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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-02-19

---Logopened Mon Feb 19 00:00:13 2018
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04:47<Wolf01>Last day @ home... tomorrow back to work
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07:16<Samu>Wolf01: well well
07:17<Samu>out of 5 tram AIs, only one built a complete service
07:17<Samu>Trans did it!
07:17<Samu>that AI that refused to start yesterday
07:20<Samu>that is with roadhog + unspooled
07:20<Samu>gonna try only with generic set, brb
07:22<Wolf01>I could start working on the next step
07:23<Samu>no trams built with generic tram set only
07:24<Wolf01>Which trams were built with roadhog?
07:24<Samu>not sure, gonna try roadhog again
07:27<Samu>trans got the worst road pathfinder I know of
07:27<Samu>looks like dijstra
07:27<Samu>still planning first service
07:28<Samu>Ladycross Passenger Tram
07:29<Samu>Tram type: tramway
07:29<Samu>do you want the savegame?
07:30<Wolf01>So they just won't build electric trams
07:30<Samu>admiral ai builds tram lines, but doesn't complete it with vehicles
07:30<Wolf01>Because every AI isn't aware that there are different tramways/roads
07:31<Wolf01>Admiral might want to use more powerful electric trams
07:32<Samu>yeam seems to be that, none of the trams are electric
07:33<Wolf01>AIs will need some update
07:34<Samu>Trans also builds cargo trams successfully
07:34<Samu>Buildwas Open Tram, transporting Coal
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07:45<Samu>none builds heavy haul road apparently
07:46<Wolf01>I bet noone builds asphalt road too
07:47<Samu>i dont have asphalt listed, is that part of unspooled?
07:47<Samu>only trying roadhog
07:48<Samu>pathzilla built a tram line! wondering if it builds the vehicles
07:49<Samu>nop, seems to be doing as Admiral... builds the connections, but then doesn't build the vehicles
07:50<Samu>otvi built some tram line too, heh, let me take a look
07:53<Samu>same issue
07:53<Samu>got the route built, but then doesn't build vehicles
07:55<Wolf01>Ha, town build the roads I want :>
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08:10<Wolf01>Yeah, I even made the roadworks to change the roadtype
08:46<Wolf01>I need to create a nice function which takes only the roads which towns should build and available to the current year
08:49<Wolf01>I got towns with highway, a lot of towns with electrified roads
08:57<Samu>got a problem for u
08:58<Samu>AIAI was trying to build a truck that isn't available at that depot
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09:00<Samu>yeah it's available at the other road type
09:02<Wolf01>Not a problem for me, AIs need to be updated
09:02<Wolf01>It was trying to purchase HAUL vehicles in ROAD depots, it's not my fault
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10:26<Samu>DictatorAI "can't find an engine of type VT_ROAD to use with cargo #0 PASS
10:26<Samu>that is strange
10:27<Samu>gonna investigate what it means with VT_ROAD
10:27<Wolf01>I wouldn't do other tests until we have proper AIs
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10:32<Samu> enum VehicleType { VT_RAIL, ///< Rail type vehicle. VT_ROAD, ///< Road type vehicle (bus / truck). VT_WATER, ///< Water type vehicle. VT_AIR, ///< Air type vehicle. VT_INVALID = 0xFF, ///< Invalid vehicle type. };
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10:34<Samu>this can only be true if DictatorAI is trying to build for HAUL road ?
10:35<Samu>no passenger vehicles on that road
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10:51<@Alberth>hi hi
11:00<Samu>none of the AIs I tested so far has built heavy haul or electric tramway
11:00<Samu>gonna test the next 14
11:03<supermop>samu, most ais probably think of the cheapest waytype as being best
11:04<supermop>in roadhog, the HAUL vehicles are very expensive
11:04<supermop>AI probably thinks 4 regular trucks on regular road is a better deal than 1 big truck on special road
11:04<Samu>i think they don't know those road subtypes as you call it, even exist
11:05<@Alberth>I would hope so, as it doesn't exist in current openttd :)
11:05<supermop>i don't think any AIs even look for different railtypes, and those have been in trunk for years
11:05<supermop>they typically just build RAIL
11:06<supermop>even if it has a speed of 80kmh
11:06<supermop>so i made both green and grey electrical machines
11:06<Samu>trAIns upgrades rail to electric, to monorail and to maglev
11:06<@Alberth>that would fail if you run a default 100 year game :)
11:07<supermop>the green ones look very pre-1970 to me
11:07<@Alberth>sounds fair :)
11:08<supermop>so i don't know if it is neater to have green before year x, then transition, then grey
11:08<Wolf01>supermop: prepare yourself for more grfs for test, I hope you read what I've done today
11:08<supermop>or just always have a random assortment of greey and grey
11:08<supermop>have not read yet Wolf01
11:08<supermop>i need to fix something in docklands though
11:08<supermop>its disabling itself when i load spool now
11:09<@Alberth>for a transition you need a 3rd set of machines?
