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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-02-17

---Logopened Sat Feb 17 00:00:10 2018
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06:02<Samu>hi Wolf01 , I think it's a bad idea to let companies upgrade town roads
06:07<Wolf01>o/ andy
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06:08<andythenorth>lo Wolf01
06:08<andythenorth>@seen alberth
06:08<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: alberth was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 16 hours, 53 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <Alberth> no, box cars are boring in game play
06:09<andythenorth>alberth must be away :P
06:09<andythenorth>Samu: what are the problems?
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06:11<Samu>for multiplaying purposes, that is bad idea
06:11<Samu>any company can upgrade town roads
06:12<Samu>will eventually lead to abuses
06:12<Wolf01>That's intended
06:12<Samu>also, if I want to upgrade only my roads, i can end up upgrading town roads by mistake, because it's inside the selection area
06:13<Samu>it can be annoying
06:13<andythenorth>the abuses are known
06:13<andythenorth>we've added them to the long list of other griefing opportunities
06:14<andythenorth>I was -1 to upgrading town roads, but it's an inevitable consequence of NRT
06:14<Wolf01>So you upgrade the whole map instead of selectively upgrading roads? Like everything highway?
06:14<@Rubidium>but then what is an upgrade?
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06:15<andythenorth>it's opposite to a downgrade
06:15<andythenorth>logical eh? :)
06:15<@Rubidium>changing a concrete 80 km/h road in a town to a nice cobble stone 30 km/h can be considered an upgrade of the road (for the local community)
06:16<@Rubidium>but the reverse can also be considered an upgrade (for those trucking/driving through there)
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06:17<Samu>make it like bridges then
06:17<Samu>don't let downgrade to happen
06:17<Wolf01>What is a downgrade?
06:18<Samu>you can't downgrade a town bridge if the new max speed is lower than the previous
06:18<Wolf01>Apply it to roads
06:19<Wolf01>A -> B, A: speed limit 50, catenary, all vehicles, allows houses; B: speed limit 130, no catenary, only fast vehicles, no houses. Is it an upgrade?
06:20<Eddi|zuHause>lots of roads get "upgraded" to 30km/h nowadays
06:21<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: there can be no meaningful definition of "upgrade" if the "compatible" relationship isn't even transitive
06:22<Wolf01>That's why I set it to be able to convert only if compatible
06:23<Wolf01>So you won't convert a city to HAUL
06:23<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: but you can construct a newgrf where A can run on A and B, B can run on B and C, and C can run on C
06:23<Eddi|zuHause>you could "upgrade" B to C in that construction
06:23<Eddi|zuHause>but A vehicles would lose their path
06:24<Eddi|zuHause>and you have no chance of finding that out by the "compatible" relation
06:24<Wolf01>No, I don't think it's possible right now
06:25<Wolf01>That seem to be what andythenorth tried with HAUL
06:25<Wolf01>Making HAUL vehicles run on road but not vice versa
06:26<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't create non-transitiveness
06:27<andythenorth>wasn't the check against ROAD?
06:27<andythenorth>or is it against the current type?
06:27<Wolf01>It's always against ROAD
06:28<Wolf01>Town roads MUST be always compatible with ROAD
06:28<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that avoids the transitivity issue, but then you can "upgrade" to completely incompatible types
06:28<Wolf01>Ok, if you bulldoze them and rebuild, then wtf, you are free to do it even in trunk
06:29<andythenorth>incompatibility risk is a facet of shared infrastructure
06:29<Wolf01>Eddi, explain me hoy I can upgrade to an incompatible type if there is an hardcoded check against ROAD which is always valid no matter what type has the town road
06:29<Eddi|zuHause>you cannot solve this "correctly"
06:31<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: you can make roadtypes B and C which are both compatible to ROAD but otherwise have nothing in common
06:31<Eddi|zuHause>this would be considered an "upgrade" in your case
06:31<Eddi|zuHause>but break all sorts of routes
06:31<Wolf01>If they are compatible with ROAD, they can run ROAD vehicles
06:32<Samu>A is road?
06:32<Wolf01>And any other vehicle compatible with ROAD
06:32<Wolf01>Also if I didn't it wrong, once you go electric you can't turn back
06:33<Wolf01>So the new roadtype has ROAD+electric check
06:34<Samu>Electric Roads?
