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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-12-09

---Logopened Sat Dec 09 00:00:57 2017
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04:19<Wolf01>Moin
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08:03<drac_boy>been quite a while since I had to stop working for other reasons .. but anyway with re slowly getting back into it I realize there seem to be some things I can't figure out ... first thing is for an universal industry grf is it a max of 37 types or am I wrong?
08:03<drac_boy>(somehow the wiki doesn't seem to say anything)
08:13<frosch123>if "universal" also means ttdp, then yes 37
08:13<frosch123>same amount as original industries
08:14<drac_boy>thanks. I presume ottd-only is nearly unlimited except for user stress at trying to find anything right? ;)
08:15<frosch123>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Industries <- that lists the limits at the top
08:16<drac_boy>oh ops...I thought I already looked at action0 at night .. maybe I should had slept a bit first
08:16<drac_boy>ty :">
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08:22<drac_boy>other thing I'm curious about does the large=yes airplane thing only take effect if disaster is enabled or it always can happen anytime one way or another? (re land a big airbus at the small airport heh..)
08:22*drac_boy is inclined to think so but want to check :)
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08:30<frosch123>there is one setting to disable aircraft crashes, and there is a cheat to disable distinction between small and large
08:30<frosch123>i can't remember whether the former also implies the latter
08:32<drac_boy>hmm I'll look for that setting myself then..can't be hard :)
08:32<drac_boy>ty
08:35<drac_boy>hm well I guess thats the only two things I wasn't too sure about for now, cheers frosch
08:35*drac_boy thankfully kept a lot of my notes
08:36*drac_boy is going to have to look up any particular ottd 2017-new-features just for fun too
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08:38<drac_boy>anyway going off for a bit now .. will see if am back later on with any more 'restart' issues
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08:52<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: i think the two are completely orthogonal
08:53<Eddi|zuHause>so you can have random crashes without large aircraft crashes and the other way around
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09:55<Wolf01>andythenorth: F took back the scene, now there are artillery trains.
10:10<Wolf01>https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a3MXbv3_460s.jpg lol
10:21<Samu>what does that do?
10:21<Samu>try /catch?
10:24<Wolf01>http://www.dummies.com/store/product/Beginning-Programming-For-Dummies-4th-Edition.productCd-0470088702.html
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>i think i'm a bit beyond that phase
10:26<andythenorth>hi
10:37<frosch123>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_design_pattern#Classification_and_list <- just learn that list and train to use one of those terms in every second sentence
10:38<Wolf01>:D
10:38<Wolf01>I ahould finish my c# design patterns project
10:38<Wolf01>*shoudt
10:38<Wolf01>*should too
10:39<frosch123>the second step is to recognise haskell users, and then switching to making fun of patterns which are superfluous when using a proper language
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>most of the patterns are superfluous, because they are often about glue code that would be avoidable if one designed it properly in the first place
10:43<supermop>yo andy
10:43<supermop>found a copy of industrial landscapes at a used bookstore
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11:01<Wolf01>[16:39:51] <frosch123> the second step is to recognise haskell users, and then switching to making fun of patterns which are superfluous when using a proper language <- something which just hides the same concept to the developer?
11:02<Wolf01>I should try if I'm able to play diablo 3 while watching netflix
11:02<Wolf01>Or better, if my connection could handle it
11:04<Wolf01>Nice, not even a bit of lag
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11:49<andythenorth>supermop: winning
11:54<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: sounds like a situation that should be handled by buffering (netflix) and traffic shaping (game)
11:56<Eddi|zuHause>so the router tries to prioritize "interactive" packets (game), while netflix should buffer enough to counteract any jitter on the incoming traffic
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12:19<+michi_cc>Anyone with Windows < 10 like to test http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/maybe_fix_mouse_win10.diff ?
12:20<+michi_cc>It does fix right click scrolling on win 10 FCU and should hopefully not degrade lagging behaviour
12:21<+michi_cc>frosch123: http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/maybe_fix_mouse_win10.diff has an unrelated hunk for a commit of yours. MSVC complains that -uint might not do what you want. Was this intended or not?
12:22<frosch123>the width thing?
12:22<frosch123>it's supposed to be signed
12:24<+michi_cc>so casting first should be the "right thing", just in case there's a C compiler not using two's complement :)
12:24<andythenorth>grr
12:24<andythenorth>usually my Tanks ping is ~60 max
12:24<andythenorth>today spiking to 6000
12:25<@peter1138>michi_cc, I'll see if I can test it on my Windows 7 netbook. Might take a while, it's sloooow.
