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#openttd IRC Logs for 2018-02-23

---Logopened Fri Feb 23 00:00:19 2018
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00:13-!-snail_UES_ is "Jacopo Coletto" on #openttd
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01:35<rahul>hi, anyone having trouble going to ?
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02:48<ToffeeYogurtPots>rahul: I'm having trouble too, not just you.
02:49<ToffeeYogurtPots>504 gateway time-out
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03:21<Arveen>same time-out for me too
03:21<Arveen>nginx rekt
03:30<LordAro>so it is
03:31<LordAro>TrueBrain: is down
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04:30<dihedral>good morning
04:33<Sacro> is NXDOMAIN
04:35<dihedral>human behaviour when a website is not functioning as expected is rather interesting
04:49<LordAro>Sacro: i was assuming TB could expand the abbreviation himself ;)
05:04<Sacro>Does TB still exist?
05:04<Sacro>Or is he a myth
05:04<Sacro>Also the number of people that expand the TTD is too damn high
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05:57<dihedral>Sacro, that was once - is that still the case=
06:00<Sacro>dihedral: hm?
06:00<dihedral>I recall people extending TTD a few years back - but is that still true today?
06:01<dihedral>a reply 50 minutes later :-S
06:01<Sacro>Oh, I think even Twitch does it
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06:15<Sacro> :P
06:15<Sacro>or whatever it is now
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06:25<@planetmaker>hm, is down
06:27<__ln__>totally unacceptable during business hours, how is anyone going to get any work done now
06:35<@planetmaker>that's the question
06:36<@planetmaker>bad thing: I have the power to reboot the whole physical server. But not the power to reboot the webserver VM which seems the only one being down :D
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07:05<Sacro>planetmaker: reboot all the things
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08:16<dihedral>planetmaker, sighup the webservices process :-P
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08:40<@planetmaker>dihedral, err-no-root
08:43<SpComb>kill -CONT $(pidof TrueBrain)
08:43<dihedral>kill TrueBrain??
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08:44<SpComb>you're intentionally misunderstanding unix terminology :(
08:44<dihedral>just trying to bring back some old sparks :-)
08:48<@planetmaker>something needs to re-ignite the coal trains ;)
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09:23<@planetmaker>yay, webserver alive again
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>it obviously says "CONTINUE to kill TrueBrain"
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10:08<LordAro>planetmaker: \o/
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11:00<Samu>my poor cat is dying :(
11:01<Samu>doctor said he got liquid in the lungs
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11:03<Samu>unsure if it is cancer
11:03<Samu>but he took some of the liquid for analyze
11:03<Samu>I'm sad
11:06<Samu>he's been losing weigth
11:18<dihedral>Samu, how old is your cat
11:19<Samu>not sure, but at least 16+
11:19<Samu>it was found on the street
11:24<Samu>the same cat that spammed chat a few days ago :(
11:35<Samu>my other cat, which is older, seems more healthy
11:36<Samu>there was a week he was sneezing blood, though, but it stopped doing that
11:38<Samu>they're both old, I know :(
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12:16<Samu>been looking my cats
12:17<Samu>had one in 1998, died in 2009
12:17<Samu>then 2 in 2003, kiko and tintim
12:17<Samu>both alive
12:17<Samu>another in 2099, alive
12:17<Samu>oops 2009
12:17<Samu>one other in 2010, alive
12:18<Samu>and one other which birth date is really unknown, but it's assumed somewhere in 2007, 2008
12:18<Samu>wasn't mine until 2013
12:19<Samu>5 cats
12:20<Samu>well, 6, one died already
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12:52<Samu> can't open this site :(
12:56<Samu>504 Gateway Time-out nginx/1.9.10
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13:19<LordAro>planetmaker: looks like the site went down again
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13:28<@peter1138>Time for...