06:34<Samu>what in the world is that
06:34<Wolf01>Shit Samu, we are talking about this for 2 years
06:34<Eddi|zuHause>so what is it now? does it always compare to ROAD, or to the existing roadtype?
06:35<Eddi|zuHause>or both?
06:35<Wolf01>Upgrade of town roads: the new road MUST be compatible with ROAD and don't break compatibility with the current type
06:35<Wolf01>You might get to a point where you can't convert the road anymore
06:36<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: what i'm saying is that you cannot enforce the second part properly
06:36<Samu>disallow downgrading
06:36<Eddi|zuHause>which is what my A/B/C model was trying to show
06:37<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: in that model, B is compatible with C, so you could make an "upgrade" from B to C
06:37<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: but you still break routes of A vehicles
06:37<Eddi|zuHause>because compatibility is not guaranteed to be transitive
06:37<Wolf01>Too bad there isn't a A<->B, B<->C, A<-/->C model
06:39<Wolf01>The only way to do that is to have ROAD->ELRD->ROAD, which is already catched
06:40<Wolf01>Or something like it, you can't have, yet, a C type which is compatible with B but not A if B is compatible with A
06:41<Wolf01>With "unbuildable types" if they will ever get implemented, maybe
06:42<andythenorth>downgrades are part of the territory
06:45<Wolf01>Also normal rules for road removal apply to conversion, if the city doesn't let you to remove roads, you can't even convert them
06:49<Samu>why did it allow me to convert the entire town then?
06:50<Wolf01>Because you were able to remove all the roads, the conversio doesn't lower the rating
06:51<Wolf01>It's a conversion, not a removal
06:51<Wolf01>Try to remove roads and houses and convert again
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06:53<Samu>i just tested upgrading all road types, i can upgrade from any type to any other type
06:53<Samu>no restrictions, i fail
06:53<Samu>wasn't it supposed to restrict something?
06:54<Wolf01>If you use all compatible types, then there is no restriction
06:54<Wolf01>Try HAUL
06:54<Samu>what is the name of that
06:55<Samu>Heavy haul road construction?
06:55<Wolf01>Maybe, who knows
06:55<Samu>i could upgrade it to anything else
06:56<Wolf01>No, that's not the point
06:56<Wolf01>You can't upgrade town roads to HAUL
06:56<Samu>ah, towns
06:56<Wolf01>You can upgrade YOUR roads to whatever you want
06:56<Wolf01>Just like you can upgrade rails to maglev
06:57<Samu>but road vehicles of other companies will cry
06:57<Samu>this is so prone to abuses
06:58<Wolf01>Nobody stops you to remove your roads in trunk to stop other companies
06:58<FLHerne>You can remove your own roads already
06:59<Wolf01>I feel like 99% of these discussions about griefing are only whining
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07:02<Samu>towns are fine
07:02<Samu>i upgraded to Asphalt Paved Road with Overhead Wire
07:03<Samu>and can no longer downgrade them to anything
07:03<Samu>oh, i'm Appalling
07:03<Samu>maybe that's it
07:04<Wolf01>That could be a reason, but you shouldn't be able to "downgrade" anyway
07:05<Samu>planted some trees, and now it downgraded to Graded Gravel Road with Overhead Wire
07:06<Samu>downgraded to stone
07:06<Samu>with wire
07:06<Samu>i see a trend, only roads with wires
07:06<Wolf01>That's what I said
07:08<Samu>don't let town roads to be downgraded to a lower speed road
07:08<Samu>just like bridges
07:08<Samu>and everything will be ok
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07:13<Samu>what about roads of owner_none?
07:13<Samu>if i upgrade such road, will that road become mine?
07:13<Samu>it was my cat
07:14<Samu>it was Kiko
07:15<Samu>he stepped on the bottom right corner of the keyboard
07:17<Wolf01><Samu> if i upgrade such road, will that road become mine? <- yes
07:18<__ln__>a coal mine or the kind of mine that explodes?
07:19<Wolf01>Why don't you figure it out by yourself? :)
07:19<Samu>because waiting for a bankrupt is boring
07:20<Wolf01>Try making a scenario, roads placed in the editor have owner none
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07:39<Samu>gonna check why rails are counted as roads
08:04<Samu>bah... DoCommand stuff is so hard to follow
08:05<Wolf01>I already fixed that Samu
08:06<Samu>oh, nice!
