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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-01-14

---Logopened Sun Jan 14 00:00:48 2018
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02:45<andythenorth>o/
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03:41<Wolf01>o/
03:44<andythenorth>hi Wolf01
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04:28*andythenorth such ships
04:28<andythenorth>drawing
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04:35<andythenorth>I have a ships choice
04:36<andythenorth>better overall shape?
04:36<andythenorth>or more cargo visible?
04:42<Wolf01>Both?
04:56<andythenorth>I can draw the ship holds a few pixels wider than they should be
04:56<andythenorth>which shows more cargo
05:03<Borg>guys.. really
05:04<Borg>there should be option from console to adjust GS parameters
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05:12<andythenorth>bbl
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08:03<Samu>hi
08:04<Samu>the 4096x4096 tests will end in a few hours for the first 8 AIs
08:05<Samu>i wonder if I test all AIs
08:05<Samu>this consumed too much of my cpu
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08:14<Samu>i got to say I'm kinda disappointed
08:14<Samu>seems that 100 years is not enough time
08:15<Samu>the map feels empty
08:15<Samu>even with 500 trains and whatnot
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08:20<Samu>how do I recompress a savegame, I want to convert to another format
08:20<Samu>convert from zlib:1 to lzma:9
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08:32<andythenorth>o/
08:34<frosch123>moo
08:34<andythenorth>so what enables CC on sprites then? o_O
08:35<andythenorth>1. I haven't checked if it's enabled already on catenary :P
08:35<andythenorth>2. I could probably reverse engineer it myself and probably should
08:35<andythenorth>but eh, kids & chores :)
08:36<frosch123>PAL_NONE means no CC
08:36<frosch123>so, no CC for catenary
08:36<andythenorth>it's just some kind of transform right?
08:36*andythenorth guessing
08:40<Samu>648x898 to 68x79
08:40<Samu>@calc 648-68+898-79
08:40<@DorpsGek>Samu: 1399
08:41<Samu>nonocab built a maglev route with 1399 distance, impressive
08:42<Samu>the first time i see it build maglev
08:42<Samu>2917 maglev pieces used
08:51<Samu>ST2: hi, what is the hardest server u got there? 7?
08:51<ST2>define hardest
08:51<Samu>cfg file settings
08:51<ST2>server #30
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08:52<Samu>stuff like low loan, inflation, high costs, breakdowns, disasters etc
08:52<Samu>ok
08:52<ST2>for that, server #K3
08:55<Samu>horrible terrain
08:58<Montana>andythenorth: i've been translating FIRS and i miss some Strings. They are not even in english file
08:58<Montana>They are : STR_CID_ for Rubber
08:58<Montana>STR_CARGO_UNIT for rubber
08:59<Montana>and STR_CARGO_NAME_ for rubber
08:59<andythenorth>it's a default TTD cargo
08:59<andythenorth>(usually) already translated
08:59<Montana>Ah ok
08:59<Montana>so i will not be able to modify it?
09:00<Montana>Ok anyway
09:00<andythenorth>you can do it through the OpenTTD translator
09:01<andythenorth>https://translator.openttd.org/
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09:05<Montana>Well, thanks
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09:10<Montana>by the way, i had some problems translating some station names
09:11<Montana>i supose they are some kind of jokes, or pun
09:12<Montana>like BARREL_AND_KEG
09:12<Montana>???
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09:14<andythenorth>they're colloquial
09:14<andythenorth>which is hard to translate
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09:14<andythenorth>I was reading an Italian crime novel today
09:14<andythenorth>wondering how the translator does Sicilian -> English sayings, and how much it affects the story
09:15<Montana>hahaha ok
09:15<Montana>can you speak italina?
09:15<Montana>italian*
09:16<andythenorth>nope
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10:11<Samu>Wormnest: i'm configuring hard settings, which settings you want to see tested?
10:13<Wormnest>Samu: Well it´s your test so you decide but test things you haven´t tested like low(er) limits
10:13<Wormnest>e.g. limit number of vehicles, low station spread size, ...