12:28<+michi_cc>peter1138: Thanks.
12:28<+michi_cc>Most interesting would also be Win 95 (for those die-hard fans :)
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12:29<@peter1138>Nothing that old. Got a VM? :p
12:31<+michi_cc>Not anymore :p
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12:42<Wolf01><andythenorth> today spiking to 6000 <- welcome to the club
12:42<andythenorth>innit :)
12:42<Wolf01>Ok, played enough diablo 3 today
12:43<@peter1138>Hmm, how do I make a playable build from VS?
12:44<Wolf01>Ha
12:44<@peter1138>I can run it from within VS but I need to copy it over to the netbook
12:46<Wolf01>Does the "publish" thing works?
12:47<+michi_cc>peter1138: Copy the bin folder + objs/x64|win32/openttd.exe
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12:52<andythenorth>I kind of want to do some FIRS
12:52<andythenorth>but eh
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13:02<@peter1138>Hmm, waiting for my netbook to install... mouse drivers... o_O
13:03<@peter1138>Still, it's slow enough to actually trigger event queueing quite easily :p
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13:04<@peter1138>Touchpad scroll seems to work fine.
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13:05*andythenorth wonders about controlling industry placement
13:05<andythenorth>more
13:05<andythenorth>dunno
13:05<@peter1138>Mouse still not done.
13:10<@peter1138>Still not done.
13:10<@peter1138>I wonder if it's *writing* the driver...
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13:19<Wolf01>It's discovering the "language" then it will write the driver and compile it
13:29<@Rubidium>well, if you can beat the best chess player in a few hours you can become a mediocre mouse device driver creator in only a few minutes, so it must be teaching itself to make a mouse driver
13:30<Wolf01>Or make a mouse driver by using the chess rules... jumps like a knight
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13:39<@peter1138>Maybe that explains the new behaviour in Win 10.
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27933 /trunk/src/lang (brazilian_portuguese.txt croatian.txt) (2017-12-09 19:45:38 +0100 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>croatian: 26 changes by UnderwaterHesus
13:45<@DorpsGek>portuguese (brazilian): 54 changes by Tucalipe
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13:54*andythenorth updates NRT fork from master
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14:03<Wolf01>Master updates from fork NRT
14:05<@peter1138>Yeah, works okay in Windows 7
14:09<+michi_cc>frosch123: Should I chance it? (Do we even have any Win95 users left?)
14:12<andythenorth>old things die
14:12*andythenorth just stopped supporting IE 8 :P
14:12<frosch123>michi_cc: if we ever get the new compile farm for c++11 running, it will drop 9x
14:13<frosch123>but what part does not work in 9x? the get-mouse-position-history part?
14:13<frosch123>can you add an #ifdef for now then? so the current farm does not cry
14:15<+michi_cc>In theory it will also work on Windows 95, nothing in there is new in any way. Win95 might just handle mouse events differently.
14:16<+michi_cc>Or to put it differently: if it fails to compile it's a MingW problem, not a Windows problem.
14:17<frosch123>nothing to worry then :)
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14:20<andythenorth>so I want to co-locate 7 types of industry, with max distance of 64 tiles between any industry instance
14:21<andythenorth>without deadlocking map
14:21<andythenorth>map gen *
14:21<andythenorth>stupid project?
14:21<+michi_cc>Well, if the farm fails tomorrow on Win95, I can at least increase the commit count :)
14:21<@DorpsGek>Commit by michi_cc :: r27934 trunk/src/window.cpp (2017-12-09 20:21:41 +0100 )
14:21<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r27900): Warning about unsigned unary minus.
14:21<@DorpsGek>Commit by michi_cc :: r27935 trunk/src/video/win32_v.cpp (2017-12-09 20:21:45 +0100 )
14:21<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6629]: [Win32] Right mouse scrolling didn't work properly with the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update.
14:21<andythenorth>oh 1 of the industry types needs to also co-locate with another type :P
14:22<frosch123>8 industries within a 64x64 area
14:22<frosch123>does that even fit? :p
14:23<frosch123>well, 128x128 technically
14:23<frosch123>hmm, no 64x,64
14:23<+michi_cc>If the mouse fix holds, it might warrant a 1.7.2 release.
14:23<frosch123>yep
14:26<@peter1138>Yes
14:27<Samu>why don't i get that windows version? 1709?
