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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-01-12

---Logopened Fri Jan 12 00:00:45 2018
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02:28<andythenorth>V453000: yo
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04:02<Samu>hello
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08:27<Samu>LuDiAI is unexpectedly strong in 4096x4096
08:30<Arveen>do people actually play 4k maps?
08:30<__ln__>does an AI count as people?
08:33<Arveen>wouldn't say so
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09:20<Samu>:)
09:37<Samu>3272x2200 - 4027x3174
09:38<Samu>@calc 4027-3272+3174-2200
09:38<@DorpsGek>Samu: 1729
09:40<Samu>2426x1842 - 2069x2145
09:41<Samu>@calc 2426-2069+2145-1842
09:41<@DorpsGek>Samu: 660
09:43<Samu>3037x2846 - 3349x2522
09:43<Samu>@calc 3349-3037+2846-2522
09:43<@DorpsGek>Samu: 636
09:43<Samu>ok
09:44<Samu>ludiai aircraft distance is nearly 3 times the others
09:45<Samu>160 days travelling
09:45<Samu>crazy
09:49<supermop_work>yo
09:50<Samu>hi
09:57<Samu>trAIns is upgrading from railway to electrified railway
09:57<Samu>very interesting
09:59<LordAro>iirc it's the only AI to be able to do that
09:59<Samu>nah, nocab did it too, simpleai too
09:59<Samu>nonocab
09:59<Samu>wormai
10:00<Samu>real problem will be later on, to monorail
10:00<Samu>or maglev
10:00<Samu>trAIns is just special
10:00<Samu>he does it piece by piece
10:00<Samu>the others seem to do it in 1 go
10:01<Samu>i'm not sure what AdmiralAI did, but he got electrified railways too
10:01<Samu>but some parts are still railway
10:02<LordAro>my information could well be out of date :p
10:04<Samu>516 railway pieces, 16,881 electrified railway pieces
10:04<Samu>I wonder why he kept some
10:04<Samu>must investigate
10:07<supermop_work>Are AIs gendered?
10:09<LordAro>i'd imagine about the same as ships and cars and other vehicles
10:12<Samu>:)
10:12<Samu>it
10:12<Samu>there are many unfinished rail routes by AdmiralAI
10:13<Samu>no clean up
10:13<Samu>:(
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10:22<supermop_work>well only ships coventionally have gender in english grammar, and that seems to be mostly tradition. pretty sure other vehicles do not, regardless of what a particularly affectionate owner may think
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11:44<Samu>hi
11:48<Samu>i'm bored
11:48<Samu>gonna make screenshots I guess
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11:53<Samu>a 512x512 map isn't really 512x512, it's 510x510
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11:54<Samu>@calc 510/2
11:54<@DorpsGek>Samu: 255
11:54<Samu>hmm :)
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11:56<@Alberth>you missed the two invisible rows and columns :)
11:56<@Alberth>or rather 1 invisble row and column, as top-north is (0, 0)
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11:58<Samu>top north is 1,1
11:59<Samu>bottom south is 510,510
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12:00<@Alberth>ah, then there is an invisible row at all edges
12:02<Samu>first to £1000M https://imgur.com/Sjremvq
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12:16<Samu>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=82458&p=1201076#p1201076 is this too big for the forum ? :(
12:16<Samu>wanted to show as much as possible with 1 ss
12:21<@Alberth>works for PC, mobile is probably horrible
12:21<@Alberth>did you consider to make the code block a text file attachment, and/or have less precise numbers?
12:22<@Alberth>I mean, the bottom 6 digits aren't much interesting if the amount of money is in the 9-10 digits
12:23<Samu>i was talking about the screenshot :(
12:23<@Alberth>yeah, me too
12:24<@Alberth>there is some info that isn't very relevant, like the vehicles at the left
12:25<@Alberth>and there is black space around the map, so the various windows could have been moved closer to the map, and make the image smaller
12:25<@Alberth>£5,765,225/ £8,380,410 <-- 5,8M / 8,4M says just as much
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12:37<Samu>resolution = 1027,597
12:37<Samu>that magic number
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12:41<Samu>this should be enough https://imgur.com/4ElMx95
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13:05<@Alberth>that would work
13:05<@Alberth>hola
13:08<frosch123>moi
13:10<Borg>getto hubs ftw! ;)
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13:17<Samu>useless screenshot, [img]https://i.imgur.com/EAF1iD4.png[/img]
13:17<Samu>but whatever
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13:20<@Alberth>:D
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13:21<Samu>almost there, 4 more screenshots...
