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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-02-05

---Logopened Mon Feb 05 00:00:53 2018
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04:43<PressureLine>daylength binary for trunk?
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05:37<Eddi|zuHause>was that a question?
05:38<SpComb>it had a question mark at the end
05:39<__ln__>but no verb
06:44<vasatko>Hi, is tehre someone who can help me with instalation Cygwin on Windows? I try it from this tutorial: but i end on 'setting up python', where pip install Pillow (or images) ends with exception.
06:44<Eddi|zuHause>what kind of exception?
06:45<vasatko> The headers or library files could not be found for jpeg, a required dependency when compiling Pillow from source.
06:46<Eddi|zuHause>"Under Libs section - libjpeg-devel, libjpeg8, zlib, zlib-devel, zlib0" <-- you possibly skipped this step?
06:47<vasatko>no 100% i install it! But can i check it somewhere (or add it now)?
06:48<Eddi|zuHause>are you running the pip command from within cygwin?
06:51<vasatko>in etc/setup i see libjpeg8.lst.gz but i cant find any file with name 'libjpeg8' in cygwin (sub)folder
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06:54<andythenorth>I assume orudge knows that the SSL has expired on forums? :)
06:55<andythenorth>HSTS is preventing me from adding any exceptions
06:55<LordAro>didn't it do that a month ago?
06:55<andythenorth>is it on a rolling re-cert?
06:55<andythenorth>maybe the Let's Encrypt isn't automated correctly?
06:55<andythenorth>or it's not handling LE failures
06:56<LordAro>could well be
06:56<LordAro>took me several "months" to get it working when i first used it
06:57<__ln__>Let's Encrypt is sometimes painful to automate correctly.
06:59<andythenorth>coop has invalid cert too
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07:12<@orudge>andythenorth: bah
07:12<@orudge>It's meant to restart the web server
07:12<@orudge>it's evidently not...
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07:14<@orudge>Should now be fixed!
07:15<@orudge>and it should actually restart nginx next time...
07:17<Samu> this site is not safe
07:20<LordAro>orudge: you missed one
07:20<LordAro>unless that's ^Spike^ or someone
07:23<@orudge>LordAro: sorry? I've fixed tt-forums
07:25<LordAro>but i guess you don't manage that one
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07:41<Samu>is there a decent citybuilder GS on bananas that does not crash?
08:05<LordAro>you say that as if any of them are supposed to crash
08:06<Samu>tried the one named CityBuilder
08:06<Samu>crashed next month
08:10<@orudge>LordAro: no, sorry, that's not me
08:30<Samu>bah i dunno how to innitialize pvt
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10:05<Samu>can GSs stop cities from evolving with roads, but not towns? (citybuilder related question)
10:06<Samu>i wanted to let claimed towns to grow with roads
10:06<Samu>but not any other
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11:17<Samu>Snail, do u make SnakeAI? hmm guess not
11:17<Snail>never heard of it
11:19<Samu>I'm looking for someone to make a Company Value GS for me, lol
11:19<Samu>to download from Bananas
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11:23<LordAro>Samu: make it yourself
11:23<Samu>yeah, :(
11:24<Samu>well all I wanted was something like "pause game when a company reaches a value of £xxx"
11:32<Samu>teach me
11:36<LordAro>plenty of squirrel tutorials around
11:36<LordAro>stuff on the wiki as well
11:36<LordAro>forums was where i started
11:38<ST2>I started exploring couple existent GS's and reading the API (to know what each function do)
11:38<ST2>not that I got anywhere, most it's by trial and error xD
11:39<ST2> -- maybe a good place to start :)
11:40<ST2>they love nuts :P
11:41<Samu>ok, i downloaded minimal gs gonna read some stuff there
11:41<Samu>and i hate reading
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11:50<Samu>function GetAPIVersion() { return "1.2"; } wha?
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11:52<Samu>SELF_VERSION <- 1;
11:52<Samu>what the heck is <- ?
