Oil Rigs) may also be accepted or supplied on company owned stations."
12:47-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7936
12:47<Samu>here comes hell
12:48<Samu>When disabled, insert hellish description
12:55-!-zerm [~home@2601:280:5a80:6866:1d96:d39d:caf9:21bb] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:55<Samu>"When disabled, industries with an attached station may only serve the industries they're paired with, and any company stations nearby won't be able to serve them."
12:59<Samu>Company owned stations may serve water-based industries
12:59<Samu>Allow company owned stations to serve water industries
13:00<Samu>seems more right to the point
13:04<Samu>STR_CONFIG_SETTING_SHARE_INDUSTRY_STATION_CARGO_HELPTEXT :When enabled, serving industries with attached stations (such as Oil Rigs) may also be served on company owned stations when built nearby. When disabled, industries with an attached station may only serve the industries they're paired with, and any company stations nearby won't be able to serve them
13:05<Samu>if built nearby
13:07<Samu>is it serving, or servicing?
13:20<Samu>supermop: 1 setting for all 4 behaviours, u there?
13:48-!-Guest7936 is now known as Prof_Frink
13:48-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7939
13:54-!-cHawk [~chawk@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:13-!-nick213 [~nick213@2406:3003:2005:1a5:1c99:abf0:b1c1:ae72] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:13-!-cHawk [~chawk@] has joined #openttd
14:13-!-cHawk is "realname" on #tor #tor-project #openttd
14:24<Cubey>Samu hey that looks pretty good, "Allow company owned stations to serve water industries" is direct and suitably descriptive
14:25<Cubey>The "water industries" term is a bit novel as we discussed yesterday, but since it is explained in the helptext with the helpful example of oil rigs, it is fine
14:26<Cubey>I would clean up the helptext a little, maybe "When enabled, industries with attached stations (such as Oil Rigs) may also be served by company owned stations built nearby." for the first sentence
14:27<Cubey>"When disabled, these industries may only be served by their attached stations, and any nearby company owned stations won't be able to serve them."
14:27<Cubey>For the second sentence
14:27<Samu>thx, i'm taking note
14:28<Cubey>When I first saw this yesterday, it was not clear to me what the purpose of the patch was. Now i think it is pretty self-explanatory, as it should be
14:29-!-glx [] has joined #openttd
14:29-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
14:29-!-glx is "Loïc GUILLOUX" on +#openttd
14:29<Samu>it kind of feels bad removing stuff that was already done
14:29<Samu>but it simplifies
14:31<Cubey>Yeah it's like editing in writing
14:32<Cubey>Sometimes trimming the fat is the best way to improve the whole, even though it feels like erasing work you've already done
14:33<Samu>STR_CONFIG_SETTING_SERVE_WATER_INDUSTRIES_HELPTEXT :When enabled, industries with attached stations (such as Oil Rigs) may also be served by company owned stations built nearby. When disabled, these industries may only be served by their attached stations, and any nearby company stations won't be able to serve them
14:33<Samu>STR_CONFIG_SETTING_SERVE_WATER_INDUSTRIES :Allow company owned stations to serve water industries: {STRING2}
14:34<Cubey>I wonder if you should just carry over the "industries with attached stations" terminology from the helptext over to the main string
14:35<Cubey>However others might disagree if they see "water industries" as an established shorthand for that
14:35<Samu>yes, there's still some size left before horizontal scrolling
14:36<Cubey>I worry a little bit about people misunderstanding "attached stations" to mean something like "stations placed directly adjacent to the industry"
14:36<Samu>sometimes I call them "neutral stations"
14:37<Cubey>Both are descriptive yet somewhat problematic
14:38<Cubey>So I guess it just comes down to the helptext to cover the ambiguity
14:39<Samu>i've been adding comments in the code, and damn, it's really hard to explain everything, feels like I'm writing a book just for a line of code
14:39<Samu> /* Oil rig cargo is served by none other than Oil Rig stations, unless the setting is enabled */ if (on_water && !IsOilRigTile(st->xy) && !_settings_game.station.serve_water_industries) continue;
14:39<Samu>this one is short, but i got some big ones
14:40<Samu> /* Special case when there's more than one Oil Rig. Cargo served to Oil Rig station #1 comes only from Oil Rig #1 and not from any other Oil Rig */ if (on_water && IsOilRigTile(st->xy) && source_type == ST_INDUSTRY && !IsStationIndustryPair(st, source_id) && !_settings_game.station.serve_water_industries) continue;
14:41<Samu> /* The station accepting the cargo is a neutral station (station 1) belonging to an industry (industry 1), * but there may be other neutral stations nearby (station n) belonging to their respective industries (industry n). * Is the station accepting the cargo (station 1) a part of the industry it's attached to (industry 1)? */
14:42<Samu>if (HasIndustryStation(ind) && IsOilRigTile(st->xy) && !IsStationIndustryPair(st, ind->index) && !_settings_game.station.serve_water_industries) continue;
14:44<Samu>i'm not uploading v4 yet, because i dunno what to do when the base code is also bugged
14:46<Samu>CargoMonitor.cpp AddCargoDelivery
14:46<Samu>line 121
14:48<Samu>when it deals with industry delivery, it does not match the behaviour of DeliverGoodsToIndustry on economy.cpp
14:48<Samu>the monitorizing is broken
14:49-!-Guest7939 is now known as Prof_Frink
14:49-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7943
14:50<Samu>are u a dev Cubey
14:51<Samu>peter1138: u still away?