11:09<supermop>oops i boiled my water for tea
11:09<supermop>Alberth: i use stacks on the sprites so i can just stack in a mix
11:11<@Alberth>ah, spiffy
11:11<Samu>MogulAI: "Good engine for COAL not found!"
11:12<Samu>i'm getting several AIs complaining about this similar problem
11:12<Wolf01>Tell them to fuck off :P
11:12<Samu>only seems to happen with the roadhog newgrf
11:12<Samu>if no newgrf is loaded, then they build fine
11:13<Wolf01>Write an AI for NRT
11:13<Samu>eh... i thought it was supposed to maintain compatibility with the old stuff
11:14<Wolf01>You just said that if no grf is loaded they build fine
11:14<@Alberth>transition may depend on how long it is, if you add a 3rd set of engines, transition can easily take a decade or more
11:14<Wolf01>What is missing is the compatibility with NEW stuff
11:14<Samu>old stuff in this case, the AI being old
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11:18<Samu>gonna investigate the choice of engine code, brb
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11:20<supermop>so what have you added Wolf01 ?
11:20<Wolf01>Roads for towns
11:21<Wolf01>It needs a lot of refinement and it might not be the final solution, but it works
11:21<Wolf01>Just set another flag
11:22<Wolf01>But I think I'll move it to properties, so you are forced to tell if a roadtype can be used or not
11:24<Wolf01>Currently no roadtype is usable, so it defaults to normal road
11:25<supermop>well tell me how to use it and i will
11:25<Wolf01>Needs NML patch
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11:27<supermop>i still need to figure out how to recolor cargo sprites
11:27<Wolf01>Actually I also check for NO_HOUSES flag (it's useless to set a roadtype as town road and it can't even support houses), and discarded all the electric ones
11:28<supermop>the docs make no sense to me
11:29<supermop>i need a dumber explanation, like 'here is how you make x1-x8 look like y1-y8' and here is where you put that code
11:32<supermop>Wolf01: is there a property for how much town wants to build the type?
11:32<Wolf01>No, it's totally random now
11:33<Wolf01>But I can add a weight
11:39<supermop>brb museum time
11:59<Samu>Wolf01: which roadsybtype 2 is this on roadhod?
11:59<Samu> (((e)->u).road).roadsubtype 2 RoadSubType
12:00<Samu>confused, some vehicles don't have a roadsubtype
12:08<Samu>ScriptEngineList found 52 engines
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12:26<Samu>i see
12:26<Samu>from a list of 52 road vehicles, it shortened it to 24
12:26<Samu>now from these 24, it's selecting only those with coal
12:27<Samu>only 5 were found
12:27<Samu>5 vehicles can trnsport coal, and can run on roadtype road
12:27<Samu>well, why does mogul fail then
12:28<Samu>he's looking for articulated vehicles now
12:28<Samu>for non-articulated, actually
12:28<Samu>i guess roadhog vehicles are all articulated, right?
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12:29<Samu>yep, all coal vehicles found are articulated
12:29<Samu>he kept 0 vehicles, then outputs that message "Good engine for COAL not found!"
12:30<Samu>false alarm Wolf01 :(
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12:35<Samu>i hacked mogulai code to let him buy articulated vehicles
12:35<Samu>i get another error now
12:35<Samu>"vehicle with engine Broadrock Mining Truck not bought! ERR_VEHICLE_WRONG_DEPOT
12:39<Samu>needs to filter out incompatible vehicles, hmm how am i gonna do this
12:41<Samu>CanRunOnRail (EngineID engine_id, AIRail::RailType track_rail_type) Check if a train vehicle can run on a RailType.
12:41<Samu>is there an equivalent for Road?