11:53<Samu>the code looks different than coding in visual studio :(
11:56<LordAro>funny that
11:57<LordAro>almost as if it's a different language
11:57<LordAro>although "<-" is pretty weird, i'll grant you
11:57<nielsm>"put 1 into SELF_VERSION"
11:58<nielsm>it's not unusual to see arrow-like symbols used in academics when presenting algorithms, in fact it's strange that assignment using an arrow-like symbol is so rare in programming languages
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12:00<@Alberth>math doesn't have the notion of assigmments, so it needs a special symbol to denote it, or you must resort to a functional language
12:01<Samu>i think i'm gonna follow this first
12:01<Samu>minimalGS seems confusing
12:01<@Alberth>sounds like a plan
12:01<@Alberth>a bit much boilerplate mostly, as the real functionality is almost zero
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12:02<Samu>i wanted to make a GS though, hope it's similar
12:02<@Alberth>it is
12:03<@Alberth>in both cases you have to wait for events and catch+process them
12:03<@Alberth>set of calls to do something is a bit different
12:03<@Alberth>as GS has different / bigger powers
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12:08<Samu>squirrel is a language?
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12:20<Samu>because one place was not enough
12:24<LordAro>of course not :p
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12:40<Samu>is this true? 1.3 is max version?
12:45<LordAro>no, but i'm pretty sure there have been no changes since then
12:45<LordAro>see the changelog doc page, whereever that it
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13:03<Samu>this script took too long to save? really?
13:03<Samu>function MyNewAI::Save() { //This function is outside the class declaration and requires the name of the class so squirrel can assign it to the right place. }
13:04<Samu>followed these instructions :(
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13:06<@Alberth>Samu: the } in the comment?
13:09<ST2>if after //
13:10<Wolf01>Oh fuck, certificate again
13:12<LordAro>Samu: looks alright... did you reload the ai?
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13:16<@Alberth>hola andy
13:17<Samu>what is wrong?
13:17<Samu>is it supposed to take too long to save?
13:19<LordAro>it's not
13:20<LordAro>Samu: put an Info statement inside the Save function, see if it gets output?
13:20<Wolf01>To memory, which source file was the land info tool?
13:21<@Alberth>find a string in it, then find the string name :)
13:21<Samu> AILog.Info("//This function is outside the class declaration and requires the name of the class so squirrel can assign it to the right place.")
13:21<Samu>is this ok?
13:21<LordAro>what do you think?
13:22<Samu>i think so
13:22<Samu>yeah it's there
13:23<LordAro>that is weird then
13:24<Samu>RIP GS development
13:24<Wolf01>Ok, found it, the usual misc_gui.. when you can't find something it's there
13:25<LordAro>Samu: maybe some AI setting you've changed?
13:26<LordAro>Samu: also, it's irrelevant until you actually need to start saving something
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13:28<@Alberth>try returning some data
13:29<@Alberth>if you don't do that, I can't access the paste
13:30<Samu>how do i do that?
13:30<@Alberth>return {};
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13:30<Samu>ok retrying
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13:30<@Alberth>or some other value, the MainAI function doesm't, it seems
13:31<Samu>nice it works now
13:31<Samu>yeah, it was the return thing
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13:34<Wolf01>Heh... getting roadtypes from a tile without road... like it should work as expected
13:35<Wolf01>Nice to know that MayHaveRoad(tile) works on a railway bridge
13:35<LordAro>Samu: huh
13:36<Wolf01>NP, that's intended, it's a bridge so it may have road... there's a missing check somewhere else
13:37<LordAro>Alberth: Samu: i have fixed the wiki :)
13:37*LordAro looks again at Special:Version
13:37*LordAro becomes sad
13:42<@Alberth>reading the wiki too careful is depressing :p
13:44<LordAro>it's sooo old
13:44<LordAro>i want to fix it
13:45<Samu>naming your company? bah i am trying to make a GS :(
13:45<Samu>how do i transform this into a gs
13:45<LordAro>Samu: for once don't jump ahead 3 steps
13:46<Samu>i jumped one step
13:46<Samu>fine, i'll put a name in the company
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13:49<LordAro>Samu: also, be aware there's no real "how-to" guide for GS
13:49<LordAro>you'll have to work out how to do quite a lot of it yourself
13:53<Wolf01>andythenorth: I need NRT landscape internals, do you have some?
