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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-11-01

---Logopened Wed Nov 01 00:00:04 2017
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03:17<andythenorth>hmm
03:20<andythenorth>3 outputs for industries? o_O
03:32<V453000>8?
03:34<andythenorth>5 too many
03:34<andythenorth>also design
03:35<andythenorth>can haz ideas
03:35<andythenorth>just need to break reality a bit
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03:44<V453000>I was thinking about an industry set where you would have a power plant and the power plant would be powering nearby industries
03:45<andythenorth>considered that before
03:45<andythenorth>many times
03:45<V453000>you could make various cargoes for power and to get good profits you would have to split power plants apart, distributing cargo between them
03:45<V453000>but the thing is that I think it would generally lead to 2 clusters
03:46<V453000>unless you add rules that only certain industries can group together
03:46<andythenorth>it's ok if that's the design :P
03:46<V453000>or stuff like 2 industries per power plant
03:48<andythenorth>so can drop goods and food from steeltown?
03:48<andythenorth>want moar cargos
03:50<V453000>I guess?
03:50<V453000>you have vehicles kind of thing right?
03:50<V453000>that's basically fancier goods
03:50<andythenorth>fancy
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04:05<PressureLine>*luxury vehicles*
04:05<PressureLine>even fancier goods!
04:07<PressureLine>i keep looking @ ECS and FIRS
04:07<PressureLine>but just thinking "What I really want is IOre->Steel->Goods chain in Arctic"
04:10<andythenorth>try ogfx+ industries
04:11<andythenorth>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=54187&sid=479f51122972263e3689734d5841610b
04:13<PressureLine>yup
04:13<PressureLine>found it.
04:13<PressureLine>but... much prefer the TTD sprites :/
04:13<PressureLine>or is it not dependant on the ogfx sprites?
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04:28<V453000>it uses ogfx sprites
04:28<V453000>only way to distribute it under gpl
04:32<PressureLine>yeah
04:35<PressureLine>I could probably hack something together. but it just doesnt bother me that much
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05:14<PressureLine>https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/turbine.png
05:14<PressureLine>windmills do not work that way!
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05:50<Wolf01>Moin
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06:25<Wolf01>Cats.. can't decide if in or out
06:48<juzza1>why isn't this working on the cf? https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/make-nml-juzza1/18/console
06:48<juzza1>it's not cloning the repo or anything, vs last working build: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/make-nml-juzza1/15/console
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07:09<@peter1138>It's sensible, it's not touching hg :p
07:25<@planetmaker>hm...
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08:30<Samu>hello
08:32<Samu>@logs
08:32<@DorpsGek>Samu: https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd
08:35<Samu>fix my bug, peter1138 https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6633
08:35<Samu>plzzz
08:42<@peter1138>no
08:44<Samu>:(
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09:02<Samu>peter1138: sorry, my fix is bugged :( damn sorry
09:05<Samu>i can't use (*ip)->incoming_cargo_waiting[cargo_index]
09:07<Samu>DeliverGoodsToIndustry updates incoming_cargo_waiting, from 0 to 5, then 5 to 10, then 10 to 15
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09:07<Samu>AddCargoDelivery was updating 0 to 5, then 5 to 15, then 15 to 30... i was counting it wrong
09:07<Samu>my bad
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09:19<andythenorth>yo
09:22<supermop>yo
09:22<supermop>https://www.ft.com/content/96417fb4-9f16-11e7-8cd4-932067fbf946
09:22<supermop>steel town-ish
09:22<andythenorth>can't read it, paywall
09:22<andythenorth>Detroit though?
09:24<supermop>saginaw
09:25<supermop>ft is only news i pay for
09:25<supermop>wife pays for nyt but i don't have her log in
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09:55<andythenorth>eh
09:55<andythenorth>might be close to winning
09:55<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown
09:55<andythenorth>supermop: ^
09:55<andythenorth>it's steeltown, with added chemicals :P
09:55<supermop>"now with more carcinogens!"
09:56<andythenorth>look at all the cargos in the second column
09:56<andythenorth>max delivery insanity
09:56<andythenorth>it's going to be really hard to play
09:56<andythenorth>which is a goal
09:57<supermop>looks good
10:02<andythenorth>sufficiently Becher + Becher?