14:51<Samu>wanted to report this bug before I proceed with my own changes
14:54-!-Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:59<Samu>well anyway, thx cubey
15:00<Samu>guess i'm posting v4 anyway
15:09-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:18-!-cHawk [~chawk@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:18-!-cHawk [~chawk@] has joined #openttd
15:18-!-cHawk is "realname" on #tor #tor-project #openttd
15:20<Wolf01><Samu> i'm not uploading v4 yet, because i dunno what to do when the base code is also bugged <- fix the base code in a separate patch
15:33-!-cHawk [~chawk@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:37<Samu>damn it, why me? :(
15:37<Samu>i fix it in a way, then 1.8.0 or so comes out and it's fixed in another way, and rips my code :(
15:40<Samu>and usually you fix it better than me
15:41-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
15:41-!-andythenorth is "andythenorth" on #openttd
15:41<Samu>hi andythenorth
15:43<andythenorth>is chlorine heavy industry enough? o_O
15:45<frosch123>you can combine glass with some serious acids
15:47<frosch123>glass + hydrofluoric acid -> goods
15:48<frosch123>also works with steel and copper
15:48<frosch123>though those use way less serious stuff than hydrofluoric acid
15:50-!-Guest7943 is now known as Prof_Frink
15:50-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7944
15:52<andythenorth>I am going to add some badass chemicals cluster
15:52<frosch123>chemicals and acids would also work with paper
15:53<frosch123>both in paper production, and in making printing plates
15:53-!-zerm [~home@2601:280:5a80:6866:3c2a:51e3:23be:9193] has joined #openttd
15:53-!-zerm is "realname" on #openttd
15:53<frosch123>wood + chlor -> paper, steel + acid -> printing plate, paper + printing plate -> goods
15:56<frosch123>hmm, no, printing plates actually use aluminum
15:56<frosch123>so, drop that :)
15:59<andythenorth>aluminium is possible
15:59<andythenorth>but seems too modern
15:59<andythenorth>even though it's not :P
15:59<andythenorth>salt -> chlorine, caustic sod
15:59<frosch123>yeah, so mechanical printing plate, no photo-plates :)
15:59<andythenorth>caustic soda -> aluminium plant :P
16:00<andythenorth>Arctic Basic has sulphuric acid -> paper mill btw
16:00<andythenorth>generic 'chemicals' is less interesting than more detailed ones
16:01<frosch123>yeah, hydrofluoric acid does hardly sound dangerous :p
16:01<frosch123>it has "hydro" in it :)
16:04-!-oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
16:04-!-oskari89 is "Oskari Kvist" on #openttd
16:13-!-smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium]
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>and flour is also not dangerous at all
16:33<andythenorth>flour kills
16:35-!-Borg [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>debdog: i know, that was half of the joke :p
16:38<debdog>hehe, soryy, not yet used to the humor in here
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>(the other half being that "flour" and "fluor" are vastly different things)
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>(and the third half is that "hydro", as in water, is the cause for like 90% of the damage caused by natural disasters)
16:44<frosch123>also, water is de-hydrating
16:51-!-Guest7944 is now known as Prof_Frink
16:51-!-Progman [] has joined #openttd
16:51-!-Progman is "Peter Henschel" on #openttdcoop #openttd
16:51-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7947
17:03<andythenorth>supermop: too shiny fro Steeltown?
17:03<supermop>andythenorth: i've often wondered that
17:04<supermop>i am too young to have ever seen non-shiny oilr refineries though
17:04<andythenorth>I can do oil -> refinery, or use the tank farm as a source
17:04<supermop>so i don't know if a dark one would look odd
17:04<andythenorth>I never thought oil refinery fits in steeltown
17:04<supermop>isn't tank farm equally shiny?