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12:49<@Alberth>not in trunk, as all road are runnable
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12:52<Samu>not in ratt either :(
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13:02<Wolf01>There's HasPowerOnRoad in RATT
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13:03<LordAro>Wolf01: should probably be consistently named, imo
13:05<Samu>what mogulai wanted to buy at this point was a road vehicle that transports coal, is articulated, and can run on road ROAD, he tried to buy a road HAUL vehicle :(
13:06<Samu>needs a way to exclude HAUL vehicles
13:06<Samu>or a way to keep only ROAD vehicles
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13:14<Samu>wagonlist.Valuate(AIEngine.CanRunOnRail, AIRail.GetCurrentRailType());
13:14<Samu>something like this, but for road
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13:23<Samu>woah, even buses are articulated in roadhog, while they don't articulate
13:23<Samu>fix ploz
13:29<Samu>uh, nop, simpleai is complaining about something else, my bad
13:30<Samu>are roadhog buses articulated or not? strange
13:37<Samu>Wolf01: can you confirm something for me? are roadhog buses articulated? They don't look like they are, but the valuator is excluding all articulated buses
13:37<Samu>it's none left
13:38<Samu>when i tell it to keep articulated buses, he builds them
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13:44<Wolf01>They are all articulated
13:45<Samu>heh, I suspected
13:45<Samu>can u fix that?
13:45<Wolf01>It's a grf and made like that with a purpose
13:45<Wolf01>Nothing to fix there
13:45<Wolf01>Fix the AI
13:46<Samu>the buses don't look articulated
13:46<Wolf01>They are made so to not being able to enter in drive-in roadstops
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13:47<Samu>they can enter normal stations
13:47<Samu>i just tested that
13:48<Wolf01>So they aren't articulated
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13:48<Samu>uh, they are for the AI
13:48<Samu>he can't use them
13:48<Wolf01>frosch123: quak, I was fiddling with towns and happened, not even long to be ready, but it's a start
13:48<Wolf01>'lo andy
13:49<andythenorth>random roads :)
13:49<Wolf01> first 2 images
13:49<Wolf01>Dinner is ready, bbl
13:53<Samu>just checked. there are 11 engines that are able to enter normal stations, all the buses and the courier trucks, but you flagged them as articulated and the ai can't use them :(
13:53<Samu>why u no fix :(
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14:03<andythenorth>how do they enter normal stations if they are articulated?
14:03<andythenorth>that's not possible
14:03<andythenorth>where does that bug originate then? o_O
14:04<Samu>all roadhog buses can enter normal stations
14:06<andythenorth>yes, so they don't have an articulated flag
14:06<andythenorth>so where in the stack is the error?
14:06<Samu>that's weird SimpleAI is using a valuator
14:06<Samu>asking if the engine is articulated
14:07<Samu>it keeps all non-articulated engines
14:07<Samu>which is 0 in the case of roadhog
14:07<Samu>keeps nothing
14:07<andythenorth>I'll check Hog first
14:08<Wolf01>andythenorth: I implemented town road as a flag, but I think I'll implement it as a set of properties (enable, choice weight...), but some things need to be considered, like the no-houses flag which isn't compatible with town road (you want a dead city? because that's how you get a dead city), also I discarded electric types, maybe I should not, and I'll need to discard not available roadtypes
14:08<Wolf01>by date too
14:09<andythenorth>ok this is interesting
14:09<andythenorth>all Hog vehicles are articulated
14:09<andythenorth>with n parts
14:09<andythenorth>and in some cases n is one
14:10<andythenorth>so that breaks AIs eh?
14:10<andythenorth>that's interesting
14:10<andythenorth>Wolf01: maybe a dead city is a goal? o_O
14:10<Wolf01>Is it possible with NML to warn if one set the roadtype as town road and also sets the no-houses flag?
14:10<andythenorth>for weird scenarios :P
14:12<Samu>AI is apparently selecting vehicles that can enter normal stations as that's the only station type it uses
14:12<Wolf01>Ban AIs which use normal road stations
14:13<Wolf01>First official NRT grf from andy: no drive-in roadstops.
