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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-11-07

---Logopened Tue Nov 07 00:00:12 2017
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01:47<PressureLine>blech
01:47<PressureLine>I just cannot get the amount of industries on a map right
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02:23<PressureLine>Setting: Industry Density: Set how many industries should be generated ***and what level should be maintained during the game***
02:25<PressureLine>if I set to LOW during world generation, but as soon as the game starts go to VERY LOW, industries will shut down, and there will be no corresponding new industry built until the 'very low' level is reached?
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06:57<__ln__>https://www.bahn.de/micro/view/schnellfahrstrecke/index.shtml
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08:15<Samu>hi
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08:42<Samu>woah, andythenorth was quite severe here: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6312?string=depot&project=1&search_name=&type%5B0%5D=&sev%5B0%5D=&pri%5B0%5D=&due%5B0%5D=&reported%5B0%5D=&cat%5B0%5D=&status%5B0%5D=open&percent%5B0%5D=&opened=&dev=&closed=&duedatefrom=&duedateto=&changedfrom=&changedto=&openedfrom=&openedto=&closedfrom=&closedto=
08:50<V453000>gg
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09:40<supermop>yo
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09:42<V453000>no yo
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10:08<@Alberth>o/
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10:43<Samu>i have a bug https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6636
10:43<Samu>1.7.1
10:43<Samu>peter1138: !!
10:43<Samu>you're the bug guy
10:44<Samu>aren't you?
10:44<@Alberth>nice bug :)
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10:56<Samu>i got a fix, but i know u guys always find troubles with my fixes
10:56<Samu>hmm do i post patch?
11:14<Samu>posted
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11:28<Samu>STR_ERROR_CAN_T_COPY_SHARE_ORDER
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13:18<Eddi|zuHause>https://mobile.twitter.com/gravislizard/status/927593460642615296
13:23<Samu>i have no idea how twitter worls
13:23<Samu>works
13:23<Samu>i see a bunch of comments, but it doesn't appear they're answers to each other, I don't get it
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13:41<Wolf01>Moin
13:42<frosch123>ciao
13:42<Wolf01>Holy shit the IDE I use is MSAccess on steroids
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13:44<Wolf01>It's a cross breed between access, vba, mysql, and gamemaker all thrown over VS2008
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13:54<Wolf01>http://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steamcommunity/public/images/clans/10546736/76c36cfd99aea502d1dffcff7dd5fd5c7e8257b2.png wow... you could fit the entire base on one of these rovers
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14:30<andythenorth>o/
14:30<Samu>damn parenthesis
14:30<Samu>hi andythenorth
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14:31<Wolf01>o/
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14:41<Samu>i found a bug when reviewing vehicle orders
14:42<Wolf01>It's a feature
14:43<Samu>nah
14:44<Samu>it's about displaying the message "aircraft has in its orders an airport whose runway is too short"
14:44<Samu>if there is only 1 airport that fits that criteria, the message shows up fine
14:44<Samu>but if there are 2
14:45<Samu>it shows another message
14:46<Samu>has an invalid station in its orders
14:46<Samu>the fix is simple
14:46<Samu>(message == INVALID_STRING_ID || message == STR_NEWS_PLANE_USES_TOO_SHORT_RUNWAY)
14:48<Samu>here, line 1802 https://hg.openttd.org/trunk.hg/file/f4cc55fdf952/src/order_cmd.cpp#l1802
14:48<Samu>peter1138: fix plz
14:49<Wolf01>Stop annoying peter plz
14:49<Samu>ok, Wolf01 fix plz
14:54<andythenorth>stop annoying Wolf01 :)
14:55<Wolf01>I think that if there are 2 short airports the double message is right, but it should tell which order (airport name)
14:56<Wolf01>You have the airport, add a param to the string with the name
14:56<andythenorth>RoadTypes :P
14:56*andythenorth playing OpenTTD
14:57<Wolf01>I want roadtypes too :(
14:59<frosch123>road slugs are way more complicated
14:59<Wolf01>http://steamcommunity.com/app/361420/discussions/0/1479857071246787675/ V453000, they are fighting for space snails and slugs, you should do something
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15:00<andythenorth>ButButButGroundTypes
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15:03<andythenorth>Can I rename it Steeltown Rocks?
15:03<andythenorth>probably makes no sense :P
15:04<andythenorth>Steeltown seems ok now, at least not crap
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15:04<frosch123>does that mean no more changes till end of week?
15:04<frosch123>or just till tomorrow?