13:54<Samu>the index 'some_integer' does not exist :(
13:54<Samu>i fail at basics it seems
13:55<andythenorth>Wolf01: not iirc
13:55<andythenorth>do we need to make docs also?
13:55<Wolf01>I think bridges have strange m4
13:55<andythenorth>is all I have
13:55<andythenorth>we need to edit the landscape grid then
13:55<Wolf01>Yes, it's the same that I have
13:57<andythenorth>k brb
14:00<Samu> int some_integer = 2;
14:00<Samu>why doesn't it work
14:01<ST2>use: local some_integer = 2;
14:01<Samu>local is for ints?
14:01<nielsm>local is used for local variables
14:01<LordAro>Samu: local is for anything
14:01<nielsm>in squirrel, variables don't have types, values have types, and variables hold values
14:02<nielsm>any variable can hold any type of data
14:02<LordAro>squirrel is dynamically typed, so variables aren't "tied" to a particular type
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14:03<Wolf01>frosch123: bridges are burning
14:04<frosch123>raze them?
14:04<Wolf01>Yes, I was planning to remove tunnel/bridges from the game
14:06<Wolf01>I can't understand what rails are trying to put in m4 to make the RoadTypes funcitons to believe there's a road/tram on rail bridges
14:07<Wolf01>MakeBridgeHead puts 0 in M4
14:08<frosch123>since when do we have level crossings on bridges?
14:08<Wolf01>That's a good question
14:09<Samu>i need to crash a vehicle
14:09<Samu>because the guide says so
14:09<Wolf01>We need also updated docs, I can't find anything related to NRT landscape internals on the links I saved
14:14<Wolf01>Ok, I think I fixed it: m4 should be initialized to INVALID_ROADTYPES not 0... 0 is ROAD
14:14<Wolf01>We have broken maps
14:14<Wolf01>Time to savegame bump XD
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14:24<Wolf01>Pushed a fix
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14:55<Wolf01>Samu: now you should be happy: no more roads on rail bridges
15:11<Wolf01>Also we should thank you as we don't have anymore rail crossings on bridges XD
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15:15<andythenorth>loss of a feature IMHO
15:15<andythenorth>crossings on bridge is nice
15:16<Wolf01>Yup adds realism, who don't builds a bridge to level cross a rail bridge?
15:18<Wolf01>BTW, I'm totally sure it was possible to run road vehicles on rail bridges
15:22<andythenorth>child #1 keeps asking when we will put trains in roads
15:23<andythenorth>child #1 is actually pretty close to typical forum user I think
15:23<andythenorth>also he is sitting analysing the behaviour of all AIs
15:23<Wolf01>Answer: when we'll decide to add more bytes to the map array
15:23<Wolf01>Also needs revising the state machine
15:25<Wolf01>I have a pony too, and you will hate me for it...
15:25<Wolf01>One way tram tracks, only draws the tram track on one side
15:26<Wolf01>But it should be independent from the road's one way, so another bit
15:26<Wolf01>*2 bits
15:31<andythenorth>one way tram tracks? o_O
15:32<andythenorth>intended use? o_O
15:32<Wolf01>Make trams only go in one direction
15:33<andythenorth>I'm neutral on that as a feature
15:33<andythenorth>it probably has a use somewhere
15:33<Wolf01>It could work best if tram and roads will be set in opposite one way directions
15:34<andythenorth>so road has one way arrow, tram has just one track?