13:28<@peter1138>Hmm, something in VR
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27969 trunk/src/lang/danish.txt (2018-02-23 19:45:38 +0100 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>danish: 22 changes by Knogle
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13:50<LordAro>frosch123: fix yo website
13:50<LordAro>also quak
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13:57<frosch123>LordAro: apparently it is due to some german teeny streamer
13:57<frosch123>("teeny" refering to the target group, not the streamer himself)
13:57<LordAro>oh huh, it's actually just being effectively ddos'd?
13:58<frosch123>no idea, but the last fix did only last 4 hours or so :)
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14:20<andythenorth>Friday is not a code day
14:27<Wolf01>I wanted to go to the pub but I'm too much tired :(
14:35<andythenorth>I am having coffee
14:35<andythenorth>breaking all rules, crazy
14:41<andythenorth>hmm, such ships
14:41<andythenorth>would anyone like to subscribe to Unsinkable Sam newsletter?
14:43<Wolf01>Newsletter maybe not, but I use a lot the RSS feeds
14:43<andythenorth>I have drawn 2 different ship hulls :P
14:43<andythenorth>very progress
14:44<andythenorth>they look almost like Squid
14:44<andythenorth>but the lengths are correct, and the lighting is somewhat fixed
14:47<andythenorth>I can make most of the set with 6 hulls, so eh
14:47<supermop_work>i drew some beer crate cargo sprites
14:47<andythenorth>I never bothered :)
14:47<andythenorth>beer in silver barrels ;P
14:48<supermop_work>andythenorth: that is also an option per switch
14:48<supermop_work>kegs vs cases of green bottles
14:48<supermop_work>could do wood barrels pre-1900
14:49<supermop_work>need some switch that guesses whether the BEER was picked up near a brewery or winery
14:49<supermop_work>RV sprite navel gazing will continue until town road nml time
14:51<supermop_work>i already made doors to see into box trailer while loading
14:51<supermop_work>and once i had cardboard boxes in stacks, might as well make stillages of bottles
14:52<supermop_work>recolor green glass to snow colors for milk
14:53<supermop_work>though usually the dairy farm doesn't send milk to the creamery already in bottles
14:57<TrueBrain>in case someone comes in yelling they cannot reach (over HTTP) .. I just blacklisted a single IP .. was polling his server < 5 seconds apart ... someone didnt get the memo about "fair use" and a 5 minute cache time .. :P
14:58<TrueBrain>s/his server/his server page/
14:58<LordAro>he awakes!
14:58<TrueBrain>some Java app
14:58<TrueBrain>don't care :P
14:58<LordAro>wait, what was it polling?
14:59<TrueBrain>the /server/SOME NUMBER page
14:59<LordAro>isn't one of the admin console things written in java?
14:59<TrueBrain>dunno .. UA is only Java_version
14:59<TrueBrain>people who write tools should learn to customize UA, so server owners can contact them :)
14:59<TrueBrain>owh well ..
14:59<TrueBrain>still no clue why Django is failing on us ..
14:59<LordAro>nah, just identify as Mozilla, all done
15:00<LordAro>that's all user agents do, right?
15:00<LordAro>TrueBrain: while you're here, when was the last time you thought about upgrading off wheezy?
15:01<TrueBrain>months ago; most systems run Jessie :P why?
15:01<LordAro>it pains me how old the wiki is, mostly :)
15:01<TrueBrain>nobody wants to maintain it .. what can I say? :P
15:02<TrueBrain>and mediawiki made upgrading a true pain in the ....
15:02<LordAro>that's not been my experience of it
15:02<LordAro>i did a similar upgrade at work a few months ago
15:02<TrueBrain>they keep changing configuration .. so I have to find out again how some stuff works ...
15:02<TrueBrain>and I hate figuring stuff out :P
15:02<TrueBrain>(LDAP integration mostly)
15:03<LordAro>as luck would have it, i had to do that as well ;)
15:03<TrueBrain>but mainly, I am totally puzzled why django stops responding ...
15:03<TrueBrain>the server is not stressed, everything is normal ...
15:03<LordAro>how odd
15:04<TrueBrain>it is only a single django instance .. and twice in 24h ..