10:14<Samu>i see, yes, i'm gonna test that out
10:14<Wolf01>[15:14:21] <andythenorth> I was reading an Italian crime novel today [15:14:49] <andythenorth> wondering how the translator does Sicilian -> English sayings, <- it's sicilian xor italian, can't be both :P
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10:16<Wormnest>Or test with an industry newgrf like firs
10:16<Samu>40/400/20/50
10:16<Samu>number of max vehicles
10:17<Samu>station spread disabled
10:18<Samu>max station size: 7
10:18<Samu>it's enough for city airport i think
10:18<Samu>max train size, 5
10:18<Samu>hostile towns
10:18<Samu>trees everywhere
10:19<Samu>max bridge height: 1
10:19<Samu>max bridge lenght: 12
10:19<Samu>max tunnel length : 15
10:19<Samu>disasters on
10:19<Samu>breakdowns normal
10:19<Samu>plane crashes normal
10:19<Samu>recessions on
10:20<Samu>inflation on
10:20<Samu>rate 4%
10:20<Samu>max loan £100k
10:20<Samu>subsidy multiplier 1.5
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10:20<Samu>infrastructure maintenance costs on
10:20<Samu>running costs high
10:20<Samu>construction costs high
10:21<Samu>airports never expire off
10:21<Samu>vehicles never expire off
10:21<Wormnest>You don´t need to tell us all your settings
10:22<Samu>cargodist: symmetric, asymmetric, asymmetric, normal
10:23<Samu>unsure about map size yet
10:23<Samu>256x256?
10:24<Samu>512x512?
10:24<Samu>256x512?
10:24<Samu>something around that
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10:27<andythenorth>it's so many confounding variables
10:27<andythenorth>what's the test? :P
10:28<Samu>to test how resilient the AIs are, i suppose
10:29<Samu>ST2: what's your [difficulty] number_towns value on server k3?
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11:20<Wolf01>https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/azXgpMp_460s_v2.jpg supermop
11:22<Samu>i don't feel like continuing the 4096x4096 tests
11:22<Samu>maybe another day
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11:25<Samu>it feels like it needs more than 100 years
11:25<Samu>maps are barelly filled
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12:54<Samu>guys
12:54<Samu>pick a number from 1 to 41
12:54<Samu>then pick another from 1 to 8
12:54<Samu>ty
13:01<Samu>dead chat :(
13:02<ST2>1 and 1
13:04<m3henry>4 & 8
13:04<Wolf01>41 and 8
13:04<ST2>hehe
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13:05<ST2>hey Samu: dead chat, eh?!
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13:06<Samu>ty
13:06<Samu>1 & 1 it is
13:07<ST2>lucky you, maybe Wolf01 is busy with F :P
13:09<Wolf01>Nah, just netflix
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13:09<m3henry>www.random.org is a useful rng
13:09<Wolf01>But I could F anytime
13:10<m3henry>Does anyone have a reccomendation for a GUI database application for Linux
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>you mean something like access?
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>also, you mean database administration, backend, data input?
13:13<m3henry>yeah, it's not needed for anything server related, just for personal record keeping
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13:14<Eddi|zuHause>i'd probably use python/qt with a sqlite database and roll my own gui
13:15<m3henry>I'm not out to roll my own wheels :3
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13:15<m3henry>But something using SQlite would be sensible
13:17<Eddi|zuHause>a qt tutorial for database views doesn't take that long
13:17<m3henry>I have work to do though xD
13:18<LordAro>m3henry: local phpmyadmin instance, maybe?