13:27<Samu>done https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=82458&p=1201076#p1201076
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13:41<Samu>now that I posted the screenshots, I'm bored again
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13:49<Samu>I need to do better than just a screeshot
13:50<Samu>maybe a gif
13:50<Samu>stack multiple screenshots in a gif to show map usage progress
13:51<Samu>need a gif editor, a simple one
13:51<Samu>virtualdub might work, if I still have it
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13:53<supermop_work>the north
13:54<Samu>~andy, the no
13:56<Samu>is there a way to "screenshot" the minimap in openttd?
13:58<Samu>only interested in the minimap part
13:58<Samu>wouldn't want to screenshot the entire openttd window :(
13:59<andythenorth>biab
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14:03<@Alberth>find an application that can take a screen shot of some section of the screen?
14:09<Samu>i have an idea
14:09<Samu>can openttd screenshot monthly?
14:09<Samu>or yearly, or so
14:09<Samu>auto-screenshot
14:10<Samu>I would collect all those screenshots, load them in virtualdub and force it to create a .gif
14:11<Samu>hopefully openttd numbers them correctly for virtual dub
14:11<Samu>wishful thinking
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14:14<Samu>virtual dub would let me crop that "pseudo-video", I could cut the uninteresting parts out
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14:27<Cubey>You could do that pretty easily with ffmpeg
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14:41<andythenorth>anyone verified this is legit? o_O https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=82463
14:41<andythenorth>looks plausible tbh
14:42<frosch123>i doubt it's exponentially
14:43<frosch123>at worst quadratic
14:47<blathijs>Sounds like it might be by design too, linear growth is probably boring. And bigger towns also generate more movement per resident, I'd expect, since people are more used to moving around.
14:49<frosch123>well, it's like that in ottd 0.1, so most likely original ttd behaviour
14:49<frosch123>we could add a setting :)
14:50<frosch123>i think there were various patches which add settings for town production reduction
14:52<andythenorth>towns do seem to over-produce above 1k or so
14:53<frosch123>it depends on the house newgrf :)
14:53<frosch123>it's quadratic on a per-house base
14:53<frosch123>many small houses produce less than few big houses with same population
14:54<frosch123>people want to escape the skycrapers
15:01<Borg>;)
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15:26<Samu>interesting
15:27<Samu>so, passengers are "produced"
15:27<Samu>:p
15:28<andythenorth>yes
15:30<Samu>it doesn't keep track of each individual passenger
15:30<andythenorth>when does JGR need its own subforum? o_O
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15:43<@Alberth>it does keep track, for as long as they are traveling
15:44<@Alberth>I wondered about a FIRS economy with GaryG graphics today :)
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15:45<@Alberth>so probably Australian :D
15:50<andythenorth>considered Australia
15:50<andythenorth>but nah
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16:08<@Alberth>fair enough
16:08<@Alberth>good night
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16:12<Rybeast>Hey - I was wondering if I could get some help, please?
16:12<ST2>don't ask to ask... just ask (it's on the topic ^^)
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16:15<Rybeast>My wifi cut out, sorry.
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16:16<Rybeast>I've forgotten my username - I tried to request a password reset hoping it would email it out to me, but apparently I need my username to do that... Which defeats the object!
16:17<Rybeast>I've also gotten OpenTTD on my Mac. However, the graphics still seem to be the very basic ones - I've seen some YouTube videos whereby they installed the graphics as part of the installation process, but there doesn't seem to be an option to install on the Mac zip files
16:19<LordAro>define "very basic"
16:20<LordAro>you can download extra content from the main menu, including other base sets
16:20<peter1138>The only graphics you need are the original TTD graphics.