08:07<Wolf01>We need to focus on worse things
08:07<Samu>what was it?
08:08<Wolf01>1 loop too much on the array
08:14<Wolf01>What it was the AI problem?
08:16<Samu>it was that they couldn't build stations
08:16<Samu>i found a fix for it yesterday
08:18<Samu>it was the STATION_JOIN_ADJACENT flag
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08:39<Wolf01>uint p2 = (station_id == ScriptStation::STATION_JOIN_ADJACENT) << 2; <- Samu, this should be the fix, could you try it?
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08:44<Samu>ok, sec~
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08:50<Samu>yes, that works too
08:52<Samu>the company_gui.cpp for (RoadType rt = ROADTYPE_BEGIN; rt < ROADTYPE_END; rt++) {
08:52<Samu>it was <= to < for fixing rail count, right?
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08:56<Samu>they're building stations
08:56<Samu>that was the most glaring issue, I'm unsure if there are other problems
08:58<Samu>need to find some adjacent stations, can't seem to find any now
08:59<Samu>ah, found one
09:02<Samu>strange that AIAI isn't building any road vehicle, hmm gonna force him to only road vehicles, brb
09:03<Samu>ah, he can build them
09:03<Samu>must have decided not to
09:04<Samu>got a weird AIAI crash, I've never seen this one before
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09:07<Samu>too bad i'm not the author
09:07<Samu>not sure what it was trying to do
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09:07<Samu>gonna try see if it can happen in 1.7.2
09:10<Samu>nope, it didn't happen
09:10<Samu>smells like a NRT problem
09:10<Samu>now figuring out what it was... :(
09:12<Samu>compare ratt vs 1.7.2 logs
09:12<Samu>on 1.7.2 it went through
09:12<Samu>on ratt it crashed
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09:16<andythenorth>lo Alberth
09:16<@Alberth>hi hi
09:19<Samu>Alberth: i made a GS
09:19<Samu>have yuo seen it?
09:19<@Alberth>:o great!
09:19<Samu>on banana
09:19<@Alberth>I don't look often there
09:20<@Alberth>I read you made a company value thingie?
09:20<Samu>because there wasn't any
09:20<@Alberth>that's a good reason :)
09:23<Samu>but i wanted to hear opinions about it :(
09:23<Samu>does it work, could be done better, etc...
09:24<@Alberth>the fact that there was no company value GS somewhat indicates how much it is wanted by people
09:25<Samu>nobody wanted? :(
09:25<@Alberth>in my experience it is far simpler to make software that you believe is useful
09:25<@Alberth>or what you need
09:25<@Alberth>if others can also use it, hoooraay
09:26<@Alberth>if not, that's ok
09:27<@Alberth>most users play SP games, where company value is a non-relevant thing
09:27<@Alberth>maybe if you make some performance rating thingie, that might work somewhat
09:28<@Alberth>at least you see people play the advanced performance rating maximizing game every now and then
09:28<@Alberth>although I think they don't do it often
09:29<Samu>i tried something with the script, tried to updates as often as possible, but only if a change is detected
09:29<Samu>update the progress/value
09:29<@Alberth>Can a cargo monitor detect origin of cargo on delivery? <-- no
09:29<Samu>it updates every other tick
09:30<andythenorth>not sure how to measure continuous service between 2 towns then :)
09:30<Samu>tick 1 sleep, tick 2 check for changes and update if so, tick 3 sleep, tick 4 etc...,
09:30<andythenorth>subsidy does it
09:31<@Alberth>I think so indeed
09:31<andythenorth>can it be done by analysing orders?
09:31<@Alberth>but it's embedded in the cargo payment code
09:31<Samu>oh well i'd like Alberth to take a look at my GS code, if some improvements could be done for the future versions
09:32<@Alberth>it'd be simple to confuse the code with complicated enough orders, I think
09:33<@Alberth>I once wondered about payment schemes, where you can decide how much a player gets paid for a transport
09:33<@Alberth>although that's not measuring
09:34<Samu>Wolf01: this is where AIAI crashed Error(AIVehicle.GetName(original) + " have no capacity for " + AICargo.GetCargoLabel(cargo));
09:34<Samu>that's strange, cus i've not loaded any newgrf, all vehicles have capacities
09:34<supermop>andythenorth: should slag in trucks have glowing bits?