13:18<LordAro>or phpsqliteadmin, even
13:19<LordAro>phpliteadmin looks more promising, on a brief search
13:19<m3henry>Cheers, shall look into those
13:20<LordAro>they're meant more for db administration rather than input or whatever, but could work
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13:27<Samu>starting 8 servers, with 5 AIs each, except one with 6
13:27<Samu>let's see who wins
13:34<Samu>to be honest, I expect everybody to bankrupt
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13:47<Samu>8 PAXLink v14 - bankrupt 03-1951
13:47<Samu>5 Trans v130722 - bankrupt 03-1951
13:48<Samu>7 WormAI v7 - bankrupt 04-1951
13:49<Samu>3 TracAI v1 - bankrupt 06-1951
13:50<Samu>7 HeliFerry v3 - bankrupt 06-1951
13:51<Samu>4 NoCAB v499 - bankrupt 08-1951
13:52-!-EarthlingKira [~home_kira@central.home.kirab.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:55<Samu>6 WmDOT v14 - sold to OtviAI 10-1951
13:56<Samu>4 EpicTrans v1 - bankrupt 11-1951
13:57<Samu>1 RoadAI v4 - 01-1952
14:02<Samu>5 FastPTPAI v4 - bankrupt 05-1952
14:03<Samu>2 MogulAI v5900 - bankrupt 06-1952
14:05<ST2>Samu: testing with "hard" settings?
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14:07<Samu>6 OtviAI v418 - bankrupt 10-1952
14:07<Samu>yes
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14:10<ST2>well, you could PM'd me and I would give you the settings of our K3 server - but guess you managed it xD
14:10<Samu>i made them worse than k3
14:10<Samu>:(
14:12<ST2>hehe, you naughty :P
14:15<Samu>7 PathZilla v6 - bankrupt 04-1953
14:21<Samu>3 BorkAI v23 - bankrupt 09-1953
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14:31<supermop>yo
14:32<supermop>trying to get some more steeltown time in andythenorth
14:32<andythenorth>it's the ultimate economy
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14:38<supermop>andythenorth kind of yeah
14:39<supermop>even today, making steel is still pretty much the most fundamental aspect of the economy, after moving virtual money around
14:39<andythenorth>it's also the most connected in FIRS
14:39<andythenorth>intricate
14:39<Samu>2 Denver & Rio Grande v1 - bankrupt 01-1955
14:40<supermop>little puzzled though as to why the carnegies of my little region have put the coke ovens so far away from the coal mines
14:41<supermop>playing with zeph's 4x 8bpp houses
14:41<supermop>makes me want to redraw unspooled for 4x
14:49<andythenorth>supermop: coke ovens will be forced near blast furnace
14:49<andythenorth>but I can't force near coal as well, map gen gets tricky
14:49<supermop>this is true
14:49*andythenorth considered it though
14:49<andythenorth>I basically have to generate 5 or 10 maps for Steeltown
14:49<andythenorth>I fixed it so it wasn't 30 or 40 though :P
14:51<supermop>have yet to start making any vehicles
14:52<supermop>making some pig iron and tiny bit of chlorine, and getting distracted by passengers
14:52<supermop>as rail lines to the blast furnace had to run by a lot of towns
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14:55<Samu>8 SynTrans v15 - bankrupt 02-1956
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15:08<Samu>i'm not even paying attention to AI crashing
15:09<Samu>guess it doesn't matter
15:09<Samu>if they crash, they will bankrupt sooner or later
15:10<Samu>2 AroAI v127 - bankrupt 03-1957
15:11<LordAro>noo
15:11<andythenorth>frosch123: "COMPANY_SPRITE_COLOUR(GetTileOwner(ti->tile));" o_O
15:15<supermop>the only tire factory is on top of a mountain
15:15<frosch123>andythenorth: for roads you will need GetRoadOwner, but otherwise fine
15:16<andythenorth>supermop: does unspooled use 2CC on poles yet? o_O
15:17<supermop>no but there is a stripe of CC blue on the galvanized poles
15:17<supermop>so it would if it were possible
15:18<andythenorth>actually it's just 1CC I think
15:18<andythenorth>the 2CC was a typo :P
15:18<supermop>well there is cc blue on the metal poles and 2cc green near the top of the creosote poles
15:19<andythenorth>ok I'll try to patch
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15:22<supermop>also - I still don't know why front poles don't show on U pieces:
15:22<supermop>https://imgur.com/a/ZIFRH
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15:25<andythenorth>Wolf01: need to patch L 1441 and 1442 of road_cmd
15:25<andythenorth>I can't figure out the params for GetRoadOwner()
15:25<Wolf01>Let me see
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15:26<Wolf01>You need to change the palette, right?