15:06<andythenorth>I have a few more doubts
15:06<andythenorth>but I need to finish play-testing
15:07<andythenorth>I think it's at a point where more changes are potato/potato
15:10<frosch123>what economy would feature potatoes?
15:11<frosch123>soup economy?
15:12<Wolf01>I was thinking about a spooky world in place of toyland
15:13<frosch123>pumpkin + knife -> goods
15:13<frosch123>pumpkin may be a visually interesting cargo
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15:20<andythenorth>potatoes are Idaho :P
15:20<andythenorth>or Seattle :P
15:20*andythenorth sticking firmly to RL
15:22<frosch123>andythenorth: btw. increasing limit for industry output cargos seems to be kind of easy
15:22<frosch123>way easier than amount of input cargos
15:28<andythenorth>is it wise? o_O
15:28<frosch123>that's the question :)
15:28<frosch123>it's not worth the effort to implement if it won't be used
15:29<andythenorth>working within the constraints forces choices
15:29<andythenorth>but sometimes the imbalance of 3 in, 2 out makes cargo chains...hard
15:29<andythenorth>also does it look like it was ever a design choice?
15:29*andythenorth suspects CS added 2 outputs for farms, and it has been that way ever since
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15:30<andythenorth>on a purely selfish level
15:30<andythenorth>if there's 3 outputs, I'll to rework *everything* in FIRS 4 :P
15:31<andythenorth>what does V453000 think? o_O
15:32<frosch123>i think all yeti industries only have one output
15:32<frosch123>it has sets of industries which accept the same thing and produce different thigns
15:33<frosch123>no idea wheather that is part of the concept
15:35<andythenorth>I could likely patch FIRS so docs show 3 outputs
15:35*andythenorth might try in a bit
15:41<andythenorth>primarilly it would help the port-type industries
15:41<andythenorth>primarily *
15:45<andythenorth>ha also it would really mess up building stations
15:45<andythenorth>1 dropoff
15:46<andythenorth>1 pickup per cargo (to avoid flickering station sprites)
15:46<andythenorth>and each pickup serves max 2 routes, because cargodist
15:47<andythenorth>even with TL 5 that's a lot of stations to fit around an industry :D
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16:07<frosch123>why? one or two platforms per cargo are enough
16:07<frosch123>i mean number of platforms depends on total cargo amount
16:08<frosch123>hardly on how many different cargo types there are
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16:12<andythenorth>3 platforms = 3 stations
16:12<andythenorth>ach
16:12<andythenorth>3 output cargos = 3 stations :P :)
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16:13<andythenorth>and each station can only serve 2 routes
16:13<frosch123>also, if ratios of output cargos are fixed, it actually makes sense to run mixed trains
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16:15<andythenorth>assuming similar destinations?
16:15<andythenorth>o-O
16:15<andythenorth>mixed cargo pickup causes the flickering cargo-graphics at stations :)
16:15<andythenorth>I dislike it :)
16:16<frosch123>huh? how does mixing cargo affect the flickering?
16:17<andythenorth>e.g. station has goods and supplies waiting
16:17<andythenorth>sometimes more of one than other
16:17<andythenorth>so all tiles change cargo sprite
16:17<andythenorth>then back again
16:17<frosch123>[22:15] <andythenorth> assuming similar destinations? <- it's enough to pass target 1 on the way to target 2
16:17<frosch123>andythenorth: you mean if tiles can display multiple cargos?
16:17<andythenorth>yes
16:18<andythenorth>per CHIPS :)
16:18<frosch123>ach, we should probably fix the station cargo display somewhen
16:19<andythenorth>I've tried to think of a way before :)
16:19<andythenorth>round-robin tiles or something
16:19<andythenorth>I'm sure Eddi|zuHause has a suggestion or two
16:19<andythenorth>I just accepted it as an artefact of the game tbh :)
16:20<andythenorth>not everything needs fixed :)
16:21<Eddi|zuHause>hare-niemeyer :p
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16:30<V453000>andythenorth: I haz opinions?
16:30<frosch123>V453000: are industries with more than 2 output cargos interesting?