14:15<andythenorth>I suspect the AI reads the flag (property) on the vehicle where the articulated bit is set
14:15<andythenorth>at a guess
14:15<andythenorth>rather than counting the number of vehicles in the consist
14:15<andythenorth>I could resolve that in the newgrf, if I can be arsed
14:15<andythenorth>all Hog vehicles seem to have the flag set, afaict
14:15<andythenorth>NML hides this away a bit, so not sure
14:16<Samu>line 238 script_engine.cpp ScriptEngine::IsArticulated(EngineID engine_id)
14:17<Samu>bool IsArticulatedEngine(EngineID engine_type) { return HasBit(EngInfo(engine_type)->callback_mask, CBM_VEHICLE_ARTIC_ENGINE); }
14:17<Samu>doesn't go counting parts :(
14:26<andythenorth>I'll need to change the grf
14:27<andythenorth> AI that only uses drive-in stops is a silly AI
14:33<Samu>there's many like that
14:35<andythenorth>seems daft, but eh
14:35<andythenorth>I've added it to my to-do list
14:36<Wolf01>While you are at it, you might want to test also the town roads ;)
14:36<Wolf01>I added a property, now I need to load it from grfs
14:37<Samu>AIs might see it as a different kind of road and fail, keks
14:37<Wolf01>andythenorth: which property indexes are free?
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14:38<andythenorth>dunno :)
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14:39<andythenorth>but I can have a look in 1 hour or so :)
14:39<andythenorth>I have to go out
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14:43<Samu>how am I testing townroads?
14:45<Samu>i funded local road reconstruction, but the road is still the same
14:52<Wolf01>You can't
14:52<Wolf01>I made it today and it won't be compiled for a long time
14:52<Samu>oh :(
14:52<Samu>looks like a nice feature, but will bridges be upgraded?
14:53<Samu>and tunnels
14:54<Wolf01>I'm not even sure if I'll keep the roadworks stuff
14:55<Samu>i'd keep it, but then disallow companies upgrading town roads. Do it by the means of roadworks
14:56<Wolf01>Roadworks are to piss off players, not to aid them
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15:47<Wolf01>So, I'm changing it again, just the choice weight, if 0 is disabled, byte size
15:47<Wolf01>Tell me a property index and I'll use that :P
15:48<supermop>what'd i miss?
15:48<Wolf01>Town roads
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15:59<supermop>now im wondering if mixing transformer colors isn't worth it afterall,
15:59<supermop>as a factory probably is only making one color of them at any given time
15:59<supermop>so a truck isn't ever going to leave the factory with two green ones and a grey one
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16:00<supermop>its not like crates where you need the different shades to break up the mass
16:00<andythenorth>I wouldn't bother
16:00<andythenorth>unless you use magic recolouring
16:01<supermop>andythenorth: i already drew green and grey and i like both
16:01<supermop>but i might just have green up to year x then grey
16:01<supermop>that or each truck load is randomly all green or all grey
16:01<supermop>i don't understand how to do recoloring yet
16:02<andythenorth>some of the properties might be reserved, dunno
16:02<andythenorth>allocations in nfo can be straightforward, or not
16:02<Wolf01>Could I use 0x1E?
16:03<Wolf01>It's just a number, isn't it?
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16:03<andythenorth>I would just stick it on 0x1E yes
16:04<andythenorth>I was going to suggest same, was just checking nml code first
16:04<andythenorth>specific to roadtypes?
16:05<andythenorth>or also in tramtypes?
16:05<Wolf01>Only roads for now, maybe trams in future
16:06<Wolf01>Pushed, if you want to try
16:06<Wolf01>There is no weight considered, just put a value different than 0
16:06<andythenorth>will it need a newgrf?
16:07<Wolf01>If no town road is enabled it just fall back to normal road
16:07<andythenorth>so you need me to patch nml as well
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16:07<andythenorth>I won't get to that tonight :)
16:07<andythenorth>it's an easy patch
16:08<andythenorth>oh the NRT branch fails to compile for me :)
16:09<andythenorth>#include "core\random_func.hpp"
16:09<andythenorth>src/road.cpp:25:10: fatal error: 'core\random_func.hpp' file not found
16:09<andythenorth>#include "core\random_func.hpp"
16:09<andythenorth>is that a windows path slash?
16:09<andythenorth>goes the wrong way :P
16:10<Wolf01>Oh fuck
16:10<supermop>ok so i just do 'weight: 1'?
16:11<Wolf01>With weight I could just sort the available types by weight, then generate a value between 0 and max-weight, then cycle the types until it finds the first one with weight > random
16:11<andythenorth>seems fair
16:11<supermop>andythenorth: do you recolor using maps, or with some python magic?