15:27<andythenorth>yup
15:27<andythenorth>also learn C++ :P
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15:27<andythenorth>oh it compiles now
15:28<Wolf01>GetRoadOwner(ti->tile, ROADTYPE_ROAD);
15:29<andythenorth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pohnqa84v/o2ld8y/raw
15:29<Wolf01>If you need tram, use ROADTYPE_TRAM
15:29<andythenorth>compiles, but doesn't work
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15:30<Wolf01>Mmmh
15:30<Wolf01>You can get the roadtype from the rtid
15:30<Wolf01>No need to pass it again
15:31<Wolf01>GetRoadOwner(ti->tile, rtid.basetype)
15:32<andythenorth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pdjnledoy/2xsi2k/raw
15:33<Wolf01>That's a colour in place of a palette, I don't really know how it works
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15:34<andythenorth>the unspooled CC isn't :)
15:34<supermop>hmm?
15:35<supermop>you sure?
15:35<andythenorth>yup
15:35<Wolf01>Ok, COMPANY_SPRITE_COLOUR seem to be a PaletteID
15:36<supermop>ok let me fire up photoshop
15:36<supermop>unless you want to patch the game to recognize the blue I used as CC
15:37<Wolf01>Anyway, andythenorth, use "PaletteID pal = COMPANY_SPRITE_COLOUR(GetRoadOwner(ti->tile, rtid.basetype));" and put "pal" in place of PAL_NONE, more readable :P
15:37<supermop>almost a year since I drew these
15:37<andythenorth>I'm testing locally supermop
15:37<andythenorth>if I can remember how to work nmlc :P
15:38<supermop>would probably layout this psd differently if I were to start over on this
15:39<andythenorth>I got a syntax error on the compile
15:39<andythenorth>I'll wait for you to send a new grf :)
15:39<supermop>I might just repaint the pngs
15:40<andythenorth>Wolf01: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p4ertvphe/6fss27/raw
15:40<andythenorth>supermop: I just replaced the colour
15:41<andythenorth>global fil
15:43<supermop>currently nrt catenary only has 'front' and 'rear'
15:43<Wolf01>andythenorth, yes, that will do it, but better move the pal declaration near the other ones so it won't do it if has nothing to draw
15:44<supermop>so wires are part of front poles
15:44<andythenorth>supermop: yes
15:44<supermop>for stacking different wires might be helpful to separate those?
15:44<supermop>and maybe give positions / bounding boxes to different parts?
15:45<andythenorth>Wolf01: can't see a good place to put it :)
15:45<andythenorth>supermop: sounds like overkill at the moment :)
15:45<andythenorth>see what happens with more test grfs?
15:45<Wolf01>There are 2, just over the 2 ifs or near the SpriteID ones a few lines above
15:45<andythenorth>bounding boxes tend to be over-rated
15:45<supermop>would allow poles in the middle of the street
15:46<Wolf01>That would be cool
15:47<andythenorth>Wolf01: better? https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p8zxvrob7/noycck/raw
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15:49<Wolf01>Yes, check the indentation and remove that whitespace at 1690 and it should work ;)
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15:55<andythenorth>I can't fix the linebreak issue
15:55<andythenorth>1690
15:56<andythenorth>seems there was extraneous whitespace
15:56<andythenorth>which my editor is set to strip
15:57<supermop>('rear' poles have to have some amount of pixels on the 'front' layer, because the left most pole is rear for / but front for \
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16:10<andythenorth>supermop: any new grf? o_O
16:11<supermop>not yet
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16:13<Snail>question… can I set “reliability decay” with CB36?