17:04<supermop>we have them in the rust belt
17:04<andythenorth>yes, but it doesn't matter somehow that it's shiny
17:05<supermop>not exactly sure why, but they exist at some distance from most large american cities, even outside of oil producing regions
17:05<frosch123> <- picture of old things also don't tell you how they looked when new
17:05<frosch123>but i guess tanks should not be white
17:06<supermop>i guess with fracking most of the rust belt is technically an oil producing region now
17:06<supermop>agree with frosch123 - it's the tanks than make it look modern
17:06<supermop>haha what is with the chlorine content marketing
17:07<andythenorth>weird eh?
17:07<supermop>espescially because consumers are rarely in a position to make a decision about buying chlorine
17:08*andythenorth has chlorine
17:08<supermop>if you have a pool, you don't really have a choice
17:08<andythenorth>for hot tub
17:08<supermop>andythenorth: the choice though is buy chlorine or lose the tub
17:08<supermop>not buy chlorine or something else
17:08<andythenorth>cargo label for caustic soda. NaOH?
17:08<andythenorth>there is bromine alternative
17:08<andythenorth>or getting diseases
17:08<andythenorth>both valid options
17:09<supermop>i think your hot tub will clog up with algae first
17:09<andythenorth>nah, there is separate algaecide
17:09<andythenorth>there is a thing called hot tub ear
17:09<supermop>pool might not notice it going bad until you get some amoeba eating your brain
17:09<andythenorth>which breeds nicely at 39 degrees
17:10<andythenorth>so NAOH, or CAUS?
17:10<andythenorth>or LYE_
17:10<andythenorth>LYE_ is best
17:13<V453000>I see a flexible cargo system is more than a requirement for a train set which is hoping to cope with andy's ideas :D
17:14<supermop>hmm bad day to be a cyclist here
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: that is an almost impossible task :p
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: just imagine you're MB, and you released a popular set 12 years ago, and made some halfbaked inflexible cargo addon 5 years ago
17:16<frosch123>andythenorth: SOAP ?
17:16<V453000>imagining failed
17:23<andythenorth>frosch123: SOAP tempting
17:23<andythenorth>might be quite...aggressive at cleaning
17:23*andythenorth will use it
17:24<andythenorth>or CAUS
17:24-!-sla_ro|master [] has quit []
17:24<andythenorth>there is soda ash already, which makes me think lye is better
17:26<frosch123>soda lye
17:26<+glx>I think vehicles should just be designed to carry a kind of cargo but not an explicit cargo
17:27<+glx>like liquid cargo
17:27<frosch123>if soda ash is SASH, then sody lye should be SLYE
17:27<frosch123>glx: V drew sprites for 100 cargos or so
17:28<+glx>even cargo not imagined by andy yet ?
17:28<andythenorth>glx: interesting idea, you should circulate a newsletter ;)
17:28<andythenorth>or maybe a forum post
17:29<frosch123>[22:28] <glx> even cargo not imagined by andy yet ? <- V453000: up for the challenge? :p
17:29<frosch123>predict what andy adds next
17:30<frosch123>i go for "whey"
17:33<andythenorth>interesting idea
17:33<andythenorth>I hadn't considered that
17:33<andythenorth>also spiders?
17:34<andythenorth>what is whey?
17:35<andythenorth>also, label for Chlorine?
17:36<frosch123>andythenorth: whey would go into the chemical economy
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>vowels are just decoration anyway
17:37<andythenorth>frosch123 is it not better in the Cheese economy? :o
17:37<frosch123>it's a side-product of cheese, and input to chemicals
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>it's the greeks who started this vowel business, everyone else was happy with just writing down the consonants
17:38<+glx>yeah rmss was so easy
17:39<Samu>sorry about that :(
17:44<Samu>there is a bug with AddCargoDelivery, wish someone else than me could fix it
17:47<andythenorth>ok I am running out of room for cargos now in this steel-punk economy :)
17:47<andythenorth>historically, it has been harder to add cargos to FIRS than remove them :D
17:48<andythenorth>does the game actually work if there's no goods?
17:52-!-Guest7947 is now known as Prof_Frink
17:52-!-oskari89 [] has quit []
17:52-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7949
17:54<Samu>here's the bug in action:
17:55<Samu>busybee tells me to send wood to Rinfingpool Bridge Sawmill
17:55<Samu>but it's Getborough Market Sawmill that is taking it
17:55<Samu>and yet it still counts towards the goal
17:55<Samu>the bug is not on busibee
17:56<ST2>getting a solution, that's another story :S
17:56<Samu>but on CargoMonitor
17:56<Samu>the trunk, openttd itself
17:56<andythenorth>electrical machines cargo, or goods?