10:02<andythenorth>https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=industrial+landscapes+becher&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiLlO2NxZ3XAhUHDxoKHTvxCncQ_AUICigB&biw=1436&bih=781
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10:14<supermop>force greyscale pallet on sprites
10:16<andythenorth>do it in the blitter?
10:21<andythenorth>the late game cargos need some work
10:21<andythenorth>and the ports
10:21<andythenorth>might need a metals terminal
10:21<andythenorth>and ENSP is way too hard to get
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10:22<supermop>i wonder if a black and white base set would be playable
10:23<andythenorth>that heads towards where BRIX started
10:23<supermop>or if it wouldn't be able to hook people psychologically
10:23<supermop>opposite of TTO
10:24<supermop>whole 'use a grey background to break smartphone compulsion' thing
10:24<supermop>thing is, i can look at a becher photo for very extended time -
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10:25<supermop>i think it has more to do with contrast and detail than color
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10:27<supermop>i am reminded of this work zephyris did: http://calculatedimages.blogspot.com/2014/12/forgotten-futures-new-york.html
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10:32<supermop>i need to take some IR photos of decorative gourds
10:32<supermop>to make invites for fall cocktail party
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11:10<@Alberth>o/
11:13<Samu>Alberth: help! https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6633
11:13<Samu>you're my only hope :P
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11:14<@Alberth>as in?
11:15<Samu>cargo monitor is broken
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11:17<@Alberth>I'd be surprised, as it hooks directly into the delivery handling code afaik
11:17<Samu>the problem is arising from here: DeliverGoods in economy.cpp
11:17<@Alberth>"then sent a train delivering wood to both Sawmills" <-- that won't work
11:17<@Alberth>in unpatched openttd at least
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11:21<Samu>it's DeliverGoodsToIndustry doing one thing vs AddCargoDelivery doing it in another way
11:21<Samu>they don't always match
11:22<Samu>they're both called from DeliverGoods
11:24<@Alberth>wouldn't it be the bug this mismatch then?
11:25<Samu>DeliverGoodsToIndustry can find 2 near Sawmills
11:25<Samu>the first one gets the cargo
11:26<Samu>wait, i fail at explaining
11:27<Samu>it's just that AddCargoDelivery works with the amount, without caring which Sawmill actualyl got it
11:36<Samu>sorry for my english
11:38<Samu>DeliverGoodsToIndustry found industry index 76 , the Sawmill on the right, delivered 5 cargo there
11:40<Samu>AddCargoDelivery found industry index 2, the Sawmill on the left, adds 5 cargo to the monitor
11:41<Samu>I'm failing to come up with words explaining why this happens
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11:46<@Alberth>I need some tea and food first
11:47<Samu>oki
12:02<Samu>it's clearer now. CargoMonitorMap::iterator iter = _cargo_deliveries.find(num); this contains a list of industries BusyBee is monitoring
12:03<Samu>it is monitorizing Sawmill with index 2
12:03<Samu>however
12:03<Samu> for (const Industry * const *ip = st->industries_near.Begin(); ip != st->industries_near.End(); ip++)
12:04<Samu>st->industries_near lists the industries near the station, and both index 2 and index 76 are there
12:05<Samu>the iterator is only interested in the industry index 2
12:06<Samu>it finds it, then adds the amount delivered to it, wrongly
12:06<Samu>it was industry with index 76 that received it
12:08<@Alberth>do you have a save game?
12:08<@Alberth>a simple test worked as expected
12:08<Samu>what it should do was deliver an amount of 0
12:09<Samu>don't have a handy savegame though, i used a patched openttd
12:09<Samu>will try to recreate
12:10<Samu>unless you can hack the savegame and load it by force?