09:35<andythenorth>I use the animated fire cycle
09:35<Samu>all the vanilla vehicles
09:35<Wolf01>Not my problem, NRT doesn't fiddle with cargo
09:35<Samu>must investigate what leads to this
09:35<supermop>i think i've fixed most of the egregious issues with my RVs
09:36<supermop>was pondering some fancy cargo age switches to make them glow less with time
09:36<Samu>original does not exist
09:36<Samu>how was this original (not) set, brb
09:37<supermop>i need to draw cars and transformers and pipes though
09:37<supermop>and prevent refridgerated trucks from carrying pig iron
09:38<Samu>abort("Wild cargo appeared. In case of RV there is no valid explanation.");
09:38<Samu>wish i knew what AIAI is talking about
09:38<@Alberth>study the code
09:39<Samu>but Wolf01 , this doesn't happen on 1.7.2, it is happening on NRT
09:39<Samu>compare the log side by side
09:40<@Alberth>andythenorth: could work as scenario, with an otherwise empty map, and 1 town at one end
09:40<@Alberth>hmm, even that fails :(
09:40<@Alberth>could do transport within the city
09:40<Wolf01>Maybe some AI is trying to build HAUL to transport something, but HAUL is only for wood
09:40<andythenorth>there is a way to do this
09:40<andythenorth>but I haven't figured it out yet
09:41<andythenorth>I can think of complicated solutions, but not simple ones
09:41<@Alberth>would work with industrial cargo
09:41<andythenorth>and if industries were forced to opposite ends
09:41<Samu>no, it's an iron ore service
09:41<andythenorth>it would also work if the payment rate was modified per town
09:42<andythenorth>so there is only payment to specified locations
09:42<andythenorth>if GS could query the cdist linkgraph, it would be possible
09:42<Wolf01>Samu, with which roadtype, with which vehicle?
09:42<@Alberth>hack openttd?
09:42<Samu>vanilla, no newgrfs at all
09:42<andythenorth>given a pair of nodes (stations), is there a link between them, and is it > unused
09:42<@Alberth>linkgraph isn't always stable
09:43<andythenorth>but it could take a rolling average
09:43<@Alberth>information should be there, I just have no clue at all where or how
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09:44<andythenorth>there are various cdist-related functions
09:44<@Alberth>:O nice
09:44<Wolf01>Samu, it was trying to build "orignal", I don't know what it could be, not part of OTTD
09:45<Wolf01>Look at the AI code, the AI might just be incompatible and need to be fixed
09:45<Wolf01>Ask the AI author to help you
09:45<@Alberth>so that should work, ask next hops for one of the sides
09:46<Samu>which cargo is 5?
09:46<andythenorth>seems like it could be fragile?
09:55<Samu>+ cargo_label 0x000001b66f19aca0 "GOOD" char *
09:55<Samu>got it
09:55<Samu>why was it looking for GOOD, it was working with iron ore
10:01<Wolf01>Does it throw error every time with NRT?