17:56<ST2>never explored to there ^^
17:57<Samu>the monitoring function is not mimicing the behaviour of cargo delivery
17:58<frosch123>andythenorth: the game may work better without goods :p
17:58<frosch123>you can replace goods with vehicles
17:59<andythenorth>also I can't fit in the full salt -> chlorine + ethylene -> pvc compounds + copper -> wires -> electrical machines chain :P
17:59<Samu>looks like im gonna fix it myself
17:59<Samu>lel, while i'm at it, why not
18:00*andythenorth wonders how houses break if there's no goods
18:00<andythenorth>also food
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: there's no reason why the game wouldn't work without goods, but you probably should add TE_GOODS to some cargo, because citybuilder scripts will probably require one
18:02<Samu>that bug you reported st2, seems to be about industry index
18:02<andythenorth>probably I should just try it
18:02<Samu>the iron ore probably existed, then closed, and a new industry popups taking the index that used to belong to the iron ore
18:02<ST2>most can be be adjusted - no TE_GOODS won't matter on CB's - since all cargo types can be used for it, no need for TownEffect
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>ST2: i was using "citybuilder" as a generic term here, not for any specific script which may happen to be called citybuilder
18:03<ST2>ok, then, I recall my words then ^^
18:04<Samu>it seems yet again related to cargomonitoring logs once again
18:04<Samu>i must investigate how industry indexes are generated
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>so, i played through one game of civ6 in this (long) weekend, in 30 hours
18:05<andythenorth>hmm chlorine plant -> hydrochloric acid -> steel finishing
18:05<ST2>Eddi|zuHause: I guess that both of us need to split on what a CityBuilder and a TownBuilder, since OpenTTD have different behaviours for both ^^
18:07<Eddi|zuHause>this would be the right time to start a new one, but i'm out of weekend
18:07*andythenorth can't really fit a chlorine chain in this economy eh :P
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: make a chlorine economy? :p
18:08<andythenorth>I tested a chemicals economy, but meh
18:08<andythenorth>lots of cargos in tank wagons
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>what's wrong with that?
18:09<andythenorth>limited cargo graphics
18:09<andythenorth>I could revisit it
18:09<andythenorth>probably just needs a twist
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>a farming-focused economy probably could deal with lots of chemicals
18:10<Samu>there can only be 65535 industries in the world, sounds small for a 4kx4k map
18:11<andythenorth>that's the problem ass backwards samu :)
18:11<andythenorth>4kx4k map is stupid :)
18:12<frosch123>andythenorth: do you produce chloring from salt?
18:12<Samu>index from 0 to 65534, while 65535 is used for INVALID_INDUSTRY
18:13<andythenorth>frosch123: I've pushed, waiting for bundles to update docs
18:16<zerm>i seriously need to get better at making junctions
18:16<zerm>like seriously
18:19-!-tokai|noir [] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o]
18:20-!-tokai [] has joined #openttd
18:20-!-tokai is "Christian Rosentreter" on #openttd
18:20-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
18:20<Samu>actually 64000
18:21<Samu>i have no idea how this works
18:21<Samu>but this is the thing that attributes indexes to industries
18:22<andythenorth>chlorine chain stops dead :)
18:22<andythenorth>probably won't work
18:22<andythenorth>aim was pvc -> wire, maybe vehicle parts
18:23<andythenorth>and I wanted to get Pipe back in :P
18:25<Samu>i don't think i can fix this myself, seems complicated enough for me
18:26<Samu>it requires creating a temporary log, recording the amount is delivered, and to which industry
18:27<Samu>so that the other function read from it
18:27-!-HerzogDeXtEr [] has joined #openttd
18:27-!-HerzogDeXtEr is "purple" on #openttd
18:28<Samu>i need DeliverGoodsToIndustry to communicate with AddCargoDelivery
18:28<Samu>they're both called by DeliverGoods
18:28<frosch123>you only add the chemical plant for the liquids terminal?
18:29<Samu>wait, let me post a link to the code
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>chlorine->cleaning materials->supermarket?