12:10<Samu>savegame version was upped :(
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12:12<@Alberth>wouldn't matter, as it doesn't proof it can be created in unpatched openttd, which is a pre-condition for all bugs
12:12<Samu>ok i'm creating a scenario for this
12:13<@Alberth>probably make a copy as close to what you had gives the best chance
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12:27<Samu>ok, attached https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6633
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12:33<Samu>i changed iter->second += (*ip)->incoming_cargo_waiting[cargo_index]
12:33<Samu>to iter->second = (*ip)->incoming_cargo_waiting[cargo_index]
12:34<Samu>+= to = in my patch, but i'm not sure it's correct to look at incoming_cargo_waiting
12:35<@Alberth>https://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/ok.png this counts as "working as expected" I think
12:37<Samu>hmm it shouldn't be like that
12:37<Samu>have you seen DeliverGoodsToIndustry
12:38<@Alberth>not recently
12:38<Samu>the closest sawmill gets the unloaded cargo
12:38<Samu>and it won't iterate anymore
12:38<Samu>the other sawmill gets 0
12:39<@Alberth>yes, it always delivers to 1 industry
12:43<Samu>cargomonitor searches from the list of near industries, the one that matches what's being monitorized
12:44<Samu>the one far away is in it, and the amount is added
12:44<Samu>wrongly
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12:50<@Alberth>o/
12:51<@Alberth>where does that haoppen?
12:52<frosch123>hoi
12:53<Samu>economy.cpp
12:53<Samu>DeliverGood
12:53<Samu>oops DeliverGoods
12:53<Samu>sec,i post a link
12:54<@Alberth>have it already
12:55<Samu>https://hg.openttd.org/trunk.hg/file/688d1dc200af/src/economy.cpp#l1071
12:56<Samu>line 1092 - DeliverGoodsToIndustry, then line 1115 - AddCargoDelivery
12:58<@Alberth>ok, fair enough, looks fuzzy at least
12:59<@Alberth>You also read the note?
12:59<@Alberth>cargomonitor 145 * Note that delivery in the right area is sufficient to prevent trouble with neighbouring industries or houses.
13:00<@Alberth>although I don't remember the specific reason for that
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13:03<Samu>not sure what it meant
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13:37<@Alberth>it means what you observed, delivering to a near-enough station is sufficient
13:38<@Alberth>not sure why that solution was chosen
13:38<@Alberth>maybe for houses you cannot find which town actually gets the cargo
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13:41<@Alberth>ie you need several houses to get to 8/8, and they're not all from the same town
13:41<@Alberth>don't know if that can actually happen
13:42<Samu>i think it can
13:43<Samu>i could take a look maybe
13:43<Samu>see how houses handle cargo acceptance
13:43<Samu>brb
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13:45<Samu>i was working with passengers acceptance cargo yesterday
13:45<Samu>oil rig vs town, to see which one would actually accept, it's the industry that accepts it first
13:46<Samu>i haven't tried town vs town acceptance though
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14:09<Samu>Alberth: What does BusyBee do when the industry announces closure. It can happen if I'm not delivering cargo to it
14:10<Samu>talking about the 2 sawmills situation
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14:12<@Alberth>it should retract the offer
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14:13<Samu>but BusyBee believes i'm delivering cargo
14:13<Samu>and yet it closes
14:13<@Alberth>I had one report where it fails to do that, but we couldn't reproduce that
14:13<@Alberth>closure and delivering cargo are not related
14:14<@Alberth>you can deliver right up to final closure
14:14<@Alberth>ie the industry is leading, BB can't do anything about it
14:20<Samu>houses from town 1 and houses from town 2 added together will make the station accept passengers
14:20<Samu>the station belongs to a town though, that would be the town that gets the cargo
14:20<Samu>st->town->received[cs->town_effect].new_act += accepted;
14:21<Samu>doesn't look like it matters which house really accepts it, just st->town
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14:26<andythenorth>o/
14:27<supermop>having trouble coming up with ideas for generative gourd modelling
14:27<andythenorth>pinterest? o_O
14:27<andythenorth>pinterest is a scourge
14:29<supermop>thinking of a grasshopper model to make some kind of low-poly yayoi kusama thing
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14:32<Samu>Alberth: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/7496
14:32<Samu>that seems to be about how indexes are attributed to industries
14:32<Samu>IndustryPool _industry_pool("Industry"); INSTANTIATE_POOL_METHODS(Industry)
14:33<Samu>I have no idea what Pools mean
14:34<Samu>when i look at pool_func.hpp, i just dunno what the crap happens there
14:35<andythenorth>frosch123: chart got interesting http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown
14:35<andythenorth>haven't play tested yet
14:35<andythenorth>might suck :)
14:37<V453000>looks pretty glorious I must say
14:37<andythenorth>I couldn't fit caustic soda in :P
14:37<andythenorth>disappointing
14:37<andythenorth>also I didn't do 5 kinds of steel :P
14:39<V453000>looks like every primary can produce ENSP?