10:03<Samu>yes, but still investigating
10:03<Samu>must figure which station index is 3
10:03<Samu>the location on the map, wanna know where the AI is at
10:05<supermop>accidentally made road trains cost $0
10:06<Samu>ah, got the station on map
10:06<Samu>so it was indeed doing what it said it was doing "working on circle around station"
10:06<Samu>it failed to do it
10:07<Samu>and crashed, but on 1.7.2, it managed to do it
10:07<Samu>no crash
10:08<Wolf01>There must be a reason other than "must be NRT"
10:08<Samu>didn't connect the road
10:08<Samu>so... hah
10:09<Samu>following squirrel code sucks
10:09<Wolf01>Also don't load back and forth the saves between trunk and NRT, they might seem compatible but they aren't
10:09<Samu>i loaded and typed restart in console, should be ok
10:25*andythenorth drawing ships
10:25<andythenorth>tanker ships are blah
10:27<Samu>local station_list = AIStationList(AIStation.STATION_TRUCK_STOP);
10:27<Samu>the AI is trying to check if it needs to add more vehicles
10:28<Samu>that station is the dropoff point for the iron ore trucks
10:28<Samu>but it somehow changed to goods... how
10:30<Wolf01>GOODS is fallback cargo IIRC
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10:36<Samu>he's cycling through all stations, to check if it needs to add more vehicles
10:36<Samu>strange, i thought it was about failing to connect the road tile
10:36<Samu>hard to follow this code :(
10:39<Samu> for (local station_id = station_list.Begin(); station_list.HasNext(); station_id = station_list.Next()) { how_many += AddNewNecessaryRVToThisPlace(station_id, cargo) }
10:40<Samu>and this is yet inside another for cycle
10:40<Samu>for (local cargo = cargo_list.Begin(); cargo_list.HasNext(); cargo = cargo_list.Next()) {
10:51<Samu>i found the issue, it's still related to adjacent station issues
10:52<Samu>on 1.7.2 it built a lorry station next to another, but it got a separate station_id
10:52<Samu>on ratt, it built the lorry station next to the other as well, but... it joined to the other station
10:53<Samu>when AIAI is checking if vehicles need more cargo, it picked a random vehicle, and assumed only one cargo was being managed by that station, but it had 2 cargoes, wood and good
10:53<Samu>so... ratt is still bugged
10:53<Samu>separating stations doesn't seem to work well for the AI
10:55<Samu>must find where in the code the AI builds a new station
10:55<Samu>he wanted it to have a new station_id, but instead... shared the id of another
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11:05<Samu>Wolf01: ... on the lest, the new station is joined with the nearby one, on the right, it's a separate station_id
11:07<Samu>gonna compare how the code is followedd in visual studio
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11:36<andythenorth>first ship finished in Sam
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11:58<Samu>Wolf01: found it where it diverges
11:58<Samu>it's still in the same place!
11:58<Samu>uint p2 = (station_id == ScriptStation::STATION_JOIN_ADJACENT) << 2;
11:59<Samu>you set no flag
11:59<Samu>uint p2 = station_id == ScriptStation::STATION_JOIN_ADJACENT ? 0 : 32;
11:59<Samu>this set the flag
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12:00<Wolf01>It's !=
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12:02<Samu>ok, gonna try with !=
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12:06<Samu>good job! it werks now
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12:09<Samu>excelent! AIAI didn't crash now
12:10<Wolf01>Ok, fixed AIs, fixed infrastructure count, fixed whining about griefing, time to ship to trunk?
12:13<Samu>I notice small differences in the amount of money AIAI has stored, hmm wondering if road cost calculations are being done the same way
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12:16<Samu>is ratt based on r27968?
12:18<Wolf01>More or less
12:18<Wolf01>frosch123: any idea about this?
12:21<Samu>@calc 12530 + 79795
12:21<@DorpsGek>Samu: 92325
12:21<Samu>@calc 12650 + 79923
12:21<@DorpsGek>Samu: 92573
12:21<Samu>different construction costs
12:21<frosch123>Wolf01: trams are allowed to reverse if the tile in front cannot be built on, for example when there is a radio tower
12:22<frosch123>i do not know the details of the check though
12:22<frosch123>compare it with trunk?
12:22<Samu>every other accountings are equal
12:22<frosch123>don't care if it is the same :)
12:22<Wolf01>They say in trunk they cannot reverse
12:25<Wolf01>I just tried it and it's the same in trunk
12:27<Samu>there is a slight variance in construction costs... how am I gonna discover where it happens
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12:31<Wolf01>No clue
12:32<frosch123>hmm, 200 u238, 0 u235
12:32<frosch123>either i have bad luck or something is broken :p
12:37<Samu> first occurence of mismatching construction costs, seems to be about expanding stations?
12:38<Samu>have to investigate this better
12:39<Wolf01>If you find it what exactly happen I might be able to fix for this night release
12:42<Wolf01>frosch123: I don't produce enough u238 but I have a surplus of like... 3.8k of u235
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12:49<Eddi|zuHause>i think this discussion may be dangerous if taken in the wrong context :p
12:50<Wolf01>I'm also plenty of oil
12:54<Samu>aha, i found it!