18:30<frosch123>you could add wood and paper
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>(has nothing to do with steel, though)
18:31<andythenorth>I think paper is kind of arctic
18:31<frosch123>paper can be used instead of plastic in the metal workshop
18:31<andythenorth>maybe chlorine doesn't fit
18:31<Samu>line 1107 is DeliverGoodsToIndustry
18:32<Samu>then later on, in the same function, at line 1130, it reports the data to the monitor
18:32<andythenorth>unless I cut out zinc, copper
18:32<frosch123>wood can also be processed into engsup, and it can go to assembly plant
18:32<frosch123>and to glass works
18:33<frosch123>i think adding wood/paper is a nicer option than adding oil
18:33<andythenorth>you're pushing the 1910 trucks :)
18:33<andythenorth>oil is always boring :P
18:34<ST2>amen xD
18:34<Samu>line 1092, my bad
18:34<andythenorth>I'd need ethylene or acetylene to go with chlorine
18:34<andythenorth>then PVC beads
18:34<andythenorth>at least 2 more cargos, I have 1 slot left :P
18:34<Samu>and line 1115, jesus i'm so drunk
18:35<andythenorth>ok tomorrow is a new idea ;)
18:35*andythenorth bed
18:35<andythenorth>frosch123: wood + coal tar from coke plant = ensp :P
18:36<andythenorth>but already both outputs are used
18:36<andythenorth>constraints are good, but sometimes the 2 outputs limit at industries is a tough constraint
18:36<frosch123>i thought of wood for mines
18:36<frosch123>to build tunnel support
18:36<andythenorth>yeah, that's in extreme
18:37<andythenorth>wood + chemicals = pit props
18:37<andythenorth>coke plant would provide exact chemicals :P
18:37<andythenorth>but I need the sulphur for tyres
18:38<andythenorth>maybe that's adjustable
18:38<andythenorth>but bed
18:38-!-andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
18:39<Samu>hmm, there's a static SmallIndustryList _cargo_delivery_destinations;
18:39<Samu>it keeps track of industries receiving cargos
18:39<Samu>how to make use of this information for the monitor?
18:43-!-Stimrol [] has quit [Quit: ZNC -]
18:46-!-gelignite [] has quit [Quit: I have always found that mercy bears richer fruits than strict justice.]
18:49-!-Wormnest [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:53-!-Guest7949 is now known as Prof_Frink
18:53-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7953
19:01-!-Arveen2 [] has joined #openttd
19:01-!-Arveen2 is "realname" on #openttdcoop #openttd
19:03-!-frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
19:06-!-Arveen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:13-!-ricus [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:40-!-Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:44<Samu>st2 u there? or glx or someone
19:45<Samu>I got this line here
19:45<Samu>static SmallIndustryList _cargo_delivery_destinations;
19:45<Samu>it's on economy.cpp
19:45<Samu>but i need cargomonitor.cpp to access _cargo_delivery_destinations
19:45<Samu>i can't seem to do that
19:48-!-FLHerne [] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!]
19:54-!-Guest7953 is now known as Prof_Frink
19:54-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7957
20:04<Samu>Severity Code Description Project File Line Suppression State Error C2065 '_cargo_delivery_destinations': undeclared identifier openttd D:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\cargomonitor.cpp 157
20:07<Samu>i don't know how to declare it :(
20:07<Samu>i'm a noob in regards to declaring stuff around
20:15<Samu>pff :(
20:18-!-mindlesstux [~mindlesst@2001:19f0:5:238:5400:ff:fe30:7f01] has quit [Quit: ZNC -]
20:18-!-Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
20:19-!-mindlesstux [~mindlesst@2001:19f0:5:238:5400:ff:fe30:7f01] has joined #openttd
20:19-!-mindlesstux is "ZNC -" on #virtualization #virt @#tuz-oftc @#tuz #qemu #osm #openttd #openconnect #observium #linode #ipv6 #OpenRailwayMap
20:23-!-PressurePhone [] has joined #openttd
20:23-!-PressurePhone is "OFTC WebIRC Client" on #openttd
20:26<Samu>I did it! by other means, without having to declare
20:28-!-PressurePhone [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:50-!-Gustavo6046 [~Gustavo60@] has quit [Quit: yay]
20:53-!-zerm [~home@2601:280:5a80:6866:3c2a:51e3:23be:9193] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:54<Samu>ST2: - this seems to fix it
20:55-!-Guest7957 is now known as Prof_Frink
20:55-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7961
20:56<ST2>Samu: I'm on the middle of a couple players blocking on our servers and till now 2 permbans - no time for it now ^^
20:56<Samu>im so sleepy, made so many wording mistake
20:56<Samu>alright, i got to go though
20:56<Samu>take care
20:57-!-Samu [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
21:06-!-HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:56-!-Guest7961 is now known as Prof_Frink
21:56-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7963
22:57-!-Guest7963 is now known as Prof_Frink
22:57-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7967
23:58-!-Guest7967 is now known as Prof_Frink
23:58-!-Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7972
---Logclosed Wed Nov 01 00:00:04 2017