16:11<andythenorth>both, depending on context
16:12<andythenorth>recolour maps are harder to use imho
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16:12<supermop>is it easy in nml? the doca are a little opaque to me
16:12<andythenorth>but python recolouring bloats the compile
16:12<andythenorth>it's not hard
16:12<supermop>particularly i want to recolor to non cc colors, like greys and browns
16:13<andythenorth>yeah, it's work to set up
16:13<andythenorth>frosch gave me the code for CC
16:13<supermop>and i don't know how from the docs to say 'purples become these 8 greys'
16:13<andythenorth>me neither
16:14<andythenorth>in principle it just maps palette index -> palette index
16:14<andythenorth>but there are some tricks to it
16:18<supermop>testing pipes and transformers is hard
16:18<supermop>have to get a pretty strong chain going to see them show up on my trams
16:19<supermop>and then im too distracted by playing my steeltown game to fix grf
16:20<supermop>so far my 'vehicles' are shipped in wooden crates
16:21<supermop>f i draw little cars i'll need recoloring there for sure
16:29<supermop>also drew both rolls and ignots for the metals
16:30<supermop>but really a mixed load of some copper sheet and some copper bars is pretty unlikely
16:33<Wolf01>I think it's better if I go to bed so I can get up tomorrow in time to go to work
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16:52<Thedarkb>Any ideas?
16:53<Thedarkb>It just segfaults before it starts.
17:19<debdog>I suppose you've installed libSDL by now?
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17:54<LordAro>Thedarkb: run it through gdb?
17:55<Thedarkb>debdog, LordAro bear with me, I broke my whole install doing something else.
17:55<LordAro>probably won't help :p
17:57<Thedarkb>I'm reinstalling right now.
17:57<Thedarkb>Would it help if I tried compiling it from source?
17:57<Thedarkb>I'm on a bit of a weird distro.
17:57<Thedarkb>I had a dd accident
17:57<Thedarkb>my partition table did not survive.
17:58*Thedarkb downloads gparted from the livecd
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18:07<Thedarkb>I obliterated my install, remember?
18:07<Thedarkb>I'm running TinyCore Linux and I'm trying to make an OpenTTD package but it won't cooperate.
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18:24<Thedarkb>I'm going to try compiling from the source.
18:28<LordAro>Thedarkb: oh dear
18:28<Thedarkb>Bad idea?
18:28<LordAro>(re dd)
18:28<LordAro>the generic binary *should* work
18:28<LordAro>i'd be interested in seeing why it's segfaulting
18:29<Thedarkb>I'll download both.
18:31<LordAro>at a complete guess, i'd say there's an issue with SDL, given how early it's breaking
18:31<Thedarkb>Will I just install every version of SDL in the package manager and hope for the best?
18:32<LordAro>someone should update it to sdl2 at some point
18:32<Thedarkb>There are a couple of outdated libs in use.
18:33<Thedarkb>gcc is 85% installed
18:33<Thedarkb>Yeah, I had 1.2 when it was crashing.
18:33<LordAro>icu & sdl are the only ones i'm aware of
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18:42<Thedarkb>OK, I'm getting SDL 1.2
18:43<Thedarkb>Installing gdb
18:43<Thedarkb>No debugging symbols found.
18:44<LordAro>not unexpected
18:45<LordAro>but would be interesting to see exactly where the segfault occurs
18:45<LordAro>(`run`, followed by `backtrace`)
18:48<Samu>could this get trunk'ed?
18:49<Samu>i hate to see rich ais bankrupting
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18:55<Samu>LordAro: your ai actually suffers from that
18:57<Samu>start him with 250k ops
18:57<Samu>soon it will trigger bankrupt warnings
18:57<Samu>if unlucky, it bankrupts with 1500 buses or so
19:02<ST2>that "Check Bankruptcy Before Infrastructure Costs" makes sense - no idea if actually influences other stuff farher ^^
19:03<Samu>it will give hoomans 1 more month at most
19:03<Samu>in the red
19:03<ST2>btw Samu: released server #0 yesterday :)
19:04<ST2>wasn't earlier because was off entire weekend - only came back sunday night ^^
19:05<Samu>let's see
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---Logclosed Tue Feb 20 00:00:15 2018