15:04<TrueBrain>no weird URLs or something
15:05<LordAro>no stack traces anywhere?
15:05<TrueBrain>nothing crashed
15:05<LordAro>those are the fun ones
15:06<TrueBrain>all I see is that one worker stops responding .. a bit later the next ....
15:06<TrueBrain>no disks full or something
15:06<LordAro>(in case i didn't drop enough hints, i'm happy to do the wiki upgrade for you, should you be willing ;) )
15:07<TrueBrain>sadly, I have no easy way to give you selective access like that
15:08<TrueBrain>so I will have to check how we are going to arrange that
15:08<LordAro>np :p
15:08<Wolf01>Just give him full access ;)
15:08<+glx>money + first child as guarantee :)
15:09<LordAro>i don't have any significant experience with django so i can't help you there, i'm afraid
15:10<TrueBrain>60% uses SSL these days on
15:11<TrueBrain>50/50 based on IP
15:11<Wolf01>What do one needs to be the next TB? :P
15:12<TrueBrain>10% is IPv6
15:12<TrueBrain>just some random stats
15:12<LordAro>why not redirect everything to https?
15:12<TrueBrain>we considered it .. a few pages already are
15:13<TrueBrain>but 30+% doesn't use SSL .. HTST is on .. so .. are those people who cant do SSL?
15:14<LordAro>weird java applications? :p
15:14<frosch123>ie4 users?
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15:14<TrueBrain>wow .... a VERY low amount of users use HTTP/2.0
15:15<TrueBrain>that is not what I epxected
15:15<TrueBrain>guess the server needs some updating for proper support or something
15:15<LordAro>i just added a couple
15:16<TrueBrain>my Chrome doesn't pick up on the HTTP/2.0
15:16<TrueBrain>still no clue what django has been doing ... lets hope it is not repeating itself again :D
15:17<TrueBrain>anyway, server maintaince .. how ever I look at it, the best way forward is to reinstall some stuff
15:17<TrueBrain>we also have a CF upgrade which is "almost done"
15:17<TrueBrain>and badly needed
15:17<LordAro>hmm yeah, my chrome doesn't either
15:17<LordAro>curl does it fine though
15:17<TrueBrain>most likely nginx is a bit too old for it to work properly
15:18<LordAro>1.9.10 isn't *that* old...
15:18<TrueBrain>no, but http/2 got some love
15:18<TrueBrain>FlySpray should be replaced with something that is maintained
15:19<TrueBrain>I have been trying to push the devs towards git, and use GitHub as main repo :P No clue where that conversation ended :)
15:19<LordAro>probably the last time the website fell over :p
15:19<LordAro>hey, flyspray had a release in octover
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15:20<TrueBrain>yeah .........
15:20<TrueBrain>I was hoping frosch123 and co agrees on GitHub, as then we have both an issue tracker and source-code manager :P
15:20<frosch123>TrueBrain: i moved half of my obsolete branches to github
15:20<frosch123>i am fine with code on github
15:21<TrueBrain>also as main?
15:21<frosch123>but when flyspray is shut down i want a static copy of the closed bugs
15:21<TrueBrain>FS doesnt need to shut down, as far as I care .. just not actively used :D
15:21<frosch123>why i could ofc wget myself :p
15:22<LordAro>still got the issue of the CI, but presumably bamboo can be pointed at github
15:22<LordAro>of course it can, it already is
15:22<TrueBrain>will be fine :)
15:22<TrueBrain>but it also means you can use those CIs out there that do other things than compile code :P
15:22<LordAro>when google code shut down, their github importer also transferred closed issues, could look at doing something like that as well
15:23<TrueBrain>either way, LDAP also needs a reinstall, as it is configured wrong to work smoothly these days with modern Debians
15:23<TrueBrain>we have musad + ottd_content + BaNaNaS ... which are running something I dont dare to speak of
15:23<TrueBrain>main website ..