16:20<Rybeast>like, the very basic TTD graphics. I don't know what they are
16:21<Rybeast>what is the best graphic set at the moment? I've downloaded Zbase but it doesn't seem to have done anything
16:21<peter1138>Original TTD graphics are the best.
16:21<LordAro>best is very much your opinion
16:22<LordAro>you change base sets from the "game options" menu
16:22<Rybeast>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PTgkZmfWPo
16:22<Rybeast>Something that looks like that
16:22<LordAro>peter1138: also, i agree
16:22<LordAro>ah
16:23<LordAro>pretty sure those graphics don't exist any more
16:23<LordAro>not those specific ones
16:23<LordAro>there are several 32bpp grfs out there though
16:23<LordAro>and a couple of base sets
16:23<Rybeast>So what would I search - 'base set'?
16:23<LordAro>extra content download is divided into categories
16:25<Rybeast>I've seen that, but that isn't going to help me work out how I beef up the graphics in my game if I don't know what I'm likely to need
16:25<andythenorth>peter1138's opinion is the correct one
16:26<LordAro>searching for "32bpp" might work
16:26<andythenorth>some opinions are more wrong than others
16:26<andythenorth>that video is horrorshow eh
16:26<LordAro>but the graphics in the video are from a fork that ultimately largely got shelved, although the features themselves did get implemented into the core game
16:27<LordAro>(i managed the graphics for it for a while)
16:27<LordAro>as far as i know, barely any of the graphics themselves got converted to the new system
16:29<Rybeast>So there's none of the new graphics or better looking graphics at all in this modern day?
16:29<LordAro>there's zBase and other similar packs, but not exactly what you see in the video
16:30<Rybeast>I'm wondering if I've done something wrong then... :/
16:30<Rybeast>I thought I'd enabled zbase in the main settings
16:31<LordAro>you'd definitely notice the difference
16:32<Rybeast>I'll have to have another go
16:32<Rybeast>are there any nice maps? No AI, spacious, room for expansion and development?
16:32<LordAro>you keep asking subjective questions :p
16:33<LordAro>yes, there are maps that people consider nice
16:33<LordAro>there are some maps that are hard, that are easy, that are based on real life places, that are based on fantasy places
16:33<LordAro>generate your own
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16:37<frosch123>Rybeast: brix is modern looking
16:41<Rybeast>hmmm. I still haven't managed to sort the graphics, so maybe making a scenario and making sure I click the right shit will help
16:41<LordAro>Rybeast: you can only change the base set from the main menu
16:42<LordAro>http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_options_window
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16:57<Samu>https://www.dedoimedo.com/games/openttd-32bit-graphics.html
16:57<Samu>it was in the youtube comments
16:58<ST2>and points to http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/32bpp-ez/LATEST/
16:58<ST2>but I'm with: [21:21:32] <peter1138> Original TTD graphics are the best.
16:58<ST2>peter1138: \o/
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17:07<supermop_work>ooh i joined the channel
17:16<Samu>LordAro: https://i.imgur.com/8PrmoqL.png
17:18<LordAro>:)
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17:19<Samu>red means, too little buses
17:19<Samu>green means, too many buses
17:19<Samu>cargodist was enabled
17:19<LordAro>that's not what the legend indicates
17:20<LordAro>(white too little, red too many)
17:20<Samu>the legend is misleading
17:20<LordAro>well, either way AroAI hasn't been touched since cargodist got merged
17:20<LordAro>and has no concept of what that is
17:21<LordAro>i'm not sure it does any management of existing routes at all
17:21<Samu>the colors should be reversed imo
17:22<Samu>it's hard to understand cargodist as is
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17:25<Samu>i think the ideal color is one of the greens, unsure which one though
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17:26<Samu>red just means there's too many passengers on this route, but too little buses to transport them
17:26<Samu>something like that
17:27<Samu>but the greens... confuse me
17:27<LordAro>mm
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17:30<supermop_work>green = good
17:30<supermop_work>red = the route is over capacity
17:31<supermop_work>red = every train is packed and there are still hundreds of people at the station who cannot fit on
17:31<supermop_work>green means everyone can get on the train and find a seat
17:31<supermop_work>green = riding the subway at 15:00, red is riding the subway at 18:00
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17:32<supermop_work>white = no one even knows or cares about this subway,
17:32<supermop_work>seems straightforward to me
17:33<Samu>which green is worse?