16:30<V453000>I think it could be, definitely yes
16:30<frosch123>yeti seems to always have one
16:31<V453000>depends on parameters
16:31<V453000>with tired yetis it's almost always 2
16:31<V453000>I think there was a point when the 2 was a real limiter on something
16:31<V453000>some worker yard concept with tired yetis or something, can't remember exactly
16:32<V453000>but overall being able to define 3 cargoes I think could lead to some interesting points
16:32<frosch123>anyway, origin was: input cargo limit is hard; output cargo limit can be lifted
16:34<V453000>having to deliver more things can easily be forced by making an industry chain from one to another basically :)
16:34<V453000>or similar
16:35<V453000>I guess getting more products kind of as well
16:35<frosch123>not quite
16:35<frosch123>1) single industry servicing more cargos has different space restrictions
16:36<frosch123>2) single industry producing multiple things controls the ratio of the produced cargos
16:36<V453000>yeah of course, not exactly the same
16:36<frosch123>while stockpiles are considered bad, there are no ratios for input cargos
16:37<V453000>I might have even had some YETI plan which required more extra industries because I could only have 2 cargoes per industry
16:38<V453000>would have to revisit
16:38<V453000>basically I think I wanted some things to produce recyclables as a side product
16:38<V453000>and mos of them already have cargo + tired yetis
16:39<V453000>btw can the industry production mechanism be non-linear?
16:39<frosch123>you can already define whatever function you like
16:39<V453000>aka if I would have 1 YETI mine, it would produce less in total than 2 YETI mines, assuming I deliver same amount of supplies to them in total/
16:39<V453000>right, is what I thought
16:43<frosch123>also, since andy wasn't aware either; industries within a town can communicate with each other
16:44<supermop>power
16:45<frosch123>industries could improve production if a higher percentage of industries are serviced in a town
16:46<V453000>:0
16:46<V453000>never heard of that
16:46<frosch123>supermop: yeti's worker-mechanic is essentially power, just with gameplay-impact by having to transport it
16:46<frosch123>V453000: was implemented years ago, was never used
16:47<frosch123>then was forgotten :)
16:47<V453000>interesting
16:48<V453000>well for now I will try to focus myself on trains
16:48<V453000>but one day YETI2 is definitely a good idea
16:49<V453000>the whole 128frame animation of YETI is a really dumb concept, and being more modular like FIRS is simply superior, too
16:49<V453000>there could be some base with unique shapes, but most of it should the industries should be modular
16:49<frosch123>i am currently trying to hack a draft version for long vehicles, to check at which length it gets really silly and broken in curves and on hills
16:49<V453000>haha :D
16:49<V453000>very interesting
16:49<V453000>I basically procrastinated on train set by making PURR in the last week ._.
16:50<frosch123>if a vehicle is longer than a /\ hill, the vehicle will essentially go through the hill
16:50<V453000>:D right
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16:51<frosch123>also vehicle scaling will be even more broken
16:51<V453000>you mean the distortion at vertical and side views?
16:51<frosch123>vehicles become shorter in sharp turns
16:52<frosch123>the vehicle ends follow the curves, but the connecting vehicle is the bird-distance between ends
16:52<frosch123>so the more you complete a circle in the curve, the shorter the vehicle gets
16:53<frosch123>it's the most extreme for road vehicle
16:53<frosch123>when they reverse the articulated parts pass each other next to each other
16:53<frosch123>so the vehicle shortens from any length to the distance between drive lanes :p
16:54<V453000>:D :D
16:54<V453000>sounds pretty fucked up
16:54<V453000>curious to see that :D
16:55<V453000>REVERSER SLUG: Vehicle reverses inside of the rail back and forth in a spiral.
16:56<frosch123>as long as you don't reverse by turning it inside-out
16:56<V453000>also that
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16:57<V453000>5D slug
16:57<V453000>128bpp
16:58<frosch123>be careful with higher dimensions, round things become spiky
16:58<V453000>Hi I am a reverser slug, my name is Spike
16:58<V453000>easy
17:00<frosch123>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mceaM2_zQd8 <- in case you want to deal with the math of higher-dimension spheres
17:10<supermop>is there a fst way to un-vignette an image in photoshop?
17:11<frosch123>no idea what that means, sounds like auto-crop
17:16<andythenorth>frosch123: 3 output cargos can always be done....later, eh? :)
17:17<andythenorth>presumably there's a lot of of newgrf patching?
17:19<supermop>depending on lens you use, espesically in old cameras, the edges of the photo are darker than the center. PS and other programs let you add this artificially, for like portraits
17:19<supermop>but what i want is the opposite, to even out the brightness
17:21<andythenorth>hmm mostly industry vars, only cb 37 and cb 14C
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17:22<andythenorth>but quite a number of vars
17:22<Wolf01>'night
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17:56<andythenorth>bed
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