15:24<TrueBrain>guess I should make a nice list :)
15:24<TrueBrain>frosch123: if (IF!) we would be to move to GitHub, would there be any need to keep an SVN mirror and/or HG mirror?
15:24<TrueBrain>or is that more for people who want to use that, to figure out?
15:24<LordAro>pretty sure github itself still has a svn mirror
15:24<LordAro>*fairly* sure that wasn't just an april fool
15:24*LordAro checks
15:25<frosch123>TrueBrain: i don't think anyone would miss svn, albert may be the last one to use hg
15:25<frosch123>but iirc albert also uses git at work
15:25<TrueBrain>so that is good ... using PRs as workflow also would really benefit the project
15:26<TrueBrain>as I can see currently, BaNaNaS is the biggest one to replace
15:26<frosch123>i would hope for more compiled experimental versions
15:26<TrueBrain>with git it becomes a lot easier
15:27<TrueBrain>lot of CI stuff can just compile all branches of a certain type
15:27<TrueBrain>without configuration
15:27<LordAro>yup, github svn still works
15:27<LordAro>which is neat, in its own weird way
15:27<TrueBrain>so anyone who can create a new branch, can create an experimental version
15:27<TrueBrain>LordAro: it is
15:27<TrueBrain>I once rewrote the OpenTTD website into Angular .. to realise no tools could make non-javascript stuff from that
15:27<TrueBrain>but these days we do have those tools
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15:28<TrueBrain>worth looking into I guess
15:28<andythenorth>I go afk for 10 mins
15:28<andythenorth>and all this happens :P
15:28<andythenorth>nothing for months
15:28<TrueBrain>10 minutes? In what timezone ARE YOU?!
15:28<andythenorth>then I miss all fun
15:28<LordAro>might want to think about where build configuration is stored
15:28<TrueBrain>what build-configuration you refer to?
15:28<LordAro>well, CI config or build config itself, really
15:28<andythenorth>I am in the TZ where 3 mins = 1 min UTC
15:28<andythenorth>it really fucks with you
15:28<TrueBrain>normally you put that in git
15:28-!-beno is now known as Thedarkb
15:28<LordAro>if you open it up to jonny randomer, it has the potential for abuse via PRs
15:29<andythenorth>imagine how much worse TZ would be if there were relative units
15:29<LordAro>unless properly sandboxed, of course
15:29<TrueBrain>no no, you got me wrong there :) Only people we allow can create branches ;)
15:29<TrueBrain>but yes, the new CF we (me and frosch123) months ago nearly finished (except for Windows :@), uses Docker
15:29<TrueBrain>so "sandboxed"
15:29<TrueBrain>possibly run CoreOS under it for some extra security, I guess
15:30<TrueBrain>but branch creation always needs some form of restriction
15:30<TrueBrain>CPU time is too expensive
15:30<andythenorth>we (work) use jenkins CI and limit branches built
15:30<andythenorth>because AWS time costs money
15:31<LordAro>probably want to consider some sort of bot that can be triggered to build things then
15:31<TrueBrain>that is another approach
15:31<LordAro>something similar to how Rust does it
15:31<TrueBrain>just any github fork
15:31<TrueBrain>can the bot be on Discord? :P
15:32<andythenorth>can you shout at it then?
15:32<andythenorth>'stupid bot, stop building'
15:32<LordAro>i was thinking via github comments :p
15:32<TrueBrain>funny enough, didnt think about that one
15:32<TrueBrain>as that can be pretty cool
15:32<TrueBrain>then you don't even need branches
15:33<LordAro> bors is the bot
15:34<andythenorth>github has worked fine for NotRoadTypes, for the record
15:34<TrueBrain>I really like the idea that a dev can leave in a PR something so a binary is created for anyone to download
15:35<TrueBrain>frosch123: what do you think?