17:33<supermop_work>no green is bad
17:33<Samu>which green comes after yellow?
17:33<Samu>the brighter green or the darker green
17:33<supermop_work>the one that is more yellow
17:34<supermop_work>iirc there is a scale or something in the gui somewhere
17:34<supermop_work>build in SE 6 hotels, equally spaced.
17:35<supermop_work>build a train line between hotel 1&2, one between 3&4, and one between 5&6
17:35<supermop_work>have one train be 4 cars, one be 8, and one be 16
17:36<supermop_work>if the hotel productions are all made equal that should let you see how different capacities look
17:39<Samu>how do i build hotels? I can only build entire towns at once
17:40<supermop_work>use a firs economy
17:41<supermop_work>they are a first industry with a somewhat consistent high production of passengers
17:41<supermop_work>so if you wanted to test three passenger routes with reproducible demand, that would be your best bet
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17:42<supermop_work>ofc once the game is running production could vary a bit, as woud station rating, but if you set us all three routes at game start, they should probably be close enough to compare
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17:46<Samu>lol, wormai started playing on my scenario
17:46<Samu>:o
17:47<Samu>actually, a shit ton of AIs, forgot to disable them :ç
17:48<Samu>gonna try again
17:51<Samu>ok i see
17:52<Samu>the color before yellow is dark green
17:52<Samu>that's why I find this confusing
17:52<Samu>the more buses I add, the ligher the green becomes
17:54<Samu>in my opinion, the greens are switched around
17:54<Samu>unless I fail to understand this
17:58<supermop_work>could be a valid point, could report it as a bug?
17:59<supermop_work>i generally would say that the green with more red in its RGB should count as 'more yellow'
17:59<Samu>im unsure as to what it really means, so I dunno if it's bugged, or if it's my interpretation
18:00<Samu>that's also what makes more sense to me
18:02<Samu>a dark green for me would mean I'm using too many buses?
18:02<Samu>a dark reed would mean I'm using too little buses
18:04<LordAro>you're thinking in terms of vehicles rather than passengers waiting
18:06<Samu>the best color is then light green, optimal usage
18:07<Samu>but i see it as too many buses, i could transport them all with less buses
18:07<Samu>that would make the green color a bit darker
18:12<Samu>it all points to dark green being the best bus/passenger ratio
18:17<Samu>let me look at AroAI screenshot again
18:19<Samu>yellow and dark green are thus the best ratios
18:20<Samu>it's just too constrastful these colours though
18:21<Samu>it's like they mean totally opposites of each other, while in fact, they're just next to each other
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18:43<Samu>a
18:43<Samu> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6651 - what colors are those? english plz!!
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18:59<Samu>i don't play that game, but look at that balance! https://youtu.be/CzAEqY8CVCg?t=758
19:08<Samu>75% life gone in a combo = BALANCE!
19:14<Samu>dead chat? :(
19:16<ST2>maybe here people sleep - well, we have 2 players that decided start 2rd WW - so, chats are not dead xD
19:16<ST2>3rd*
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19:17<Samu>:)
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19:49<Samu>well, cyas goodnight
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20:06<Rybeast>Why might my tram have atopped moving? It's just sat there. I've deleted track and asked it to 'skip orders' but nothing is happening
20:06<Eddi|zuHause>it's the end of the line and no turning loop?
20:07<Eddi|zuHause>or you have ridiculous timetable wait time
20:07<Rybeast>No, the track is all lined up
20:07<Rybeast>I don't think I've timetabled any stoppage time. ITt isn't at a station!
20:08<Eddi|zuHause>try to hit the reverse button
20:08<Rybeast>isn't doing anything
20:08<Rybeast>may have to use the cheat
20:09<Eddi|zuHause>screenshot?
20:09<Eddi|zuHause>still think it's missing track
20:09<Rybeast>but all the other trams are travelling where this tram is stuck
20:14<Rybeast>fml
20:16<Eddi|zuHause>funny memes library?
20:17<Rybeast>yes
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---Logclosed Sat Jan 13 00:00:47 2018