15:34<andythenorth>has to be drive-side aware
15:48<Samu>AILog.Info("We have a crashed vehicle (" + v + ") (" + c + ") (" + r + ")");
15:48<Samu>We have a crashed vehicle (10) (34942) (1)
15:48<Samu>not what I expected
15:49<Samu>local v = ec.GetVehicleID(); local c = ec.GetCrashSite(); local r = ec.GetCrashReason();
15:50<Samu>the reason was because 1
15:53<Samu>why does it write 1 and not CRASH_RV_LEVEL_CROSSING?
15:53<LordAro>because enums are numbers
15:53<LordAro>just hidden
15:53<Wolf01>Mark enum as flag
15:53<LordAro>they (almost always) start at 0
15:53<Wolf01>Or it works only on c#
15:53<LordAro>Wolf01: lol
15:58<supermop_work_>andythenorth: I want it for better looking end of line loops
15:59<supermop_work_>can live without it, but if wolf promulgates the pony I will second the motion
16:01<Wolf01>We vote, I won't decide for all
16:01<Wolf01>Also I should check the feasibility
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16:12<supermop_work_>not sure if voting makes sense
16:13<supermop_work_>seems committee decision by wolf andy (and frosch?) would be the way to go
16:13<supermop_work_>i haven't been writing code or spec so would be odd for me to vote
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16:22<Samu>I'm bored
16:22<Samu>is there a better way to code those events? :p
16:23<LordAro>unfortunately, no
16:24<Samu>gotta log them all!
16:26<LordAro>you can of course just have a default: case just to throw away all the ones you don't care about
16:26<LordAro>(or copy someone's existing one)
16:26<Samu>I care about everyone
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16:35<Samu>AIEventEnginePreview is interesting, let's seee
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16:37<supermop_work_>andythenorth: why is it so hard for some people to separate HAUL type from NRT?
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16:41<andythenorth>supermop_work_: specifically? o_O
16:42<supermop_work_>i feel like its a long running PR campaign in the thread to reassure people that no one is taking their HAUL away
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16:43<andythenorth>or there HEQS
16:43<andythenorth>their / there /s
16:43<andythenorth>it's non-paying-customer-support :)
16:43<andythenorth>I'm used to it, ish
16:43<supermop_work_>im just surprised that people already so strongly equate NRT with air-gapped haul networks
16:43<supermop_work_>no offense, but currently there are like only 3 haul trucks out in the wild
16:44<supermop_work_>update HEQS so they only run on type HEQS, which is not compatible with HAUL nor ROAD
16:45<supermop_work_>i just don't understand how people latched onto the concept so much already when it seems like the user base is still very low
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16:47<Samu>damn the way things are translated into text...
16:47<andythenorth>NRT Road Hog is not even on Bananas :P
16:48<Samu>numbers!!! and a true
16:48<supermop_work_>andythenorth: exactly -
16:48<Samu>oh, i'm surprised it wrote the name of the aircraft
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16:49<LordAro>the vast majority of cases beyond debugging purposes never require a string version
16:49<supermop_work_>i think maybe the strong reactions are partly due to the unfamiliarity with it
16:50<Samu>i can't get the mail capacity of the aircraft, apparently
16:50<Samu>0 means passengers ya?
16:51<LordAro>possible, what's the enum say?
16:51<Samu>what enum?
16:52<Samu>no enums
16:52<supermop_work_>this is kind of why i am reluctant to add HAUL support, because then i feel like people will complain that HAUL can't run on all roads,
16:52<LordAro>Samu: not there, but the function returns a CargoID
16:52<LordAro>look that up
16:53<LordAro>newgrf cargoes mean they're never constant, remember
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16:56<Samu>not sure where to look
16:56<LordAro>something that looks cargo related, probably ;)
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17:03<Samu>not sure what I'm looking for
17:03<Samu>wanna know if it's passengers
17:04<Samu>i assume it is
17:04<Samu>with a 5% chance it could be mail
17:06<LordAro>well you want something that takes the cargoid and turns it into a string
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17:06<LordAro>or at the very least, check it has the same effect that "passengers" do
17:06<LordAro>you're on the right page
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17:10<Samu>ok gonna log all answers from these functions
17:12<Samu>local c = AICargo.IsValidCargo(ct)
17:12<Samu>is this?