14:28<andythenorth>frosch123: got 8 in 48x48 here :)
14:28<Samu>i'm at version 1703
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14:49<andythenorth>frosch123: any further thoughts on industry output cargos? o_O
14:51<frosch123>no, want to finish other stuff first
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15:01<+glx>Samu: you can force the update if you really want it
15:05<+glx>Samu: https://www.microsoft.com/software-download/windows10
15:06<+glx>I used that on a laptop failing to install 1703 and it just ugraded from 1610 to 1709
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15:13<andythenorth>k
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15:31<Samu>so 1.7.2 is coming ?
15:31<Samu>on christmas day? new years day?
15:33<Wolf01>Never?
15:33<V453000>yo?
15:33<Wolf01>It's more expectable a 1.8 on 1st of April
15:33<+glx>or maybe 1.7.1.1 just to fix the mouse issue
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15:37<supermop>wait is the mouse thing fixed?
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15:41<andythenorth>hmm
15:41<andythenorth>maybe FIRS is good enough using location checks I already wrote
15:41<andythenorth>just applying them to more industries
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15:44<andythenorth>1 bad map out of 3 so far
15:44<andythenorth>better
15:46<+glx>michi_cc: win9x seems to compile fine for me
15:47<+michi_cc>glx: The question was more a does it work fine
15:47<andythenorth>2 in 5 bad :(
15:47<+glx>I can't tell, I'm still on 1703 :)
15:47<+glx>but mouse still works
15:48<+michi_cc>I know that :) I actually triggered the 1703 -> 1709 updated today just to test it.
15:50<andythenorth>4 in 10 bad
15:50<andythenorth>I don't have a control number from previous version :P
15:57<andythenorth>2 in 10 in my second test, different map settings
15:57<andythenorth>so unscientific :P
15:58*andythenorth pushes it anyway
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16:42<V453000>I think I got mesmerised by a tank
16:42<V453000>it's called iPad Pro :(
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16:49<andythenorth>you got the pencil?
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16:55<V453000>well I don't got anything right now
16:55<V453000>but I will probably order it soon
16:55<V453000>yeah including pencil
16:56<V453000>am selling my wacom mobilestudio pro
16:56<V453000>it's nice but the ipad seems much better and cheaper
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17:02<andythenorth>ipad pro is remarkably not shit
17:02<andythenorth>we have 2
17:03<andythenorth>it benchmarks nearly as good as my macbook on some tests
17:03<andythenorth>and is 25% of the price :P
17:07<V453000>yeah exactly
17:07<V453000>fuck sakes
17:07<V453000>it's incredible
17:07<andythenorth>I still hate ios
17:08<andythenorth>and apple wear clown shoes these days about software
17:09<andythenorth>build quality is exceptional though :P
17:10<V453000>I think I'll mostly use procreate which seems like an amazing app
17:14<andythenorth>looks nice
17:16<V453000>eats PSDs ... :)
17:21*andythenorth does FIRS
17:21<andythenorth>enough tanks for a bit
17:22<V453000>sick
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17:32<LordAro>glx: i think the surprising thing is people still know how to compile for win9x :p
17:32<+glx>it's just configure --disable-unicode
17:33<+glx>as long as I don't try to update ICU my mingw env is working ;)
17:34<LordAro>haha
17:34<LordAro>frosch123: how's that harfbuzz stuff going? :p
17:35<frosch123>pango, nor harfbuzz
17:35<frosch123>*not
17:35<LordAro>oh, that one
17:35<LordAro>i forgot
17:35<frosch123>you touched it last :)
17:36<LordAro>ono
17:36<andythenorth>hmm
17:36<andythenorth>vehicle dealer gets built on roads in middle of nowhere
17:36<andythenorth>bad?
17:37<andythenorth>towns only?
17:42<Cubey>Car dealerships are often just next to the highway or something
17:42<Cubey>They need a lot of empty land
17:44<andythenorth>right
17:44<andythenorth>but in game? o_O
17:45<Cubey>If there's a road adjacent, it seems reasonable
17:46<Cubey>I don't know if you can determine whether the road is ultimately connected to a town
17:46<frosch123>andythenorth: there is a "near-town" flag
17:46<andythenorth>I know :)
17:46<frosch123>it's used for toy shops etc
17:46<andythenorth>player requests seem to be 'deliver vehicles to town'
17:47<andythenorth>rather than to random tile near road
17:47<andythenorth>so I'm using that flag
17:48<andythenorth>works
17:51<andythenorth>bed
17:51<andythenorth>FIRS release tomorrow :P
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18:17<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Sun Dec 10 00:00:59 2017