16:17<Samu>i'm surprised there are still AIs that can still bloom in such hard settings
16:22<andythenorth>Snail: newgrf docs suggest not
16:23<Samu>uh uhm admiralai decided to build aircraft... :(
16:24<Samu>incoming bankrupt
16:24<supermop>andythenorth pmed
16:25<Samu>what are your thought on infrastructure maintenance costs and inflation together?
16:25<Samu>for airports
16:25<ST2>I can imagine Samu's comments like a football enthusiasm xD
16:25<Samu>;)
16:27<Samu>https://imgur.com/BBXx1yd
16:27<Samu>each server started with 5 AIs, except server 1, started with 6
16:28<Samu>the missing AIs have already bankrupted
16:28<ST2>leave away the CPU usage - that's for yourself ^^
16:28<Samu>heh
16:29<Samu>on 4096x4096, the usage was 90%+, peaking at 100% at times
16:29<Samu>for this test, map size is 512x512
16:29<Samu>size matters :(
16:30<ST2>I have at home a dual Xeon's, 6cores each, with HT
16:30<ST2>our servers are not that powerfull and manage games well
16:31<Samu>ram usage was about 10 GB
16:31<ST2>pfff
16:31<Samu>when I was testing the 4096x4096
16:31<ST2>only that?
16:31<ST2>check K3 server
16:32<ST2>usage is almost not noticed on CPU, RAM is around 200Mb
16:32<ST2>serverside, I mean
16:32<ST2>it has no graphics ^^
16:32<Samu>4096x4096 * 8 and then 8 more openttds spectating, so 16 openttd instances
16:32<ST2>put that on a dedicated server
16:33<ST2>without graphics
16:33<ST2>and will not complain :P
16:33<Samu>8 instances were dedicated
16:33<Samu>8 were spectating
16:33<ST2>read above
16:33<Samu>:(
16:34<Samu>ah, i didn't look in detail
16:34<Samu>just the whole total
16:34<Samu>then there was also AIs using ram as well
16:34<andythenorth>supermop: works for road catenary
16:35<andythenorth>did you change the trams also? o_O
16:35<Samu>some are really hungry
16:35<ST2>andythenorth and supermop: sorry the spam ^^
16:35<andythenorth>[shrug]
16:36<Snail>andythenorth: yes that’s whay I feared...
16:36<Snail>any reason why?
16:36<supermop>andythenorth yep
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16:36<Samu>1 AdmiralAI v25 - bankrupt 04-1960
16:38<Samu>6 CivilAI v6 - bankrupt 10-1959
16:38<Samu>bankrupted before, nearly missed it
16:38<supermop>I wonder if a 3 train line will be sufficient for running coal and ore along with a commuter passenger service
16:39<supermop>andythenorth: vehicle dealer is cute
16:39<supermop>just noticed it
16:40<andythenorth>:)
16:40<andythenorth>Wolf01: CC works for road catenary but not tram
16:40<andythenorth>can't understand why :)
16:41<Wolf01>Pics or didn't happen
16:41<andythenorth>yeah, I tried another type
16:41<andythenorth>supermop: still some wrong pixels :)
16:41<supermop>on which tram type
16:42<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8826/NRT-catenary-CC.png
16:42<supermop>oh yeah
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16:42<supermop>I forgot that modern catenary had blue
16:42<andythenorth>well that works Wolf01
16:42<andythenorth>push?
16:42<Wolf01>Fine, push
16:43<andythenorth>the whitespace was previously bad, my diff fixes it :P
16:43<supermop>I only did the trolleywires on galvanized poles
16:43<Wolf01>+1
16:43<supermop>does 2cc on wood pole work?
16:43<andythenorth>nope
16:43<andythenorth>2CC is probably possible, but I think it's overkill
16:43<supermop>plans on making it work?
16:44<supermop>ok
16:44<andythenorth>afaik, depots, stations etc are 1CC only
16:44<andythenorth>no plan here
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16:45<Wolf01>1CC should be enough
16:45<supermop>X MB of RAM should be enough for anybody!
16:45<andythenorth>pushed
16:45<Wolf01>That was 486KB or so
16:46<supermop>any clues as to why front pole doesn't show on U ?