17:13<Samu>local ct = ec.GetCargoType()
17:13<Samu>local ec = AIEventEnginePreview.Convert(e)
17:13<Samu>whatever gonna try
17:14<ST2>Samu: with so many questions and so few reading, LordAro makes ~90 percent of the GS xD
17:14<supermop_work_>maybe town zones could be a bit differeny
17:15<supermop_work_>so you dont end up with a city with a 10 mile diameter CBD and then 3 blocks of suburbs at the edges
17:15<LordAro>ST2: i'm deliberately not giving any answers :p
17:16<ST2>that's ma boy ;)
17:16<LordAro>Samu: read the function definition a bit more closely
17:16<LordAro>it should become clearer
17:16<LordAro>ST2: lol
17:17<ST2>well, I look at many GS's and how functions were used and the API page
17:17<LordAro>that's basically how i wrote my AI, all those years ago
17:17<ST2>before trying to touch - and well, I didn't started on an easy place
17:18<ST2>my 1st try was with Aphid's CB GS, because wanted to put it on our servers, and our server controller needed to get info from there (we have goal servers)
17:25<ST2>anyway, I already told Samu that studying other GS's - or even using them as base (some simple ones) and using GSCompany::GetQuarterlyCompanyValue
17:25<ST2>he would get a CV gamescript :)
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17:25<Samu>yeah i wanted to make a GS, but someone told me to make an AI instead
17:26<ST2>well, for GS:
17:26<ST2>or even better:
17:26<ST2>it can change
17:27<ST2>I appreciate all the work devs put on this, and I prefer to read and test that ask (example): I typed an A, what comes next?
17:28<ST2>if you hit a "brick" wall, ofc feel free to ask
17:28<ST2>anyway, that's my opinion :)
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17:34<Samu>now what was the question?
17:35<Samu>the second question
17:35<Samu> local cl = AICargo.GetCargoLabel(ct)
17:36<Samu> local c = AICargo.IsValidCargo(ct) local cl = AICargo.GetCargoLabel(ct) local f = AICargo.IsFreight(ct) local te = AICargo.GetTownEffect(ct) local dt = AICargo.GetDistributionType(ct) AILog.Info("Cargo: " + ct + " (" + c + ") (" + cl + ") (" + f + ") (" + te + ") (" + dt + ")")
17:38<Samu> TE_PASSENGERS,
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17:39<LordAro>Samu: you don't need to echo everything you write into this channel
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18:09<Lemons>does anyone play 1.4.4 ... i would like to connect to others...
18:09<Samu>local am = ec.AcceptMerger()
18:09<Lemons>socily ; - ;
18:09<Samu>why did it just bought the company? :(
18:10<Samu>we're on 1.7.2
18:10<ST2>Lemons: any particular reason to play 1.4.4 and not 1.7.2?
18:10<Lemons>cuz im on a pi
18:10<Lemons>thats my excuse
18:10<LordAro>also you waited 30s for a response
18:10<ST2>1.7.2 won't run?
18:11<LordAro>ST2: there won't be a precompiled version
18:11<Lemons>i have a crappy operating system that my dad made me gun
18:11<Lemons>run *
18:11<Lemons>idk if i can even get 1.7.2 on a pi
18:11<LordAro>hey now, no mean works about raspian
18:12<Samu>local am = ec.AcceptMerger() why did this accepted immediately?
18:12<LordAro>why wouldn't it?
18:12<Samu>i bought a company, while I was wondering if i could buy it
18:13<Lemons>idk if i can get a version for the pi
18:14<Lemons>or the operating system i have atm
18:14<LordAro>Lemons: it's likely you'll have to compile it yourself
18:14<Lemons>er the 1.7.2 version
18:14<LordAro>Lemons: what OS do you have?
18:14<ST2>1st: what OS on PI?