15:36<LordAro>artifacts provided by the CI would work for that
15:36<TrueBrain>rust really went overbored there I see
15:36<LordAro>they did a bit
15:36<frosch123>as i see it, there is noone who wants to review stuff. so there are two ways to continue: either drop everything into trunk and let it die, or compile like 10 custom versions and offer them for download
15:37<LordAro>but hey, it seems to work for them
15:37<LordAro>i think there's several people who want to review stuff
15:37<frosch123>i like the way that makes stable ottd only one version of many
15:38<LordAro>there's not enough people who are *allowed* to review stuff
15:38<TrueBrain>frosch123: what do you mean?
15:38<frosch123>LordAro: the only one who was interested in supporting stuff in the past year got under a car
15:38<TrueBrain>who got under a car?
15:39<frosch123>adf88 is gone for 6 months from one day to another on all platforms
15:39<TrueBrain>meh :(
15:39<andythenorth>the only way reviewers learn
15:39<andythenorth>is by shipping bugs to production
15:39<andythenorth>and having to wear a brown bag
15:39<frosch123>either he's in jail for protesting against polish government or got under a car
15:40<frosch123>so, i suggest the gcc way
15:40<frosch123>keep ottd stable as it is, add a bunch of competing branches, and if they make it, let them replace stable
15:41<TrueBrain>or what-ever happens after that, but I fully agree that making it easier to build/publish versions helps
15:41<andythenorth>there's probably some evolutionary metaphor :P
15:41<TrueBrain>so lets make that the focus point :)
15:41<andythenorth>more of it is other people's problem? o_O
15:41<TrueBrain>it still makes me laugh that we have more multiplayer server than clients playing :D
15:42<TrueBrain>so, if we move the main code to GitHub, it means we have to create tooling around GitHub to make everything shiny
15:42<frosch123>well, if you find a method to make idle ottd servers host a distributed compile farm :p
15:42<andythenorth>also mine crypt
15:42<TrueBrain>honestly, we have plenty of CPU time for OpenTTD and all its patches
15:42<andythenorth>while we're there
15:43<andythenorth>did we include a crypto AI yet?
15:43<TrueBrain>8 cores are sitting idling, most of the time
15:43<TrueBrain>andythenorth: no, we are not evil
15:43<andythenorth>we aren't
15:43<andythenorth>some of us might be
15:43<TrueBrain>either way, most stuff OpenTTD does (on website etc) with VCS, is done via a svn:// link .. so that is easy to move
15:44<TrueBrain>any plans for BaNaNaS?
15:44<andythenorth>there ought to be
15:44<frosch123>bananans will have to survive for a few years more :)
15:44<TrueBrain>the shitty part is, it is running on a heavily modified Django 1.2 ..
15:45<frosch123>is it? it ran fine on some django 1.6
15:45<TrueBrain>on Debian Etch ..
15:45<LordAro>oh no
15:45<TrueBrain>if I login to that server, spiders come out
15:45<frosch123>or whatevery version was in debian stable in 2012
15:46<TrueBrain>either way .. I guess any progress is progress :P
15:46<TrueBrain>I just read that LordAro offered to help out with any migration
15:46<TrueBrain>so we mainly have to experiment a bit what works for us
15:46<LordAro>well i did specify the wiki, but... :p
15:47<frosch123>LordAro: if you offer a hand, you will have to give an arm
15:47<TrueBrain>I might need to upgrade this machine too :P
15:48<LordAro>frosch123: ;)
15:48<TrueBrain>I just ignore random words LordAro writes
15:48<TrueBrain>a lot easier
15:48<TrueBrain>I see there are scripts that import FlySpray into GitHub :P
15:48<TrueBrain>just who becomes the author, I wonder :P
15:49<LordAro>the github bot someone's going to set up, right? :p
15:49<TrueBrain>we (or rather: I) have an OpenTTD user on github
15:49<TrueBrain>so that is not really difficult
15:50<LordAro>wait, is a user rather than an organisation?