14:39<V453000>good
14:39<V453000>and not in a trivial pattern, looks very nice
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14:39<V453000>shame there is no vehicle set for all the unique cargoes :P
14:40<andythenorth>shame
14:40<andythenorth>dunno about the ENSP
14:40<andythenorth>producing at the end of the chain is tedious
14:40<V453000>I like how you call a farm trading post :P
14:40<andythenorth>all the work to get ENSP, then what do you get? More ENSP
14:40<andythenorth>V453000: nice touch by frosch123 that farm
14:40<Samu>is that Engineering Supplies?
14:41<V453000>haha
14:41<V453000>good stuff
14:41<V453000>I should add recolour sprites to NUTS for some of those cargoes
14:41<V453000>but eh
14:42<V453000>rather make new set
14:42<andythenorth>new
14:42<andythenorth>is better
14:42<andythenorth>automated
14:42<V453000>ye
14:42<andythenorth>all the things
14:42<@Alberth>Samu: everything is being saved :)
14:43<Samu>what's being saved?
14:43<Samu>all industries that have ever existed?
14:44<Samu>it seems to reuse indexes of deceased industries
14:44<Samu>don't think it keeps track of everything
14:57<frosch123>V453000: http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/css_ad.mp4 <- WTF, it's done!
14:58<V453000>OMFG
14:58<V453000>ABANDON ALL PLANS
14:58<V453000>THIS.\
14:58<V453000>that's awesome :D
14:58<frosch123>guess the grf file size :p
14:58<V453000>how many articulated consists does it require?
14:58<V453000>how many sprites?
14:58<V453000>what size?
14:59<V453000>500MB?
14:59<frosch123>880mb
14:59<V453000>XD
14:59<frosch123>it's a single 4/8 unit, which you can concatenate as long as you want
14:59<V453000>right
14:59<V453000>that's awesome
14:59<frosch123>technically it's 800k sprites (including 1x,4x,8bpp,32bpp)
14:59<frosch123>but most of them are empty and duplicates
15:00<V453000>right
15:00<andythenorth>now we can make snake
15:00<V453000>how many sprites per rotation that is?
15:00<V453000>*rotations
15:00<andythenorth>make it count how many times it passes a waypoint
15:00<andythenorth>then make it longer
15:00<andythenorth>also Toyland -> Dune replacement
15:00<Arveen>sausage train ?
15:00<frosch123>32 angles forward, 32 angles backward, 5 slopes forward, 5 slopes backward, front and tail special
15:01<frosch123>@calc 32*32*5*5
15:01<@DorpsGek>frosch123: 25600
15:01<frosch123>about 3/4 of those sprites cannot happen though
15:01<frosch123>like 180 degree turns within train
15:02<V453000>so let's say I give it 32 rotations total
15:02<V453000>will it automatically do it's magic?
15:02<frosch123>this is without any ottd modifcations
15:02<V453000>oh holy fuck
15:02<frosch123>it's the slug-model, not the long-wagons model
15:02<V453000>"just cets magic"
15:03<V453000>right
15:03<frosch123>i just wanted to know what it takes to make wagons attach seemless
15:03<V453000>so it's 4/8 sprites on 4/8 articulated units?
15:03<V453000>or?
15:03<V453000>haha yeah
15:03<frosch123>and it's omg, i have to invert all the ottd-orientation-alignment bs
15:04<frosch123>for the 8 vehicle orientations i set 8 times the same sprite, just with different offsets to reverse whatever ottd is doing with them
15:04<V453000>oh
15:04<V453000>:D
15:04<frosch123>so, one thing ottd should learn is some flag to disable the historical bs
15:05<frosch123>1/8 sprites required then
15:05<V453000>being able to define the same image with different offsets would be quite nice
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15:05<V453000>I think I needed that at some point too but don't remember when
15:07*andythenorth wonders where cabeese have gone in Horse
15:07<andythenorth>they've...disappeared in game :P
15:07<andythenorth>but are in the nml
15:07<V453000>no climate? :P
15:08<andythenorth>nah, they have climate
15:08<andythenorth>something stupid I guess
15:10<andythenorth>ok it's something to do with FIRS having 32 cargos in Steeltown
15:10<andythenorth>caboose has no cargo and no power
15:11<andythenorth>doesn't show if Steeltown is active
15:11<andythenorth>does otherwise
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15:29<argoneus>good evening train friends
15:31*V453000 is being efficient tonight
15:31<V453000>recycling sprites
15:31<V453000>ftw
15:32<argoneus>hi V :=)
15:32<argoneus>how have you been? are you still doing factorio stuff
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15:32<V453000>answer is yes
15:33<V453000>I have released BRIX a week ago
15:33<V453000>majorly freed myself
15:33<V453000>now working on new train set
15:33<V453000>atm taking detour and working on something else :D
15:33*V453000 is very good at focusing on 1 project apparently
15:34<argoneus>nice
15:35<andythenorth>so nobody used 32 cargos in a newgrf before? :o
15:35*andythenorth now has to diagnose the issue :(
15:35<@Alberth>WOOOW frosch123 :D
15:36<V453000>^
15:38<frosch123>andythenorth: you probably added a GEAR cargo or something
15:38<andythenorth>ah
15:38<andythenorth>default cargo = GOOD
15:39<andythenorth>there must be some reason for that
15:40<frosch123>livery?