18:14<ST2>that ^^
18:15<Lemons>pi 3 running Kano?
18:15<ST2>LordAro: take the wheel :)
18:16<LordAro>ST2: pfft, i'm googling just the same as you here :p
18:16<LordAro>looks raspian based though
18:16<LordAro>at least, the download link is ""
18:16<Lemons>that i belive is what i have atm
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18:16<LordAro>Lemons: how familiar are you with the commandline?
18:17<Lemons>the wat
18:17<ST2>so, the "jessie" mention is that remotely based on debian?
18:17<Lemons>words ---> 0.0 ---->
18:18<LordAro>ST2: aye, debian jessie is debian 8, or the last stable version
18:18<ST2>so, that gives a start point
18:18<LordAro>Lemons: ok, i'm afraid you're probably going to struggle with compiling then
18:19<LordAro>looks like raspbian buster only has 1.7.1, so you'd be out of luck there as well, i'm afraid
18:19<LordAro>lemme see if i can find anything else
18:20<Lemons>thx for helping btw
18:20<Lemons>im kindof not verry experienced with this kind of stuff....
18:20<Lemons>and neither is my typing...
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18:21<LordAro>is no problem
18:22<ST2>LordAro: Debian is now 9 (or was last time I checked) - we just didn't upgraded our servers because mono runs stuttering (we actually did on 1 machine - and made it back to 8 xD)
18:22<LordAro>ST2: yeah, buster, or 9
18:22<ST2>minors ^^
18:23<Lemons>in openttd download stable there is somthing saying Linux Debian Jessie (x86_64, 64bit)
18:24<LordAro>Lemons: that won't work on a rasppi
18:24<LordAro>rasppi's use ARM architecture
18:24<LordAro>Lemons: assuming you want to go down this road, some searching has turned up a program installed by default on Kano called "linux story"
18:25<LordAro>this should teach you some terminal/commandline basics
18:25<ST2>does this instructions would help?*BSD#Manually
18:25<ST2>even on ARM?
18:25<LordAro>ST2: that'll do it, but given "words ---> 0.0 ---->" ....
18:26<ST2>and ofc, getting the sources, etc etc
18:26<Lemons>im basicly saying i dont realy understand much tech stuff...
18:27<LordAro>that's fine, everyone has to start from nothing at some point :)
18:27<ST2>welcome to the club ^^
18:27<LordAro>rasppi is generally an excellent place to start
18:28<Lemons>im looking for the linux story
18:30<ST2>to read later but, when getting sources, for 1.7.2, use: svn checkout svn://
18:30<LordAro>ST2: nah, download from the website
18:30<ST2>other option too
18:30<LordAro>easier than teaching about VCSs :p
18:30<Lemons>any chance its called Terminal Quest?
18:31<LordAro>Lemons: that'll be it
18:31<Lemons>well i guess ill do that
18:31<Lemons>brb in probably 10 - 20 min
18:33<LordAro>i'll likely be asleep by then
18:34<ST2>I'll be awake, but probably my directions he'll install PH-VR :P
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18:37<Lemons>allmost done...
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19:00<Samu>some of these events are misleading
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19:00<Samu>i thought it was of any company, it's only of my company
19:02<LordAro>Samu: well you don't get notifications of first vehicles at other people's companies
19:02<LordAro>AIs (try to) have exactly the same amount of knowledge as human players do
19:02<Samu>we do
19:03<Samu>unless i'm missing something ...
19:03<LordAro>maybe we do
19:03<LordAro>it's been a while
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19:03<Samu>gui settings?
19:03<Samu>the AI chosen not to receive those news?
19:09<Flygon>Are town 'root' tiles attached to the z axis?
19:09<Flygon>Or the x and y one only?
19:12<Samu>wtf i found a bug
19:12<Samu>a zeppelin crashed on myai airport
19:13<Samu>and the aircraft could still land on it
19:13<LordAro>zeppelins are helicopters, aren't they?