15:50<TrueBrain>all commits are pushed via OpenTTD
15:50<andythenorth>what's even in FS now
15:50*andythenorth looks
15:50<TrueBrain>which annoys some people that follow me, as it is linked to my account
15:50<TrueBrain>and people keep seeing that I did it :P
15:51<LordAro>might want to do a ..."proper" reimport
15:51<TrueBrain>I am tempted to write a script that imports all (open and closed) bugs from OpenTTD to GitHub, and add a redirect to OpenTTD pointing to the right ticket :P
15:51<TrueBrain>current import is proper?
15:52<TrueBrain>frosch123: adf88 wasnt even added to the readme? I think the dev status is what pissed him off :P
15:53<TrueBrain>omg, GitHub tells me I only did 251 commits for OpenTTD .. LIES!
15:54<andythenorth>once we've done openttd, can we knock off coop? :P
15:54<LordAro>TrueBrain: oh, i think i misunderstood
15:54<LordAro>but sounds like some extra author rewriting could be done ;)
15:54<TrueBrain>how again can you link your account to a username .. hmm
15:54<TrueBrain>what needs rewriting?
15:54<LordAro>assuming git svn, there's a --author-file, i think
15:55<LordAro>depends what the script is doing
15:55<TrueBrain>postfix with
15:55<TrueBrain>all devs have access to that account
15:56<LordAro>ah right
15:56<LordAro>well michi_cc should add that email to his github then ;)
15:56<TrueBrain>more people do :)
15:57<frosch123>mine is linked
15:57<TrueBrain>let me see if it now linked all my commits correctly ...
15:57<frosch123>andythenorth: i care more about the fs tasks that are linked from commit messages
15:57<TrueBrain>important things first :P
15:57<andythenorth>frosch123: fair
15:58<andythenorth>we could leave something to rewrite those
15:58<TrueBrain>I am happy we did FS# as syntax :)
15:58<TrueBrain>but we can make that really pretty :)
15:58<TrueBrain>not even 10k bugs
15:58<frosch123>andythenorth: all open tasks can be summarized to "replace icu" and stuff that does not matter :p
15:58<TrueBrain>and make the project look good, having 10k bugs, of which most are closed :P
15:59<andythenorth>frosch123: :o you don't care that Russian exchange rate is wrong
15:59<andythenorth>I am shocked
15:59<LordAro>pretty sure if you import all open & closed bugs, the "FS#number" will auto link
16:00<TrueBrain>how could it?
16:00<frosch123>andythenorth: it should be the exchange rate from 1995, but anyway, all xussr people would complain if they were changed
16:00<TrueBrain>948 commits .. much better .. still not what I expected :P
16:00<LordAro>TrueBrain: well the issue numbers would be the same :p
16:00<TrueBrain>yeah ... that would be the other way to go about this
16:00<TrueBrain>open/close any holes (we have a few)
16:01<TrueBrain>honestly, might be the cherry on top
16:04<TrueBrain>that does need a reset I think, as I believe someone made some PRs :P
16:04<TrueBrain>I wont name people (LORDARO)
16:05<TrueBrain>#1 and #2 bugs are silly anyway
16:05<TrueBrain>so that can be forgiven :P
16:06<TrueBrain>frosch123: I will get back to you how I see this working; then we can find people for it, and make a timeline
16:07<TrueBrain>and I will monitor the website a bit for the rest of the night, but please email if something is wrong .. email I read :)
16:20<LordAro>ah, nothing's actually happening?
16:20<LordAro>goodo, i shall KSP instead :)
16:22<Samu>Wormnest: nonocab v5 is still running
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16:22<Samu>2044, 7 years till 2051
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16:48<Samu>6 years
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17:03<Wormnest>Good to hear Samu
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17:42<Samu>4 years
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18:37<Samu>3 years
18:52<@planetmaker>wow, lots of activity suddenly :D
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19:06<Samu>2 years
19:10<Eddi|zuHause>that only happens when things break :p
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19:19<Samu>last year
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22:37<Gustavo6046>Tunnels are costly. Is there no cheap way to get past a mountain without penalizing the vehicular speed??
22:37<Gustavo6046>Sometimes going around isn't a simple solution.
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---Logclosed Sat Feb 24 00:00:20 2018