12:54<Samu>placing a drivethrough truck station on a road owned by you
12:55<Samu>costs diverge
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12:56<Samu>£150 in r27968, £166 in ratt
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12:57<Wolf01>8 per road bit
12:57<Wolf01>Maybe it's trying to pay again for the road
12:57<Wolf01>8 is base cost for road
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13:04<Samu>i have inflation turned on, btw
13:04<Samu>or not, wait, let me check
13:04<Samu>it's off
13:04<Samu>construction costs are low
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13:36<Wolf01>Samu: RoadConvertCost in road.h:L223
13:37<Wolf01>That's what is doing now
13:37<Wolf01>It's called even when placing a roadstop over an existing road
13:37<Wolf01>But I think that converting to the same roadtype should cost 0
13:38<Wolf01>frosch123: what do you think?
13:39<Wolf01>Trunk was just cost.AddCost(_price[PR_BUILD_ROAD] * roadbits_to_build);
13:40<Samu>uint roadbits_to_build = CountBits(rts) * 2 - num_roadbits;
13:41<Samu>it subtracts
13:41<Wolf01>Yes it could be 0 to 2
13:41<Wolf01>0 if there is already the road
13:41<Wolf01>For each roadstop
13:43<Samu>your code is counting the number of road pieces
13:43<Samu>but it's not subtracting :(
13:43<Samu>8 * 2
13:43<Wolf01>cost.AddCost(RoadBuildCost(rtid) * (2 - num_pieces));
13:44<Samu>oh, i see :)
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13:45<Wolf01>The problem is there: cost.AddCost(num_pieces * RoadConvertCost(rtids.road_identifier, rtid));
13:46<Wolf01>The cost is different because it accounts for 1/8 of the build cost
13:49<Wolf01>Just for a quick test, put "if (from == to) return 0;" as first line of the RoadConvertCost function and retry the tests
13:56<Samu>what about the cost that is following?
13:56<Samu>cost.AddCost(RoadBuildCost(rtid) * (2 - num_pieces));
13:56<Samu>ah, nevermind, that's fine
13:56<Samu>there can be no more than 2 pieces
14:03<Samu>we have another problem now
14:03<Samu>maintenance costs
14:03<Samu>ah, nevermind, my bad
14:04<Wolf01>0 fixed it^
14:04<Samu>i turned it on in one place and not the other
14:04<Samu>sec, i'm restarting with the same settings
14:05<Samu>wait 4 months, fast forwarding is kinda slow in debug mod
14:08<Samu>meanwhile, my GS bugged out
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14:11<Samu>looks fixed
14:11<Samu>good job!
14:12<Samu>so far, AIAI got the same expenditure charts
14:18<Samu>speaking of maintenance costs, perhaps i should try enabling it
14:18<Samu>restarting test with them on on both
14:21<Samu>woah, it differs :(
14:21<Samu>the counting of pieces match, but the cost don't, it's doubled
14:23<Samu>Wolf01: look at infrastructure cost details, same number of road pieces, but at different costs
14:25<Wolf01>That's before or after the fix?
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14:26<Samu>that's the first time i'm checking
14:26<Samu>i'm unsure
14:26<Wolf01>Remove the fix and check again
14:27<Wolf01>If it's the same, I'll ship the fix and start to look at that
14:29<Samu>same problem
14:29<Samu>just checked
14:29<Samu>£1200/yr vs £600/yr
14:30<Samu>£1452/yr vs £720/yr
14:31<Wolf01>Ok, so I'll ship the convert cost fix
14:38<Wolf01> return (_price[PR_INFRASTRUCTURE_ROAD] * (roadtype == ROADTYPE_TRAM ? 3 : 2) * num * (1 + IntSqrt(num))) >> 9; // 2 bits fraction for the multiplier and 7 bits scaling.
14:38<Wolf01>This is trunk
14:38<Wolf01>return (_price[PR_INFRASTRUCTURE_ROAD] * GetRoadTypeInfo(rtid)->maintenance_multiplier * num * (1 + IntSqrt(total_num))) >> 11;
14:38<Wolf01>This is NRT
14:41<Samu>haha, so different
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14:50<Samu>2 * 159 * 159 >> 11
14:52<Samu>(7 * 2 * 159 * 14) >> 11
14:52<Samu>(7 * 2 * 159 * 14) >> 9
14:53<Samu>(7 * 16 * 159 * 14) >> 11
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14:55<Samu>60 vs 121
14:55<Wolf01>I don't think we can do a lot here, I could divide again by 2 (>>9 instead of >>11) but the part about having tram cost added is mandatory for NRT, as you will have different costs for trams and you can't just account it for 150% of road cost
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15:05<supermop>what is the issue?