15:41<andythenorth>no
15:41<supermop>V453000: i needed different offsets for same image
15:41<andythenorth>not sure
15:41<andythenorth>testing if it's nonsense
15:41<supermop>i ended up just defining the same png twice, felt dumb
15:41<frosch123>you can set different liveries for pax and cargo trains iirc
15:41<V453000>yes that's the same as I did supermop :P
15:42<supermop>rather same pngs, was bout 30
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16:01<frosch123>V453000: Alberth: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/css <- if you want to waste some diskspace for some stupidly large grf, which is at least 20 times bigger than it should be; i uploaded a compressed grf
16:03<V453000>I have seen enough for now probably :P
16:03<V453000>am making railtype atm
16:03<frosch123>more colors?
16:04<frosch123>:p
16:05<V453000>converting BRIX maglev to 32bpp PURR
16:05<V453000>with plan to reuse the templates for the glorious train set
16:05<V453000>2 birds one nut
16:05<frosch123>happy birds
16:06<Samu>@logs
16:06<@DorpsGek>Samu: https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd
16:11<Samu>about industry indexes
16:11<Samu>when an industry closes, it's index is free
16:12<Samu>if another spawns right away, it can re-use the industry that had just closed, just tested
16:13<Samu>it happens often on large maps
16:13<andythenorth>sounds like a pool
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16:14<Samu>the question was whether it could re-use the index of a just closed industry in such a short time... it can
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16:15<andythenorth>sounds like a pool
16:15*andythenorth doesn't know how IDs work in ottd
16:15<andythenorth>but in a pool, when an index is released, it's released
16:17<Samu>there was a bug report on BusyBee regarding industry indexes
16:20*andythenorth fixed Horse
16:27<V453000>ultimately?
16:27<V453000>what was the issue andythenorth ?
16:29<V453000>default goods on caboose while goods removed by economy?
16:30<andythenorth>yair
16:32<V453000>hm yeah that kind of makes sense
16:34<andythenorth>error: not enough wagon types
16:34<andythenorth>even at start of game, I have 7 bulk cargos
16:34<andythenorth>and only 3 types of wagon for them
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17:21<supermop>this is dumb: https://imgur.com/a/7Vlu3
17:22<supermop>still haven't even added a way to add bumps yet
17:25<supermop>i feel like python would be better
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18:10<V453000>is it possible for a railtype to use monorail or maglev tunnels?
18:11<V453000>default seems to be rail, and station_graphics doesn't seem to influence tunnels
18:12<V453000>guess I should instead define the tunnel_overlay
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19:03<Samu>cargodist allows some really weird stuff
19:03<Samu>i can deliver passengers from an oil rig to itself and make a profit!
19:10<Samu>i was always suspicious of something wrong happening with cargo dist
19:10<Wolf01>'night
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19:14<Samu>okay so it isn't cargodist bugged, it's something else, grrr must find out
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19:21<Samu>ah i got it
19:21<Samu>the industry itself does not require passengers, but one of the industry tiles accepts passengers
19:23<Samu>the tile is making so that passengers produced by the industry can be delivered to that tile
19:29<Samu>it seems to require 3 stations with transfers going around
19:33<Samu>actually not, just 2
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---Logclosed Thu Nov 02 00:00:05 2017