19:13<LordAro>don't think they stop the runway from being usable
19:13<Samu>they're a disaster zepelin
19:13<LordAro>oh, those
19:14<Samu>disasters behave different for AIs?
19:14<LordAro>i'd be extremely surprised
19:20<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: there is no z axis
19:21<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: the town has an X/Y coordinate, the Z coordinate is read from that tile for the purpose of drawing the town name
19:25<Samu>case MP_RAILWAY: if (Company::IsHumanID(GetTileOwner(tile))
19:25<Samu>that is so lame
19:25<Samu>AI railways are not destroyed by ufo disasters
19:27<LordAro>Samu: there are a certain number of things like that, just because it's excessively difficult for AIs to detect (and fix) such things
19:28<Flygon>Eddi|zuHause: Thanks.
19:29<Flygon>The town 'name' didn't elevate when I raised its tile, that is all.
19:29<Flygon>Hence my confusion.
19:29<Eddi|zuHause>did you change all 4 corners of the tile?
19:30<Flygon>Come to think of it, no.
19:30<Flygon>I only raised three corners .
19:32<Eddi|zuHause>so i just tried, the name doesn't move on terraforming
19:32<Eddi|zuHause>but if you then destroy a house, it moves when it draws the new town population
19:32<Flygon>Thanks. :3
19:32<Eddi|zuHause>so likely the height is cached somewhere
19:33<Samu>i got a zeppeliner crashing again, this time the aircraft could not land
19:34<Samu>wondering if the aircraft was at the airport the first time it happened
19:37<Samu>hmm nop
19:37<Samu>must be a very rare situation when the zeppelin crashes at the same time an aircraft is taking off
19:37<Samu>zeppelin sets the block
19:38<Samu>aircraft taking off sets it off
19:38<Samu>so when it comes to land again it will land even with zeppelin debris there, i think
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19:49<supermop>maybe zepplin disaster should have to wait in holding pattern?
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19:54<supermop>need better names for industrial trams
20:04<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: the disaster zeppelin cannot do a holding pattern, because it doesn't have rotational views
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21:05<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: whats an old timey german nomenclature for machine models
21:06<supermop>like 'type 24' or 'model B'
21:06<supermop>something that a german works might name a machine in the 1800s
21:08<Eddi|zuHause>what kind of machine?
21:08<supermop>in this case a steam dummy
21:08<supermop>tramway locomotive
21:09<supermop>could be a number , or a name that sounds like something a new company might name their first engine
21:09<Eddi|zuHause>so early steam engines just got names like "Adler" and "Saxonia", that carried on till the 1870s
21:09<Eddi|zuHause>then the various railway companies started having model series
21:10<supermop>so a person or place for the earliest, and then a number in the 1890s ish?
21:10<Eddi|zuHause>which usually involved a letter and one or two numbers
21:11<Eddi|zuHause>so the letter was something like "S", "G", "P", "T" denoting the usage of the engine
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21:11<Eddi|zuHause>and the number was either some power stat or just the number of axles
21:11<supermop>were there many tramway locomotives in germany?
21:11<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know much about tramway locomotives
21:12<Eddi|zuHause>but, like trams now, they probably just enumerated them
21:13<supermop>probably overthinking it with two fake german brands
21:13<Eddi|zuHause>most trams were either horses or electric
21:14<Eddi|zuHause>steam trams were mostly just regular steam engines with some casing around it
21:14<supermop>these i am naming are basically that, small locomotives pulling wagons around harbors
21:16<Eddi|zuHause>you might call them "T1" and "T2" or something
21:19<supermop>'vogel' sounds dumb for such a slow vehicle
21:24<supermop>does 'Anfang' sound dumber for the first one?
21:36<supermop>also as a matter of describing the vehicles to players, 'tramway train' sounds stupid
21:36<supermop>'boxcar tram' also
21:37<supermop>'tramway motor with boxcar train' much too verbose
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---Logclosed Tue Feb 06 00:00:55 2018