15:05<Wolf01>NRT maintenance costs are double of trunk
15:05<Wolf01>With vanilla roads
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>the difference between >>9 and >>11 is a factor of 4
15:07<Wolf01>Yeah, I noticed
15:10<supermop>should electrical machines be grey or green>
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15:11<supermop>when i see transformers or industrial tools on trucks they are usually just shrink wrapped in white or blue plastic these days
15:11<supermop>but thats boring
15:12<supermop>think ill just take the steel roll, add a boxy bit on top, and a few copper knobs
15:13<Wolf01>Also to divide I should do >>1 not <<1... I always get it wrong
15:14<Wolf01>So it's 12
15:15<Wolf01>Samu, do you agree?
15:15<Wolf01>road_func.h:L166, replace 11 with 12
15:18<Wolf01>Or we should review the maintenance cost multiplier of the hardcoded roadtypes in roadtypes.h
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15:41<Samu>sorry, i was having dinner
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15:43<Samu>ok, let me test 12
15:45<Samu>yep, looks fine
15:45<Samu>the costs match
15:48<Wolf01>It won't match for the trams, but heh
15:49<Samu>hmm, i dunno how to test that
15:49<Samu>vanilla game has no tram vehicles
15:49<Wolf01>Load a grf with trams
15:54<Samu>generic tram set doesn't let me access trams
15:55<Samu>Generic Tram Set v0.4
15:56<Wolf01>That's the one I have
15:57<Wolf01>I see 4 tramways in NRT
15:57<Samu>build tramways is disabled, can't build
15:58<Wolf01>Uhm, yes, you are right
15:59<Wolf01>I had unspooled enabled
16:01<Samu>is there a nrt version of Generic Tram Set?
16:02<Wolf01>That's a vehicle set
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16:06<Samu>i need unspooled?
16:06<Samu>combine unspool with generic tram set?
16:06<supermop>samu, that will work
16:06<supermop>you can also use docklands instead
16:06<supermop>or vanilla NRT will have tramways
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16:07<supermop>no one else has made a NRT tram track set yet
16:07<supermop>so i'm in the lonely club
16:08<Samu>a fatal NewGRF error has occurred
16:09<Samu>can't load spool thing on rxxxxx
16:09<Samu>i have no means to compare :(
16:10<supermop>you cant load a tram types grf in trunk because trunk doesn't have tram types
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16:10<supermop>thats the whole point of NRT
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16:14<Samu>there is something in trunk, it has costs for trams
16:17<supermop>trunk has just regular tramways
16:17<supermop>it doesn't support grfs which provide different tramway types
16:18<Wolf01>Ok, I found what is the problem, I only have ELRL available but generic trams checks for RAIL
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16:21<supermop>unsure why 'vehicle_is_crashed' is a variable you can use
16:22<supermop>what are you going to do with crashed vehicles? emit flames and smoke?
16:23<supermop>change the running cost to something high to simulate paying to tow it away?
16:23<supermop>Wolf01: can i add decorations to catenary poles based on date?
16:24<supermop>can i model a lunar calendar and cover road surface in confetti and hang red lanterns for lunar new year?
16:24<supermop>because that's what my street looks like today
16:25<supermop>spawn AI vehicle 'lion dance costume' that walks around at 1mph blocking traffic
16:26<supermop>actually it would be neat to replace the reconstruction sprites with festivals
16:26<supermop>'sponsor street fairs'
16:26<supermop>equally maddening to competitors
16:29<andythenorth>lots of fixes :)
16:32<Samu>tram costs need to match during savegame conversion
16:32<Samu>how are u gonna fix that?
16:33<Wolf01>I won't
16:33<Samu>rip old savegames
16:34<Samu>tram counter on trunk is bugged
16:35<Samu>oh wait, it's not
16:35<Samu>i was looking at the wrong company
16:39<Samu>meanwhile i'm gonna fix my GS... something in it is haunting me, i thought I had it covered
16:54<andythenorth>is bed
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16:56<Samu>ah, of course it would bug out, I'm stupid
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17:51<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: "organize protests"?
17:53<supermop>sure why not
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