16:46<Wolf01>I have some clues, but I wasn't able to fix it
16:47<supermop>really the U should have U shaped wires I guess, so I need to redraw it anyway
16:48<supermop>with lots of weights and pulleys to tension the end of the run
16:52<supermop>fwiw the green on the wood poles is not 2cc green
16:53<supermop>its the more copper oxide-ish green
16:53<supermop>which now that I think about it might have been intentional, so i'll leave it
16:54<supermop>maybe if we get greeble for catenary later i'll add the occasional cc signpost
16:54<supermop>along with tensioners, feedwires, etc
17:08<supermop>Wolf01 it doesn't make sense, the missing pole and the wires are part of the same .png
17:08<supermop>the wires are drawn in game, the pole is not
17:09<supermop>the game must be cutting off a big chunk of the sprite
17:09<Wolf01>Probably
17:09<supermop>and only for those tiles
17:09<supermop>as the regular / and \ sprites use the same template and show up fine
17:14<Wolf01>Sprite aligner shows nothing?
17:17<Samu>8 LuDiAI v1 - bankrupt 03-1963
17:19<Wolf01>BTW, must sleep now, 'night
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17:38<andythenorth>is bed
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17:48<Samu>5 Chopper v10 - bankrupt 05-1965
17:50<Samu>vehicles getting old for some AIs, more bankruptcies coming
17:50<Samu>they don't renew, or don't have money to renew
17:51<ST2>life... it's life: no money, no joy :P
17:51<Samu>let me copy paste settings
17:53<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pvne7ti3e
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18:16<Samu>ShipAI ships don't service...
18:16<Samu>i'm surprised he's still alive
18:17<Samu>it's*
18:17<Samu>255 bankrupts
18:17<Samu>oops breakdowns*
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18:52<LordAro>Samu: who's left?
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18:56<Samu>3 rocketAI v1 - bankrupt 11-1969
18:57<Samu>there's 19 AIs still out there
18:59<Samu>LordAro: https://imgur.com/ZWbKtnK
19:00<Samu>atm Convoy is leading
19:01<supermop>man unspooled code is really short
19:01<supermop>800 lines
19:01<LordAro>do the 5(?) AIs that haven't done anything count?
19:06<Samu>yes
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19:13<supermop>should trolleywires over end-of-line form a loop, like the tram tracks?
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>don't they do that already?
19:14<supermop>or end on poles with weights for tension, assuming that they'd switch to the other wire to turn around
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, busses don't enter end-of-line segments
19:15<Eddi|zuHause>they basically turn one tile earlier than trams
19:15<supermop>Eddi|zuHause base graphics just seem to have the same plain trolleywire as any other bit of tramway or road
19:16<supermop>turning around on a tile already looks really messed up for trams and articulated buses - if the vehicle can make that sharp of a turn it doesn't seem too far fetched that they could pull the trolley pole around to the other wire first
19:18<supermop>whereas the very tight radius in the wires might call attention to how absurd the end of line loops are
19:19<Eddi|zuHause>so why again do you worry about a tile that the bus cannot enter anyway?
19:19<supermop>I worry about what looks least ugly for the overhead wires
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19:28<supermop>I guess tram and bus wires could terminate differently
19:29<supermop>but until NRT allows stacking catenary sprites, the road wires will have to look at least ok for trams as well
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19:49<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: I guess it would look like this... https://imgur.com/a/Ade9U
19:50<Eddi|zuHause>the perspective looks way off on that...
19:51<Eddi|zuHause>but i guess that's a general problem of openttd
19:51<Eddi|zuHause>it's a bit weird that the two poles on the right seem to merge
19:51<Eddi|zuHause>the poles could use a dark top to make it clear that it ends there
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20:06<supermop>yeah that could work
20:06<supermop>maybe some kind of insulator
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21:00-!-sim-al2 is "sim-al2" on #openttd @#/r/openttd
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21:51-!-DDR is "David" on #openttd
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---Logclosed Mon Jan 15 00:00:49 2018